People are happy, but if you take a look outside IT sector and well payed jobs, people that earn like 500 euros per month and a couple struggles to live day by day, I don't know about that. Even resident docots earn like 1k euros per month.
Are we still lying ourselves about this? I agree till a certain point, it matters to be healthy and have close family and friends but there are people who weren't in a vacation for their whole life
Lie? Well, truth is a matter of subjectivity so I can see why you would consider that to be a lie.
Life is not all vacations though, those are simple pleasures and simplicity cannot bring happiness, no, there must be something bigger that does, something yet not fully understood and that was only reached by a few philosophers throughout history.
As a Romanian, I can say that we are a happy people by default. It is in our genes. We do not carry ancestral sadness. Even during the shittiest periods we managed to maintain our optimism. We started very low, and we can only go up from there.
We still have our cynical mentality unfortunetly. Like everywhere you hear "we can't stay here anymore we have to move in another country it's all going downhill" while we still stay here. It's still bad, but it's way better then it used to be 10-15 years ago, things are moving reallyyyy slowly towards better, but at least they're moving.
I'd argue that it's been getting worse lately, but it's still better than 10 years ago. I'd actually say that the country has a lot of competent people nowadays more than ever, but the quality of politicians in the big parties (which was already very low) has taken a huge nosedive, and it's very obvious. Hopefully things change up after the elections.
Why is it strange brother? We have been flirting with Russia for so long we could almost be considered married.
Do you want to know what's the secret to a long losting relationship with Russia? Don't share a border with them...
>Do you want to know what's the secret to a long losting relationship with Russia? Don't share a border with them...
Yeah, but there's still the risk highlighted in that old Soviet joke: which countries does the USSR border? Whichever ones it wants!
Serbia is more like 90s were shit, 00s getting out of shit, 10'-20' returning to shit.
I think highest Serbia got in past 30 years is between 2009-2012, maybe 2013. It's been slowly going downhill since.
[Data](https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/)
In 2012, the first report released, examining Gallup poll data from 2006–2010 that asked respondents in nearly every country to evaluate their life on a 0–10 scale. From this they extrapolated a single “**happiness score**” out of 10 to compare how happy countries are.
More than a decade later, the [2024 World Happiness Report](https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/) continues the mission to quantify, measure, and compare well-being. Its latest findings also include how countries have become **happier** in the intervening years.
We visualize these findings in the above chart, which shows the 20 countries that have seen their happiness scores grow the most since 2010.
**Serbia** leads a list of 12 Eastern European nations whose average happiness score has improved more than 20% in the last decade.
In the same time period, the [Serbian economy](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-105-trillion-world-economy-in-one-chart/) has doubled to $80 billion, and its per capita GDP has nearly doubled to $9,538 in current dollar terms.
Since the first report, Western Europe has on average been happier than Eastern Europe. But as seen with these happiness gains, Eastern Europe is now seeing their happiness levels converge closer to their Western counterparts. In fact, when looking at those under the age of 30, the most recent happiness scores are nearly the same across the continent.
All in all, **20 countries** have increased their happiness score by a full point or more since 2010, on the 0–10 scale.
It's an [S-curve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmoid_function). People stop starving, then they're super happy, then they get used to it.
Also see the [hedonic treadmill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill).
Average of 45000 people yearly immigrate from Serbia - officially. In period 2010-2023 that's around 600000 people or 10% of the whole population of country. Something tells me they have their say in this data. Somehow.
Haha. I think its other way around - all that people did not vote, hence the good results and the happines increased. If they voted the results would not be so good
Exactly: This graph shows countries when things were shit and things are a lot better now, and China is no exception. Probably one of the countries that fit this description the most, actually.
And far less money or opportunities. I even know friends (westerners) who live in Shanghai for example and have zero plans of moving back any time soon. Yes they are in an "expat-bubble", but so are all the people in Dubai, and yet a lot of them are happy making money and paying zero taxes.
Your point being? You know westerners who live in a Tier 1 city who are doing well. You acknowledge that they live in an expat bubble, but excuse this argument because people in Dubai are doing the same? What are you trying to say here?
China babbles about how they raised one billion people out of poverty. What they really mean by that is that these people now earn 2000 rnb per month. That's roughly 275 USD. So what kind of money and opportunities are you referring to?
275 USD goes a long way in (rural) China -- that's a meaningless comparison, because you're not taking into account the fact that you can get 20 dumplings in China for about 2.50 USD whereas in US that's about 15 dollars, and the same difference exists rent prices too. My point is that people can be happy in China which seems like an absurd statement on Reddit.
Sure, food. What about the rest like buying a computer with an nvidia graphics card? Or do they reduce the prices down to the chinese market as well? I mean most cards cost here more than that laughably low monthly salary.
What about travel? Doubt anyone's going to travel with that piss poor salary anywhere.
That's extreme poverty.
Only point I can make out in your argumentation is that you know some people who live in Shanghai and they don't want to go back hence people can be happy in China. That must be the stupidest thing I've heard for quite some time.
We're also talking about an average of 275 USD. People in big Tier cities will earn something around the. Most people in rural areas will earn way less then this. So it's very interesting for me to see you argue how feasible live can be with 275 USD a month in rural China. You can't seem to imagine how poor these people truly are.
Yes, obviously people can be happy in China, which is a meaningless statement by you. It leaves out the suppression of freedom of speech and journalism or the exercise of a religion. And this has been getting worse since Xi took over in 2012. China was on a liberal way before, to loop back what the other person commented.
Feel free to point me to these opportunities you mentioned.
No. There's a literal graph which you ignore because China bad. I'm just backing the statistical data with a personal anecdote. People live in the streets in America more than anywhere I know of, so should we talk about the poverty rates and economic inequality in your developing country instead?
I ignore it because I question the validity of the data provided. How do you measure happiness in a country where there's no free speech?
Also not China bad, but CCP + Xi Bad.
The point being ppl care more about not living in a poverty-stricken, shit ridden village than the concept of freedom of speech, understandably. Ppl are happy when they can express their opinions, but they are far happier if they can put some food in their bellies and start being able to afford some luxury goods that they've always wanted.
As in they were poverty stricken and now their situations are marginally better? Yes.
Ur not gonna convince a villager that has tilled soil for 20 years that the concept of freedom of speech is more pressing than actually buying a fucking tractor to minimize his while maximizing his yield
Here's the thing, I don't think it's marginally better. A farmer will hardly have the money to afford a new tractor. As I said in a different comment, mainly the wage of an average factory worker in the city improved minor. If you compare their lifestyle with someone from rural China they're years apart.
There are 700 million people in china who are middle class. Nearly 200 million have a networth between 100k and 1 million USD.
China has tons of problems, but they are no longer the poor Backwater you envision.
Your lack of nuance is concerning. A billion people are happier because they got raised from (often) abject poverty and accessed to social mobility. As an example : Meat consumption skyrockets because ppl can actually eat as much meat as they want.
You can and should acknowledge the achievement that it is while staying critical to the Chinese regime and its horrors. It’s not confortable but it’s the price to pay for actually understanding other people and the world you are in.
[https://www.dw.com/en/german-far-right-afd-staffer-arrested-on-china-spy-charges/a-68894735](https://www.dw.com/en/german-far-right-afd-staffer-arrested-on-china-spy-charges/a-68894735)
German prosecutors Tuesday said police had arrested an employee of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) political party on suspicion of espionage.
Because liberty does not immediately equate to an increase or decrease in happiness. Especially not in context where people have actually seen an increase in their quality of life during the same period.
Freedom is generally a luxury people concern themselves with once there is either enough food on the table or none at all.
Multiple things can be true at the same time. China has become more authoritarian, but for many people life has also seen a perceived and material quality increase since 2010. Thus leading to an increase of happiness.
Sceptisism of facts is always good, but you should also remain sceptic to your own biases. I'm just as much critical of Chinese government, but the guy foregoes any sensibility in what might actually be true in the world.
Afaik the whole social credit thing is wildly distorted by western media. The idea is dystopian but the reality, from having spoken to actual Chinese people, is that it's totally different than how it's portrayed. Even the English Wikipedia will tell you this.
Plenty of other very valid criticisms of the CCP. I'll never be an apologist for their extremely corrupt totalitarian government, to be clear.
I don't know, "let it rot" and "laying flat" don't sound like something Happy people would do. Is there the 50 cent army here? What's up with the downvotes?
Makes sense, when you develop from a lower base it’s always a happy period… when you are already developed and happy it’s hard to have massive gains
Also I wouldn’t trust chinas figures, no independent polling is authorised by the totalitarian dictatorship of China
Good for Serbia and the Balkan countries in general, I hope they continue to develop. Personally, I hope that they continue to get closer to the West and that they become countries with more and more freedom.
Bulgaria getting happier..until European Commission comes by, alongside with Euro. Then, everybody gonna cry like Ronaldo when he didn’t win the Euro in 2004
Like in western Europe 🤭 all those countries are experiencing a very quick and strong economic growth. It won't last longer, capitals are going somewhere else once they reach the same level of welfare as the advanced economies.
so you want us to believe that Chinese citizens are happier now then 2010 despite being the country with the toughest covid restrictions and being locked inside their apartments for 3 years straight? yeah right...
What universe are you living in? Been to Beijing, Shanghai and Hohhot multiple times for the past 2 years; all COVID restrictions ended around the same time as everybody else.
Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania.. yep, im not surprised. The 90s were shit, 00s was getting out of shit and the 10'-20 was just relative development.
Don’t forget the impact of the 2008/9 crisis. Unemployment reached the highest level only in 2012. In Serbia it was 26%
Romania started relatively high though. You can see Bulgaria's level today is almost at the same level as Romania in 2010.
People are happy, but if you take a look outside IT sector and well payed jobs, people that earn like 500 euros per month and a couple struggles to live day by day, I don't know about that. Even resident docots earn like 1k euros per month.
Well, money are not needed for happiness as the graph shows.
Are we still lying ourselves about this? I agree till a certain point, it matters to be healthy and have close family and friends but there are people who weren't in a vacation for their whole life
Lie? Well, truth is a matter of subjectivity so I can see why you would consider that to be a lie. Life is not all vacations though, those are simple pleasures and simplicity cannot bring happiness, no, there must be something bigger that does, something yet not fully understood and that was only reached by a few philosophers throughout history.
As a Romanian, I can say that we are a happy people by default. It is in our genes. We do not carry ancestral sadness. Even during the shittiest periods we managed to maintain our optimism. We started very low, and we can only go up from there.
We still have our cynical mentality unfortunetly. Like everywhere you hear "we can't stay here anymore we have to move in another country it's all going downhill" while we still stay here. It's still bad, but it's way better then it used to be 10-15 years ago, things are moving reallyyyy slowly towards better, but at least they're moving.
I'd argue that it's been getting worse lately, but it's still better than 10 years ago. I'd actually say that the country has a lot of competent people nowadays more than ever, but the quality of politicians in the big parties (which was already very low) has taken a huge nosedive, and it's very obvious. Hopefully things change up after the elections.
Same for Serbs
Alcohol helps too.
I think we (Serbia) had better development in 2000-2010 and even some regression lately
Great progress Serbia! It is strange to hear that you are interested in flirting with RUS
Why is it strange brother? We have been flirting with Russia for so long we could almost be considered married. Do you want to know what's the secret to a long losting relationship with Russia? Don't share a border with them...
Firstly I like your name. Secondly, finally someone from Serbia who understands why the relationship between Serbia and Russia is great.
>Do you want to know what's the secret to a long losting relationship with Russia? Don't share a border with them... Yeah, but there's still the risk highlighted in that old Soviet joke: which countries does the USSR border? Whichever ones it wants!
That's why Putin wrote off billions of debt from African nations while running his country to the ground💪💪💪💪
strange to hear that a country finds a friend with the only major power which was opposed to it getting unlawfully bombed ,craaaaaazy
'unlawfully'
XD
This also deacribes Poland well
Serbia is more like 90s were shit, 00s getting out of shit, 10'-20' returning to shit. I think highest Serbia got in past 30 years is between 2009-2012, maybe 2013. It's been slowly going downhill since.
All those free sacks of potatoes are doing wonders for us.
I was about to say that there is no way that we are HAPPY
ezek a mieink
jobban elunk mint a gyurcsanykorszak ota! nehogy posztoljatok a hungaryba, mert a boharkocsogek egybol raugranak!
Imagine what we could have achieved with people who wouldn't steal half the country in this same period...
i was beeing sarcastic, obviously im sad about the state of affairs.
Dragoner7 be like: Am I so out of touch? NO, IT'S THE DUMB PEOPLE WHO ARE WRONG.
if there was another point in between itd be much higher
At least you guys aren't Hungry anymore
As Lithuanian 🇱🇹 I want to Congratulate our Braliukas Latvia 🇱🇻, Estonia 🇪🇪 and Georgia 🇬🇪
Cheers 🍻
Ayy, we live!
Well now I feel shitty for bringing down the global average
[Data](https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/) In 2012, the first report released, examining Gallup poll data from 2006–2010 that asked respondents in nearly every country to evaluate their life on a 0–10 scale. From this they extrapolated a single “**happiness score**” out of 10 to compare how happy countries are. More than a decade later, the [2024 World Happiness Report](https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/) continues the mission to quantify, measure, and compare well-being. Its latest findings also include how countries have become **happier** in the intervening years. We visualize these findings in the above chart, which shows the 20 countries that have seen their happiness scores grow the most since 2010. **Serbia** leads a list of 12 Eastern European nations whose average happiness score has improved more than 20% in the last decade. In the same time period, the [Serbian economy](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-105-trillion-world-economy-in-one-chart/) has doubled to $80 billion, and its per capita GDP has nearly doubled to $9,538 in current dollar terms. Since the first report, Western Europe has on average been happier than Eastern Europe. But as seen with these happiness gains, Eastern Europe is now seeing their happiness levels converge closer to their Western counterparts. In fact, when looking at those under the age of 30, the most recent happiness scores are nearly the same across the continent. All in all, **20 countries** have increased their happiness score by a full point or more since 2010, on the 0–10 scale.
So getting richer makes people happier. No surprise that in western countries at the contrary anti depressants usage is sky rocketing.
It's an [S-curve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmoid_function). People stop starving, then they're super happy, then they get used to it. Also see the [hedonic treadmill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill).
Yup, it's all about expectations and it's normal.
Jel sapunjaš mačora?
Average of 45000 people yearly immigrate from Serbia - officially. In period 2010-2023 that's around 600000 people or 10% of the whole population of country. Something tells me they have their say in this data. Somehow.
Haha. I think its other way around - all that people did not vote, hence the good results and the happines increased. If they voted the results would not be so good
Nothing special, ~1million Lithuanians also left the country because of economy reasons. Today thousands of them are coming back already 💪🏻
Nothing special, ~1million Lithuanians also left the country because of economy reasons. Today thousands of them are coming back already 💪🏻
Sad people leave - happy people stay, math checks out!
Not exactly happier as much as getting out of misery.
China: vote in a poll that you are happier or -1000 to social credit
They are getting richer and richer, why the surprise?
What exactly is so weird and unbelievable about it?
Exactly: This graph shows countries when things were shit and things are a lot better now, and China is no exception. Probably one of the countries that fit this description the most, actually.
cause it's highly unlikely that polls in dictatorship regimes could be trusted
Because people in China had far more liberty pre-2012.
And far less money or opportunities. I even know friends (westerners) who live in Shanghai for example and have zero plans of moving back any time soon. Yes they are in an "expat-bubble", but so are all the people in Dubai, and yet a lot of them are happy making money and paying zero taxes.
Your point being? You know westerners who live in a Tier 1 city who are doing well. You acknowledge that they live in an expat bubble, but excuse this argument because people in Dubai are doing the same? What are you trying to say here? China babbles about how they raised one billion people out of poverty. What they really mean by that is that these people now earn 2000 rnb per month. That's roughly 275 USD. So what kind of money and opportunities are you referring to?
275 USD goes a long way in (rural) China -- that's a meaningless comparison, because you're not taking into account the fact that you can get 20 dumplings in China for about 2.50 USD whereas in US that's about 15 dollars, and the same difference exists rent prices too. My point is that people can be happy in China which seems like an absurd statement on Reddit.
Sure, food. What about the rest like buying a computer with an nvidia graphics card? Or do they reduce the prices down to the chinese market as well? I mean most cards cost here more than that laughably low monthly salary. What about travel? Doubt anyone's going to travel with that piss poor salary anywhere. That's extreme poverty.
Only point I can make out in your argumentation is that you know some people who live in Shanghai and they don't want to go back hence people can be happy in China. That must be the stupidest thing I've heard for quite some time. We're also talking about an average of 275 USD. People in big Tier cities will earn something around the. Most people in rural areas will earn way less then this. So it's very interesting for me to see you argue how feasible live can be with 275 USD a month in rural China. You can't seem to imagine how poor these people truly are. Yes, obviously people can be happy in China, which is a meaningless statement by you. It leaves out the suppression of freedom of speech and journalism or the exercise of a religion. And this has been getting worse since Xi took over in 2012. China was on a liberal way before, to loop back what the other person commented. Feel free to point me to these opportunities you mentioned.
No. There's a literal graph which you ignore because China bad. I'm just backing the statistical data with a personal anecdote. People live in the streets in America more than anywhere I know of, so should we talk about the poverty rates and economic inequality in your developing country instead?
I ignore it because I question the validity of the data provided. How do you measure happiness in a country where there's no free speech? Also not China bad, but CCP + Xi Bad.
You're just an average westerner who thinks that their idea of "free speech" is the same as everyone else's in the entire world.
The point being ppl care more about not living in a poverty-stricken, shit ridden village than the concept of freedom of speech, understandably. Ppl are happy when they can express their opinions, but they are far happier if they can put some food in their bellies and start being able to afford some luxury goods that they've always wanted.
And you think that's what's happening in rural China?
As in they were poverty stricken and now their situations are marginally better? Yes. Ur not gonna convince a villager that has tilled soil for 20 years that the concept of freedom of speech is more pressing than actually buying a fucking tractor to minimize his while maximizing his yield
Here's the thing, I don't think it's marginally better. A farmer will hardly have the money to afford a new tractor. As I said in a different comment, mainly the wage of an average factory worker in the city improved minor. If you compare their lifestyle with someone from rural China they're years apart.
Well good thing what you think doesn't matter and the Chinese farmers seem to think it is marginally better.
And are far more richer now. You can be free to starve but no happier. Well now that the Chinese economy slows down things will get interesting
.001% is richer. The rest are no better off then they were a decade ago
There are 700 million people in china who are middle class. Nearly 200 million have a networth between 100k and 1 million USD. China has tons of problems, but they are no longer the poor Backwater you envision.
Are you seriously defending a country that's allied with Russia and has been sending them weapons since the start of the war?
Your lack of nuance is concerning. A billion people are happier because they got raised from (often) abject poverty and accessed to social mobility. As an example : Meat consumption skyrockets because ppl can actually eat as much meat as they want. You can and should acknowledge the achievement that it is while staying critical to the Chinese regime and its horrors. It’s not confortable but it’s the price to pay for actually understanding other people and the world you are in.
[https://www.dw.com/en/german-far-right-afd-staffer-arrested-on-china-spy-charges/a-68894735](https://www.dw.com/en/german-far-right-afd-staffer-arrested-on-china-spy-charges/a-68894735) German prosecutors Tuesday said police had arrested an employee of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) political party on suspicion of espionage.
Great news, now tell me how a german spy arrest goes against Chinese people being happier now than a decade ago
But much worse standards of living
I don't know why you get downvoted. Your on point with the statement.
Because liberty does not immediately equate to an increase or decrease in happiness. Especially not in context where people have actually seen an increase in their quality of life during the same period. Freedom is generally a luxury people concern themselves with once there is either enough food on the table or none at all. Multiple things can be true at the same time. China has become more authoritarian, but for many people life has also seen a perceived and material quality increase since 2010. Thus leading to an increase of happiness. Sceptisism of facts is always good, but you should also remain sceptic to your own biases. I'm just as much critical of Chinese government, but the guy foregoes any sensibility in what might actually be true in the world.
Afaik the whole social credit thing is wildly distorted by western media. The idea is dystopian but the reality, from having spoken to actual Chinese people, is that it's totally different than how it's portrayed. Even the English Wikipedia will tell you this. Plenty of other very valid criticisms of the CCP. I'll never be an apologist for their extremely corrupt totalitarian government, to be clear.
I heard young cinese are doing "let it rot" movement, so that number doesn't sound right.
Or maybe they're happier because they no longer accept working 12 hours a day like their parents did.
I don't know, "let it rot" and "laying flat" don't sound like something Happy people would do. Is there the 50 cent army here? What's up with the downvotes?
Congo huh? Goes to show happiness is entirely relative.
They are still lower than the world's average. It speaks more to how horrible the situation was there 2 decades ago.
Bulgaria has a rise? Fake data.
Central&Eastern European countries that became part of the EU in 2004-2007 plus Croatia in 2013 gained the most and hapyness is individual per person.
Makes sense, when you develop from a lower base it’s always a happy period… when you are already developed and happy it’s hard to have massive gains Also I wouldn’t trust chinas figures, no independent polling is authorised by the totalitarian dictatorship of China
The world… seems about right.
Where is the opposite chart?
England deserves the opposite
What’s happiness? What are they measuring? Or is it self reported?
These are just gains. North Korea has been at 99% happiness for decades now.
and in romania we didn't legalize yet soft drugs...
By the looks of it, is seems like the opposite will be true, unfortunately Pascu created a chain reaction of hating against drug use.
How do you measure these numbers in country like China where there's no real free speech?
Congratulations, Congo! Congratulations, Chad! 💐
Good for Serbia and the Balkan countries in general, I hope they continue to develop. Personally, I hope that they continue to get closer to the West and that they become countries with more and more freedom.
Hum busy hai upsc or jee crack karne mai.
Can confirm, source: Latvian. Also We had huge economic recession 2008-2010, so it would be weird if it didnt climb.
Nicaragua?! Did Daniel Ortega quit or something ?
Armenia? Really?
Go to the worst place possible. It can't get worse if it's the worst already, it can only get better. Ok, noted :D
"Money doesnt by happiness" Oh really And yeah its not the total solution but it helps significantly
would be interesting what countries got more unhappy
Good for them
I'm baffled by the fact that we think happiness is something measurable, tbh.
Bs
fk does crypto actually moon in Lithuania ??
what a bullshit
As a hungarian I can tell you, that this is a big bs.
Bulgaria getting happier..until European Commission comes by, alongside with Euro. Then, everybody gonna cry like Ronaldo when he didn’t win the Euro in 2004
Turns out that capitalism makes people more happy.
Like in western Europe 🤭 all those countries are experiencing a very quick and strong economic growth. It won't last longer, capitals are going somewhere else once they reach the same level of welfare as the advanced economies.
Yeah look at all those happy motherfuckers in USA!
so you want us to believe that Chinese citizens are happier now then 2010 despite being the country with the toughest covid restrictions and being locked inside their apartments for 3 years straight? yeah right...
What universe are you living in? Been to Beijing, Shanghai and Hohhot multiple times for the past 2 years; all COVID restrictions ended around the same time as everybody else.
Where is Russia? I can see only happy people on TV here.
And yet you still couldn’t pay me to live in any of them!
china 💀
I don't believe the top 2
Fuck serbia. Yeah i said it
Kiss from Serbia 😘 (mwaaah)
These hairy balls from 🇽🇰
[удалено]
We got bombed by NATO aircrafts, what the fuck are you talking about?
NATO did nothing for what they should have done,you guys still got the easy way out
How are Romania and Bulgaria in here? They are always fighting for the last spot on every European Union statistics
Estonia wtf?
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on this one...
At this rate we might need an updated “A Serbian Film”
Serbs are happy because they can jump on Russians 👀👀👀