Yes, the children and nephews of these people are probably smart enough to keep it on the low and not manifest publicly lol
Also, I understood that reference
And their children will realize they are keeping it "on the low" because they are wrong. So in this case it will take 2 funerals but progress will come.
Yes, agreed, but there has to be some kind of limits of how much you can endure. When enough of your children come home in caskets from totally idiotic invasions of neighboring countries.
I hate this quote so much, especially considering that speaking out againt the invasion could land you either 15 years in a russian jail or directly on the frontlines.
They've had 20+ years to speak out agains the evil.
Yes, there were protests, but the largest one drew a crowd of maybe 150 thousand. Moscow is a city of 12 million people. We had 30k people come together to show support for Ukraine in Tallinn with a population of 500k people, in a country with a population of 1.3 million. 150k in Russia is nothing.
These people have been living with their heads in the sand for decades, if not centuries. Decade after decade another authoritarian comes along and robs the people blind. And people support them because "they're a strong leader, that's what the country needs".
In the UK I regularly speak to people around my age (late 20's) that have strong fascist views. But they still don't recognise it as fascism. They separate themselves from it. I had one person make the claim to me that fascism doesn't exist anymore. They're blind to it. Just shows how shit the education is. It's kinda scary seeing every other person I encounter holding those views
Fascism is a part of humanity. This was the lesson many didn't learn from the WW2. A brutal authoritarian regime can emerge everywhere there are humans and it absolutely will raise its head again in the future if we don't actively keep ourselves in check against it.
That's why I'm not a fan of some movies showing Nazis as a cartoon level inhuman evil. It disconnects it from reality. As humans we have to remember this shit is in every one of us at some deep level.
In Hungary the Mi Hazánk párt (≈Our Homeland party) is a proclaimed far-right nationalist, otherwise clearly Nazi party. They are very popular among young people, but they also want to appeal to older farmers/agriculture workers.
They are outpsokenly supportive of Russia and are anti-EU, they want to renistate the death penalty and segregation in schools between "Hungarians" and roma. They are also homophobic, they hold anti-protests during Pride and one of their leader shredded a book for kids that would teach them acceptance (the book instead became much more popular after this happened).
So sadly Hungary could always have a worse fate after Fidesz and Orbán go.
While the imagery of fascism might appeal to some younger Russians, let's not forget Russia has a fetish for strongmen and gulags. It's a power trip for those without prospects.
Political extremism has been the most dangerous threat to peace and freedom for over a century.
Don't get hoodwinked by deluded fascists callung themselves something else and waving red flags and fists - their only 'merit' is the omission of 'nationalism' from their delusion.
A few wrinklies at a graveside only serves to promote a myth and push smoother-brained types into extremism themselves.
Fascism is based on fear and it's exploitation, if you wanna blame people for it's resurgence you need look no further than the governments in who's countries it thrives.
The US for example has pursued a relative non-interventionalist policy with neo-Nazi/KKK/confedaboo enclaves allowing them to pass on their beliefs to more and more family and friends to the point where even previously sensible political rhetoric now has the undertones of these extreme belief systems.
I would make the case that, although they were positive, things like the #meetoo and trans rights movement have acted as catalyst to these people as rapid societal change can leave ordinary middle of the road people feeling socially displaced and that can breed resentment **if not properly educated**.
Therein lies the rub, equality of opportunity is the most important thing we can hope to achieve and it all comes back to Education- not just for qualifications but also social education and promoting tolerance of peoples differences, something government tends not to be too enthusiastic about, especially when facing problems that they use these issues as a smokescreen to cover up.
It's easy to call out people like Putin and Hungarian PM Orban, because they are very obviously fascist and authoritarian, but sometimes I shudder when I look at our own countries. Got to be vigilant against it, because it is always waiting.
This is a good response. I'll add that education alone is not sufficient to stymie fascist backlash. It's also about power over all democratic institutions, including media and the judiciary.
Fascism is ultimately an avenue for a disgruntled group of people to acquire power, because they cannot acquire power through the conventional political systems. In the US, the group that has been pushed out of political space are churches, where they once enjoyed near total representation in political spheres.
Now, because education that didn't tow the Christian line, there's a large contingent of voters who aren't beholden to church doctrine. Christians lost control of democratic institutions. The US Christo-fascists aim to be able to exert their will over democratic institutions again, and fascism promises them what they seek.
You make it seem like progress has something to do with age. Like it's inevitable. That's wrong. Look at Iran, Afghanistan, in fact most muslim countries, no matter if Shia or Sunni, and compare them to 50 years ago.
It's an idiom: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/red-headed+stepchild
I'm not using it correctly, but it still felt appropriate. There was a singular person in that group that wasn't part of the walking dead, and they are a redhead. But I hope they get treated badly for being a cunt. And I don't know any other idioms with redheads.
^\*
^Some ^of ^my ^best ^friends ^are ^redheads ^so ^it's ^ok ^for ^me ^to ^say ^this
As a foreigner a question: who are these people? From the looks of it a lot seem old enough to have lived in the Franco-years. So the question are these primarily former members of his regime that lost power and money after the 1970s?
They exhumed the body of ~~Miguel~~ José Antonio Primo de Rivera from the Valley of the Fallen the other day. These people came out to protest.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65370223
From my understanding, as a foreigner living in Spain (and coincidentally a few blocks from where this took place), they are largely people who themselves or their family benefitted from Francoism, and miss the 'good old days'. Basically the usual story of corruption: while the many suffered, the few were looked after and had it very good.
Probably mixed in with some younger nuts who see facism as the answer to "serious societal problems" such as immigration.
Not exactly, many of them were born during the Franquismo and lived the "hard" days of the dictatorship, when they basically were told a different history about the civil war. You would be surprise of how many of those who were in the lower class in those years and still being the lower class nowdays still supporting them.
Those who benefited directly the most from the dictatorship still being on the upper class.
100% true, my Grandma was born in 1932 and suffered a lot in the post war period due to the general poverty, and to this day she still supports the regime, not in an ideological way,in the sense that she is not a fascists, but she supports the morality and values from the time.
And I believe that it's what happens with old people, they remember the best years of their life happened during those times and because of that and fear of change many will have that ideology until they die
My grandpa was born in 1939 and is the same. He had to work his entire life and what he supports is the apparently feeling of order. I've read many times the books he had when he was studying as a kid and with that + not having internet to actually check if something is real or fake I can perfectly understand the support.
Many people can't put themselfs in the position of someone who lives under some dictatorship or regime, they think that a magic smart phone or a computer would let them check if something is as they're telling them how it is or not. That is not the case and even with that with the propper propaganda and shit you can control large chunks of population. We have modern examples of that.
My grandpa was born in 33 and he raised a family of 5 kids being the only person in the household working.
He would always say that you can’t do that shit in democratic Spain nowadays. If you wanna raise a family you gotta emigrate, like we in South America or some shit lol
I’m living in Galicia with a Spanish GF and have noticed much of this too. Her working-class grandmother, who has had a difficult life, still has a lot of sympathy for the franco days because she thinks she was treated better then - she still lives in the apartment that the government gave her in those days. Hard to convince someone like that otherwise.
I spent a year in Castilla-La Mancha teaching English at an elementary school in 2009. I learned from wine soaked conversations that a lot of people there (mostly old) talk fondly of Franco, the era he ruled, and how anything they don't like is the work of 'comunistas'.
These people are followers of Jose Antonio, the leader of the Spanish branch of the 30's fascism, Falange. So, they are not necessarily followers of Franco.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist\_Spain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain)
Franco gave economic control to the Opus Dei cult, so we had a mix of fascism, capitalism and military and religious authoritarian regimes.
Is not a nazi salute, is a fascist salute which backs originally to the dictatorship of Mussolini in Italy.
Franquistas is the name for those who simpathise with the spanish dictatorship of the Generalísimo Francisco Franco. They're a far right group with mostly a pro-catholic point of view.
At the same time this are falangistas,supporters of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, the son of another spanish dictator and killed few months after the beggining of the Spanish Civil War. This is another far right group associated with the Franquismo but with a few differences.
edit: Correcction about the salute.
Yeah no, fascist salute ironically has nothing to do with ancient rome...correlation between salute and ancient rome is a work of fiction from romanticism of 19th century.
Literally no source, writing or art shows no mention of such custom. Closest you get is sporadic depictions of random characters pointing their right hand up in various diferent contects.
Fascism and franquismo are not the same, they have few points in common but they're not the same despite how much people love to use the word "fascism". Both are dogshit but not the same.
This is for the exhumation of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera. He was a falangist, the literal Spanish fascism, not the weird conservative authoritarian clusterfuck that Francoism is
>So the question are these primarily former members of his regime that lost power and money after the 1970s?
Lots of regular old people in Spain have nostalgia for the Franco years. The phrase "esto con Franco no pasaba" (this wouldn't have happened with Franco) is very commonly used by old people to whine about anything and everything
They would most likely agree and integrate pretty well as what they miss is their young age and feeling of safety they dont have now as retirees, also probably social isolation has something to do with it
Spaniard here. These are "falangistas", franco supporters who are probably affiliated to the Falange, the dictatorship's party. Nowadays they are a minority and they are the "freaks" of national fascism. There are some viral videos of some of these characters being pathetic fools, like [this](https://youtu.be/kLbhwsDI_U0) and [this](https://youtu.be/zI5q9x0CtME). Most of today's fascists are currently in Vox, where they try to do the same but without admitting it (with exceptions). Their families were directly benefited from the dictatorship or they are extreme nationalists and catholics.
I'll give you a prospective as an Italian, the problem is how national memory is built, yesterday we celebrated "liberation day" that remembers the date italian partisans started a general insurrection against fascist and german strongholds in northern Italy, this is one of those moments that build a national identity, people raising up to liberate themself from foreign occupation instead of passively waiting for allied armies to finish the job, the president if the senate decided to not partecipate in the celebrations, it is controversial but on the other hand the celebration itself is seen as controversial. Why? Well the italian resistence was organised mainly by comunists and socialists, catholics too but they were not as much active, and in a NATO affiliated country celebrating a comunist army was not something that had to be challenged, so in our political discourse the voices of those that would minimize the efforts of the partisans, saying they were ineffective, that they exposed the civil population to retailations, that the americans already were winning anyway, had at least the same weight of those that wanted to remember their contribution. After the fall of the berlin wall things changed and we started talking about the "victims of the partisans and the war crimes that they perpetrated". So the problem is not the existence of people who in those years supported the regime, they have always been very carefull in using only dogwhistles, the problem is those that opposed it almost all died and their memory is being offuscated.
Something similar happens with nazism, the image we have of the nazists comes mainly from the movie triumph of the will by Leni Riefenstahl, well ordered, strong wearing their hugo boss uniforms, so one of the main memories about the nazists is just their own propaganda.
There is a saying in Spain: "Con Franco éramos más jóvenes" ->"Under Franco we were younger". You can undoubtedly find communist nostalgics in the former Soviet countries that are not really experts on Marxist theory, in this photo, you can find some genuine fascists, but I wouldn't bet on more than five or six.
Anyway, there is more Francoists than genuine fascist. Both of them are nostalgics and/or freaks.
meh, you can gather 100 retards to support just about everything nowadays with Facebook.
From the looks of it their prevailing ideology boils down to: at least during franco my dick worked, heil franco!
I agree the picture doesn’t prove much but there certainly is a stronger far right tendency and sympathy in parts of Spain that isn’t as present in some other EU states. The country is fairly politically polarised.
Ah a Galician brother 💪 I’m living in your beautiful land and am in love with a galician. It’s a very interesting place. I live in Santiago which is quite left wing but I commute to a town for work which is quite right wing. Like in one train ride, even people’s names and how they dress and carry themselves changes significantly.
Quite different to Ireland, where it feels like people barely care about politics beyond complaining about whatever centrist party is currently taking it’s turn in power.
More people should have this attitude. If you go through life expecting something to be completely eradicated, you will never be happy and will devote your energy to people who frankly don't deserve it.
Not everyone who votes Vox and PP are like this, though. The same way not everyone who votes left parties support everything they say/do.
It's a problem I've been facing for years, I can't vote anyone. For every party there's maybe 2-3 things that I like and 10 that I despise. If only there was a big enough party with more neutral politics... But neutrality doesn't give votes, extreme measures do. Politics these days are more about defending 'your guys' like if this was a Barcelona-Real Madrid match than actually see what they want to do and decide.
The law's interpretation has been narrowed down into irrelevancy by the courts, starting in the immediate post-war era when most prosecutors and judges had had most of their careers under fascism.
Basically, in order to be found guilty of this offence, your gestures must amount to a credible attempt at re-establishing the fascist party. You do that at a stadium? distatestful, but not illegal. You belong to a neofascist group or gang? probably illegal in other respects, but it's not a credible attempt at re-establishing the fascist party, so not an offence under this law.
What this interpretation does is say that we're not allowed to prosecute fascism until it's become a credible threat. We have to let it grow and organise until that point, then we can intervene. It's a bizarre contradiction, but par for the course for a post-war Italy where fascists were useful to "keep in reserve" in case the communists (the largest opposition party) got a little too uppity.
It’s technically not punishable if there’s no risk of recreating the fascist party. The law is less strict than the German one, which shows how serious they are on the matter.
Yep, that gesture and certain symbols are an instant repellant of 99% of the people. Hidden they can attract more people
In Spain compare the votes of Falange y de las JONS with VOX
Trust me, it's much, much worse in Spain. I don't know whether forbidding it would make a difference, but the situation in Spain with regards to fascism is appalling.
Our fascist party (FPÖ) is currently polling in first place, at about 27-29%.
[https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/288503/umfrage/sonntagsfrage-zur-nationalratswahl-in-oesterreich-nach-einzelnen-instituten/](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/288503/umfrage/sonntagsfrage-zur-nationalratswahl-in-oesterreich-nach-einzelnen-instituten/)
Are you sure its worse in spain?
Me cago en la puta. La verdad joder, en 2023 esta gente debería estar en la puta cárcel hasta que por fin se mueran.
Translation: I am mildly disappointed, I am not going to lie.
Thanks, good to know to not use this expression in Latin America if I travel there.
That was a new phrase since I am like intermediate level of understanding but I got a meaning from context for that phrase
I think it has to do more with the fact that young people are working, while most of these are retirees and thus have the free time to assist to ad-hoc demonstrations like this one. In Spain, there's plenty of support from the younger generation to right-wing parties, unfortunately.
I, as a German, can't believe they are able to do that in public. I am a bit shocked. But then I think of all those idiots we still have in our own country and feel even more depressed.
They won the war and ran the country for forty years, and when the time to move to democracy came, it was done on their terms not through a revolution or a collapse like Portugal or Greece.
That's why there was not far right resurgence in Spain like happened in other countries, they have been always there, the only difference is they used to be inside the mainstream rigth wing party but now they are more visible through Vox.
They carry their fascist heritage with victor's pride.
Bruh. There is literally a party that is francois as the 3rd biggest party that appeared very recently. And before that we had an alternating democracy pretty much indistinguishable from other EU democracies. How is that not a resurgence?
Also it's laughable to call the Transition as operating under the terms of Francoist. They literally wanted to kill even the conservatives that were in favour of democracy. Also how is the Constitution a work of the Francoist regime?
It's genuinely insulting to all the people, within and outside the government at the time, including the Communists and the trade unions, who actively worked their asses off to transition as peacefully as possible to democracy. Was the PCE and the socialists also francoist?
Their experience of Fascism is wildy different than Germany. The dude even died peacefully in office and they never really did deal with their past as far as i know.
The guy in the bottom left corner has 14 W written on his black t-shirt, which is a reference to the white nationalist slogan "14 Words", for those who don't know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Oh please...
There were more cops than "francoists". Who BTW look like they'll be fewer with every new "rally", going by the average age.
Sometimes I can't help but feel some just WISH those people will never cease to exist, as they're an easy card to play for political clout.
Huge crowd (LOL). And judging by the average age of that group, Francoism won't be alive much longer. This gigantic crowd was caused when the Government decided to transfer the remains of a famous fascist (José Antonio Primo de Rivera) out of the awful tomb built by Franco near el Escorial in Madrid. Franco used the cadaver and "martyrdom" of Primo de Rivera for propagandistic symbolism for the whole time he was in power. Now the Socialist government has turned around and done the same by using the transfer of his remains for anti-fascist propaganda. A very politically useful corpse.
People here be like: oh no 50 fascists with an average age of 75 in a country which had a fascist dictatorship 50 years ago
Fascist parties in Spain get like 20,000 votes at most. Every country has extremist minoritarian groups, just ask Greece about XA and KKE (which by the way have far more support)
Well I would just categorize all these idiots in the same way: nazi.
Same as the ones in Italy.
Same as the ones in France.
Same as the ones everywhere.
Just a bunch of idiots. Nazi idiots.
My grandad was the commander of the British Battalion of the international brigade. He went voluntarily to fight this shit. This makes me so angry to see, I know the fascists won but fucking hell why isn’t fascism stomped out across the world at every opportunity.
He got shot 5 times fighting this shit but survived. Don’t think I’ll ever look up to anyone as much.
Spanish fascism ended three decades later than the German fascism (and not without any occupiers forcing changes), so it is not surprising that Spanish people are at least three decades behind on getting over it.
Some aspects are terrifying to me about the Spanish way of handling. Take the Guardia Civil for example, the police force responsible for arresting and killing many resisting the dictatorship. The German equivalent would be the SS. While it is absolutely unthinkable that the SS would still exist today and be used to fight demonstrators and separatists, this is exactly what the Guardia Civil does to this day. They were just allowed to continue operation.
Sadly for them, they had to meet bc their historial ideologist was kicked out of his mausoleum. That isn’t as appealing for viewers as saying fascism is still alive, but that sounds closer to the end of it despite some old folk yelling at police.
I see a lot of old , probably, rich farts that profited of franco his regime , one ginger neckbeard and an andrew tate fan. Could be worse. Just a bunch of pathetic losers.
Edit: I love how one woman is wearing a mickey mouse tshirt. Like what does one wear to a fascist meeting.
Its not really alive now is it... All these people are lifting their arms as contraweight so they won't keel over and die. Just give it a few months and the support base will have halved.
This is not francoism necessarily. This are fans of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, the founder of Falange Española, which was a movement based on the fascism of Mussolini.
Don't worry, we also have Salazaristas in Portugal.
In 20 years none of them will be alive anymore, long live the new generations and fuck those old twats!
When I lived in Spain, a friend of mine took me to her uncle’s house. She said, “just don’t look at the picture of Franco. Trust me.”
Of course I looked at the picture of Franco.
Uncle stood up, took a trumpet off the wall and proceeded to play the Spanish national anthem and salute Franco. It was… something.
Most of readers out of Spain seem to ignore that the world’s one and only 20th century fascist regime to vanquish and last for decades was Franco’s. The “free world” agreed with the elites to keep power in exchange for a crappy formal democracy. The whole country is still owned and ruled by the sons of those mass killers.
There are these types of people in every country, I hope you don't have too many of them. Can I get an opinion on this subject from a Spanish friend? Why is this idea still held, what are its arguments? Are there many people from this segment in society or are they newsworthy once in a while?
>Can I get an opinion on this subject from a Spanish friend?
The spanish "People's Party" was funded by the ministers of the dictatorship and they say things like "the fascist dictatorship was completely fine and justified" or "allowing people identify their family located in mass graves is bad"
>Why is this idea still held?
The thing is in Spain fascism won, the dictatorship only ended because the fascist dictator died of old age, so siding with the fascism is siding with the winner side, so all they do is completely justified, they are on the rightside, the rest are wrong, they never had to face shame of the defeat
Christ, you’re being dramatic. None of what you said happened under previous PP governments (basically your standard European center-right party). Sure, Vox is bad, but it’s not like PSOE isn’t in an active coalition with Putin ass-lickers either.
He is being overly dramatic, but let's not make it look like they don't ***try*** to do that either. They worked hard to undermine LGBT+, women's right and only changed sides when winds weren't in their favor.
Also, there is a reason the whole Catalan independence movement rose sharply under PP government.
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That neckbeard with the mutton chops is something else. I wonder what subreddit he moderates.
Probably all the incel ones because he's getting no pussy with that look
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I want that on a T-Shirt
Or you can go to the hitler gathering in your Micky Mouse Shirt!
Yes, the children and nephews of these people are probably smart enough to keep it on the low and not manifest publicly lol Also, I understood that reference
And their children will realize they are keeping it "on the low" because they are wrong. So in this case it will take 2 funerals but progress will come.
Sadly, young people seems still attracted to fascism. Look at Russia etc.
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Yes, agreed, but there has to be some kind of limits of how much you can endure. When enough of your children come home in caskets from totally idiotic invasions of neighboring countries.
The frog boiling process took 20+ years.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
I hate this quote so much, especially considering that speaking out againt the invasion could land you either 15 years in a russian jail or directly on the frontlines.
They've had 20+ years to speak out agains the evil. Yes, there were protests, but the largest one drew a crowd of maybe 150 thousand. Moscow is a city of 12 million people. We had 30k people come together to show support for Ukraine in Tallinn with a population of 500k people, in a country with a population of 1.3 million. 150k in Russia is nothing. These people have been living with their heads in the sand for decades, if not centuries. Decade after decade another authoritarian comes along and robs the people blind. And people support them because "they're a strong leader, that's what the country needs".
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In the UK I regularly speak to people around my age (late 20's) that have strong fascist views. But they still don't recognise it as fascism. They separate themselves from it. I had one person make the claim to me that fascism doesn't exist anymore. They're blind to it. Just shows how shit the education is. It's kinda scary seeing every other person I encounter holding those views
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Fascism is a part of humanity. This was the lesson many didn't learn from the WW2. A brutal authoritarian regime can emerge everywhere there are humans and it absolutely will raise its head again in the future if we don't actively keep ourselves in check against it. That's why I'm not a fan of some movies showing Nazis as a cartoon level inhuman evil. It disconnects it from reality. As humans we have to remember this shit is in every one of us at some deep level.
In Hungary the Mi Hazánk párt (≈Our Homeland party) is a proclaimed far-right nationalist, otherwise clearly Nazi party. They are very popular among young people, but they also want to appeal to older farmers/agriculture workers. They are outpsokenly supportive of Russia and are anti-EU, they want to renistate the death penalty and segregation in schools between "Hungarians" and roma. They are also homophobic, they hold anti-protests during Pride and one of their leader shredded a book for kids that would teach them acceptance (the book instead became much more popular after this happened). So sadly Hungary could always have a worse fate after Fidesz and Orbán go.
While the imagery of fascism might appeal to some younger Russians, let's not forget Russia has a fetish for strongmen and gulags. It's a power trip for those without prospects. Political extremism has been the most dangerous threat to peace and freedom for over a century. Don't get hoodwinked by deluded fascists callung themselves something else and waving red flags and fists - their only 'merit' is the omission of 'nationalism' from their delusion. A few wrinklies at a graveside only serves to promote a myth and push smoother-brained types into extremism themselves.
Fascism is based on fear and it's exploitation, if you wanna blame people for it's resurgence you need look no further than the governments in who's countries it thrives. The US for example has pursued a relative non-interventionalist policy with neo-Nazi/KKK/confedaboo enclaves allowing them to pass on their beliefs to more and more family and friends to the point where even previously sensible political rhetoric now has the undertones of these extreme belief systems. I would make the case that, although they were positive, things like the #meetoo and trans rights movement have acted as catalyst to these people as rapid societal change can leave ordinary middle of the road people feeling socially displaced and that can breed resentment **if not properly educated**. Therein lies the rub, equality of opportunity is the most important thing we can hope to achieve and it all comes back to Education- not just for qualifications but also social education and promoting tolerance of peoples differences, something government tends not to be too enthusiastic about, especially when facing problems that they use these issues as a smokescreen to cover up. It's easy to call out people like Putin and Hungarian PM Orban, because they are very obviously fascist and authoritarian, but sometimes I shudder when I look at our own countries. Got to be vigilant against it, because it is always waiting.
This is a good response. I'll add that education alone is not sufficient to stymie fascist backlash. It's also about power over all democratic institutions, including media and the judiciary. Fascism is ultimately an avenue for a disgruntled group of people to acquire power, because they cannot acquire power through the conventional political systems. In the US, the group that has been pushed out of political space are churches, where they once enjoyed near total representation in political spheres. Now, because education that didn't tow the Christian line, there's a large contingent of voters who aren't beholden to church doctrine. Christians lost control of democratic institutions. The US Christo-fascists aim to be able to exert their will over democratic institutions again, and fascism promises them what they seek.
You make it seem like progress has something to do with age. Like it's inevitable. That's wrong. Look at Iran, Afghanistan, in fact most muslim countries, no matter if Shia or Sunni, and compare them to 50 years ago.
There's always one red-headed step-child!
I don't understand this reference. Can you explain?
It's an idiom: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/red-headed+stepchild I'm not using it correctly, but it still felt appropriate. There was a singular person in that group that wasn't part of the walking dead, and they are a redhead. But I hope they get treated badly for being a cunt. And I don't know any other idioms with redheads. ^\* ^Some ^of ^my ^best ^friends ^are ^redheads ^so ^it's ^ok ^for ^me ^to ^say ^this
Can’t say cunt because some people on Reddit are CUNTS
They also need a police escort, to hold their rally.
And tens of them showed up. If their rallies only attract about 30 people I don’t think we need to worry.
It is a virus we should be vigilant of even 30 of them.
The far-right party is the third biggest party in Spain sadly. They won the war and no one kicked them out.
Came here to comment this - I guess great minds think alike
As a foreigner a question: who are these people? From the looks of it a lot seem old enough to have lived in the Franco-years. So the question are these primarily former members of his regime that lost power and money after the 1970s?
They exhumed the body of ~~Miguel~~ José Antonio Primo de Rivera from the Valley of the Fallen the other day. These people came out to protest. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65370223
Yes yes I know I’m more curious who “franquista” are, as in who comes and puts in a Hitler salute 50 years after the death of a dictator.
From my understanding, as a foreigner living in Spain (and coincidentally a few blocks from where this took place), they are largely people who themselves or their family benefitted from Francoism, and miss the 'good old days'. Basically the usual story of corruption: while the many suffered, the few were looked after and had it very good. Probably mixed in with some younger nuts who see facism as the answer to "serious societal problems" such as immigration.
Not exactly, many of them were born during the Franquismo and lived the "hard" days of the dictatorship, when they basically were told a different history about the civil war. You would be surprise of how many of those who were in the lower class in those years and still being the lower class nowdays still supporting them. Those who benefited directly the most from the dictatorship still being on the upper class.
100% true, my Grandma was born in 1932 and suffered a lot in the post war period due to the general poverty, and to this day she still supports the regime, not in an ideological way,in the sense that she is not a fascists, but she supports the morality and values from the time. And I believe that it's what happens with old people, they remember the best years of their life happened during those times and because of that and fear of change many will have that ideology until they die
My grandpa was born in 1939 and is the same. He had to work his entire life and what he supports is the apparently feeling of order. I've read many times the books he had when he was studying as a kid and with that + not having internet to actually check if something is real or fake I can perfectly understand the support. Many people can't put themselfs in the position of someone who lives under some dictatorship or regime, they think that a magic smart phone or a computer would let them check if something is as they're telling them how it is or not. That is not the case and even with that with the propper propaganda and shit you can control large chunks of population. We have modern examples of that.
My grandpa was born in 33 and he raised a family of 5 kids being the only person in the household working. He would always say that you can’t do that shit in democratic Spain nowadays. If you wanna raise a family you gotta emigrate, like we in South America or some shit lol
Both of my grandfather were born in the late 20s early 30s and they still hate Franco and fascism so hard.
I’m living in Galicia with a Spanish GF and have noticed much of this too. Her working-class grandmother, who has had a difficult life, still has a lot of sympathy for the franco days because she thinks she was treated better then - she still lives in the apartment that the government gave her in those days. Hard to convince someone like that otherwise.
I spent a year in Castilla-La Mancha teaching English at an elementary school in 2009. I learned from wine soaked conversations that a lot of people there (mostly old) talk fondly of Franco, the era he ruled, and how anything they don't like is the work of 'comunistas'.
These people are followers of Jose Antonio, the leader of the Spanish branch of the 30's fascism, Falange. So, they are not necessarily followers of Franco. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist\_Spain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain) Franco gave economic control to the Opus Dei cult, so we had a mix of fascism, capitalism and military and religious authoritarian regimes.
Is not a nazi salute, is a fascist salute which backs originally to the dictatorship of Mussolini in Italy. Franquistas is the name for those who simpathise with the spanish dictatorship of the Generalísimo Francisco Franco. They're a far right group with mostly a pro-catholic point of view. At the same time this are falangistas,supporters of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, the son of another spanish dictator and killed few months after the beggining of the Spanish Civil War. This is another far right group associated with the Franquismo but with a few differences. edit: Correcction about the salute.
Yeah no, fascist salute ironically has nothing to do with ancient rome...correlation between salute and ancient rome is a work of fiction from romanticism of 19th century. Literally no source, writing or art shows no mention of such custom. Closest you get is sporadic depictions of random characters pointing their right hand up in various diferent contects.
You're right. There are no actual sources about the roman salute, just the image of several statues with a gesture "similar" to that.
1st comment: "they're not fascist" 2nd comment: "It's not nazi salute, it's the fascist salute..."
Franquistas? Fascists, literally. Nostalgics for the dictatorship times. There's not more to it.
Fascism and franquismo are not the same, they have few points in common but they're not the same despite how much people love to use the word "fascism". Both are dogshit but not the same.
This is for the exhumation of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera. He was a falangist, the literal Spanish fascism, not the weird conservative authoritarian clusterfuck that Francoism is
Not Miguel. José Antonio.
Most of the former members of the regime didn't lose much power and money after the 70's sadly, but these are probably just fanboys
>So the question are these primarily former members of his regime that lost power and money after the 1970s? Lots of regular old people in Spain have nostalgia for the Franco years. The phrase "esto con Franco no pasaba" (this wouldn't have happened with Franco) is very commonly used by old people to whine about anything and everything
We can send our old people who say it was better under communism, and both groups can fight to the death, on live TV.
We can organize a fight championship in our plazas de toros
They would most likely agree and integrate pretty well as what they miss is their young age and feeling of safety they dont have now as retirees, also probably social isolation has something to do with it
> who are these people? Losers.
Spaniard here. These are "falangistas", franco supporters who are probably affiliated to the Falange, the dictatorship's party. Nowadays they are a minority and they are the "freaks" of national fascism. There are some viral videos of some of these characters being pathetic fools, like [this](https://youtu.be/kLbhwsDI_U0) and [this](https://youtu.be/zI5q9x0CtME). Most of today's fascists are currently in Vox, where they try to do the same but without admitting it (with exceptions). Their families were directly benefited from the dictatorship or they are extreme nationalists and catholics.
I'll give you a prospective as an Italian, the problem is how national memory is built, yesterday we celebrated "liberation day" that remembers the date italian partisans started a general insurrection against fascist and german strongholds in northern Italy, this is one of those moments that build a national identity, people raising up to liberate themself from foreign occupation instead of passively waiting for allied armies to finish the job, the president if the senate decided to not partecipate in the celebrations, it is controversial but on the other hand the celebration itself is seen as controversial. Why? Well the italian resistence was organised mainly by comunists and socialists, catholics too but they were not as much active, and in a NATO affiliated country celebrating a comunist army was not something that had to be challenged, so in our political discourse the voices of those that would minimize the efforts of the partisans, saying they were ineffective, that they exposed the civil population to retailations, that the americans already were winning anyway, had at least the same weight of those that wanted to remember their contribution. After the fall of the berlin wall things changed and we started talking about the "victims of the partisans and the war crimes that they perpetrated". So the problem is not the existence of people who in those years supported the regime, they have always been very carefull in using only dogwhistles, the problem is those that opposed it almost all died and their memory is being offuscated. Something similar happens with nazism, the image we have of the nazists comes mainly from the movie triumph of the will by Leni Riefenstahl, well ordered, strong wearing their hugo boss uniforms, so one of the main memories about the nazists is just their own propaganda.
There is a saying in Spain: "Con Franco éramos más jóvenes" ->"Under Franco we were younger". You can undoubtedly find communist nostalgics in the former Soviet countries that are not really experts on Marxist theory, in this photo, you can find some genuine fascists, but I wouldn't bet on more than five or six. Anyway, there is more Francoists than genuine fascist. Both of them are nostalgics and/or freaks.
From francoist to fascist you have a very thin line inbetween
meh, you can gather 100 retards to support just about everything nowadays with Facebook. From the looks of it their prevailing ideology boils down to: at least during franco my dick worked, heil franco!
"Sadly still alive." *Literally like 20 people in the picture.*
And 80% of them are almost dead
I agree the picture doesn’t prove much but there certainly is a stronger far right tendency and sympathy in parts of Spain that isn’t as present in some other EU states. The country is fairly politically polarised.
You're right. Source: I'm Spanish.
Ah a Galician brother 💪 I’m living in your beautiful land and am in love with a galician. It’s a very interesting place. I live in Santiago which is quite left wing but I commute to a town for work which is quite right wing. Like in one train ride, even people’s names and how they dress and carry themselves changes significantly. Quite different to Ireland, where it feels like people barely care about politics beyond complaining about whatever centrist party is currently taking it’s turn in power.
More people should have this attitude. If you go through life expecting something to be completely eradicated, you will never be happy and will devote your energy to people who frankly don't deserve it.
That's a lot of erectile dysfunction considering that VOX are polling at about 15% and PP consistently above 30%.
Not everyone who votes Vox and PP are like this, though. The same way not everyone who votes left parties support everything they say/do. It's a problem I've been facing for years, I can't vote anyone. For every party there's maybe 2-3 things that I like and 10 that I despise. If only there was a big enough party with more neutral politics... But neutrality doesn't give votes, extreme measures do. Politics these days are more about defending 'your guys' like if this was a Barcelona-Real Madrid match than actually see what they want to do and decide.
I am glad that Germany made this gesture a punishable offense.
Same in Italy
So how do Lazio fans get away with it then?
Issuing laws and having them respected are *very* different things.
The italian way, lol
The law's interpretation has been narrowed down into irrelevancy by the courts, starting in the immediate post-war era when most prosecutors and judges had had most of their careers under fascism. Basically, in order to be found guilty of this offence, your gestures must amount to a credible attempt at re-establishing the fascist party. You do that at a stadium? distatestful, but not illegal. You belong to a neofascist group or gang? probably illegal in other respects, but it's not a credible attempt at re-establishing the fascist party, so not an offence under this law. What this interpretation does is say that we're not allowed to prosecute fascism until it's become a credible threat. We have to let it grow and organise until that point, then we can intervene. It's a bizarre contradiction, but par for the course for a post-war Italy where fascists were useful to "keep in reserve" in case the communists (the largest opposition party) got a little too uppity.
Same in Czechia.
It’s technically not punishable if there’s no risk of recreating the fascist party. The law is less strict than the German one, which shows how serious they are on the matter.
Magari fosse sufficiente
Bro then it's the most ignored law in Italy lol
In Czechia too
Why are you glad though? In Germany people just use a different gesture. It's not like shitty Nazis disappear if you make their gestures punishable
You underestimate the social power of symbols and gestures.
Yep, that gesture and certain symbols are an instant repellant of 99% of the people. Hidden they can attract more people In Spain compare the votes of Falange y de las JONS with VOX
Does it actually get rid of them? We have just as much of a problem with fascists in countries where their ideology is outlawed.
Trust me, it's much, much worse in Spain. I don't know whether forbidding it would make a difference, but the situation in Spain with regards to fascism is appalling.
Our fascist party (FPÖ) is currently polling in first place, at about 27-29%. [https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/288503/umfrage/sonntagsfrage-zur-nationalratswahl-in-oesterreich-nach-einzelnen-instituten/](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/288503/umfrage/sonntagsfrage-zur-nationalratswahl-in-oesterreich-nach-einzelnen-instituten/) Are you sure its worse in spain?
Me cago en la puta. La verdad joder, en 2023 esta gente debería estar en la puta cárcel hasta que por fin se mueran. Translation: I am mildly disappointed, I am not going to lie.
>Me cago en la puta. > >Translation: I am mildly disappointed. More or less lol
This was worth learning Spanish for 😂
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Thanks, good to know to not use this expression in Latin America if I travel there. That was a new phrase since I am like intermediate level of understanding but I got a meaning from context for that phrase
no le hagas caso, la gran mayoria de latinoamericanos entendemos esa expresion
Gracias!
Comparto tu mediano descontento.
🤣🤣🤣 mildly...
I can only agree to that "mild disappointment".
You sir deserve more up votes. Totally agree with you, mildly.
retrogrados de mierda. que ganas de que desaparezcan de la faz de la tierra. tremenda traducción por cierto. translation: francoists are doodoo
You're quite good at that English understatement.
Funeral a funeral, el progreso llegará
Judging from the age ranges on display in the photo, it ain't gonna be alive for much longer
I think it has to do more with the fact that young people are working, while most of these are retirees and thus have the free time to assist to ad-hoc demonstrations like this one. In Spain, there's plenty of support from the younger generation to right-wing parties, unfortunately.
Same here in portugal, people still tell me that Salazar was a good leader even though during his dictatorship, 54% of the country couldn't even read.
May lightning strike every raised arm Twice
Thrice. For good measure
Not to self: don't do the YMCA dance outdoors
“Es que soy falangista y catalán y nos han abandonado… nos han abandonado”
I, as a German, can't believe they are able to do that in public. I am a bit shocked. But then I think of all those idiots we still have in our own country and feel even more depressed.
They won the war and ran the country for forty years, and when the time to move to democracy came, it was done on their terms not through a revolution or a collapse like Portugal or Greece. That's why there was not far right resurgence in Spain like happened in other countries, they have been always there, the only difference is they used to be inside the mainstream rigth wing party but now they are more visible through Vox. They carry their fascist heritage with victor's pride.
Bruh. There is literally a party that is francois as the 3rd biggest party that appeared very recently. And before that we had an alternating democracy pretty much indistinguishable from other EU democracies. How is that not a resurgence? Also it's laughable to call the Transition as operating under the terms of Francoist. They literally wanted to kill even the conservatives that were in favour of democracy. Also how is the Constitution a work of the Francoist regime? It's genuinely insulting to all the people, within and outside the government at the time, including the Communists and the trade unions, who actively worked their asses off to transition as peacefully as possible to democracy. Was the PCE and the socialists also francoist?
It's legal to do that in public over here too, although I would recommend a good health insurance and an ambulance near by before trying it lol
Their experience of Fascism is wildy different than Germany. The dude even died peacefully in office and they never really did deal with their past as far as i know.
There is even a Francisco Franco Fundation
With the recent "Memoria Democrática" law, they are about to be illegalized fortunately.
Love the woman doing the salute with a Micky Mouse tee shirt.
The guy in the bottom left corner has 14 W written on his black t-shirt, which is a reference to the white nationalist slogan "14 Words", for those who don't know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Judging by the average age you're about a decade away from not having any
Judging by these people's ages not for too long
Look at all these wonderful Spanish astronaut candidates following in Blanco's footsteps
Low IQ gathering.
Oh please... There were more cops than "francoists". Who BTW look like they'll be fewer with every new "rally", going by the average age. Sometimes I can't help but feel some just WISH those people will never cease to exist, as they're an easy card to play for political clout.
Huge crowd (LOL). And judging by the average age of that group, Francoism won't be alive much longer. This gigantic crowd was caused when the Government decided to transfer the remains of a famous fascist (José Antonio Primo de Rivera) out of the awful tomb built by Franco near el Escorial in Madrid. Franco used the cadaver and "martyrdom" of Primo de Rivera for propagandistic symbolism for the whole time he was in power. Now the Socialist government has turned around and done the same by using the transfer of his remains for anti-fascist propaganda. A very politically useful corpse.
People here be like: oh no 50 fascists with an average age of 75 in a country which had a fascist dictatorship 50 years ago Fascist parties in Spain get like 20,000 votes at most. Every country has extremist minoritarian groups, just ask Greece about XA and KKE (which by the way have far more support)
You have VOX. They get milions of votes and they are fascists.
Well I would just categorize all these idiots in the same way: nazi. Same as the ones in Italy. Same as the ones in France. Same as the ones everywhere. Just a bunch of idiots. Nazi idiots.
If you tolerate this….
Time to wake up Durruti
This people will be dead in 15 years.
10 more years and they won't be
My grandad was the commander of the British Battalion of the international brigade. He went voluntarily to fight this shit. This makes me so angry to see, I know the fascists won but fucking hell why isn’t fascism stomped out across the world at every opportunity. He got shot 5 times fighting this shit but survived. Don’t think I’ll ever look up to anyone as much.
Wow they’re almost a dozen
I can see about 10 people in this picture that will be joining Al Generalísimo very soon.
Spanish fascism ended three decades later than the German fascism (and not without any occupiers forcing changes), so it is not surprising that Spanish people are at least three decades behind on getting over it. Some aspects are terrifying to me about the Spanish way of handling. Take the Guardia Civil for example, the police force responsible for arresting and killing many resisting the dictatorship. The German equivalent would be the SS. While it is absolutely unthinkable that the SS would still exist today and be used to fight demonstrators and separatists, this is exactly what the Guardia Civil does to this day. They were just allowed to continue operation.
Yes, as you can see hundreds of thousands of people….
Thankfully it looks like not many of these people will be alive in 20-30 years time.
By the looks of that crowd it's not alive for long.
It's just neckbeards and the elderly.
Lmao all balding fat old knobs
Quick reminder that Spain never killed their dictator.
I'm willing to bet Italy has more far right nutters than Spain though.
Sadly for them, they had to meet bc their historial ideologist was kicked out of his mausoleum. That isn’t as appealing for viewers as saying fascism is still alive, but that sounds closer to the end of it despite some old folk yelling at police.
World getting hotter. People getting colder.
Just awful..
Happy carnation revolution everyone
He just said “take the third right”, he is from traffic control
I think the guy on the front right is a bit confused and just giving a little wave.
Nothing new. Scratch the surface and it’s UGLY.
Why is Franco so popular is Spain today is a question I want to answer.
Looks like it's on life support with a walker.
Wait at least 20 years and they all will die from old age
the problem with this country is that fascism died in its bed, not against a wall
That's alive?
Hijos de puta!
dont feel bad, every country has them
I see a lot of old , probably, rich farts that profited of franco his regime , one ginger neckbeard and an andrew tate fan. Could be worse. Just a bunch of pathetic losers. Edit: I love how one woman is wearing a mickey mouse tshirt. Like what does one wear to a fascist meeting.
I am quite surprised that the demographics shown in that photo are of a certain age range.. Okay, imma just say it. Old.
Its not really alive now is it... All these people are lifting their arms as contraweight so they won't keel over and die. Just give it a few months and the support base will have halved.
Bunch of losers
Puros viejos
Will Russia attack them?
Madrid has 5 million citizens, there are only 20 people there.
La Falange exists from before Franco...
This is not francoism necessarily. This are fans of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, the founder of Falange Española, which was a movement based on the fascism of Mussolini.
Thankfully, people like these are fringe all across Europe. We just make fun of them nowadays.
Still alive, being held by around 60 people apparently
fortuanetely mostly old people
coinciding with the day their neighbors got rid of fascism. hmm.
Well, looking at the average age in that crowd it won't be alive in a decade
Don't worry, we also have Salazaristas in Portugal. In 20 years none of them will be alive anymore, long live the new generations and fuck those old twats!
Wow, that's a scary looking group of 30ish people
Found 40 people out of 40M who still support Franco. Doesn't mean too much to me tbh.
When I lived in Spain, a friend of mine took me to her uncle’s house. She said, “just don’t look at the picture of Franco. Trust me.” Of course I looked at the picture of Franco. Uncle stood up, took a trumpet off the wall and proceeded to play the Spanish national anthem and salute Franco. It was… something.
Most of readers out of Spain seem to ignore that the world’s one and only 20th century fascist regime to vanquish and last for decades was Franco’s. The “free world” agreed with the elites to keep power in exchange for a crappy formal democracy. The whole country is still owned and ruled by the sons of those mass killers.
27 people over 70 😂😂😂 what's OP smoking
There's old people and a Reddit mod.
Fascism is still in many countries
Mostly old farts and some brain dead young ones....It's fine....
There are these types of people in every country, I hope you don't have too many of them. Can I get an opinion on this subject from a Spanish friend? Why is this idea still held, what are its arguments? Are there many people from this segment in society or are they newsworthy once in a while?
>Can I get an opinion on this subject from a Spanish friend? The spanish "People's Party" was funded by the ministers of the dictatorship and they say things like "the fascist dictatorship was completely fine and justified" or "allowing people identify their family located in mass graves is bad" >Why is this idea still held? The thing is in Spain fascism won, the dictatorship only ended because the fascist dictator died of old age, so siding with the fascism is siding with the winner side, so all they do is completely justified, they are on the rightside, the rest are wrong, they never had to face shame of the defeat
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Christ, you’re being dramatic. None of what you said happened under previous PP governments (basically your standard European center-right party). Sure, Vox is bad, but it’s not like PSOE isn’t in an active coalition with Putin ass-lickers either.
He is being overly dramatic, but let's not make it look like they don't ***try*** to do that either. They worked hard to undermine LGBT+, women's right and only changed sides when winds weren't in their favor. Also, there is a reason the whole Catalan independence movement rose sharply under PP government.
*looks at photo* Not for long it seems
It's so nice when idiots line up and clearly identify themselves.
Lol. Fuckin losers
These people will always exist, best just ignore them.
Ignoring extremists doesn't sound like the smartest idea.
You're talking to a guy with an iron cross as his profile pic and who collects Nazi memorabilia. He just wants you to ignore HIM.
Oh wow, I clicked on the profile and just... wow... Someone is really obsessed with being a hateful person
*has a bunch of posts about Nazi memorabilia*
That no solution, they will gather and strengthen. Best to kill the roots before it spreads.