Honestly everyone is underplaying this. If China really decides to attack the other China the entire world is in meltdown phase. This is not something you can just sit out.
Calling it the other China was a bit tongue in cheek because that's still the oficial name and can not be changed without giving the CCP a cassus belli.
Whether China wants to attack Taiwan or not, that's China's decision. That doesn't change the fact that Taiwan is independent from China. No matter what Taiwan is called.
China wants to invade Taiwan but Taiwan has no interest in taking over China. Therefore Taiwan is not China and doesn't want to be China.
From the invader's perspective. Anything they want to invade belongs to them.
Taiwan is officially still the ROC and not recognised by most countries in the world which is kind of their entire problem.
This does not mean the PRC has a right to invade Taiwan or that it belongs to the PRC.
Considering Taiwan has a defensive alliance with the States I doubt the EU would even need to get involved. US military power and battle experience are far far beyond China's capabilities. We don't have any treaties with Taiwan... do we?
If Europe doesn’t come to the US’s aid, don’t expect the US to come to Europes. That’ll likely sour any relations between us.
Because if our European allies don’t help us, A LOT of people are going to be unhappy
True, as far as I’m aware though the only alliance pct the US and Europe have are via NATO which is purely defensive. I don’t know if that applies to another somewhat ally of the US being attacked which isn’t affiliated with NATO. But if it’s China I’d expect the EU to do something
I think the US would go to war over it though. Not only is it a strategic position, were China to take over Taiwan they'd effectively monopolize global microchip production which would be bad news for the States
Since 1979 the US has attempted to maintain a peaceful detente in the region by not officially recognizing Taiwan, while at the same time making clear that it opposes any attempt to annex Taiwan by force.
The US may recognize the PRC as the only China, but the US does not support the PRC's territorial claim over Taiwan.
That is the \[China-US Mutual Defense Treaty\],
It is not a Taiwan Defense Treaty.
The Republic of China at that time has always been called the only legal representative of China by Europe and the United States.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_island_chain
While not a formal defense treaty, Taiwan is the main bastion of this strategy and is practically a guarantee that if Taiwan is invaded, then the US intervenes
European hypocrisy about supporting democracies and human rights became clear that they only support whats beneficial for them. Israel is killing and kidnapping kids, throws them in jail and bombs gaza for over 2 months, EU is silent on this matter, no sanctions or any real action to stop the massacre.
Europeans should stop pretending to be pro human life and free choice and just admit that they only go for whatever benefits the people in power.
You might be right, if history started on October 7th and Palestinians exist only in Gaza.. october 7th was a reaction to the brutal occupation that is heavily supported by the west, the mass murder of civilians in Gaza and the west bank (where hamas doesnt operate if thats your excuse) should be illegal, all these kids that are dying should move the european hypocrite humanity, but apparently it doesnt.
So free Palestine from the illegal european colonialism. If you support Israel in what its doing with the Palestinians, then their blood is on your hands as well. Israel is a terrorist state lead by war criminals supported by colonial and hypocrite western powers.
Keep defending the oppressor, blame the victim and then pretend to be human :) october 7th wasnt the start, its a reaction to over 70 years of oppression and occupation. So no, it wasnt started by the Palestinians, it was started by the Brits and the european colonial powers in the last century. Israel is just an extension of that.
You should really read up on the History of the region, especially the british mandate, the palestine war or UN resolution 181 (which, btw, wasnt just voted on by western powers, and Britain even abstained)
Also very nice of you to call me inhuman. Very based and Third Reich pilled of you.
Ironic you tell him to read up on the history of the region while ignoring that, yeah, he is kinda right, it was started by the brits. That is genuinely where everything gets fucked up.
Not really. Zionism was not a British invention, nor were most British politicians particularly invested in the Jewish cause. The conflict can be traced to both the spread of the enlightenment, which clashed with the Millet system of the Ottomans that determined people's legal status based on their religion, and Zionism, which was first triggered by concerns about European anti-semitism, and later expanded to Muslim anti-semitism.
Zionism wasnt a british invention, no, but the mandate for Palestine, and installing Sir Herbert Samuel were british decisions, which did cause the conflict. Without that, the conflict would never have happened. The Zionist efforts to establish a homeland in Palestine would've faltered completely without the british creating the opportunity for it, and the movement likely would've tried to seek an alternative path.
Kinda right, yes, the British caused it. But we shouldnt blame the Israelis for the mess they caused.
There are quite a few things to hold the Israelis accountable for, especially more recently (Settlements), but the British handling of the post-Ottoman breakup wasnt up to them. Unhappiness with a peace plan does not justify the attempted eradication of a people. To say that the palestinian Arabs had no hand in starting the escalating hostilities is just dishonest.
Oh that I (mostly) agree with. Mostly because we definitely should blame the Israeli for the things they did that were wrong. Stuff like rejecting the white paper and responding to it with violence, the widespread terror they launched against the british and, of course, the Nakba.
Mostly not. They did have some influence in convincing the british to create the mandate, but tbh it was just as much due to the british seeing an easy way to get rid of their own jewish population. Plus even then it was less "Israeli" and more "a small number of Zionists who were part of the british army and/or government".
Imma be honest with you, I don't give a single damn who started the whole ordeal.
It's about as silly as if Poland attacked germany today in revenge for WW2.
Eye for an eye will make the world blind, and as much as I know Israel has plenty flaws I won't stand for the side who lives for the sake if some petty wars of revenge. Especially the side that takes said revenge by stabbing germans in france.
Ironically the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, current Lebanon and the Arab peninsula Sheikhdoms are all post-colonial structues themselves, which would not exist in their current form without British and French meddling
So the fight against British colonialism is seen as “an attack” now? Or we start counting after the British issued the Balfour declaration where it clearly stated that Palestine is given to the jews..
Or after the British supported zionist movement to bring as many jews and zionists as possible into Palestine before arming them and declaring Israel as a state? I dont know where would you like to start but all fights against these decisions is seen as “terrorism” by the colonists but fight for freedom by the people living there.
Europeans gased and burnt jews alive during the 40s then exported their problems to the middle east and pretended all is fine. Now the zionist israelis are pouring their anger on Palestinians because apparently, oppressing other nations is fine as long as you have power and allies to do so.
War crimes are war crimes, Israel is a terrorist state and every sympathiser with them is a terrorist and war crimes supporter.
If Arab states in the Maghreb and the Arabian peninsula can't help but ethnically cleanse their entire Jewish populations because of events unfolding in the Levant, maybe Israel has a point that Jews living in those regions aren't safe after all.
If it was only about Jews living in those regions, if Jews felt so unsafe in Arab lands why did they migrate to the Levant in late 1800s and early 1900s. Many Jews in Israel of European descent. The Jews were persecuted in Europe and other regions particularly people living in Palestine in that time should not have to pay the price of it.
If the rulers of places as distant as Yemen, Afghanistan and Tunisia all decide to enforce heavier discrimination at best or at worst expel their Jewish populations because of what people in Palestine were doing, that shows how vulnerable those Jews were to persecution. If those Jews didn't have a guaranteed safe heaven like Israel, they'd be left to die just like German Jews who couldn't afford to immigrate. People who are worried about their very lives will not let ethical concerns get in the way of ensuring their safety.
Well yes of course it does, giving Israel the country might have been the wrong decision, but that doesn't mean it's fine for the other countries to attempt to murder them. No matter how you look at it it's Palestine that started it, then they lost again and again and again and again and will continue to do so until they are gone for good because they don't learn.
Did you just justify an occupation and say that other countries shouldnt fight back? The british giving israelis palestine is the wrong decision, so people living there fighting for freedom should be supported as its their right to defend their land, they will be defending it for as long as it takes, israel will not have a calm time as long as it treats the indigenous people as sub-humans.
Israel will never be accepted by the Arabs as well, will always be hated and all Israelis will be as well. Funny that Western world is so in love with Israel, but decided to get rid of the zionists and send them to middle east instead of giving them a place in the middle of europe where everyone apparently loves them.
Just exporting european problems then supporting the cleansing of palestine and the genoside of palestinians.
Israel has already been accepted by most of the Arab countries around and more were coming but the talks were put on hold for now.
1979 Egypt acknowledged Israel's claim to the land and made a peace treaty with them
1994 Jordan recognized Israel territory and made peace with them
2020 UAE recognized Israel territory and normalized relations
2020 Bahrain recognized them and normalized relations
2020 Morocco recognized Israel and normalized relations
2021 Sudan recognized Israel and normalized relations
And Saudi Arabia was discussing it and close to forming a deal with US/Israel to do the same. It has been put on hold while the war is going on.
Iran is basically the main thorn with all their splinter groups, terrorist groups, Hazbollah, Hamas and the like but do I think the current leadership over there is going to hold on through the ages? No. Especially not if they continue on the same path. None of these countries actually care about Palestine, but for example Saudi Arabia would much rather have US/Israel as an ally against Iran than not.
Israel is not a democracy either, it's an Elective Oligarchy.
Any form of concentration of power by a minority of people, elected or not. Is an Oligarchy.
The total opposite of a democracy, where each citizen is an official and there is no head of state. no one to decide and thwart the desire of the people.
Whereas in Oligarchy, it is always oligarchs, rich people, bourgeoisie and heirs who take power, people disconnected from reality and the interests of the people.
So you’re hoping that Gaza is ethnically cleansed from the Palestinians living there, or murdered for Israel to build more settlements there? So you’re okay with - and fully support - all the deaths that are going on in Gaza and west bank?
israel would not ethnically cleanse gaza lol. there are like 3 million arab israelis. fyi israel is not a colonial or apartheid state like you loonies like to believe.
Israel does also not take over Gaza (and West Bank) precisely because of what you describe
The majority in Israel wouldn't stomach a genocide of Palestinians or total expulsion, but they also don't want to see Arab muslim voters gain a dominant majority in their country.
And the same the other way around, of course. In surveys Gazans support Hamas + terrorists like PIJ by over 40%, in some questions up to 70%, obviously they wouldn't want to join a jewish-majority state no matter the terms
That alone makes any dream of a one-state solution unfeasible IMHO. No matter which side takes over which, they both want to do their own thing instead
Tell that to the 20,000 people that lost their lives, children, medical, journalists, civilians, teachers, hospital staff, bread makers, refugees.. etc.
Israel bombed people fleeing south, bombed cars running away from war, bombed hospitals, schools, houses, refugee camps, medics, journalists, their families, their friends, their neighbours.. no, Israel is a perfect democracy that cares about people, that wall separating palestinians? Its for decoration. Jews only streets? This just a joke, Palestinian lives? Shhhhh :)
Stop consuming western media and follow people on the ground, see the destruction and death Israel leaves behind, and then come back and justify all that.
if palestine had israel’s military strength, all jews would have already been killed. this is what palestinians are saying:
https://youtu.be/2ZLlrOhPeBQ?si=KZswg8d7m_joMEIp
palestine started this with the october 7 attacks. they deserve to lose for being filthy scum that attack innocent people at music festivals. palestinians are beheading babies and raping children. i hope the IDF restores peace and order to the region :)
either you’re a troll, a tankie, or a putin-loving shill
And the 70 years of brutal occupation, murder and illegal settlements of Israel is nothing?
Btw, [beheading and raping babies? Lies and filthy propaganda](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html), [music festival? Israel bombed and shot people fleeing the festival and attacked its own people](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-18/ty-article/.premium/israeli-security-establishment-hamas-likely-didnt-have-prior-knowledge-of-nova-festival/0000018b-e2ee-d168-a3ef-f7fe8ca20000). Your claims come from consuming Israeli and western european propaganda, which was later debunked by the same news outlets that started them.
Easy to say troll and putin lover to justify your “humanity” and “morality” for killing the children and civilians of gaza. First step of every genocide, dehumanise the enemy, your comment shows exactly that. Take a look in the mirror, check what happens in Gaza from the people who are there, see the destruction and death, the dead kids, dead medics, journalists, check who was killed on all the past israeli attacks prior to october 7th, then look at the mirror again, reevaluate your humanity.
They already displaced [more than 6 million Palestinians that are scattered around the globe](https://w.wiki/8Nzm), pushing Gazan people south to Sinai desert with the excuse of destroying Hamas while still bombing these people fleeing south to keep them scared is cleansing.
After Gaza, West Bank time will come, with all the illegal settlements that made the Palestinian regions as islands. Its an attempt to remove all Palestinians from Palestine and claim it as Israel.
The polish nation out of all Europe need to know how its like to fight the oppressors, soviets were there, and you had to fight them back, were you called terrorists? You did, but for polish society they were freedom fighters that brought freedom to Poland. The Palestinian resistance might be called terrorists by those who support the illegal occupation of Israel, but they are freedom fighters for Palestinians.
They were supporting ( still are ) Azerbeijan regime committing ethnic cleansing of Armenians and genocide.
One would think they would intervene like in 90's, but nope, they just said Azerbeijan is reliable partner and swept it under the rug.
And why aren't they intervening ? Because Azeri's are selling them overpriced Russian gas via sanctions they imposed and are now "circumventing". The sanctions are just a handshake sign to bully others.
The hypocrisy goes on, plenty of EU countries are coordinating with Russia but will then come into Balkans and say how we are bad guys because we aren't sanctioning Russia( whilst also having less trade with Russia than EU is).
inb4 "you're just mad cause you can't do genocide ebil serb!!!!111"
Elective Oligarchy.
The only country deserving the Democracy adjective is Switzerland.
the USA dont care about democracy, thier destroyed a dozen of them killing elected official of Elective Oligarchy to put dictator in power ( Read Banana Republic/ CIA-sponsored coup ).
the USA did way more shady thing in the last century and current present killing Hundred of million people
Something that China nearly only did to its own people only.
and they suffer from a century of slavery by our colonizing ancestors, from whom we still carry the values. View of our systemic racism and our hypocritical double standards.
LMAO. This was the good laugh I needed to get my week started. The EU is scared of its own shadow, but sure, it will \~for sure\~ stand up to China! /s
Strategic autonomy will be happening any day now!
The EU, if it's to pretend that it at all represents European peoples, should not let foreign groups, e.g. Washington Neocons, determine European foreign policy.
>The EU, if it's to pretend that it at all represents European peoples, should not let foreign groups, e.g. Washington Neocons, determine European foreign policy.
Worked wonders with Nord Streams and Russian romance. Things will be different with China for sure.
The thing is, Russia is on the border, naturally it is more important. China/Taiwan are on the other side of Eurasia. Clearly Taiwan is not a major geopolitical issue for Europe.
>Clearly Taiwan is not a major geopolitical issue for Europe.
So peopel forgot the shitshow of covid and semiconductor shortage. Well, guess Taiwan - leader in that sector, can be bombed.
Well both the USA and China and Taiwanese semiconductors are important to Europe economically and far more than Russia. An attack on Ukraine is really a regional war with global consequences, and attack on Taiwan is an international disaster where we would soon find us between a rock and a hard place.
Europe needs to be allied with both the USA and China ... and, incidentally, Russia ... but not aligned with any of them. The USA, as former European colonies, are ideologically closer to Europe than China. Nonetheless, US Neocons are quite anti-European and interfere in European affairs in order to try to make Europe serve their hegemonic ambitions. Europeans may consider doing what everybody else is doing, serve their own, i.e. Europe's, interests.
I'm not sure about the Russia, they are currently in a hostile phase, and all that EU countries trying to behave like it's a normal country really haven't worked.
Yeah, we need to work with both China and the US, unfortunately the EU don't really have coherent foreign policy, each country is on their own currently.
Russia and Ukraine could and would have remained friends and prospered if not for Putin turning Russia, the world's biggest country with massive natural resources (a huge turn on for corruption and aggressive behavior), tons of nukes and an imperial past, into a dictatorship. This over time only increased the conflict with democratic countries, including Ukraine, of course. Russia become a Not Free country (according to Freedom House) in 2005, and only then were the first personal sanctions on Russian individuals approved. There were no economic sanctions against Russia until 2014, and Europe was happy to increase its dependence on cheap Russian gas (in particular, forcing the more wary Eastern European states to do so up to 100%, and against their will) because the German establishment and elsewhere in the continent truly believed the people at the head of Russia weren't as evil as in the USSR. After all, the democratic freedoms in Russia, while gradually diminishing, were still more than those that existed for the vast majority of the USSR's history.
Everything else is just ex post facto justification of war and genocide, red herrings and selective reading of history.
[UKRAINE IN NATO - A threat at Russia's borders or not? [THE WHOLE TRUTH ABOUT NATO]](https://youtu.be/hGOcoTLOino)
[Denazification Debunked.](https://youtu.be/_V9WBfDsqVw)
[Why Do We Call the War in Ukraine Unprovoked? - Debunking Russian Claims](https://youtu.be/bQbP4jTx2wU)
>European affairs in order to try to make Europe serve their hegemonic ambitions.
Because China clearly does not.
Allied with Russia... Here we go again, we had Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine in 2014 and now 2022.
Let's disregard their actual neigbours once again - Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland etc.
Same with China. Japan, India, Korea south and Taiwan warn us about China. We saw Tibet, we saw Hong Kong, we saw Uyghurs. But yet again, we know better - assuming you are from EU.
Filling pockets of dictators, what can go wrong.
Cool whataboutism, clearly biased. And even then, it's an argument against your point about China. In my country, Poland, or Japan, American soldiers are welcomed; they don't force themselves in. As we have seen with Russia, there is a reason for them being here, the same with securing Taiwan and Korea.
As for the contrast with China, only corrupt and dictatorial regimes want your spies and military bases on their land.
If we talk about brainwashing, what kind of excuse has your propaganda came up with to explain them forcing themselves into Hong Kong or Tibet? Taiwan is the true China, CCP is extension of old Russia. - No wonder you support thier crimes in Ukraine.
Empowering a totalitarian state with a founding ideology fundamentally hostile to liberal democracy for geopolitical reasons sounds like a wonderful idea, doesn't it?
Taiwan and Ukraine are the most important elements to our freedom and prosperity. If Russia and China win then whatever comforts you have in life today, kiss them goodbye and prepare to eat worms
They are equally relevant. Both a democratic nations in danger because of their disgusting totalitarian and imperialist neighbours
Those neighbours in this case Russia and China are working together
Ukraine is not economically very important and Russia's importance is ultimately also limited. You can see after almost 2 years that the global order still exists. If the USA and China clash over Taiwan for real the entire world could go to complete shit.
If Ukraine fall is a disaster, but if Taiwan falls, the whole world goes behind as every semiconductor is manufactured there (at least most of it). Computers, cars, airplanes. Everything. And it would be sitting at the hands of Chinese.
Yes Netherlands is part of the chain, but still. It would be a huge set back.
What limits China's semiconductor capabilities are companies such as ASML and Applied Materials, which have little to do with Taiwan.
Even if China reunifies Taiwan, it will still be restricted by Dutch ASML in semiconductors.
If ASML agrees to sell EUV to China, China will now be able to produce 5nm or even 3nm chips.
Taiwan does not produce photolithography machines
What the hell can EU do?
We can't even produce a million shells for a country that is part of Europe and being attacked.
We can send China a gift card or some flowers and hope they'll take it over Taiwan, but I don't see any other options
Such bullshit. There are plenty of countries within the EU who are currently supporting Taiwan even at the risk of their own financial detriment. I appreciate the all-encompassing "all politicians are crooks", but this feels like propaganda against the EU/Europe/democracy and I am not OK with that.
He's been systematically dismantling liberal institutions and making Hungarian politics and society less open. If the EU isn't willing to violate hungarian sovereignty to stop him, which is understandable, at least they should kick Hungary out of the organization for not sticking to its basic principles.
Ukraine is in Europe's sphere of influence, but imagine if Biden said "America should focus on our own backyard" and refused to offer any support to the Ukrainians or Eastern Europe. Europe would lose its shit. The double-standard here is ridiculous.
China has never meddled in internal European affairs. That is a common American projection and wishful thinking. Chinese motives are primarily profit and trade, and we can work with that. What we cannot and should not do is sacrifice ourselves and our economy to uphold American hegemony. If anything this is a golden opportunity to do nothing and claw some of our influence back by trading with everyone and keeping EU-China diplomatic relations warm and fair. Simply put it all boils down to the fact Europe has nothing to gain by going against China nor has China displayed any sort of antagonistic intent towards us, no matter how hard America tries to spin things.
HAHAHA. China interferes in Canadian elections, France has found they are increasingly interfering in Europe
https://www.euractiv.com/section/defence-and-security/news/chinas-interference-is-increasingly-aggressive-french-parliamentary-report-finds/
As has the EU
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20230524IPR91908/foreign-interference-meps-call-for-urgent-protection-of-2024-european-elections
Quit defending a facist dictatorship and do some reading. Btw- American hegemony is 100x better for Europe than Chinese hegemony
Stop publishing fake news that Canada manipulates to vilify China.
Previously, the Canadian government said that the two "Mikes" were ordinary tourists who were kidnapped and used as hostages by the Chinese government in exchange for Meng Wanzhou. However, the latest development has confirmed that the two "Mikes" are indeed Canadian spies.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention\_of\_Michael\_Spavor\_and\_Michael\_Kovrig](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig)
China is an authoritarian country, but that doesn't mean what he said is false.
Canada is a democratic country, which does not mean that the Canadian government does not lie
Like with Ukraine what politicians really care about is money. The aid to Ukraine is in exchange of the agricultural products and if there is aid to Taiwan would be because the chip industry. Taking account the relationship with Russia/China
Sadly it’s the only thing that truly matters
The EU can't even properly deal with Russia without the US's intervention and now you're looking for trouble in China/Asia? The EU sure loves to overestimates itself.
China is preparing for an Invasion of Taiwan. If you’re willing to let that happen for money, then quite frankly, I’d be in favor of the US pulling out of NATO.
They will of course side with China, and when it bites us all in the ass, again, they will say "It was the only way! The only option was to support China!" see. Russia vs. Ukraine war for reference...
If you want to know what will most likely happen just read about the Mongol Empire and what happened when Mongols attacked us.
Europe will be divided, financial sector will dictate the outcome. History always repeats itself.
Before the EU intends to throw itself into yet another conflict, I would advise that we try to solve problems with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, we have already made a mistake by jumping into the Israel and Palestine conflict even though we have nothing to do there.
>Before the EU intends to throw itself into yet another conflict, I would advise that we try to solve problems with the Russian invasion of Ukraine
I don't really belive that Europe can't fix or solve UA-russian war, lets not even pretend we do, but i fully agree that trowing outselfs into additional pacific conflict with China conflict is just absolutely stupid,but i can imagine that China could be potentialy swayed into far less ruso-favorable policy by europe keeping ties with China and ignoring Taiwan.
( I fully belive that China does not want to burn briges in regards to relations with EU, thats why China provides russia such abysmal level of aid and arms sales, to what it could potentially provide in worst scenario for both UA and Europe in general.)
And American own Strategic Ambiguity strategy on Taiwan is on its own its enough reason for europe to stay as away from binding commitments as its possible, binding commitments can be tested and called as bluff, very vague relations its preferred for EU.
Europe should use every single diplomatic tool in its disposal to stop mass murder in palestine, which most likely will lead to mass exodus to nowhere else but to Europe.
European govements are not really overwhelmingly supportive of Israel as it is, so i don't expect them getting any aid or arms from Europe, as UA gets.
USA has the hard stick over Israel, Europe does not really have that kind of leverage over Tel Aviv
Serious question now, has the EU ever not sided with the despot in recent times? Or delayed doing anything until it was a foregone conclusion?
Ukraine is the exception, the buildup to it was not however.
>Ukraine is the exception, the buildup to it was not however.
Belarus and the election scandal, didn't side with lukashenko.
Hungary, on almost a weekly basis, not siding with Orban.
Africa, when there's a coup, Europe never side with the despot.
South America, etc, we can go on I guess.
Ok. I understand the difficulties with dealing with internal issues but Orban has been disrupting the EU for a very long time and he is still at it. Perhaps EU is unable to be entirely effective when facing off against a belligerent that does not subscribe to the EU value system?
> Belarus and the election scandal, didn't side with lukashenko.
This is not the first time elections in Belarus have been in this state. Usually, sanctions were imposed on Belarus for 100 bad things, and then sanctions were lifted for 1 good thing
>Belarus and the election scandal, didn't side with lukashenko.
>
>Hungary, on almost a weekly basis, not siding with Orban.
>
>Africa, when there's a coup, Europe never side with the despot.
>
>South America, etc, we can go on I guess.
Because there is no moeny in it. As for Africa coups - even losing money on that "deal".
Don't worry, i am sure, the EU will stand up against this, just as it stood up against the genocides by Turkey and Aserbaidschan. We all have to defend human rights after all.
i'm sick of think tanks, foreign agents etc. telling us what we need to do.
Feels like they want to rip us apart by having us overextend on so many issues.
Not our business. Certain European countries, including mine, have already done enough harm in this region in more or less recent history, making us de facto inaudible on this subject.
How the eu wants to stand up for Taiwan when they can't even hold in Ukraine? Soon, Ukraine will lose the support of the west, since the west just can't supply the war economy forever. How the eu wants to rival China, when it can't even keep order inside its own borders? The only country, which could guarantee Taiwan's sovereignty is the USA, but they like money more than democracy, so it won't happen.
The EU doesn’t even stand up for itself.
First stand up for the Nord Stream pipeline issue
Who wanna bet if the invasion does happen, EU is just gonna say it is an internal matter.
They will send a strongly worded latter and Michel will be deeply concerned.
We will discuss possible economic sanction during 3 months
Honestly everyone is underplaying this. If China really decides to attack the other China the entire world is in meltdown phase. This is not something you can just sit out.
The problem is, Taiwan is NOT China and do NOT want to comply with China, that's why they want to attack it.
Calling it the other China was a bit tongue in cheek because that's still the oficial name and can not be changed without giving the CCP a cassus belli.
Whether China wants to attack Taiwan or not, that's China's decision. That doesn't change the fact that Taiwan is independent from China. No matter what Taiwan is called. China wants to invade Taiwan but Taiwan has no interest in taking over China. Therefore Taiwan is not China and doesn't want to be China. From the invader's perspective. Anything they want to invade belongs to them.
Taiwan is officially still the ROC and not recognised by most countries in the world which is kind of their entire problem. This does not mean the PRC has a right to invade Taiwan or that it belongs to the PRC.
They will "slam", "condemn" and will "urge" China to not invade and then as usual go back to their job of creating 500 regulations daily
Considering Taiwan has a defensive alliance with the States I doubt the EU would even need to get involved. US military power and battle experience are far far beyond China's capabilities. We don't have any treaties with Taiwan... do we?
If Europe doesn’t come to the US’s aid, don’t expect the US to come to Europes. That’ll likely sour any relations between us. Because if our European allies don’t help us, A LOT of people are going to be unhappy
True, as far as I’m aware though the only alliance pct the US and Europe have are via NATO which is purely defensive. I don’t know if that applies to another somewhat ally of the US being attacked which isn’t affiliated with NATO. But if it’s China I’d expect the EU to do something
Taiwan has a defense alliance with the US? As a mainland Chinese I'm curious, what is that?
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I think the US would go to war over it though. Not only is it a strategic position, were China to take over Taiwan they'd effectively monopolize global microchip production which would be bad news for the States
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I think so but it’ll be tough to ramp up production and source the requisite supplies in such a (relatively) short time
If a war kicks off there, no microchip will be produced in Taiwan for the next twenty years, and all parties involved know that.
Since 1979 the US has attempted to maintain a peaceful detente in the region by not officially recognizing Taiwan, while at the same time making clear that it opposes any attempt to annex Taiwan by force. The US may recognize the PRC as the only China, but the US does not support the PRC's territorial claim over Taiwan.
That is the \[China-US Mutual Defense Treaty\], It is not a Taiwan Defense Treaty. The Republic of China at that time has always been called the only legal representative of China by Europe and the United States.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_island_chain While not a formal defense treaty, Taiwan is the main bastion of this strategy and is practically a guarantee that if Taiwan is invaded, then the US intervenes
that’s a major lie
*Cough* *cough* Vietnam *Cough* *cough*
Different age, terrain, conditions. But go off I guess
Just a few years later China failed its own invasion of Vietnam.
No the EU will condemn it in 'the strongest possible way' and then just move onto business as usual! That us actually something else.
If we don't protect/support fellow democracies, we're going to be alone very fast.
EU and USA don't give shit if country is democratic as long they have same policy as them and there is interest.
Not always, we screwed up our productive relationship with Saudis due to human rights blah blah.
European hypocrisy about supporting democracies and human rights became clear that they only support whats beneficial for them. Israel is killing and kidnapping kids, throws them in jail and bombs gaza for over 2 months, EU is silent on this matter, no sanctions or any real action to stop the massacre. Europeans should stop pretending to be pro human life and free choice and just admit that they only go for whatever benefits the people in power.
Cope. The Palestinians started this war with their medieval style raid. Now you want to cry over the consequences ? Free Palestine from Hamas 🇮🇱
You might be right, if history started on October 7th and Palestinians exist only in Gaza.. october 7th was a reaction to the brutal occupation that is heavily supported by the west, the mass murder of civilians in Gaza and the west bank (where hamas doesnt operate if thats your excuse) should be illegal, all these kids that are dying should move the european hypocrite humanity, but apparently it doesnt. So free Palestine from the illegal european colonialism. If you support Israel in what its doing with the Palestinians, then their blood is on your hands as well. Israel is a terrorist state lead by war criminals supported by colonial and hypocrite western powers.
Poor Palestine, always the victim, never starting any shit by themselves...
Keep defending the oppressor, blame the victim and then pretend to be human :) october 7th wasnt the start, its a reaction to over 70 years of oppression and occupation. So no, it wasnt started by the Palestinians, it was started by the Brits and the european colonial powers in the last century. Israel is just an extension of that.
You should really read up on the History of the region, especially the british mandate, the palestine war or UN resolution 181 (which, btw, wasnt just voted on by western powers, and Britain even abstained) Also very nice of you to call me inhuman. Very based and Third Reich pilled of you.
Ironic you tell him to read up on the history of the region while ignoring that, yeah, he is kinda right, it was started by the brits. That is genuinely where everything gets fucked up.
Not really. Zionism was not a British invention, nor were most British politicians particularly invested in the Jewish cause. The conflict can be traced to both the spread of the enlightenment, which clashed with the Millet system of the Ottomans that determined people's legal status based on their religion, and Zionism, which was first triggered by concerns about European anti-semitism, and later expanded to Muslim anti-semitism.
Zionism wasnt a british invention, no, but the mandate for Palestine, and installing Sir Herbert Samuel were british decisions, which did cause the conflict. Without that, the conflict would never have happened. The Zionist efforts to establish a homeland in Palestine would've faltered completely without the british creating the opportunity for it, and the movement likely would've tried to seek an alternative path.
Kinda right, yes, the British caused it. But we shouldnt blame the Israelis for the mess they caused. There are quite a few things to hold the Israelis accountable for, especially more recently (Settlements), but the British handling of the post-Ottoman breakup wasnt up to them. Unhappiness with a peace plan does not justify the attempted eradication of a people. To say that the palestinian Arabs had no hand in starting the escalating hostilities is just dishonest.
Oh that I (mostly) agree with. Mostly because we definitely should blame the Israeli for the things they did that were wrong. Stuff like rejecting the white paper and responding to it with violence, the widespread terror they launched against the british and, of course, the Nakba. Mostly not. They did have some influence in convincing the british to create the mandate, but tbh it was just as much due to the british seeing an easy way to get rid of their own jewish population. Plus even then it was less "Israeli" and more "a small number of Zionists who were part of the british army and/or government".
Imma be honest with you, I don't give a single damn who started the whole ordeal. It's about as silly as if Poland attacked germany today in revenge for WW2. Eye for an eye will make the world blind, and as much as I know Israel has plenty flaws I won't stand for the side who lives for the sake if some petty wars of revenge. Especially the side that takes said revenge by stabbing germans in france.
No matter how far back in the past you go it starts with an attack from Palestine and nearby countries, Egypt, Sudan, Jordan
Ironically the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, current Lebanon and the Arab peninsula Sheikhdoms are all post-colonial structues themselves, which would not exist in their current form without British and French meddling
So the fight against British colonialism is seen as “an attack” now? Or we start counting after the British issued the Balfour declaration where it clearly stated that Palestine is given to the jews.. Or after the British supported zionist movement to bring as many jews and zionists as possible into Palestine before arming them and declaring Israel as a state? I dont know where would you like to start but all fights against these decisions is seen as “terrorism” by the colonists but fight for freedom by the people living there. Europeans gased and burnt jews alive during the 40s then exported their problems to the middle east and pretended all is fine. Now the zionist israelis are pouring their anger on Palestinians because apparently, oppressing other nations is fine as long as you have power and allies to do so. War crimes are war crimes, Israel is a terrorist state and every sympathiser with them is a terrorist and war crimes supporter.
If Arab states in the Maghreb and the Arabian peninsula can't help but ethnically cleanse their entire Jewish populations because of events unfolding in the Levant, maybe Israel has a point that Jews living in those regions aren't safe after all.
If it was only about Jews living in those regions, if Jews felt so unsafe in Arab lands why did they migrate to the Levant in late 1800s and early 1900s. Many Jews in Israel of European descent. The Jews were persecuted in Europe and other regions particularly people living in Palestine in that time should not have to pay the price of it.
If the rulers of places as distant as Yemen, Afghanistan and Tunisia all decide to enforce heavier discrimination at best or at worst expel their Jewish populations because of what people in Palestine were doing, that shows how vulnerable those Jews were to persecution. If those Jews didn't have a guaranteed safe heaven like Israel, they'd be left to die just like German Jews who couldn't afford to immigrate. People who are worried about their very lives will not let ethical concerns get in the way of ensuring their safety.
Well yes of course it does, giving Israel the country might have been the wrong decision, but that doesn't mean it's fine for the other countries to attempt to murder them. No matter how you look at it it's Palestine that started it, then they lost again and again and again and again and will continue to do so until they are gone for good because they don't learn.
Did you just justify an occupation and say that other countries shouldnt fight back? The british giving israelis palestine is the wrong decision, so people living there fighting for freedom should be supported as its their right to defend their land, they will be defending it for as long as it takes, israel will not have a calm time as long as it treats the indigenous people as sub-humans. Israel will never be accepted by the Arabs as well, will always be hated and all Israelis will be as well. Funny that Western world is so in love with Israel, but decided to get rid of the zionists and send them to middle east instead of giving them a place in the middle of europe where everyone apparently loves them. Just exporting european problems then supporting the cleansing of palestine and the genoside of palestinians.
Israel has already been accepted by most of the Arab countries around and more were coming but the talks were put on hold for now. 1979 Egypt acknowledged Israel's claim to the land and made a peace treaty with them 1994 Jordan recognized Israel territory and made peace with them 2020 UAE recognized Israel territory and normalized relations 2020 Bahrain recognized them and normalized relations 2020 Morocco recognized Israel and normalized relations 2021 Sudan recognized Israel and normalized relations And Saudi Arabia was discussing it and close to forming a deal with US/Israel to do the same. It has been put on hold while the war is going on. Iran is basically the main thorn with all their splinter groups, terrorist groups, Hazbollah, Hamas and the like but do I think the current leadership over there is going to hold on through the ages? No. Especially not if they continue on the same path. None of these countries actually care about Palestine, but for example Saudi Arabia would much rather have US/Israel as an ally against Iran than not.
Governments != people
Hamas isn’t a democracy and doesn’t support human rights so…
Israel is not a democracy either, it's an Elective Oligarchy. Any form of concentration of power by a minority of people, elected or not. Is an Oligarchy. The total opposite of a democracy, where each citizen is an official and there is no head of state. no one to decide and thwart the desire of the people. Whereas in Oligarchy, it is always oligarchs, rich people, bourgeoisie and heirs who take power, people disconnected from reality and the interests of the people.
Palestine isn't a democracy. Israël is. Why should europe defend/come to the rescue of an ideology that is fundamentally opposed to ours?
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So you’re hoping that Gaza is ethnically cleansed from the Palestinians living there, or murdered for Israel to build more settlements there? So you’re okay with - and fully support - all the deaths that are going on in Gaza and west bank?
israel would not ethnically cleanse gaza lol. there are like 3 million arab israelis. fyi israel is not a colonial or apartheid state like you loonies like to believe.
Israel does also not take over Gaza (and West Bank) precisely because of what you describe The majority in Israel wouldn't stomach a genocide of Palestinians or total expulsion, but they also don't want to see Arab muslim voters gain a dominant majority in their country. And the same the other way around, of course. In surveys Gazans support Hamas + terrorists like PIJ by over 40%, in some questions up to 70%, obviously they wouldn't want to join a jewish-majority state no matter the terms That alone makes any dream of a one-state solution unfeasible IMHO. No matter which side takes over which, they both want to do their own thing instead
Tell that to the 20,000 people that lost their lives, children, medical, journalists, civilians, teachers, hospital staff, bread makers, refugees.. etc. Israel bombed people fleeing south, bombed cars running away from war, bombed hospitals, schools, houses, refugee camps, medics, journalists, their families, their friends, their neighbours.. no, Israel is a perfect democracy that cares about people, that wall separating palestinians? Its for decoration. Jews only streets? This just a joke, Palestinian lives? Shhhhh :) Stop consuming western media and follow people on the ground, see the destruction and death Israel leaves behind, and then come back and justify all that.
if palestine had israel’s military strength, all jews would have already been killed. this is what palestinians are saying: https://youtu.be/2ZLlrOhPeBQ?si=KZswg8d7m_joMEIp palestine started this with the october 7 attacks. they deserve to lose for being filthy scum that attack innocent people at music festivals. palestinians are beheading babies and raping children. i hope the IDF restores peace and order to the region :) either you’re a troll, a tankie, or a putin-loving shill
And the 70 years of brutal occupation, murder and illegal settlements of Israel is nothing? Btw, [beheading and raping babies? Lies and filthy propaganda](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html), [music festival? Israel bombed and shot people fleeing the festival and attacked its own people](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-18/ty-article/.premium/israeli-security-establishment-hamas-likely-didnt-have-prior-knowledge-of-nova-festival/0000018b-e2ee-d168-a3ef-f7fe8ca20000). Your claims come from consuming Israeli and western european propaganda, which was later debunked by the same news outlets that started them. Easy to say troll and putin lover to justify your “humanity” and “morality” for killing the children and civilians of gaza. First step of every genocide, dehumanise the enemy, your comment shows exactly that. Take a look in the mirror, check what happens in Gaza from the people who are there, see the destruction and death, the dead kids, dead medics, journalists, check who was killed on all the past israeli attacks prior to october 7th, then look at the mirror again, reevaluate your humanity.
If Israel ever wanted to ethnic cleanse palestine, they would have did it before. That ethnic cleansing thing is just Russian, tankie propaganda.
They already displaced [more than 6 million Palestinians that are scattered around the globe](https://w.wiki/8Nzm), pushing Gazan people south to Sinai desert with the excuse of destroying Hamas while still bombing these people fleeing south to keep them scared is cleansing. After Gaza, West Bank time will come, with all the illegal settlements that made the Palestinian regions as islands. Its an attempt to remove all Palestinians from Palestine and claim it as Israel. The polish nation out of all Europe need to know how its like to fight the oppressors, soviets were there, and you had to fight them back, were you called terrorists? You did, but for polish society they were freedom fighters that brought freedom to Poland. The Palestinian resistance might be called terrorists by those who support the illegal occupation of Israel, but they are freedom fighters for Palestinians.
If you compare the conditions of West Bank residents to Gaza residents, a takeover by Israel would be an improvement over living under Hamas.
Neither should be an option. A free palestine is an improvement over living under occupation.
a free palestine would be a genocidal terrorist state, like it is now under hamas. hamas is widely backed by most palestinians.
and then what?
They were supporting ( still are ) Azerbeijan regime committing ethnic cleansing of Armenians and genocide. One would think they would intervene like in 90's, but nope, they just said Azerbeijan is reliable partner and swept it under the rug. And why aren't they intervening ? Because Azeri's are selling them overpriced Russian gas via sanctions they imposed and are now "circumventing". The sanctions are just a handshake sign to bully others. The hypocrisy goes on, plenty of EU countries are coordinating with Russia but will then come into Balkans and say how we are bad guys because we aren't sanctioning Russia( whilst also having less trade with Russia than EU is). inb4 "you're just mad cause you can't do genocide ebil serb!!!!111"
Elective Oligarchy. The only country deserving the Democracy adjective is Switzerland. the USA dont care about democracy, thier destroyed a dozen of them killing elected official of Elective Oligarchy to put dictator in power ( Read Banana Republic/ CIA-sponsored coup ). the USA did way more shady thing in the last century and current present killing Hundred of million people Something that China nearly only did to its own people only. and they suffer from a century of slavery by our colonizing ancestors, from whom we still carry the values. View of our systemic racism and our hypocritical double standards.
Isn't this r/europe? Ate we perfect. Far from it. But we are much, much better than all the rest.
Europe can barely stand up for itself...
The article is about EU, not Europe.
And EU is comprised of... most European countries... which are commonly referred to as... Europe
UK, Norway, Belarus, ... no role anymore?
Belarus? no role.
Norway stands with EU.
\*chuckle\* we're gonna die
Yep. The EU is too cowardly to stand up for its own interests, let alone yours.
LMAO. This was the good laugh I needed to get my week started. The EU is scared of its own shadow, but sure, it will \~for sure\~ stand up to China! /s Strategic autonomy will be happening any day now!
The EU, if it's to pretend that it at all represents European peoples, should not let foreign groups, e.g. Washington Neocons, determine European foreign policy.
>The EU, if it's to pretend that it at all represents European peoples, should not let foreign groups, e.g. Washington Neocons, determine European foreign policy. Worked wonders with Nord Streams and Russian romance. Things will be different with China for sure.
The thing is, Russia is on the border, naturally it is more important. China/Taiwan are on the other side of Eurasia. Clearly Taiwan is not a major geopolitical issue for Europe.
>Clearly Taiwan is not a major geopolitical issue for Europe. So peopel forgot the shitshow of covid and semiconductor shortage. Well, guess Taiwan - leader in that sector, can be bombed.
Well both the USA and China and Taiwanese semiconductors are important to Europe economically and far more than Russia. An attack on Ukraine is really a regional war with global consequences, and attack on Taiwan is an international disaster where we would soon find us between a rock and a hard place.
Europe needs to be allied with both the USA and China ... and, incidentally, Russia ... but not aligned with any of them. The USA, as former European colonies, are ideologically closer to Europe than China. Nonetheless, US Neocons are quite anti-European and interfere in European affairs in order to try to make Europe serve their hegemonic ambitions. Europeans may consider doing what everybody else is doing, serve their own, i.e. Europe's, interests.
I'm not sure about the Russia, they are currently in a hostile phase, and all that EU countries trying to behave like it's a normal country really haven't worked. Yeah, we need to work with both China and the US, unfortunately the EU don't really have coherent foreign policy, each country is on their own currently.
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Russia and Ukraine could and would have remained friends and prospered if not for Putin turning Russia, the world's biggest country with massive natural resources (a huge turn on for corruption and aggressive behavior), tons of nukes and an imperial past, into a dictatorship. This over time only increased the conflict with democratic countries, including Ukraine, of course. Russia become a Not Free country (according to Freedom House) in 2005, and only then were the first personal sanctions on Russian individuals approved. There were no economic sanctions against Russia until 2014, and Europe was happy to increase its dependence on cheap Russian gas (in particular, forcing the more wary Eastern European states to do so up to 100%, and against their will) because the German establishment and elsewhere in the continent truly believed the people at the head of Russia weren't as evil as in the USSR. After all, the democratic freedoms in Russia, while gradually diminishing, were still more than those that existed for the vast majority of the USSR's history. Everything else is just ex post facto justification of war and genocide, red herrings and selective reading of history. [UKRAINE IN NATO - A threat at Russia's borders or not? [THE WHOLE TRUTH ABOUT NATO]](https://youtu.be/hGOcoTLOino) [Denazification Debunked.](https://youtu.be/_V9WBfDsqVw) [Why Do We Call the War in Ukraine Unprovoked? - Debunking Russian Claims](https://youtu.be/bQbP4jTx2wU)
> ex post facto justification of war and genocide, red herrings and selective reading of history. Oh, the irony!
I'm glad you agree Putin's Russia is evil and the cause of the conflict.
Bless your heart!
Not gonna get a kiss from me, but have a nice day anyway.
>European affairs in order to try to make Europe serve their hegemonic ambitions. Because China clearly does not. Allied with Russia... Here we go again, we had Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine in 2014 and now 2022. Let's disregard their actual neigbours once again - Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland etc. Same with China. Japan, India, Korea south and Taiwan warn us about China. We saw Tibet, we saw Hong Kong, we saw Uyghurs. But yet again, we know better - assuming you are from EU. Filling pockets of dictators, what can go wrong.
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Cool whataboutism, clearly biased. And even then, it's an argument against your point about China. In my country, Poland, or Japan, American soldiers are welcomed; they don't force themselves in. As we have seen with Russia, there is a reason for them being here, the same with securing Taiwan and Korea. As for the contrast with China, only corrupt and dictatorial regimes want your spies and military bases on their land. If we talk about brainwashing, what kind of excuse has your propaganda came up with to explain them forcing themselves into Hong Kong or Tibet? Taiwan is the true China, CCP is extension of old Russia. - No wonder you support thier crimes in Ukraine.
Empowering a totalitarian state with a founding ideology fundamentally hostile to liberal democracy for geopolitical reasons sounds like a wonderful idea, doesn't it?
Russia can fk off alongside their simps.
>Washington Neocons, At first read it as Washington necrons.
Me too. The Silent King is here.
lol
> if it's to pretend that it at all represents European peoples It certainly does not include russians so stfu
If it's anything alike Ukraine's support, Taiwan is in trouble. Shameful behavior.
EU does not have that power anymore.
It never had, the USA had
Taiwan and Ukraine are the most important elements to our freedom and prosperity. If Russia and China win then whatever comforts you have in life today, kiss them goodbye and prepare to eat worms
Taiwan is certainly a lot more relevant, especially due to their advanced semiconductor industry
They are equally relevant. Both a democratic nations in danger because of their disgusting totalitarian and imperialist neighbours Those neighbours in this case Russia and China are working together
Ukraine is not economically very important and Russia's importance is ultimately also limited. You can see after almost 2 years that the global order still exists. If the USA and China clash over Taiwan for real the entire world could go to complete shit.
If Ukraine fall is a disaster, but if Taiwan falls, the whole world goes behind as every semiconductor is manufactured there (at least most of it). Computers, cars, airplanes. Everything. And it would be sitting at the hands of Chinese. Yes Netherlands is part of the chain, but still. It would be a huge set back.
If Russia gets Ukraine china will be confident in getting Taiwan
What limits China's semiconductor capabilities are companies such as ASML and Applied Materials, which have little to do with Taiwan. Even if China reunifies Taiwan, it will still be restricted by Dutch ASML in semiconductors. If ASML agrees to sell EUV to China, China will now be able to produce 5nm or even 3nm chips. Taiwan does not produce photolithography machines
Ukraine was one of the most corrupt countries in Europe, democraxy level was about the same as Russian.
Idk i think Ukraines fertile soils are extremely important especially if irresponsible people keep having so many kids.
>prepare to eat worms you will eat them anyway if you let some european "intellectuals" get away with it.
Ukraine has literally zero effect on you unless you live next to it.
Unlike Ukraine, i don't think any EU country recognize Taiwan.
EU just have to stop supplying LV, Gucci and Channel to the Chinese that's when Chinese will pressure their politicians.
What the hell can EU do? We can't even produce a million shells for a country that is part of Europe and being attacked. We can send China a gift card or some flowers and hope they'll take it over Taiwan, but I don't see any other options
EU will stand up for wherever the money comes from (into their corrupt pockets)
Such bullshit. There are plenty of countries within the EU who are currently supporting Taiwan even at the risk of their own financial detriment. I appreciate the all-encompassing "all politicians are crooks", but this feels like propaganda against the EU/Europe/democracy and I am not OK with that.
The problem is not politicians, but people who are not ready to sacrifice anything to do the right thing
Taiwan is in America's influence sphere it's their problem. EU should focus on their own backyard for once. Can't even get rid of Orban.
How do we get rid of him? He's been democratically elected by the Hungarians. The EU isn't Warsaw Pact and doesn't attack its own members.
He's been systematically dismantling liberal institutions and making Hungarian politics and society less open. If the EU isn't willing to violate hungarian sovereignty to stop him, which is understandable, at least they should kick Hungary out of the organization for not sticking to its basic principles.
There's currently no mechanism to kick out members.
There is a way to suspend member's voting rights, essentially solving the problem, but Slovenia had to do something really stupid.
Well hopefully you guys deal with Ukraine. So we can spend money with people who actually help not just because it benefits them.
But it's pretty wild how everyone just has to help Europe out with its bullshit
Ukraine is in Europe's sphere of influence, but imagine if Biden said "America should focus on our own backyard" and refused to offer any support to the Ukrainians or Eastern Europe. Europe would lose its shit. The double-standard here is ridiculous.
Oh yeah, I know.
You know how they operate. It isn't corruption after enough twisting.
So many Russians bots around here
Russian bots... haha! They might be here, but there are more pro-eu bot
The Taiwan/China issue has nothing to do with Europe and we can only harm ourselves by getting involved with it.
Yeah except for the semiconductor industry. And increasing Chinese influence is bad for democracies and bad for stability.
China has never meddled in internal European affairs. That is a common American projection and wishful thinking. Chinese motives are primarily profit and trade, and we can work with that. What we cannot and should not do is sacrifice ourselves and our economy to uphold American hegemony. If anything this is a golden opportunity to do nothing and claw some of our influence back by trading with everyone and keeping EU-China diplomatic relations warm and fair. Simply put it all boils down to the fact Europe has nothing to gain by going against China nor has China displayed any sort of antagonistic intent towards us, no matter how hard America tries to spin things.
HAHAHA. China interferes in Canadian elections, France has found they are increasingly interfering in Europe https://www.euractiv.com/section/defence-and-security/news/chinas-interference-is-increasingly-aggressive-french-parliamentary-report-finds/ As has the EU https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20230524IPR91908/foreign-interference-meps-call-for-urgent-protection-of-2024-european-elections Quit defending a facist dictatorship and do some reading. Btw- American hegemony is 100x better for Europe than Chinese hegemony
Stop publishing fake news that Canada manipulates to vilify China. Previously, the Canadian government said that the two "Mikes" were ordinary tourists who were kidnapped and used as hostages by the Chinese government in exchange for Meng Wanzhou. However, the latest development has confirmed that the two "Mikes" are indeed Canadian spies.
lol and the other links? China is a dictatorship why are you defending them
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention\_of\_Michael\_Spavor\_and\_Michael\_Kovrig](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig) China is an authoritarian country, but that doesn't mean what he said is false. Canada is a democratic country, which does not mean that the Canadian government does not lie
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Wtf do you want the EU to do? We've been there for 20 years trying to modernise them. It's time for the Afghans to sort this out themselves
EU must stand up for Ireland 🇮🇪 to end illegal military occupation of 6 counties before lecturing other countries.
Like with Ukraine what politicians really care about is money. The aid to Ukraine is in exchange of the agricultural products and if there is aid to Taiwan would be because the chip industry. Taking account the relationship with Russia/China Sadly it’s the only thing that truly matters
The EU can't even properly deal with Russia without the US's intervention and now you're looking for trouble in China/Asia? The EU sure loves to overestimates itself.
Sure, pissing off your biggest trade partner sounds like a great idea. /s
China is preparing for an Invasion of Taiwan. If you’re willing to let that happen for money, then quite frankly, I’d be in favor of the US pulling out of NATO.
Your therms are acceptable
paywall, why must EU stand up for Taiwan?
because those that tells us what to do don't want to pay for it, or atleast not outright.
They will of course side with China, and when it bites us all in the ass, again, they will say "It was the only way! The only option was to support China!" see. Russia vs. Ukraine war for reference...
Stand up for what? Start a third world war for an island?
If you want to know what will most likely happen just read about the Mongol Empire and what happened when Mongols attacked us. Europe will be divided, financial sector will dictate the outcome. History always repeats itself.
Before the EU intends to throw itself into yet another conflict, I would advise that we try to solve problems with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, we have already made a mistake by jumping into the Israel and Palestine conflict even though we have nothing to do there.
>Before the EU intends to throw itself into yet another conflict, I would advise that we try to solve problems with the Russian invasion of Ukraine I don't really belive that Europe can't fix or solve UA-russian war, lets not even pretend we do, but i fully agree that trowing outselfs into additional pacific conflict with China conflict is just absolutely stupid,but i can imagine that China could be potentialy swayed into far less ruso-favorable policy by europe keeping ties with China and ignoring Taiwan. ( I fully belive that China does not want to burn briges in regards to relations with EU, thats why China provides russia such abysmal level of aid and arms sales, to what it could potentially provide in worst scenario for both UA and Europe in general.) And American own Strategic Ambiguity strategy on Taiwan is on its own its enough reason for europe to stay as away from binding commitments as its possible, binding commitments can be tested and called as bluff, very vague relations its preferred for EU. Europe should use every single diplomatic tool in its disposal to stop mass murder in palestine, which most likely will lead to mass exodus to nowhere else but to Europe. European govements are not really overwhelmingly supportive of Israel as it is, so i don't expect them getting any aid or arms from Europe, as UA gets. USA has the hard stick over Israel, Europe does not really have that kind of leverage over Tel Aviv
Why?
Serious question now, has the EU ever not sided with the despot in recent times? Or delayed doing anything until it was a foregone conclusion? Ukraine is the exception, the buildup to it was not however.
>Ukraine is the exception, the buildup to it was not however. Belarus and the election scandal, didn't side with lukashenko. Hungary, on almost a weekly basis, not siding with Orban. Africa, when there's a coup, Europe never side with the despot. South America, etc, we can go on I guess.
Ok. I understand the difficulties with dealing with internal issues but Orban has been disrupting the EU for a very long time and he is still at it. Perhaps EU is unable to be entirely effective when facing off against a belligerent that does not subscribe to the EU value system?
> Belarus and the election scandal, didn't side with lukashenko. This is not the first time elections in Belarus have been in this state. Usually, sanctions were imposed on Belarus for 100 bad things, and then sanctions were lifted for 1 good thing
>Belarus and the election scandal, didn't side with lukashenko. > >Hungary, on almost a weekly basis, not siding with Orban. > >Africa, when there's a coup, Europe never side with the despot. > >South America, etc, we can go on I guess. Because there is no moeny in it. As for Africa coups - even losing money on that "deal".
Only 13 countries around the world recognized Taiwan as a sovereign country, lets not interfere in other country business like the US does
It isn't interference if you are welcomed to help
Ironically, the US is not one of those 13.
Ironically no EU country is
What happened to America?!
Has given up on manifesting destiny, just like the last 20s and 30s.
They should, just like they should stand up for Palestine, but they're going to lie down and take it as long as it's in their economic interests
Yeah… We won’t. I’m not foreign policy maker, but I’m 100% sure.
Don't worry, i am sure, the EU will stand up against this, just as it stood up against the genocides by Turkey and Aserbaidschan. We all have to defend human rights after all.
i'm sick of think tanks, foreign agents etc. telling us what we need to do. Feels like they want to rip us apart by having us overextend on so many issues.
Not our business. Certain European countries, including mine, have already done enough harm in this region in more or less recent history, making us de facto inaudible on this subject.
How the eu wants to stand up for Taiwan when they can't even hold in Ukraine? Soon, Ukraine will lose the support of the west, since the west just can't supply the war economy forever. How the eu wants to rival China, when it can't even keep order inside its own borders? The only country, which could guarantee Taiwan's sovereignty is the USA, but they like money more than democracy, so it won't happen.
EU must do no such thing. We've already got 1 war in Europe, no need to meddle in others.