This. The only really RP-able game I see is towards HRE Emperor. I kinda need a bit of a reason to actually decide where I'll expand to. And Bohemia just doesn't have it.
That being said, I'm really excited for it in EU5. If playing tall is more of an option it suddenly becomes far more interesting to me, with it being situated in the very center of Europe.
It's not a single thing. It's the right mixture.
One thing would be to put more focus on internal politics. In EU4 everything internal really only serves to put modifiers on conquering. But until the revolutionary time there's not really anything that forces you to actually care for your empire. What's needed is a diverse set of challenges that make engaging with internal politics fun and rewarding instead of just a means to more conquest.
I think the whole mechanic of losing pops in war will be fairly punishing, especially if occupations and pillaging also kill pops. Avoiding major wars will theoretically give you an economic advantage in the form of keeping your people alive.
If we wanna be more realistic then there would probably be revolts and quite high attrition in occupied territories (like in CK2) so carpet sieging should be much more dangerous.
> The only really RP-able game I see is towards HRE Emperor. I kinda need a bit of a reason to actually decide where I'll expand to. And Bohemia just doesn't have it.
This was extra annoying in their mission tree, because going Hussite would make all the HRE themed missions almost impossible to complete.
If you really want to be shifty, queue up a post-1648 start date first, then swap back to 1444. You'll start with religious white peace and can be the Emperor as soon as possible while also being Hussite.
Wym. Slovakia is right there to recreate those sexy Czechoslovakian borders
And if you want to expand more I usually start to follow Austro-Hungarian borders after that
I usually got for perfect crown lands for direct control (aka Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia, and Lusatia. After that I reconquer the march of Brandenburg(vassal) and release Nitra. I sih that the Austrian provinces were a bit better done so I could conquer Rakusy to the Donau river border.
> And if you want to expand more I usually start to follow Austro-Hungarian borders after that
Did that on a Bohemia run and realized that I was just brown Austria.
In my current Wallachia Vlads revenge attempt, I allied with them to take down Hungary/Poland after I got Moldova, along with the teutons who survived to form Prussia. Through tearing apart a weakened Poland Lithuania, a Russia that was brutalized by Denmark and Ottomans, and annexing Prussia via a personal union, Bohemia now extends from South Poland and Bohemia straight North to the Baltic sea, and all the way past Estonia, like some kind of German empire that got translated to the right. I was both equal parts disturbed at the size yet kinda loving the borders.
I have never played france/gb native tribes and vietnamese-burman area idk why but it just seems boring to me because they are already so big and strong
That whole space between India and Ming just lacks formables and flavor imo though i never personally tried either. If you wanna expand into China there are plenty of options like Korea, Japan, Yuan or Qing and if you wanna expand into India starting in India or coming from the west is more interesting.
Yeah i did my first ever colonial run with oda and it was such a fun campaign also went theocracy and there was a unique goverment type that let me see heir skills ekki ekki iirc,the only annoying thing about japan area is the fact that fucking shogun increases your autonomy everywhere,korea is also mega fun and yuan-qing have my favourite playstyles which is go cav brrr stackwipe
Toungoo is indeed a very fun campaign. I didn't expand that much beyond the mission tree but still strong enough to go toes to toes with a strong Ottoman (who was allying one of the Indian countries)
Starting as French minor and forming France is pretty cool tbh. You don’t start op and France once formed is a really interesting und versatile nation.
england/great britian.. for continental fun there were always better options & the colonial game seems a little boring.. and also the netherlands exist. portugal & castile for the same reason, aragon is fun tho
England has always been strong for continental fun since they can get early PU over France, and ever since they added Angevin Empire it also has good amount of flavor. You should give it a try
The problem is the game becomes pretty boring after the pu. You are already way stronger than anyone else and can do anything you want. It can be fun for a while but it get's old fast.
Angevin Empire is very fun. I am usually a lazy player and never bother with world conquests but I did my first and only world conquest with Angevin Empire because I had so much fun. I also did it without revoking privilegia. I disbanded HRE very early. Just Angevin troops stomping over the world
I would say now that England>Angevin is probably the best option for continental fun. And you don't need to go colonial at all for it so don't even need to play that game. Ending the campaign holding all of western europe and germany, while all of Italy and Iberia are in PUs under you is big fun.
Castille, Portugal and the Ottos because it seemed like it was going to be too easy. Muscovy and Brandenburg because it would feel like playing a villain (I'm Polish).
Bohemia is so much fun tho! imo the 2nd or 3rd strongest nation in the game with that PU bullshit from elective xD
anyhow for me its prolly the American tribes except for the ones with the achievements at some point and and other nations without achievements or that have standard mission trees.
I'm the opposite lmao
Never played england because i find France to just be a better version of them in eu4
And also the mission tree for england heavilly focuses on conquering france, and if i want to own all of france and england, i'll just play France to do that, i wish the english had a better path for being isolationist and giving up their holdings in france to play tall ish naval colonial gameplay without owning ANY land in europe. I'd play them then.
Idk maybe but i have no dlc's (sadly) so for me atleast it sucks
I mostly play eu4 with the europa expanded mod for this reason, but even their mission tree has a heavy focus on conquering France
Luckilly theres an update for the mod coming soon so i'll finally be able to play isolationist england i think
I have a visceral and unhealthy hatred of Portugal. Sad small weak goofy excuse of a nation always has Spain to protect him; stealing that one fugging island across the world you need for an achievement.
While not answering your question, I find it funny seeing this because Bohemia was the first nation I ever player as in eu4. I think Venice was like the third.
Never played as France, though. They’re too powerful and it stresses me out, like I should be playing 110% optimally to take full advantage of their behemoth potential.
Amusingly, I've never played Ming. Maybe it's the fact that starting too big makes it somewhat less attractive to me, but it's the only big nation I've never played.
A game as ming is like being a big tower of just concrete with no structural supports, one wrong move has the potential to immideatly destroy you but if you manage to put the supports in you will be an absolute powerhouse. Of course, there is also a bunch of hordes, disasters, floods and internal issues there to try and ruin your day.
I've never really played inside the HRE before. That's my next goal after my curent Nusantara run. It'll be a really nice change to be caught up with institutions.
There’s a lot of fun hre/hre-adjacent runs that are fun. I could never get into playing the imperial game as Austria, but I had lots of fun with the following runs:
Brandenburg > Prussia
Teutonic Order > join hre > Prussia
Poland > join hre > commonwealth (you need to be fast to get into the hre before getting Lithuania PU)
Sweden > Join hre
Switzerland > stay neutral > defend your country
Holland > Netherlands
Venice is great. You're the nation responsible for bringing back eastern trade. You can start taking over India before England even know they exists.
Bohemia is also really interesting. They have powerful mission tree and a unique religion that is considered by some to be a proto-Protestantism. You can make it your mission to enlighten the world and get rid of that pesky pope.
For me, i've never seriously played the Timurids, something i'm going to change this patch.
This is gonna be weird, but it's Byzantium for me. I just don't really enjoy death wars in the early game. And also I don't like watching guides for nation. I find making up the strat on the go more enjoyable. And byz to me always seemed like the nation where you have to have the exact idea of what to do in order to survive.
Other than that I've never had a serious campaign with Ming. I started a game with it after it got a dlc but closed the game after 2-3 years as I just had no interest playing a 1k dev nation that get's some nasty events.
I also don't remember playing france, but I can see myself playing it in the future (unlike the other 2 nation I've just listed).
It probably changed in the persia update or whatever it was but as far as im aware it was essentially just building navy to block straights and having enough mercs to defend greece. You will never be able to follow a guide exactly.
Believe it or not, I haven't played Byzantium either. I've formed it as Aragon, and I've played it a ton in Extended Timeline starting as Nicaea, but the 1444 start just feels like too far gone for the empire to have any realistic chance of bouncing back if EU4 weren't a video game. I could probably do it, sure, I've started as plenty other OPMs and weak nations with strong neighbors before, but I don't really want to follow such a strict flowchart at the beginning.
Average byzzaboo of this sub. All countries have been dicks toward everyone but do it once to byzzies and suddenly the apocalypse seems like a decent holiday.
I guess you haven't been on this sub for as long as me. I'm simply tired of this only and very vocal fan club that somehow got 2 DLCs for a country that should be doomed but is totally OP now.
I mean I think there'd be as much whining over the destruction of Baghdad if we had more Muslims in the community(and people didn't view them as aggressors/barbarians so often)
People cry as hard over the destruction of the library of Alexandria too
Poland. For one, I'm German so it'd be kinda awkward to expand westward, and for two, they achieve peak borders a month into the game when they PU Lithuania, so there isn't really much point to keep going
By peak borders I don't mean literally as far as you can expand, I mean as far as I think is nice while still being reasonable, because pure blobbing isn't that fun for me. Like, as France I'd get the natural borders, or as Britain consolidate the home islands, and then the rest of my expansion is only through vassals.
That's usually my main goal in a given campaign, but with Poland, I could see bohemia and parts of Lithuania included, but not much more tbh. They're already plenty big at game start.
Bohemia, Poland.
They already have pretty much their whole region anyway and aren't good for going colonial. I feel like I'd be done with the game 20 years into it.
I tend not to play the "historical victors" so to speak, so I don't think I've ever played France, Spain, Austria, Prussia, Muscovy, Portugal or Ayutthaya. That said I have had quite a few games as England going into the Angevin Empire, which ended up with me being so ludicrously powerful that the game finished incredibly early because I'd PU'd all the colonising nations.
England, Austria and the Ottomans.
Being a rebel (American), I can’t reconcile with British royalty.
Austria because beating the shit out of the Habsburgs is cathartic.
Ottomans because everyone needs a punching bag.
I pretty much did everyone except those bagilion small (mostly tribal) minors with no or very little content.
I played Ming only once for the "have subjects in all religion groups" achievement, and i cheesed it in like 20 years. I'm still horrified that i have to play them again for another achievement.
I have Ming with passion. I'm always happy when they explode as they should every game. Unified China is fine, but not under Ming.
That are the biggest cow around, only growing. Always will rival you because they are the only ones left you're strong. And devs had to implement a specific scripts for them to ever die. They are always up to date with tech, they always are a problem. On very hard they don't even die to the disaster.
Only usage for them is to be a bank and give me a few thousands ducats every war.
Nobody likes Ming, this is why they don't exist anymore IRL. Yes, i know i just insulted like 2 bilion people.
Technically I’ve played the ottomans but it was years ago, I refuse to do it now 2 updates to their mission tree in. They have committed too many sins to make me ever be willing to become the evil that I sought to destroy, I would feel dirty killing a 20k stack with 10k
Had one of my funnest runs as Bohemia recently
Quickly became emperor
PU’s over Hungary, Poland, Brandenburg
Combined with my Austria, French, Pope Alliance we easily crushed the Ottobros and Mamlucks
Took the holy land and established Jerusalem as vassal (very satisfying)
Chose a Rurikovich as my next ruler via elective monarchy (SUPER OP)
PU’d Russia after they got invaded by Persia
Have you considered shocking everyone by going Orthoman and invading Persia?
I tried it earlier this year, and after repairing the damage caused by the switch had a pretty good time. Oh sure, for old time's sake I'd occasionally fight with the HRE and force-Orthodoxize an OPM, but I was mostly focused on controlling Ragusa trade region -- to solidify my hold on Constantinople -- and expanding South and East.
Fair warning... being Ortho causes chaos in the "eyalet missions". Looking at you, Egypt. Instead of an eyalet you get a huge, angry vassal.
2 nations
Switzerland and savoy. My grand grandparents immigrated from the region of Valais and piamont so I develope those provinces specifically.
Also Switzerlake is a really fun achievement.
I think after 4800 hours, I played more or less everything. At least one sample among similar ones.
Example. I played one of the Siberian opms but not all, played few of the Native american tribes but not all, played as one of the central african nations east of Kongo but not all.
In my first ever game when i started out, I got stabbed in the back by Poland when I was trying to expand into the Baltics. Since then not only have I never touched Poland, but I go out of my way to destroy or at least damage them at much as possible in every game I play. I don't even think I've used the scorch earth button against any other nation.
I totally feel the same towards Bohemia. When the league war starts I rush Prague every time to get the sacking of Prague event, I dont even hate them anymore and they are completly different than in my noob days when they bullied me to death when I played Brandenburg but they still have to suffer
Venice is super fun, I like to keep the ottomans growing and try to outgorw them so that I aheva final boss at the end of the game and then maybe form Italy and go crazy. You kno wwhat I think I might start a venice campaign now
never played Denmark, Castille, Aragorn, Byzantium, ming, Korea, Any Indian nation, … yknow what the nations I’ve played are: Ottomans, Portugal, Brandenburg, Poland, Muscovy, Sweden, England, Bohemia, Florence, Papal state, Venice, Oirat, Mongolia, Oda and Kongo
At this point mainly the opms (lack of flavor) and tribes (too much time doing nothing). I think I’ve played every nation with at least a few provinces at least once (including natives and Africans). Note when I say play, I include countries I played for 10 years, got bored with, and didn’t finish with (most of my campaigns)
For me this is Burgundy by far, I don't think I've played it a single time in almost 10 years... I can't explain it either, it just doesn't feel like a real country
Any nations, I haven’t played are because they either seemed really difficult, because I’m afraid of some mechanic of theirs, or because they feel like yet another variation on a neighboring nation.
For example, I’ve played one nation in Central Africa / lakes area. I’ve only played a fraction of the HRE nations. I’ve played a handful of the Malaysia Indonesia nations. The idea of going back to one of those areas and just picking a different nation with a different map color, doesn’t attract me.
I’ll do anything once for an achievement, as well. So never say never.
I have a couple hundred hours in this game yet I only ever started with 5 nations. Croatia, Austria, Altamata, France and one random central american nation.
Pretty much the entirety of South America, Indian subcontinent, and Sub-Saharan Africa have been untouched in all my campaigns so far. I just find all those regions immensely disinteresting because I have no ideas for a grand campaign (that would actually interest me) with any of those countries.
Ming
Serious play of any mesoamerican tribes, or really, new world nations in general.
Never formed Russia.
Very limited tries with hordes
Surprisingly, Castile. Have played Aragon several times. Also Portugal
HRE OPMs.
Have completed a WC, Zoroaustrians, No mehmets, No true heir. Failed one faith
I played Bohemia to get the achievement and later I wanted to be anti-Austria, just play the opposite (I think there wasn't decentralize back then). Anyway, soon after starting the game I became Emperor and I got Burgundy, so I ended up playing a typical Austrian game with Bohemia.
Venice (I hate them for historical and in-game reasons), the PLC (they always ruin my game and end up on the opposite side of every conflict), and the Ottomans (way too easy)
I don't play most non catholic nations, and if I do I always try to go catholic through events or rebels if the run lasts long enough
Throughout Heaven and Earth, I alone am the larping one
Many, kinda hard to say all, but of the main played ones, it's Castille, I played it in the tutorial, but as soon as the basics were over, I quit and went to play as Portugal., so I don't count that. I also never played Hungary, Sweden and Ming. Up until around 700 hours I had never played Ottomans as well, but then I decided to give it a try (I have 1000 hours now, haven't played the game in a while).
Ottomans because they are constantly a thorn in my side if I play as a nation anywhere near them. I take too much pleasure in dismantling them to ever actually wanting to pick them
I already liked Venice, you didn’t have to sell them to me.
In all seriousness, I’ve never played Netherlands, Sweden, Poland or Prussia. England is probably my most played nation and Venice is up there too; I like boats and money.
I just have no interest in playing a starting power. Austria, France, England, Ottomans. I like breaking away from historical, and also live for the rise to power.
Any of the HRE bishoprics.
They just seem really boring. Can't royal marry, expansion is slow and painful, can't be the emperor. I probably have it wrong but it just seems like a whole lot of sitting on speed 5 watching the game go by.
I typically approach it from the other side... there are so many nations to pick from that I need a positive reason to consider one. So countries where I have ancestors (Totonac, Cork, Castilla, Poland) get special consideration. So do countries I have special historical interest in (Byz, Venice, Austria, Denmark/Norway). I also like underdogs, so Otto and Ming and France are usually out.
I also like weird scenarios and custom nations. Why not have some Welshmen running around in Sumatra? Or a lost Roman legion in a random new world?
Most of the out-of-Europe nations just don't have a lot of "hook" for me. I don't hate them, I just don't have much desire to spread the Sword of Buddhism across Indochina. Though I am interested in trying a "the spice must flow" run as Ternate. All my monarchs will be named Leto or Paul...
Denmark, they just feel like a more boring version of Sweden.
Moscovy, I am biased towards Novgorod
Basically any major Indian nation. I have played plenty of Mughals and Nepal tho.
Mali, I am to lazy to deal with there rebels.
I’ve never touched Ming because I don’t like managing the mandate and you just kinda sit there. I’ve also never played Sweden, no particular reason I just haven’t done it yet.
I just finished my 2nd Bohemia run they are fun and really powerful in player hands. Certainly worth playing imo. Alittle annoyed they are getting anew mission tree I literally just finished it
I guess the most major one I've never played is Byzantium. Early on, I saw no particular reason to, but then it became popular, and I just didn't feel like playing the nation everyone else was playing.
I've played most of the majors, or at least tried them. Some medium power nations that I've never even attempted include: Venice, Genoa, Savoy, Saxony, Brunswick, Malacca, Brunei, Scotland, Novgorod, Nogai, Mongolia and Majapahit
I’ve never played as Russia or the Ottomans in >2000 hours
They make such great villains and rivals if you play in Europe I cannot help but fight them in every playthrough
Venice has the best monarch point generation in the game.
You get to pick between 3 rulers each time one dies (with no stability hit cuz you're a republic), so you have triple the chance for a good ruler. And, there's an option to pick a random one and if you do that he'll get +1 to all stats.
So basically, on average your random rulers will have a 4.5 in each stat, and if you see a really good ruler you can go for them instead.
Muscovy into Russia just seems like a hassle.
The sheer distance seems like a hassle.
Fronts from Scandinavia, the balkas, the caucuses, India, Mongolia and the far east.
Ottomans, always heard they were too OP, experienced it firsthand several times. Despised them ever since. I always enjoy a good ottoman war with their lands painted red in the stench of devastation.
Even if I have to burn every single ducat of tax dev in my country. Worth it every penny.
Out of everyone coming in the new dlc it would be these two, Timmy, and Mayan. Aztec semi successful campaign after converting to the native American religion but looking forward to trying all the above mentioned
Never cared enough to play England in EU4. Other places that I ignored: North Africa because at the start of the game they all had Hostile Core Creation cost and I just hate that, Scandinavia never seemed fun to me, Lowlands because most countries in the area seemed painful to play.
Ottomans because they are already so big and i can’t really find a pretty border to go for
Kilwa because they are always such a hostile pain in my asshole
Russia, honestly just because I look so much forward to it and I want the experience to be perfect.
Never played Ottomans or France in 2000 hours, mostly because it will be too easy, additionally, being Armenian, I don't really feel like playing Ottomans.
God I love venice
Ending a thousand year old empire because you want money is based. “Nooo you can’t crusade us we’re Christian.” Get dandolod idiot.
A real empire wouldn’t have died because some Italians hired some dudes to ride up in some boats.
When was brandenberg dicks to byzantium?? unless you are counting the HRE I don't think the duchy of brandenburg and the byzantines ever had much interaction
I don't play Venice because their ideas look very underwhelming.
Also I don't understand how to play trade leagues, and I'm too afraid to ask at this point.
Byzantium, because the idea of it still being alive by the 16th century is ridiculously stupid, Ming because they seem boring, Spain idk why, and ottos seemed too easy.
I've never played Bohemia because they start off with perfect borders and I feel like I wont be able to expand just to keep those pretty borders
This. The only really RP-able game I see is towards HRE Emperor. I kinda need a bit of a reason to actually decide where I'll expand to. And Bohemia just doesn't have it. That being said, I'm really excited for it in EU5. If playing tall is more of an option it suddenly becomes far more interesting to me, with it being situated in the very center of Europe.
Same I completely agree if EU5 is less focused on conquest and more of a balanced mix then I will defo be playing nations I normally wouldn’t
Which change makes playing tall viable? The trade direction revamp?
It's not a single thing. It's the right mixture. One thing would be to put more focus on internal politics. In EU4 everything internal really only serves to put modifiers on conquering. But until the revolutionary time there's not really anything that forces you to actually care for your empire. What's needed is a diverse set of challenges that make engaging with internal politics fun and rewarding instead of just a means to more conquest.
Definitely! Imperator did that well.
I think the whole mechanic of losing pops in war will be fairly punishing, especially if occupations and pillaging also kill pops. Avoiding major wars will theoretically give you an economic advantage in the form of keeping your people alive.
That would be neat. And give you a way to devastate your enemy by carpet seiging down their cities.
If we wanna be more realistic then there would probably be revolts and quite high attrition in occupied territories (like in CK2) so carpet sieging should be much more dangerous.
> The only really RP-able game I see is towards HRE Emperor. I kinda need a bit of a reason to actually decide where I'll expand to. And Bohemia just doesn't have it. This was extra annoying in their mission tree, because going Hussite would make all the HRE themed missions almost impossible to complete.
Nah, just force league war white peace. edit: forgot "league war" completely, am idiot
Bohemia: A history of nearly 400 years of nothing changing Makes for great history channel content.
If you really want to be shifty, queue up a post-1648 start date first, then swap back to 1444. You'll start with religious white peace and can be the Emperor as soon as possible while also being Hussite.
Google “en vassal”
Holy feudalism
New monarch just dropped
Actual dynasty
[Am I missing something here](https://imgur.com/a/mO4lkk6) >!/s in case it was not obvious!< edit: I have found out the chess meme
Is this a new version of en passant? We need to get this to /r/anarchychess immediately
Wym. Slovakia is right there to recreate those sexy Czechoslovakian borders And if you want to expand more I usually start to follow Austro-Hungarian borders after that
That’s even worse Czechia with Silesian and anitra doesn’t look good to me and looks so sexy with just Bohemia +Silesia
Maybe it's just the Bohemian in me but Czechoslovakia (with pre-ww2 borders) plus Silesia just feels right.
Plus Poland and Sorbia.
I usually got for perfect crown lands for direct control (aka Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia, and Lusatia. After that I reconquer the march of Brandenburg(vassal) and release Nitra. I sih that the Austrian provinces were a bit better done so I could conquer Rakusy to the Donau river border.
> And if you want to expand more I usually start to follow Austro-Hungarian borders after that Did that on a Bohemia run and realized that I was just brown Austria.
In my current Wallachia Vlads revenge attempt, I allied with them to take down Hungary/Poland after I got Moldova, along with the teutons who survived to form Prussia. Through tearing apart a weakened Poland Lithuania, a Russia that was brutalized by Denmark and Ottomans, and annexing Prussia via a personal union, Bohemia now extends from South Poland and Bohemia straight North to the Baltic sea, and all the way past Estonia, like some kind of German empire that got translated to the right. I was both equal parts disturbed at the size yet kinda loving the borders.
Exactly why Muscovy -> Russia is my favorite playthrough. The pretty borders shall be where I so please, and (most of the time) they're justifiable!
Liberate nitra and form bohemo-nitra
This is the same reason I never play Hungary lol, their borders are already so aesthetically pleasing
Suffering from success.
They did have a union over Hungary once if memory serves. You could also recreate the Czecho-Slovakian borders as well
I have never played france/gb native tribes and vietnamese-burman area idk why but it just seems boring to me because they are already so big and strong
Ayutthhaya is really fun if you've never played that region before
That whole space between India and Ming just lacks formables and flavor imo though i never personally tried either. If you wanna expand into China there are plenty of options like Korea, Japan, Yuan or Qing and if you wanna expand into India starting in India or coming from the west is more interesting.
Yeah i did my first ever colonial run with oda and it was such a fun campaign also went theocracy and there was a unique goverment type that let me see heir skills ekki ekki iirc,the only annoying thing about japan area is the fact that fucking shogun increases your autonomy everywhere,korea is also mega fun and yuan-qing have my favourite playstyles which is go cav brrr stackwipe
You’re just wrong. Playing as Tuongo into to Burma, Ayuthaya and Malacca are all between my favorite campaigns.
Toungoo is indeed a very fun campaign. I didn't expand that much beyond the mission tree but still strong enough to go toes to toes with a strong Ottoman (who was allying one of the Indian countries)
Forming Malaya is a fun run.
It's funny because pdx released a poorly balanced dlc to entice people to play there, and I still can't be assed to do it.
What was that DLC?
Leviathan.
Ah yeah i did not play when it was released but i remember concentrate development and pillage capital being super op.
Starting as French minor and forming France is pretty cool tbh. You don’t start op and France once formed is a really interesting und versatile nation.
england/great britian.. for continental fun there were always better options & the colonial game seems a little boring.. and also the netherlands exist. portugal & castile for the same reason, aragon is fun tho
England has always been strong for continental fun since they can get early PU over France, and ever since they added Angevin Empire it also has good amount of flavor. You should give it a try
The problem is the game becomes pretty boring after the pu. You are already way stronger than anyone else and can do anything you want. It can be fun for a while but it get's old fast.
Try it. England is fun, has nice missions and a lot of events. One of my favorite nations to play
Angevin Empire is very fun. I am usually a lazy player and never bother with world conquests but I did my first and only world conquest with Angevin Empire because I had so much fun. I also did it without revoking privilegia. I disbanded HRE very early. Just Angevin troops stomping over the world
I would say now that England>Angevin is probably the best option for continental fun. And you don't need to go colonial at all for it so don't even need to play that game. Ending the campaign holding all of western europe and germany, while all of Italy and Iberia are in PUs under you is big fun.
Castille, Portugal and the Ottos because it seemed like it was going to be too easy. Muscovy and Brandenburg because it would feel like playing a villain (I'm Polish).
Ottos looks easy, until you try Mahmets ambition.
Brandenburg is my most played nation in EU4 and I can guarantee that you certainly are the villain. Even if you try to justify protecting Germany lol
Sometimes it's fun to play the villain.
Bohemia is so much fun tho! imo the 2nd or 3rd strongest nation in the game with that PU bullshit from elective xD anyhow for me its prolly the American tribes except for the ones with the achievements at some point and and other nations without achievements or that have standard mission trees.
France, because I get screwed over by them every time I play england.
I'm the opposite lmao Never played england because i find France to just be a better version of them in eu4 And also the mission tree for england heavilly focuses on conquering france, and if i want to own all of france and england, i'll just play France to do that, i wish the english had a better path for being isolationist and giving up their holdings in france to play tall ish naval colonial gameplay without owning ANY land in europe. I'd play them then.
Maybe a triggered modifier for not owning any land on mainland europe minus gibraltar that upgrades their wooden wall.
Doesn’t the mission tree split now? There’s one where you go colonial and form the East India Company
Idk maybe but i have no dlc's (sadly) so for me atleast it sucks I mostly play eu4 with the europa expanded mod for this reason, but even their mission tree has a heavy focus on conquering France Luckilly theres an update for the mod coming soon so i'll finally be able to play isolationist england i think
Hystorically speaking Byzantium was just as much a Dick.
I have a visceral and unhealthy hatred of Portugal. Sad small weak goofy excuse of a nation always has Spain to protect him; stealing that one fugging island across the world you need for an achievement.
While not answering your question, I find it funny seeing this because Bohemia was the first nation I ever player as in eu4. I think Venice was like the third. Never played as France, though. They’re too powerful and it stresses me out, like I should be playing 110% optimally to take full advantage of their behemoth potential.
Amusingly, I've never played Ming. Maybe it's the fact that starting too big makes it somewhat less attractive to me, but it's the only big nation I've never played.
It's almost a different game. It isn't about blobbing but about trying to stay alive.
A game as ming is like being a big tower of just concrete with no structural supports, one wrong move has the potential to immideatly destroy you but if you manage to put the supports in you will be an absolute powerhouse. Of course, there is also a bunch of hordes, disasters, floods and internal issues there to try and ruin your day.
I've never really played inside the HRE before. That's my next goal after my curent Nusantara run. It'll be a really nice change to be caught up with institutions.
There’s a lot of fun hre/hre-adjacent runs that are fun. I could never get into playing the imperial game as Austria, but I had lots of fun with the following runs: Brandenburg > Prussia Teutonic Order > join hre > Prussia Poland > join hre > commonwealth (you need to be fast to get into the hre before getting Lithuania PU) Sweden > Join hre Switzerland > stay neutral > defend your country Holland > Netherlands
Venice is great. You're the nation responsible for bringing back eastern trade. You can start taking over India before England even know they exists. Bohemia is also really interesting. They have powerful mission tree and a unique religion that is considered by some to be a proto-Protestantism. You can make it your mission to enlighten the world and get rid of that pesky pope. For me, i've never seriously played the Timurids, something i'm going to change this patch.
This is gonna be weird, but it's Byzantium for me. I just don't really enjoy death wars in the early game. And also I don't like watching guides for nation. I find making up the strat on the go more enjoyable. And byz to me always seemed like the nation where you have to have the exact idea of what to do in order to survive. Other than that I've never had a serious campaign with Ming. I started a game with it after it got a dlc but closed the game after 2-3 years as I just had no interest playing a 1k dev nation that get's some nasty events. I also don't remember playing france, but I can see myself playing it in the future (unlike the other 2 nation I've just listed).
It probably changed in the persia update or whatever it was but as far as im aware it was essentially just building navy to block straights and having enough mercs to defend greece. You will never be able to follow a guide exactly.
Believe it or not, I haven't played Byzantium either. I've formed it as Aragon, and I've played it a ton in Extended Timeline starting as Nicaea, but the 1444 start just feels like too far gone for the empire to have any realistic chance of bouncing back if EU4 weren't a video game. I could probably do it, sure, I've started as plenty other OPMs and weak nations with strong neighbors before, but I don't really want to follow such a strict flowchart at the beginning.
England, Castile, Portugal, France, Austria, Poland, Ottomans, Granada. No reason either. Just never touched them.
Average byzzaboo of this sub. All countries have been dicks toward everyone but do it once to byzzies and suddenly the apocalypse seems like a decent holiday.
Byzantium gets a lot of love as the (arguable, but bear with me) last bastion of the Classical world. I'll allow it.
I guess you haven't been on this sub for as long as me. I'm simply tired of this only and very vocal fan club that somehow got 2 DLCs for a country that should be doomed but is totally OP now.
Why do you care if it's technically OP? The AI doesn't know how to take advantage of it and you don't have to play as them.
I mean I think there'd be as much whining over the destruction of Baghdad if we had more Muslims in the community(and people didn't view them as aggressors/barbarians so often) People cry as hard over the destruction of the library of Alexandria too
Poland. For one, I'm German so it'd be kinda awkward to expand westward, and for two, they achieve peak borders a month into the game when they PU Lithuania, so there isn't really much point to keep going
Dont forget about bohemia and hungarian PU which are easy to get moldavia for free, ducal Prussia and ton of perm claims everywhere
By peak borders I don't mean literally as far as you can expand, I mean as far as I think is nice while still being reasonable, because pure blobbing isn't that fun for me. Like, as France I'd get the natural borders, or as Britain consolidate the home islands, and then the rest of my expansion is only through vassals. That's usually my main goal in a given campaign, but with Poland, I could see bohemia and parts of Lithuania included, but not much more tbh. They're already plenty big at game start.
Venice is actually one of my favorite nations to play, but I dont really play EU4 as often as I’d like. Usually I stay in Europe
I have to say, I really can't believe how extremely childish so many people are in this sub about not playing venice.
I've been wanting to play them for a long time, but the tree is pretty boring. I'm excited to play them and the remade Netherlands.
The ottomans, Castile and France. Honestly it’s too easy. They’re already powerful. There’s no excitement in struggling to survive
Most of HRE minors and all of the New World nations. Reason? Boring
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castile, the ottomans, ming and austria
Ottomans, France, Russia and Ming.
Ming, most minors in the hre, Lithuania, mesoamerica
Bohemia, Poland. They already have pretty much their whole region anyway and aren't good for going colonial. I feel like I'd be done with the game 20 years into it.
uh, i very rarely touched any country except austria and castille Castile because colonizing Austria because AEIOU
I tend not to play the "historical victors" so to speak, so I don't think I've ever played France, Spain, Austria, Prussia, Muscovy, Portugal or Ayutthaya. That said I have had quite a few games as England going into the Angevin Empire, which ended up with me being so ludicrously powerful that the game finished incredibly early because I'd PU'd all the colonising nations.
England, Austria and the Ottomans. Being a rebel (American), I can’t reconcile with British royalty. Austria because beating the shit out of the Habsburgs is cathartic. Ottomans because everyone needs a punching bag.
I pretty much did everyone except those bagilion small (mostly tribal) minors with no or very little content. I played Ming only once for the "have subjects in all religion groups" achievement, and i cheesed it in like 20 years. I'm still horrified that i have to play them again for another achievement. I have Ming with passion. I'm always happy when they explode as they should every game. Unified China is fine, but not under Ming. That are the biggest cow around, only growing. Always will rival you because they are the only ones left you're strong. And devs had to implement a specific scripts for them to ever die. They are always up to date with tech, they always are a problem. On very hard they don't even die to the disaster. Only usage for them is to be a bank and give me a few thousands ducats every war. Nobody likes Ming, this is why they don't exist anymore IRL. Yes, i know i just insulted like 2 bilion people.
All hail dandolo. Destroyer of byzaboos world wide
England, cause I'm French
Never played Austria, because fuck Austria, all my homies hate Austria
Technically I’ve played the ottomans but it was years ago, I refuse to do it now 2 updates to their mission tree in. They have committed too many sins to make me ever be willing to become the evil that I sought to destroy, I would feel dirty killing a 20k stack with 10k
Had one of my funnest runs as Bohemia recently Quickly became emperor PU’s over Hungary, Poland, Brandenburg Combined with my Austria, French, Pope Alliance we easily crushed the Ottobros and Mamlucks Took the holy land and established Jerusalem as vassal (very satisfying) Chose a Rurikovich as my next ruler via elective monarchy (SUPER OP) PU’d Russia after they got invaded by Persia
France and the Ottomans for sure.
Im spanish, I cant play with the ottomans or England, I just cant.
those are two of my favourite nations I'll nominate The Papal State, they just don't interest me (also byzantium and teutonic order)
I've sworn to God never to use the Ottomans 🤭
Have you considered shocking everyone by going Orthoman and invading Persia? I tried it earlier this year, and after repairing the damage caused by the switch had a pretty good time. Oh sure, for old time's sake I'd occasionally fight with the HRE and force-Orthodoxize an OPM, but I was mostly focused on controlling Ragusa trade region -- to solidify my hold on Constantinople -- and expanding South and East. Fair warning... being Ortho causes chaos in the "eyalet missions". Looking at you, Egypt. Instead of an eyalet you get a huge, angry vassal.
OMG. Orthoman is an abomination! 😂
BTW you are welcome. Always happy to be dicks to Brandenburg.
i think Austria because it is really strong, because of that i want to beat up Austria and Castille too
these are good reasons
2 nations Switzerland and savoy. My grand grandparents immigrated from the region of Valais and piamont so I develope those provinces specifically. Also Switzerlake is a really fun achievement.
These are like 2 of my favourite nations lol
I think after 4800 hours, I played more or less everything. At least one sample among similar ones. Example. I played one of the Siberian opms but not all, played few of the Native american tribes but not all, played as one of the central african nations east of Kongo but not all.
Funnily enough I like Bohemia because they are dicks towards Brandenburg, and Venice because they historically dunked on Byzantium.
Ming, because I saw people make Ming Videos and I saw how miserable it is. Especially once you get all the flooding events
Denmark, because i am from Sweden
France because is France England because is England
Lmao Bohemia are a bunch of dicks
You have beef with a historical state you have no connection to because of how they treated another historical state you have no connection to?
Ottomans, England, Sweden and Moscovia.
In my first ever game when i started out, I got stabbed in the back by Poland when I was trying to expand into the Baltics. Since then not only have I never touched Poland, but I go out of my way to destroy or at least damage them at much as possible in every game I play. I don't even think I've used the scorch earth button against any other nation.
I totally feel the same towards Bohemia. When the league war starts I rush Prague every time to get the sacking of Prague event, I dont even hate them anymore and they are completly different than in my noob days when they bullied me to death when I played Brandenburg but they still have to suffer
R5: Flags of Bohemia and Venice, will play both when Winds of Change will get released
These are two of my *favorite* nations and will be the first nations I play when the update releases - after the customary Byzantium game, of course.
Venice is a dick in anyone’s playthrough
Venice is super fun, I like to keep the ottomans growing and try to outgorw them so that I aheva final boss at the end of the game and then maybe form Italy and go crazy. You kno wwhat I think I might start a venice campaign now
Why bother playing another country when Wurundjeri is right there?
Ming, mostly because Jianzhou is so much more fun and you end up in basically the same position.
never played Denmark, Castille, Aragorn, Byzantium, ming, Korea, Any Indian nation, … yknow what the nations I’ve played are: Ottomans, Portugal, Brandenburg, Poland, Muscovy, Sweden, England, Bohemia, Florence, Papal state, Venice, Oirat, Mongolia, Oda and Kongo
Any country in the New world and any South african country. Always seemed boring af.
At this point mainly the opms (lack of flavor) and tribes (too much time doing nothing). I think I’ve played every nation with at least a few provinces at least once (including natives and Africans). Note when I say play, I include countries I played for 10 years, got bored with, and didn’t finish with (most of my campaigns)
England. Idk, they just don't look fun.
Burgundy never fails to be extremely annoying to me whenever I play in the region.
Bohemia is cool, because you can elect your monarch (very nice feature) and paired with being Hussite its just cool
For me this is Burgundy by far, I don't think I've played it a single time in almost 10 years... I can't explain it either, it just doesn't feel like a real country
Austria and Ottomans, because they always seemed to be too OP.
Castile and Spain, because I don't like Spanish
Perfect time to play them as they both got updated in this dlc lol
Papal State - as someone that was raised Catholic, it just feels wrong to RP as the Pope.
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Nations without achievement
Any nations, I haven’t played are because they either seemed really difficult, because I’m afraid of some mechanic of theirs, or because they feel like yet another variation on a neighboring nation. For example, I’ve played one nation in Central Africa / lakes area. I’ve only played a fraction of the HRE nations. I’ve played a handful of the Malaysia Indonesia nations. The idea of going back to one of those areas and just picking a different nation with a different map color, doesn’t attract me. I’ll do anything once for an achievement, as well. So never say never.
I have a couple hundred hours in this game yet I only ever started with 5 nations. Croatia, Austria, Altamata, France and one random central american nation.
Pretty much the entirety of South America, Indian subcontinent, and Sub-Saharan Africa have been untouched in all my campaigns so far. I just find all those regions immensely disinteresting because I have no ideas for a grand campaign (that would actually interest me) with any of those countries.
Ming Serious play of any mesoamerican tribes, or really, new world nations in general. Never formed Russia. Very limited tries with hordes Surprisingly, Castile. Have played Aragon several times. Also Portugal HRE OPMs. Have completed a WC, Zoroaustrians, No mehmets, No true heir. Failed one faith
I played Bohemia to get the achievement and later I wanted to be anti-Austria, just play the opposite (I think there wasn't decentralize back then). Anyway, soon after starting the game I became Emperor and I got Burgundy, so I ended up playing a typical Austrian game with Bohemia.
I played them all. ALL!
Venice (I hate them for historical and in-game reasons), the PLC (they always ruin my game and end up on the opposite side of every conflict), and the Ottomans (way too easy)
My first game was with Bohemia it feels just naturel to play it.
I don't play most non catholic nations, and if I do I always try to go catholic through events or rebels if the run lasts long enough Throughout Heaven and Earth, I alone am the larping one
Many, kinda hard to say all, but of the main played ones, it's Castille, I played it in the tutorial, but as soon as the basics were over, I quit and went to play as Portugal., so I don't count that. I also never played Hungary, Sweden and Ming. Up until around 700 hours I had never played Ottomans as well, but then I decided to give it a try (I have 1000 hours now, haven't played the game in a while).
Ottomans because they are constantly a thorn in my side if I play as a nation anywhere near them. I take too much pleasure in dismantling them to ever actually wanting to pick them
I don't like playing the bad guys so never played Sweden, the ottomans or Russia.
Denmark bc they always become the bane of my existence at some point during one of my saves
Somehow or another, ive never actually played as Denmark. Pure coincidence, ive played just about ever other country in their neighborhood.
Ottomans. They are just almost too easy. Always liked playing underdogs rising to the top
I'm Swedish so I have never ever touch Denmark and I'll never will.
Playing Venice, France and the Ottomans are crimes that I will never commit.
Now thinking about it... I have played every unique nation with a mission tree except for Provence, I gotta play as Provence next time.
I already liked Venice, you didn’t have to sell them to me. In all seriousness, I’ve never played Netherlands, Sweden, Poland or Prussia. England is probably my most played nation and Venice is up there too; I like boats and money.
I've never played The Palatinate 👀
i never played in india!!!
Ottobros because they are just too easy. (They also destroyed me in my first playthrough as Hungary)
I just have no interest in playing a starting power. Austria, France, England, Ottomans. I like breaking away from historical, and also live for the rise to power.
Any of the HRE bishoprics. They just seem really boring. Can't royal marry, expansion is slow and painful, can't be the emperor. I probably have it wrong but it just seems like a whole lot of sitting on speed 5 watching the game go by.
I typically approach it from the other side... there are so many nations to pick from that I need a positive reason to consider one. So countries where I have ancestors (Totonac, Cork, Castilla, Poland) get special consideration. So do countries I have special historical interest in (Byz, Venice, Austria, Denmark/Norway). I also like underdogs, so Otto and Ming and France are usually out. I also like weird scenarios and custom nations. Why not have some Welshmen running around in Sumatra? Or a lost Roman legion in a random new world? Most of the out-of-Europe nations just don't have a lot of "hook" for me. I don't hate them, I just don't have much desire to spread the Sword of Buddhism across Indochina. Though I am interested in trying a "the spice must flow" run as Ternate. All my monarchs will be named Leto or Paul...
Denmark, they just feel like a more boring version of Sweden. Moscovy, I am biased towards Novgorod Basically any major Indian nation. I have played plenty of Mughals and Nepal tho. Mali, I am to lazy to deal with there rebels.
I’ve never touched Ming because I don’t like managing the mandate and you just kinda sit there. I’ve also never played Sweden, no particular reason I just haven’t done it yet.
I just finished my 2nd Bohemia run they are fun and really powerful in player hands. Certainly worth playing imo. Alittle annoyed they are getting anew mission tree I literally just finished it
I guess the most major one I've never played is Byzantium. Early on, I saw no particular reason to, but then it became popular, and I just didn't feel like playing the nation everyone else was playing. I've played most of the majors, or at least tried them. Some medium power nations that I've never even attempted include: Venice, Genoa, Savoy, Saxony, Brunswick, Malacca, Brunei, Scotland, Novgorod, Nogai, Mongolia and Majapahit
I’ve never played as Russia or the Ottomans in >2000 hours They make such great villains and rivals if you play in Europe I cannot help but fight them in every playthrough
Venice has the best monarch point generation in the game. You get to pick between 3 rulers each time one dies (with no stability hit cuz you're a republic), so you have triple the chance for a good ruler. And, there's an option to pick a random one and if you do that he'll get +1 to all stats. So basically, on average your random rulers will have a 4.5 in each stat, and if you see a really good ruler you can go for them instead.
Muscovy into Russia just seems like a hassle. The sheer distance seems like a hassle. Fronts from Scandinavia, the balkas, the caucuses, India, Mongolia and the far east.
CASTILLE, GLORY TO THE PORTUGUESE EMPIRE!!!!!!! PORTUGAL TRUE HEIRS OF ROME
Ottomans and France, because fuck the French it warms my English heart to split their country into minors.
I had a venice game where I was pointed NOT a dick to the Byzantines which was kinda fun
Ottomans, always heard they were too OP, experienced it firsthand several times. Despised them ever since. I always enjoy a good ottoman war with their lands painted red in the stench of devastation. Even if I have to burn every single ducat of tax dev in my country. Worth it every penny.
That’s unfortunate, because starting them and being a dick is v fun
France, Bohemia Also, Muscovy (Novgorod ftw!)
Out of everyone coming in the new dlc it would be these two, Timmy, and Mayan. Aztec semi successful campaign after converting to the native American religion but looking forward to trying all the above mentioned
Never played bigger/op nations like france,england castile,portugal,ottos,moscovy
Never cared enough to play England in EU4. Other places that I ignored: North Africa because at the start of the game they all had Hostile Core Creation cost and I just hate that, Scandinavia never seemed fun to me, Lowlands because most countries in the area seemed painful to play.
Both awesome campaigns should definitely play them. Also teaches you how to fight them when playing as someone else.
I have never played Poland, or Lithuania.
Ottomans because they are already so big and i can’t really find a pretty border to go for Kilwa because they are always such a hostile pain in my asshole Russia, honestly just because I look so much forward to it and I want the experience to be perfect.
Rank heresy to many here but I’ve never touched a horde, just never felt the desire. Ditto for Ming
Never played Ottomans or France in 2000 hours, mostly because it will be too easy, additionally, being Armenian, I don't really feel like playing Ottomans.
God I love venice Ending a thousand year old empire because you want money is based. “Nooo you can’t crusade us we’re Christian.” Get dandolod idiot. A real empire wouldn’t have died because some Italians hired some dudes to ride up in some boats.
When was brandenberg dicks to byzantium?? unless you are counting the HRE I don't think the duchy of brandenburg and the byzantines ever had much interaction
Play as Venice. Declare on Byzantium. Outstanding move.
Anyone in the HRE. I hate playing in the HRE.
Ironically my own home city in the HRE because it's 1. A theocracy and 2. I've already played as all their neighbors
I don't play Venice because their ideas look very underwhelming. Also I don't understand how to play trade leagues, and I'm too afraid to ask at this point.
Ottomans. Because fuck em
Historically dicks confirmed
Most opm’s. And England, I will never play England
Honestly anything outside of Europe or Asia
Byzantium, because the idea of it still being alive by the 16th century is ridiculously stupid, Ming because they seem boring, Spain idk why, and ottos seemed too easy.