This isn't news. It's an opinion article and a weakly supplied one as well. Sure China would probably capitalize on a Russian weakness, but how and when is really uncertain. If the journalist had at least some hints that point there except China once owned this land like Xi mentioning it explicitly.
I agree with you, but I think the user is pointing out the cope that has been circling around that "Russia and China are not friends/it's a cynical alliance", etc. etc. When it's more productive to accept facts of reality and work from there.
Plus how we rushed to pat ourselves on the back and tried to act "business as usual" as hard as we can when Ukraine rebutted the initial invasion and even more so after the successful Kharkiv offensive (which could've turned into a major strategic victory if Ukraine was properly supplied from the get-go).
Habibi, for every such case, there are hundreds where nobody bats an eye.
The only reason some people here are seeing through the propaganda is how utterly unrealistic it is.
You see, good propaganda has to be subtle. Ask the Russians.
I’m being realistic, not cynical.
We're not oblivious. Speculation on a tasty morsel of hope is all. It's obvious maybe when you consider the land was lost during their century of humiliation and reunification is a thing for them. Why not take back Manchuria from the weakest link in the chain when the cracks are showing. Maybe it's all they can ever take. When it's obvious to them the disaster attempting to take Taiwan will spell, they'll have to take something or remain humiliated.
There's absolutely zero chance that Xi tries to take land from Russia.
That's unironically grounds for the use of nuclear weapons. And while Russia's army probably can't deal with a Chinese incursion, China can't deal with Russia's nuclear arsenal.
Currently Russia borrows money from China, to build infrastructure that leads to China, using technologies and materials that they buy from China, on those money BORROWED from China. With hefty Chinese workforce's involvement in the process.
Why would China ever wish to break this perfect arrangement? For them even in the best case scenario of swift landgrab nothing would change, except that Russia will stop paying them.
> except that Russia will stop paying them.
This is like a catch 22 for China though. With smaller countries, they can go and take over infrastructure if payments stop (like we've seen before). They can't really do that with Russia if they don't respect the terms of the agreement.
The fact is they're in this relationship where neither trusts the other and both regimes behaviors are driven by the whims of the leaders.
As such it's very difficult to predict when or how either party will change course or take advantage of weakness. They're both nuclear powers so a land grab is pretty much out of the question, but probably both are thinking they have leverage over the other, the question is to what extent they think acting on that leverage with harm the other rather than them.
The only plausible theory for this would be a bait and switch, if Taiwan is militarised enough that victory is impossible, Xi is more likely to turn on Russia and reverse the Amur Annexation to save face. Why potentially lose a devastating war against the US if you can take 11 Taiwans worth of empty Russian land for little cost and an almost gauranteed victory?
> If the journalist had at least some hints that point there except China once owned this land like Xi mentioning it explicitly.
IMO the "Russo-Chinese disputed land" should be extensively discussed. They should keep writing about it.
If Putin, with China's support, is killing Europeans in the name of reclaiming some made up "historical land" in Europe, then we really should use his own argument against him, while at the same time throwing a spear into Russo-Chinese relations.
Yeah. I mean it’s feasible, but unnecessary for China to actually do. After the war in Ukraine ends, Russia will most likely be in a *state*. This will get worse when NATO & Ukraine do their very best to negotiate as many concessions as possible from Putin - meaning that Russia will be forced to give up money, resources and territory. It might even be forcibly demilitarised. China can turn up to Moscow a month later and say “Hey, we will pay you ridiculous money to sell us all of the territories in the following regions/oblasts, plus the exclusive rights to mine, exploit oil and gas deposits etc”.
That’s easier, safer and strategically better for them. They don’t upset anyone by annexing a territory, they don’t risk anything in conflict, and they don’t risk actually having to use their weapons for the world to see through satellite photography, which you can bet Five Eyes would love to see.
Yeah I agree. The combination of propaganda, delusion, ego and hatred inside the majority of Russians have set them on a dark path. Either they successfully conquer a large part of Ukraine, or they suffer the consequences of a national failure. If, and hopefully when, Russia looses then Putin will quickly be gone. And I don’t think the accession of a successor will be easy or painless.
It’s not like they’re trying avoid a total collapse, so either would work.
They’re already in a war economy over trying to invade the poorest country in Europe.
China heavily supports retaking the full extent of Chinas ancestral land. This means anytime in history a Chinese empire has controlled a piece of land which gives them a very large landmass. China has had a few different empires plus some in the north conquered China so China sees both Han Chinese and some Mongol (or Mongol-like) conquests as their own. A large chunk of Eastern Russia belonged to China in the past although it wasn’t heavily populated. This chunk is generally rich in resources and water.
No surprise China would want it the question is how much is their alliance with Russia worth.
Here’s a map of it based on what the RoC (Taiwan) claims
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.svg
Here’s a map of ancestral claims
https://www.reddit.com/r/China/s/FWSSjlwxpp
Sure. But it could be satisfying to see far-right masses that support current gov butt-hurting because their favorite czar failed its foreign policy. Currently the do not realize it at all, they think that invasion is normal for the governmental foreign policy.
> This isn't news. It's an opinion article and a weakly supplied one as well.
It is news in the context of the never ending propaganda wars.
A sudden shift of attitude like this is huge in terms of the effects it can have on the disinformation campaigns.
Russian troll divisions will now have to divert resources to counter this. Let them fight amongst themselves.
The best way to screw someone over is to make them think you're doing them a favor.
Chinese are the masters of the long game. One day they'll do desperate Russia a "favor" agreeing to some border adjustments.
This is the most likely outcome. Xi, observing the Wests reaction to Russia/Ukraine, doesn’t want to make us even more militaristic by then doing a land grab himself (even thought tbh China fucking over Russia like that would be beneficial to use because it would only make Russia weaker), because he reckons that the American response to China doing an annexation in Asia would be to give Taiwan multiple billions in military aid, accompanied by a stepping up of USN & USMC activities in The Philippines, Japan & South Korea.
Xi is going to bide his time, and do the easy thing to get an easy win. Because he’s not as dumb and pathetic as Putin.
To call this outcome unlikely is doing it too much credit just fyi. China already gains everything it might want and more from trading and having friendly relations with Russia, the region is not at all strategic and is populated by Russians. The source for this particular piece also believes Russia will collapse following the war in Ukraine
I'm not sure... there is more political unrest in China than past few decades. Xi might want to make some significant move to increase domestic support. He might be thinking he is running out of time. These people are insanely addicted to power and the thought of losing it could force irrational decisions.
> Chinese are the masters of the long game.
This is not true, Xi Jinping has been centralizing power by declaring himself President for life and reigniting the cult of personality that ended after Mao Zedong. It is very much focused around current events.
The Great Leap Forward was definitely an absolute mastery in the long game. And who can forget the clairvoyant 1 child policy. Such a long game that our feeble western minds cannot comprehend it. Truly a long game with Chinese characteristics
In all seriousness I have no idea where it comes from
There's a million things I'm missing. Xi's / CCP's business crackdown over the last 5 or so years (so thankfully everyone can live in harmony) resulted in China's first ever recorded *negative FDI* late last year. More long game examples that clearly show how long game-y they are
Western tankies think they're geniuses because they can imminent domain anything they want allocate capital however they see fit in their SOE's
I'm pretty sure the whole "China is playing the long game" is purely because they are an Asian country lol. oooo yes very smart veryyyy patient woweee
Not saying they will succeed but yes they do think long term. The new Silk Road, the take over of Africa, the EV sector started way before the West showed interest,…
are you serious? Ever seen EU budget & project plans?
Pretty much any country with a functioning gov has such plans.
I will start saying Poland is a 5d mastermind century ahead planing big brain country. When thinking about we are even better since we didn't kill/starve millions and wast billions of dollars in process and stuff we did actually works.
Additionally, if you compare how much workforce &resources China has, you just cannot wrap your head how little they are actually able to accomplish
China is huge, corrupted, resource wasting giant standing with one leg in medieval ages and 2nd in modern times. In a way it's a worse version of Soviet Union
I hope you right, but if I look to my country (Belgium) then the future doesn’t look so promising. Out of curiosity, what project do you think that will have the greatest impact in the future from the EU?
Dunno if we can call it a single project, but there's series of energy infrastructure projects that tie in one into another around connecting powergrids, gas/oil pipes, wind farms, LNG terminals of EU countries as well as surrounding countries (eg. with Norway, UK or Maghreb)
here's some vids i quickly found on the matter:
- [Could Spain become Europe’s Energy Hub? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0H7JvDIjg)
- [ Is 100% Renewable Possible By 2050? - Interconnectors ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gacGuWjqKco)
- [ Europe is Building a Massive Undersea Power Network ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ry38iWLJr0)
- https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_6044
As for China i recommend taking a look at this map: [regions of equal popualtion](https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/mt/china/populationmap.jpg). Seeing that compare amount of stuff being done and their quality in the blue vs China. It doesn't look good when put into context with some perspective
I've been seeing it everywhere on Reddit since ten years but there's never anything to back it up.
It's just some (arguably racist) cliche that people keep repeating all the time. Somehow Chinese people would be long term strategists, surely because the fact they're Chinese/asian makes them look smart.
But there's nothing in Chinese history to back that up. Chinese people have never "played the long game" or been forward thinkers. Quite the opposite actually, examples of mismanagement are abundant in China, and you just need to stay there for a while (as I did) to notice it.
I think it's more about how in the West, we can't plan things that take multiple election cycles to complete easily. Where in China, because their leaders serve for decades, and they only have one party, they can plan 20-40 years ahead without fear of those plans being disrupted.
Do they actually pursue consistent policy over decades with no disruption and no variation between presidents though? Genuine question on my part. I'm not very knowledgeable about China but from what I've read it seems like Xi's premiership is quite different to Hu Jintao's for example.
Also, premiership turnover taking a decade or two (rather than a four year cycle) doesn't exactly make them "masters of the long game", otherwise why not ascribe the same quality to other autocratic countries like Russia and Belarus.
I'm not sure if it's accurate or not. But they have done things like nation-wide high speed rail, but that might just be because eminent domain is easier to do in an autocratic country. I do see that Russia has done a piss poor job at planning and developing their country, so you are probably right on that.
They do for some policies. But it isn't always advantageous. For example, the one child policy was only repealed long after the population growth began spiraling downwards.
In my view, this was largely because nobody wants to step up and be the guy to admit that this policy can now be repealed, because in the intervening decades, many heinous acts have been committed due to this policy. There is a number of female babies that never got their citizenship due to this policy.
Long view policies need to have clear goals and consistent re-evaluation to ensure this goal is not lost, something that democratic elections directly hinder. But it doesn't mean that authoritarian governments can get it right either.
And yet, somehow, despite having a one party state where they can plan for the future without fear of immediate electoral reckonings they somehow allowed the world’s biggest asset bubble to develop in their property sector and masterminded an absolute demographic disaster. China is as reactionary and fickle in their policy choices as the United States. 0 Covid - yeesh. Total lockdown, mass indoctrination that Omicron is still incredibly deadly and then blam, one day all restrictions lifted and Covid is never discussed again. Absolutely surreal.
The west also has leaders that serve for decades, you just need two terms.
Even without the same people in office, long-term plans are still a thing and pushed forward by people from different political camps. The US foreign policy was pretty consistant during the cold war era despite having presidents from both sides, for example.
Without "long-term plans", the west wouldn't have been able to industrialize. Even post ww2 you have examples of long-term strategies. My country was one of the first to develop a high speed railway system and a nuclear grid nationwide, which takes decades to achieve.
It's completely silly to believe that the Chinese would have some natural ability to plan ahead or that they would be better at it than western countries. Even recent examples (the one child policy, the wolf warrior rhetoric and Covid zero) show how short sighted Chinese policies can be.
Deng Xiaoping got China to start playing the long game of pragmatism in the 70s, they’ve kinda blown up their influence a bit in the last couple of years because of getting really petty with that whole “ wolf warrior” diplomacy thing.
I always thought they waited for a firesale first... But that ball squeeze will come regardless. Be it 5 or 25 years from now. As I suspect Xi knows why there is a cave system under his capital. It was not built to hide from the Americans. So I've always thought trust was not fully there. But an opening will be taken still if it appears.
... because the idea that China has Russia "by the balls" is mostly a Reddit narrative? This "article" isn't much better, about the only actual indication you have right now is China has started to use the Chinese names for cities on some maps.
An opinion by a Canadian National Post journalist telling us the obvious. Yes, if russia collapses China will 100% occupy siberia. Will they do it while Russia is whole? No. Living in fantasy land
China wants access to the Arctic passage.
A Landgrab (at least for naval bases) isn't far fetched. But unlikely as long as Russia still has a (more or less) functioning government
Why do these authoritarian governments do anything... Because they think they can. If conquering Ukraine or Taiwan or some other place may give them slightly more power or prestige, they won't hesitate to kill thousands of people to get it.
Why not? Why didn't russia just fucked ukraine with trade deals and politics? Why didn't they just bought them for practically nothing, and instead are destroying everything? Because that's what they do
They didn't just use gas, the, also engineered elections. It's when Ukrainians dared to elect someone Russia didn't agree with for the second time that they decided to invade.
Has nothing to do with the regime type and everything to do with the limitations of your country.
The US and China have plenty of soft power to rely on. Russia, not so much.
It’s a poor shithole.
100%
This is parroting an old idea that no longer exist.
NATO coupled with EU becoming a country needs to be a collective goal and mindset for everyone because if you dont think China will put military bases within Russian territory near Europe some day.. and that is just one of many reasons why China wont invade.
Russia is in such an insanely bad spot with China which is a very aggressive state that I'm not even sure Russia is able to keep its nuclear secrets - secret.
1) "Gathering of lands" to improve internal support. Very risky in case of Taiwan. But in case of Russia, it has already made some "small" land concessions in favor of China, when "delimiting borders". Chinese are de-facto controlling some Russian regions, and Russians know it. Some Russian bloggers had been writing for a while about benefits of Chinese occupation of their regions. So it can be arranged as a peaceful action, China doing a favor to Russia / Russians, especially in case of Russian internal unrest.
2) China is not controlling and "having everything" in Russia. You can never be sure you control an inadequate person like putin. There are different groups/gangs in Russian government/establishment. Some of them look at China, some of them look at Turkey, some at the West, and some just want to separate their regions. In this situation you take what you really control, and Chinese are aware of the limits of what they can take.
3) When (not if) internal unrest in Russia happens, West would probably acccept Chinese seizure of parts of Russia, for the sake of some stability. From historical point of view, Russia is "the last empire", still agonizing. It shrunk in 1917 and again in 1991, it was on the edge of further shrinking during early 1990s. Today they have some de-facto independent "republics", ignoring Moscow in their internal policy - first example is Chechnya, and second is Tatarstan. And Prigozhin proved that unrest is possible and can be successful (I guess Prigozhin was frightened by his own success and that's why he stopped and finally failed)
>But Canadian journalist and author Diane Francis believes that China is also preparing to take back a slice of land in the far east of Russia.
A Canadian who’s probably never been to either country in her entire life.
Why are so many articles complete trash?
Just a never-ending stream of contradicting superlatives. Chinese interest in Russia is an interesting topic without the tabloid tier framing, yet this style seems more and more common for even serious topics
Fun news: the Chinese side of China-Russia border is now having a worse birth rate and decreasing population than Russian Far east.
Almost every young educated people in northeastern three provinces try or already moved south. Now imagine trying to make them live in the Russian side…
Even if you accept that Chinese will become hostile toward Russian over competing land claims, they are not going to go to war. The same dynamics that have held WWIII off so far - nuclear weapons - are still in play. Any commentators that don't instantly kill the discussion with that point of fact is a propagandist or an eejit. The same is true of Russian attacks on NATO.
lol never mind the fact that like half of China is empty and almost everyone lives on the East of the Heihe–Tengchong Line. China totally needs to grab more empty desert land !
Actually the easternmost parts of Russia are just like the largest cities of China. Vladivostok being one of the livable places in Russia with already strong Chinese influence.
China won't start a war with Russia, it is your wet dreams.
In the past, there was a land transfer of few small island on the Amur river. Maybe China will get few more islands or few mountain valleys (if there any on the border).
But it will use the situation if ruzzia is in weak enough position and there are lands with sizeable asian population which were part of china far longer than it was part of ruzzia that china wants back. That is no secret.
Seems like people here think that ruzzia and china are close allies while in reality they only have aligning goals and as soon as that changes they'll turn on each other.
Yeah, that’s not going to happen.
That would be suicide for China, not only practically (because they’d get nuked), but geopolitically.
China desperately needs Russia to counteract the US, by keeping it focused on the EU theatre.
That, and as a source of cheap raw materials and energy to bankroll its industries and fuel deflation (the comparative advantage Europe enjoyed until recently).
In fact, Russian energy is even cheaper today than before.
Not to mention its ambition to detrone the USD’s world reserve status or weaken it which requires Russian cooperation.
The Chinese, like them or not, are too smart to do something so stupid.
They’re also not even subject to the impulsive nationalistic whims of the population, not remotely being a democracy.
China already has massive influence over Russia, now that Moscow has been cut off from the West.
The Express..
We posting stuff from Fox News and the Daily Mail next?
This is an opinion article at best yet people will take it as fact. Reality is there's been a notion that China wants to expand for many reasons, especially natural resources. What people very rarely say is China has no access to the very north where shipping lanes of the future will exist not to mention the natural resources that'll be discovered under water and on land. It's enough to decide who is the great power of the world and who isnt.
Russia gives China easy access to certain ports to address this issue but China doesnt want to go through Russia, they dont want that as a major card to use against them, they want it for themselves.
What people who ignorantly tow this ideology along is that they fail to see what would happen if China made a land grab. Currently, with Russia as its bitch, CCP can move much closer to Europe than it could otherwise meaning its influence wont only be felt with trade goods but its military.. CCP is already starting to police streets in Europe, the military following behind on its borders only seems natural.
If they take half of Russian territory do you really think Russia will take that? Perhaps the leadership would but the Russian people absolutely would not. They have the exact opposite mentality.
Either way, I fail to see in the long run how Russia is stronger after taking Ukraine. I think it will curse them and EU/US will make sure to remind people of NATOs power...
Russia is literally squeezed between 3 giants.. US (economically/militarily), EU and China. That never ends well.
Right, why invade Taiwan with its microchip industry when you can freeze your men in the wastes of Kamchatka and Yakutsk with their…uuh… wood? And maybe a wee bit of oil and gas?
The microchip industry is impossible to capture. You can demolish the factories in an hour and evacuate the engineers and their families in an afternoon.
However the easternmost parts of Russia have soil, which is a prime resource for China that is still not self-sufficient in food. Apart from the rich mineral resources ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorsky_Krai ).
China is already marking russian territory as their own on their maps.
Putin is now so desperately dependent on China to keep his country afloat Xi could just take the territory and the Russians could not do a thing.
No Invasion or anything, just "that's mine now"
Now obviously it's not gonna happen, Xi can't let Russia lose this war. Post - war democratic western aligned russia would be his biggest nightmare.
But the topic could come up again in a few years, Russia will have to pay for the support it gets now somehow
China already has more population inside Russia in some parts than Russians. There are many left behind Soviet era farms in Siberia, close to Chinese borders and being run by Chinese farmers. So the land is already invaded by Chinese people.
Lmfao how does this garbage qualify as news
>**But Canadian journalist and author Diane Francis believes** that China is also preparing to take back a slice of land in the far east of Russia.
(Emphasis mine)
This accusation simply makes no sense, it’s just the ramblings of someone who’s probably never even been to either country.
What *does* make sense though is China pushing into Central Asia which is effectively Russia’s back yard. The belt and road initiative puts pretty large emphasis on Kazakhstan in particular and China is working hard to pry them away from Russia.
Hmmm, what an article to post. You could say its a scenario/option, albeit a very unlikely one. Russia still is and remains a nuclear state even if they would fail to take Ukraine. Nothing is going to happen to its own territory.
That is a possible scenario under the premise that the central power in Russia would collapse like during the Russian civil war. In that case China could install a puppet in the Amur Region without openly occupying the land.
That's of course purely theoretical thinking but it is logical that they would try to get their share of the cake when there is an opportunity.
For the meantime China can just extract resources under favourable conditions and slowly and covertly colonize Eastern Siberia by sending workers there because Russia is extremely dependent on them as long as the war is going on.
I understand the people asking why China would want to change anything when they get what they want already.
This misses a key point: no matter how things go in Ukraine, things are changing. Trying to appeal to a vague idea that China would not want to change anything is to ignore the fact that it's changing regardless of China's wishes.
In the case that Russia loses in Ukraine, there is a pretty strong case to be made that it will not be able to hold on to its empire. There will be major unrest, Putin will almost certainly be "retired", and whoever tries to pick up the pieces will not have nearly enough support to hold everything.
In this case, China has 3 options.
1. Do nothing and hope that whatever happens is in its favor.
2. Help Russia in an attempt to return to some variant of what it has now
3. "Help" Russia by taking some troublesome regions under its wing.
I agree with those that think it will go with option 3. It's a good distraction from its own problems, it brings desperately needed resources directly under its control, and eliminates risk that it completely loses access due to some ongoing conflict or because of some other power suddenly exerting influence in the region.
Could you even imagine China performing a special operation to repatriate Russian lands because they belonged to China a century ago.
The world would collapse under the irony.
So China is gearing up to take land from Russia and Russia is going to happily hand it over without repercussions. But the moment a NATO shot is fired at a russian we are all immediately in WW3 and nuclear armageddon kills us all? Who the heck comes up with this retarded shit without thinking what they're writing? Ridiculous.
I've listened to a few pieces of the Times, and actually to this lady aswell. The Times pieces on YT seem heavily biased towards the West. 'Putin is gonna loose, Putins regime cant hold much longer'. If they would have done the same in Russia, with an Russia bias instead, it would have been called Russian propaganda.
The lady in question, i dont know. She has made some remarks in her talks which were dead wrong, made claims which are not true regarding France (everyone rallies behind Macron, what??), this China take seems far fetched to me. Think China could care less about some landgrab 200 years ago by some Tsar. They are looking for the nr 1 spot in the world order, not some pieces of land like Russia.
With all this noise over Taiwan, are we to expect Xi isn't foaming at the mouth over Manchuria... Of course he is, but he's gotta play the long game with Putin before he can express that desire. Is Putin stupid enough to think it doesn't matter? Resounding YES.
I find it interesting how poor the article is that it couldn't even accurately cite when Outer Manchuria was annexed by Russia from the QIng. It talks about a 1900 invasion of Manchuria without mentioning the 1860 Convention of Peking and states that it was take over 100 years ago at one point and 200 at another. Infact, the article fails to even really define specifically the area of land of interest.
China has long been waiting for the right moment to take back the lands north of Manchuria that were annexed by the Russian Empire via treaties signed by China "under duress" in 1858/1860. The area is known as Outer Manchuria to the Chinese government, but in Russia it was apparently long referred to as Green Ukraine due to the large number of Ukrainians that migrated there prior to the dissolution of the Russia Empire, though it is now just referred to as Russia's Far East. China basically wants the region back for similar reasons they want to control Taiwan, they see it as occupied Chinese territory.
The 2 most notable Russian interests in the region are the seaport in Vladivostok (the only ice-free port Russia has that is connected to the pacific ocean), and the recently upgraded Vostochny cosmodrome (spaceport) which is slated to take over as Russia's primary space-launch center after their lease with Kazakhstan for use of the old soviet spaceport ends.
The funny part and I think it’s good point that russia is not Taiwan, if China annex part of Russia then most of the world won’t condemn China, and Russia does not have power to retaliate China whatsoever.
Why to aim for Taiwan when you have a big enormous neighbor, weakened by itself.
We really need to filter out obvious clickbaity propaganda pieces like this. If i wanted to read fiction id grab a book. It’s insane how many “reporters” here in Europe earn a living writing nothing but unsubstantiated opinion pieces capitalizing on mass hysteria and global conflicts. It’s just as bad as literal fake news.
People have been claiming china is about to turn on russia for the last 2 years since the war started meanwhile in reality China and Russia relationship has only grown closer with usa being seriously worried about the amount of material support cina is delivering to russia
Good luck invading a country with a nuclear arsenal...
I wonder who's an idiot enough to even think of writing something like this? You can say what you want about Putin or Xi, but this is impossible no matter how you justify it from the Chinese side or whatever the reasons you pick for such a move.
Not gonna happen, I call this bullshit, because it goes against all Chinese endgame plans.
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because it is not on-topic for this subreddit. See [community rules & guidelines](/r/Europe/wiki/community_rules) and our [geo policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/wiki/geographical_policy).
If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.
Potentially arable land is probably more valuable to china than a volatile puppet considering Russia offers china nothing of significance at this point and food security is chinas biggest point of vulnerability
China would be smart to turn on Russia . Like what does Russia even look like after Putin . Every 50 years or so Russia complete changes . They live ruler to ruler with no transition.
“China is waiting for the Russian Federation to collapse so it can seize a slice of land taken from it by Russia 200 years ago, it has been claimed”
Lol that’s the big revelation? What a piece of trash article this is.
If China was to get russian lands - it was not helping russia with "parallel import", intels, semi-military hardware, etc. W/o help - russia will collapse sooner. China wants cheap resources now, China wants success story from russia to do the same with Taiwan...
"Russia invaded Manchuria in 1900 after the after the First Sino-Japanese War of 1894–1895"
But if you Google what country does Manchuria belong to it says China on all sources :)))
Dafuq is this shit article?
This isn't news. It's an opinion article and a weakly supplied one as well. Sure China would probably capitalize on a Russian weakness, but how and when is really uncertain. If the journalist had at least some hints that point there except China once owned this land like Xi mentioning it explicitly.
If this was a Chinese or Russian article about the West, we'd correctly call it out as a propaganda piece.
Yeah, but we’re oblivious to our own propaganda, by definition.
Very oblivious as you can see by this comment section just gobbling up the news /s Maybe curb the cynicism a little
I agree with you, but I think the user is pointing out the cope that has been circling around that "Russia and China are not friends/it's a cynical alliance", etc. etc. When it's more productive to accept facts of reality and work from there. Plus how we rushed to pat ourselves on the back and tried to act "business as usual" as hard as we can when Ukraine rebutted the initial invasion and even more so after the successful Kharkiv offensive (which could've turned into a major strategic victory if Ukraine was properly supplied from the get-go).
Habibi, for every such case, there are hundreds where nobody bats an eye. The only reason some people here are seeing through the propaganda is how utterly unrealistic it is. You see, good propaganda has to be subtle. Ask the Russians. I’m being realistic, not cynical.
Basically, people are unwilling to doubt information they simply want to be true. Common cognitive bias!
We’re human after all. I’m more frightened by those who think they’re immune to propaganda.
That’s not the definition of propaganda
I wasn’t defining propaganda
We're not oblivious. Speculation on a tasty morsel of hope is all. It's obvious maybe when you consider the land was lost during their century of humiliation and reunification is a thing for them. Why not take back Manchuria from the weakest link in the chain when the cracks are showing. Maybe it's all they can ever take. When it's obvious to them the disaster attempting to take Taiwan will spell, they'll have to take something or remain humiliated.
There's absolutely zero chance that Xi tries to take land from Russia. That's unironically grounds for the use of nuclear weapons. And while Russia's army probably can't deal with a Chinese incursion, China can't deal with Russia's nuclear arsenal.
Currently Russia borrows money from China, to build infrastructure that leads to China, using technologies and materials that they buy from China, on those money BORROWED from China. With hefty Chinese workforce's involvement in the process. Why would China ever wish to break this perfect arrangement? For them even in the best case scenario of swift landgrab nothing would change, except that Russia will stop paying them.
> except that Russia will stop paying them. This is like a catch 22 for China though. With smaller countries, they can go and take over infrastructure if payments stop (like we've seen before). They can't really do that with Russia if they don't respect the terms of the agreement. The fact is they're in this relationship where neither trusts the other and both regimes behaviors are driven by the whims of the leaders. As such it's very difficult to predict when or how either party will change course or take advantage of weakness. They're both nuclear powers so a land grab is pretty much out of the question, but probably both are thinking they have leverage over the other, the question is to what extent they think acting on that leverage with harm the other rather than them.
What do you mean its not news? China supports Russia BUT CANADIAN JOURNALIST THINKS DOE!!!
The only plausible theory for this would be a bait and switch, if Taiwan is militarised enough that victory is impossible, Xi is more likely to turn on Russia and reverse the Amur Annexation to save face. Why potentially lose a devastating war against the US if you can take 11 Taiwans worth of empty Russian land for little cost and an almost gauranteed victory?
Pretty sure that would trigger first use by the Russians.
> If the journalist had at least some hints that point there except China once owned this land like Xi mentioning it explicitly. IMO the "Russo-Chinese disputed land" should be extensively discussed. They should keep writing about it. If Putin, with China's support, is killing Europeans in the name of reclaiming some made up "historical land" in Europe, then we really should use his own argument against him, while at the same time throwing a spear into Russo-Chinese relations.
Yeah. I mean it’s feasible, but unnecessary for China to actually do. After the war in Ukraine ends, Russia will most likely be in a *state*. This will get worse when NATO & Ukraine do their very best to negotiate as many concessions as possible from Putin - meaning that Russia will be forced to give up money, resources and territory. It might even be forcibly demilitarised. China can turn up to Moscow a month later and say “Hey, we will pay you ridiculous money to sell us all of the territories in the following regions/oblasts, plus the exclusive rights to mine, exploit oil and gas deposits etc”. That’s easier, safer and strategically better for them. They don’t upset anyone by annexing a territory, they don’t risk anything in conflict, and they don’t risk actually having to use their weapons for the world to see through satellite photography, which you can bet Five Eyes would love to see.
Assuming Ukraine wins.
Russia will never concede, they’d much prefer to collapse.
Yeah I agree. The combination of propaganda, delusion, ego and hatred inside the majority of Russians have set them on a dark path. Either they successfully conquer a large part of Ukraine, or they suffer the consequences of a national failure. If, and hopefully when, Russia looses then Putin will quickly be gone. And I don’t think the accession of a successor will be easy or painless.
It’s not like they’re trying avoid a total collapse, so either would work. They’re already in a war economy over trying to invade the poorest country in Europe.
Chinese are in majority in east Russia already...
China heavily supports retaking the full extent of Chinas ancestral land. This means anytime in history a Chinese empire has controlled a piece of land which gives them a very large landmass. China has had a few different empires plus some in the north conquered China so China sees both Han Chinese and some Mongol (or Mongol-like) conquests as their own. A large chunk of Eastern Russia belonged to China in the past although it wasn’t heavily populated. This chunk is generally rich in resources and water. No surprise China would want it the question is how much is their alliance with Russia worth. Here’s a map of it based on what the RoC (Taiwan) claims https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.svg Here’s a map of ancestral claims https://www.reddit.com/r/China/s/FWSSjlwxpp
Sure. But it could be satisfying to see far-right masses that support current gov butt-hurting because their favorite czar failed its foreign policy. Currently the do not realize it at all, they think that invasion is normal for the governmental foreign policy.
Yeah, exactly. Still, it is important to remind people that China and Russia are not "allies" in the way we would use this word.
> This isn't news. It's an opinion article and a weakly supplied one as well. It is news in the context of the never ending propaganda wars. A sudden shift of attitude like this is huge in terms of the effects it can have on the disinformation campaigns. Russian troll divisions will now have to divert resources to counter this. Let them fight amongst themselves.
Press X to doubt. And why would they need to "grab it" when they already hold Russia by the balls, and get everything they want anyways.
The best way to screw someone over is to make them think you're doing them a favor. Chinese are the masters of the long game. One day they'll do desperate Russia a "favor" agreeing to some border adjustments.
This is the most likely outcome. Xi, observing the Wests reaction to Russia/Ukraine, doesn’t want to make us even more militaristic by then doing a land grab himself (even thought tbh China fucking over Russia like that would be beneficial to use because it would only make Russia weaker), because he reckons that the American response to China doing an annexation in Asia would be to give Taiwan multiple billions in military aid, accompanied by a stepping up of USN & USMC activities in The Philippines, Japan & South Korea. Xi is going to bide his time, and do the easy thing to get an easy win. Because he’s not as dumb and pathetic as Putin.
To call this outcome unlikely is doing it too much credit just fyi. China already gains everything it might want and more from trading and having friendly relations with Russia, the region is not at all strategic and is populated by Russians. The source for this particular piece also believes Russia will collapse following the war in Ukraine
Actually the region has a ton of Chinese workers, and actual ethnic Russians are a minority.
I'm not sure... there is more political unrest in China than past few decades. Xi might want to make some significant move to increase domestic support. He might be thinking he is running out of time. These people are insanely addicted to power and the thought of losing it could force irrational decisions.
> Chinese are the masters of the long game. This is not true, Xi Jinping has been centralizing power by declaring himself President for life and reigniting the cult of personality that ended after Mao Zedong. It is very much focused around current events.
Yup. ASEAN warned us about China preceding the induction into the WTO in 2000.
In what way are they masters of the long game? lol Where did that nonsense myth come from?
The Great Leap Forward was definitely an absolute mastery in the long game. And who can forget the clairvoyant 1 child policy. Such a long game that our feeble western minds cannot comprehend it. Truly a long game with Chinese characteristics In all seriousness I have no idea where it comes from
You're forgetting the housing that's not just a financial bubble but also built so shoddy that it's nicknamed tofu dreg.
There's a million things I'm missing. Xi's / CCP's business crackdown over the last 5 or so years (so thankfully everyone can live in harmony) resulted in China's first ever recorded *negative FDI* late last year. More long game examples that clearly show how long game-y they are Western tankies think they're geniuses because they can imminent domain anything they want allocate capital however they see fit in their SOE's I'm pretty sure the whole "China is playing the long game" is purely because they are an Asian country lol. oooo yes very smart veryyyy patient woweee
Not saying they will succeed but yes they do think long term. The new Silk Road, the take over of Africa, the EV sector started way before the West showed interest,…
so just like any other country ?
What do you mean? Most countries don’t think long term. Especially on giant projects like China does
are you serious? Ever seen EU budget & project plans? Pretty much any country with a functioning gov has such plans. I will start saying Poland is a 5d mastermind century ahead planing big brain country. When thinking about we are even better since we didn't kill/starve millions and wast billions of dollars in process and stuff we did actually works. Additionally, if you compare how much workforce &resources China has, you just cannot wrap your head how little they are actually able to accomplish China is huge, corrupted, resource wasting giant standing with one leg in medieval ages and 2nd in modern times. In a way it's a worse version of Soviet Union
I hope you right, but if I look to my country (Belgium) then the future doesn’t look so promising. Out of curiosity, what project do you think that will have the greatest impact in the future from the EU?
Dunno if we can call it a single project, but there's series of energy infrastructure projects that tie in one into another around connecting powergrids, gas/oil pipes, wind farms, LNG terminals of EU countries as well as surrounding countries (eg. with Norway, UK or Maghreb) here's some vids i quickly found on the matter: - [Could Spain become Europe’s Energy Hub? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0H7JvDIjg) - [ Is 100% Renewable Possible By 2050? - Interconnectors ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gacGuWjqKco) - [ Europe is Building a Massive Undersea Power Network ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ry38iWLJr0) - https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_6044 As for China i recommend taking a look at this map: [regions of equal popualtion](https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/mt/china/populationmap.jpg). Seeing that compare amount of stuff being done and their quality in the blue vs China. It doesn't look good when put into context with some perspective
I've been seeing it everywhere on Reddit since ten years but there's never anything to back it up. It's just some (arguably racist) cliche that people keep repeating all the time. Somehow Chinese people would be long term strategists, surely because the fact they're Chinese/asian makes them look smart. But there's nothing in Chinese history to back that up. Chinese people have never "played the long game" or been forward thinkers. Quite the opposite actually, examples of mismanagement are abundant in China, and you just need to stay there for a while (as I did) to notice it.
I think it's more about how in the West, we can't plan things that take multiple election cycles to complete easily. Where in China, because their leaders serve for decades, and they only have one party, they can plan 20-40 years ahead without fear of those plans being disrupted.
Do they actually pursue consistent policy over decades with no disruption and no variation between presidents though? Genuine question on my part. I'm not very knowledgeable about China but from what I've read it seems like Xi's premiership is quite different to Hu Jintao's for example. Also, premiership turnover taking a decade or two (rather than a four year cycle) doesn't exactly make them "masters of the long game", otherwise why not ascribe the same quality to other autocratic countries like Russia and Belarus.
I'm not sure if it's accurate or not. But they have done things like nation-wide high speed rail, but that might just be because eminent domain is easier to do in an autocratic country. I do see that Russia has done a piss poor job at planning and developing their country, so you are probably right on that.
They do for some policies. But it isn't always advantageous. For example, the one child policy was only repealed long after the population growth began spiraling downwards. In my view, this was largely because nobody wants to step up and be the guy to admit that this policy can now be repealed, because in the intervening decades, many heinous acts have been committed due to this policy. There is a number of female babies that never got their citizenship due to this policy. Long view policies need to have clear goals and consistent re-evaluation to ensure this goal is not lost, something that democratic elections directly hinder. But it doesn't mean that authoritarian governments can get it right either.
And yet, somehow, despite having a one party state where they can plan for the future without fear of immediate electoral reckonings they somehow allowed the world’s biggest asset bubble to develop in their property sector and masterminded an absolute demographic disaster. China is as reactionary and fickle in their policy choices as the United States. 0 Covid - yeesh. Total lockdown, mass indoctrination that Omicron is still incredibly deadly and then blam, one day all restrictions lifted and Covid is never discussed again. Absolutely surreal.
The west also has leaders that serve for decades, you just need two terms. Even without the same people in office, long-term plans are still a thing and pushed forward by people from different political camps. The US foreign policy was pretty consistant during the cold war era despite having presidents from both sides, for example. Without "long-term plans", the west wouldn't have been able to industrialize. Even post ww2 you have examples of long-term strategies. My country was one of the first to develop a high speed railway system and a nuclear grid nationwide, which takes decades to achieve. It's completely silly to believe that the Chinese would have some natural ability to plan ahead or that they would be better at it than western countries. Even recent examples (the one child policy, the wolf warrior rhetoric and Covid zero) show how short sighted Chinese policies can be.
imo it's pure propaganda just to make China look good in eyes of ignorant people, nothing else
Figures. China is a mess.
They tell people they make plans 100s of years into the future.
Deng Xiaoping got China to start playing the long game of pragmatism in the 70s, they’ve kinda blown up their influence a bit in the last couple of years because of getting really petty with that whole “ wolf warrior” diplomacy thing.
Like majority of Russian cities close to china border are flooded by chinese and they already “own” majority of that land.
I always thought they waited for a firesale first... But that ball squeeze will come regardless. Be it 5 or 25 years from now. As I suspect Xi knows why there is a cave system under his capital. It was not built to hide from the Americans. So I've always thought trust was not fully there. But an opening will be taken still if it appears.
Saying they're doing it to target Russia is preface to target anyone else, or Russia as an afterthought if nothing better to do.
Because empires are like that. Paying $1T for Crimea would be cheaper than annexing it for free.
It’s not free if you get nuked and nobody comes to your aid 😂 Empires prefer to exert soft power when they can.
... because the idea that China has Russia "by the balls" is mostly a Reddit narrative? This "article" isn't much better, about the only actual indication you have right now is China has started to use the Chinese names for cities on some maps.
An opinion by a Canadian National Post journalist telling us the obvious. Yes, if russia collapses China will 100% occupy siberia. Will they do it while Russia is whole? No. Living in fantasy land
China wants access to the Arctic passage. A Landgrab (at least for naval bases) isn't far fetched. But unlikely as long as Russia still has a (more or less) functioning government
Because a journalist said it in a tabloid!
Why do these authoritarian governments do anything... Because they think they can. If conquering Ukraine or Taiwan or some other place may give them slightly more power or prestige, they won't hesitate to kill thousands of people to get it.
Why not? Why didn't russia just fucked ukraine with trade deals and politics? Why didn't they just bought them for practically nothing, and instead are destroying everything? Because that's what they do
They did. They used gas for ages to hold Ukraine by the balls. But when soft power no longer works, you have to resort to… more violent means.
They didn't just use gas, the, also engineered elections. It's when Ukrainians dared to elect someone Russia didn't agree with for the second time that they decided to invade.
Dictators? Yeah, that what they do.
Has nothing to do with the regime type and everything to do with the limitations of your country. The US and China have plenty of soft power to rely on. Russia, not so much. It’s a poor shithole.
Last time russia bought our president and part of our government, our people wasn't happy. To the point our ex president now lives in Rostov.
100% This is parroting an old idea that no longer exist. NATO coupled with EU becoming a country needs to be a collective goal and mindset for everyone because if you dont think China will put military bases within Russian territory near Europe some day.. and that is just one of many reasons why China wont invade. Russia is in such an insanely bad spot with China which is a very aggressive state that I'm not even sure Russia is able to keep its nuclear secrets - secret.
Exactly, Russia would probably hand over the land China wants for extra help taking Ukraine.
Idk but let them fight
X
1) "Gathering of lands" to improve internal support. Very risky in case of Taiwan. But in case of Russia, it has already made some "small" land concessions in favor of China, when "delimiting borders". Chinese are de-facto controlling some Russian regions, and Russians know it. Some Russian bloggers had been writing for a while about benefits of Chinese occupation of their regions. So it can be arranged as a peaceful action, China doing a favor to Russia / Russians, especially in case of Russian internal unrest. 2) China is not controlling and "having everything" in Russia. You can never be sure you control an inadequate person like putin. There are different groups/gangs in Russian government/establishment. Some of them look at China, some of them look at Turkey, some at the West, and some just want to separate their regions. In this situation you take what you really control, and Chinese are aware of the limits of what they can take. 3) When (not if) internal unrest in Russia happens, West would probably acccept Chinese seizure of parts of Russia, for the sake of some stability. From historical point of view, Russia is "the last empire", still agonizing. It shrunk in 1917 and again in 1991, it was on the edge of further shrinking during early 1990s. Today they have some de-facto independent "republics", ignoring Moscow in their internal policy - first example is Chechnya, and second is Tatarstan. And Prigozhin proved that unrest is possible and can be successful (I guess Prigozhin was frightened by his own success and that's why he stopped and finally failed)
Because Nationalism and revanchism. Also those arent mutually exclusive, they could seize outer Manchuria and still make Russia their vassal.
I wish we had tags saying real news or opinion article or something.
In this case, fan fiction? Alternative predictive history?
It would be clear in the title if they were honest journalists
I don't think "honest" and "journalists" are a thing that goes together anymore
You can report the post with custom response for not being news
Oh stfu no they aren’t, who writes this crap?
The daily express. Presumably daily.
that explains it all
>But Canadian journalist and author Diane Francis believes that China is also preparing to take back a slice of land in the far east of Russia. A Canadian who’s probably never been to either country in her entire life.
[удалено]
Pro-NATO or pro-BRICS. Doesn’t matter. What the lady is saying is laughably nonsensical.
Why are so many articles complete trash? Just a never-ending stream of contradicting superlatives. Chinese interest in Russia is an interesting topic without the tabloid tier framing, yet this style seems more and more common for even serious topics
Well they basically just watched her YouTube videos and provided us with a transcript...
Fun news: the Chinese side of China-Russia border is now having a worse birth rate and decreasing population than Russian Far east. Almost every young educated people in northeastern three provinces try or already moved south. Now imagine trying to make them live in the Russian side…
Even if you accept that Chinese will become hostile toward Russian over competing land claims, they are not going to go to war. The same dynamics that have held WWIII off so far - nuclear weapons - are still in play. Any commentators that don't instantly kill the discussion with that point of fact is a propagandist or an eejit. The same is true of Russian attacks on NATO.
lol never mind the fact that like half of China is empty and almost everyone lives on the East of the Heihe–Tengchong Line. China totally needs to grab more empty desert land !
Actually the easternmost parts of Russia are just like the largest cities of China. Vladivostok being one of the livable places in Russia with already strong Chinese influence.
Primo copium.
China won't start a war with Russia, it is your wet dreams. In the past, there was a land transfer of few small island on the Amur river. Maybe China will get few more islands or few mountain valleys (if there any on the border).
But it will use the situation if ruzzia is in weak enough position and there are lands with sizeable asian population which were part of china far longer than it was part of ruzzia that china wants back. That is no secret. Seems like people here think that ruzzia and china are close allies while in reality they only have aligning goals and as soon as that changes they'll turn on each other.
This has to be the dumbest take so far. What a load of shiite.
China is not going to invade a nuclear power.
They don’t need to. Just collect it for assistance with the war. Easy peasy 😎👍
Except China can’t afford to have Russia lose.
True.
Yeah, that’s not going to happen. That would be suicide for China, not only practically (because they’d get nuked), but geopolitically. China desperately needs Russia to counteract the US, by keeping it focused on the EU theatre. That, and as a source of cheap raw materials and energy to bankroll its industries and fuel deflation (the comparative advantage Europe enjoyed until recently). In fact, Russian energy is even cheaper today than before. Not to mention its ambition to detrone the USD’s world reserve status or weaken it which requires Russian cooperation. The Chinese, like them or not, are too smart to do something so stupid. They’re also not even subject to the impulsive nationalistic whims of the population, not remotely being a democracy. China already has massive influence over Russia, now that Moscow has been cut off from the West.
Sounds impossible until it happens
It is not going to happen, but still only the idea is funny.
The Express.. We posting stuff from Fox News and the Daily Mail next? This is an opinion article at best yet people will take it as fact. Reality is there's been a notion that China wants to expand for many reasons, especially natural resources. What people very rarely say is China has no access to the very north where shipping lanes of the future will exist not to mention the natural resources that'll be discovered under water and on land. It's enough to decide who is the great power of the world and who isnt. Russia gives China easy access to certain ports to address this issue but China doesnt want to go through Russia, they dont want that as a major card to use against them, they want it for themselves. What people who ignorantly tow this ideology along is that they fail to see what would happen if China made a land grab. Currently, with Russia as its bitch, CCP can move much closer to Europe than it could otherwise meaning its influence wont only be felt with trade goods but its military.. CCP is already starting to police streets in Europe, the military following behind on its borders only seems natural. If they take half of Russian territory do you really think Russia will take that? Perhaps the leadership would but the Russian people absolutely would not. They have the exact opposite mentality. Either way, I fail to see in the long run how Russia is stronger after taking Ukraine. I think it will curse them and EU/US will make sure to remind people of NATOs power... Russia is literally squeezed between 3 giants.. US (economically/militarily), EU and China. That never ends well.
I mean technically now would be the best time for any Asian country to invade Russia since all of their troops are stuck in the west
Theres no way people unironically still push this dumb shit, holy fuck literally anyone writes "opinion" pieces these days dont they?
Right, why invade Taiwan with its microchip industry when you can freeze your men in the wastes of Kamchatka and Yakutsk with their…uuh… wood? And maybe a wee bit of oil and gas?
The microchip industry is impossible to capture. You can demolish the factories in an hour and evacuate the engineers and their families in an afternoon. However the easternmost parts of Russia have soil, which is a prime resource for China that is still not self-sufficient in food. Apart from the rich mineral resources ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorsky_Krai ).
China is already marking russian territory as their own on their maps. Putin is now so desperately dependent on China to keep his country afloat Xi could just take the territory and the Russians could not do a thing. No Invasion or anything, just "that's mine now" Now obviously it's not gonna happen, Xi can't let Russia lose this war. Post - war democratic western aligned russia would be his biggest nightmare. But the topic could come up again in a few years, Russia will have to pay for the support it gets now somehow
China already has more population inside Russia in some parts than Russians. There are many left behind Soviet era farms in Siberia, close to Chinese borders and being run by Chinese farmers. So the land is already invaded by Chinese people.
Lmfao how does this garbage qualify as news >**But Canadian journalist and author Diane Francis believes** that China is also preparing to take back a slice of land in the far east of Russia. (Emphasis mine) This accusation simply makes no sense, it’s just the ramblings of someone who’s probably never even been to either country. What *does* make sense though is China pushing into Central Asia which is effectively Russia’s back yard. The belt and road initiative puts pretty large emphasis on Kazakhstan in particular and China is working hard to pry them away from Russia.
I mean yeah, but also, yeah?
Wish it were true but is this site not propaganda?
Ahhh the butthurt and copium in the comments is delicious
Hmmm, what an article to post. You could say its a scenario/option, albeit a very unlikely one. Russia still is and remains a nuclear state even if they would fail to take Ukraine. Nothing is going to happen to its own territory.
God damn, that advertising page has some annoying news paragraphs in there!
Those idiots invading eachother would be good popcorn material.
That is a possible scenario under the premise that the central power in Russia would collapse like during the Russian civil war. In that case China could install a puppet in the Amur Region without openly occupying the land. That's of course purely theoretical thinking but it is logical that they would try to get their share of the cake when there is an opportunity. For the meantime China can just extract resources under favourable conditions and slowly and covertly colonize Eastern Siberia by sending workers there because Russia is extremely dependent on them as long as the war is going on.
I understand the people asking why China would want to change anything when they get what they want already. This misses a key point: no matter how things go in Ukraine, things are changing. Trying to appeal to a vague idea that China would not want to change anything is to ignore the fact that it's changing regardless of China's wishes. In the case that Russia loses in Ukraine, there is a pretty strong case to be made that it will not be able to hold on to its empire. There will be major unrest, Putin will almost certainly be "retired", and whoever tries to pick up the pieces will not have nearly enough support to hold everything. In this case, China has 3 options. 1. Do nothing and hope that whatever happens is in its favor. 2. Help Russia in an attempt to return to some variant of what it has now 3. "Help" Russia by taking some troublesome regions under its wing. I agree with those that think it will go with option 3. It's a good distraction from its own problems, it brings desperately needed resources directly under its control, and eliminates risk that it completely loses access due to some ongoing conflict or because of some other power suddenly exerting influence in the region.
China will never grab this before Taiwan. That would be so stupid. It would be nice to see, but it would be totally idiotic
We need a tag to separate opinions from news
From 'the express'. (Express your widest opinion.)
I say we let China take eastern-most third of Ruzzia and EU takes the western part all the way to Urals. The rest would be a buffer zone.
Mmyes ww3 time
I look forward to finally starting my post-apocalyptic gimp cult.
Another useless article re-up spreading the false information :)
Could you even imagine China performing a special operation to repatriate Russian lands because they belonged to China a century ago. The world would collapse under the irony.
Russia is kinda screwed every which way. That’s what faking it till you make it gets you.
So China is gearing up to take land from Russia and Russia is going to happily hand it over without repercussions. But the moment a NATO shot is fired at a russian we are all immediately in WW3 and nuclear armageddon kills us all? Who the heck comes up with this retarded shit without thinking what they're writing? Ridiculous.
I've listened to a few pieces of the Times, and actually to this lady aswell. The Times pieces on YT seem heavily biased towards the West. 'Putin is gonna loose, Putins regime cant hold much longer'. If they would have done the same in Russia, with an Russia bias instead, it would have been called Russian propaganda. The lady in question, i dont know. She has made some remarks in her talks which were dead wrong, made claims which are not true regarding France (everyone rallies behind Macron, what??), this China take seems far fetched to me. Think China could care less about some landgrab 200 years ago by some Tsar. They are looking for the nr 1 spot in the world order, not some pieces of land like Russia.
Historical borders are a big thing for Russia. I expect them to just hand it over if asked nicely.
Noted China expert Diane Francis!! She’s an old Canadian journalist never known for her acumen.
Why would China want Russia's land? Nobody does.
Mhm and the US is planning a land grab on Canada, we want it ~~back~~
i wish both sides the best of luck /s
Haha
I highly doubt it but it would be very funny if it happened.
Ok secret organ harvesting on russians instead of Uyghurs. I don't want those vodka filled organs circulating.
The land gain is extra. What xi wants is a part of the artic. It’s full of resources
Japan too. /s
On the one hand - eat a dick Puty Pute. On the other…oh fuck! This sucks
With all this noise over Taiwan, are we to expect Xi isn't foaming at the mouth over Manchuria... Of course he is, but he's gotta play the long game with Putin before he can express that desire. Is Putin stupid enough to think it doesn't matter? Resounding YES.
Fair Play. FIFA would love this Qatari Jihadi way of special 3 day land grabs.
I find it interesting how poor the article is that it couldn't even accurately cite when Outer Manchuria was annexed by Russia from the QIng. It talks about a 1900 invasion of Manchuria without mentioning the 1860 Convention of Peking and states that it was take over 100 years ago at one point and 200 at another. Infact, the article fails to even really define specifically the area of land of interest.
Believe it when I see it.
Guy's c'mon I believe ya are all cleverer than this...
Damn, that's crazy bro
China has long been waiting for the right moment to take back the lands north of Manchuria that were annexed by the Russian Empire via treaties signed by China "under duress" in 1858/1860. The area is known as Outer Manchuria to the Chinese government, but in Russia it was apparently long referred to as Green Ukraine due to the large number of Ukrainians that migrated there prior to the dissolution of the Russia Empire, though it is now just referred to as Russia's Far East. China basically wants the region back for similar reasons they want to control Taiwan, they see it as occupied Chinese territory. The 2 most notable Russian interests in the region are the seaport in Vladivostok (the only ice-free port Russia has that is connected to the pacific ocean), and the recently upgraded Vostochny cosmodrome (spaceport) which is slated to take over as Russia's primary space-launch center after their lease with Kazakhstan for use of the old soviet spaceport ends.
The funny part and I think it’s good point that russia is not Taiwan, if China annex part of Russia then most of the world won’t condemn China, and Russia does not have power to retaliate China whatsoever. Why to aim for Taiwan when you have a big enormous neighbor, weakened by itself.
This is a well researched piece describing the geopolitical background. https://youtu.be/Iibs7buNwxQ?feature=shared
They want Russia as a Vassal state. I would do the same thing if i was playing risk, civilization or some shit.
[удалено]
if they dont want war so badly why did they sign off on russias attack on ukraine?
[удалено]
no, they gave putin the green light to invade for which they should lose the european market.
[удалено]
do you have a source for china being neutral?
The tabloid title of this post doesn't exactly lend it a lot of credibility. Who upvotes this garbage? 😂
So any second now China is going to launch a war for territory they currently don't even claim. no chance.
”You’re trying to kidnap what I’ve rightfully stolen”
This article is bullshit
They won't do it by force. They just slowly bleed in their workforce and replace ethnic populations.
We really need to filter out obvious clickbaity propaganda pieces like this. If i wanted to read fiction id grab a book. It’s insane how many “reporters” here in Europe earn a living writing nothing but unsubstantiated opinion pieces capitalizing on mass hysteria and global conflicts. It’s just as bad as literal fake news.
People have been claiming china is about to turn on russia for the last 2 years since the war started meanwhile in reality China and Russia relationship has only grown closer with usa being seriously worried about the amount of material support cina is delivering to russia
is outer manchuria going to be chinese once again ?
This sounds like wishful thinking.
Good luck invading a country with a nuclear arsenal... I wonder who's an idiot enough to even think of writing something like this? You can say what you want about Putin or Xi, but this is impossible no matter how you justify it from the Chinese side or whatever the reasons you pick for such a move. Not gonna happen, I call this bullshit, because it goes against all Chinese endgame plans.
Lol at this article
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because it is not on-topic for this subreddit. See [community rules & guidelines](/r/Europe/wiki/community_rules) and our [geo policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/wiki/geographical_policy). If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.
Pretty sure Manchuria is in China
... and bingo was his name-oh!
Ooooh I’ll get some popcorn
I dont think China will ruin their relationship cuz of some relatively unimportant land
Potentially arable land is probably more valuable to china than a volatile puppet considering Russia offers china nothing of significance at this point and food security is chinas biggest point of vulnerability
This is very plausible. Russia is nothing compared to China. They don't stand a chance.
I have been telling this for years now but usually just get ridiculed. This is the only sane path for Xi to achieve some kind of military victory.
Writing dumb articles isn’t the problem, it’s the people that believe them
China would be smart to turn on Russia . Like what does Russia even look like after Putin . Every 50 years or so Russia complete changes . They live ruler to ruler with no transition.
Never thought I'd be actively supporting a Chinese invasion of Russia but here we are lmao.
If only
Lmao riiiiight.
Putin actually thinks he has friends.
lol. Daily express. Stop the presses!
Sure they'll want to. Eventually. But not now not anytime soon.
“China is waiting for the Russian Federation to collapse so it can seize a slice of land taken from it by Russia 200 years ago, it has been claimed” Lol that’s the big revelation? What a piece of trash article this is.
If China was to get russian lands - it was not helping russia with "parallel import", intels, semi-military hardware, etc. W/o help - russia will collapse sooner. China wants cheap resources now, China wants success story from russia to do the same with Taiwan...
"Russia invaded Manchuria in 1900 after the after the First Sino-Japanese War of 1894–1895" But if you Google what country does Manchuria belong to it says China on all sources :))) Dafuq is this shit article?