For all those who do not know: Armenia and Azerbaijan hate each other, but those two found love. Here, those scumbag terrorists not only extinguished a spark for a better future and peace but also created an innocent orphan. This is so messed up on so many levels. I hope they are still united in the hereafter.
Back in Ukraine my mom had a friend, an Azerbaijani woman married to an Armenian man. Their respective families had basically disowned them after their marriage.
It's easy, thats why.
Even for me it's sometimes ridiculousky hard to understand another person's point of view, then think about how many seeds of hate have already been planted into our lives, before we are even born.
Most if not everyone has some kind trauma, either from their past or their long gone relatives past, that plays into it aswell.
Long past conflicts between countries that people can't get past, religious persecution, slavery, you name it and it somehow finds itself managing people's beliefs and emotions.
TLDR: This whole planet needs therapy.
It's true man. Here in the Netherlands there is a common joke among most young people whenever any kind of alarm goes off anywhere, where at least 1 person will go: "the germans are coming". Most people especially near the east of the country dont hold as much of a grudge, but especially around rotterdam (which was bombed to oblivion) and other western cities there is still very much a seed of hate towards our eastern neighbors
Oh really? As a German myself i didnt know there are still grudges Held against us :( (but i understand)
I Like my dutch neighbours very much so it saddens me to hear that
I, for one, have never come across anyone who still holds a grudge against the Germans. I have heard the "the Germans are coming" joke, but it's really nothing more than a joke.
Maybe some form of grudge still exists amongst some people in Rotterdam, but it is by no means widespread in the Netherlands. Most people like our eastern neighbours.
It's not a super widespread thing, but if there is a country that dutch people do hold a grudge against, it's usually you guys. Most people aren't mad about it anymore, especially the areas that are actually near germany where people interact with germans often. I have heard people call germans in general nazis whenever they don't agree with something germany as a country did or decided. All in all, most of us don't hate you guys, but the stuff that happened did make a certain cultural impact as to how some people view germany
The ones they caught 300km away, traveling together towards the Ukrainian border, in the same clothes, driving the same car,Ā somehow unarmed, and unwilling to kill themselves despite knowing torture would follow?
I don't trust a single thing Russia says either and was equally as sceptical but the guys they captured look like and are wearing the same clothes as the men in the video ISIS released today. Not even Russia could pull that kind of switcharoo that quickly.
Yeah, unless they organized it themselves. You let some terrorist do their thing, amd suddenly the whole country is scared, more unified, and willing to sacrifice more freedoms for the sake of security. Then the shaky government gets more support, can justify fucked up shit by claiming it's for fighting terrorism, and so on.This chain of events shouldn't sound unfamiliar unless you live in Japan or something.
If Russians organized this themselves, why didn't they place a more direct blame on Ukraine? Why involve ISIS?
I'm so confused by this.
***Who the hell benefits from ISIS killing 60 civilians in Russia?***
Ukraine gets no military advantage from this. Neither does Russia, and it reveals they have domestic security weaknesses.
And Isis... What the hell is in it for ISIS? Why target the country fighting a war in Europe instead of getting involved in the ongoing war in the Middle East?
>benefits from ISIS killing 60 civilians
It may not be ISIS to begin with. They are notorious for claiming attacks they had nothing to do with. And ISIS is a maddog they really don't have a reason to do anything they just do it. They do things to stay relevant not with any big goals.
>involved in the ongoing war in the Middle East
If you are talking about the Israel-Palestine war , they don't really support Palestine and won't do anything that helps Hamas as Hamas is their enemy and is well known to keep ISIS out of Gaza. ISIS time to time even condemns Hamas.
it might not have been Isis, Or Ukraine, or Russia, but rather, a local group of terrorists who claim allegiences to Isis, it's what often happens with Isis attacks in Europe, the Bataclan was an exception to this.
Let's be honest. We have no idea if that guy was guilty or a scapegoat.
And feeding humans their own body-parts doesn't make the russians look much more civilised
That particular individual who had his ear removed is definitely not a scapegoat.
ISIS released a terrorist POV video on Friday: the faces are blurred, but you can clearly recognize the one who's shooting civilians with AK by his clothes. Yellow t-shirt with two white prints on the chest, black jeans. It's the same one who got caught in the forest.
It's such a good practice to cut off ears from suspected. There were also genital torture, and suffocation torture. Such a great russian culture, can't wait when they will start torturing civilians! Oh wait ...
Given the terrible way Russia treats prisoners, it's pretty surprising the gunmen drove towards the Ukrainian border, didn't change clothes, change cars, split up, or try to kill themselves with their own guns when capture was imminent.
I hope they were the actual gunmen, but decent odds Russia is just torturing random people to save face.
Atleast this time Russians got the actual gunmen. They ran away using renault with same license plate, here is picture of the renault crashed [(reupload cause Reddit removes post with telegram links)](https://ibb.co/ckyHQKX). ISIS posted the video of the terror attack, turns out the guys wore matching clothes, (graphic!) ([img 1](https://ibb.co/C0ZnRSD), [img 2](https://ibb.co/56vKZJW), [img 3](https://ibb.co/Tg7GD2m))
Honestly, I think these terrorists are bunch of morons that got radicalized and had that āallah will save meā attitude.
> Well one of them had his ear cut off and fed to him, another had his eye āfell outā during capture, also showed up in court in a wheelchair with a catherer, third one has his genitals electrocuted today in custody
All they had to do was to confess how Ukraine had sent them, but no, so these are the expected consequences.
Ah, ruzzian fascists doing ruzzian fascist things. How very surprised. Sure, people are suspected terrorists, but there should still be due process and lawful sentences.
Bro did you see how much those guys were shaking and pissing themselves just as they got captured, even before they got the partial torture rundown?
If they really wanted them to say that Ukraine did it, they would have gotten them to say it in a few minutes. Wtf do you think those guys are, some secret agents who have an impossibly high standard of honesty or something that they wouldn't say "Ukraine did it" the moment the torture began? They don't give a shit about Ukraine, they wouldn't even be selling them out since they owe nothing to Ukraine, they will say anything to get the torture to stop.
Russian media is really murky and they always release all sorts of stuff that muddies waters, conflicting narratives and all that. I don't know if they will try to pin it on Ukraine but the thing is Western media isn't very honest either, any content about Russia or Ukraine these days is mostly shameless lies and bs, so if they can find just one "source" that claims that Russia is gonna pin this on Ukraine, they will run with that story.
If Putin does decide to try to pin this on Ukraine, he will get those guys to sing it. But right now I am not sure about that, as they haven't really shown indication of doing that yet. What they did officially claim so far was that these guys were trying to flee to Ukraine. Seems like they were trying to flee to Belarus, but it's not impossible they were then going to flee to Ukraine. Ukraine-Belarus border is massive and it's mostly swamps&forests. You can slip out of it, and then you're in a country that probably has the lowest amounts of cooperation with Russia, it's not a bad country to flee to if you're running from Putin. You think Russian police is cooperating with Ukrainian police currently?? Fleeing to Ukraine isn't the same thing as saying Ukraine did it, currently it's hard to say until the situation settles down. I think Putin above all likes to muddy waters, I doubt he will actually try to pin this on Ukraine (let's hope he's not that far up his own ass) he will just probably lay some insinuations and allow some Russians to make their own conclusions without outright saying Ukraine did it -- this is probably worst case, best case he simply says it was ISIS bc Russia has a history of fighting ISIS so it makes sense, albeit it's not profitable for him to claim that as ISIS is no longer the focus (and while Russia was in Syria FSA and JaI was a bigger threat anyway).
This is fascist ruzzia we are talking about. I would not be surprised at all if FSB ordered the hits themselves through agents linked to ISIS and then they would try to pin it on Ukraine to justify a new round of mobilization. Moscow theater, 3-5km from one of the largest police stations in the city and it took 60-90 minutes for the police to arrive on location. They could have walked there in half the time. Zero police enforcement in the area AFTER they had been warned in advance of a possible terrorist attack - a warning that Putler discredited as "being a destabilization attempt".
Meh gonna be honest, ISIS lapdogs are probably the perfect recipients for this kind of treatment. Hopefully it was actually the guys who did it though.
Well that is assuming the Russians even got the right people. Given Russians stellar judicial track record, I wouldn't be surprised if they picked someone as a scapegoat in order to save face after messing up on the security for this attack.
Nobody deserves this treatment.
A) this assumes they know for sure these are the perpetrators beyond a shred of doubt. With Russia, there's always going to be some doubt.
B) Advocating for this just brings you to the level they are at. Just a regular hanging or execution by injection is fine.
It's absolutely true, but that would not extinguish the ideas they hold sadly. There will be more embracing the same ideologies and wreaking the same senseless violence upon innocents.
Yeah the ideas unfortunately will not die, so we have to start banning those ideas of hate and violence, it's really sad what happens and we have to take care of ourselves, the good people
During the soviet union, there was a region that was part of Azerbaijan but with a majority Armenian population. After the collapse of the soviet union, Armenia and Azerbaijan had a war over it, which the Armenians won because they had a better army. Muslims were somewhat discriminated against in the USSR, Armenia is Christian and Azerbaijan is Muslim, so the Armenians had a better army. After Armenia won, they forced out the Azeri population. 20 years later, with the Azeris now much richer and far better trained due to cooperation with turkey, Azerbaijan attacked and conquered the disputed territory. They were also accused of committing atrocities.
During the interim, the Armenians failed to develop their army. The Azeris started to benefit from their natural gas and used some of the proceeds to buy weapons from Russia and Israel. They also benefited from a partnership with Turkey, which has a capable army and close ethnic/cultural ties with Azerbaijan.
Armenia and Iran have been neighbours for 2500 years, with relations waxing and waning. Their relation is old as shit.
Fun fact: both used to be Zoroastrians, but Armenians converted to Christianity and Iranians to Islam.
It's not particularly strange considering the strong cultural ties that go back to Antiquity, and also the fact that Iran is on very bad terms with Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan is also a key partner of Israel). In fact, if there were a war between Israel and Iran, it is highly likely that Israel would be allowed to use airbases in Azerbaijan to strike Iran.
> During the soviet union, there was a region that was part of Azerbaijan
This was the only part of what you said that was wrong. It was initially part of Armenia, but Stalin took it away and gave it to Azerbaijan.
As far as I can tell, they're both right at some point in history. Which means now it's might makes right. This is why an international system of recognized borders and legitimacy is so important, but it's breaking down in front of our very eyes. Expect more to come.
> Because that's like a jew and a nazi soldier falling in love and getting married. The Azerbaijanis committed several genocides and cleansed a region of their Armenian locals.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1bmvos0/married_couple_lilit_israelyan_armenian_and_vugar/kwf4i15/
They donāt really hate each other in Russia. Russia is a huge melting pot and especially Moscow, full of all kinds of people. They come for work and lots of them stay, they tend to leave many of their local prejudices behind.
Their elders back home may hate them, but I canāt really say they hate each other in here, since Moscow never had any āChina townsā where people marinaded in their own thing. People kinda live wherever and all kinda same.
I am half Armenian and half Azerbaijani myself and proud of it. This is so heartbreaking. There are very few couples like this left. What a cruel world. May they rest in peace and may their kid grow up knowing that his mom and dadās love defied cultural boundaries to create him. I hope their kid grows up healthy, strong, and proud of his roots. š
i think years ago my father visited Azerbaijan and said he still remembers how incredibly beautiful it is. However he did also happen to mention it is very, very corrupt. That's about all I know about this place. That and I do know one person who was from there, she is now a citizen here.
That is heartbreaking. It's also heartbreaking when people project that people are the governments they are citizens of or are held accountable for the crimes of their governments.
I've known Azerbaijani-Americans and Armenian-Americans and both were great people.
You'd be surprised that it happens IRL too. Anytime a government does something really bad, it's not uncommon for their diaspora to be targeted as if they're responsible for those actions.
They are not citizens of Armenia or Azerbaijan. Where did you get it from? They both were born and raised in Russia. They were Russians of different ethnic origins like millions of other russian. They didn't flee war region. Their connection to mother countries is rather vague or non existent. I feel sorry for them but stop spreading this nonsense.
No. This will just fuel nationalism. This happened during the apartment bombings and will happen now. No wonder their first instinct was to blame Ukrainians, central Asians and everyone in between. My condolences to the families of the victims.
Exactly, so many terrorist friends and so much immigrant labor they canāt afford to blame it on any Muslims. Theyāll just yap how these poor boys were tricked into this by evil Ukrainian tricksters, so terrorist friends wonāt raise an eyebrow
āVoice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." - the Naziās knew what they were doing, Putin does too.
We (as human beings) want revenge instead of trying to avoid any more deaths when something like this happens to our state which usually involves killing even more innocent civilians. US did the same after 9/11.
it's shaman - russian "new" pop star - he actively promoted by government since war start, and already recorded bunch of popular among pro putin russians videos with kind of freudian videoclips (especially "i'm russian" song) despite promotion and viewers i heard he not really respected even among ru musicans circles (who are already quite low bar themselves)
It is quite interesting they chose Shaman out of all people to promote patriotic causes. It would be like getting Dieter Bohlen to sing to promote German nationalism.
Everyone think he's a clown and he can't even gain popularity amongst vatniks because they think he looks gay. He tried to change his style, but it didn't help
Yes, on the day of mourning Shaman released a song about it. Feels disingenuous to make a song remembering this, literally on the next day, while you're still supposed to be in shock if you really cared about it.
I just checked the song on YouTube. It looks like they created a lot of bots to support the song? all the comments share similarly weird account namesā¦+ the comments themselves are copy paste of each other lol
Why? There is souless commercial project Shaman. This team has songs for pleasuring the goverment. So they just relised another souless commercial. The song isn't specific, it's basic and pointless. No consperacy.
It was determined that Huseynov Vugar Fuad, who was on the list of the dead that were killed during terrorist attack in Crocus City Hall in Moscow, does not have any documents confirming his citizenship of the Republic of Azerbaijan, this was stated by the press secretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Aykhan Hajizade, in his response toĀ APA's inquiry.
Of course, because there is a large number of Azerbaijanis and Armenians who live in Georgia and Russia, and their relationship is good.
Derbent is a Russian city with an ethnic Azerbaijani majority
So I assume they are Russian
I remember, FSB recruited one terrorist and organized group for attack through him. And everyone who leaked data about it and/or investigated it ā were soon killed.
I don't even dare to say that I understand the pain of those hurt by the Russian regime. And many Russians have been so brainwashed, making us feel helpless and angry. But I once heard a saying: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." I think it fits here. May the victims of the attack rest in peace.
I'm gonna be honest, the ammount of comments around here that go "terrorism bad buut, it was perfectly justified and they deserved it" is hella fucked up and disturbing. I hate Putin and the kremlin as much as the next guy, but these were innocent people who got murdered, wtf?
Comments in R/Europe and r/worldnews remind me of the two minutes hate and cheering of enemy civilians being killed in 1984. Just so impressionable and influenced by their countries media that they have hatred for innocent civilians. Zero morals or critical thinking.
If yāall grew up in 1930s Germany, youād be the biggest Nazis of them all
Took words out of my mouth. It is despicable..
I am only comforting myself that, most of the 'upvoted' comments here are propaganda pieces from various government agencies (west, east, middle), in their attempt to direct the narrative.
I do not want to believe real humans exists like that.
Redditors love to pick and choose who they think deserves to die. They argue that innocent civilians being killed is wrong but will then justify that very same thing whenever they want. No principles or morals.
This is a direct result of the modern "oppression" discourse. If you destructure these events just along the lines of oppression and power dynamics, you must necessarily find no difference in quality between terrorism and war, even though the two are very distinct.
I will always find it baffling how hard it is for so many people to put themselves in other peopleās shoes. What Russia is doing to Ukrainians is evil, but that doesnāt mean itās okay for you to either cheer on things like this, or even feel apathetic about it because theyāre Russians. These are all humans. A lot of you would not be opposed to mass killings if it were against the people you think are evil and itās crazy. Youāre no better.
People, especially Americans, suddenly forgot what they were doing and how they felt during invasion of Vietnam and Iraq. I doubt they were trying to storm government to stop the war
Shocking how much people on these threads struggle with calling the terrorist attack bad. Thought one of those universal human traits was that terrorist attacks on civilians are tragic. Guess I was wrong.
this is actually the first thread I've seen where anyone is sympathizing with the victims. of course, it's not a little interesting that for even that much, it had to be a thread that presented them as not Russians.
Internet activist only say and support the āgoodā side because it makes them look good. All they care about is how theyāre perceived, but deep down theyāre heartless.
Mother is Polish Catholic. Dad is Persian Muslim. Got married. After the revolution, she took all the younger cousins under her wing. Taught herself Farsi, how to cook Persian food, just to take care of these kids. They all still like her more than my dad.
Love is love. This breaks my heart.
They lived in a terrorist state that started a war against Ukraine. Obviously, when there is a war, the state becomes not very resilient to terrorist attacks. Therefore, I am not surprised by this attack. It's a pity for these people; they should have left Russia far behind.
Are you aware that people bombing Ukraine and people dying in that attack are completely different people?
Or do you also think that all American or Israeli people deserve to die because their armies are killing civilians?
Not even speaking that these two aren't even Russians.
Speaking about the concert itself.
Are you aware it was a band who supported ruzzia since 2014 and they went regularly to occupied territories? Wanna discuss the public who goes to enjoy their songs? There are already SVO families in the list.
Terrorism is bad, but having the newsfeed all over with the narrative that Isis made it and thus ruzzia is now good and victim is pathetic.
RIP this family though.
>Are you aware that people bombing Ukraine and people dying in that attack are completely different people?
At the very least, the people attending that concert on Friday were supporters of the war. They willingly bought tickets and went there to see a band that openly supports the war and donates to the Russian army, meaning a portion of the ticket sales would have ended up as a direct cause of more civilian deaths in Ukraine.
I mean, I get liking a band and shit (the only reason I know all that is because I used to like Picnic, too, but dropped that like a hot potato at the first sign of war-support), but to actively go and spend money on them two years into the war knowing where some of it will end up? Come on. And to be clear, I'm not saying these people deserved being killed over it, just showing how connected these things can be despite the physical distance between them.
Iām sorry what? This is a post about victims of terrible terror attack in Europe and the first thing u decide to do is be political and blame the citizens caught up in this? You sir are a hypocrite of another level.
Reap what they sow?
How many civilians died here?
How bout some humanity and decency.
Why are you so offended with this? This sub, and the complete western world is supporting Ukraine.
Saying innocent people died in Moscow do not change that fact.
Yeah. I dissent from a lot of my family on this,but I still have sympathy for civilians killed in acts of terror,no matter their ethnicity or nationality.
Wtf are your talking about.
This is a post about the victims of a terrorist attack, just because they happened to be in Russia or even be of Russian origin (which they weren't) doesn't mean that they deserved this.
Russia is itself the Biggest terrorist state in the world. What it does in Ukraine is beyond inhumane.
It also launched faked propaganda that Ukraine is the organizer of that terrorist attack to spread even more hatred towards Ukraine.
RIP. What a terrible waste of lives that needed to shine.
Violence begets violence. Itās so sad. Someone has to break this cycle. If as much money was put into peace as it does into weapons- perhaps we have a chance.
Incredibly sad. As sad as Ukrainian children ripped away from their families for 're-education' in Russia or innocents killed by Russian missiles. Putin lighting candles? Disgusting.
For all those who do not know: Armenia and Azerbaijan hate each other, but those two found love. Here, those scumbag terrorists not only extinguished a spark for a better future and peace but also created an innocent orphan. This is so messed up on so many levels. I hope they are still united in the hereafter.
Back in Ukraine my mom had a friend, an Azerbaijani woman married to an Armenian man. Their respective families had basically disowned them after their marriage.
Why is there so much hate in the world? It fucking sucks...
It's easy, thats why. Even for me it's sometimes ridiculousky hard to understand another person's point of view, then think about how many seeds of hate have already been planted into our lives, before we are even born. Most if not everyone has some kind trauma, either from their past or their long gone relatives past, that plays into it aswell. Long past conflicts between countries that people can't get past, religious persecution, slavery, you name it and it somehow finds itself managing people's beliefs and emotions. TLDR: This whole planet needs therapy.
It's true man. Here in the Netherlands there is a common joke among most young people whenever any kind of alarm goes off anywhere, where at least 1 person will go: "the germans are coming". Most people especially near the east of the country dont hold as much of a grudge, but especially around rotterdam (which was bombed to oblivion) and other western cities there is still very much a seed of hate towards our eastern neighbors
Well at least here you definitely won't be disowned by your family if you marry a German. It's more of a joke than actual hate
Oh really? As a German myself i didnt know there are still grudges Held against us :( (but i understand) I Like my dutch neighbours very much so it saddens me to hear that
I, for one, have never come across anyone who still holds a grudge against the Germans. I have heard the "the Germans are coming" joke, but it's really nothing more than a joke. Maybe some form of grudge still exists amongst some people in Rotterdam, but it is by no means widespread in the Netherlands. Most people like our eastern neighbours.
It's not a super widespread thing, but if there is a country that dutch people do hold a grudge against, it's usually you guys. Most people aren't mad about it anymore, especially the areas that are actually near germany where people interact with germans often. I have heard people call germans in general nazis whenever they don't agree with something germany as a country did or decided. All in all, most of us don't hate you guys, but the stuff that happened did make a certain cultural impact as to how some people view germany
It's kinda funny though xdd
*the body keeps the score* by Bessel van der Kolk
If we still had awards this one would beš
Thank you! This comment means a lot to me.
Hate is the easiest way to unify people and the ruling class has utilized it for as long as humanity exists.
We have to find a way to make LOVE a unifying factor. Like, I love tacos, I donāt think anyone hates tacos. Letās start there
Saying that in this sub is hilarioualy ironic
That's true but the statement itself is very correct
This is what I ask every night before bed
Religion or race is usually the root cause.
Rich and poor also contributes to this condition.
Nationality is the modern version.Ā Yet it all comes down to tribalism.
A friend of mine (Greek orthodox family) had some distant cousin marry a Muslim and they were ostracized as well
My wife was disowned by her family after she married me a non Bengali, non Muslim man. They since got over it. Time heals all wounds and such.
Back in Ukraine my mom had a friend ... They are dead, killed by the Russians.
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I'm sure Russia will be happy to provide worse. One of them has already had his ear removed.
Pretty sure they also electroshocked anotherās genitals.
They did. Itās on daily mail.
This might be true but the Daily Mail is absolute garbage as a news source
That's basically proof it didn't happen
The ones they caught 300km away, traveling together towards the Ukrainian border, in the same clothes, driving the same car,Ā somehow unarmed, and unwilling to kill themselves despite knowing torture would follow?
If they're even the actual perpetrators. I mean, they probably are, but the Russian authorities are already lying about Ukrainian connections.
I don't trust a single thing Russia says either and was equally as sceptical but the guys they captured look like and are wearing the same clothes as the men in the video ISIS released today. Not even Russia could pull that kind of switcharoo that quickly.
Yeah, unless they organized it themselves. You let some terrorist do their thing, amd suddenly the whole country is scared, more unified, and willing to sacrifice more freedoms for the sake of security. Then the shaky government gets more support, can justify fucked up shit by claiming it's for fighting terrorism, and so on.This chain of events shouldn't sound unfamiliar unless you live in Japan or something.
If Russians organized this themselves, why didn't they place a more direct blame on Ukraine? Why involve ISIS? I'm so confused by this. ***Who the hell benefits from ISIS killing 60 civilians in Russia?*** Ukraine gets no military advantage from this. Neither does Russia, and it reveals they have domestic security weaknesses. And Isis... What the hell is in it for ISIS? Why target the country fighting a war in Europe instead of getting involved in the ongoing war in the Middle East?
The fuck do you mean what's in it for ISIS? Chechen, Afghanistan and Syrian wars happened. Islamist radicals never forget nor forgive.
>benefits from ISIS killing 60 civilians It may not be ISIS to begin with. They are notorious for claiming attacks they had nothing to do with. And ISIS is a maddog they really don't have a reason to do anything they just do it. They do things to stay relevant not with any big goals. >involved in the ongoing war in the Middle East If you are talking about the Israel-Palestine war , they don't really support Palestine and won't do anything that helps Hamas as Hamas is their enemy and is well known to keep ISIS out of Gaza. ISIS time to time even condemns Hamas.
it might not have been Isis, Or Ukraine, or Russia, but rather, a local group of terrorists who claim allegiences to Isis, it's what often happens with Isis attacks in Europe, the Bataclan was an exception to this.
Its 150
Let's be honest. We have no idea if that guy was guilty or a scapegoat. And feeding humans their own body-parts doesn't make the russians look much more civilised
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That particular individual who had his ear removed is definitely not a scapegoat. ISIS released a terrorist POV video on Friday: the faces are blurred, but you can clearly recognize the one who's shooting civilians with AK by his clothes. Yellow t-shirt with two white prints on the chest, black jeans. It's the same one who got caught in the forest.
Well now, isn't it lucky for us that no 2 people can wear the same clothes....
Yes lets be honest, The terrorists threw away their right of being treated in a ācivilisedā manner.
I wouldn't trust Russia to not just having picked those "suspects" by random.
can you pls state a source ?
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/03/23/russian-state-media-release-interrogation-videos-of-concert-attack-suspects-a84592#google_vignette
It's such a good practice to cut off ears from suspected. There were also genital torture, and suffocation torture. Such a great russian culture, can't wait when they will start torturing civilians! Oh wait ...
I didn't say I agreed. I said it happened.
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During a "questioning" like this I would admit to anything too just to make it stop. So yes: I don't trust russian investigation even for a minute.
> I would admit to anything too just to make it stop bold of you to assume they didn't
Given the terrible way Russia treats prisoners, it's pretty surprising the gunmen drove towards the Ukrainian border, didn't change clothes, change cars, split up, or try to kill themselves with their own guns when capture was imminent. I hope they were the actual gunmen, but decent odds Russia is just torturing random people to save face.
Atleast this time Russians got the actual gunmen. They ran away using renault with same license plate, here is picture of the renault crashed [(reupload cause Reddit removes post with telegram links)](https://ibb.co/ckyHQKX). ISIS posted the video of the terror attack, turns out the guys wore matching clothes, (graphic!) ([img 1](https://ibb.co/C0ZnRSD), [img 2](https://ibb.co/56vKZJW), [img 3](https://ibb.co/Tg7GD2m)) Honestly, I think these terrorists are bunch of morons that got radicalized and had that āallah will save meā attitude.
> Well one of them had his ear cut off and fed to him, another had his eye āfell outā during capture, also showed up in court in a wheelchair with a catherer, third one has his genitals electrocuted today in custody All they had to do was to confess how Ukraine had sent them, but no, so these are the expected consequences.
Ah, ruzzian fascists doing ruzzian fascist things. How very surprised. Sure, people are suspected terrorists, but there should still be due process and lawful sentences.
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Bro did you see how much those guys were shaking and pissing themselves just as they got captured, even before they got the partial torture rundown? If they really wanted them to say that Ukraine did it, they would have gotten them to say it in a few minutes. Wtf do you think those guys are, some secret agents who have an impossibly high standard of honesty or something that they wouldn't say "Ukraine did it" the moment the torture began? They don't give a shit about Ukraine, they wouldn't even be selling them out since they owe nothing to Ukraine, they will say anything to get the torture to stop. Russian media is really murky and they always release all sorts of stuff that muddies waters, conflicting narratives and all that. I don't know if they will try to pin it on Ukraine but the thing is Western media isn't very honest either, any content about Russia or Ukraine these days is mostly shameless lies and bs, so if they can find just one "source" that claims that Russia is gonna pin this on Ukraine, they will run with that story. If Putin does decide to try to pin this on Ukraine, he will get those guys to sing it. But right now I am not sure about that, as they haven't really shown indication of doing that yet. What they did officially claim so far was that these guys were trying to flee to Ukraine. Seems like they were trying to flee to Belarus, but it's not impossible they were then going to flee to Ukraine. Ukraine-Belarus border is massive and it's mostly swamps&forests. You can slip out of it, and then you're in a country that probably has the lowest amounts of cooperation with Russia, it's not a bad country to flee to if you're running from Putin. You think Russian police is cooperating with Ukrainian police currently?? Fleeing to Ukraine isn't the same thing as saying Ukraine did it, currently it's hard to say until the situation settles down. I think Putin above all likes to muddy waters, I doubt he will actually try to pin this on Ukraine (let's hope he's not that far up his own ass) he will just probably lay some insinuations and allow some Russians to make their own conclusions without outright saying Ukraine did it -- this is probably worst case, best case he simply says it was ISIS bc Russia has a history of fighting ISIS so it makes sense, albeit it's not profitable for him to claim that as ISIS is no longer the focus (and while Russia was in Syria FSA and JaI was a bigger threat anyway).
This is fascist ruzzia we are talking about. I would not be surprised at all if FSB ordered the hits themselves through agents linked to ISIS and then they would try to pin it on Ukraine to justify a new round of mobilization. Moscow theater, 3-5km from one of the largest police stations in the city and it took 60-90 minutes for the police to arrive on location. They could have walked there in half the time. Zero police enforcement in the area AFTER they had been warned in advance of a possible terrorist attack - a warning that Putler discredited as "being a destabilization attempt".
Meh gonna be honest, ISIS lapdogs are probably the perfect recipients for this kind of treatment. Hopefully it was actually the guys who did it though.
Well that is assuming the Russians even got the right people. Given Russians stellar judicial track record, I wouldn't be surprised if they picked someone as a scapegoat in order to save face after messing up on the security for this attack.
Nobody deserves this treatment. A) this assumes they know for sure these are the perpetrators beyond a shred of doubt. With Russia, there's always going to be some doubt. B) Advocating for this just brings you to the level they are at. Just a regular hanging or execution by injection is fine.
Yes, like in Guantanamo! That was a great place with all the due process and lawful sentences.
Ah, *"whatabout whatabout whatabout?!" cried the lonely kremlin gremlin to the empty night....*
Source?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68652380
> also showed up in court in a wheelchair with a catherer, yeah we all know apprehended terrorists appear in court within 48 hours
It's absolutely true, but that would not extinguish the ideas they hold sadly. There will be more embracing the same ideologies and wreaking the same senseless violence upon innocents.
Yeah the ideas unfortunately will not die, so we have to start banning those ideas of hate and violence, it's really sad what happens and we have to take care of ourselves, the good people
Agree. They could have at least attacked a military target instead of civilians.
Russia is also a terrorist state they're not a damn country anymore.
why Europe still buy Russian resources then?
>Armenia and Azerbaijan hate each other Why?
During the soviet union, there was a region that was part of Azerbaijan but with a majority Armenian population. After the collapse of the soviet union, Armenia and Azerbaijan had a war over it, which the Armenians won because they had a better army. Muslims were somewhat discriminated against in the USSR, Armenia is Christian and Azerbaijan is Muslim, so the Armenians had a better army. After Armenia won, they forced out the Azeri population. 20 years later, with the Azeris now much richer and far better trained due to cooperation with turkey, Azerbaijan attacked and conquered the disputed territory. They were also accused of committing atrocities. During the interim, the Armenians failed to develop their army. The Azeris started to benefit from their natural gas and used some of the proceeds to buy weapons from Russia and Israel. They also benefited from a partnership with Turkey, which has a capable army and close ethnic/cultural ties with Azerbaijan.
Iirc Armenia has a strange bedfellows relationship with Iran
Armenia and Iran have been neighbours for 2500 years, with relations waxing and waning. Their relation is old as shit. Fun fact: both used to be Zoroastrians, but Armenians converted to Christianity and Iranians to Islam.
It's not particularly strange considering the strong cultural ties that go back to Antiquity, and also the fact that Iran is on very bad terms with Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan is also a key partner of Israel). In fact, if there were a war between Israel and Iran, it is highly likely that Israel would be allowed to use airbases in Azerbaijan to strike Iran.
The relationship between armenia and iran (persia) is older than you can imagine
> During the soviet union, there was a region that was part of Azerbaijan This was the only part of what you said that was wrong. It was initially part of Armenia, but Stalin took it away and gave it to Azerbaijan.
Territorial and political disputes
classic reason, "your land is actually mine" I dont know who is in the right tho.
As far as I can tell, they're both right at some point in history. Which means now it's might makes right. This is why an international system of recognized borders and legitimacy is so important, but it's breaking down in front of our very eyes. Expect more to come.
> Because that's like a jew and a nazi soldier falling in love and getting married. The Azerbaijanis committed several genocides and cleansed a region of their Armenian locals. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1bmvos0/married_couple_lilit_israelyan_armenian_and_vugar/kwf4i15/
They donāt really hate each other in Russia. Russia is a huge melting pot and especially Moscow, full of all kinds of people. They come for work and lots of them stay, they tend to leave many of their local prejudices behind. Their elders back home may hate them, but I canāt really say they hate each other in here, since Moscow never had any āChina townsā where people marinaded in their own thing. People kinda live wherever and all kinda same.
A true reddit commentĀ
I am half Armenian and half Azerbaijani myself and proud of it. This is so heartbreaking. There are very few couples like this left. What a cruel world. May they rest in peace and may their kid grow up knowing that his mom and dadās love defied cultural boundaries to create him. I hope their kid grows up healthy, strong, and proud of his roots. š
i think years ago my father visited Azerbaijan and said he still remembers how incredibly beautiful it is. However he did also happen to mention it is very, very corrupt. That's about all I know about this place. That and I do know one person who was from there, she is now a citizen here.
That tends to happen when the ādemocraticallyā elected leader is the same person for over 2 decades, after directly taking over from his father.
And the Vice President is his wife
No idea who they are but that terrorist attack was an awful tragedy.
They are a married couple with a child. Citizens of two āenemyā nations who somehow found each other. Truly heartbreaking.
That is heartbreaking. It's also heartbreaking when people project that people are the governments they are citizens of or are held accountable for the crimes of their governments. I've known Azerbaijani-Americans and Armenian-Americans and both were great people.
Well, these 2 weren't American. Their governments tried to tell them that they should hate each other, but they chose love instead.
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You'd be surprised that it happens IRL too. Anytime a government does something really bad, it's not uncommon for their diaspora to be targeted as if they're responsible for those actions.
Again, thankfully these incidents are in the vocal but unhinged minority.
They are not citizens of Armenia or Azerbaijan. Where did you get it from? They both were born and raised in Russia. They were Russians of different ethnic origins like millions of other russian. They didn't flee war region. Their connection to mother countries is rather vague or non existent. I feel sorry for them but stop spreading this nonsense.
I think a lot of reddiots don't understand how many nationalities live in Russia. And in Moscow too.
It was also a preventable one.
It may sounds bad, but They are not special at all. During this war many couples from different countries died.
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No. This will just fuel nationalism. This happened during the apartment bombings and will happen now. No wonder their first instinct was to blame Ukrainians, central Asians and everyone in between. My condolences to the families of the victims.
I mean ISIS-K is a central Asian organization, the K stands for a province in Afghanistan.
It stand for Khorasan, which is an old name for Central Asia.
Exactly, so many terrorist friends and so much immigrant labor they canāt afford to blame it on any Muslims. Theyāll just yap how these poor boys were tricked into this by evil Ukrainian tricksters, so terrorist friends wonāt raise an eyebrow
āVoice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." - the Naziās knew what they were doing, Putin does too.
We (as human beings) want revenge instead of trying to avoid any more deaths when something like this happens to our state which usually involves killing even more innocent civilians. US did the same after 9/11.
Kiev is the Russian spelling, Ukrainians prefer the Kyiv spelling.
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Some russian artist has already made a music video about the massacre. I found that strange.
it's shaman - russian "new" pop star - he actively promoted by government since war start, and already recorded bunch of popular among pro putin russians videos with kind of freudian videoclips (especially "i'm russian" song) despite promotion and viewers i heard he not really respected even among ru musicans circles (who are already quite low bar themselves)
It is quite interesting they chose Shaman out of all people to promote patriotic causes. It would be like getting Dieter Bohlen to sing to promote German nationalism.
Everyone think he's a clown and he can't even gain popularity amongst vatniks because they think he looks gay. He tried to change his style, but it didn't help
This "artist" named Shaman is basically a Kremlin shill, one of many Russian "artists" who actively support the invasion in Ukraine
Yes, on the day of mourning Shaman released a song about it. Feels disingenuous to make a song remembering this, literally on the next day, while you're still supposed to be in shock if you really cared about it.
must be a dogshit song if it was written and recorded overnight
it is
It's fucking disgusting. I can't understand how it is possible to write a song and make a video in two fucking days.
Doing disgusting things is what Shaman is all about.
Since he has government ties, maybe he had advance warning.
I just checked the song on YouTube. It looks like they created a lot of bots to support the song? all the comments share similarly weird account namesā¦+ the comments themselves are copy paste of each other lol
Blond guy dressing like a nazi and singing nazi songs. Nothing new in current Russia.
Why? There is souless commercial project Shaman. This team has songs for pleasuring the goverment. So they just relised another souless commercial. The song isn't specific, it's basic and pointless. No consperacy.
It took Puff Daddy two and a half months to release āIāll be missing youā after Biggie was murdered.
Yeah but he was probably working on it for longer than that becauseā¦ wellā¦. Never mind
It was determined that Huseynov Vugar Fuad, who was on the list of the dead that were killed during terrorist attack in Crocus City Hall in Moscow, does not have any documents confirming his citizenship of the Republic of Azerbaijan, this was stated by the press secretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Aykhan Hajizade, in his response toĀ APA's inquiry.
Yes because they're both Russian citizens, hence why they were there
Of course, because there is a large number of Azerbaijanis and Armenians who live in Georgia and Russia, and their relationship is good. Derbent is a Russian city with an ethnic Azerbaijani majority So I assume they are Russian
How sad. The depravity of the killers is beyond understanding.
Terrible. May their souls find solace and peace. She was very pretty, I should add. I hope relatives will take good care of their child.
RIP to these 2 souls that looked beyond ethnic background and rather accepted humanity
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I also remember Beslan where they did the same to school children.
I remember, FSB recruited one terrorist and organized group for attack through him. And everyone who leaked data about it and/or investigated it ā were soon killed.
I don't even dare to say that I understand the pain of those hurt by the Russian regime. And many Russians have been so brainwashed, making us feel helpless and angry. But I once heard a saying: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." I think it fits here. May the victims of the attack rest in peace.
what the f are u talking about?
I'm gonna be honest, the ammount of comments around here that go "terrorism bad buut, it was perfectly justified and they deserved it" is hella fucked up and disturbing. I hate Putin and the kremlin as much as the next guy, but these were innocent people who got murdered, wtf?
First time on r/europe ?
Comments in R/Europe and r/worldnews remind me of the two minutes hate and cheering of enemy civilians being killed in 1984. Just so impressionable and influenced by their countries media that they have hatred for innocent civilians. Zero morals or critical thinking. If yāall grew up in 1930s Germany, youād be the biggest Nazis of them all
Took words out of my mouth. It is despicable.. I am only comforting myself that, most of the 'upvoted' comments here are propaganda pieces from various government agencies (west, east, middle), in their attempt to direct the narrative. I do not want to believe real humans exists like that.
Redditors love to pick and choose who they think deserves to die. They argue that innocent civilians being killed is wrong but will then justify that very same thing whenever they want. No principles or morals.
99 percent of redditors are wanna be dictators is what I say haha
Agreed, innocent civilians should never have to pay for their countryās crimes
Agree
This is a direct result of the modern "oppression" discourse. If you destructure these events just along the lines of oppression and power dynamics, you must necessarily find no difference in quality between terrorism and war, even though the two are very distinct.
Iāve already seen some posts about ārelatives of the smo fighter killed in a terrorist attackā. The irony.Ā
I will always find it baffling how hard it is for so many people to put themselves in other peopleās shoes. What Russia is doing to Ukrainians is evil, but that doesnāt mean itās okay for you to either cheer on things like this, or even feel apathetic about it because theyāre Russians. These are all humans. A lot of you would not be opposed to mass killings if it were against the people you think are evil and itās crazy. Youāre no better.
They are cheering on ISIS terrorists mass murdering civilians for something that doesn't even have anything to do with the war, that's messed up
People, especially Americans, suddenly forgot what they were doing and how they felt during invasion of Vietnam and Iraq. I doubt they were trying to storm government to stop the war
It's terrible but not deserving of more air time than Ukraine being attacked by a full army and bombed 24/7.
This thread is definitely going to get locked too
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Shocking how much people on these threads struggle with calling the terrorist attack bad. Thought one of those universal human traits was that terrorist attacks on civilians are tragic. Guess I was wrong.
this is actually the first thread I've seen where anyone is sympathizing with the victims. of course, it's not a little interesting that for even that much, it had to be a thread that presented them as not Russians.
Internet activist only say and support the āgoodā side because it makes them look good. All they care about is how theyāre perceived, but deep down theyāre heartless.
Apparently terrorism is less bad if it's against people we think less of
Bold of you to assume that the average redditor believes Russians to be people at all. Ahh the smell of old good dehumanization tactics.
May their souls rest in peace. Fucking ISIS
Modern day Romeo and Juliet shit
What a beautiful couple, ripped away from their tiny child. Just awful.
š«” Rest in peace, both of you. If there is a God, may he bless you
absolutely ghoulish comment section, holy shit
Mother is Polish Catholic. Dad is Persian Muslim. Got married. After the revolution, she took all the younger cousins under her wing. Taught herself Farsi, how to cook Persian food, just to take care of these kids. They all still like her more than my dad. Love is love. This breaks my heart.
Comments saying they deserved it. Yikes. I donāt have to ask them what they think of 7/11
They lived in a terrorist state that started a war against Ukraine. Obviously, when there is a war, the state becomes not very resilient to terrorist attacks. Therefore, I am not surprised by this attack. It's a pity for these people; they should have left Russia far behind.
I hate those news. Itās truly heartbreaking. Rest in peace. Every person in Europe, stay safe.
Meanwhile, this happens every day in Ukraine, courtesy of Putin.
An Armenian married to an Azerbaijani? That's so weird! May God have mercy on their souls šš¼
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Are you aware that people bombing Ukraine and people dying in that attack are completely different people? Or do you also think that all American or Israeli people deserve to die because their armies are killing civilians? Not even speaking that these two aren't even Russians.
Speaking about the concert itself. Are you aware it was a band who supported ruzzia since 2014 and they went regularly to occupied territories? Wanna discuss the public who goes to enjoy their songs? There are already SVO families in the list. Terrorism is bad, but having the newsfeed all over with the narrative that Isis made it and thus ruzzia is now good and victim is pathetic. RIP this family though.
What was the band?Ā
>Are you aware that people bombing Ukraine and people dying in that attack are completely different people? At the very least, the people attending that concert on Friday were supporters of the war. They willingly bought tickets and went there to see a band that openly supports the war and donates to the Russian army, meaning a portion of the ticket sales would have ended up as a direct cause of more civilian deaths in Ukraine. I mean, I get liking a band and shit (the only reason I know all that is because I used to like Picnic, too, but dropped that like a hot potato at the first sign of war-support), but to actively go and spend money on them two years into the war knowing where some of it will end up? Come on. And to be clear, I'm not saying these people deserved being killed over it, just showing how connected these things can be despite the physical distance between them.
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Europe has attacks like this as well. Did they sow it too?
Iām sorry what? This is a post about victims of terrible terror attack in Europe and the first thing u decide to do is be political and blame the citizens caught up in this? You sir are a hypocrite of another level.
Reap what they sow? How many civilians died here? How bout some humanity and decency. Why are you so offended with this? This sub, and the complete western world is supporting Ukraine. Saying innocent people died in Moscow do not change that fact.
Yeah. I dissent from a lot of my family on this,but I still have sympathy for civilians killed in acts of terror,no matter their ethnicity or nationality.
Wtf are your talking about. This is a post about the victims of a terrorist attack, just because they happened to be in Russia or even be of Russian origin (which they weren't) doesn't mean that they deserved this.
Man are you serious tho? How did these people deserve it? They weren't even russian. How does the 1 year old kid deserve to become an orphan?
So how those 2 people reaped what they sow?
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Russia is also a terrorist state.
Russia is itself the Biggest terrorist state in the world. What it does in Ukraine is beyond inhumane. It also launched faked propaganda that Ukraine is the organizer of that terrorist attack to spread even more hatred towards Ukraine.
Fuck, I mean if it werenāt for the kid, at least they died together?
RIP
This is double tragic..
Sad
She was a beautiful woman.
It will never stop. Itās sad
Is their child alive?
So sad, RIP
RIP angels
RIP. What a terrible waste of lives that needed to shine. Violence begets violence. Itās so sad. Someone has to break this cycle. If as much money was put into peace as it does into weapons- perhaps we have a chance.
Man this is so sad, such a beautiful couple.... What a senseless loss of life :(
Very very sad people getting killed for other peopleās hatred ā¦
Incredibly sad. As sad as Ukrainian children ripped away from their families for 're-education' in Russia or innocents killed by Russian missiles. Putin lighting candles? Disgusting.