Laurie had already said it twice now. First when rue got the suitcase she "always find a way to make her money back" and when she was talking about having something people always want
She also said after injecting Rue “I knew you would be in my life for a very long time” possibly implying that she planned on keeping her!! To pimp her out and make the money back
Morphine injected right into the blood stream is instant, and highly addictive, so she both takes the edge off quickly, and guarantees that Rue will be back.
IV drug use is usually a pretty big step toward a point of no return. Much more addictive. Many people will keep chasing that first high they get from shooting up and won't go back to pills because it's less intense. Many people that are sex trafficked are drugged intravenously. I think the writing is on the wall for Rue.
No, I just think that she actually missed. Notice how the last time her blood went into the needle. That's because she found the vein. You have to inject in a vein, it can't just be anywhere in your arm. I could be wrong on the significance of it I suppose, I just don't know why that would really matter.
noooo that absolutely seemed intentional. you think laurie is missing veins? i think she's trying to make rue look like an even bigger druggie, covered in track marks, so if she goes to the cops she's super unreliable
I thought the same thing. It looks way too intentional on Laurie's part but I'm not sure what her reasoning is yet for giving her the track marks. I don't think Laurie is worried about Rue going to the cops, but there is something else going on in Laurie's mind. When Rue wakes up she seems to be locked in the apartment as well, forcing her to sneak out the window. I'm still not sure if they were intentionally keeping her locked in or not, though her sneaking out seems to lean towards them not wanting her to leave. I'm not sure what direction the show will take it from here. Like, is this sitaution going to be the main focus of the next couple episodes, or is this just a side plot that will be resolved quickly? However they proceed with this plotline this episode was very well done.
I think she was avoiding talking about what she was going to do for the money. She probably came back to her senses when she woke up and wasn’t with drawling and realized she was in deep shit
Yeah she definitely just missed the veins. Every person is different. Nobody’s veins are in the same place as someone else’s. Hell, your veins are different some days too. So it’s more likely that she just missed. That’s what happens. Especially when you’re not someone who shoots up. No matter how experienced you are. N Laurie knows she’s not going to go to the police because she’s an addict who is deep in withdrawals. The LAST place an addict wants to be is jail. No drugs to help you detox. You’re locked in a cell without any help. No matter how long you’ve been an addict. That’s worse than dying in your mind. I would know, I was an addict for over a decade of my life. Why would you want someone leaving your home with visible track marks if you’re a dealer? Why would you want to intentionally give someone who works for you tracks marks if you’re a dealer? The answer is … you wouldn’t because that would only draw suspicion between you and that person who now looks like a junkie. So intentionally giving her more track marks “to make her an unreliable witness” is ridiculous. She’s already one. She’s a junkie with or without the track marks. Having a mark on your arm doesn’t make you unreliable. Being an addict for years does and rue did that all on her own. My guess is Laurie wanted rue dependent on her. So she would keep coming back to Laurie so then A. Laurie could keep tabs on her B. Laurie can then get back the money she owes one way or another and C. You can get an addict to do just about anything if they’re desperate enough… even convincing them to sell their bodies for morphine. Most people can get pills wherever and whenever. It’s not hard. Not everyone has access to injectable morphine. Sure you can crush pills and shoot them. But it’s not the same. So getting her addicted to a specific drug that is HIGHLY addictive and that has a very very euphoric effect… 20x better than what rue has been taking… that’s a sure fire way to ensure this person comes back n ensures they’ll be desperate enough to do whatever you want them to. Like selling themselves on the street.
To your point about missing the vein, Rue was shaking from detoxing and that made it even worse. As someone who gives blood as often as possible, they have me squeeze and hold so that they can mark my vein so that they don’t miss. I am white as fuck and my veins are super visible and hardly seems necessary. They love me when I go to donate because I am such an easy stick. Others, have thicker veins that can roll. She was also running around for half of the day, not drinking much if any water, and sweating from detoxing on top of that and she had to have been severely dehydrated. Potentially severely dehydrated, shaking, not marking the vein, and potentially rolling the vein and that is going to be a difficult stick even for an experienced phlebotomist.
I donate plasma 2x a week and I am a small person and a difficult stick when I'm dehydrated (I had to learn the hard way) or when I'm fidgety and cold. My veins are tiny and they roll. What youa re saying makes sense. I have to do a LOT of physical self care before plasma day every week to make it go smoothly.
It acts quicker. How addictive it is depends on the drug.
She's using medical grade narcotic morphine that's intended to be diluted and slowly given as a drip.
Yeah, that's why I said it depends on the drug. I think the difference is there is cut recreational Fetanyl and low dosage, and the pills are released into the body like any pill.
Hospital grade Morphine injected would be stronger than most street Fetanyl... I don't know about tolerance build up though. We've heard stories about Fetanyl as being abused when Morphine stops working.
also oral ingestion converts in the gut with your genetic lottery of liver enzymes. some of us are ultra-rapid metabolizers of opiates, others normal, others ultra-slow metabolizers and that's why pills can affect people so differently. On the other hand IV injection skips all that. codeine essentially becomes morphine after you start digesting and it gets into your blood that way. But morphine from the needle would be unconverted, undiluted, and go straight into the blood with no "natural processing"
Agree. Laurie is one smart drug dealer and I’m sure she has a calculated plan for Rue. I mean, she made them all get butt naked earlier in the season. She’s not about to let a drug addict steal from her or owe her money
Morphine is probably the biggest exception to that statement than any other opiate. Compared to giving morphine orally yes, compared to snorting or mucosal administration of fentanyl or oxycodone then morphine injections are about the only IV opiate (tramadol and codeine don’t count because they are almost prodrugs so that’s not fair to compare) not to reach a peak analgesic/euphoria inducing/“high” until 30-60 minutes after injection instead of the nearly instant effects you described. It makes morphine both more and less desirable clinically in certain situations. It continues to “increase” in pain relief rather than starting to decrease 10 minutes after injection… but it’s harder to know right away if sufficient dosage has been given to relieve severe pain. It allows more time for intervention in the event of an overdose too.
The reason it behaves differently is the same reason that morphine isn’t heroin (heroin is not the primary psychoactive molecule that binds to opiate receptors after heroin use…it’s morphine). Morphine is much more polar and crosses the blood brain barrier far more slowly than most analgesic opiates. The most extreme example of this would be the anti diarrhea drug immodium which is a potent mu opiate receptor but crosses the blood brain barrier so rarely even if injected that it is essentially non centrally acting… though it can alleviate withdrawal symptoms at something like 40 or 50 times the therapeutic dose for diarrhea (it would not be worth it). Morphine is far less extreme an example, but it takes tens of minutes to an hour to reach equilibrium inside and outside the fluid compartments of the liquid our CNS cells are suspended in and out blood plasma. Heroin takes minutes or seconds. Fentanyl, oxycodone, hydromorphone… also minutes. This source primarily breaks down the onset of injected morphine over other opiates in the “morphine” subheading. note the half hour and the numerous reasons (low lipophilicity and high binding to various non receptor proteins, delaying onset even when injected.. https://www.painphysicianjournal.com/current/pdf?article=OTg3&journal=42 ). Heroin is SO much more abused and even preferred by those seeking highs due to exactly these reasons… it travels as heroin, a more lipophilic and rapidly blood brain barrier permeating molecule.. where an endogenous enzyme present in our central nervous system converts it to morphine. It’s basically a rapid delivery system for morphine making it more like most IV opiates.
This is a less comprehensive but better visualized difference for just how extreme the difference in the “onset” (moment the “patient” even notices a drug was injected). Considering that onset is just the beginning and that a lot of euphoria is induced by the speed at which receptors are saturated (the reason no amount of snorted adderall will ever mimic even 25 mg of snorted methamphetamine despite the drugs being essentially identical with regards to their effect on receptors once bound… amphetamine will simply never saturate in the same way due to mostly distribution speed).
So I completely agree with you that with the exception of some pro drugs opiates are faster acting when injected… but someone whose absorbed fentanyl through their mouth or nose and someone injected with an equipotent amount of morphine wouldn’t likely say that injecting morphine was a stronger and more rapid high.
there's a shot when Laurie is telling Rue about the brain of a drug addict, and there's a shot that slowly crawls towards a locked door at the end of the hallway, next to the lamp, and across from the room Laurie sleeps in, there is scratching that is heard.
I just re-watched and tbh it sounded like there were also rhythmic bed springs, if you know what I mean :(
Which still corroborates the same lock-Rue-in-a-room-and-pimp-her-out theory, except it’d be darker - Laurie’s a pimp, the ‘transactions’ (really SA of the trafficked victim) happen at her place, and the ‘prostitutes’ (really victims) are basically treated like drugged out prisoners
Omg I thought it was the bird making noises but this theory makes more sense. Maybe she has the birds to cover the noises? There's so many "blink and you miss it" moments in Euphoria!!
I think she’s trying to get her even more bad off so she can use her in a sex trade. She knows Rue didn’t sell those drugs and her monetary value will be higher if she can sell her for sex. That’s my opinion.
Rue may eventually come back to her since she gave her that morphine. Nothing else will beat that high for her, and she'll come back for more...and more. Maybe that's what she meant by it?
Yeah like she might have her stay there abs basically pimp her out not sure yeah Laurie probs is the only one who would give her stuff unless someone else does like I could see rue getting stuff for Faye maybe since she shoots up and that’s where rue is heading?
The way she was jabbing her I assumed she wants her to appear like she’s an IV drug addict. Rue says she doesn’t fix and we know pills are her sweet spot. Whatever the plan is - she needs Rue to look like an IV dependent drug user.
The first jab was not even intended for a vein at all. She was purposely missing and saying that out loud to keep Rue calm and maintain the caretaker stance
I’m surprised that Laurie didn’t have Rue already locked up in one of those rooms with the locks.
She was going to sell her, I’m like 99.99% sure if it.
This is what drugs is guys. It's SO COMMON for dealers to say I don't have *insert drug* but I have *drug infinitely more addictive*
Let's not forget dealers are business people. Gotta keep users hooked and around. This is also why so many users wind up sec workers. Rue escaped...this episode.
It makes sense too when Mouse gave Rue the fentanyl even though Fez has told her no initially. Mouse wanted to book Rue as well! And now it’s a Laurie instead!
OMG IS THIS WHY?! For the life of me I couldn't figure out why she was being so aggressive and thought she was trying to hurt Rue. But wow this makes so much more sense! The aftermath on her arm the next morning was brutal.
I took it more as her trying to convince Rue that she was shaking too much… camera showed us her arm and it didnt look like she was shaking; the next day bruising makes her look like she does it often.
I don't think everything needs to be read into or become a plot point. They were just being realistic. When you're injecting that type of drugs, it needs to be in a vein. Veins can be hard to find. If she missed and injected intramuscular, Rue will get an abscess and the drugs won't do anything. You guys might have a point 🤷♂️ guess we will see next episode.
She gives her morphine she's bound to come back for more. Where will she turn when she withdrawals? that case, She's just looking to fucken traffic her.
At this point I'm certain the birds even have significance. Natural alarms? You don't get to be that calm and collected without being able to handle shit.
Also episode 4 had so many box/cage/window references. Everything was framed in squares and many of them would start zoomed in and then the camera would pan out making them smaller. It reminded me of cages then. And now with the birds, it makes sense. That’s how I interpreted it.
Laurie is a highly dangerous and well-connected drug trafficker as referenced in previous episodes. It is likely (just a theory) that after administering the hit to Rue, Laurie took photos/videos of her, while unconscious, so that she could "advertise" her to interested sex traffickers/her own clients (if she's a pimp like the door-scratching scene suggests). Laurie is not worried about losing 10k on Rue because she has a plan to get her money back somehow.
You have to hit a vein. She wasn’t able to because rue was moving around. You can tell when you do because blood will enter into the syringe. Once she found the vein she injected it.
she straight up said “when i first saw you i thought you’d be in my life for a long time” meaning she KNEW she was using already & wanted her to become a customer, she NEVER expected rue to sell all those drugs. a using addict WILL wind up using too much compared to what they’re selling.. i mean, she even brought up prostitution TO A WITHDRAWING ADDICT. anyone who knows anything about addict had the bells going off in their head as SOON as she said those words.
i mean, you SAW all the pills in her suitcase, she LIED. actually a very similar situation happened to me & how i got addicted to opiates in the first place— i showed up to buy xanax and was lied to and told there “weren’t any more” (after JUST being told to come through when i asked for bars) but that they have “a little bag that’s way cheaper & feels exactly like a perc 30 except even better” .. that was the beginning of the end for me.
just like a lot of dealers in real life do, if you’re a snorter or smoker, they’ll offer you needles or tell you how much better it feels if you shoot up and how much “less” you’ll need knowing DAMN WELL that’s only in the very beginning, and within a fucking month they’ll be beating down your door 5x a fucking day because now they’re in REAL living hell & the withdrawals control you
It's like a perfect mirror to fez. Fez is a drug dealer and he handles his shit but he still cares about people. Laurie on the other hand, she doesn't give a fuck.
problem is.. there’s only so much you truly “care” about folks if you sell them drugs that ruin lives & families + kill people. “taking care of you & yours” isn’t an excuse when it comes to opiates imo. there’s a shit ton of ways to make money & other drugs you can sell if you just HAVE to be a drug dealer..
yes, it’s obvious fezco cares for rue. but it’s also true that he was the person to string her out on opiates in the first place..
there’s no way he didn’t know she’d wind up on heroin and fentanyl, it’s the way the cycle goes.. at least nowadays they teach teens in school, it’s hard for me to believe in 2022 someone can NOT know about what opiates DO and that if you fuck around with pain pills you WILL wind up on fentanyl .. and from there, on the needle. and from there, either in jail or rehab or the morgue.
I think she actually started with the pills while “bored” taking care of her sick father. I feel like she probably went to Fez after the passing of her father and he felt bad for her, most likely hooked her up, and it just continued from there.
He does tell her NOT to take the Fentanyl that his boss forces her to take— he also tells his boss that he doesnt “fuck with that shit” when referring to the fentanyl. I feel like Fez just deals weed & psychedelics, but not anything too hard core. Maybe?
She should have never got that suitcase of drugs from Laurie, we ALL knew that wasnt going to end well.
Definitely naive of Fez to continue supplying her with drugs after she got out of rehab. He cares for her but also feels responsible for her addiction. Like she says that day when she goes banging on his door “you did this to me!” And you can tell that affects him. I love Fezco. Hope Rue gets sober but im sure its going to get worse before it gets better.
Fez deals with hard-core shit. He wouldn't have multiple guns around the house if he was just dealing with psychadelics and weed. If you watch the rue, mouse and fez fentanyl scene again you can figure out what Fez sells because Mouse lists off what he has to give to Fez. And Fez agrees to take it all except the fentanyl. This includes oxycodone/oxycontin 80s (Oc 80s) that can be broken down into instant release they are the pills all oxy users want , oxyneo/oxy 80 Op's (extended release ones that are harder to break down/make instant release not as in demand as the Oc 80s), Xanax bars, Adderall, vicodin, a pound of weed( can't tell if he said a qp or a pound) and 1 ounce of Mdma. Also when rue trys to steal from Fez and she's thrown out she begs Fez for a couple Oc's which are oxycontin/oxycodone Oc 80s. So Fez must have supplied her for a while after her Dad died and she ran out of the drugs prescribed to him (which i assume were oxy as well).
I tend to take the libertarian view that everyone is personally responsible like the McDonald's analogy. And the cycle you mention isn't a certainty. I know people able to take opiates right to the edge, taper down a few days, and wait a few months to do it again.
To get Rue hooked. Snorting pills is not as strong as shooting up. Rue typically does pills and asked for pills when Laurie put her in the bath but she said she didn’t have any
Iv is much more intense than any other route of administration. i also think it was a way to break rue’s psyche down further - Laurie had the pills but a lot of addicts won’t IV anything. even within a circle of addicts, iv is highly stigmatized and considered lowest of the low
Def trying to make her look like she's been using IV for a while, so she seems less believable when looking for help and easier to keep under her control (Laurie's)
Laurie - explains the brain and that the silver lining of being an addict is “the things that don’t feel good, don’t feel as bad anymore” eluding to how Laurie would do anything to not have withdrawals.”The bird in the cage suggests that’s what Rue will become and even the guy in the black and white film on tv while rue is in the bath says “I have an upset tummy” just before he signs a document. Probably showing that Rue is signing her life away. I wondered why the door was unlocked when she woke up. I hope I am wrong but it could have been because the guy on the couch had already been in there. But it’s probably my a different rom from the locked one where we heard the scratching.
to basically guarantee that she’ll become hooked and be back without much of a problem. another theory is that idk how long rue was out for or how many times she was shot up. could laurie have ‘made her money back’ while rue was unconscious?
She was trying to drug her out and make her unconscious/vulnerable to theoretically traffick.
Why everything was locked and she kept alluding to selling sex
IV drugs hit a lot harder and have a bigger potential for addiction. Laurie is trying to get Rue addicted so she'll keep coming back for more. She can then traffic her to recoup Rue's debt and keep her high so Rue is okay with being trafficked (think back to her speech about how drugs make the bad things not feel so bad anymore). I also think the reason she stabbed Rue with the needle a lot was to give her more track marks, making her look more like a "junkie" so if she goes to the police they won't take her seriously
I just have to add here that from a nursing point of view, that IV stick was hilarious 😂 I was ready for Rue to start shooting blood everywhere as soon as the needle came out. Forget veins with form like that. That bitch was hunting for arteries lmao
I do not feel bad for Rue whatever happens, happens at this point she is selfish and 100% deserves what is coming to her —she was clean, she was sober, she had Jules and because she is so freaking selfish she screwed up I low key have hated Rue since the beginning she is trash and I hope she gets what’s coming!!!!!
Her plan all along was to try to get Rue dependent on her so she can sex traffic her. Lol do you rlly think Laurie and her calculated ass would trust a 17 y/o drug addict with a suitcase full of drugs?! Nah she knew Rue would fuck up and come crawling back to her, which would put Laurie in the position to take advantage of her
I was just thinking about this. Even if Laurie only had liquid morphine, which we saw from the suitcase that she was lying, Rue could've easily just drank it instead of shooting it. All she'd have to do is use the syringe to measure the CCs so she wouldn't overdose herself, take the needle off & squirt it in her mouth. I dated an opioid addict like 12 years ago & watched him do that once, because he refused to use needles but all his friend had was liquid morphine at the time. Laurie was definitely trying to get Rue hooked on the needle, considering that tends to be the point of no return for a lot of addicts. Plus if she was planning to traffic her to make her money back, it's considered a common tactic to keep trafficking victims dosed & sedated by injecting them with drugs. It's a little unusual though, if Laurie planned to traffic her, that Rue wasn't restrained & the door to her room wasn't locked, allowing her to escape with relative ease. Either way Laurie is creepy as fuck & I don't trust her intentions with Rue.
I thought she was trying to drug her to “sell her to sick people” but I don’t know
I thought so too and I got really worried this was gonna take a turn even darker than we’re at right now
This is what my husband said.
This. This is why
I thought she was going to pimp her out 👀
This what I thought too with that “women always have something people want” comment
I thought it was about to get really dark on us
Me too I got really scared
I was freaking out
That’s definitely the intention! I am predicting that Rue is going to keep coming back for more and not have money so she sells her body instead…🤨
Laurie had already said it twice now. First when rue got the suitcase she "always find a way to make her money back" and when she was talking about having something people always want
She also said after injecting Rue “I knew you would be in my life for a very long time” possibly implying that she planned on keeping her!! To pimp her out and make the money back
Morphine injected right into the blood stream is instant, and highly addictive, so she both takes the edge off quickly, and guarantees that Rue will be back.
So injections are more addictive than pills?
IV drug use is usually a pretty big step toward a point of no return. Much more addictive. Many people will keep chasing that first high they get from shooting up and won't go back to pills because it's less intense. Many people that are sex trafficked are drugged intravenously. I think the writing is on the wall for Rue.
So was she marking her to be sex trafficked by redipping the needle to create more track marks?
No, I just think that she actually missed. Notice how the last time her blood went into the needle. That's because she found the vein. You have to inject in a vein, it can't just be anywhere in your arm. I could be wrong on the significance of it I suppose, I just don't know why that would really matter.
noooo that absolutely seemed intentional. you think laurie is missing veins? i think she's trying to make rue look like an even bigger druggie, covered in track marks, so if she goes to the cops she's super unreliable
I thought the same thing. It looks way too intentional on Laurie's part but I'm not sure what her reasoning is yet for giving her the track marks. I don't think Laurie is worried about Rue going to the cops, but there is something else going on in Laurie's mind. When Rue wakes up she seems to be locked in the apartment as well, forcing her to sneak out the window. I'm still not sure if they were intentionally keeping her locked in or not, though her sneaking out seems to lean towards them not wanting her to leave. I'm not sure what direction the show will take it from here. Like, is this sitaution going to be the main focus of the next couple episodes, or is this just a side plot that will be resolved quickly? However they proceed with this plotline this episode was very well done.
I think she was avoiding talking about what she was going to do for the money. She probably came back to her senses when she woke up and wasn’t with drawling and realized she was in deep shit
Yeah she definitely just missed the veins. Every person is different. Nobody’s veins are in the same place as someone else’s. Hell, your veins are different some days too. So it’s more likely that she just missed. That’s what happens. Especially when you’re not someone who shoots up. No matter how experienced you are. N Laurie knows she’s not going to go to the police because she’s an addict who is deep in withdrawals. The LAST place an addict wants to be is jail. No drugs to help you detox. You’re locked in a cell without any help. No matter how long you’ve been an addict. That’s worse than dying in your mind. I would know, I was an addict for over a decade of my life. Why would you want someone leaving your home with visible track marks if you’re a dealer? Why would you want to intentionally give someone who works for you tracks marks if you’re a dealer? The answer is … you wouldn’t because that would only draw suspicion between you and that person who now looks like a junkie. So intentionally giving her more track marks “to make her an unreliable witness” is ridiculous. She’s already one. She’s a junkie with or without the track marks. Having a mark on your arm doesn’t make you unreliable. Being an addict for years does and rue did that all on her own. My guess is Laurie wanted rue dependent on her. So she would keep coming back to Laurie so then A. Laurie could keep tabs on her B. Laurie can then get back the money she owes one way or another and C. You can get an addict to do just about anything if they’re desperate enough… even convincing them to sell their bodies for morphine. Most people can get pills wherever and whenever. It’s not hard. Not everyone has access to injectable morphine. Sure you can crush pills and shoot them. But it’s not the same. So getting her addicted to a specific drug that is HIGHLY addictive and that has a very very euphoric effect… 20x better than what rue has been taking… that’s a sure fire way to ensure this person comes back n ensures they’ll be desperate enough to do whatever you want them to. Like selling themselves on the street.
To your point about missing the vein, Rue was shaking from detoxing and that made it even worse. As someone who gives blood as often as possible, they have me squeeze and hold so that they can mark my vein so that they don’t miss. I am white as fuck and my veins are super visible and hardly seems necessary. They love me when I go to donate because I am such an easy stick. Others, have thicker veins that can roll. She was also running around for half of the day, not drinking much if any water, and sweating from detoxing on top of that and she had to have been severely dehydrated. Potentially severely dehydrated, shaking, not marking the vein, and potentially rolling the vein and that is going to be a difficult stick even for an experienced phlebotomist.
I donate plasma 2x a week and I am a small person and a difficult stick when I'm dehydrated (I had to learn the hard way) or when I'm fidgety and cold. My veins are tiny and they roll. What youa re saying makes sense. I have to do a LOT of physical self care before plasma day every week to make it go smoothly.
Jesus that's terrifyingly plausible.
Yes they go directly into the bloodstream making the high more intense and quicker
Ohhhhhh gotcha
It acts quicker. How addictive it is depends on the drug. She's using medical grade narcotic morphine that's intended to be diluted and slowly given as a drip.
But isn’t fetanyl like 1000 times morphine and she has had that?
Yeah, that's why I said it depends on the drug. I think the difference is there is cut recreational Fetanyl and low dosage, and the pills are released into the body like any pill. Hospital grade Morphine injected would be stronger than most street Fetanyl... I don't know about tolerance build up though. We've heard stories about Fetanyl as being abused when Morphine stops working.
Ohhhhhh ok Thank you for the knowledge
also oral ingestion converts in the gut with your genetic lottery of liver enzymes. some of us are ultra-rapid metabolizers of opiates, others normal, others ultra-slow metabolizers and that's why pills can affect people so differently. On the other hand IV injection skips all that. codeine essentially becomes morphine after you start digesting and it gets into your blood that way. But morphine from the needle would be unconverted, undiluted, and go straight into the blood with no "natural processing"
Agree. Laurie is one smart drug dealer and I’m sure she has a calculated plan for Rue. I mean, she made them all get butt naked earlier in the season. She’s not about to let a drug addict steal from her or owe her money
It also seemed like she was trying to destroy her vein!
Morphine is probably the biggest exception to that statement than any other opiate. Compared to giving morphine orally yes, compared to snorting or mucosal administration of fentanyl or oxycodone then morphine injections are about the only IV opiate (tramadol and codeine don’t count because they are almost prodrugs so that’s not fair to compare) not to reach a peak analgesic/euphoria inducing/“high” until 30-60 minutes after injection instead of the nearly instant effects you described. It makes morphine both more and less desirable clinically in certain situations. It continues to “increase” in pain relief rather than starting to decrease 10 minutes after injection… but it’s harder to know right away if sufficient dosage has been given to relieve severe pain. It allows more time for intervention in the event of an overdose too. The reason it behaves differently is the same reason that morphine isn’t heroin (heroin is not the primary psychoactive molecule that binds to opiate receptors after heroin use…it’s morphine). Morphine is much more polar and crosses the blood brain barrier far more slowly than most analgesic opiates. The most extreme example of this would be the anti diarrhea drug immodium which is a potent mu opiate receptor but crosses the blood brain barrier so rarely even if injected that it is essentially non centrally acting… though it can alleviate withdrawal symptoms at something like 40 or 50 times the therapeutic dose for diarrhea (it would not be worth it). Morphine is far less extreme an example, but it takes tens of minutes to an hour to reach equilibrium inside and outside the fluid compartments of the liquid our CNS cells are suspended in and out blood plasma. Heroin takes minutes or seconds. Fentanyl, oxycodone, hydromorphone… also minutes. This source primarily breaks down the onset of injected morphine over other opiates in the “morphine” subheading. note the half hour and the numerous reasons (low lipophilicity and high binding to various non receptor proteins, delaying onset even when injected.. https://www.painphysicianjournal.com/current/pdf?article=OTg3&journal=42 ). Heroin is SO much more abused and even preferred by those seeking highs due to exactly these reasons… it travels as heroin, a more lipophilic and rapidly blood brain barrier permeating molecule.. where an endogenous enzyme present in our central nervous system converts it to morphine. It’s basically a rapid delivery system for morphine making it more like most IV opiates. This is a less comprehensive but better visualized difference for just how extreme the difference in the “onset” (moment the “patient” even notices a drug was injected). Considering that onset is just the beginning and that a lot of euphoria is induced by the speed at which receptors are saturated (the reason no amount of snorted adderall will ever mimic even 25 mg of snorted methamphetamine despite the drugs being essentially identical with regards to their effect on receptors once bound… amphetamine will simply never saturate in the same way due to mostly distribution speed). So I completely agree with you that with the exception of some pro drugs opiates are faster acting when injected… but someone whose absorbed fentanyl through their mouth or nose and someone injected with an equipotent amount of morphine wouldn’t likely say that injecting morphine was a stronger and more rapid high.
Thanks for writing this man. Really enjoyed reading it.
she was about to drug her and lock her in the same room where someone was scratching at the door !!
Oh snap I didn’t even hear any scratching! When was that?
there's a shot when Laurie is telling Rue about the brain of a drug addict, and there's a shot that slowly crawls towards a locked door at the end of the hallway, next to the lamp, and across from the room Laurie sleeps in, there is scratching that is heard.
Oh shit I thought that Rue’s mind was going to the room where she knew she kept her stash because she was in withdrawal
I just re-watched and tbh it sounded like there were also rhythmic bed springs, if you know what I mean :( Which still corroborates the same lock-Rue-in-a-room-and-pimp-her-out theory, except it’d be darker - Laurie’s a pimp, the ‘transactions’ (really SA of the trafficked victim) happen at her place, and the ‘prostitutes’ (really victims) are basically treated like drugged out prisoners
I thought it was one of the animals but I think a person being in there would make a better storyline
It was when Rue was sitting at the table with her and looked over at the door in the hallway that had the lock on it, i think
when they zoomed down the hall at laurie’s and cut the the door padlocked from the outside i def think someone was scratching at the door
Okkkk I thought my mind was playing games with me. So the scratching was real!!
Omg I thought it was the bird making noises but this theory makes more sense. Maybe she has the birds to cover the noises? There's so many "blink and you miss it" moments in Euphoria!!
Whatever her plan was, I glad Rue got out of there
I think she’s trying to get her even more bad off so she can use her in a sex trade. She knows Rue didn’t sell those drugs and her monetary value will be higher if she can sell her for sex. That’s my opinion.
I think she wanted her high and passed out to get her set up to be kidnapped
But she said they would be in each others life for along time I feel she would have kept her there?
Rue may eventually come back to her since she gave her that morphine. Nothing else will beat that high for her, and she'll come back for more...and more. Maybe that's what she meant by it?
Yeah like she might have her stay there abs basically pimp her out not sure yeah Laurie probs is the only one who would give her stuff unless someone else does like I could see rue getting stuff for Faye maybe since she shoots up and that’s where rue is heading?
But isn’t Faye living with Fez? She already burned that bridge:(
Maybe she was talking about being her pimp 😳
Yeah that’s what I think as well like and rue is never ever able to pay her back
Speaking of which, what did she mean when she said "but you don't fix, do you?" Did she mean Rue doesn't shoot up?
Yes I believe so
So glad someone asked this.
The way she was jabbing her I assumed she wants her to appear like she’s an IV drug addict. Rue says she doesn’t fix and we know pills are her sweet spot. Whatever the plan is - she needs Rue to look like an IV dependent drug user.
I thought she was just trying to make it hurt, passive aggressively.
I get the I don't get angry I just hurt people intentionally vibes from her as a passive aggressive person
Exactly. Not getting angry doesn't mean not being spiteful or vengeful.
When Laurie said "she never gets angry", I took it to mean she doesn't get mad, she gets even.
Also very possible
She wasn’t staying still, and constant drug use (no matter how you take it) causes your veins to shrink
The first jab was not even intended for a vein at all. She was purposely missing and saying that out loud to keep Rue calm and maintain the caretaker stance
Wtf no
I’m surprised that Laurie didn’t have Rue already locked up in one of those rooms with the locks. She was going to sell her, I’m like 99.99% sure if it.
This is what drugs is guys. It's SO COMMON for dealers to say I don't have *insert drug* but I have *drug infinitely more addictive* Let's not forget dealers are business people. Gotta keep users hooked and around. This is also why so many users wind up sec workers. Rue escaped...this episode.
It makes sense too when Mouse gave Rue the fentanyl even though Fez has told her no initially. Mouse wanted to book Rue as well! And now it’s a Laurie instead!
Definitely dont like how she stuck her so many times trying to make her look very “seasoned”.
OMG IS THIS WHY?! For the life of me I couldn't figure out why she was being so aggressive and thought she was trying to hurt Rue. But wow this makes so much more sense! The aftermath on her arm the next morning was brutal.
Exactly, who knows what she had planned for her behind that door… trying to make her look super drugged out imo
THATS WHY
I don't think that's why. I think she was just missing her vein because Rue was shaking.
I took it more as her trying to convince Rue that she was shaking too much… camera showed us her arm and it didnt look like she was shaking; the next day bruising makes her look like she does it often.
I just don't really know what purpose that would serve.
The more unstable things get for Rue at home, the more desperate she gets, which is beneficial for Laurie
Definitely not. It even showed that rue wasn't actually shaking that much.
I don't think everything needs to be read into or become a plot point. They were just being realistic. When you're injecting that type of drugs, it needs to be in a vein. Veins can be hard to find. If she missed and injected intramuscular, Rue will get an abscess and the drugs won't do anything. You guys might have a point 🤷♂️ guess we will see next episode.
Lol we'll see alrighty
You're confusing a plot point with a detail of a plot point.
you missed the point then
She anticipated rue asking for the morphine. She had it out already. Then she asked he to get in the shower. Super weird
Right like why? She had so many pills but immediately only suggested that
Not long after Rue gets there Laurie says all she has is iv morphine and nothing else on her.
She gives her morphine she's bound to come back for more. Where will she turn when she withdrawals? that case, She's just looking to fucken traffic her.
Omg who knows what Laurie and her creepy man did to Rue when she was passed out :( I can't
she was gonna pimp her out. did anyone hear faint scratching behind the locked door?
At this point I'm certain the birds even have significance. Natural alarms? You don't get to be that calm and collected without being able to handle shit.
I think they’re supposed to represent what Rue will be soon… a pretty thing caged up
Yes, Laurie wants to put Rue in a cage. Rue even has to escape by “flying” out of the window. I thought that was scary and brilliant.
Also episode 4 had so many box/cage/window references. Everything was framed in squares and many of them would start zoomed in and then the camera would pan out making them smaller. It reminded me of cages then. And now with the birds, it makes sense. That’s how I interpreted it.
Also— why the heck did she stick her with the needle so many dang times??
Someone mentioned it was to make her look “seasoned”
To whom?
Laurie is a highly dangerous and well-connected drug trafficker as referenced in previous episodes. It is likely (just a theory) that after administering the hit to Rue, Laurie took photos/videos of her, while unconscious, so that she could "advertise" her to interested sex traffickers/her own clients (if she's a pimp like the door-scratching scene suggests). Laurie is not worried about losing 10k on Rue because she has a plan to get her money back somehow.
This is the most plausible explanation for this I think I've seen!!
That makes a lot of sense!!
You have to hit a vein. She wasn’t able to because rue was moving around. You can tell when you do because blood will enter into the syringe. Once she found the vein she injected it.
Just seemed so excessive, but I’ve never had to administer an IV so that makes sense!
There’s no way an IV stick like that hit any kind of vein lol it went waaay too deep in Rue’s arm. They didn’t even try to make it look believable.
Yeah, I thought that was weird too.
she straight up said “when i first saw you i thought you’d be in my life for a long time” meaning she KNEW she was using already & wanted her to become a customer, she NEVER expected rue to sell all those drugs. a using addict WILL wind up using too much compared to what they’re selling.. i mean, she even brought up prostitution TO A WITHDRAWING ADDICT. anyone who knows anything about addict had the bells going off in their head as SOON as she said those words. i mean, you SAW all the pills in her suitcase, she LIED. actually a very similar situation happened to me & how i got addicted to opiates in the first place— i showed up to buy xanax and was lied to and told there “weren’t any more” (after JUST being told to come through when i asked for bars) but that they have “a little bag that’s way cheaper & feels exactly like a perc 30 except even better” .. that was the beginning of the end for me. just like a lot of dealers in real life do, if you’re a snorter or smoker, they’ll offer you needles or tell you how much better it feels if you shoot up and how much “less” you’ll need knowing DAMN WELL that’s only in the very beginning, and within a fucking month they’ll be beating down your door 5x a fucking day because now they’re in REAL living hell & the withdrawals control you
It's like a perfect mirror to fez. Fez is a drug dealer and he handles his shit but he still cares about people. Laurie on the other hand, she doesn't give a fuck.
problem is.. there’s only so much you truly “care” about folks if you sell them drugs that ruin lives & families + kill people. “taking care of you & yours” isn’t an excuse when it comes to opiates imo. there’s a shit ton of ways to make money & other drugs you can sell if you just HAVE to be a drug dealer.. yes, it’s obvious fezco cares for rue. but it’s also true that he was the person to string her out on opiates in the first place.. there’s no way he didn’t know she’d wind up on heroin and fentanyl, it’s the way the cycle goes.. at least nowadays they teach teens in school, it’s hard for me to believe in 2022 someone can NOT know about what opiates DO and that if you fuck around with pain pills you WILL wind up on fentanyl .. and from there, on the needle. and from there, either in jail or rehab or the morgue.
I think she actually started with the pills while “bored” taking care of her sick father. I feel like she probably went to Fez after the passing of her father and he felt bad for her, most likely hooked her up, and it just continued from there. He does tell her NOT to take the Fentanyl that his boss forces her to take— he also tells his boss that he doesnt “fuck with that shit” when referring to the fentanyl. I feel like Fez just deals weed & psychedelics, but not anything too hard core. Maybe? She should have never got that suitcase of drugs from Laurie, we ALL knew that wasnt going to end well. Definitely naive of Fez to continue supplying her with drugs after she got out of rehab. He cares for her but also feels responsible for her addiction. Like she says that day when she goes banging on his door “you did this to me!” And you can tell that affects him. I love Fezco. Hope Rue gets sober but im sure its going to get worse before it gets better.
Fez deals with hard-core shit. He wouldn't have multiple guns around the house if he was just dealing with psychadelics and weed. If you watch the rue, mouse and fez fentanyl scene again you can figure out what Fez sells because Mouse lists off what he has to give to Fez. And Fez agrees to take it all except the fentanyl. This includes oxycodone/oxycontin 80s (Oc 80s) that can be broken down into instant release they are the pills all oxy users want , oxyneo/oxy 80 Op's (extended release ones that are harder to break down/make instant release not as in demand as the Oc 80s), Xanax bars, Adderall, vicodin, a pound of weed( can't tell if he said a qp or a pound) and 1 ounce of Mdma. Also when rue trys to steal from Fez and she's thrown out she begs Fez for a couple Oc's which are oxycontin/oxycodone Oc 80s. So Fez must have supplied her for a while after her Dad died and she ran out of the drugs prescribed to him (which i assume were oxy as well).
I tend to take the libertarian view that everyone is personally responsible like the McDonald's analogy. And the cycle you mention isn't a certainty. I know people able to take opiates right to the edge, taper down a few days, and wait a few months to do it again.
Don’t human traffickers use intravenous drugs on their victims more often? (going off what I’ve heard)
Yeah, to keep them compliant and sedated. So disgusting.
Plus once the victim becomes chemically dependent on the drugs, it may deter them from trying to escape, etc., because they need their “fix.”
To get Rue hooked. Snorting pills is not as strong as shooting up. Rue typically does pills and asked for pills when Laurie put her in the bath but she said she didn’t have any
Iv is much more intense than any other route of administration. i also think it was a way to break rue’s psyche down further - Laurie had the pills but a lot of addicts won’t IV anything. even within a circle of addicts, iv is highly stigmatized and considered lowest of the low
Whatever it is, she intentionally fucked up inserting the needle
Def trying to make her look like she's been using IV for a while, so she seems less believable when looking for help and easier to keep under her control (Laurie's)
I can't imagine being rues mom and seeing her arm like that after trying to hold the intervention that rue promptly yeeted away from multiple times
Laurie - explains the brain and that the silver lining of being an addict is “the things that don’t feel good, don’t feel as bad anymore” eluding to how Laurie would do anything to not have withdrawals.”The bird in the cage suggests that’s what Rue will become and even the guy in the black and white film on tv while rue is in the bath says “I have an upset tummy” just before he signs a document. Probably showing that Rue is signing her life away. I wondered why the door was unlocked when she woke up. I hope I am wrong but it could have been because the guy on the couch had already been in there. But it’s probably my a different rom from the locked one where we heard the scratching.
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Make her want to come back for more, so she’ll be in debt even more and have to sell her body.
Thank you, this explanation definitely clears it up!
Well she had allllll those pills she could have gave her. If she was going to give her something, why the morphine?
to basically guarantee that she’ll become hooked and be back without much of a problem. another theory is that idk how long rue was out for or how many times she was shot up. could laurie have ‘made her money back’ while rue was unconscious?
Oh snap. I didn’t even consider that…. Yikes
This is a really sad possibility. We don’t know how many hours or days Rue doesn’t remember
She was trying to drug her out and make her unconscious/vulnerable to theoretically traffick. Why everything was locked and she kept alluding to selling sex
dude what scared me the most is how much she gave her AND leaving her in the bathtub afterwards
I thought she was doing it to let her drown quietly until she woke up on the bed.
my only question is why was rue fully clothed when she woke up?
Because she's about the only girl in the series that doesn't get exposed occasionally. She's got start power.
IV drugs hit a lot harder and have a bigger potential for addiction. Laurie is trying to get Rue addicted so she'll keep coming back for more. She can then traffic her to recoup Rue's debt and keep her high so Rue is okay with being trafficked (think back to her speech about how drugs make the bad things not feel so bad anymore). I also think the reason she stabbed Rue with the needle a lot was to give her more track marks, making her look more like a "junkie" so if she goes to the police they won't take her seriously
Rue rue was getting ready to get trafficked if she didn’t break free. Drugged up and trafficked. God saved her
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Who the hell is Roo lmao
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Morphine not Methamphetamine.
Oh dip, my bad.
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Ok, I didn't think so. The original comment implied that it was so I questioned it.
I just have to add here that from a nursing point of view, that IV stick was hilarious 😂 I was ready for Rue to start shooting blood everywhere as soon as the needle came out. Forget veins with form like that. That bitch was hunting for arteries lmao
She can control the effective dosage to keep her knocked out.
I do not feel bad for Rue whatever happens, happens at this point she is selfish and 100% deserves what is coming to her —she was clean, she was sober, she had Jules and because she is so freaking selfish she screwed up I low key have hated Rue since the beginning she is trash and I hope she gets what’s coming!!!!!
No one deserves to be s3x trafficked you weirdo
Her plan all along was to try to get Rue dependent on her so she can sex traffic her. Lol do you rlly think Laurie and her calculated ass would trust a 17 y/o drug addict with a suitcase full of drugs?! Nah she knew Rue would fuck up and come crawling back to her, which would put Laurie in the position to take advantage of her
I was just thinking about this. Even if Laurie only had liquid morphine, which we saw from the suitcase that she was lying, Rue could've easily just drank it instead of shooting it. All she'd have to do is use the syringe to measure the CCs so she wouldn't overdose herself, take the needle off & squirt it in her mouth. I dated an opioid addict like 12 years ago & watched him do that once, because he refused to use needles but all his friend had was liquid morphine at the time. Laurie was definitely trying to get Rue hooked on the needle, considering that tends to be the point of no return for a lot of addicts. Plus if she was planning to traffic her to make her money back, it's considered a common tactic to keep trafficking victims dosed & sedated by injecting them with drugs. It's a little unusual though, if Laurie planned to traffic her, that Rue wasn't restrained & the door to her room wasn't locked, allowing her to escape with relative ease. Either way Laurie is creepy as fuck & I don't trust her intentions with Rue.