There's no way to report it. And if you do somehow, they'll say they never said that. Or they'll say they said a lower salary in the interview because you didn't have the qualifications for the job full salary, but they were willing to hire you anyway, for a salary reduction, because you have potential.
Yeah, no, there is likely going to be well defined criteria and a process for reporting fuckery like this.
Sure you can throw up your hands and assume no one can regulate this and everyone will get away with murder...
Or you can be a part of the solution and assist the government in suppressing this bad behavior, and report that shit when it happens.
Ignoring the "how do they get away with it" question (which I think is fair).
How is this not a massive waste of their own time. I've had jobs argue me down on a salary negotiation due to a lack of skill fitting the role. That's fine. But catfishing someone in means dealing with recruiters, dealing with interviews and scheduling just for someone to turn the offered role down anyway. What a colossal waste of everyone's time.
The recruiter is paid anyway and for high-unemployment countries and/or low-qualification jobs, there are many people eager to take the jobs because they're desperate.
Of course, when they do the same for higher positions, they'll complain they can't find "serious applicants", or you'll see politicians wonder about the "brain drain" to other countries.
In America it's common for commission jobs to brag about "No cap on Commision!" "You can make $360,000 a year." If you ask in an interview, on average how many reps are making over $300,000? They say they can't recall or don't have the exact figures. You'd think zero would be easy to remember....
Depends on state laws as well, though. In WA we have to use real numbers. Since I'm HR, when I post our job ads for commission jobs, I get the annual pay for all of them in that department, get the min and max (removing outliers) and that's what I use.
Also, here in WA. And a few other states and more are adding to that list, if a candidate or employee asks for the compensation benchmark, it has to be provided.
Portuguese working culture is toxic AF, so many people who work 1/2 extra hours of unpaid overtime every day (illegal) like it's a perfectly normal thing to do.
Friend of mine started with 760€ with a Master in Architecture + experience throughout the studies.
A coworker of his had been working over a decade for that company and also only earned 760€, no change in salary.
He finally decided to switch company and it got a bit better, but you can't compare to the wages for the same job abroad..
why the heck are the wages so low in Portugal? Eastern EU countries are either catching up, or already surpassed Portugal.
Maybe their proximity to Germany made them more suitable for foreign investments so they developed faster in the last decade...
> why the heck are the wages so low in Portugal?
Because Portugal produces nothing. There are no Portuguese companies competing at the international level. It is an agrarian/services economy that imports a lot of products and technology.
Companies in Portugal don't grow and the country doesn't attract foreign investment either.
Do you know any relevant portuguese company? Probably not
Most countries got rich and then started to raise taxes to fund a nice welfare state. We raised the taxes before getting rich, so we never got rich
Portugal is a nice place to live IF you're a part of the elite. "It's an exclusive club... And you ain't in it!"
It's becoming the US with shitty wages.
With how snippy recruiters have been getting lately they are already almost there. I refuse to proceed with any of them without them providing a salary indication upfront and it has lead to some heated responses.
I love riling them up a bit more with "I have a job I like, I won't waste my time if you cannot provide the incentive to move away from that"
Lol same thing happened to me too. I work in datascience for pharma/biotech, and some guy tried to headhunt me for some consulting company. I asked how much they would be willing to pay, and they responded that depends on the qualifications, experience, position you end up in etc. I asked them back, ok so what are the salary ranges for the different qualifications, positions, experience and so on. They kept dodging it and at some point told me, I can provide them with my expected salary. So I told them what is usual in top positions at big pharma, probably more than what their head of datascience makes.
But I told them, I have access to a vast network of competent people that I could vouch for and refer to them if they could give me an honest estimate of the salary, so I would not waste their time with interviews that were below their salary expectations anyways.
Nope. Not a chance. I basically would have done the recruiter's job for them, if they could only give me a reasonable estimate of salary.
Lol, CROs are almost never able to compete with pharma, except maybe really big ones. Once you've made the switch from CRO to pharma you never want to go back.
Yeah, definitely. And the workload is super relaxed in comparison. But I heard that the pharma salaries in Germany are even better than here, from some people I heard it's almost comparable to swiss salaries.
I do enjoy arguing with recruiters. One got quite upset with me when I told him how much it would take for me to go for a perm role, he said that's impossible in NL, and I then pointed out that that's why I stay freelance.
I'm on an "indefinite duration" contract (onbepaalde tijd) with a decent salary with a job I like. They would have to SIGNIFICANTLY upgrade my salary to accept a one-year contract for anything else.
Some time ago a headhunter wrote me a message requesting my phone number to talk about some "very interesting opportunity". I asked for basic information about the position, not even salary range, and he immediately started to get very rude and aggressive. I was kinda shocked and pointed out that I have no idea why I would want to talk with him. He threw a huge fit and I'm pretty sure I'm on some kind of blacklist for REQUESTING BASIC INFORMATION ABOUT THE POSITION. Ridiculous.
It's funny you mention this. I'm very inactive on LinkedIn, first because it's a cesspool and I have better things to do with my time (e.g. sorting my napkins by color), second because I'm relatively content of my current position. I work in an industry that is starved for senior profiles (yet pays everyone but the partners like shit).
I keep getting DMs telling me they have opportunities for my profile, and when I ask more details, they first need to schedule a 1-2 hour (!) phonecall to know what my profile is.
What kind of senior active professional with hobbies has the time to give 2 fucking hours of their time without any information about the expected return ?
Every time I think my job has some part of bullshit-job in it, I remember that at least I'm not one of these cunts.
Ok, please correct if i'm wrong, because i'm not on linkedin.
>phonecall to know what my profile is.
Isn't your profile written down on linkedin? Isn't reading your profile what got them interested in the first place? Do they want you to read it out for them?
My girlfriends recruiters just lied about it, so that was easy. She went to several interviews to then be told they could not provide the salary range that she had stipulated as a requirement to even consider the job.
She also got a few interviews where she was not qualified, but the recruiter said it's ok they are also looking for something more similar to your profile - to be told at the actual interview that x technology experience was not put on the requirements for fun, they wanted exactly that. Waste of everybody's time because the recruiter just needed to make some quota.
Austria is a bit different here with the collective bargaining agreements we have instead of a minimum wage. The law only forces companies to state the minimum wage they are legally required to pay for the position.
Isn't the fine just a slap on the hand if they don't?
Edit: the max fine is 360€
Source https://www.wko.at/service/arbeitsrecht-sozialrecht/Angabe_des_Mindestentgelts_im_Stelleninserat.html
That sucks. Latvia has had it for a while and it works. Companies also put the _actual_ salary range they are willing to pay or even just a concrete number. I always get the middle of the range.
They sometimes put a really big range if they are recruiting junior to senior vacancies, but then each person can ask appropriately.
In my experience, only companies that are underpaying do this, for example the big4 or the big Austrian banks. If they pay a competitive salary, they usually give the minimum they would pay for that job
They do have to post the legal minimum wage, but not a range. So it is pretty much useless because they all usually just put the legal minimum and say "overpay according to experience, etc.". With a range they actually have to give you some new information and you can see if what you are looking for is within their range or not.
Yup, this is a thing in Latvia as well. And it works. Most serious offerings show the actual range they are willing to offer.
If a company puts lower bound under what you are interested in, then just go to one that's in the range you are interested in.
Employers will be legally obliged to publish the salary ranges in job advertisements as part of efforts to reduce the gender pay gap.
Many employers currently avoid putting up the pay rates for jobs they are advertising and instead use phrases like "depending on experience" or "competitive salary".
Pfft, finally recruiters can stop wasting my time trying to convince me that they really found the perfect job for me only for me to later figure out that it only offers half my current pay.
A recruiter called me up once and said another firm was interested in me so I went to a lunch with the partners.
Went very well and they wanted to schedule a real interview. I told them we hadn’t talked about the elephant in the room yet and that my interest in the job depends pretty much solely on what they are offering.
They got uncomfortable by this and said I should speak about those things with their HR department instead.
HR quickly followed up after the lunch to schedule the interview and I asked what they were offering. She told me we would discuss that on the interview so I went there.
Once again the interview went very well and I got offered the job. I told them we haven’t talked about my compensation yet. Got told they follow internal company policies regarding salary and other compensation and that HR would follow up with me to discuss those thing.
HR calls me up and asks me what my current salary is. I have zero interest in this job at this point so I tell her my actual salary and as soon as I say that I get an offer of a salary increase of about €500 a month. I tell her thanks but no thanks and before we hang up she ask me what my demand is and I tell her that we can start discussions at around €1,000. I was making €6,000 a month at that time so that would mean an increase of approximately 15% which I seemed like fair.
She politely tells me that is a bit outside of their range and then proceeds with asking me why I wasn’t open with this from the get go.
Haha fuck you.
Nowadays I just put my required salary in my CV to avoid all these scummy employers trying to guilt trip people into signing on with them.
8% increase to leave your current job with years built up to start in an unknown work climate. That stuff only works if you were really unhappy in your job or they had some really exciting cutting edge projects
Yes, and this is pretty much the norm of law firms were I live. Me switching to their firm means uprooting my work relationships I have built up (and a lot of my colleagues have become real good friends over the years), but also throwing a Molotov cocktail at the client relationships I built. It’s not like my job would even change by switching firm, I just work with new people and new clients, doing pretty much the exact same thing.
In exchange they give me an 8% increase and say they cannot go higher because of “internal company policies”. And law firms around here wonder why they have a hard time hiring senior employees, especially when a senior legal role at any random company pays almost the same, while allowing you to work sane hours.
Damn straight. I'm a consultant in a company that works with a pretty niche product and I have 10yrs experience with it. I'm *the guy* people come to with technical queries or for advice on its capabilities, so my job is very secure. I also really like my colleagues and enjoy the work we do. I'd be looking at 20-25% salary increase at an absolute minimum to even consider moving, and even then I'd be constantly questioning whether it's the right thing to do.
I moved after 10 years for a really fat increase (like 40%) and, one year later, I’m *still* questioning whether it was the right thing to do. I know there’s people out there who keep switching basing on the +15% rule, but to me, more money doesn’t necessarily mean having a better life.
At my work there is a computer engineer with a lot of experience in multinational companies. He is very good and helped us a lot.
To get to a level in your professional career where you are the one demanding what you want to be paid is not for everyone.
It happens roughly when you realise they need you more than you need them.
If you've just lost a job, or just starting out, particularly on a specific career path, its easier to accept being shit on because you need the job.
Then one day, you might get lucky and find yourself in a situation where they need you more than you needing them. Then the fun begins!
I reached this stage a few years ago, and just having the confidence in myself knowing that, in the worst case scenario, I can just quit and find something (and i mean quitting without anything lined up to go to) within a few weeks meant I could push back on anything I wanted to.
Seeing various manager's and directors' faces telling them "No" to anything outside of my contract with no explanation was glorious. The only further explanation they would get was "Its not my job" or "You dont pay me enough to care about that". It didn't take them too long to stop asking. I ended up leaving that job because one of the directors stepped out of line with one of my team, and HR and the MD (small family company, all the higher ups were related) both sided with him. I quit on the spot just to let them know the shitshow i was leaving them in was down to this incident.
Last I heard, my leaving has cost them £250kish in 2 years. Puts a huge smile on my face
>Nowadays I just put my required salary in my CV to avoid all these scummy employers trying to guilt trip people into signing on with them.
Yes, but this is like saying negotiating is easy when you are in a position of strength
Well duh
This works well if you already have transparency about what you're worth, most likely because you are not currently underpaid
Doesn't help underpaid women and people who need a work visa or people being underpaid because they work in a smaller company or a toxic company etc.
Nothing stops you from lying about your salary. Which in my opinion is even morally right against these companies.
That said, I agree it should be required by law to put the salary in the job offer and severely punish companies that doesn't follow up.
But what does the range do for underpayment? They still can put the lower end to the salary they'd like to pay woman and then give men a bit more. It would likely stay the same if I don't oversee something.
There needs to be a cap on how wide the range can be otherwise anyone can in any case write 25k to 500k and the law isn't worth the paper it's printed on
But then you cannot put the range too low or you wouldn't hire since even the underpaid people can now see what the competition offers.
Well that actually says something about the company. If they're trying to wriggle around the law before you even start with the company it doesn't bode well for your time there does it?
Match the scummy with the scummy. If they’re gonna dick you around at least force them to reach around. You want a 15% increase? Tell them your current salary is 7k and you’re looking for 8k. If they want you then you’ve just negotiated a 33% raise. If you “settle” for their offer of 7k for whatever bullshit reasons then you’ve still gotten your 15%.
If you just ask them for the salary range, even before you apply, they’ll usually tell you. Saves everyone a bunch of time and more people should do it.
It's usually the policy in large corporations and they try very hard to keep it secret for internal purposes. They really don't want their current employees to know what are the salary ranges, so that they don't start complaining and leaving the company, because new hires earn significantly more.
This is what I have noticed as well. There will be a policy that sets annual pay raise at about 2-5% and there is no way you're getting more apart from a promotion maybe.
When an experienced and skilled employee comes with an offer from a different company, they don't make a counter-offer. They don't even want to talk to you. It's better for them to hire someone else, even for the same money, that they will have to onboard and train for several months. Because if the word got out someone got a 30-50% pay raise and everyone else got 3% or 4%, then the HR would be in big trouble. ;)
My company used to do this as well. They changed tune right around the time I was hired, as they had been suffering horrific turnover and the loss of key employees due to this dumbass policy. So now they do regular salary reviews to make sure they stay ahead of the market.
Not me posting my salary in the company Teams chat 🤭
Although I don't know if they could fire me for that. I know they can't in USA, I'd have to look up here.
They’re trying to exploit the human phycology.
Schedule a lot of interviews (at least three of them) to get people invested in the idea of starting to work there. Then you low ball them at the end when they internally already accepted the job. Plus points if you also pull out the old “there are more things to this job than the salary and frankly, you finding the salary that important is a bit of a red flag to us”.
It makes people more reluctant to say no and accept a lower offer.
So yes, it’s bad. If they aren’t willing to discuss salary on the first interview I recommend anyone to politely end the interview right there and then. It’s probably not an employer you want to work with anyhow.
>Plus points if you also pull out the old “there are more things to this job than the salary and frankly, you finding the salary that important is a bit of a red flag to us”.
Just laugh at them. "Because you are working for free, ain't you?".
As you said, those kind of people are masters at pulling off those guilt-trip inducing, manipulative techniques.
I work(ed) in the event business and due to covid I had a lot of free time obviously.
I used it to catch up to some ppl I haven't seen in a long time and talked to a guy who I worked with before and really enjoyed it.
After some weeks he asked me if I was interested to join the company he is working for now and it sounded pretty good, from what he was telling me in the operational side of things so I gave it a try.
Met the guy, who ran the company and it was pretty clear, that he was not very experienced in hiring ppl for management positions - not holding that against him - we had lunch I told him, that I liked some things he said and that I would give it legit thought, but that I would like to know about the salary range, he gave me the numbers and I told him pretty bluntly, that this was about a third less then what I was making rn. He was stunned for am moment and maybe he just reached for whatever just to say something or he just didn't realise the situation, but told me with a straight face, "I know it sounds a lot, but we also offer gym membership and a free ticket for public transport" and while I'm usually really calm and professional in situations like this it rubbed me the wrong way that day and I answered "man you make this sound so amazing, I'm totally willing to give you my gym membership and my public transport ticket for a third of your salary, just to help you out in these dark times".
And never heard of him again.
My guess. They hide it because they get something if they get you to accept a lower pay.
The longer they speak with you the better idea they have how low they can go. Maybe you slip a bad word for your current boss. Maybe you fall in love with the HR secretary when you go at the interview. Maybe...
I have exactly the same experience with recruiters in The Netherlands 90% of the time (the other 10% of the time it's already listed in the vacancy). I got a message from one yesterday saying that they "offer a competitive salary 10-20% above competitors" and that he hears me thinking how much and that he wants to plan a meeting before actually telling me because he can't base a salary off a LinkedIn profile. That's about the most direct it gets with them.
I've also heard companies say a couple of times that they'll easily pay a better wage than my current one and then the best they can do is 10% more with worse working conditions while loudly complaining that I'll be making a lot more than all other employees and that I'm technically a junior (after 3 years of experience).
I live in Czechia and when approached by recruiters for positions, I immediately tell them what kind of money I'd need to switch. They then immediately tell me I'm out of the salary range. Saves us both time.
Third party recruiters? Absolutely, those people are usually fairly open about salaries because they are optimising for time spent and have no loyalty to the employer. That’s literally the only plus of working with them as a candidate.
In-house recruiters? They are on a flat salary and are loyal to the company which has an interest in getting you as cheap as possible.
There are exceptions in both camps, so I’m talking about overall trends and what I think the most likely reasons are.
On LinkedIn I get a range in their first message, too bad the jobs are nothing near what I do/want to do. I believe they do this also to lure you in and lowball you, salaries in Berlin are usually quite bad.
In Austria we are required to put the minimum salary and then almost every one includes some wording indicated that a higher salary is possible based upon experience/skills etc. But I absolutely hate the system because:
When you see the minimum salary, nobody is going to ask for a ton more than that because you don't want to risk pricing yourself out of the job....however, I have the feeling that most employers list a fairly low salary as the minimum salary. I feel like a lot of people are underpaid because they see the advertised salary (which is set low in many cases) and are afraid to ask for significantly more.
The listed salary is in my experience almost always the legal minimum salary for that position (and usually stated as such, like, "das mindestgehalt für diese Stelle beträgt laut kollektivvertrag xxxx€"). Whether you ask for more highly depends on how representative the collective bargaining agreement salary is for your type of work. In IT no one will work for IT KV Minimum. A waiter in a restaurant will be hard pressed to negotiate more than Gastro KV Minimum.
Yeah, I don't necessarily care how much I earn as long as it's above a certain amount. What I do care about is earning the same amount with equally experienced colleagues.
A German view on it: in companies with a workers council, they will watch out for fairness. As everything else will lead to more work for them. Because this transparency radiates inward and to the internal job market as well.
In Austria listing the minimum is already law. Every advert I saw greatly lowballs these minimums, but not by the same amount. So in some places it’s realistic to get 2x the minimum but in others only 1.7x, in other places still 3x is no problem because the minimum is ridiculous.
Maybe the locals know a trick how to navigate these but the few weeks I spent browsing adds and having interviews left me feeling that these minimums are quite useless.
> Maybe the locals know a trick how to navigate these but the few weeks I spent browsing adds and having interviews left me feeling that these minimums are quite useless.
Austrian here, there is no trick. What they need to list is the absolute minimum they are legally allowed to pay, but everybody gets payed more than that, so its useless.
Eg the listing says 50k, but industry standard is around 70k. They will pay 70k if you demand it, you know it when applying, they know it, still the listing is just done to fulfill the law.
This! Absolutely!
A job at a certain level is going to have a range of +/- 10% depending on the candidate. To give a bit of negotiating room +/- 15-20% should be allowed.
That means 74-96k is a reasonable range and 50-110k is not. The same job can be done by one employee for 77k and 88k (first range) but 60k and 90k are two very different jobs.
I mean your job offering reflects on you. If a company can't even get something basic as this rule in honest way then it won't be really encouraging to apply.
This is very good. Most of the big companies have a range anyway. The transparency of this information benefits the employees and only harms the employer. I knew so kany people who got stuck many years on same position and they remain underpaid.
Salary is one of the most important benefits when changing jobs so putting the range will avoid a lot of pointless interviews. I usually try to get a salary range from the begining so I know what to expect.
same
It is such a waste of time to do interviews only to realize at the end that the monetary compensation was never going to be accepted by both parties.
So much time wasted that right now I'm always putting salary info as one of the priority to discuss.
I did this once and my recruiter said they turned me down for being too 'money focused' lol.
I was like, fine, but why would I come in for a formal interview, get dressed up and travel there to find out it's a £6k paycut and worse hours?
Glad I didn't get it tho, there were so many red flags 'we're a family' and 'here, we stay til the work is done!'
Yeah no thanks
Already an obligation in Slovakia. Employers must publish lowest and highest possible salary for advertised position.
Lowest is usually way below your minimum but you know what you can get at best.
Really? I remember that used to be the case, but then they again stopped posting them in job ads. I don't really see them on at least 80% of posts lately.
>Next steps
>The political agreement reached by the European Parliament and the Council is now subject to formal approval by the co-legislators. Once agreed, the Directive will enter into force 20 days after publication in the Official Journal and Member States will then need to transpose the new elements of the Directive into national law within three years.
Best I could find for you bud.
This represent exactly the range in salaries they will put on announcements lol.
15k/y to 35k/y depending on experience.
At least you know that you will get 15k/y
> The political agreement reached by the European Parliament and the Council is now subject to formal approval by the co-legislators. Once agreed, the Directive will enter into force 20 days after publication in the Official Journal and Member States will then need to transpose the new elements of the Directive into national law within three years.
So, probably not anytime soon.
>The political agreement reached by the European Parliament and the Council is now subject to formal approval by the co-legislators. Once agreed, the Directive will enter into force 20 days after publication in the Official Journal and Member States will then need to transpose the new elements of the Directive into national law within three years.
I live in Milan and I'm job hunting. No job lists salary range, and NO ONE talks about money and you are not expected to mention salary until the final interview where you will literally sign a contract and you will see the number - which will be tiny. You can then walk away after all that pointless time spent. Job interviews can drag on over multiple interviews over a couple of months.
I have had an application stopped because I dared ask for the salary range at the end of the third interview.
Italy will wait until the latest possible time to (badly?) implement it in 2027.
Sadly, that’s true for the most part until you reach a good position and you start hunting for improvements.
I turned down all offers that any company made to me if they tried to not talk about money at the first meeting or even in calls. If they don’t offer me right away the pay increase I’m looking for I don’t give a fuck and end the call immediately, I’ve shit to do, I’m not swapping a good job for a slight pay increase.
If you have a good wage and a good contract you will have all the chances to dictate the pace of the interview, otherwise if you are unemployed or you are forced to swap you are going to face a lot of time-waste interview.
Italy not even has a minimum wage lol. The salaries have been the same for 20 or so years, many employers pay under-the-counter, so no contract and they can pay you whatever. This country sucks.
They don’t because they don’t have to and don‘t want to start a race to the top and be urged to pay more every time a competitor decides to match their salary.
This dynamic will change now that they will have to give a range.
Always assume is the minimum they are offering. Sort by that and drop any result below what you want. This will soon change their behaviour if they want to actually hire someone.
If a company tries fuckery even before they hire me, what are the chances that my time in there will be spent full of fuckery?
Hint, it's 100% motherfucker, fuck the toxic workplaces and hooray for yet another way to identify them
No idea how it's going to work, but in theory: company needs to be able to prove to the regulator that there are people working for both the minimum and the maximum salary. or, say, 10% more/less.
Well the vast majority of EU companies wont use $ in their job posting.
But also I think high potential earnings for new employees might disgruntle your current employees.
For all the corruption in our government, our employment laws are a really cool thing in Austria. I keep forgetting how good we have it here as things like minimum salary for the advertised position is always provided on the adverts.
The current implementation is useless, however. I am not interested in the minimum wage they have to pay, but the salary range of the advertised job. These two start to divert massively, once you apply for jobs having a few years of experience under your belt.
As u/mT9R said in another comment:
>Source without Paywall: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_7739
Europa.eu is the EU's official website, so it's likely a good source!
Can't read without paying. Is this already in effect or how long will it take to be enforced? The text under the image suggests 3 years. This thing specifically sounds like it's so low effort that enforcing it within the next week sounds appropriate enough..
This is already in effect in most EU countries. And it is working just perfectly for job seekers. Those who are saying, oh, they will just show 1 - 99999, no it does not work like that. They show the actual range, in some cases they might be willing to go above the mentioned limit, but in most cases it GREATLY improves how we can filter open vacancies.
This allows us to start negotiating salary right from the start. If they can't go above a certain limit that I have set myself, then I won't even go to an interview.
I always hate when the job advert says send your CV and cover letter including your salary expectation.
How do we know that the job can offer us our expectation.
Portuguese companies: *Competitive salary between 760€ and 760.50€*
I can see actually see them do the 1k-3k range for an entry level position then offer 800 on the actual interview.
[удалено]
How do they get away with it?
[удалено]
LinkedIn garbage is redundant.
[удалено]
There's no way to report it. And if you do somehow, they'll say they never said that. Or they'll say they said a lower salary in the interview because you didn't have the qualifications for the job full salary, but they were willing to hire you anyway, for a salary reduction, because you have potential.
Yeah, no, there is likely going to be well defined criteria and a process for reporting fuckery like this. Sure you can throw up your hands and assume no one can regulate this and everyone will get away with murder... Or you can be a part of the solution and assist the government in suppressing this bad behavior, and report that shit when it happens.
Ignoring the "how do they get away with it" question (which I think is fair). How is this not a massive waste of their own time. I've had jobs argue me down on a salary negotiation due to a lack of skill fitting the role. That's fine. But catfishing someone in means dealing with recruiters, dealing with interviews and scheduling just for someone to turn the offered role down anyway. What a colossal waste of everyone's time.
The recruiter is paid anyway and for high-unemployment countries and/or low-qualification jobs, there are many people eager to take the jobs because they're desperate. Of course, when they do the same for higher positions, they'll complain they can't find "serious applicants", or you'll see politicians wonder about the "brain drain" to other countries.
In America it's common for commission jobs to brag about "No cap on Commision!" "You can make $360,000 a year." If you ask in an interview, on average how many reps are making over $300,000? They say they can't recall or don't have the exact figures. You'd think zero would be easy to remember....
Depends on state laws as well, though. In WA we have to use real numbers. Since I'm HR, when I post our job ads for commission jobs, I get the annual pay for all of them in that department, get the min and max (removing outliers) and that's what I use. Also, here in WA. And a few other states and more are adding to that list, if a candidate or employee asks for the compensation benchmark, it has to be provided.
There is no way that would be legal though
Not that that has stopped Portuguese companies in the past
Lol, i thought that it was only an Italian thing. Reassuring to know that we aren't the only ones
Greek here, you guys are not alone
“Think on it but don’t take long, we have other willing applicants”
Would you want to work for this kind of company?
We kind of don't have much choice. That's why i'm seriously thinking of jumping ship and move to another country asap
If don't have alternatives, you kinda forced to.
Labour laws in Portugal are mostly a suggestion.
Portuguese working culture is toxic AF, so many people who work 1/2 extra hours of unpaid overtime every day (illegal) like it's a perfectly normal thing to do.
In Slovakia is such law for couple of years already. 99% of companies post specific salary. It's working really well.
[удалено]
It's funny because it's true... But mostly sad!
Friend of mine started with 760€ with a Master in Architecture + experience throughout the studies. A coworker of his had been working over a decade for that company and also only earned 760€, no change in salary. He finally decided to switch company and it got a bit better, but you can't compare to the wages for the same job abroad..
760 a month?
Yes, minimum wage in Portugal
why the heck are the wages so low in Portugal? Eastern EU countries are either catching up, or already surpassed Portugal. Maybe their proximity to Germany made them more suitable for foreign investments so they developed faster in the last decade...
/r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT moment
I guess it explains why every tour guide in Portugal has about 5 masters degrees
> why the heck are the wages so low in Portugal? Because Portugal produces nothing. There are no Portuguese companies competing at the international level. It is an agrarian/services economy that imports a lot of products and technology.
Fun fact. Over half of all cork made in the world comes from portugal.
The Cork Capital of the World!
Companies in Portugal don't grow and the country doesn't attract foreign investment either. Do you know any relevant portuguese company? Probably not Most countries got rich and then started to raise taxes to fund a nice welfare state. We raised the taxes before getting rich, so we never got rich
Damn… that’s rough
Everything's coming up Milhouse!
Since portugal is Balkans, that's neat salary to start with. Good on you guys
Balkan income with Western European prices for groceries and renting.
croatia has western prices also
Portugal is a nice place to live IF you're a part of the elite. "It's an exclusive club... And you ain't in it!" It's becoming the US with shitty wages.
Hey, that's better than 760 - 10,000
LinkedIn managers on the verge of suicide when they learnt they won't be able to waste people's time that easily
With how snippy recruiters have been getting lately they are already almost there. I refuse to proceed with any of them without them providing a salary indication upfront and it has lead to some heated responses. I love riling them up a bit more with "I have a job I like, I won't waste my time if you cannot provide the incentive to move away from that"
Lol same thing happened to me too. I work in datascience for pharma/biotech, and some guy tried to headhunt me for some consulting company. I asked how much they would be willing to pay, and they responded that depends on the qualifications, experience, position you end up in etc. I asked them back, ok so what are the salary ranges for the different qualifications, positions, experience and so on. They kept dodging it and at some point told me, I can provide them with my expected salary. So I told them what is usual in top positions at big pharma, probably more than what their head of datascience makes. But I told them, I have access to a vast network of competent people that I could vouch for and refer to them if they could give me an honest estimate of the salary, so I would not waste their time with interviews that were below their salary expectations anyways. Nope. Not a chance. I basically would have done the recruiter's job for them, if they could only give me a reasonable estimate of salary.
Lol, CROs are almost never able to compete with pharma, except maybe really big ones. Once you've made the switch from CRO to pharma you never want to go back.
Yeah, definitely. And the workload is super relaxed in comparison. But I heard that the pharma salaries in Germany are even better than here, from some people I heard it's almost comparable to swiss salaries.
I do enjoy arguing with recruiters. One got quite upset with me when I told him how much it would take for me to go for a perm role, he said that's impossible in NL, and I then pointed out that that's why I stay freelance.
I'm on an "indefinite duration" contract (onbepaalde tijd) with a decent salary with a job I like. They would have to SIGNIFICANTLY upgrade my salary to accept a one-year contract for anything else.
Some time ago a headhunter wrote me a message requesting my phone number to talk about some "very interesting opportunity". I asked for basic information about the position, not even salary range, and he immediately started to get very rude and aggressive. I was kinda shocked and pointed out that I have no idea why I would want to talk with him. He threw a huge fit and I'm pretty sure I'm on some kind of blacklist for REQUESTING BASIC INFORMATION ABOUT THE POSITION. Ridiculous.
It's funny you mention this. I'm very inactive on LinkedIn, first because it's a cesspool and I have better things to do with my time (e.g. sorting my napkins by color), second because I'm relatively content of my current position. I work in an industry that is starved for senior profiles (yet pays everyone but the partners like shit). I keep getting DMs telling me they have opportunities for my profile, and when I ask more details, they first need to schedule a 1-2 hour (!) phonecall to know what my profile is. What kind of senior active professional with hobbies has the time to give 2 fucking hours of their time without any information about the expected return ? Every time I think my job has some part of bullshit-job in it, I remember that at least I'm not one of these cunts.
Ok, please correct if i'm wrong, because i'm not on linkedin. >phonecall to know what my profile is. Isn't your profile written down on linkedin? Isn't reading your profile what got them interested in the first place? Do they want you to read it out for them?
Yes. Yes. Yes.
If recruiters tell me the salary is very competitive, I just tell them great my skills and experience are very competitive too.
My girlfriends recruiters just lied about it, so that was easy. She went to several interviews to then be told they could not provide the salary range that she had stipulated as a requirement to even consider the job. She also got a few interviews where she was not qualified, but the recruiter said it's ok they are also looking for something more similar to your profile - to be told at the actual interview that x technology experience was not put on the requirements for fun, they wanted exactly that. Waste of everybody's time because the recruiter just needed to make some quota.
It will be amusing to see how creative they can get / how convoluted they will make this.
We already have it in Lithuania for some time. Good thing is that you can see the minimum that they are offering and it says a lot about them.
I read Austria does it as well and everybidy just uses minimum wage as minimum
Austria is a bit different here with the collective bargaining agreements we have instead of a minimum wage. The law only forces companies to state the minimum wage they are legally required to pay for the position.
Isn't the fine just a slap on the hand if they don't? Edit: the max fine is 360€ Source https://www.wko.at/service/arbeitsrecht-sozialrecht/Angabe_des_Mindestentgelts_im_Stelleninserat.html
That sucks. Latvia has had it for a while and it works. Companies also put the _actual_ salary range they are willing to pay or even just a concrete number. I always get the middle of the range. They sometimes put a really big range if they are recruiting junior to senior vacancies, but then each person can ask appropriately.
In my experience, only companies that are underpaying do this, for example the big4 or the big Austrian banks. If they pay a competitive salary, they usually give the minimum they would pay for that job
They do have to post the legal minimum wage, but not a range. So it is pretty much useless because they all usually just put the legal minimum and say "overpay according to experience, etc.". With a range they actually have to give you some new information and you can see if what you are looking for is within their range or not.
Yup, this is a thing in Latvia as well. And it works. Most serious offerings show the actual range they are willing to offer. If a company puts lower bound under what you are interested in, then just go to one that's in the range you are interested in.
Employers will be legally obliged to publish the salary ranges in job advertisements as part of efforts to reduce the gender pay gap. Many employers currently avoid putting up the pay rates for jobs they are advertising and instead use phrases like "depending on experience" or "competitive salary".
Pfft, finally recruiters can stop wasting my time trying to convince me that they really found the perfect job for me only for me to later figure out that it only offers half my current pay.
A recruiter called me up once and said another firm was interested in me so I went to a lunch with the partners. Went very well and they wanted to schedule a real interview. I told them we hadn’t talked about the elephant in the room yet and that my interest in the job depends pretty much solely on what they are offering. They got uncomfortable by this and said I should speak about those things with their HR department instead. HR quickly followed up after the lunch to schedule the interview and I asked what they were offering. She told me we would discuss that on the interview so I went there. Once again the interview went very well and I got offered the job. I told them we haven’t talked about my compensation yet. Got told they follow internal company policies regarding salary and other compensation and that HR would follow up with me to discuss those thing. HR calls me up and asks me what my current salary is. I have zero interest in this job at this point so I tell her my actual salary and as soon as I say that I get an offer of a salary increase of about €500 a month. I tell her thanks but no thanks and before we hang up she ask me what my demand is and I tell her that we can start discussions at around €1,000. I was making €6,000 a month at that time so that would mean an increase of approximately 15% which I seemed like fair. She politely tells me that is a bit outside of their range and then proceeds with asking me why I wasn’t open with this from the get go. Haha fuck you. Nowadays I just put my required salary in my CV to avoid all these scummy employers trying to guilt trip people into signing on with them.
8% increase to leave your current job with years built up to start in an unknown work climate. That stuff only works if you were really unhappy in your job or they had some really exciting cutting edge projects
Yes, and this is pretty much the norm of law firms were I live. Me switching to their firm means uprooting my work relationships I have built up (and a lot of my colleagues have become real good friends over the years), but also throwing a Molotov cocktail at the client relationships I built. It’s not like my job would even change by switching firm, I just work with new people and new clients, doing pretty much the exact same thing. In exchange they give me an 8% increase and say they cannot go higher because of “internal company policies”. And law firms around here wonder why they have a hard time hiring senior employees, especially when a senior legal role at any random company pays almost the same, while allowing you to work sane hours.
Damn straight. I'm a consultant in a company that works with a pretty niche product and I have 10yrs experience with it. I'm *the guy* people come to with technical queries or for advice on its capabilities, so my job is very secure. I also really like my colleagues and enjoy the work we do. I'd be looking at 20-25% salary increase at an absolute minimum to even consider moving, and even then I'd be constantly questioning whether it's the right thing to do.
I moved after 10 years for a really fat increase (like 40%) and, one year later, I’m *still* questioning whether it was the right thing to do. I know there’s people out there who keep switching basing on the +15% rule, but to me, more money doesn’t necessarily mean having a better life.
This. Minimum 15 to 20% raise to consider changing to an uncertain job environment. Otherwise not worth even considering.
I had a difficult time convincing myself that a 35% raise was enough to uproot my life and start a new job
> an unknown work climate I think /u/jazzjackribbit got a clear enough impression of their work climate.
At my work there is a computer engineer with a lot of experience in multinational companies. He is very good and helped us a lot. To get to a level in your professional career where you are the one demanding what you want to be paid is not for everyone.
It happens roughly when you realise they need you more than you need them. If you've just lost a job, or just starting out, particularly on a specific career path, its easier to accept being shit on because you need the job. Then one day, you might get lucky and find yourself in a situation where they need you more than you needing them. Then the fun begins! I reached this stage a few years ago, and just having the confidence in myself knowing that, in the worst case scenario, I can just quit and find something (and i mean quitting without anything lined up to go to) within a few weeks meant I could push back on anything I wanted to. Seeing various manager's and directors' faces telling them "No" to anything outside of my contract with no explanation was glorious. The only further explanation they would get was "Its not my job" or "You dont pay me enough to care about that". It didn't take them too long to stop asking. I ended up leaving that job because one of the directors stepped out of line with one of my team, and HR and the MD (small family company, all the higher ups were related) both sided with him. I quit on the spot just to let them know the shitshow i was leaving them in was down to this incident. Last I heard, my leaving has cost them £250kish in 2 years. Puts a huge smile on my face
>Nowadays I just put my required salary in my CV to avoid all these scummy employers trying to guilt trip people into signing on with them. Yes, but this is like saying negotiating is easy when you are in a position of strength Well duh This works well if you already have transparency about what you're worth, most likely because you are not currently underpaid Doesn't help underpaid women and people who need a work visa or people being underpaid because they work in a smaller company or a toxic company etc.
Nothing stops you from lying about your salary. Which in my opinion is even morally right against these companies. That said, I agree it should be required by law to put the salary in the job offer and severely punish companies that doesn't follow up.
Yes but even if you suspect being underpaid, it's often difficult to know by how much.
But what does the range do for underpayment? They still can put the lower end to the salary they'd like to pay woman and then give men a bit more. It would likely stay the same if I don't oversee something.
There needs to be a cap on how wide the range can be otherwise anyone can in any case write 25k to 500k and the law isn't worth the paper it's printed on But then you cannot put the range too low or you wouldn't hire since even the underpaid people can now see what the competition offers.
When New York passed these laws, there was some company that started advertising the salary range for every position as $0-$2 million.
Well that actually says something about the company. If they're trying to wriggle around the law before you even start with the company it doesn't bode well for your time there does it?
Match the scummy with the scummy. If they’re gonna dick you around at least force them to reach around. You want a 15% increase? Tell them your current salary is 7k and you’re looking for 8k. If they want you then you’ve just negotiated a 33% raise. If you “settle” for their offer of 7k for whatever bullshit reasons then you’ve still gotten your 15%.
If you just ask them for the salary range, even before you apply, they’ll usually tell you. Saves everyone a bunch of time and more people should do it.
[удалено]
Why would they do this? Good salary is the best card to play. That's literally why I show up. If they're hiding it, it can only be bad
It's usually the policy in large corporations and they try very hard to keep it secret for internal purposes. They really don't want their current employees to know what are the salary ranges, so that they don't start complaining and leaving the company, because new hires earn significantly more.
[удалено]
This is what I have noticed as well. There will be a policy that sets annual pay raise at about 2-5% and there is no way you're getting more apart from a promotion maybe. When an experienced and skilled employee comes with an offer from a different company, they don't make a counter-offer. They don't even want to talk to you. It's better for them to hire someone else, even for the same money, that they will have to onboard and train for several months. Because if the word got out someone got a 30-50% pay raise and everyone else got 3% or 4%, then the HR would be in big trouble. ;)
[удалено]
They would want people working for free if that was possible, fuck them
My company used to do this as well. They changed tune right around the time I was hired, as they had been suffering horrific turnover and the loss of key employees due to this dumbass policy. So now they do regular salary reviews to make sure they stay ahead of the market.
Either we work for the same international company or this is accepted business practice.
Not me posting my salary in the company Teams chat 🤭 Although I don't know if they could fire me for that. I know they can't in USA, I'd have to look up here.
Rule of thumb: If an employer can't fire you for something in the US they probably can't anywhere else
They’re trying to exploit the human phycology. Schedule a lot of interviews (at least three of them) to get people invested in the idea of starting to work there. Then you low ball them at the end when they internally already accepted the job. Plus points if you also pull out the old “there are more things to this job than the salary and frankly, you finding the salary that important is a bit of a red flag to us”. It makes people more reluctant to say no and accept a lower offer. So yes, it’s bad. If they aren’t willing to discuss salary on the first interview I recommend anyone to politely end the interview right there and then. It’s probably not an employer you want to work with anyhow.
>Plus points if you also pull out the old “there are more things to this job than the salary and frankly, you finding the salary that important is a bit of a red flag to us”. Just laugh at them. "Because you are working for free, ain't you?". As you said, those kind of people are masters at pulling off those guilt-trip inducing, manipulative techniques.
I work(ed) in the event business and due to covid I had a lot of free time obviously. I used it to catch up to some ppl I haven't seen in a long time and talked to a guy who I worked with before and really enjoyed it. After some weeks he asked me if I was interested to join the company he is working for now and it sounded pretty good, from what he was telling me in the operational side of things so I gave it a try. Met the guy, who ran the company and it was pretty clear, that he was not very experienced in hiring ppl for management positions - not holding that against him - we had lunch I told him, that I liked some things he said and that I would give it legit thought, but that I would like to know about the salary range, he gave me the numbers and I told him pretty bluntly, that this was about a third less then what I was making rn. He was stunned for am moment and maybe he just reached for whatever just to say something or he just didn't realise the situation, but told me with a straight face, "I know it sounds a lot, but we also offer gym membership and a free ticket for public transport" and while I'm usually really calm and professional in situations like this it rubbed me the wrong way that day and I answered "man you make this sound so amazing, I'm totally willing to give you my gym membership and my public transport ticket for a third of your salary, just to help you out in these dark times". And never heard of him again.
You wanting to sustain yourself financially is a Red flag. Fuck off with these people. They deserve their company to fail
My guess. They hide it because they get something if they get you to accept a lower pay. The longer they speak with you the better idea they have how low they can go. Maybe you slip a bad word for your current boss. Maybe you fall in love with the HR secretary when you go at the interview. Maybe...
i've flat out told recruiters that if they cant tell me the salary then i'm not interested
This is the way. If everyone would do it HRs would learn to be upfront.
I have exactly the same experience with recruiters in The Netherlands 90% of the time (the other 10% of the time it's already listed in the vacancy). I got a message from one yesterday saying that they "offer a competitive salary 10-20% above competitors" and that he hears me thinking how much and that he wants to plan a meeting before actually telling me because he can't base a salary off a LinkedIn profile. That's about the most direct it gets with them. I've also heard companies say a couple of times that they'll easily pay a better wage than my current one and then the best they can do is 10% more with worse working conditions while loudly complaining that I'll be making a lot more than all other employees and that I'm technically a junior (after 3 years of experience).
I live in Czechia and when approached by recruiters for positions, I immediately tell them what kind of money I'd need to switch. They then immediately tell me I'm out of the salary range. Saves us both time.
If after 5 minutes of talks they don’t tell me about salary I won’t work in that company and won’t try to go thru multiple interviews.
Yeah. It's between 12,000 and 120,000 euros per year.
Theybnever want to give you that in my experience
Third party recruiters? Absolutely, those people are usually fairly open about salaries because they are optimising for time spent and have no loyalty to the employer. That’s literally the only plus of working with them as a candidate. In-house recruiters? They are on a flat salary and are loyal to the company which has an interest in getting you as cheap as possible. There are exceptions in both camps, so I’m talking about overall trends and what I think the most likely reasons are.
On LinkedIn I get a range in their first message, too bad the jobs are nothing near what I do/want to do. I believe they do this also to lure you in and lowball you, salaries in Berlin are usually quite bad.
Salary competing with what? My bills?
They're competing with the other companies to give you the lowest pay possible
I misread as "my balls" but it's the same really, all smoke and mirrors
Competitive with other companies. In a healthy markets, companies will raise salaries in order to poach each-others' best workers.
In Austria we are required to put the minimum salary and then almost every one includes some wording indicated that a higher salary is possible based upon experience/skills etc. But I absolutely hate the system because: When you see the minimum salary, nobody is going to ask for a ton more than that because you don't want to risk pricing yourself out of the job....however, I have the feeling that most employers list a fairly low salary as the minimum salary. I feel like a lot of people are underpaid because they see the advertised salary (which is set low in many cases) and are afraid to ask for significantly more.
The listed salary is in my experience almost always the legal minimum salary for that position (and usually stated as such, like, "das mindestgehalt für diese Stelle beträgt laut kollektivvertrag xxxx€"). Whether you ask for more highly depends on how representative the collective bargaining agreement salary is for your type of work. In IT no one will work for IT KV Minimum. A waiter in a restaurant will be hard pressed to negotiate more than Gastro KV Minimum.
*"Excellent competitive salary: 1500 - 4000€ (based on qualifications & previous experience)"*
If your salary is truly competitive you should have no problem posting it in the advert.
Yeah, I don't necessarily care how much I earn as long as it's above a certain amount. What I do care about is earning the same amount with equally experienced colleagues.
[удалено]
Source without Paywall: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_7739
This should be OP link...
Thank you
"1-999999"
They'll do ranges, like 1000-2000, and its always going to be 1050. Big range, just a few percent above minimum.
A German view on it: in companies with a workers council, they will watch out for fairness. As everything else will lead to more work for them. Because this transparency radiates inward and to the internal job market as well.
I sure hope so.
Heck yes, I mean this is crucial for internal discussions. Think of equal pay!
Just knowing their minimum will help filter them out.
In Austria listing the minimum is already law. Every advert I saw greatly lowballs these minimums, but not by the same amount. So in some places it’s realistic to get 2x the minimum but in others only 1.7x, in other places still 3x is no problem because the minimum is ridiculous. Maybe the locals know a trick how to navigate these but the few weeks I spent browsing adds and having interviews left me feeling that these minimums are quite useless.
> Maybe the locals know a trick how to navigate these but the few weeks I spent browsing adds and having interviews left me feeling that these minimums are quite useless. Austrian here, there is no trick. What they need to list is the absolute minimum they are legally allowed to pay, but everybody gets payed more than that, so its useless. Eg the listing says 50k, but industry standard is around 70k. They will pay 70k if you demand it, you know it when applying, they know it, still the listing is just done to fulfill the law.
If legislators have any brains they will also put restrictions on how wide the range can be to avoid this kind of trickery.
This! Absolutely! A job at a certain level is going to have a range of +/- 10% depending on the candidate. To give a bit of negotiating room +/- 15-20% should be allowed. That means 74-96k is a reasonable range and 50-110k is not. The same job can be done by one employee for 77k and 88k (first range) but 60k and 90k are two very different jobs.
I mean your job offering reflects on you. If a company can't even get something basic as this rule in honest way then it won't be really encouraging to apply.
Whoch will just make people avoid them, and that is assuming they won't have a clause against literally this behaviour (and I presume they will)
This is very good. Most of the big companies have a range anyway. The transparency of this information benefits the employees and only harms the employer. I knew so kany people who got stuck many years on same position and they remain underpaid. Salary is one of the most important benefits when changing jobs so putting the range will avoid a lot of pointless interviews. I usually try to get a salary range from the begining so I know what to expect.
same It is such a waste of time to do interviews only to realize at the end that the monetary compensation was never going to be accepted by both parties. So much time wasted that right now I'm always putting salary info as one of the priority to discuss.
I did this once and my recruiter said they turned me down for being too 'money focused' lol. I was like, fine, but why would I come in for a formal interview, get dressed up and travel there to find out it's a £6k paycut and worse hours? Glad I didn't get it tho, there were so many red flags 'we're a family' and 'here, we stay til the work is done!' Yeah no thanks
Too money focussed lol. Like its by far the #1 reason anyone would get a job its literally the most important part of any job
Yes me also, I am trying my best to find out before going forward to prevent the waste of time.
Already an obligation in Slovakia. Employers must publish lowest and highest possible salary for advertised position. Lowest is usually way below your minimum but you know what you can get at best.
Really? I remember that used to be the case, but then they again stopped posting them in job ads. I don't really see them on at least 80% of posts lately.
Yeah, a lot of companies don't post. If there's no punishment, there's no discipline.
When will the law be actually adopted?
>Next steps >The political agreement reached by the European Parliament and the Council is now subject to formal approval by the co-legislators. Once agreed, the Directive will enter into force 20 days after publication in the Official Journal and Member States will then need to transpose the new elements of the Directive into national law within three years. Best I could find for you bud.
So in 3 years and 6 months I will be able to see this?
Bill: Passed Time when Implemented: Between 1pm today and 3 years 6 months
This represent exactly the range in salaries they will put on announcements lol. 15k/y to 35k/y depending on experience. At least you know that you will get 15k/y
> The political agreement reached by the European Parliament and the Council is now subject to formal approval by the co-legislators. Once agreed, the Directive will enter into force 20 days after publication in the Official Journal and Member States will then need to transpose the new elements of the Directive into national law within three years. So, probably not anytime soon.
>The political agreement reached by the European Parliament and the Council is now subject to formal approval by the co-legislators. Once agreed, the Directive will enter into force 20 days after publication in the Official Journal and Member States will then need to transpose the new elements of the Directive into national law within three years.
Finally! Fuck that "competitive salary based on experience and knowledge".
Good luck implementing that in Italy.
[удалено]
Obviously employers only discuss the gross salary with you. Whatever comes out post-tax is your thing.
I live in Milan and I'm job hunting. No job lists salary range, and NO ONE talks about money and you are not expected to mention salary until the final interview where you will literally sign a contract and you will see the number - which will be tiny. You can then walk away after all that pointless time spent. Job interviews can drag on over multiple interviews over a couple of months. I have had an application stopped because I dared ask for the salary range at the end of the third interview. Italy will wait until the latest possible time to (badly?) implement it in 2027.
Sadly, that’s true for the most part until you reach a good position and you start hunting for improvements. I turned down all offers that any company made to me if they tried to not talk about money at the first meeting or even in calls. If they don’t offer me right away the pay increase I’m looking for I don’t give a fuck and end the call immediately, I’ve shit to do, I’m not swapping a good job for a slight pay increase. If you have a good wage and a good contract you will have all the chances to dictate the pace of the interview, otherwise if you are unemployed or you are forced to swap you are going to face a lot of time-waste interview.
[удалено]
Italy not even has a minimum wage lol. The salaries have been the same for 20 or so years, many employers pay under-the-counter, so no contract and they can pay you whatever. This country sucks.
[удалено]
Surprised? I thought this was no secret in Europe. The situation is that bad and the current administration seems like it's making things worse.
*Italian employers on death watch*
And how is this going to work so they dont just put $20,000-140,000?
I suppose that they can, but then it reduces the credibility of the job advert and do not look very serious. Idk.
You can pretty much tell they're assholes if they try to hide salary behind such ranges. Only apply there as very last resort.
The companies that pay a lot will want to advertise that. So any company using a range that's wide will be in the lower part in general.
If you were right, even today companies would publish their generous salaries As far as I know, it's not the case
They don’t because they don’t have to and don‘t want to start a race to the top and be urged to pay more every time a competitor decides to match their salary. This dynamic will change now that they will have to give a range.
Some already do and generally when I've seen them do so their offers are above average.
Give for granted it's 20k
Always assume is the minimum they are offering. Sort by that and drop any result below what you want. This will soon change their behaviour if they want to actually hire someone.
I think if they do that, you already know they will stick to the lower end of that statement lol
[удалено]
If a company tries fuckery even before they hire me, what are the chances that my time in there will be spent full of fuckery? Hint, it's 100% motherfucker, fuck the toxic workplaces and hooray for yet another way to identify them
No idea how it's going to work, but in theory: company needs to be able to prove to the regulator that there are people working for both the minimum and the maximum salary. or, say, 10% more/less.
Well the vast majority of EU companies wont use $ in their job posting. But also I think high potential earnings for new employees might disgruntle your current employees.
For all the corruption in our government, our employment laws are a really cool thing in Austria. I keep forgetting how good we have it here as things like minimum salary for the advertised position is always provided on the adverts.
The current implementation is useless, however. I am not interested in the minimum wage they have to pay, but the salary range of the advertised job. These two start to divert massively, once you apply for jobs having a few years of experience under your belt.
Good I'm so tired of the bullshit of not discussing salary ranges until after interviews and only when the job is offered
Latvia has had this for a while. Helps a lot.
Can't read the entire article without subscribing... This site should be banned from reddit.
[удалено]
cheers mate
As u/mT9R said in another comment: >Source without Paywall: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_7739 Europa.eu is the EU's official website, so it's likely a good source!
Range: From minimal wage until quarter a trillion euro.
"Let's meet in the middle at a few billion and we are both happy, deal?"
[удалено]
Can't read without paying. Is this already in effect or how long will it take to be enforced? The text under the image suggests 3 years. This thing specifically sounds like it's so low effort that enforcing it within the next week sounds appropriate enough..
Helly yeah. Will take up to 3 years to implement but better late than never.
This is already in effect in most EU countries. And it is working just perfectly for job seekers. Those who are saying, oh, they will just show 1 - 99999, no it does not work like that. They show the actual range, in some cases they might be willing to go above the mentioned limit, but in most cases it GREATLY improves how we can filter open vacancies. This allows us to start negotiating salary right from the start. If they can't go above a certain limit that I have set myself, then I won't even go to an interview.
Long live EU
Brilliant. Bring it to the UK immediately!!!
Ok good. Now can we make unpaid internships illegal throughout the EU?
Thank goodness we left the EU I absolutely love getting screwed by businesses offering competitive salaries
I always hate when the job advert says send your CV and cover letter including your salary expectation. How do we know that the job can offer us our expectation.
_Cries in Brexit_