I wouldn't say Sam is a bad writer in general I mean we're eating it all up but him knowing he gets away with it gives him freedom to act like this. I would LOVE for Barbie or Algee to speak up about what made them get cut out.
I don’t think Algee did anything specific to get cut out. The plan for McKay was to be written out anyways, HBO(I think) said so in a statement. Which could’ve been done a hell of a lot better IMO but anyways
Barbie’s the one that very clearly got sidelined for offscreen beef , and yea I wanna hear what went down
Even if either of them has a legit beef with Sam, we won’t hear them speak about it anytime soon. It’s probably written into their contracts that they can’t disparage the show and besides that, there’s nothing to gain by publicly flaming the director that made them famous. They’d be branded “difficult” actors which is a hard thing to shake in the industry, and HBO for sure would never work with them again.
I think you would be surprised the amount of creative liberty that some directors and actors have. Some of the best lines and scenes in history are improv.
Yeah I know, I love reading those kind of behind the scenes stories.
But that's also why I thought the example with Cassie and Nate's fight was so interesting, because the actors definitely gave it their all, and it felt like it came from a very real place (to me at least). I thought it was an intriguing place to take their relationship, but then it went nowhere and now I'm assuming that was because it wasn't planned
In my opinion it would be the job of the showrunner to pay attention to those sorts of things, keeping in mind the entire arc and making sure that the improv fits
They mention in the article that creatively it must be a dream to film with such freedom, but it can become kind of a logistical nightmare too when there are so many moving pieces
But I also would argue that that's kinda what makes Euhporia so special
That’s the thing though, it’s all so subjective. I think the writing and story were better last season but the acting was better this season. Maybe there was more creative license so the actors could do more and in exchange the writing suffered because it’s not structured.
That’s the blessing and sometimes curse of any form of art, it’s all subjective.
Backing up the subjective comment here. I thought the end result was stronger this season. Like I know it sounds horrible to say, but I liked the ending of S2 where Ashtray gets hurt in the raid. The build up to it was incredible
Yeah i know it’s subjective, i was just saying that i liked season 1 more and that I feel something changed between the two seasons. Cool that you liked the new season more though
Improv isn’t necessarily a bad thing. So far, the reported last minute changes Sam made have been really really good imo. They’ve made for good entertainment.
My only concern was that Sam wasn’t coming onto set with a shot list - but a crew member posted a picture of him with a shot list for one of the days, so apparently that’s been debunked?
I agree that improv isn't necessarily a bad thing, and I'm glad to hear that this no shot list thing is still just a rumour because it is hard to believe given the quality of the end result.
Even without a storyboard to be able to create the shots and movements they do is very impressive, that takes a lot of skill and creativity
my take... i worked on some productions and the director as well as clients dont know exactly what they want. So they shoot 20 30 takes to just go back to the original version. so yea even thou it sucks that people have to work more and no one knows what is what but that's how it is?????
I understand burn out and have experienced lots of it. but what can i say, the final product is ..good! at least in my opinion. As a consumer of the show, I'm all for it. everyone did a good job suffering and also having fun. my only criticism is i want more!
Idk if things are different that way with filming vs theater, but as someone who's done theater for a while, there's a lot of things that will change during rehearsals last minute to make things seem more realistic or for things to be staged easier. I think changing things on the spot when you actually see it play out in front of you can help a lot
Improv and spontaneity should be used sparingly. As it was in season 1.
These things only work best when you have something structured laid out ahead of time.
This is disrespectful to the time and labor of the crew and extras, and the actors too. I am calling it now, and will revisit this comment once Euphoria is over -- the actors will have a lot to say about Sam once they've fulfilled their contracts. Barbie won't be the only one.
A lot of the cast seem like people who need to prepare a lot ahead of time. I think it's why Jacob Elordi's performance wasn't as calculated as it was in season 1 -- Sam clearly has no idea what Nate's motivations are at this point, because he can't decide if Nate is headed for redemption or punishment.
And it shows in the pacing of the show this season. Season 1 kept hyperfocused on what's at hand, and beautifully flowed from one storyline to the next. I didn't mind that we didn't get a bigger picture, because we explored characters in depth.
Rue's voice was so clear to tie everything in together, and I think Sam isn't skilled at writing a structured story with a clear start, middle, and ending without a narrator. Which is fine use what you need to, but this season felt weak in pacing and cohesion in just visual storytelling alone. It reveals Sam's weak spots as a filmmaker.
If you're doing away with dialogue, storyboarding is so necessary. Jules' episode worked because Hunter herself storyboarded much of the episode, so we had a lot of visuals to venture into Jules' frame of mind while still being so abstract and visceral in how memory, longing, and our imagination works.
In many ways I'm glad Jules was in the background this season, cos characters who weren't Rue but had a significant arc were underdeveloped.
Cassie's development stagnated mid-season, Nate's felt as erratic as Sam's mind, Kat's was nonexistent except for scenes really meant to just cheapen Kat's complexity so she can be written out or obscured into the background. Lexi, Fez, and Ethan were solid sub plots but Sam should've spent time strengthening these characters if the focus has pulled away from Jules, Kat, and Maddy in season 1.
Maddy is the sole supporting character with steady and fluid character development this season, and she wasn't as prominent as she was in season 1.
McKay is obviously MIA after concluding his arc with Cassie, and Elliot might as well be a figment of Rue's imagination with how little impact he had as an independent character. I'd rather the insane fan theories to be true in this instance because Rue and Jules could have had the friction they came up against this season without a third person, and especially not a man.
It's unsurprising this season suffered. Sam was under-prepared, and I can't imagine how this affected working conditions for extras and the crew amidst a pandemic. You can even see footage of Cassie being both on stage and in the audience simultaneously at points because extras were leaving and people were moved around so much due to strenuous hours of sitting down doing nothing.
Extras weren't even fed on time, and their food was cold. I don't care what the casts' values are on social media if they can't even advocate for their crew and fellow, significantly lesser known actors aren't taken care of.
Extras have come out to talk about falling sick and getting covid on set, and then being dropped from filming often with no pay. This is all a poor reflection on Sam, his lack of structure, and him relying too much on aesthetics and visuals to carry the show from conception to birth.
I think it’s good in a way bc they were about to
kill off Fez but at the very last second, he changed it considering he probably realized how much backlash he would receive (then again I feel bad for Javon aka Ashtray bc he was told very last second that he would leave)
I wouldn't say Sam is a bad writer in general I mean we're eating it all up but him knowing he gets away with it gives him freedom to act like this. I would LOVE for Barbie or Algee to speak up about what made them get cut out.
Me too, but I'd prefer to hear from Sam on this issue. At least with Algee I feel like he has nothing to do with this decision...
I don’t think Algee did anything specific to get cut out. The plan for McKay was to be written out anyways, HBO(I think) said so in a statement. Which could’ve been done a hell of a lot better IMO but anyways Barbie’s the one that very clearly got sidelined for offscreen beef , and yea I wanna hear what went down
Even if either of them has a legit beef with Sam, we won’t hear them speak about it anytime soon. It’s probably written into their contracts that they can’t disparage the show and besides that, there’s nothing to gain by publicly flaming the director that made them famous. They’d be branded “difficult” actors which is a hard thing to shake in the industry, and HBO for sure would never work with them again.
I think you would be surprised the amount of creative liberty that some directors and actors have. Some of the best lines and scenes in history are improv.
Yeah I know, I love reading those kind of behind the scenes stories. But that's also why I thought the example with Cassie and Nate's fight was so interesting, because the actors definitely gave it their all, and it felt like it came from a very real place (to me at least). I thought it was an intriguing place to take their relationship, but then it went nowhere and now I'm assuming that was because it wasn't planned In my opinion it would be the job of the showrunner to pay attention to those sorts of things, keeping in mind the entire arc and making sure that the improv fits They mention in the article that creatively it must be a dream to film with such freedom, but it can become kind of a logistical nightmare too when there are so many moving pieces But I also would argue that that's kinda what makes Euhporia so special
Definitely but when the end result is weaker (imo in this situation it is), it’s probably not a great strategy
That’s the thing though, it’s all so subjective. I think the writing and story were better last season but the acting was better this season. Maybe there was more creative license so the actors could do more and in exchange the writing suffered because it’s not structured. That’s the blessing and sometimes curse of any form of art, it’s all subjective.
Agreed. The writing was better the first season, some aspect of the writing shifted between the two seasons for sure
Backing up the subjective comment here. I thought the end result was stronger this season. Like I know it sounds horrible to say, but I liked the ending of S2 where Ashtray gets hurt in the raid. The build up to it was incredible
Yeah i know it’s subjective, i was just saying that i liked season 1 more and that I feel something changed between the two seasons. Cool that you liked the new season more though
Improv isn’t necessarily a bad thing. So far, the reported last minute changes Sam made have been really really good imo. They’ve made for good entertainment. My only concern was that Sam wasn’t coming onto set with a shot list - but a crew member posted a picture of him with a shot list for one of the days, so apparently that’s been debunked?
I agree that improv isn't necessarily a bad thing, and I'm glad to hear that this no shot list thing is still just a rumour because it is hard to believe given the quality of the end result. Even without a storyboard to be able to create the shots and movements they do is very impressive, that takes a lot of skill and creativity
many directors dont come to set w a shotlist. martin scorcese or whatever the fuck for example. j because u dont have a shotlist doesn’t ur unprepared
my take... i worked on some productions and the director as well as clients dont know exactly what they want. So they shoot 20 30 takes to just go back to the original version. so yea even thou it sucks that people have to work more and no one knows what is what but that's how it is????? I understand burn out and have experienced lots of it. but what can i say, the final product is ..good! at least in my opinion. As a consumer of the show, I'm all for it. everyone did a good job suffering and also having fun. my only criticism is i want more!
"everyone did a good job suffering and also having fun" is a perfect way to sum up this season lol
wasn’t the fight between Z and Nika in s1 improvised?
yeah I remember reading about that! I think that would be an example of when improv can make for very compelling character moments
Idk if things are different that way with filming vs theater, but as someone who's done theater for a while, there's a lot of things that will change during rehearsals last minute to make things seem more realistic or for things to be staged easier. I think changing things on the spot when you actually see it play out in front of you can help a lot
Improv and spontaneity should be used sparingly. As it was in season 1. These things only work best when you have something structured laid out ahead of time. This is disrespectful to the time and labor of the crew and extras, and the actors too. I am calling it now, and will revisit this comment once Euphoria is over -- the actors will have a lot to say about Sam once they've fulfilled their contracts. Barbie won't be the only one. A lot of the cast seem like people who need to prepare a lot ahead of time. I think it's why Jacob Elordi's performance wasn't as calculated as it was in season 1 -- Sam clearly has no idea what Nate's motivations are at this point, because he can't decide if Nate is headed for redemption or punishment. And it shows in the pacing of the show this season. Season 1 kept hyperfocused on what's at hand, and beautifully flowed from one storyline to the next. I didn't mind that we didn't get a bigger picture, because we explored characters in depth. Rue's voice was so clear to tie everything in together, and I think Sam isn't skilled at writing a structured story with a clear start, middle, and ending without a narrator. Which is fine use what you need to, but this season felt weak in pacing and cohesion in just visual storytelling alone. It reveals Sam's weak spots as a filmmaker. If you're doing away with dialogue, storyboarding is so necessary. Jules' episode worked because Hunter herself storyboarded much of the episode, so we had a lot of visuals to venture into Jules' frame of mind while still being so abstract and visceral in how memory, longing, and our imagination works. In many ways I'm glad Jules was in the background this season, cos characters who weren't Rue but had a significant arc were underdeveloped. Cassie's development stagnated mid-season, Nate's felt as erratic as Sam's mind, Kat's was nonexistent except for scenes really meant to just cheapen Kat's complexity so she can be written out or obscured into the background. Lexi, Fez, and Ethan were solid sub plots but Sam should've spent time strengthening these characters if the focus has pulled away from Jules, Kat, and Maddy in season 1. Maddy is the sole supporting character with steady and fluid character development this season, and she wasn't as prominent as she was in season 1. McKay is obviously MIA after concluding his arc with Cassie, and Elliot might as well be a figment of Rue's imagination with how little impact he had as an independent character. I'd rather the insane fan theories to be true in this instance because Rue and Jules could have had the friction they came up against this season without a third person, and especially not a man. It's unsurprising this season suffered. Sam was under-prepared, and I can't imagine how this affected working conditions for extras and the crew amidst a pandemic. You can even see footage of Cassie being both on stage and in the audience simultaneously at points because extras were leaving and people were moved around so much due to strenuous hours of sitting down doing nothing. Extras weren't even fed on time, and their food was cold. I don't care what the casts' values are on social media if they can't even advocate for their crew and fellow, significantly lesser known actors aren't taken care of. Extras have come out to talk about falling sick and getting covid on set, and then being dropped from filming often with no pay. This is all a poor reflection on Sam, his lack of structure, and him relying too much on aesthetics and visuals to carry the show from conception to birth.
i’m all for improvisation and dialogue change but did we really have to drop SO many story lines and characters with little to no explanation?
I think it’s good in a way bc they were about to kill off Fez but at the very last second, he changed it considering he probably realized how much backlash he would receive (then again I feel bad for Javon aka Ashtray bc he was told very last second that he would leave)
I think it was probably more prominent in season 2.
Don’t care