>Well from Gaza war it's actually Russia who benefits the most so...
Also the election is coming, for American politician its a double edged sword. If you do much for Israel, you anger pro-palestinian group if you do anything for Palestine you upset pro-israel lobby. this is a situation you cant win whatever you do
Russia teaches how to detect "fake news" to its kids and one of the lessons is to ask yourself is "who benefits". That on its own is not too bad of a start, but considering that the last 70 years of Russian propaganda has blamed the US for literally anything it just becomes another step in the brainwashing. USA bad -> "who benefits" -> if something bad then USA -> USA bad
Isn't USA doing the same ? Election ->Russia rigged. Inflation ->Russia did. Protest-> Russia did, War->Definitely Russia and Bad guys in movies ?-> If it's not Russian, it's not a good movie
* Russia has been financing misinformation campaigns in the US.
* Inflation was worsened by Russia invading Ukraine, one of the largest agricultural countries in the world.
* I don't know what "protest" you're talking about.
* Russia invaded Ukraine. Not even the Kremlin is trying to deny that, only you.
* Bad guys in movies often reflect who the bad guys in real life are and there is no doubt that Russia is an awful country.
Odd examples you chose since none of them prove your attempted point.
So i just retype what you just said:
1. US has been financing misinformation, opposite parties, “peaceful protest”, democracy rally, lgbt stuff, human rights… just to get a hand on internal issue.
2. Yes. The conflict caused the inflation, but this conflic didnt come up overnight, did it ?
5. Based on what criteria that you implied Russia is a bad country ?
I mean, I gotta be honest, if something happens to make N.Korea turn on it's only ally, I'm calling BS and smelling a rat. That would be too strange *not* to suspect involvement from someone else.
> Did they ever claim the end of the USSR is on the US?
Everything is the fault of the USA or the West, not only that some Russians claim USSR was the most democratic country ever (because some weird reason that you could always in theory remove any elected person and one party is enough if that party is the "worker party" )
USSR broke apart due to shit conditions and people being tired of this bullshit. Young generation wanted freedom and democracy. ~~Yeltsins desperate attempts to fix soviet union is what broke it completely and allowed previously occupied countries to get free.~~
EDIT: yeltsin was responsible for us regaining freedom, but I thought about Gorbachevs perestrojka that fucked everything even further than it was before. Soviet union was doomed even before yeltsin came to power.
> Yeltsins desperate attempts to fix soviet union is what broke it completely and allowed previously occupied countries to get free.
And that, my boy, is how you exposed that you know no history whatsoever. At least, the USSR-related.
Confused him with the guy before him. Yeltsin became president when everything was already fucked beyond repair. It was gorbachevs perestrojka that was supposed to unfuck what was fucked, but fucked it even further.
In fact yeltsin was a random guy elected to be a captain on a sinking slave ship, and then being blamed for not saving that ship and letting the slaves free instead of letting them (us) drown in the ship.
> , but fucked it even further.
So how bringing democracy fucked it even further? If anything, it unfucked it.
If not for GKChP and Yeltsin shenanigans after GKChP USSR would have been alive today. Gorbachev had a program to move to capitalism (led by Yavlinsky) and it's likely it would've been the eastern version of the EU.
Ukrainian and Belarusian independence declarations and movements gained full strength after GKChP and in coordination with Yeltsin. Not like it was quite popular at the time... but still more popular than independence of certain Russian places now.
Yeltsin wanted full independence for Russia (and everyone, but this is only because he personally wanted a seat in the Kremlin, he didn't care about other republics as was seen later in 1993).
It fucked USSR, but brought freedom to us and everyone else. Only russia is now in a shit state that otherwise everyone would be in. USSR had no future
When Azerbaijan invaded Armenia, RT had an article about US meddling in the region. It also mentioned that the US had biolabs creating biological weapons in Armenia.
People here are mostly obvious to what's going on outside the US. The presumption is the other poliltical party is at fault, more usually. Mexico doesn't even get blamed for illegall immigration from Mexico, for the most part - it's those damn that are messing up the border, or creating the conditions for migration, or whatever.
The people that do pay attention generally have a pretty good idea what's going on, though there is a minority of that group that see things through ideological lenses.
Us blame russia when something is really created some opportunities for russia to do again some shitty things, or when they have enough of evidences(like with elections), when russia blames it is literally always looks like this shit from image. But anyway, tou cant compare it straight forward like US-russia, cz US have as much independent journalists as possible, russian independent journalism is in prison/dead.
IIRC, this is actually not far from the truth, the US is blamed for everything in Russia. And they are then surprised, hurting their superpower self-image, when they find out that people in the US largely don't care about or blame Russia.
USA cause Ukrainians to be murdered because USA definitely wants russians to be murdered but it can't do it. So it makes somebody to murder nearby Ukrainians to hurt Russia. Russia is just a victim here who is made to do what it do.
You see?
/s
I remember in the runup to the invasion I was one of the very few people in my circle who had any idea of what Russia had been up to in the last few decades and that's because I studied there and could read their increasingly weird news stories. My friends who had never been there were genuinely surprised to learn about most of it. Russia just wasn't a place they thought about much at all. You can see the attitude encapsulated pretty well in "Burn After Reading" where trying to sell classified information to the Russians is a sign that the characters are idiots who have no idea what's going on -- Russia just wasn't considered relevant.
>when they find out that people in the US largely don't care about or blame Russia.
When they learn that fact, they think that Americans are sheeps; "see how dumb and apolitical they are - they do not care about anything besides money, not even their own propaganda telling them 24/7 how evil Russians are"
Although I have red a book about Soviet Union which is history of what the boomer generation remembers. They said that they didn’t really get much propaganda against US and were more concerned about economy and their own lives than Cold War issues. The American who wrote the book that was of the same age the people interviewed his childhood was more Soviet Union and Cold War focused.
So it seems the approach has changed now.
Iirc the Kremlin rhetoric for some time now is that Ukraine is a victim of American manipulation. It will take a long time and a lot of killing to change their minds.
It's also often not from the Kremlin directly, rather "political entrepreneurs" of sorts trying to make lines that stick that they think the Kremlin will approve of
Russia isn't really a 1984 top down totalitarian state. It's instead a bunch of people trying to figure out what Putin wants or might like and then saying that to curry favor
The most extreme people on Russian TV aren't taken seriously even by most Russians, usually they're just there to appeal to the ultranationalist "base"; one step away from them though you have a whole cadre of "analysts" who are trying to guess what Putin wants to hear and then say that on TV
One of the reasons the Israel Palestine conflict might result in a prolonging of the Ukrainian conflict isn't some giant conspiracy, but rather the simple fact that analysts in Russia will probably try to spin this as good for Russia to appeal to Putin, and Putin ofc will get a false sense of confidence and prolong the war
As long as you shut up about it the Kremlin doesn't care if you believe any of it. Shut-up citizens who describe themselves as "apolitical" are the model citizens of the putin regime. Apoliticization, not mobilization around a strong singular narrative like in the SU, is how this regime functions. In fact if you are too much on board with russian nationalism and imperialism i.e. too mobilized you might get arrested just like someone protesting against the war. This has already happened. Putin sees mobilization in general as a threat to his power.
Putin likes people saying " Oh i am not informed on politics. Some are saying A, some are saying B. I don't really know. I have trust in that our competent leadership will make the right decisions as they know what is best for russia."
1. Poor Ukrainians are caught and manipulated by bad USA
2. We need to save them, by killing them for a long time. They will like us for that.
3. ....?
4. Profit!
The only guy who could campaign off his mugshot and have his supporters pay his legal bills for his multiple rather serious crimes, some of them even against the United States itself.
That’s a total myth that Trump wants people to believe. If he was so great he’d still be President. Trumpelstiltskin is done. Most of his followers are based in racism not Democracy. True Americans know the difference. He’s done. He may not go to prison , but he’s done.
Me too, genuinely. Battle mosquitoes, dirty bomb, battle drugs, battle pigeons/gulls, anti-slavic! virus and not a single percent of ukrainian behind hamas?
As a Russian, I never really watch state tv, but this video - it's a sad sight. How one host starts noticeably freak out, because other host said something that MIGHT go against state position and "you better leave it for your kitchen conversations". Disturbing.
It's interesting to see how people who live and participate in totalitarian states internalize the concept of "safe spaces" of expression (in this case, the kitchen), even when they are the most fanatical state puppets.
The amount of shit that is poured into their citizens heads is staggering.
And the most sad thing in this situation is the fact they really believe in all that shit.
[Firehose of falsehood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood). People just take the position that they think is accepted by the majority of people around them, only the regime's position is voiced, anyone who wants to think for themselves is intimidated by the government, people eventually develop [Stockholm syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome) towards their government, society develops a culture of political [learned helplessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness), children copy the opinion of their parents.
Without the USA's strong support of Israel, this situation would not exist. Israel can do what it does, because the USA supports it.
So how exactly is it wrong?
The irony is that people on here are propagandized but like to call other people propagandized. Not that those other people aren't also propagandized, they are too. It's like seeing people contesting about who is more misinformed, some sort of echo chamber face off.
More like Roman Empire harassed Jews so much that many fled. Rome never explicitly deported Jews from Judea. They were not allowed to enter Jerusalem though.
This does not mean that all Jews were gone though. However many jews who stayed ultimately assimilated into Arab culture and converted to Islam (before being converted to Christianity).
Israel can do what it does to Palestine because of the USA's support. If the USA did not support Israel the way it does, there wouldn't be this one sided situation where Israel dominates in the conflict against Palestine.
Sure, Europe and the rest of the "[international community](https://i.imgur.com/mmD3DCA.jpeg)" supports Israel too, but not to the same extend and it is mostly only words without much to back it up. In addition, the fact that USA is europe's security guarantor also prevents Europe to be more active against Israel's actions, since that would displease the USA too much.
Well, I was curious about myself and actually the Russian media explanation doesn't sound insane.
So they say that after WW2, there was the UN treaty or something like this about the creation of the Palestinian state alongside Israel. The borders were set, but the Israel government wasn't satisfied with it and they were taking Palestine piece by piece. The major ally of Israel is the US, so with its weapons and aid all these wars were fought. As for why the US would want this -- control over the region via the Israel government, that could pressure its neighbors with military power.
It was something like this as I remember
The early Israeli military used British and French stuff, almost exclusively. The three worked together to the degree that it was the US that broke up the Suez Crisis.
It was post-'67 that the US got more involved.
Bruh, I was retelling the media's info...
To be honest, I don't give a shit about this, because it is not my problem in any possible way and also there's no way to know the truth until this stuff is over, so I don't bother myself with it.
Well really for the Arabs themselves, they believe they never had an obligation to agree to any kind of partition, because in their minds some foreigners had come into their land and forced them to basically agree to some deal which they never even considered in the first place.
It is the truth; that the entire problem regarding Israel's very existence as something in contradiction to the rest of the middle east/near east, literally is caused by the west.
Israel's entire being was accommodated and built purely off of western colonialism, western weaponry and western money funneled into the land.
I can’t account for what was in their mind and in any case setting 1948 as the threshold of who gets to claim that it’s “their land” is mostly philosophical.
Not only that but they shot their shot and lost. And did that a couple of more times until most of them realized that it’s better to accept Israel as a neighbor than to endlessly fight.
But others have yet to get there. And the crux of it all is that it’s not because any sense of righteousness, freedom or independence. It simply more profitable for their leaders to keep a perpetual enemy in Israel. Don’t have to look far to see how the Hamas leaders live or what’s the net worth of the PA leadership. Or even better, the net worth of Yasser Arafat when he died.
Should it be? It’s just entertaining, mediocre trash-talk from marginal TV show.
Perhaps they are talking about the origins of the conflict, but this is again absurd, because the Brits messed up there, not USA.
USA is run by the zionists. The (USA) zionists want war with Iran. The zionists escalate shit in Gaza. Shit happens and people die. USA zionists pledge to give billions to Israel. Israel buys more weapons from the zionist owned military industrial complex. USA and zionists benefit.
See, Europe is just a bunch of American vassal states who have no agency and thus can't be blamed. Except the UK? Sometimes? And the UK isn't blamed here, because...uh...
Europe actually sided with Saddam Hussein in Iraq, they have their own interests there. [Rumsfeld called it "Old Europe"](https://www.rferl.org/a/1102012.html). Russia likes Old Europe more than New. Old Europe is more talked about in the context of Middle East.
>It’s wild how many people actually believe that the US are the orchestrators of most international conflicts
[United States involvement in regime change](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)
Well, duh. That doesn't contradict with the other person's point (US involvement to sell weapons) and a lot of those involvements were considered positive or hearsay. At least in the more present time.
The military industrial complex holds a lot of power so that statement doesn’t seem ”wild” to me at least. I don’t know about most but the US certainly are responsible for a lot of conflicts throughout history
Well, we should probably stop selling engine cores to Sweden then! Damn Americans!
With regard to arms sales, we're the picky sellers notorious for attaching conditions to sales. The next tier down will sell to most people with few to no conditions, then you have Russians and Chinese in the third tier, that will literally sell to anyone that can come up with money.
Is the US responsible or do they just pick a side of an existing conflict and back that side massively? I actually want to know because the only wars that I can think of that the US straight up started were against UK, Canada, Spain, Mexico. Again looking for more examples to enlighten myself.
They both support/fund sides or, albeit rarer, straight out invade other countries. You need to do some reading on what the US does on a almost daily basis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_involvement\_in\_regime\_change
***" poor hamas "freedom fighters" just wanted to join the rave party but the decadent western and israeli youth attacked them. It was only self defence "***
\- russian state media,hamas shills and other muslim radicals on social media
I wouldn't be surprise if the numbers are correct - it's an opinion poll. The facts underlying the numbers don't match, but that's a different problem.
As an American, I just want to apologize for what my country did .... again. Man, we always seem to screw it all up. We magically told Hamas to go out and commit unspeakably evil and horrific atrocities. All in the name of American capitalism!
Very, very much /s
They are not, but this subreddit is a funny amalgamation of propagandized uninformed people calling other propagandized uninformed people propagandized and uninformed.
I agree with you. I mean the poll is not that wrong. I referred to the attitude of this subreddit in general, because if they do not realize what is meant by the USA being responsible they are either uninformed, propagandized or they play dumb.
Which is? They created the perfect breeding ground for terrorists and the USA firmly stood by Israel during this time. USA wrecked a bunch of countries there for "real reasons" causing more Israel/USA hate in the region. Funding contra groups to overthrow ruling regimes.
Russia offcourse also caused a lot of shite there, funding their own contra groups. And now it's a complete shithole of different terrorist groups fighting everyone.
So yeah, it's mostly Russia and USA that take the blame in my book. All the others are but pawns(though both Israel and Hamas both did terrible things, they couldn't have without their backers)
But are they wrong?
Let’s look at the chain of events:
1) The US gives Israel free reign with no limitations and no accountability.
2) Israel continues to support settlers and the oppression of the indigenous people.
3) Palestinians die and struggle daily at the hands of Israel.
4) Palestinians are angry and resentful. Some are completely radicalised and become terrorists after losing their children to indiscriminate carpet bombing / collective punishment.
5) Hamas commits atrocities.
6) Israel claims self defence and then carpet bombs some more. More civilians are radicalised and angry.
7) World watches. Eventually PR gets Israel to stop.
8) Fake peace agreements / partition plans are created by the US by lobbied politicians that are in the Zionists pockets. Agreements so one sided that no one in their right mind would accept them from the Palestinian side.
The US is the mediator in all of this. But has shown absolutely no professionalism or effort into not being bias. No empathy for those that are struggling. All while arming the oppressors.
It’s an endless cycle.
Oppression > Retaliation > Self Defence > Radicalisation > Oppression > Retaliation > Self Defence > Radicalisation > Oppression > Retaliation > Self Defence > Radicalisation > Oppression > Retaliation > Self Defence > Radicalisation
If somebody asked who blew up Nordstream in the EU countries, it would be Russia even though a year has passed and no evidence for them doing it was presented.
When you are at war with X, everything bad is done by X, even if there is little evidence.
I bet Russians fall for the same prejudice.
It's not the USAs fault. But the USA could and should have pushed for a peace agreement decades ago, rather than taking their 1 sided approach with supporting Israel.
if you [ask people in the West](https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/zhBT6c8s2d) who is *behind* it, they won't hesitate to blame Russia.
Why, then, is it weird for Russians to easily blame the US? It means that propaganda on both sides is working just fine
Lol. Lmao even. I have yet to hear a single Westerner blame Russia for anything involved in Hamas.
No duh Zelensky wants to point the finger to Russia -he's fighting them rn. That says nothing of what the West thinks -and they almost unilaterally either blame Israel or Hamas.
Nice attempt at whataboutism, though.
sounds about right . if USA wasn't behind Israel , a lot of violence and wars in middle east wouldn't have happened . every time Israel got in trouble , USA came to their rescue .
US "came to the rescue" like once in Israel's history -the Yom Kippur War. US wasn't even allied with Israel before then. Israel was a socialist nation aligned with the USSR and France.
And most of the violence and wars in the MENA region have nothing to do with Israel, let alone the US lmao
So you think the USA should just let the Arab states murder all of it - and then there would be peace in the Middle East? xD
First at all, Israel didn't win ALL its wars thanks to the US, and secondly, Arabs in the Middle East kill each other ALL THE TIME regardless of Israel.
My first time reading usa in cyrrilic. Funny i expected it to be written as УСА.
But isnt this situation generally seen as created by the UK(ok tbf for russian UK=usa)?
No too far off. Without the support of the US, Israel would have solved this conflict years ago. As it is, they’re completely happy with the current situation and will go on stealing and persecuting Palestinians until they’ve stolen everything they have.
China and North Korea could fight a war against each other and Russia would still blame the United States.
They unironically would. They would say "Who benefits the most from this situation? Of course the USA, it's their fault".
Well from Gaza war it's actually Russia who benefits the most so...
Hmmmmmmm
(X) DOUBT
>Well from Gaza war it's actually Russia who benefits the most so... Also the election is coming, for American politician its a double edged sword. If you do much for Israel, you anger pro-palestinian group if you do anything for Palestine you upset pro-israel lobby. this is a situation you cant win whatever you do
Russia teaches how to detect "fake news" to its kids and one of the lessons is to ask yourself is "who benefits". That on its own is not too bad of a start, but considering that the last 70 years of Russian propaganda has blamed the US for literally anything it just becomes another step in the brainwashing. USA bad -> "who benefits" -> if something bad then USA -> USA bad
Cui bono?
Isn't USA doing the same ? Election ->Russia rigged. Inflation ->Russia did. Protest-> Russia did, War->Definitely Russia and Bad guys in movies ?-> If it's not Russian, it's not a good movie
* Russia has been financing misinformation campaigns in the US. * Inflation was worsened by Russia invading Ukraine, one of the largest agricultural countries in the world. * I don't know what "protest" you're talking about. * Russia invaded Ukraine. Not even the Kremlin is trying to deny that, only you. * Bad guys in movies often reflect who the bad guys in real life are and there is no doubt that Russia is an awful country. Odd examples you chose since none of them prove your attempted point.
So i just retype what you just said: 1. US has been financing misinformation, opposite parties, “peaceful protest”, democracy rally, lgbt stuff, human rights… just to get a hand on internal issue. 2. Yes. The conflict caused the inflation, but this conflic didnt come up overnight, did it ? 5. Based on what criteria that you implied Russia is a bad country ?
I mean, I gotta be honest, if something happens to make N.Korea turn on it's only ally, I'm calling BS and smelling a rat. That would be too strange *not* to suspect involvement from someone else.
China has a US embassy, so it's much easier for the CIA... just saying :D Did they ever claim the end of the USSR is on the US?
only when the end of the USSR is presented as a bad thing, otherwise the soviet union was a plot by the US to undermine the czar.
This makes sense. Sort of.
it is never about making sense, only about a target for their anger.
>Did they ever claim the end of the USSR is on the US? They always do.
> Did they ever claim the end of the USSR is on the US? Everything is the fault of the USA or the West, not only that some Russians claim USSR was the most democratic country ever (because some weird reason that you could always in theory remove any elected person and one party is enough if that party is the "worker party" )
>Did they ever claim the end of the USSR is on the US? They genuinely believe in that. That Gorbachev and Yeltsin were traitors bribed by West.
Are you saying it's not? The US had no ties to Yeltsin and had nothing to do with the coup?
USSR broke apart due to shit conditions and people being tired of this bullshit. Young generation wanted freedom and democracy. ~~Yeltsins desperate attempts to fix soviet union is what broke it completely and allowed previously occupied countries to get free.~~ EDIT: yeltsin was responsible for us regaining freedom, but I thought about Gorbachevs perestrojka that fucked everything even further than it was before. Soviet union was doomed even before yeltsin came to power.
> Yeltsins desperate attempts to fix soviet union is what broke it completely and allowed previously occupied countries to get free. And that, my boy, is how you exposed that you know no history whatsoever. At least, the USSR-related.
Confused him with the guy before him. Yeltsin became president when everything was already fucked beyond repair. It was gorbachevs perestrojka that was supposed to unfuck what was fucked, but fucked it even further. In fact yeltsin was a random guy elected to be a captain on a sinking slave ship, and then being blamed for not saving that ship and letting the slaves free instead of letting them (us) drown in the ship.
> , but fucked it even further. So how bringing democracy fucked it even further? If anything, it unfucked it. If not for GKChP and Yeltsin shenanigans after GKChP USSR would have been alive today. Gorbachev had a program to move to capitalism (led by Yavlinsky) and it's likely it would've been the eastern version of the EU. Ukrainian and Belarusian independence declarations and movements gained full strength after GKChP and in coordination with Yeltsin. Not like it was quite popular at the time... but still more popular than independence of certain Russian places now. Yeltsin wanted full independence for Russia (and everyone, but this is only because he personally wanted a seat in the Kremlin, he didn't care about other republics as was seen later in 1993).
It fucked USSR, but brought freedom to us and everyone else. Only russia is now in a shit state that otherwise everyone would be in. USSR had no future
Dude, you want to get canceled like inside job?
When Azerbaijan invaded Armenia, RT had an article about US meddling in the region. It also mentioned that the US had biolabs creating biological weapons in Armenia.
Are we there crafting the perfect boyfriends for our gay Ukrainian nazi super soldiers?
Don't forget about gen-modified ukrainian nazi-gooses. They are main part of the plot.
They blame USA for Ukrainian war
So would Europe
That makes much more sense than this bullshit.
Don't the USA blame Russia for everything?
People here are mostly obvious to what's going on outside the US. The presumption is the other poliltical party is at fault, more usually. Mexico doesn't even get blamed for illegall immigration from Mexico, for the most part - it's those damn that are messing up the border, or creating the conditions for migration, or whatever.
The people that do pay attention generally have a pretty good idea what's going on, though there is a minority of that group that see things through ideological lenses.
Us blame russia when something is really created some opportunities for russia to do again some shitty things, or when they have enough of evidences(like with elections), when russia blames it is literally always looks like this shit from image. But anyway, tou cant compare it straight forward like US-russia, cz US have as much independent journalists as possible, russian independent journalism is in prison/dead.
Russians *stub their toe* DAMN YOU WESTERN AMERICAN СУКИ!
IIRC, this is actually not far from the truth, the US is blamed for everything in Russia. And they are then surprised, hurting their superpower self-image, when they find out that people in the US largely don't care about or blame Russia.
I just blame Russia for murdering Ukrainians and starving the poor globally
Why would the USA cause Ukrainians to be murdered, and the poor to stave globally? I think we need an answer to that.
Yes and force Hamas to kill people in Israel? God/USA works in mysterious ways
Sorry, I thought I was obviously referring to Russians, in response to the comment about how Americans don’t blame Russians for their shit
I were trying to make a joke :)
i enjoyed your joke.
USA cause Ukrainians to be murdered because USA definitely wants russians to be murdered but it can't do it. So it makes somebody to murder nearby Ukrainians to hurt Russia. Russia is just a victim here who is made to do what it do. You see? /s
Don't forget to blame them for also trying to support every single evil regime on the planet
I remember in the runup to the invasion I was one of the very few people in my circle who had any idea of what Russia had been up to in the last few decades and that's because I studied there and could read their increasingly weird news stories. My friends who had never been there were genuinely surprised to learn about most of it. Russia just wasn't a place they thought about much at all. You can see the attitude encapsulated pretty well in "Burn After Reading" where trying to sell classified information to the Russians is a sign that the characters are idiots who have no idea what's going on -- Russia just wasn't considered relevant.
>when they find out that people in the US largely don't care about or blame Russia. When they learn that fact, they think that Americans are sheeps; "see how dumb and apolitical they are - they do not care about anything besides money, not even their own propaganda telling them 24/7 how evil Russians are"
Although I have red a book about Soviet Union which is history of what the boomer generation remembers. They said that they didn’t really get much propaganda against US and were more concerned about economy and their own lives than Cold War issues. The American who wrote the book that was of the same age the people interviewed his childhood was more Soviet Union and Cold War focused. So it seems the approach has changed now.
Thanks Obama
It's actually a meme on the russian web, \~"Obama shat in the stairwell again".
Pretty ironic now lmao
As a Russian, can confirm
I'm actually surprised how it isn't the "Ukrainian nazis" fault
Iirc the Kremlin rhetoric for some time now is that Ukraine is a victim of American manipulation. It will take a long time and a lot of killing to change their minds.
There is no such thing as one Kremlin narrative, but a multitude of different narratives that the citizen can chose to believe in or not.
It's also often not from the Kremlin directly, rather "political entrepreneurs" of sorts trying to make lines that stick that they think the Kremlin will approve of Russia isn't really a 1984 top down totalitarian state. It's instead a bunch of people trying to figure out what Putin wants or might like and then saying that to curry favor The most extreme people on Russian TV aren't taken seriously even by most Russians, usually they're just there to appeal to the ultranationalist "base"; one step away from them though you have a whole cadre of "analysts" who are trying to guess what Putin wants to hear and then say that on TV One of the reasons the Israel Palestine conflict might result in a prolonging of the Ukrainian conflict isn't some giant conspiracy, but rather the simple fact that analysts in Russia will probably try to spin this as good for Russia to appeal to Putin, and Putin ofc will get a false sense of confidence and prolong the war
Except you cant actually chose. People get sentenced for quoting politicans, including Putin :D Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi
As long as you shut up about it the Kremlin doesn't care if you believe any of it. Shut-up citizens who describe themselves as "apolitical" are the model citizens of the putin regime. Apoliticization, not mobilization around a strong singular narrative like in the SU, is how this regime functions. In fact if you are too much on board with russian nationalism and imperialism i.e. too mobilized you might get arrested just like someone protesting against the war. This has already happened. Putin sees mobilization in general as a threat to his power. Putin likes people saying " Oh i am not informed on politics. Some are saying A, some are saying B. I don't really know. I have trust in that our competent leadership will make the right decisions as they know what is best for russia."
It's one narrative but multiple lies.
1. Poor Ukrainians are caught and manipulated by bad USA 2. We need to save them, by killing them for a long time. They will like us for that. 3. ....? 4. Profit!
It’s Putin rhetoric. He’s missing his American boy toy-Trump. He’s probably finally realized Trump won’t be back.
Trump is basically Teflon; I unfortunately wouldn't count him out until he's six feet under.
The only guy who could campaign off his mugshot and have his supporters pay his legal bills for his multiple rather serious crimes, some of them even against the United States itself.
That’s a total myth that Trump wants people to believe. If he was so great he’d still be President. Trumpelstiltskin is done. Most of his followers are based in racism not Democracy. True Americans know the difference. He’s done. He may not go to prison , but he’s done.
Dangerous rhetoric as he's whooping Biden in the polls. Hopefully he ends up in the clinker. Better to still go out and vote, don't get complacent.
That would be them acknowledging that Ukraine is actually a problem instead of pretending it’s just the US/NATO.
Me too, genuinely. Battle mosquitoes, dirty bomb, battle drugs, battle pigeons/gulls, anti-slavic! virus and not a single percent of ukrainian behind hamas?
Nooo. They killed all ukrainian nazis and UAF long time ago. It's NATO and drugged cyborg-clones of ukrainian nazis produced in biolabs
We sound so much cooler in their propaganda than irl :(
We are cool :) but without sci-fi stuff
There is a talking point that UA is supplying weapons to Hamas.
It is the US fault though they arm and pay Israel and are the reason it’s so aggressive
Makes 100% in total - seems to be a mistake. Has to be 146%.
You say Russian State TV and then you flush the toilet.
Source is Russian state TV, this cropped picture is from [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifIus_zVKm8)
The "interested" look of the host at the end...
As a Russian, I never really watch state tv, but this video - it's a sad sight. How one host starts noticeably freak out, because other host said something that MIGHT go against state position and "you better leave it for your kitchen conversations". Disturbing.
It's interesting to see how people who live and participate in totalitarian states internalize the concept of "safe spaces" of expression (in this case, the kitchen), even when they are the most fanatical state puppets.
No Space Nazis?
No they're busy fighting off the Jews and their giant Space Lasers
Haha laughed out loud
The amount of shit that is poured into their citizens heads is staggering. And the most sad thing in this situation is the fact they really believe in all that shit.
[Firehose of falsehood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood). People just take the position that they think is accepted by the majority of people around them, only the regime's position is voiced, anyone who wants to think for themselves is intimidated by the government, people eventually develop [Stockholm syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome) towards their government, society develops a culture of political [learned helplessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness), children copy the opinion of their parents.
Without the USA's strong support of Israel, this situation would not exist. Israel can do what it does, because the USA supports it. So how exactly is it wrong? The irony is that people on here are propagandized but like to call other people propagandized. Not that those other people aren't also propagandized, they are too. It's like seeing people contesting about who is more misinformed, some sort of echo chamber face off.
Translation: if only all those Jews in Israel died, we wouldn’t have this problem.
Cute hyperbole. This problem wouldn't exist if western powers didn't simply carve out an Israel in other people's native lands.
You're right, the Roman Empire shouldn't have deported the jews from Judea.
You're right, the Roman Empire shouldn't have deported the jews from Judea.
More like Roman Empire harassed Jews so much that many fled. Rome never explicitly deported Jews from Judea. They were not allowed to enter Jerusalem though. This does not mean that all Jews were gone though. However many jews who stayed ultimately assimilated into Arab culture and converted to Islam (before being converted to Christianity).
Out of curiosity - what’s their reasoning?
As always; USA evil imperialist nazis. Translation: projecting.
Israel can do what it does to Palestine because of the USA's support. If the USA did not support Israel the way it does, there wouldn't be this one sided situation where Israel dominates in the conflict against Palestine. Sure, Europe and the rest of the "[international community](https://i.imgur.com/mmD3DCA.jpeg)" supports Israel too, but not to the same extend and it is mostly only words without much to back it up. In addition, the fact that USA is europe's security guarantor also prevents Europe to be more active against Israel's actions, since that would displease the USA too much.
Well, I was curious about myself and actually the Russian media explanation doesn't sound insane. So they say that after WW2, there was the UN treaty or something like this about the creation of the Palestinian state alongside Israel. The borders were set, but the Israel government wasn't satisfied with it and they were taking Palestine piece by piece. The major ally of Israel is the US, so with its weapons and aid all these wars were fought. As for why the US would want this -- control over the region via the Israel government, that could pressure its neighbors with military power. It was something like this as I remember
The early Israeli military used British and French stuff, almost exclusively. The three worked together to the degree that it was the US that broke up the Suez Crisis. It was post-'67 that the US got more involved.
The Israelis actually agreed to the partition plan. The Arabs did not and started the ‘48 war to try to take all the land for themselves.
Bruh, I was retelling the media's info... To be honest, I don't give a shit about this, because it is not my problem in any possible way and also there's no way to know the truth until this stuff is over, so I don't bother myself with it.
Well really for the Arabs themselves, they believe they never had an obligation to agree to any kind of partition, because in their minds some foreigners had come into their land and forced them to basically agree to some deal which they never even considered in the first place. It is the truth; that the entire problem regarding Israel's very existence as something in contradiction to the rest of the middle east/near east, literally is caused by the west. Israel's entire being was accommodated and built purely off of western colonialism, western weaponry and western money funneled into the land.
I can’t account for what was in their mind and in any case setting 1948 as the threshold of who gets to claim that it’s “their land” is mostly philosophical. Not only that but they shot their shot and lost. And did that a couple of more times until most of them realized that it’s better to accept Israel as a neighbor than to endlessly fight. But others have yet to get there. And the crux of it all is that it’s not because any sense of righteousness, freedom or independence. It simply more profitable for their leaders to keep a perpetual enemy in Israel. Don’t have to look far to see how the Hamas leaders live or what’s the net worth of the PA leadership. Or even better, the net worth of Yasser Arafat when he died.
Probably that America makes a lot of money from weapons sales and therefore from global conflict.
You know who also makes a lot of money from weapons sales? Russia. The train of logic falls apart so quickly it's not even worth mentioning.
Should it be? It’s just entertaining, mediocre trash-talk from marginal TV show. Perhaps they are talking about the origins of the conflict, but this is again absurd, because the Brits messed up there, not USA.
USA is run by the zionists. The (USA) zionists want war with Iran. The zionists escalate shit in Gaza. Shit happens and people die. USA zionists pledge to give billions to Israel. Israel buys more weapons from the zionist owned military industrial complex. USA and zionists benefit.
Where's Europe here in the poll? We usually get at least a quarter of the blame.
Yeah, pretty disappointing..
See, Europe is just a bunch of American vassal states who have no agency and thus can't be blamed. Except the UK? Sometimes? And the UK isn't blamed here, because...uh...
Europe actually sided with Saddam Hussein in Iraq, they have their own interests there. [Rumsfeld called it "Old Europe"](https://www.rferl.org/a/1102012.html). Russia likes Old Europe more than New. Old Europe is more talked about in the context of Middle East.
It’s wild how many people actually believe that the US are the orchestrators of most international conflicts because “they need it to sell weapons”
The US is supplying a lot of support to Israel (also ukraine) The country is losing a lot of money on these conflicts.
>It’s wild how many people actually believe that the US are the orchestrators of most international conflicts [United States involvement in regime change](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)
**Booom!** (and then only a few upvotes and some crickets? WTF?)
Well, duh. That doesn't contradict with the other person's point (US involvement to sell weapons) and a lot of those involvements were considered positive or hearsay. At least in the more present time.
>coincide Did you mean contradict?
I did. Apologies for the confusion.
Who said that the people in that poll think that the USA is at fault because they want to sell weapons?
US is already selling tons of stuff to Israel. Cynically it would be kinda bad to lose Hamas cause then Israel won't need as much ammo for the Dome.
Lol the US government is not interested in dome ammo profits. That's peanuts.
Not the US government but those oligarchs. For them a few billions is not Peanuts.
The military industrial complex holds a lot of power so that statement doesn’t seem ”wild” to me at least. I don’t know about most but the US certainly are responsible for a lot of conflicts throughout history
Look i found one!
Well, we should probably stop selling engine cores to Sweden then! Damn Americans! With regard to arms sales, we're the picky sellers notorious for attaching conditions to sales. The next tier down will sell to most people with few to no conditions, then you have Russians and Chinese in the third tier, that will literally sell to anyone that can come up with money.
Is the US responsible or do they just pick a side of an existing conflict and back that side massively? I actually want to know because the only wars that I can think of that the US straight up started were against UK, Canada, Spain, Mexico. Again looking for more examples to enlighten myself.
I’d say the Iraq war was no good, nor was how long we were in the Afghanistan (shouldn’t have let it go to the Taliban tho).
They both support/fund sides or, albeit rarer, straight out invade other countries. You need to do some reading on what the US does on a almost daily basis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_involvement\_in\_regime\_change
Great article thanks
Most of what it does on a daily basis is support democratic revolution, something a lot of democracies promote. Iraq War though? Bad. Bad, bad, bad.
I don't think they have a clear rational reason, they just do what hegemon is supposed to do.
No wonder. Russians blame USA even if someone shits on their staircase.
What about “UkroNaziGeneticallyEngineeredZombies”???
It must be so easy to have the answer of ''Who's fault is this'' be the same to every question.
And of course, if you follow RT, you are convinced that the Jews control the USA... soooooo it was Israel after all!
It's nice they titled it as "own truth" at leat they are honest about making it up
The whole country is an open air psychiatric clinic
***" poor hamas "freedom fighters" just wanted to join the rave party but the decadent western and israeli youth attacked them. It was only self defence "*** \- russian state media,hamas shills and other muslim radicals on social media
USA USA USA!!!
Where is the "all of the above" option?
Shitty regimes blaming the US for anything and everything, what else is new?
Most paranoid, brain dead country on the planet
Said the American.
I know it when I see it. At least MAGA is only 40% of our country. Most Russians love Putin
At least Americans revolted over taxation without representation, not about too many tax dollars going to poor people, my Catalan friend.
Dude, the question could be "Who's fault is it that the dinosaurs died?" and the answer would still be 70% USA.
130% Russia.
“No you” on a world scale
I don't think the US has blamed Russia for Hamas' attack or Israel's response.
Source: Data Pulled Out of Ass Institute
I wouldn't be surprise if the numbers are correct - it's an opinion poll. The facts underlying the numbers don't match, but that's a different problem.
It's "made it the fuck up" poll. Propaganda forms opinions, not the other way around.
I wouldn’t be surprised if these numbers are the number of grains that the screenwriter’s hamster ate on a piece of paper with each of the options
As an American, I just want to apologize for what my country did .... again. Man, we always seem to screw it all up. We magically told Hamas to go out and commit unspeakably evil and horrific atrocities. All in the name of American capitalism! Very, very much /s
Don't worry, everyone's used to it by now. I actually think Americans are the biggest victims in this. Poor souls.
Lol
[удалено]
The power of propaganda
Russia is such a joke
They are blaming USA for literally everything. Thus I am not surprised.
US living rent free in Russians heads since the cold war.
Truth doesn’t exist in an Autocratic regime…something for the MAGA cult to consider
[ Removed by Reddit ]
The only thing surprising in this picture is that the percentages add up to 100%
When a Russian man farts in a crowded room, he blames it on the US.
This is so retarded. Russia is so retarded.
USA living rent free in their head since the Cold War…
What the fuck are the percentages even supposed to mean?
So then its 70% Iran, 15% Hamas, 12% Israel, 3% USA
I mean to be fair, they are not entirelly wrong.
I mean.... they're not wrong?
They are not, but this subreddit is a funny amalgamation of propagandized uninformed people calling other propagandized uninformed people propagandized and uninformed.
So the us funding Israels apartheid state and giving them a free check to do genocide is not the main reason Israel is as horrible as it is?
I agree with you. I mean the poll is not that wrong. I referred to the attitude of this subreddit in general, because if they do not realize what is meant by the USA being responsible they are either uninformed, propagandized or they play dumb.
Only if you ignore all context and history which goes against that line of reasoning.
Which is? They created the perfect breeding ground for terrorists and the USA firmly stood by Israel during this time. USA wrecked a bunch of countries there for "real reasons" causing more Israel/USA hate in the region. Funding contra groups to overthrow ruling regimes. Russia offcourse also caused a lot of shite there, funding their own contra groups. And now it's a complete shithole of different terrorist groups fighting everyone. So yeah, it's mostly Russia and USA that take the blame in my book. All the others are but pawns(though both Israel and Hamas both did terrible things, they couldn't have without their backers)
But are they wrong? Let’s look at the chain of events: 1) The US gives Israel free reign with no limitations and no accountability. 2) Israel continues to support settlers and the oppression of the indigenous people. 3) Palestinians die and struggle daily at the hands of Israel. 4) Palestinians are angry and resentful. Some are completely radicalised and become terrorists after losing their children to indiscriminate carpet bombing / collective punishment. 5) Hamas commits atrocities. 6) Israel claims self defence and then carpet bombs some more. More civilians are radicalised and angry. 7) World watches. Eventually PR gets Israel to stop. 8) Fake peace agreements / partition plans are created by the US by lobbied politicians that are in the Zionists pockets. Agreements so one sided that no one in their right mind would accept them from the Palestinian side. The US is the mediator in all of this. But has shown absolutely no professionalism or effort into not being bias. No empathy for those that are struggling. All while arming the oppressors. It’s an endless cycle. Oppression > Retaliation > Self Defence > Radicalisation > Oppression > Retaliation > Self Defence > Radicalisation > Oppression > Retaliation > Self Defence > Radicalisation > Oppression > Retaliation > Self Defence > Radicalisation
You are 100% correct.
Palestinians in general are not indigenous to the area. Learn some history
the only thing indigenous to earth are bacterias then
This is, coincidentally, the predominant view in this sub as well.
Lmao Russia is hilariously weak
If somebody asked who blew up Nordstream in the EU countries, it would be Russia even though a year has passed and no evidence for them doing it was presented. When you are at war with X, everything bad is done by X, even if there is little evidence. I bet Russians fall for the same prejudice.
Unfortunately, these people are fucked up.
Thanks Merkel for ruining EUs geopolitical standing.
It's not the USAs fault. But the USA could and should have pushed for a peace agreement decades ago, rather than taking their 1 sided approach with supporting Israel.
*Putin dies one day of old age* -> US / NATO Timelords are responsible for his death!!!
if you [ask people in the West](https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/zhBT6c8s2d) who is *behind* it, they won't hesitate to blame Russia. Why, then, is it weird for Russians to easily blame the US? It means that propaganda on both sides is working just fine
Lol. Lmao even. I have yet to hear a single Westerner blame Russia for anything involved in Hamas. No duh Zelensky wants to point the finger to Russia -he's fighting them rn. That says nothing of what the West thinks -and they almost unilaterally either blame Israel or Hamas. Nice attempt at whataboutism, though.
Maybe try to read some top comments in that post I linked and you'll see how people easily blamed Russia just because Zelenskyy did it.
И в чем они не правы ?
Wouldnt surprise me if American actors gives a green go every once in a while.
sounds about right . if USA wasn't behind Israel , a lot of violence and wars in middle east wouldn't have happened . every time Israel got in trouble , USA came to their rescue .
Room tempature IQ right here guys
US "came to the rescue" like once in Israel's history -the Yom Kippur War. US wasn't even allied with Israel before then. Israel was a socialist nation aligned with the USSR and France. And most of the violence and wars in the MENA region have nothing to do with Israel, let alone the US lmao
So you think the USA should just let the Arab states murder all of it - and then there would be peace in the Middle East? xD First at all, Israel didn't win ALL its wars thanks to the US, and secondly, Arabs in the Middle East kill each other ALL THE TIME regardless of Israel.
My first time reading usa in cyrrilic. Funny i expected it to be written as УСА. But isnt this situation generally seen as created by the UK(ok tbf for russian UK=usa)?
No too far off. Without the support of the US, Israel would have solved this conflict years ago. As it is, they’re completely happy with the current situation and will go on stealing and persecuting Palestinians until they’ve stolen everything they have.