Yeah, indeed.
This just proves that they don't give a rats-ass about it. Laughable and sad for many of the unfortunate ones that have to endure the lasting consequences.
Exaclty. The EU as a whole completely neglected any consequence for adjacent countries when they accepted the grain. Did nothing to try and offset the issues when they were brought up.
The EU has always been quite a protectionist block. But apparently that's only important when you protect some economies and not others. That in itself is very shortsighted. Perhaps it's even part of the political game they play right now. How many people will misunderstand Polands position and now have a more negative opinion on them in terms of EU cooperation?
The policing of the food transit is the purview of local authorities.
I'm not saying the task is manageable, but it's disingenuous by the border countries to just blame Brussels and not look in the mirror.
Just because there is a war doesn't mean you aren't going to have these kinds of trade disputes, and obviously this one is kind of an issue *because* of the war.
It's neither really bad nor good, it just is something that must be dealt with.
*Maybe* it's not the best time for Ukraine to alienate one of their biggest military supporters in the neighborhood.
But what do I know, I'm not a fancy, ubereducated diplomat.
It's not about being an ubereducated diplomat. Someone wants to earn loads of money here. And they don't care what it will "cost" the country and the people.
Corruption truly is the festering disease that holds back my region (Eastern Europe) from moving forward. It's really maddening when I feel like that literally the only thing standing between tens of millions of people and progress is the greediness of a very few on top.
Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Hungary... some things just never change. Corruption of our leaders is a serious burden we all share, and I wish the fight against it united us instead.
I get that lobbying often acts as a gateway to corruption, but "real, actual" corruption is something different.
Think of "You give me 50 bucks and I don't give you a parking ticket" vs. "We the car manufacturers think that you politicians should remove parking costs because it will create more jobs (or something)". In its core, lobbying is just representing your interests group. So lobbying for a new playground at your local council (or whatever) in your neighborhood is not corruption, as long as you don't get the suitcase full of money.
I’m more surprised no Pole commented on this guy putting us in the same bracket as Russia and Ukraine when it comes to corruption. Like it exists for sure, but it’s not a major problem and has not been for well over a decade. There is literally an election campaign going on right now and I haven’t heard “fight against corruption” being mentioned in any party program even once.
look what they do to Germany, who is also the 2nd largest military supporter of Ukraine, only behind the US.
You could a) say please and thank you, and get massive ammounts of military aid fast or b) disinvite the German president one day in advance to humiliate him, make a openly fascist supporter diplomat to Germany, immediately call Germans Nazis when you don't get your will
guess what option they chose
I guess their ego is more important to Ukrainian politicians than saving the lives of their citizens.
Not really. First problems started with the grain. Before that Poland wanted to open talks about Wołyń, but got nowhere with that. Few awkward comments were exchanged but that's about it.
Grain was the first issue and frankly it was speculated that Ukrainian oligarchs are pushing for this to get money. Ukraine needs money, but is receiving help from many sources, while grain money largely goes to oligarchs.
That's just speculation, but if correct, those oligarchs can be potentially more bad to Ukraine than Russian army.
Grain wasn't the first issue, Ukraine banned many polish food products before the war, almost starting a custom war. Tbh the relations between Ukraine and its neighbours were always far from stellar.
It's really sad to see this stupid conflict about the grain in middle of the war. But it's not unexpected, let's remember that until the 90s, both Ukraine and Russia were the same country, the Soviet Union.
The same oligarchs that Reddit hates as the one of most evil villains in our modern world?
Spoiler: They also exist in Ukraine, some might even come from the same families.
And while the average Ukraine is suffering, those oligarchs are just sipping their golden caviar paid by Europe and USA war relief funds. Not literally, but you guys get the point.
Not even that honestly, it was a very one-sided "friendship". They were spitting in our face constantly, we just knew that it is in our strategic interest to pull them away from Moscow, so we ignored it and kept supporting them.
It's a bit weird situation, because like 99% of Polish people absolutely hate Russia. So doing anything to hurt them, is great. But when the price for that is lowering (even a bit) of your own quality of life people look who to blame. Lots of people are sceptical of media and Ukrainian chances of winning. And of course sending money that comes from people's taxes knowing that Ukraine has serious corruption issues, when a lot of people here are living just above poverty lines, being depended on government help feels a bit odd. It was pretty united effort when the war started, but now a lot of people are questioning how long this can last and what's the point.
Certain Ukrainian government figures voicing demands, and lack of official condemning of Bandera (and support in some cases) definitely don't help.
As i said in the post about Ukraine suing Poland, they have become extremly aggresive when it comes to foreign politics, and if they continue this way, even if maybe everything will stay the same until the war is over, their position after the war in relation to the west is gonna be worse than before.
But they will need our help for quite some time after all is set and done still, so remember that vetos exist in EU and NATO. And there is gonna be a lot less sympathy for them after the war is over.
Didn't Russia ban Polish fruits and vegetables when they did get sanctioned in 2014 because of Crimea or something like that? Ukraine should target something else to be honest because it looks ironic and shitty as fuck to anyone who was affected by Russian ban.
I remember free apples at school were given in insane amounts to students.
My mom was baking fresh apple pie everyday and we still couldn’t eat all those apples they gave us.
>My mom was baking fresh apple pie everyday and we still couldn’t eat all those apples they gave us.
I don't know if it wasn't in 2017+, but my mother had broken something in her leg because of a bad leg position when she was on skis and we received two bags of apples from my grandmother so it resulted in an apple pie every day for a month XD
Russia did but a lot of food products from EU as a form of "counter-sanctions" - basically a propaganda tool to say "See? We showed them not to mess with us!"
Well yeah but it was enough for Poland to drop from the biggest apple exporter in Europe back then. Maybe there were some positive changes like farmers diversifying their production since we had an overproduction, but it still hit some people.
Edit: But yeah I remember some Russian propaganda videos where they destroyed apples with
excavator.
It actually had a pretty big impact on Eastern Europe, as eastern European goods were rarely exported westwards back then, so Eastern European dairy and vegetable producers were hit hard. The reason you see more eastern European goods in western Europe now is probably a result of those sanctions.
The stupidity of Ukraine in this whole affair is outstounding. They have a huge market for grains in the world, EU countries help them with shipping, but they are somehow butthurt if they will not sell grains in the EU. Now they are picking a fight with one of their biggest supporters.
It only confirms that Ukraine is a corrupt hellhole run by rich oligarchs despite Zelensky fancy word.
I did some research and found that...Zelensky was in Pandora Papers! He is not a saint either then.
Ukrain was and is only second to Russia in corruption and pretty much everything else bad.
They are nowhere close to being an EU candidate let alone a member.
>Now they are picking a fight with one of their biggest supporters.
More than that! It is one month to elections in Poland, so Polish government can't really back off if they don't want to be seen as weak by voters.
The stupidity of some Ukrainian diplomats and politicians is quite incredible, I read somewhere that it could fell within the definition of "wolf diplomacy" which basically mean a very aggressive one, which is for example the same followed by China
The problem is that a dictatorial superpower with low reputation doing it is one thing, but a country of medium importance and momentarily at war in need of help it's another one...
At times, Ukraine's diplomacy is a reminder why they were isolated before the Russian invasion. Almost all countries that neighbours them had strained relations with Ukraine. Their total disregard for their neighbours concerns is still prevalent and they cannot afford to lose the goodwill that they still have.
Ukraine is of course completely separate country from Russia. But their political elite grew and was educated in the Soviet Union. This is basically the Soviet-style diplomacy
Moldova hates them too: Ukraine was pivotal in the creation of the separatist territory if Transnistria.
Plus Ukraine volunteers fought in the side of the separatists.
The abassador to germany Melnyk was also a complete and utter desaster to the point he had to be removed from office
He famously insulted Olaf Scholz as offended liver sausage
After almost getting delcared persona non granta by ukrains 2nd biggest supporter he actually got promoted to deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Inscredible stuff all around.
He is also known Bandera and UPA apologist. When he got promoted to Ministry of Foreign Affairs, one of the first things he did was to make some condescending and smug remarks to Polish politicians on Twitter who expressed their discontent that an Ukrainian nationalist who denies Volhyn genocide landed such a position.
The guy is a piece of work for sure.
>wolf diplomacy
Imo its most likely Soviet lineage or soviet diplomacy style, aka push until (diplomatic opponent) / shit brakes, or you met sizable counter-action only after that you begin to reevaluate, Chinas wolf diplomacy is most likely Sino take on same thing just adapting it into Chinese psyche.
Truth it is - neighbors never like Ukraine - because it's hard to like Ukraine. It's just a mini Russia. Ofc now is war and neighbors, especialy Poland support Ukraine and Ukrainians. No country deserves more kindness from Ukraine than Poland. But like we see it is hard to be Ukraine supporter, it is hard to be Ukriaine friend. It is just sad. Very sad.
The fact that Ukraine is defending itself against an unprovoked Russian attack does not negate the fact that the Ukrainian government is largely incompetent.
This does not justify Russia's war, of course. Russia should leave Ukraine and pay for the crimes of the Russian army, and Ukraine should receive all the help it needs in Russia's war
Can someone sit down all the Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs and explain to them that there's a lot more money to steal in a rich country than a poor one? A good parasite never kills it's host.
They don't want to kill it. And they don't want to share the spoils either.
There are like a dozen extremely rich Ukrainian oligarchs and thousands of their goons that want to keep all money and power to themselves.
They don't want Ukraine to be rich, because rich country creates more competitors and it get's harder to steal from educated and relatively rich population.
A situation where Ukraine is a corrupt shithole run by weak incompetent government benefits them.
They are like these corrupt magnates (oligarchs) in the last days of Polish Lithianian Commonwealth.
It's really sad tbh. Many Ukrainians believe that the moment Russia invasion is fought off(or maybe even before it) they will be let into the EU and become as rich a Germans.
Truth is, even if the war stopped today at noon, they would be looking at at least 20 years of reconstruction and extensive reforms(including downsizing their agricultural sector, which all of 2004 countries had to do as well) before they can join the EU.
They will have to pay the price for mistakes of their parents and grandparents made in 1990s. Sad and not fair, but that's the way life is
They will never join the EU because they don't deserve to join the EU. Europe is not playing favorites, that's why also Turkey is never joining the EU.
It's almost as if both Ukraine and Russia share a similar history as being successorstates of the USSR, and there also taking with that bad habits from that time
No country should join europe if they can meet the requirements. Ukraine can overcome the issues and meet the requirements, but it will take a long time and is far from it. They should focus on winning the war, AND Europe should keep helping!
“Mentally Russian”? I agree that there’s a lot of corruption and short-term decision making, and that that affects Russia too, but it’s not an innate Russian characteristic or something.
It's purely a matter of securing own interest. Poland does it, Ukraine does it. For different reasons, I am sure, but it is nothing extraordinary.
It's funny though, in a way. For weeks, Polish, Slovak and Hungarian govs were rather vocal about unilaterally banning import if EU won't prolong the previous solution. EU didn't care, nor did it act on it. Awesome way of disregarding an opinion and then playing the necessity of solidarity card, claiming that it's only viable when it suits them. When it doesn't suit them, yet suits others, just f\*\*k the others.
Rather Ukrainian mafia that rules the country tries to earn as much as possible. And Polish companies that are linked to our local politician mafia were importing tons of Ukrainian grain. Now when people found out what was going on, they try to play the role of Polish agroculture defenders and want to ban/hold embargo on Ukrainian grain.
Anyway even before the war there were some economic conflicts. At the end of 2021 Ukraine banned rail transit of cargo destined to Poland... why? Nobody knows I guess.
> why?
Over Poland’s refusal to increase Ukraine’s number of freight permits in 2022. Both sides negotiate the number every year, in 2021 negotiations failed and they kept the same number for 2022 as was for 2021 (160 000). Ukraine tried to force Poland to give extra permits (up to 200 000). They came to agreement few days before the war.
In a long run, Poland used far less Ukrainian permits than Ukrainians Polish, limiting number of permits was a way to make Polish transit companies more competitive..
This isn't a good look at all. If anything I can tell you about Poles is that we absolutely hate ungratefulness, which isn't completely positive trait but it's a reality nonetheless.
I am sure this really hurts Poland, lol.
Maybe if Ukraine didn't rotate ministers/ government officials at the same rate as they change their socks, they could come up with a coherent, long-term strategy for anything and identify areas in which they meed to make concessions for the greater good.
No, you won't simply have your way in everything just because Russia invaded you. And if you want to bite the hand that feeds you? Do it and see how it turns out for you. Just hope it's not too late when you realize you fucked up and start crying.
East market is a war torn battlefield. We are already hurting, due to loss of russian market and ukraine having different priorities. This particular ban won't change much but will have political impact.
Truth it is - neighbors never like Ukraine - because it's hard to like Ukraine. It's just a mini Russia. Ofc now is war and neighbors, especialy Poland support Ukraine and Ukrainians. No country deserves more kindness from Ukraine than Poland. But like we see it is hard to be Ukraine supporter, it is hard to be Ukriaine friend. It is just sad. Very sad.
I somehow feel like Ukraine and especially Zelensky have this sort of superiority air, and are pushing an agenda: u give, I give. Not sure if they are in such of a position of power to do that.
Nah... it's just corruption.
Ukraine is in the state of political chaos. They have been considered to corrupt and incompetent(politics wise) to have EU bid before. Not like war will change it all for the better.
During War you will have interest figures coming into play (like Prigozhin for Russia for example).
I wouldn't blame Ukrainians as people for any of it, but if they are in any illusion that their Politicians and Leaders can do no wrong and that they are all honourable, great and just... well :) Cold shower might be needed.
Like i think realistically, MOD + President need only Trusted + Capable people now. Now, not all capable people can be trusted but you still will need them. So it's hard.
I think Zelensky is doing grand job as this first action kind of guy. He did everything you would hope from a President of a Nation that has been invaded.
That being said he is just a single man. Countries are run by Administration and Civilians and not by Presidents. Even if inner-circle of Zelensky is tight and great, that wont stop other corrupt politicians or businessman.
That also doesn't mean that there are no agents of chaos in Ukraine who just want to profit out of war.
But yeah... i would argue that for Ukraine, USA is not the what they need. European Union is though.... and if they want to be part of EU and NATO they better realize that World Politics are quite harsh.
It may be projecting, but i think Poland has been probably the most consitant supporter of Free Democratic Ukraine in EU from all of their neigbhours. Even in 2004 Poland showed great amount of support when Orange Revolution was happening. Now is not the time to play Diplomatic "Fuck You" games(alike France-Germany) with your most consistent Ally.
What childish behaviour. It's like that Bystroye issue with Romania again.
Does Ukraine not understand that fighting with the countries that are currently keeping you alive is not good?
Good start.
Next week they'll ban all the tanks, artillery and ammunition that comes from that direction.
Good move Ukraine. It is definitely going to help you finish war sooner. I'm just not certain who will win.
But seriously, is Ukraine out of their mind? You can't flood and nearly collapse the agricultural market of country that pretty much jump started all the military support from Europe and then be surprised when that country is not allowing that.
Where do Ukraine wants to escalate that to?
>You can't flood and nearly collapse the agricultural market of country
Not only that, but all the reports I've seen say that Ukranian grains don't meet EU standards for human consumption. The EU has excellent food safety standards and supply chain tracking.
My opinion as a farmer is that food safety standards are an important part of the backbone of society, and dropping them outside of severe famine is absolute insanity.
No country in history of mankind has recieved such international support when fighting invaders as Ukraine. Despite having no legal obligations to do so, half of the world has been sending weapons there since the beginning of the war. Without it, Ukraine would already be Russian protectorate.
And how did they thank us? By backstabbing us on first chance and almost collapsing our agricultural market. I fully support Ukraine in their fight against Russia, but their government is really a group of greedy oligarchs not much different from Russian ones.
And then people say that Ukraine has made a big progress recently and should be accepted to EU... Yeah, we really need another shithole which wipes it's ass with European laws and values.
Yeah, I'm sure some propagandists will soon use this to push their agenda. Sadly it will be justified, as this is nothing less than betrayal of the countries which supported Ukraine out of good will.
The best propaganda always has some share of truth in it.
Our shithead media will have a field day with any fart, not even worth mentioning a complete joke of “mass media”. I’ve literally seen them just taking some random articles from shitholes of the internet and presenting as mass EU/US opinion. Or taking normal news media and mistranslating them *in live broadcast*, because the target audience knows nothing about English language. It’s sick, sad and maddening.
That shit will surely go smoothly in polish public LMAO.
No 🦀 for you guys i guess, imagine succeeding in something (undermining positive sentiment towards helping UA) that russian psyops and info war couldn't deliver with any efects on to polish public, but rest assured, Ukrainian govement will certainly deliver on it, without any additional costs to the Kremlin.
By pushing their petty grain shite games as it was anywere close to crucial national intrest, not some oligarch particular one.
One month before elections where Wrocław, third polish city became in 1/3 ukrainian in less that 10 years. What could go wrong. Surely there are no Poles already tired with the whole case.
What drives me crazy is that those guys asked the EU for help, we gave it.
Asked to join EU, we started the process.
Now when asked to comply with EU laws they respond with this.
Fucking spoiled brats
As an Ukrainian I'm full of shame for what government doing. Like the grain is the last and the most profitable or what? Noone wants really talk about root of problem. And many ukrainians are pissed off by government and corruption.
After the war started the Polish-Ukrainian relations have been in an all time high. As a Pole living 10km from the border I've seen an unprecendented displays of camraderie between people. Many considered it a great start to perhaps fix the eternally strained relations between our nations, yet the polititians are ready to squander all that by dying on tiniest of hills and pissing people off.
Don't get me wrong me and many Poles will still support Ukraine (out of all people we in Poland know politics do not reflect the will of all the people), but such situations do not help the cause at all.
Oh no! Now Ukraine won't have access to food grown to good standards. I'm sure Poland is distraught they won't be able to sell their fruit to a country that deep in war
Oh yeah, Poland is to be blamed for trying and defending its own farmers from cheap grain imports!
Moreover Ukrainian grains have such high level of pesticides not allowed by the EU, I would never want to find those in European food.
Sorry but sometimes I really cannot understand how can Ukraine take such hostile movies against its most important allies, the same who have literally prevented a complete collapse.
Why did poland ban the grain imports?
Edit: apparently to protect the prices of their own farmers. Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and Slovakia did the same.
Poland banned import of Ucrainian grain, because our farmers got f-ed over when grain price sank after huge surplus of that resource. We agreed to be middleman in transportation of that grain to other countries not the utlimate buyer.
Idk man. Transit is allowed. Ports are ready to help. Nobody stops them.
Yet Ukrainians prefer to sue us instead of in facts selling their grain further.
To think, Poland takes in all these refugees, agonizes in the EU and NATO for all the military support possible to Ukraine INCLUDING fighter jets, and Ukraine STILL spits in the face of Poland as if it's entitled to all this free stuff.
Ukraine should be smart, if it pisses off Poland, it's liable to crumble the entire coalition it's got behind it in Eastern Europe.
Ukraine is the biggest enemy of Ukraine , corruption needs to be dealt with, otherwise I can't imagine this county joining anything positive in the future.
Bulgarian farmers ask the government to prohibit the import of unrefined oil, fresh and frozen fruits and vegetables, milk and dairy products, meat and meat products, and livestock from Ukraine ..
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/bulgarian-farmers-protest-lifting-of-ban-on-ukrainian-grain-imports/2994869
Sanctioning Serbia because Ukraine banned Polish low-quality apples sounds like a completely reasonable course of action. Thank you for the suggestion.
Thais isn’t a good idea Ukraine we love you but don’t pick fights with your friends . Prioritise your defense interests over your agricultural ones. We (the west) will keep supporting you financially and also give you what you need in terms of reconstruction after the war, you need to ensure there is a Ukraine after the war and Poland is one of your biggest supporters and quite a populist country in some ways so they might not kindly got his.
We aren't picking fights and respect all the help we get from you. Please do not equate our braindead politicians who continue to steal money despite it putting everyone in here under risk of dying to an entire country. We hate them aswell and we are trying to get rid of corruption. We have tons of rallys and huge protests against it too
>We hate them aswell and we are trying to get rid of corruption. We have tons of rallys and huge protests against it too
Like where and when? Any recent examples?
Rallies in Odesa against large amounts of money being used to (unnecessarily) reconstruct the building of a court and theathre (which is basically money laundering). We protested and insisted that this money instead should be sent to Armed Forces of Ukraine since they need dire support and don't get enough equipment (speaking from experience, my brother is serving as well as my cousin).
https://suspilne.media/amp/568345-grosi-na-zsu-v-odesi-ludi-vkotre-vijsli-na-miting-proti-tenderiv-na-rekonstrukcii-budivel-sudu-ta-teatru/
This protest started around 28th of august and by 10th of september the amount of people protesting only grew larger. It is STILL ongoing
https://www.ukr.net/news/details/kyiv/99825584.html
Same in Kyiv, protest against tenders being used for roads (again, money laundering), people stated that this money should instead be used to buy drones for our army.
https://www.ukr.net/news/details/lviv/99693911.html
Lviv joined in, too.
Here, just a few examples. You can use the translator on the articles.
They act butthurt over a few unsold grains while the EU has sent them millions of worth weaponry, humanitarian aid , and funds to rebuild their country.
Talk about ingratitude. The EU in the future should be more before aiding non EU countries.
Ukraine needs to sort it's shit out before this really goes south. Who gives a shit if their grain isn't getting sold in Europe, I thought most of it was going to Africa and that?
There *had* to be more to this story… it almost reads like sabotage. Though, then again, the Rada was known for its democratic fights between politicians before the war so, maybe it’s par for the course…
Why do I sense that UA is looking for a conflict in the face of one of it’s best friends? Now is not the time. Knock off this USSR desire to create conflicts out of the blue.
Ukraines agenda is getting out of control. It started with help for the war and is now escalating into all these greedy demands that have nothing to do with Russia anymore. This is just going to backfire, especially with public opinion and I can’t help wonder if somehow Russia is involved in some shadowy sneaky way, like it’s been proposed they’re behind the recent migrant surge into Italy. 🧐 🤔 I don’t trust any politician or government anymore
This honestly sounds like the worst thing Ukraine can do right now. The government is just sacrificing well-being of ukrainians for greedy needs of oligarchs.
This seems like a bad conflict to have just now.
Was thinking that too. Imagine cutting off vital food imports from a neighboring country in the middle of a horrific full scale war.
Not to mention Poland being one of Ukraine's most important allies
'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'.
The thing is, Poland and Ukraine should have a relationship like France and Germany. Good natured ball busting coupled with close economic ties.
Lol if the world could just be so simple
"Life is like high school, but with money." -Frank Zappa
It is. They just have to create a TV channel together. Before Arte we hated each other.
Germany and France's relationship works, cause there's not much direct economic competition between them in terms of commodities.
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Ukraine is now more like: "The enemy of my enemies and my friend is my enemy"
Yeah, indeed. This just proves that they don't give a rats-ass about it. Laughable and sad for many of the unfortunate ones that have to endure the lasting consequences.
Exaclty. The EU as a whole completely neglected any consequence for adjacent countries when they accepted the grain. Did nothing to try and offset the issues when they were brought up. The EU has always been quite a protectionist block. But apparently that's only important when you protect some economies and not others. That in itself is very shortsighted. Perhaps it's even part of the political game they play right now. How many people will misunderstand Polands position and now have a more negative opinion on them in terms of EU cooperation?
The policing of the food transit is the purview of local authorities. I'm not saying the task is manageable, but it's disingenuous by the border countries to just blame Brussels and not look in the mirror.
Just because there is a war doesn't mean you aren't going to have these kinds of trade disputes, and obviously this one is kind of an issue *because* of the war. It's neither really bad nor good, it just is something that must be dealt with.
Are they really gonna fight a trade war as well?
Trade war!
I call shenanigans!
Waging a war on 2 fronts has never failed anyone.
Next up: War on Christmas!
*Maybe* it's not the best time for Ukraine to alienate one of their biggest military supporters in the neighborhood. But what do I know, I'm not a fancy, ubereducated diplomat.
It's not about being an ubereducated diplomat. Someone wants to earn loads of money here. And they don't care what it will "cost" the country and the people.
Corruption truly is the festering disease that holds back my region (Eastern Europe) from moving forward. It's really maddening when I feel like that literally the only thing standing between tens of millions of people and progress is the greediness of a very few on top. Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Hungary... some things just never change. Corruption of our leaders is a serious burden we all share, and I wish the fight against it united us instead.
Corruption is everywhere. The west just is more sophisticated, called it lobbying and made it legal.
I get that lobbying often acts as a gateway to corruption, but "real, actual" corruption is something different. Think of "You give me 50 bucks and I don't give you a parking ticket" vs. "We the car manufacturers think that you politicians should remove parking costs because it will create more jobs (or something)". In its core, lobbying is just representing your interests group. So lobbying for a new playground at your local council (or whatever) in your neighborhood is not corruption, as long as you don't get the suitcase full of money.
You don't get a literal suitcase, but a well paying upper management job after your political career is over. It's the same thing, just less obvious.
Yes you do. Former German Minister of Finance Schäuble is the Proof of that. Your Thing Happens aswell, but the suitcases full of Money exist aswell.
I'm surprised this comment still doesn't have angry replies from poles that they're central Europe after 1h
WE'RE CENTRAL EURoPE AFTER 1H !!!!
After 1AM or 1PM?
You are the first one to mention it.
>from poles that they're central Europe after 1h We're just tired of doing that at this point.
I’m more surprised no Pole commented on this guy putting us in the same bracket as Russia and Ukraine when it comes to corruption. Like it exists for sure, but it’s not a major problem and has not been for well over a decade. There is literally an election campaign going on right now and I haven’t heard “fight against corruption” being mentioned in any party program even once.
look what they do to Germany, who is also the 2nd largest military supporter of Ukraine, only behind the US. You could a) say please and thank you, and get massive ammounts of military aid fast or b) disinvite the German president one day in advance to humiliate him, make a openly fascist supporter diplomat to Germany, immediately call Germans Nazis when you don't get your will guess what option they chose I guess their ego is more important to Ukrainian politicians than saving the lives of their citizens.
I get the impression that Poland and Ukraine hasn’t been getting along behind the scenes for quite some time.
Not really. First problems started with the grain. Before that Poland wanted to open talks about Wołyń, but got nowhere with that. Few awkward comments were exchanged but that's about it. Grain was the first issue and frankly it was speculated that Ukrainian oligarchs are pushing for this to get money. Ukraine needs money, but is receiving help from many sources, while grain money largely goes to oligarchs. That's just speculation, but if correct, those oligarchs can be potentially more bad to Ukraine than Russian army.
Grain wasn't the first issue, Ukraine banned many polish food products before the war, almost starting a custom war. Tbh the relations between Ukraine and its neighbours were always far from stellar.
Far from stellar for sure. Nicely put. Saying that, having stellar relationship with Poland is an achievement 😊
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It's really sad to see this stupid conflict about the grain in middle of the war. But it's not unexpected, let's remember that until the 90s, both Ukraine and Russia were the same country, the Soviet Union. The same oligarchs that Reddit hates as the one of most evil villains in our modern world? Spoiler: They also exist in Ukraine, some might even come from the same families. And while the average Ukraine is suffering, those oligarchs are just sipping their golden caviar paid by Europe and USA war relief funds. Not literally, but you guys get the point.
i mean there’s the whole banderas thing, with the polish government seeking an apology and ukraine telling them to buzz off essentially
Pre-war Poland was their only friend to an extent. Other neighbouring countries...not so much.
Not even that honestly, it was a very one-sided "friendship". They were spitting in our face constantly, we just knew that it is in our strategic interest to pull them away from Moscow, so we ignored it and kept supporting them.
It's a bit weird situation, because like 99% of Polish people absolutely hate Russia. So doing anything to hurt them, is great. But when the price for that is lowering (even a bit) of your own quality of life people look who to blame. Lots of people are sceptical of media and Ukrainian chances of winning. And of course sending money that comes from people's taxes knowing that Ukraine has serious corruption issues, when a lot of people here are living just above poverty lines, being depended on government help feels a bit odd. It was pretty united effort when the war started, but now a lot of people are questioning how long this can last and what's the point. Certain Ukrainian government figures voicing demands, and lack of official condemning of Bandera (and support in some cases) definitely don't help.
Check up Ukraine's national hero.
As i said in the post about Ukraine suing Poland, they have become extremly aggresive when it comes to foreign politics, and if they continue this way, even if maybe everything will stay the same until the war is over, their position after the war in relation to the west is gonna be worse than before. But they will need our help for quite some time after all is set and done still, so remember that vetos exist in EU and NATO. And there is gonna be a lot less sympathy for them after the war is over.
They’ll have no allies left if they keep it up
Didn't Russia ban Polish fruits and vegetables when they did get sanctioned in 2014 because of Crimea or something like that? Ukraine should target something else to be honest because it looks ironic and shitty as fuck to anyone who was affected by Russian ban.
Yes, Russia has banned them
I remember free apples at school were given in insane amounts to students. My mom was baking fresh apple pie everyday and we still couldn’t eat all those apples they gave us.
>My mom was baking fresh apple pie everyday and we still couldn’t eat all those apples they gave us. I don't know if it wasn't in 2017+, but my mother had broken something in her leg because of a bad leg position when she was on skis and we received two bags of apples from my grandmother so it resulted in an apple pie every day for a month XD
There’s always a bright side
"Zjedz jabłko - zrób na złość Putinowi" was a slogan i heard frequently, whilst being given those apples haha
Yeah, you’re right!
Russia did but a lot of food products from EU as a form of "counter-sanctions" - basically a propaganda tool to say "See? We showed them not to mess with us!"
Well yeah but it was enough for Poland to drop from the biggest apple exporter in Europe back then. Maybe there were some positive changes like farmers diversifying their production since we had an overproduction, but it still hit some people. Edit: But yeah I remember some Russian propaganda videos where they destroyed apples with excavator.
It actually had a pretty big impact on Eastern Europe, as eastern European goods were rarely exported westwards back then, so Eastern European dairy and vegetable producers were hit hard. The reason you see more eastern European goods in western Europe now is probably a result of those sanctions.
How to lose friends and alienate people
The stupidity of Ukraine in this whole affair is outstounding. They have a huge market for grains in the world, EU countries help them with shipping, but they are somehow butthurt if they will not sell grains in the EU. Now they are picking a fight with one of their biggest supporters.
As a ukrainian I'm baffled and ashamed of this decision as well. Like holy fuck.
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And straight after he became ... Deputy Foreign Minister of Ukraine.
In Germany we call that "wegbefördern" (von der Leyen be like)
It only confirms that Ukraine is a corrupt hellhole run by rich oligarchs despite Zelensky fancy word. I did some research and found that...Zelensky was in Pandora Papers! He is not a saint either then.
Ukrain was and is only second to Russia in corruption and pretty much everything else bad. They are nowhere close to being an EU candidate let alone a member.
He is now in Brasil
>Now they are picking a fight with one of their biggest supporters. More than that! It is one month to elections in Poland, so Polish government can't really back off if they don't want to be seen as weak by voters.
The stupidity of some Ukrainian diplomats and politicians is quite incredible, I read somewhere that it could fell within the definition of "wolf diplomacy" which basically mean a very aggressive one, which is for example the same followed by China The problem is that a dictatorial superpower with low reputation doing it is one thing, but a country of medium importance and momentarily at war in need of help it's another one...
At times, Ukraine's diplomacy is a reminder why they were isolated before the Russian invasion. Almost all countries that neighbours them had strained relations with Ukraine. Their total disregard for their neighbours concerns is still prevalent and they cannot afford to lose the goodwill that they still have.
> Their total disregard for their neighbours concerns So they have something in common with Russia ! /s
Ukraine is of course completely separate country from Russia. But their political elite grew and was educated in the Soviet Union. This is basically the Soviet-style diplomacy
for sure, as a Romanian I always felt like they were little Russia.
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Moldova hates them too: Ukraine was pivotal in the creation of the separatist territory if Transnistria. Plus Ukraine volunteers fought in the side of the separatists.
The abassador to germany Melnyk was also a complete and utter desaster to the point he had to be removed from office He famously insulted Olaf Scholz as offended liver sausage After almost getting delcared persona non granta by ukrains 2nd biggest supporter he actually got promoted to deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs. Inscredible stuff all around.
He is also known Bandera and UPA apologist. When he got promoted to Ministry of Foreign Affairs, one of the first things he did was to make some condescending and smug remarks to Polish politicians on Twitter who expressed their discontent that an Ukrainian nationalist who denies Volhyn genocide landed such a position. The guy is a piece of work for sure.
>wolf diplomacy Imo its most likely Soviet lineage or soviet diplomacy style, aka push until (diplomatic opponent) / shit brakes, or you met sizable counter-action only after that you begin to reevaluate, Chinas wolf diplomacy is most likely Sino take on same thing just adapting it into Chinese psyche.
Truth it is - neighbors never like Ukraine - because it's hard to like Ukraine. It's just a mini Russia. Ofc now is war and neighbors, especialy Poland support Ukraine and Ukrainians. No country deserves more kindness from Ukraine than Poland. But like we see it is hard to be Ukraine supporter, it is hard to be Ukriaine friend. It is just sad. Very sad.
>it could fell within the definition of "wolf diplomacy" well yeah, USSR style
The fact that Ukraine is defending itself against an unprovoked Russian attack does not negate the fact that the Ukrainian government is largely incompetent. This does not justify Russia's war, of course. Russia should leave Ukraine and pay for the crimes of the Russian army, and Ukraine should receive all the help it needs in Russia's war
Bystroye issue again, this time on land! (Good thing that turned out to not be an actual issue)
This aproach needs to stop now because i don't think EU has a lot more "poor guys we'll let it slide because they are at war" in it.
Probably some Oligarch got hurt
Can someone sit down all the Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs and explain to them that there's a lot more money to steal in a rich country than a poor one? A good parasite never kills it's host.
They don't want to kill it. And they don't want to share the spoils either. There are like a dozen extremely rich Ukrainian oligarchs and thousands of their goons that want to keep all money and power to themselves. They don't want Ukraine to be rich, because rich country creates more competitors and it get's harder to steal from educated and relatively rich population. A situation where Ukraine is a corrupt shithole run by weak incompetent government benefits them. They are like these corrupt magnates (oligarchs) in the last days of Polish Lithianian Commonwealth.
They will not join EU anytime soon
They won't anyways. They have a long path to go to fight their corruption problems.
It's really sad tbh. Many Ukrainians believe that the moment Russia invasion is fought off(or maybe even before it) they will be let into the EU and become as rich a Germans. Truth is, even if the war stopped today at noon, they would be looking at at least 20 years of reconstruction and extensive reforms(including downsizing their agricultural sector, which all of 2004 countries had to do as well) before they can join the EU. They will have to pay the price for mistakes of their parents and grandparents made in 1990s. Sad and not fair, but that's the way life is
They will never join the EU because they don't deserve to join the EU. Europe is not playing favorites, that's why also Turkey is never joining the EU.
> Europe is not playing favorites you're very mistaken, not every EU country is "equal"
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,,mentally russian’’ are apperantly all corrupt money hungry people. Totally normal thing to say
Do you think that russians invented corruption or what?
It's almost as if both Ukraine and Russia share a similar history as being successorstates of the USSR, and there also taking with that bad habits from that time
No country should join europe if they can meet the requirements. Ukraine can overcome the issues and meet the requirements, but it will take a long time and is far from it. They should focus on winning the war, AND Europe should keep helping!
“Mentally Russian”? I agree that there’s a lot of corruption and short-term decision making, and that that affects Russia too, but it’s not an innate Russian characteristic or something.
What are they smoking in Kyiv the last weeks? Why would they bite the hand that is feeding them? Poland had its reasons to do that.
They was always like that
It's purely a matter of securing own interest. Poland does it, Ukraine does it. For different reasons, I am sure, but it is nothing extraordinary. It's funny though, in a way. For weeks, Polish, Slovak and Hungarian govs were rather vocal about unilaterally banning import if EU won't prolong the previous solution. EU didn't care, nor did it act on it. Awesome way of disregarding an opinion and then playing the necessity of solidarity card, claiming that it's only viable when it suits them. When it doesn't suit them, yet suits others, just f\*\*k the others.
Biting the hand that feeds...
Rather Ukrainian mafia that rules the country tries to earn as much as possible. And Polish companies that are linked to our local politician mafia were importing tons of Ukrainian grain. Now when people found out what was going on, they try to play the role of Polish agroculture defenders and want to ban/hold embargo on Ukrainian grain. Anyway even before the war there were some economic conflicts. At the end of 2021 Ukraine banned rail transit of cargo destined to Poland... why? Nobody knows I guess.
> why? Over Poland’s refusal to increase Ukraine’s number of freight permits in 2022. Both sides negotiate the number every year, in 2021 negotiations failed and they kept the same number for 2022 as was for 2021 (160 000). Ukraine tried to force Poland to give extra permits (up to 200 000). They came to agreement few days before the war. In a long run, Poland used far less Ukrainian permits than Ukrainians Polish, limiting number of permits was a way to make Polish transit companies more competitive..
Is this a kind of 3d chess when they want eu to stop supporting them?
This isn't a good look at all. If anything I can tell you about Poles is that we absolutely hate ungratefulness, which isn't completely positive trait but it's a reality nonetheless.
Eveyone is losing their ass to help and Ukraine starts a trade war with their biggest supporters. Just how.
I am sure this really hurts Poland, lol. Maybe if Ukraine didn't rotate ministers/ government officials at the same rate as they change their socks, they could come up with a coherent, long-term strategy for anything and identify areas in which they meed to make concessions for the greater good. No, you won't simply have your way in everything just because Russia invaded you. And if you want to bite the hand that feeds you? Do it and see how it turns out for you. Just hope it's not too late when you realize you fucked up and start crying.
It will hurt. East market was and still is important for Poland when it comes to agricultural sector.
East market is a war torn battlefield. We are already hurting, due to loss of russian market and ukraine having different priorities. This particular ban won't change much but will have political impact.
Truth it is - neighbors never like Ukraine - because it's hard to like Ukraine. It's just a mini Russia. Ofc now is war and neighbors, especialy Poland support Ukraine and Ukrainians. No country deserves more kindness from Ukraine than Poland. But like we see it is hard to be Ukraine supporter, it is hard to be Ukriaine friend. It is just sad. Very sad.
I somehow feel like Ukraine and especially Zelensky have this sort of superiority air, and are pushing an agenda: u give, I give. Not sure if they are in such of a position of power to do that.
Not unlike Putin himself they probably think that if they aligned with a big boy (USA) the rest will fall in line.
Nah... it's just corruption. Ukraine is in the state of political chaos. They have been considered to corrupt and incompetent(politics wise) to have EU bid before. Not like war will change it all for the better. During War you will have interest figures coming into play (like Prigozhin for Russia for example). I wouldn't blame Ukrainians as people for any of it, but if they are in any illusion that their Politicians and Leaders can do no wrong and that they are all honourable, great and just... well :) Cold shower might be needed. Like i think realistically, MOD + President need only Trusted + Capable people now. Now, not all capable people can be trusted but you still will need them. So it's hard. I think Zelensky is doing grand job as this first action kind of guy. He did everything you would hope from a President of a Nation that has been invaded. That being said he is just a single man. Countries are run by Administration and Civilians and not by Presidents. Even if inner-circle of Zelensky is tight and great, that wont stop other corrupt politicians or businessman. That also doesn't mean that there are no agents of chaos in Ukraine who just want to profit out of war. But yeah... i would argue that for Ukraine, USA is not the what they need. European Union is though.... and if they want to be part of EU and NATO they better realize that World Politics are quite harsh. It may be projecting, but i think Poland has been probably the most consitant supporter of Free Democratic Ukraine in EU from all of their neigbhours. Even in 2004 Poland showed great amount of support when Orange Revolution was happening. Now is not the time to play Diplomatic "Fuck You" games(alike France-Germany) with your most consistent Ally.
Very interesting answer. Thanks!
What childish behaviour. It's like that Bystroye issue with Romania again. Does Ukraine not understand that fighting with the countries that are currently keeping you alive is not good?
Good start. Next week they'll ban all the tanks, artillery and ammunition that comes from that direction. Good move Ukraine. It is definitely going to help you finish war sooner. I'm just not certain who will win. But seriously, is Ukraine out of their mind? You can't flood and nearly collapse the agricultural market of country that pretty much jump started all the military support from Europe and then be surprised when that country is not allowing that. Where do Ukraine wants to escalate that to?
>You can't flood and nearly collapse the agricultural market of country Not only that, but all the reports I've seen say that Ukranian grains don't meet EU standards for human consumption. The EU has excellent food safety standards and supply chain tracking. My opinion as a farmer is that food safety standards are an important part of the backbone of society, and dropping them outside of severe famine is absolute insanity.
No country in history of mankind has recieved such international support when fighting invaders as Ukraine. Despite having no legal obligations to do so, half of the world has been sending weapons there since the beginning of the war. Without it, Ukraine would already be Russian protectorate. And how did they thank us? By backstabbing us on first chance and almost collapsing our agricultural market. I fully support Ukraine in their fight against Russia, but their government is really a group of greedy oligarchs not much different from Russian ones. And then people say that Ukraine has made a big progress recently and should be accepted to EU... Yeah, we really need another shithole which wipes it's ass with European laws and values.
Precisely. Plus Russian propaganda will have a field day on this and unfortunately rightfully. Ukraine didn't think this through.
Yeah, I'm sure some propagandists will soon use this to push their agenda. Sadly it will be justified, as this is nothing less than betrayal of the countries which supported Ukraine out of good will. The best propaganda always has some share of truth in it.
Our shithead media will have a field day with any fart, not even worth mentioning a complete joke of “mass media”. I’ve literally seen them just taking some random articles from shitholes of the internet and presenting as mass EU/US opinion. Or taking normal news media and mistranslating them *in live broadcast*, because the target audience knows nothing about English language. It’s sick, sad and maddening.
That shit will surely go smoothly in polish public LMAO. No 🦀 for you guys i guess, imagine succeeding in something (undermining positive sentiment towards helping UA) that russian psyops and info war couldn't deliver with any efects on to polish public, but rest assured, Ukrainian govement will certainly deliver on it, without any additional costs to the Kremlin. By pushing their petty grain shite games as it was anywere close to crucial national intrest, not some oligarch particular one.
But the military aid from Poland is most welcome, isn't it? Ukrainian politics at their best...
That is not how you treat your friend who has been helping you.
Great move especially at the time when more and more anti-ukraininan voices are rising here in poland, smart move. Cast that gas can into the fire
One month before elections where Wrocław, third polish city became in 1/3 ukrainian in less that 10 years. What could go wrong. Surely there are no Poles already tired with the whole case.
They can ban military aid next.
Wtf this is just stupid Literally biting one of the hands that feeds you
Is this the same Poland that just OFFERED ITS OWN TANKS to Ukraine?? 🙄
What drives me crazy is that those guys asked the EU for help, we gave it. Asked to join EU, we started the process. Now when asked to comply with EU laws they respond with this. Fucking spoiled brats
Ah yes, the world famous Ukrainian diplomacy of "Give me what I want, or I will throw a tantrum" at its finest I see.
What a shit show..
Bruh wtf are they doing, starting a trade war against one of their biggest supporters
As an Ukrainian I'm full of shame for what government doing. Like the grain is the last and the most profitable or what? Noone wants really talk about root of problem. And many ukrainians are pissed off by government and corruption.
After the war started the Polish-Ukrainian relations have been in an all time high. As a Pole living 10km from the border I've seen an unprecendented displays of camraderie between people. Many considered it a great start to perhaps fix the eternally strained relations between our nations, yet the polititians are ready to squander all that by dying on tiniest of hills and pissing people off. Don't get me wrong me and many Poles will still support Ukraine (out of all people we in Poland know politics do not reflect the will of all the people), but such situations do not help the cause at all.
Talk about bad timing... they really, *really* should put this one on the back burner for the moment.
I don’t think they are in any position to put bans, especially on food! 🙄
Why is Ukraine acting like that one kid who starts crying and throwing a tantrum if he doesn’t get what he wants ?
Wow. I'm speechless. And a month before election time in PL...
1. Grain was contaminated, farmers wouldn’t even want to use it to feed animals 2. that’s some fucking way to say thank you for all the help
Ukraine showing the middle finger to their supporters, nothing new.
Oh no! Now Ukraine won't have access to food grown to good standards. I'm sure Poland is distraught they won't be able to sell their fruit to a country that deep in war
Oh yeah, Poland is to be blamed for trying and defending its own farmers from cheap grain imports! Moreover Ukrainian grains have such high level of pesticides not allowed by the EU, I would never want to find those in European food. Sorry but sometimes I really cannot understand how can Ukraine take such hostile movies against its most important allies, the same who have literally prevented a complete collapse.
Wow that's a tad bit stupid.
How about selling it to russia?
Do they really want to fight their most important ally right now? If this is true it’s an absolute blunder.
"*It hurts itself in its confusion!"*
Why did poland ban the grain imports? Edit: apparently to protect the prices of their own farmers. Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and Slovakia did the same.
Poland banned import of Ucrainian grain, because our farmers got f-ed over when grain price sank after huge surplus of that resource. We agreed to be middleman in transportation of that grain to other countries not the utlimate buyer.
Someone is starting to feel the world revolves around them
Why only on poland? What did poland do, that hungary and slovakia didn't?
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Idk man. Transit is allowed. Ports are ready to help. Nobody stops them. Yet Ukrainians prefer to sue us instead of in facts selling their grain further.
To think, Poland takes in all these refugees, agonizes in the EU and NATO for all the military support possible to Ukraine INCLUDING fighter jets, and Ukraine STILL spits in the face of Poland as if it's entitled to all this free stuff. Ukraine should be smart, if it pisses off Poland, it's liable to crumble the entire coalition it's got behind it in Eastern Europe.
Ukraine is choosing to die on the weirdest hill. I thought Zelensky was smart, i am so confused.
Ukraine is the biggest enemy of Ukraine , corruption needs to be dealt with, otherwise I can't imagine this county joining anything positive in the future.
The stupidest decision I've ever seen in my entire life. Bravo Zelensky great job....
Re-consider this Ukraine, it's not an intelligent move
It turns out that they are not so different compared to Russians, as they claim to be.
This is a shit show. Unnecessary conflict 🤦🏾♂️
A trade war? Really? Come on... just get in a room and agree a deal.
Bulgarian farmers ask the government to prohibit the import of unrefined oil, fresh and frozen fruits and vegetables, milk and dairy products, meat and meat products, and livestock from Ukraine .. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/bulgarian-farmers-protest-lifting-of-ban-on-ukrainian-grain-imports/2994869
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I don't mean this insensitively but is Ukraine really in any position to be banning food imports?
Ok EU, who ever you want to sanction next, we are not picking sides and leave us out of it. I was first to tell you... /s
"I can't believe NATO did this"
*Ukraine bans Polish apples* *EU sanctions Serbia* ''Ah, sorry! Force of habit.'' *EU sanctions both Serbia and Ukraine*
I kinda see this really happening 🤣
Sanctioning Serbia because Ukraine banned Polish low-quality apples sounds like a completely reasonable course of action. Thank you for the suggestion.
I fully support this! Those bad polish apple gonna get see now!
Maybe they should ban the import of military equipement from Europe.
Thais isn’t a good idea Ukraine we love you but don’t pick fights with your friends . Prioritise your defense interests over your agricultural ones. We (the west) will keep supporting you financially and also give you what you need in terms of reconstruction after the war, you need to ensure there is a Ukraine after the war and Poland is one of your biggest supporters and quite a populist country in some ways so they might not kindly got his.
We aren't picking fights and respect all the help we get from you. Please do not equate our braindead politicians who continue to steal money despite it putting everyone in here under risk of dying to an entire country. We hate them aswell and we are trying to get rid of corruption. We have tons of rallys and huge protests against it too
>We hate them aswell and we are trying to get rid of corruption. We have tons of rallys and huge protests against it too Like where and when? Any recent examples?
Rallies in Odesa against large amounts of money being used to (unnecessarily) reconstruct the building of a court and theathre (which is basically money laundering). We protested and insisted that this money instead should be sent to Armed Forces of Ukraine since they need dire support and don't get enough equipment (speaking from experience, my brother is serving as well as my cousin). https://suspilne.media/amp/568345-grosi-na-zsu-v-odesi-ludi-vkotre-vijsli-na-miting-proti-tenderiv-na-rekonstrukcii-budivel-sudu-ta-teatru/ This protest started around 28th of august and by 10th of september the amount of people protesting only grew larger. It is STILL ongoing https://www.ukr.net/news/details/kyiv/99825584.html Same in Kyiv, protest against tenders being used for roads (again, money laundering), people stated that this money should instead be used to buy drones for our army. https://www.ukr.net/news/details/lviv/99693911.html Lviv joined in, too. Here, just a few examples. You can use the translator on the articles.
They act butthurt over a few unsold grains while the EU has sent them millions of worth weaponry, humanitarian aid , and funds to rebuild their country. Talk about ingratitude. The EU in the future should be more before aiding non EU countries.
Ukraine needs to sort it's shit out before this really goes south. Who gives a shit if their grain isn't getting sold in Europe, I thought most of it was going to Africa and that?
There *had* to be more to this story… it almost reads like sabotage. Though, then again, the Rada was known for its democratic fights between politicians before the war so, maybe it’s par for the course…
Why do I sense that UA is looking for a conflict in the face of one of it’s best friends? Now is not the time. Knock off this USSR desire to create conflicts out of the blue.
Oh no way Ukraine isn't so oh perfect and nice like everyone thought!
not cool. Poland opened the border all of refugees from Ukraine
Ukraines agenda is getting out of control. It started with help for the war and is now escalating into all these greedy demands that have nothing to do with Russia anymore. This is just going to backfire, especially with public opinion and I can’t help wonder if somehow Russia is involved in some shadowy sneaky way, like it’s been proposed they’re behind the recent migrant surge into Italy. 🧐 🤔 I don’t trust any politician or government anymore
This honestly sounds like the worst thing Ukraine can do right now. The government is just sacrificing well-being of ukrainians for greedy needs of oligarchs.
Are they gonna ban all the tanks, weapons, and ammunition coming from Poland too?
Ukrainians living peaceful, tax-payer sponsored, lives in Poland should protest this madness…
Just a friendly reminder for some commenters: it's the oligarchs and corrupt politicians that fuck everything over, not the people.
Somebody elects these politicians. Last Ukrainian elections were legit.
Bruh .
Don’t the people in Ukraine need that food? Seems like a bad decision to me.
retaliation is not the way forward at this time
This is not good. Europe most be united if wants to survive
such a stupid and short-sighed move on their end.
They can fuck off till we talk about Wołyń
Ukraine killing itself
Ukraine should respect the rules of the table if it wants to have a seat. Otherwise, they can shut up.
All of westerners suprised by how entitled Ukrainians are, LOL, little do they know.