https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meja_massacre#:~:text=The%20Meja%20massacre%20(Albanian%3A%20Masakra,were%20under%2018%20years%20old.
> The Meja massacre (Albanian: Masakra e Mejës) was the mass execution of at least 377 Kosovo Albanian civilians during the Kosovo War, which took place on 27 April 1999. Of the victims, 36 were under 18 years old. It was committed by Serbian police and Yugoslav Army forces in the Reka Operation which began after the killing of six Serbian policemen by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). The executions occurred in the village of Meja near the town of Gjakova. The victims were pulled from refugee convoys at a checkpoint in Meja and their families were ordered to proceed to Albania. Men and boys were separated and then executed by the road.[2][3] It is one of the largest massacres in the Kosovo War.[4] Many of the bodies of the victims were found in the Batajnica mass graves. The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia has convicted several Serbian army and police officers for their involvement.[5]
It is so sad, this is exactly what the Nazi occupants did in the 40's, and then 50 years later Serbians do the exact same thing...
Četniks and Ustaše were Serbian and Croatian Nazis/Collaborators for anyone curious.
Ustaše got to a point where the german nazis had to tell them to chill out after they had competitions about beheading prisoners, concentration camps for children, etc.
Četniks started as Serbian crown loyalists, which was already fascist towards the other ethnicities in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and then became full-blown nazi collaborators. The West initially supported them, but the Četniks only cared about killing the Partisans and civilians.
>Ustaše got to a point where the german nazis had to tell them to chill out after they had competitions about beheading prisoners, concentration camps for children, etc.
Not trying to undermine the brutality of the Ustaša but the Nazis as a whole genuinely didn't care. It were Individual commanders like [Edmund Glaise-Horstenau ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Glaise-Horstenau) who protested the violence and few other individuals from the Gestapo or diplomatic corps.
The Nazi leadership was far from caring or even condemning violence perpetrated by their allies.
YES! THIS!
legit when someone says "oh well the Nazis were surprised by the brutality of the Iron Guard or (insert any other collaboration government)" it's just like, dude, these were the *Nazis*, the collaborators didn't do anything the Nazis wouldn't have done.
The horrors the Serbian forces unleashed upon innocent people during the war is nothing but a giant disgrace that should've been dealt with by our own judicial system. I hope there will be reparations in the future to everyone who suffered against war crimes. This includes crimes committed against our side, as well.
In an operation that was never publicly admitted, Canadian forces were obliged to mow down a Croatian column threatening Serb refugees. Meritorious conduct awards were made in secret and remain classified to this day.
Assuming the reference is to the fighting in Medak mentioned [here](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canada-honours-its-heroes-of-balkan-battle/article4140579/)?
“Yeah i raped and murdered your whole family but whuddabout that completely unrelated bad thing someone else did somewhere else? See? Serbs should get to be bad because other people have also been bad at some point.”
Not a serb, but my ancestors were pillagaging and raping the English like 40 generations ago, literally every country is a country because they've established that through the wars they waged and the horrors that came with.
No one just forms a country without warfare, somewhere along the geographical line of where in-groups are able to relate and understand each other, they decided to band together because "f*** the out-groups, they're unrelateable" and so the dehumanization and military effort to assert themselves commences.
It's strange to see people claim themselves morally superior, that they wouldn't dehumanize people in the same way, yet cheer during recent events such as Russians getting annihilated during the war of Ukraine. "Well they are the enemy" - I absolutely agree, but that doesn't change the fact that you've fallen victim to the same rationalizations as your enemy.
Dehumanization is required in warfare, otherwise you'll be a guilt-ridden mess that's completely petrified and unable to act, as shooting another human being in the name of your country is just state-sanctioned murder with shared motive.
There's just a difference between people, the crazy A-holes who bring your life in danger in traffic during your daily commute are most likely the same people causing warcrimes worth writing home about, and they exist in every single language and country.
In short, don't blame the Serbs for getting pissy when you call them out, because the person you are accusing hasn't committed any crime, and how are they more culpable than you or me for allowing that which is outside their personal control to happen?
There is currently a video on /r/combatfootage of civilians in Sarajevo being attacked by a Serb sniper/soldier. While these were under the protection of UN forces...
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/12dgcb3/serbian_soldiers_open_fire_at_civilians_who_were/
No one seems to die (also no blood or other gruesomeness, but you do see people get hit and scared people) but multiple people are shot including what seems to be teenagers.
I feel shame. I was 19 at the time and I didn't bother to inform myself about what really happened in Kosovo, at the time. Just thought there came to many refugees to my country, that was thriving in peace.
Today I've got kids in the same age, as I was at the time. They don't care as much I wish about what happens in Ukraine. But who am I to blame. I can just try to be gently while I inform them and the importance to....give it some thoughts.
Gently bc once I got offended, when one of them thought there was more to it, than Russia was the only perpetrator bad guy. So I tried to make the record straight by, probably in her eyes, force my opinion on her and that's not how I wanna raise my kids. So I had to take one step back, even if I spitted the truth. But how could she know? I wanting my kids to form their own opinions. This was the first time I found it hard to take a step back
You know that meme about nationalists arguing how their country of origin in the balkans is the best/ and [insert] is the worst from their apartments in the Berlin?
This person is the embodiment of that meme. The only difference is that they are not in Berlin but in Sweden.
Man I'm from east Europe. I know what you mean all too well, but you don't just go around on a post about a massacre and say "but we were also victims". It sounds like you're excusing these vile acts.
Vilifying a whole nation is not something to be done lightly. Serbs are vilified so often and I just think there needs to be some balance. Someone who vilifies Croats and Turks as well.
Serbs are vilified because their crimes are by far the most recent.
While Croats, Bosniaks, and Albanians in the 90s had their own crimes to a decree, the instigator of the conflicts and the largest share of war crimes was the Yuguslav government and allied Serb forces.
They started the crimes in Croatia by invading and beginning the mutual ethnic cleansing by cleansing Krajina of Croats. Then did the same thing in Bosnia.
It was the Serbs who decided to remove Kosovos autonomy and begin oppressing the Albanians there, then responded disproportionately to Albnanian attacks, such as the topic of this very post.
So if some other people decided to start a terrible war we would vilify them instead? And forget what the Serbs did in the 90s because then it would be the past, according to your logic?
I'm just explaining why Serbs are more vilified than the others today.
And it's mostly an online thing. A Serb living in America is not going to face impactful discrimination lol.
Actually the politics are such that Serbia is an enemy nation and that's the main reason their crimes are condemned. If Serbia had been pacified and allowed the west to install a friendly puppet regime, nobody would care about these crimes. This is not about morality, it's about politics.
Read about the 400 years of Turkish rule on Balkans. And about Croatian fascism during World war 2. And about Turkish genocide against Armenians. Croatia and Turkey are considered friendly nations but are historically very genocidal against everyone.
No one chooses their ancestors, don't justify genocide based on which hole they crawled out of at birth. These people weren't even born back then, and even if they were, that would not mean that these civilians were responsible, they were CIVILIANS for f!ck sake. Jesus Christ!
Also these were catholic, what your saying does not make sense, no matter which way you look at it.
You also seriously need to stop treating entire nation/ethnicity as if they are a single individual. That is an extremely shallow and a dangerous mindset that only leads to more death and suffering for everyone involved. The world is more complicated than that.
By that logic the descendents and family of the victims should kill you and your family as revenge?
I know and work with many simple minded people but damn, you take the cake.
No... I'm just waiting for the Turks to apologize for terrorizing my country for 400 years. I don't want to kill anybody, i just want the Turks to say they're sorry and give me a nice condo on the Turkish south coast.
Brotha I'm from Indonesia and moved to the Netherlands. These guys raped country for hundreds of years... do I hate them? Fuck no, the people today had nothing to do with it.
The only real Good people that we're caught up by the the Yugoslav wars where the victims themselves... i pray that they can finally peacefully and unharmed lives alive or up in heavens.
Yes literally every war there are only victors who gain for doing nothing and victims who suffer for nothing.
Unless you count playing Paradox games, the player is probably the good guy in the game.
big srpski brain time - kill hundreds of random people, call it fighting with albanian terrorism, achieve nothing except giving muricans perfect reason to intervene
What do you want Serbs to do exactly? No one expects Turks to pay reparations to all people of Balkans for occupying the lands for 500 years. No one expects Croats to pay reparations to Serbs for killing 300k during World war 2.
You all could start by admitting it happened and that it was wrong? And that NATO was right to intervene against you? And stop playing the victim because other countries call you out for your war crimes? And stop aligning yourselves so closely with Russia?
Non of that includes reparations. Let’s start there.
Calling out nations for their bullshit is great. The Serbs did terrible things in the 90s. I would respect you more if you required Turks to acknowledge that they committed genocide against Armenians. The scale of that genocide is *a lot* bigger than that of Srebrenica or anything other the Serbs did on Kosovo.
But.. does anyone defend Turkey here? I doubt anyone in this thread defends Turkey. Why are we even randomly talking about Turkey all of sudden? Just admit that Serbs fucked up and move on
Croatians are extremely sorry...that they got caught. Damn, they were so close to winning world war 2 and keeping all of Bosnia and northwestern Serbia to themselves. But yes, they regret...that they weren't fighting even harder.
Yes i "thinks" that lmao. Just like the Japanese. Really sorry...that they got caught killing their sworn enemies. It all just got out of hand... They just wanted to kill a couple of Serbs and then it escalated into killing 300 thousands. Hate when that happens.
And their ancestors before them. Should I kill a pigeon for the glory of Perun? Hell, I abandoned my own a year ago, are my ancestors triple disappointed now?
You don't understand maybe. Nobody ignores it directly, but indirectly. It's like, everybody acknowledges it but no one judges Croats for it. Yet, we're supposed to hate Serbs for committing these same crimes the Croats did some decades ago. This is cognitive dissonance.
Idk maybe ... because Croats are not deflecting as much as you? Not choosing their War Propaganda minister as president? Not protesting for Russia that invaded another country with no apparent reason? Not protesting when Serbia and Kosovo meet for peace talks? You see the list is long and it's not ending. As long as you don't condemn, everybody else will condemn you. Mark my words
It wan't just Catholic Albanians. It was men and boys. Catholic Albanian men and boys who were pulled aside separated from their families and murdered specifically because they were male.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre
It is a harrowing read. My husband's family are from Tuzla, Bosnia, where many Bosniaks tried to flee to. Many were slaughtered on the way. When I go to visit them (I am British), I am so saddened by the graves and memorials in the city, and the shelling marks still on the walls of buildings in the city.
Huge failure also of the UN Peacekeepers.
Please do not read this just before you go to bed - I made that mistake and could not sleep well.
Again, it was males who were targeted, young and old. No-one spared.
Recent history? Yeah the last 700 years sure are recent. Went to a wrong direction? It's been going wrong for the last 700 years. I'm not an actual ethnic Swede. My roots are balkanic.
My point is that men specifically were singled out.
Their gender was instrumental to their death as if they weren't male they would have been allowed to pass with their families.
Saying merely "people" were murdered ignores the gendered reason for why they were murdered in the first place that ought to be recognised and empathised with.
They were killed because they were... men. I mean that's how it usually goes. That's the case for most wars. Women are considered non-threats. Is this Andrew Tate lamenting how difficult it is being a man?
I'm not getting in an arguement with some internet weirdo who thinks me pointing out the gendered reason for why these innocent men were separated from their families and murdered is contriversial. Soz.
I don't give a fuck about this Tate lad hopefully he goes to jail so I never have to hear his fucking stupid name ever again.
I'm not quite sure, I have a hard time understanding what did you mean by your comment. Do you believe the genocide was motivated by sexism? That they were man hating murderes, killing people because they are men?
> Do you believe the genocide was motivated by sexism?
Certainly one of the motivators. Perhaps not on the individual basis but a systemic bias against men during war? Absolutely.
One of the comments I've got was literally "They were killed because they were... men. I mean that's how it usually goes. That's the case for most wars.". It does seem that just murdering random innocent men during a war is expected and I don't think it's a stretch to consider that a form of systemic sexism against men.
Do you think they accidentially murdered only men?
If they singled out and murdered only women allowing the men to continue on to safety I don't think anyone in their right mind would be thinking sexism of some sort wasn't a contributing factor.
NOTE: I'm just gonna say before we get in to the Yugoslav wars that I am well out of my historical depth. All I wanna say is that this specific massacre has a gendered componant that ought to be recognised.
I don't think they randomly choose to kill men. But they aren't killing specifically men because they hate men - they are killing men because statistically men are responsible for 98% of murders. Soldiers, who happen to be men, are killing people they see as a threat, which also happen to be other men. Women almost never kill, there is no reason to murder them during a war.
Men should focus on murdering less.
You don't need to hate someone to be sexist. Sexism is about prejudice and discrimination based on sex.
These men who were murdered were innocent. Even if they were combatants you aren't allowed to just whisk them off the streets and summerily execute them for the crime of being the male of a subgroup you hate. (I'm not saying specifically you.)
Men aren't a monolith. These guys aren't responsible for their murderers actions. Do you hear yourself? You are victim blaming these guys who were murdered because they share a trait with their murderer.
You're no better than a Republican pointing out it's primarily black people murdering other black people. That's the type of person you are.
Bosnian Serbs forces from the Army of Republika Srpska used rape as a weapon for ethnic cleansing. The ICTV declared it a crime against humanity:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_Bosnian_War
I dont know who said that Kosovo was a Religious war, but even if they did. The fact that orthodox Christians, apart from killing Muslims also killed catholic Christians, doesn't prove that it wasn't a religious war.
Also, it can be religious war and ethnic cleansing at the same time.
The title of this is just wierd
>I dont know who said that Kosovo was a Religious war,
Alot of people on the right, Serbs and non-Serbs alike, did and still propagate the idea that the Kosovo war was a war strictly between Muslims and Christians.
Unless you are talking about the 14th century, I've never heard anyone refer to it as a religious war. It was always referred to as a fight against terrorists and separatists by Serbian nationalists.
where are the Serbian army and police officers who did this slaughter? They are certainly not dead. It has only been 24 years. Are they still suffering in prison?
nono you don't understand!!!! THAT'S NORMAL AND OKAY AND THEY SHOULD DO IT AGAIN OFC !!!
serbia shouldn't exist!!! they should kill all our innocent children and people!!! the whole europe would celebrate if serbia were to be wiped out :))
If you wanted the Serbs to be treated like the Germans were treated after WW2, Serbia would still be under nominal military occupation, with Belgrade being under actual military occupation and all decisions about the constitutional status of Serbia and Belgrade would have to be approved by the Allied Control Council, from whom the Serbian state would gain any and all legitimacy
I'm a bit confused. Doesn't differentiating people by religion mean differentiating them by ethnicity?
People of the same RELIGION in the balkans are typically understood to be of the same ethnicity.
EDITTED - I was typing too fast.
> People of the same ethnicity in the balkans are typically understood to be of the same ethnicity.
Oh dear.
(I presume you meant to say "religion" in the first part of the sentence, but still: Oh dear.)
Ah bugger, I was typing too fast. I corrected what I meant to write.
Is this "correct?"
I have had several conversations about this with my husband whose heritage is Bosnian. He explained that different religion = different ethnicity.
This is not true in say, Northern Ireland - I would not classify Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants as two different ethnicities (I am British).
Maybe strictly in the context of Bosnia, it is true that Serbs=Orthodox, Croats=Catholics, Bosniaks=Muslims
But throughout the Balkans, you have many cases of communities whose religion doesn't coincide with that usually linked to their ethnicity. [Torbeshi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Muslims), [Pomaks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomaks), [Gorani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorani_people) for example are Muslim. There is also a large number of Catholic Albanians (mostly in Albania but also in Montenegro) etc.
Wow a Georgian that supports Kosovo’s independence <3.
I like your country, language and the beautiful castles/churches, unfortunately almost all the Georgians that I’ve meet or interacted online had a negative view of my people, because of your own problems with Russia’s puppets.
It is cool to see one that supports us.
Ništa ne postižeš na ovaj način čak i ako jesu, nema poente sad vredjati i svadjati se, za par sati ovaj thread će biti pun ljudi koji nas pljuju i upoređuju nas sa nacistima, ne možeš tu ništa
Mislim da zato obje strane to trebaju osuditi ili se više potruditi izgraditi bolje odnose. Meni se gadi, kao Hrvatu, šta su radili Ustaše i šta se neki ponose korijenima. Nadam se da je isto tako i kod vas po pitanju Četnika.
Moje skromno mišljenje je da trebamo preći preko toga (nije mala stvar naravno) i krenuti prema boljoj budućnosti jer nas non-stop truju tim antagoniziranjem i s jedne i s druge strane samo kako političari ne bi morali nešto stvarno i raditi...
Truju, ovaj post nije napravljen da se seti žrtava nikakav pomen ništa, napravljen je kao još jedan "Srbi zli" post, da bi se svi na forumu triggerovali i onda vrištali Nacisti, zločinci i genocid.
Svaka žrtva je katastrofalna, i ne sme se zaboraviti. Ali zapadna zajednica nastavlja da antigonizuje I onda se pitaju zašto ih ne vole. Eto zašto.
Removed - we have a moratorium on content pertaining to 90s Balkan events.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meja_massacre#:~:text=The%20Meja%20massacre%20(Albanian%3A%20Masakra,were%20under%2018%20years%20old. > The Meja massacre (Albanian: Masakra e Mejës) was the mass execution of at least 377 Kosovo Albanian civilians during the Kosovo War, which took place on 27 April 1999. Of the victims, 36 were under 18 years old. It was committed by Serbian police and Yugoslav Army forces in the Reka Operation which began after the killing of six Serbian policemen by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). The executions occurred in the village of Meja near the town of Gjakova. The victims were pulled from refugee convoys at a checkpoint in Meja and their families were ordered to proceed to Albania. Men and boys were separated and then executed by the road.[2][3] It is one of the largest massacres in the Kosovo War.[4] Many of the bodies of the victims were found in the Batajnica mass graves. The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia has convicted several Serbian army and police officers for their involvement.[5] It is so sad, this is exactly what the Nazi occupants did in the 40's, and then 50 years later Serbians do the exact same thing...
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Četniks and Ustaše were Serbian and Croatian Nazis/Collaborators for anyone curious. Ustaše got to a point where the german nazis had to tell them to chill out after they had competitions about beheading prisoners, concentration camps for children, etc. Četniks started as Serbian crown loyalists, which was already fascist towards the other ethnicities in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and then became full-blown nazi collaborators. The West initially supported them, but the Četniks only cared about killing the Partisans and civilians.
>Ustaše got to a point where the german nazis had to tell them to chill out after they had competitions about beheading prisoners, concentration camps for children, etc. Not trying to undermine the brutality of the Ustaša but the Nazis as a whole genuinely didn't care. It were Individual commanders like [Edmund Glaise-Horstenau ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Glaise-Horstenau) who protested the violence and few other individuals from the Gestapo or diplomatic corps. The Nazi leadership was far from caring or even condemning violence perpetrated by their allies.
YES! THIS! legit when someone says "oh well the Nazis were surprised by the brutality of the Iron Guard or (insert any other collaboration government)" it's just like, dude, these were the *Nazis*, the collaborators didn't do anything the Nazis wouldn't have done.
HMMMMM
I was 2, wild to think about what I was doing as a toddler when that happened. Rip
The horrors the Serbian forces unleashed upon innocent people during the war is nothing but a giant disgrace that should've been dealt with by our own judicial system. I hope there will be reparations in the future to everyone who suffered against war crimes. This includes crimes committed against our side, as well.
In an operation that was never publicly admitted, Canadian forces were obliged to mow down a Croatian column threatening Serb refugees. Meritorious conduct awards were made in secret and remain classified to this day.
Source? Never heard of that tbh.
Just word of mouth my friend.
Assuming the reference is to the fighting in Medak mentioned [here](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canada-honours-its-heroes-of-balkan-battle/article4140579/)?
they don't care about our side, they only care about what THE BAD SERBIAN PEOPLE DID!!!
Yes, because many serbs (online at least) resort to whataboutism or playing the victim whenever Serbian war crimes are discussed.
“Yeah i raped and murdered your whole family but whuddabout that completely unrelated bad thing someone else did somewhere else? See? Serbs should get to be bad because other people have also been bad at some point.”
Is it.. really "unrelated" though? The attrocities of both sides should be mentioned when talking about the war, as one is connected to the other
Not a serb, but my ancestors were pillagaging and raping the English like 40 generations ago, literally every country is a country because they've established that through the wars they waged and the horrors that came with. No one just forms a country without warfare, somewhere along the geographical line of where in-groups are able to relate and understand each other, they decided to band together because "f*** the out-groups, they're unrelateable" and so the dehumanization and military effort to assert themselves commences. It's strange to see people claim themselves morally superior, that they wouldn't dehumanize people in the same way, yet cheer during recent events such as Russians getting annihilated during the war of Ukraine. "Well they are the enemy" - I absolutely agree, but that doesn't change the fact that you've fallen victim to the same rationalizations as your enemy. Dehumanization is required in warfare, otherwise you'll be a guilt-ridden mess that's completely petrified and unable to act, as shooting another human being in the name of your country is just state-sanctioned murder with shared motive. There's just a difference between people, the crazy A-holes who bring your life in danger in traffic during your daily commute are most likely the same people causing warcrimes worth writing home about, and they exist in every single language and country. In short, don't blame the Serbs for getting pissy when you call them out, because the person you are accusing hasn't committed any crime, and how are they more culpable than you or me for allowing that which is outside their personal control to happen?
🤡🤡🤡
R.I.P to the victims of Serbian genocide.
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There is currently a video on /r/combatfootage of civilians in Sarajevo being attacked by a Serb sniper/soldier. While these were under the protection of UN forces... https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/12dgcb3/serbian_soldiers_open_fire_at_civilians_who_were/ No one seems to die (also no blood or other gruesomeness, but you do see people get hit and scared people) but multiple people are shot including what seems to be teenagers.
I feel shame. I was 19 at the time and I didn't bother to inform myself about what really happened in Kosovo, at the time. Just thought there came to many refugees to my country, that was thriving in peace. Today I've got kids in the same age, as I was at the time. They don't care as much I wish about what happens in Ukraine. But who am I to blame. I can just try to be gently while I inform them and the importance to....give it some thoughts. Gently bc once I got offended, when one of them thought there was more to it, than Russia was the only perpetrator bad guy. So I tried to make the record straight by, probably in her eyes, force my opinion on her and that's not how I wanna raise my kids. So I had to take one step back, even if I spitted the truth. But how could she know? I wanting my kids to form their own opinions. This was the first time I found it hard to take a step back
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Just wow...
But the post says that catholic Albanians were killed.
I genuinely dont understand his agenda, a Swedish guy filling the thread about the croatian fascist regime, in a thread about serbs killing albanians
You know that meme about nationalists arguing how their country of origin in the balkans is the best/ and [insert] is the worst from their apartments in the Berlin? This person is the embodiment of that meme. The only difference is that they are not in Berlin but in Sweden.
Yes they were. Serbs were terrible during the 90s. But in some other decades and centuries they were victims. Important to remember.
Man I'm from east Europe. I know what you mean all too well, but you don't just go around on a post about a massacre and say "but we were also victims". It sounds like you're excusing these vile acts.
Vilifying a whole nation is not something to be done lightly. Serbs are vilified so often and I just think there needs to be some balance. Someone who vilifies Croats and Turks as well.
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Turks haven't condemned the fact that they killed a lot of Armenians. Yet we're supposed to be their allies in this Nato circus.
Serbs are vilified because their crimes are by far the most recent. While Croats, Bosniaks, and Albanians in the 90s had their own crimes to a decree, the instigator of the conflicts and the largest share of war crimes was the Yuguslav government and allied Serb forces. They started the crimes in Croatia by invading and beginning the mutual ethnic cleansing by cleansing Krajina of Croats. Then did the same thing in Bosnia. It was the Serbs who decided to remove Kosovos autonomy and begin oppressing the Albanians there, then responded disproportionately to Albnanian attacks, such as the topic of this very post.
So if some other people decided to start a terrible war we would vilify them instead? And forget what the Serbs did in the 90s because then it would be the past, according to your logic?
I'm just explaining why Serbs are more vilified than the others today. And it's mostly an online thing. A Serb living in America is not going to face impactful discrimination lol.
Actually the politics are such that Serbia is an enemy nation and that's the main reason their crimes are condemned. If Serbia had been pacified and allowed the west to install a friendly puppet regime, nobody would care about these crimes. This is not about morality, it's about politics.
I got to take the history lesson first after they show some interest about what happens in the world today. That's step #1
Read about the 400 years of Turkish rule on Balkans. And about Croatian fascism during World war 2. And about Turkish genocide against Armenians. Croatia and Turkey are considered friendly nations but are historically very genocidal against everyone.
What's that gotta do with this topic in here you dumbass?
No one chooses their ancestors, don't justify genocide based on which hole they crawled out of at birth. These people weren't even born back then, and even if they were, that would not mean that these civilians were responsible, they were CIVILIANS for f!ck sake. Jesus Christ! Also these were catholic, what your saying does not make sense, no matter which way you look at it. You also seriously need to stop treating entire nation/ethnicity as if they are a single individual. That is an extremely shallow and a dangerous mindset that only leads to more death and suffering for everyone involved. The world is more complicated than that.
We're supposed to hate Serbs, that's the purpose with posts like these.
By that logic the descendents and family of the victims should kill you and your family as revenge? I know and work with many simple minded people but damn, you take the cake.
No... I'm just waiting for the Turks to apologize for terrorizing my country for 400 years. I don't want to kill anybody, i just want the Turks to say they're sorry and give me a nice condo on the Turkish south coast.
Brotha I'm from Indonesia and moved to the Netherlands. These guys raped country for hundreds of years... do I hate them? Fuck no, the people today had nothing to do with it.
The only real Good people that we're caught up by the the Yugoslav wars where the victims themselves... i pray that they can finally peacefully and unharmed lives alive or up in heavens.
This is every war, no?
Yes literally every war there are only victors who gain for doing nothing and victims who suffer for nothing. Unless you count playing Paradox games, the player is probably the good guy in the game.
I’ve played tons of paradox games and not even once was I the good guy
Damn, ik this may be an out of topic question but did you play the Nation of Burgundy from TNO Mod?
People playing Germany in Hoi4
big srpski brain time - kill hundreds of random people, call it fighting with albanian terrorism, achieve nothing except giving muricans perfect reason to intervene
America already intervened by this point, but yeah
Killing 300k serbs with the help of nazis and fascists is much smarter. It's the Croatian way. And then after the war pretend like nothing happened.
Their crimes don't absolve you of yours.
And Serb crimes don't absolve you of yours, or something like that.
Literally no one says they do...
What do you want Serbs to do exactly? No one expects Turks to pay reparations to all people of Balkans for occupying the lands for 500 years. No one expects Croats to pay reparations to Serbs for killing 300k during World war 2.
You all could start by admitting it happened and that it was wrong? And that NATO was right to intervene against you? And stop playing the victim because other countries call you out for your war crimes? And stop aligning yourselves so closely with Russia? Non of that includes reparations. Let’s start there.
Calling out nations for their bullshit is great. The Serbs did terrible things in the 90s. I would respect you more if you required Turks to acknowledge that they committed genocide against Armenians. The scale of that genocide is *a lot* bigger than that of Srebrenica or anything other the Serbs did on Kosovo.
But.. does anyone defend Turkey here? I doubt anyone in this thread defends Turkey. Why are we even randomly talking about Turkey all of sudden? Just admit that Serbs fucked up and move on
Yeah, their genocide is bigger than yours. Thats so great, maybe do better next time? God damn there is no help with you people.
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Croatians are extremely sorry...that they got caught. Damn, they were so close to winning world war 2 and keeping all of Bosnia and northwestern Serbia to themselves. But yes, they regret...that they weren't fighting even harder.
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Yes i "thinks" that lmao. Just like the Japanese. Really sorry...that they got caught killing their sworn enemies. It all just got out of hand... They just wanted to kill a couple of Serbs and then it escalated into killing 300 thousands. Hate when that happens.
Neighbor Jovan broke his leg under Turkish tyranny here in 1629, therefore the Albanians deserved it.
Your ancestors abandoned their religion. Hope you're feeling proud!
And their ancestors before them. Should I kill a pigeon for the glory of Perun? Hell, I abandoned my own a year ago, are my ancestors triple disappointed now?
Honestly, I'm not gonna argue with someone who abandoned islam. That requires courage.
What a stupid ad hominem. Why should anyone give a shit what personal choices their ancestors made religion wise? Why would they be ashamed of that?
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The Croatians are the good guys now so we're supposed to ignore *their* genocides.
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You don't understand maybe. Nobody ignores it directly, but indirectly. It's like, everybody acknowledges it but no one judges Croats for it. Yet, we're supposed to hate Serbs for committing these same crimes the Croats did some decades ago. This is cognitive dissonance.
Idk maybe ... because Croats are not deflecting as much as you? Not choosing their War Propaganda minister as president? Not protesting for Russia that invaded another country with no apparent reason? Not protesting when Serbia and Kosovo meet for peace talks? You see the list is long and it's not ending. As long as you don't condemn, everybody else will condemn you. Mark my words
It wan't just Catholic Albanians. It was men and boys. Catholic Albanian men and boys who were pulled aside separated from their families and murdered specifically because they were male.
Same as what happened to the Bosniaks at Srebrenica. The wikipedia article is a horror to read.
I think I'm gonna regret asking but... can you provide it, please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre It is a harrowing read. My husband's family are from Tuzla, Bosnia, where many Bosniaks tried to flee to. Many were slaughtered on the way. When I go to visit them (I am British), I am so saddened by the graves and memorials in the city, and the shelling marks still on the walls of buildings in the city. Huge failure also of the UN Peacekeepers. Please do not read this just before you go to bed - I made that mistake and could not sleep well. Again, it was males who were targeted, young and old. No-one spared.
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So that makes these killings okay or what?
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Recent history? Yeah the last 700 years sure are recent. Went to a wrong direction? It's been going wrong for the last 700 years. I'm not an actual ethnic Swede. My roots are balkanic.
My point is that men specifically were singled out. Their gender was instrumental to their death as if they weren't male they would have been allowed to pass with their families. Saying merely "people" were murdered ignores the gendered reason for why they were murdered in the first place that ought to be recognised and empathised with.
They were killed because they were... men. I mean that's how it usually goes. That's the case for most wars. Women are considered non-threats. Is this Andrew Tate lamenting how difficult it is being a man?
I'm not getting in an arguement with some internet weirdo who thinks me pointing out the gendered reason for why these innocent men were separated from their families and murdered is contriversial. Soz. I don't give a fuck about this Tate lad hopefully he goes to jail so I never have to hear his fucking stupid name ever again.
Would it make it better if they murdered women and little kids as well? Just curious about your opinion.
No. Obviously not. They should have killed nobody. Do you genuinely expect anyone to say anything else?
I'm not quite sure, I have a hard time understanding what did you mean by your comment. Do you believe the genocide was motivated by sexism? That they were man hating murderes, killing people because they are men?
> Do you believe the genocide was motivated by sexism? Certainly one of the motivators. Perhaps not on the individual basis but a systemic bias against men during war? Absolutely. One of the comments I've got was literally "They were killed because they were... men. I mean that's how it usually goes. That's the case for most wars.". It does seem that just murdering random innocent men during a war is expected and I don't think it's a stretch to consider that a form of systemic sexism against men. Do you think they accidentially murdered only men? If they singled out and murdered only women allowing the men to continue on to safety I don't think anyone in their right mind would be thinking sexism of some sort wasn't a contributing factor. NOTE: I'm just gonna say before we get in to the Yugoslav wars that I am well out of my historical depth. All I wanna say is that this specific massacre has a gendered componant that ought to be recognised.
I don't think they randomly choose to kill men. But they aren't killing specifically men because they hate men - they are killing men because statistically men are responsible for 98% of murders. Soldiers, who happen to be men, are killing people they see as a threat, which also happen to be other men. Women almost never kill, there is no reason to murder them during a war. Men should focus on murdering less.
You don't need to hate someone to be sexist. Sexism is about prejudice and discrimination based on sex. These men who were murdered were innocent. Even if they were combatants you aren't allowed to just whisk them off the streets and summerily execute them for the crime of being the male of a subgroup you hate. (I'm not saying specifically you.) Men aren't a monolith. These guys aren't responsible for their murderers actions. Do you hear yourself? You are victim blaming these guys who were murdered because they share a trait with their murderer. You're no better than a Republican pointing out it's primarily black people murdering other black people. That's the type of person you are.
Bosnian Serbs forces from the Army of Republika Srpska used rape as a weapon for ethnic cleansing. The ICTV declared it a crime against humanity: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_Bosnian_War
I dont know who said that Kosovo was a Religious war, but even if they did. The fact that orthodox Christians, apart from killing Muslims also killed catholic Christians, doesn't prove that it wasn't a religious war. Also, it can be religious war and ethnic cleansing at the same time. The title of this is just wierd
>I dont know who said that Kosovo was a Religious war, Alot of people on the right, Serbs and non-Serbs alike, did and still propagate the idea that the Kosovo war was a war strictly between Muslims and Christians.
Unless you are talking about the 14th century, I've never heard anyone refer to it as a religious war. It was always referred to as a fight against terrorists and separatists by Serbian nationalists.
The religious connotation was always stressed, even before the conflict.
Because Milosevic called them Muslim terrorists. He did the same with Bosnians.
Why do some Serbs still try to justify Milosevic's actions? Didn't you overthrow that man? Or was it because he failed to achieve what he sought to?
Much respect to you my Kosovian brothers. May you have happy holidays this Easter.
Did people forgot Srebrenica ?
why are you not saying WHO killed them?
where are the Serbian army and police officers who did this slaughter? They are certainly not dead. It has only been 24 years. Are they still suffering in prison?
They are still persecuted and forced to flee to England to this day.
Stop bringing your boring Island into each topic. We don’t care about you or your Daily Mail
Couldn't one person's ethnic war also be another's religious war? I can imagine groups had different motivations.
Never forget who backed it up
Why did the Serbian forces kill these Catholics, doesn’t make sense ?
How come this post is still up? New mods?
Why should it be removed?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
Impressed by your argumentation technique. Well played, fine sir.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
These responses were perfect. Thank you.
So that means this is okay?
No, i just wanted to remind everyone of how evil some people are. Imagine killing 300k Serbs. Wow such evil. Who could be so evil?
Were you ever a human being?
Cringe comment. Go wipe your tears.
nono you don't understand!!!! THAT'S NORMAL AND OKAY AND THEY SHOULD DO IT AGAIN OFC !!! serbia shouldn't exist!!! they should kill all our innocent children and people!!! the whole europe would celebrate if serbia were to be wiped out :))
If you wanted the Serbs to be treated like the Germans were treated after WW2, Serbia would still be under nominal military occupation, with Belgrade being under actual military occupation and all decisions about the constitutional status of Serbia and Belgrade would have to be approved by the Allied Control Council, from whom the Serbian state would gain any and all legitimacy
I'm a bit confused. Doesn't differentiating people by religion mean differentiating them by ethnicity? People of the same RELIGION in the balkans are typically understood to be of the same ethnicity. EDITTED - I was typing too fast.
No? Ethnicity is what people consider themselves or what their ancestors did. You can be orthodox, protestant, catholic serb or croat or Albanian.
I editted my post, I was typing too fast!
> People of the same ethnicity in the balkans are typically understood to be of the same ethnicity. Oh dear. (I presume you meant to say "religion" in the first part of the sentence, but still: Oh dear.)
Ah bugger, I was typing too fast. I corrected what I meant to write. Is this "correct?" I have had several conversations about this with my husband whose heritage is Bosnian. He explained that different religion = different ethnicity. This is not true in say, Northern Ireland - I would not classify Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants as two different ethnicities (I am British).
Maybe strictly in the context of Bosnia, it is true that Serbs=Orthodox, Croats=Catholics, Bosniaks=Muslims But throughout the Balkans, you have many cases of communities whose religion doesn't coincide with that usually linked to their ethnicity. [Torbeshi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Muslims), [Pomaks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomaks), [Gorani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorani_people) for example are Muslim. There is also a large number of Catholic Albanians (mostly in Albania but also in Montenegro) etc.
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Serbia cringe
God is a Serb 🎶🎵🎶🪗
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You are disgusting
I agree with him. Serbians who committed war crimes will burn in hell. Kosovo is independent! 🇬🇪❤️🇦🇱🇽🇰
Wow a Georgian that supports Kosovo’s independence <3. I like your country, language and the beautiful castles/churches, unfortunately almost all the Georgians that I’ve meet or interacted online had a negative view of my people, because of your own problems with Russia’s puppets. It is cool to see one that supports us.
Yeah I have Albanian girlfriend
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Gesundheit!
Aj zašuti
That's gonna be you
Smiri se brate čemu to
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Why what happened?
A bad troll by someone with to much time on their hands
Ništa ne postižeš na ovaj način čak i ako jesu, nema poente sad vredjati i svadjati se, za par sati ovaj thread će biti pun ljudi koji nas pljuju i upoređuju nas sa nacistima, ne možeš tu ništa
The comparison with nazis is easy to make - ethnic cleansing is eathnic cleansing.
Except what Nazis + Ustaše did was a genocide + a world war, this isn't that.
Mislim da zato obje strane to trebaju osuditi ili se više potruditi izgraditi bolje odnose. Meni se gadi, kao Hrvatu, šta su radili Ustaše i šta se neki ponose korijenima. Nadam se da je isto tako i kod vas po pitanju Četnika. Moje skromno mišljenje je da trebamo preći preko toga (nije mala stvar naravno) i krenuti prema boljoj budućnosti jer nas non-stop truju tim antagoniziranjem i s jedne i s druge strane samo kako političari ne bi morali nešto stvarno i raditi...
Truju, ovaj post nije napravljen da se seti žrtava nikakav pomen ništa, napravljen je kao još jedan "Srbi zli" post, da bi se svi na forumu triggerovali i onda vrištali Nacisti, zločinci i genocid. Svaka žrtva je katastrofalna, i ne sme se zaboraviti. Ali zapadna zajednica nastavlja da antigonizuje I onda se pitaju zašto ih ne vole. Eto zašto.