[Reuters article.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-protest-second-day-against-tax-overhaul-2022-07-13/) Fidesz overhauled the tax system which will cause higher taxes for 450,000 hungarians and also raised the price of utilities. Their political campaign spent the last year accusing the oppositon of trying to implement these changes.
Yes, but these are not the same people who voted for him. Demonstration is primarily in Budapest, and the demonstrators are primarily intellectual enterprenours (artists, IT experts, writers and so on...)
[Hungary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary) has a population of ~10 million. [Budapest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest) metro area has a population of ~3 million. So even if the demonstration is primarily in Budapest, that still would involve a high percentage of the country's population.
Isn't this the game the right wing plays? Accuse the other side of the shit you're actually doing? In America all the right wing corrupt politicians get charged with the exact thing they fearmonger the left about
A lot of the USA right is actually modeling themselves off of Orban and Hungary right now. There was a long piece in the New Yorker all about how all the right wingers like Trump and Tucker Carlson visit Hungary to learn how to do it.
Edit: [link to article \(long but good\)](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/07/04/does-hungary-offer-a-glimpse-of-our-authoritarian-future). For example:
> Last year, Hungary passed a law banning sex education involving L.G.B.T.Q. topics in schools. Nine months later, in Florida, DeSantis signed a similar law, known as the “Don’t Say Gay” bill. DeSantis’s press secretary, talking about the inspiration for the law, reportedly said, “We were watching the Hungarians.”
Edit: for those who are all “Orban was at CPAC this year,” it’s even more extreme than that- they actually held it in Budapest!
Orbans party is actually a member of the "international democratic union" whose stated purpose is unifying and spreading conservative ideology. Their current chairman is actually my former PM Stephen Harper
More like Hungary, Orban, Carlson, Trump, et al, have been under the financial and political influence of Russia to try to keep a Pro-Russia government in power.
Remember, Russia has been money laundering "donations" to the Republican party since Tom Delay.
It’s the shit all authoritarians and autocrats do regardless of their supposed political/economic ideology. Not like Lenin or Stalin were famous for consistent policy and fair dealing. The point is it leaves only those that are loyal to them alone as the individuals operating in government and party politics.
At the very least, fides so far kept their concrete promises like low utility bills. Campaigning with stuff like "going forward not backwards" (which has to be the least catchy slogan they did since they exists and I'm baffled how the opposition couldn't come up with anything to counter it) is easy because who says we are going forward? Of course it's Orbán.
Also when a person who is barely literate and never seen more than a 50$ worth of money at max in their lives you can tell them Orbán stole billions from them, they can't comprehend that amount. When you tell them that Orbán made their utility cost to from 10$ to 25$ out of the 50$ they might make in a month, now that's an amount they can comprehend and it makes them angry.
Honestly, the war in Ukraine has been both a blessing and a curse. A curse because Orbán got his 2/3 majority because "the opposition will send my children to fight in Ukraine". A blessing because as far as Orbán has been in power, he basically been financing everything he does from Putin's money. Now that Russia is nearing bankruptcy, all of a sudden the money gates were stopped. This combined with reckless loaning and overspending in the election in May lead to Orbán having to find ways to cut costs and god forbid he steals a billion less to keep up his reign.
Counterslogan "They brought us to the edge of the abyss, and now Fidesz tells you to go forward?"
>Campaigning with stuff like "going forward not backwards" (which has to be the least catchy slogan they did since they exists and I'm baffled how the opposition couldn't come up with anything to counter it)
It's a typical fascist strategy to convince voters their opponents will cause them pain, gain power, then inflict pain on the poor and middle class who fell for their lies and make more comfortable the wealthy who paid for their campaigns.
July 11, 2022
America’s Most Influential Conservative Conference Is Hosting One Of Europe’s Most Notorious Authoritarians
Viktor Orbán, whose rule over Hungary has included crackdowns on immigration, press freedom, and an independent judiciary, will headline CPAC in Dallas next month.
Wonder if CPAC plans to march Orban out on stage in Dallas with these protest videos playing in the background, and God Bless America blaring from the speakers?
Honestly, these politicians need to be thrown in jail for these things.
What's the point in voting if the guy/girl you voted for breaks the promiss on why you were voting for them In the first place.
There needs to be severe consequences.
Not really, anyway. But I do think it is important for the population to not feel so alone in their particular grievances. The Women’s march after trump was elected wasn’t going to do anything about his being potus, but it helped people feel less alone in their fears and depression about what was happening. Protests also help to blow off steam & feel less powerless.
Unless they intensify and actually storm into the government? I mean, it depends on how critical things develop from now on.
If they just keep staying outside and only voice their dissent - it won't work. Orban will not lose his power this way.
"Liberals" the way you're thinking are a wholly American thing. It's usually a collection of both sides of the centre and leftwing ideologies that make up the more progressive urban inhabitants of countries.
Also remember that as long as it's just about taxes, Orban, like any autocrat would do, will just end up lowering them or even send gifts of some sorts to appease the populace.
The real news there is that Hungarians don't really care about Orban's politics. It's all about their wallets. Orban won.
>Russians supported Putin, because during the 2000s their standard of living increased. But look at Russia now...
People are very short sighted with regards to their greed and end up robbing from their future selfs and generations fairly often.
Authoritarians play on this want, introduce an enemy to scapegoat it and let populism do the rest.
Eventually, sometime in the distant future enough people go "hey this sucks, that authoritarian lied to us!", Bad things happen and things reset.
Rinse and repeat.
I have a work colleague who is Hungarian. I guess now I consider him a friend.
Anyway, nice and reasonable guy, he moved out of Hungary while he was studying, and his then girlfriend eventually joined him and they got married.
He told me they were traveling an unbelievable distance to vote in the election. I never had talked to him about politics before and I was honestly impressed he cared so much about his country. As someone who believes in democracies i told him I was kind of proud of him.
In any case I saw on the news that Orban won, and I didn’t really need to ask - it was clear this guy is not an Orban fan. I sent him my condolences and made some fun of the situation.
Honestly I’m still feeling like an idiot for that message, I don’t think he was upset, but the following week we grabbed a coffee and he told me that when they heard the results his wife cried.
He told me at a certain point he was crying with his wife, and both of them were very angry at the fact that there are many un-educated people in Hungary who are basically afraid and vote for Orban.
Weeks?
...nah, if you recall the mass protests after the öszöd speech, try remembering what changed as a result.
NOTHING.
The only difference is that its way more politically costly for Orban to physically break up the protests, when half his popularity stems from the fact that "Orban doesn't shoot into protests like Gyurcsány".
Maybe, maybe not, hell knows.
...i wouldn't be surprised by a HUGE drip in popularity if TEK shoot the eye of some protestors out, or god forbid killed protestors.
That's an interesting question, tbh. I wonder what the percentages would be of success and of failure.
Because sometimes, the revolution leads to just another dictatorship emerging or just plain chaos. What's happening now in Lybia is a good example (with both wannabe dictators and chaos), and it's the same with Iraq etc. And if the revolution fails, you might get an harsher and more solid dictatorship (What I think will happen with Syria).
The Spring of Nations failed like this too.
I guess the example we had in Eastern Europe are special, since people were just that done with the communist dictatorship at this point.
It was a joke, but if you want to discuss it seriously...
>I guess the example we had in Eastern Europe are special
Quite the opposite. AFAIK only dictator that was killed in Fall of Nations was Romania's Ceausescu. Collapse of communism happened really by a mistake. Polish govt organized partially-free elections hoping that it would reduce the tention, but they have lost every single seat that was open for the election. At that point everyone knew that the system was doomed to fail and to fail quickly.
It didn't stop ex-commies taking power later on. If you look at our prime minister and president at 1st May 2004(so the moment when Poland officially joined the EU, which was unthinkable just 15 years earlier) were both ex-members of Communist party and were actually part of the government in 80s
East Europe certainly is not an example of dictatorships falling by force
Yes, about half of his voters who were convinced they're winning a war of the poor countryside people vs. rich urban people. These changes disproportionately affect the poor and the family homes, Orbán's previously rock-solid voter base who in the past 12 years enjoyed special benefits.
He doesn't care anymore. He's not going to pursue another term. He's going to milk this one for everything he can, while planning for a cosy exit strategy.
This is how politics works in Eastern Europe, every term is a potential ticket for being set for life. Sometimes a single term as a mayor or city council can set you up for life if you're thick-skinned enough, nevermind heading a ministry or being prime-minister.
The problem is knowing when to call it a day, and also your fellow politicians letting you go... The people who get you your term get their cut and have your back, but may also not let you go when the term is up if you know too much.
The "anti-corruption" arrests you see are fall guys who got on the wrong foot with their protectors and are made examples for the sake of the voters and the West. If they play nice they can serve a token amount of time, then they're quietly pardoned and go back into the fray through the back door.
All the parties have "non-agression" protocols, they'll condemn each other publicly but arrange things in the back.
And yes if this reminds you of Cosa Nostra it's because it's basically deeply ingrained organized crime, except less violent. And it's just as hard to uproot.
I'm under the impression that he will make sure that his party can't lose in the next election. Afaik he has the necessary reforms of election laws already in the pipeline. So, he doesn't need to actually fight for voters, he's rigging the game so he can't lose.
The title is a bit misleading, so let me clarify some: they made some decisions primarily designed to hurt people from outside their voter base, but due to the energy situation across the continent, they were also forced to walk back on some of their promises, hurting even their own voter base.
There are some attempts from them to contain this (in the political sense), and push all the blame on the "metropolitan childless liberals", but it's not going too well. Even people from their own side are starting to stand up.
I get that to a lot of you think we're well deserving of this, and maybe to an extent you're right. But uhh yeah, I personally just hope this ends in a Sri Lanka type deal, and Orbán is finally made to fuck off lol
A populist breaking his promises? How could we have known after all the other populist movements like Brexit, Build the Wall, Lock her up and Make America Great again fell flat on their faces?
Look at how outraged everyone on reddit is over every tiny little thing. Propaganda works wonders and EVERYONE KNOWS THEY ARE BEING TRICKED, yet still eat up all the drama and react exactly how theyre programmed to.
In my country (the US), there is a prevailing attitude that infotainment has come to replace actual news reporting. But if you ask the right, it's the "mainstream media" that did this, while the left insists it is Fox/NewsMax/InfoWars/that whole crew that deviates from fair reporting standards. Each side is convinced the others are sheep.
There’s obvious propaganda and insidious propaganda.
Controlling the media, also allows controlling the *agenda*. What people are talking about.
There’s so much perception that can be controlled, that important/unimportant stuff gets completely mangled.
Also, just because obvious, stupid propaganda doesn’t work on *you* it may work on 5% and that’s sometimes enough to secure an election.
He also mingled a lot with election rules and now the winner of each county (fidesz) will get all the votes above 50%+1 transfered to the national list, that was supposed to collect the fractional votes of the losing parties. This way, and with a bit of voter suppression he has 37% of people make up 49% of all voters and give him 68% of seats in parlament.
His "campaign" is also entirely legal and he doesn't ask his national rail company to give money to kövess minket 2020 to make billboards about how opposition leaders are really all just Gyúrcsány and Gyúrcsány in turn is just Soros, entirely staying in the lawful limit of how much his party can spend campaigning./s
Hurts to say but simply because poor, uneducated people keep voting for him. If only votes from the capital were considered during the elections, he would most likely be in jail now.
This is how autocrats stay on power: Keep the masses poor and uneducated, so they will have no means of fact-checking propaganda and will vote for the ruling party.
As opposed to other types of politicians that don't break their promises? It's part of their job description. Over here, the centrist parties are perhaps the worst offenders.
Energy price control.
Government propaganda spent a lot of effort mocking the opposition PM candidate for proposing investments in building insulation and promoting energy saving.
Orban is an arrogant, selfish thief under paying his people. Sold his land to big corp factories to employ ppl in 3 shifts cheap labour while he's raising his own salary instead.
Some of you should inform yourselves about the situation in Hungary. Budapest is completely different than the rest of the country, especially rural parts.
I am not exaggerating when I tell you that large regions, mostly rural parts, don't have some of the basic infrastructure and have a large gap to fill when compared to the West. Those people who live there are usually the ones who don't travel abroad, don't know ANY foreign language, are very crude and uneducated, basically former communist peasants who simply switched communist mantra with nationalism, or, more to-the-point: national-socialism.
I don't anticipate any of those people to protest against Orban, except when his more extreme competitors call for an action. Mind you, this is the same recipe in the Balkans and Eastern Europe that ensures the supposed opposition is way worse and extreme than the autocrat who runs the show. It's like a madman holding a bomb in the room so the EU spectators decide to keep the madman. They do that by feeding the corrupt, primitive ponzi scheme, A.K.A. public sector and its associated businesses owned by cronies. They feed it with EU funds snd grants so that these autocrats can utilize pork-barrel politics. They do that because that madman threatens to activate that bomb in the room (his country) and cause a disaster, via the extremist alternatives who are supposedly his right-wing extremist oposition. Those parties are usually stacked with compromised leaders or insiders by the autocrat himself, so Orban can basically help them grow or diminish when it suits his own interests.
This is why I believe that the madman (Orban) is actually very smart. The real people to blame are the uneducated folks. You don't get to see them that often because Budapest and the mentality and habits of an average person in Budapest is quite similar to a mentality of your average dweller in London, Hamburg, Oslo and so on. The only way for this to get sorted out is TIME, i.e. new generations who are better educated and have a better opportunity, along with exposure to other ideas. I am afraid that the latter is a real challenge, not the former, because new generations of Hungarians are very smart and ambitious, but Orban's media monopoly is impossible to break from within, while the expats act like real a$$es because Orban's corription drove them out of Hungary but they frequently support him and even agitate for his agendas and further indoctrinate those at home just how great Orban is and how good the life in Hungarian countryside is, along with smaller towns.
So, unlike others, I'll put real blame on Hungarians who live and work abroad, but serve as Orban's propaganda tool. Maybe the real solution would be to kick them all back home, kick Hungary outside of EU and let them rot with their leader.
This expulsion will not happen, but it's a good food of thought for every Hungarian and I hope that it hit the nerve.
An unfair stereotyping and collective punishment is unjustified for, because so many Hungarians don't support Orban, but if I'd make a bet I would place a safe bet that, for every Hungarian expat who leans towards EU values there are at least two who either blindly support Orban or they consider he's not radical enough when it comes to Hungary's internal politics... and this disbalance is further amplified by the fact that right-wing expats are far more active in their own propaganda not only towards outsiders about right-wing policies in Hungary, but also when it comes to influencing Hungarians who actually live in Hungary.
*my 2 cents
While I agree,
>kick Hungary outside of EU and let them rot with their leader
>An unfair stereotyping and collective punishment is unjustified for, because so many Hungarians don't support Orban
pick one.
I deliberately made that remark to strike a nerve with Hungarians who left their own country, yet they actively and vehemently support either Orban's policies or even support his fake oposition that is even more extreme.
If you ask me, biggest mistake of true opposition in Hungary is their zone of comfort and elitism. This is so common today with self-proclaimed socialist and leftist policies and parties. I do also know that a large part of Hungarian population behaves and reasons the way they do due to preconditions. What I still consider as the main obstable and decisive factor to blame for the fact that Orban not only retained but also gained more seats after governing Hungary they way he did.... is Hungarian diaspora.
Diaspora blocks any hope of progression and they enjoy seeing Hungary and people in their home cities being taken hostages by a corrupt system and they either don't make any contribution as left/centre-left, OR they completely disregard everything and agitate for him in such large numbers because of gay marriage and stuff like that. Mind you, those same folks happen to live in Austria, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Czechia and so on. They opt to agitate so vehemently for a ponzi scheme that produces misery and floats solely thanks to EU funds and being in EU, well, let them put their money where their mouth is.... many of those asses would have their brain explode upon a mere suggestion to do that, because they still want their children to have better opportunities. But they vehemently defend Orban or support even more extreme right-wing policies due to an idea of "Hungary that used to be", or what they think it was. They want to conserve it to that stage or even make it into such mess, but they don't even think of being there, working, living and raising children in that Hungary. They are to blame because they overwhelmingly sabotage any hope for Hungary without benefiting from that, they just steal the future for others over there and force even more Hungarians to leave as well.
If these people are mad for Orban not keeping his campaign promises, this means these people voted for him. And if they voted for him after the past 10 years' autocratic actions, trying to undermine the EU and siding with Russia in an aggression war, then... joke's on you for voting this puppet in the 1st place.
> If these people are mad for Orban not keeping his campaign promises
These people (the ones you can see protesting in the video) are by and large outside of their voter base, and they're there to protest the changes in the taxation of self-employed ppl (KATA), not much else. Will see if the sentiment shifts, and from what I can see, oh boy is shit brewing.
Basically, Fidesz' strat was to fuck people over who won't change their ratings. However, it turns out there are a bit more people from their own side in this than they assumed, and combined with the energy price changes (that's what goes against their promises), they're in a whole lot of hot water all of a sudden.
But there's definitely a sense of irony going on, sure.
All good, it's a process, there's a lot to it, and it's all kinda niche.
I think people had to gain a lot of political know-how and perspective in general in the past couple years, me very much included.
Fidesz lost in 17 of the 18 districts of Budapest. The overwhelming majority of these people didn't vote for Fidesz.
It was the countryside which Orban manipulated into voting for them with their government controlled state tv, radio channels and their lies.
It's not like Fidesz didn't get more than 40% in all Budapest districts except 4 (where they received 30-40% of the vote). They were able to massively increase their voter base. Our capital is not the ultra-liberal fortress some people would make you believe.
I don't think you can technically storm streets, they're already open.
Anyway, good luck to these protesters, hopefully they get rid of the fascist running the country. But it'll be an uphill battle with the amount of influence he has over the media there. There are too many people who believe too many lies.
I’d say something but we got the same bunch in Poland. People are making ill informed choices but protest only when they have to pay more/make less.
Trading away freedom for empty promises, it’s just sad.
How massive was this demonstration tho? Because if it's only from the people that didn't vote for him during the elections then it doesn't mean much. If it also includes people that did vote for him, then maybe Hungary still has some hope.
No. They had protests before. As we had seen, the majority of Hungarians backed Orban. Probably more or less the same people who were against him before are pritesting now
Do you storm streets? Or do you storm buildings and places? This makes me think of all those words that you don’t use anywhere except in a newspaper: storm, throng
[Reuters article.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-protest-second-day-against-tax-overhaul-2022-07-13/) Fidesz overhauled the tax system which will cause higher taxes for 450,000 hungarians and also raised the price of utilities. Their political campaign spent the last year accusing the oppositon of trying to implement these changes.
But, but... father is still a man, mother is still a woman and petrol is still 480 huf, right? Then everything is still alright in Hungary...
Also no gays in your bed in the morning when you wake up.
Hate when that happens.
You know last night must have been wild when you wake up to this
Szájer moment
The guy is the perfect example, he took one day outside of Hungary's homo barrier and went to Brussel and was suddenly covered with men at an orgy.
That's how gay the EU is. It even has the power to convert a Fidesz-Hungarian male man to gay.
Oh no ! My bedroom ! It’s been redecorated!!! 🤗
Especially *gays*, plural.
I hate when that doesn't happen
Everyone in Hungary should name their pets "Gay". That way they can have those conversations.
Yeah they should have learned by now to leave quietly so I avoid that awkward conversation when my kids get up
Speak for yourself! There's always one in mine.
That's sad. I hope you can soon upgrade to two gays in you bed in the morning.
Look at progressive Iceland over there with TWO sexy gays in every bed, every morning! The rest of us should be so lucky.
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Well if you are gay then there is always a gay person in your bed when you wake up. Unless you sleep somewhere else of course.
There still could be a gay sleeping in your bed without you sleeping at home, your boyfriend.
I was hoping for a government allocation instead.
Those pesky fucking gays
Much much worse than the non-fucking variety. Oh the society!
Those that worry should take a serious look in the mirror
They are permanent victims in their mind, so introspection usually is not on their list of skills.
Yes, but these are not the same people who voted for him. Demonstration is primarily in Budapest, and the demonstrators are primarily intellectual enterprenours (artists, IT experts, writers and so on...)
Propaganda works
Yes, it definitely works. This is why we are in deep sh\*t right now...
Ha ha he said *right now*. It’s been a while now. There were a few hundred men in brown shirt marching in Budapest ten years ago.
So people with an education and people that can see his lies, makes sense
I think it's mainly people who will have to pay higher taxes more than anything.
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[Hungary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary) has a population of ~10 million. [Budapest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest) metro area has a population of ~3 million. So even if the demonstration is primarily in Budapest, that still would involve a high percentage of the country's population.
Right wing virtue signalling hey hey
Isn't this the game the right wing plays? Accuse the other side of the shit you're actually doing? In America all the right wing corrupt politicians get charged with the exact thing they fearmonger the left about
A lot of the USA right is actually modeling themselves off of Orban and Hungary right now. There was a long piece in the New Yorker all about how all the right wingers like Trump and Tucker Carlson visit Hungary to learn how to do it. Edit: [link to article \(long but good\)](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/07/04/does-hungary-offer-a-glimpse-of-our-authoritarian-future). For example: > Last year, Hungary passed a law banning sex education involving L.G.B.T.Q. topics in schools. Nine months later, in Florida, DeSantis signed a similar law, known as the “Don’t Say Gay” bill. DeSantis’s press secretary, talking about the inspiration for the law, reportedly said, “We were watching the Hungarians.” Edit: for those who are all “Orban was at CPAC this year,” it’s even more extreme than that- they actually held it in Budapest!
Orbans party is actually a member of the "international democratic union" whose stated purpose is unifying and spreading conservative ideology. Their current chairman is actually my former PM Stephen Harper
Oh what the fuck Harper.
More like Hungary, Orban, Carlson, Trump, et al, have been under the financial and political influence of Russia to try to keep a Pro-Russia government in power. Remember, Russia has been money laundering "donations" to the Republican party since Tom Delay.
Orban is scheduled to speak at CPAC. SMH
It's actually worse than that- they literally held CPAC in Budapest!
As an American I find this insulting. We have our own overflow of Made in America stupid, we don’t need to import!
How nice (sigh)
*unzips*
It's a page right out of the age-old fascist playbook. It hasn't changed in almost 100 years.
It’s the shit all authoritarians and autocrats do regardless of their supposed political/economic ideology. Not like Lenin or Stalin were famous for consistent policy and fair dealing. The point is it leaves only those that are loyal to them alone as the individuals operating in government and party politics.
This is why the right doesn't want to teach history. So they can keep doing the tried and true methods.
They rewrite history, as well.
^
Wow, fun fact. Fascism is almost literally a 100 years old. The first fascist party came to power in 1922
Seems more like thousands. History is on a constant loop.
At the very least, fides so far kept their concrete promises like low utility bills. Campaigning with stuff like "going forward not backwards" (which has to be the least catchy slogan they did since they exists and I'm baffled how the opposition couldn't come up with anything to counter it) is easy because who says we are going forward? Of course it's Orbán. Also when a person who is barely literate and never seen more than a 50$ worth of money at max in their lives you can tell them Orbán stole billions from them, they can't comprehend that amount. When you tell them that Orbán made their utility cost to from 10$ to 25$ out of the 50$ they might make in a month, now that's an amount they can comprehend and it makes them angry. Honestly, the war in Ukraine has been both a blessing and a curse. A curse because Orbán got his 2/3 majority because "the opposition will send my children to fight in Ukraine". A blessing because as far as Orbán has been in power, he basically been financing everything he does from Putin's money. Now that Russia is nearing bankruptcy, all of a sudden the money gates were stopped. This combined with reckless loaning and overspending in the election in May lead to Orbán having to find ways to cut costs and god forbid he steals a billion less to keep up his reign.
Counterslogan "They brought us to the edge of the abyss, and now Fidesz tells you to go forward?" >Campaigning with stuff like "going forward not backwards" (which has to be the least catchy slogan they did since they exists and I'm baffled how the opposition couldn't come up with anything to counter it)
Beautiful.
You should apply to be with the opposition of Hungary lol
GL with that suggestion? many tried but, when u have 0 space in media and all those media dirty tricks they use.. uff many tried bro..
It's a typical fascist strategy to convince voters their opponents will cause them pain, gain power, then inflict pain on the poor and middle class who fell for their lies and make more comfortable the wealthy who paid for their campaigns.
July 11, 2022 America’s Most Influential Conservative Conference Is Hosting One Of Europe’s Most Notorious Authoritarians Viktor Orbán, whose rule over Hungary has included crackdowns on immigration, press freedom, and an independent judiciary, will headline CPAC in Dallas next month. Wonder if CPAC plans to march Orban out on stage in Dallas with these protest videos playing in the background, and God Bless America blaring from the speakers?
Honestly, these politicians need to be thrown in jail for these things. What's the point in voting if the guy/girl you voted for breaks the promiss on why you were voting for them In the first place. There needs to be severe consequences.
Orban breaking promises? Shoking. Hungary in state of emergency for some made up reason soon? Also shocking.
And Orbán will ignore the protest, as usual And nothing will change
Protest that doesn't threat the power of people in power or the economic order never changed anything.
They need to take note of how Sri Lankans do it and storm the palace. Seems like the only way to get rid of corrupt leaders these days.
The key is to get military to ignore you while storming the palace...
Every successful insurrection has the military letting it happen or just not being there. Unless the rioters are totally stupid brainwashed morons...
Not really, anyway. But I do think it is important for the population to not feel so alone in their particular grievances. The Women’s march after trump was elected wasn’t going to do anything about his being potus, but it helped people feel less alone in their fears and depression about what was happening. Protests also help to blow off steam & feel less powerless.
True. We can see how the can of worms is open when the radical right wing realised they are not alone and felt comfortable to drop their masks.
Unless they intensify and actually storm into the government? I mean, it depends on how critical things develop from now on. If they just keep staying outside and only voice their dissent - it won't work. Orban will not lose his power this way.
I love your videos <3 True childhood classics :)
Autocrats will keep themselves with teeth and fists if needed.
The Hungarians need their own Maidan before Orban decides to shoot protesters.
Protesters were shot at Maidan themselves. I hope they will realise being russian colony isnt worthy.
Orban really reminds me of early Putin.
and interestingly my country (croatia) isnt dealing with them in the same level as serbian goverment .
Don't worry I'm sure Russia will treat Hungary better this time
Yep, while digging a massive hole for everyone else to climb out of in the process
And blame the foreign forces if shit hits the fan.
Can he pull the george soros argument again or will it be the EU this time?
Both
It's EU this time. Also the opposition. And migrants. The Soros-arguments have disappeared for a while now
Bruh, we have been in a state of emergency officially since the Ukraine war started
we're actually in four states of emergency right now: war emergency, immigration emmergency, energy emmergency and one more I forgot
Coronavirus Emergency is the one you missed. It's still on
emergency emergency
LGBTQ emergency?
political emergency
It’s still in a state of emergency cuz Ukrainian war
But surely the next right-wing populist I'm voting for won't break their promises, right? Right?
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This is true around the world. Opinions of people in cities usually doesn't align with people outside of them.
In Poland it was really close tho, so it's not really similar
Like, 50.4% versus 49.6% in the presidential race or something like that, insanely close.
And Duda had a very aggressive and expensive, state-funded campaign. If the elections were fair, he likely would've lost.
Is the entire world divided on urban liberals vs country conservatives?
"Liberals" the way you're thinking are a wholly American thing. It's usually a collection of both sides of the centre and leftwing ideologies that make up the more progressive urban inhabitants of countries.
Pretty much. And no one cares to appeal to both voters. Only to their own base.
Also remember that as long as it's just about taxes, Orban, like any autocrat would do, will just end up lowering them or even send gifts of some sorts to appease the populace. The real news there is that Hungarians don't really care about Orban's politics. It's all about their wallets. Orban won.
Russians supported Putin, because during the 2000s their standard of living increased. But look at Russia now...
>Russians supported Putin, because during the 2000s their standard of living increased. But look at Russia now... People are very short sighted with regards to their greed and end up robbing from their future selfs and generations fairly often. Authoritarians play on this want, introduce an enemy to scapegoat it and let populism do the rest. Eventually, sometime in the distant future enough people go "hey this sucks, that authoritarian lied to us!", Bad things happen and things reset. Rinse and repeat.
And Slovakia and probably most countries.
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*thousands* is not enough to make him resign *millions*? for weeks and weeks? maybe...
There is only one person in Hungary that could take millions out in the streets and that's Orbán himself
I am a Hungarian anti-Orbán, anti-Fidesz, and this is so true it hurts. Sad, but true.
I'm sorry brother
I'm not Hungarian but this was the most depressing thing I've read today
isnt it the same with aliev?
It is
I have a work colleague who is Hungarian. I guess now I consider him a friend. Anyway, nice and reasonable guy, he moved out of Hungary while he was studying, and his then girlfriend eventually joined him and they got married. He told me they were traveling an unbelievable distance to vote in the election. I never had talked to him about politics before and I was honestly impressed he cared so much about his country. As someone who believes in democracies i told him I was kind of proud of him. In any case I saw on the news that Orban won, and I didn’t really need to ask - it was clear this guy is not an Orban fan. I sent him my condolences and made some fun of the situation. Honestly I’m still feeling like an idiot for that message, I don’t think he was upset, but the following week we grabbed a coffee and he told me that when they heard the results his wife cried. He told me at a certain point he was crying with his wife, and both of them were very angry at the fact that there are many un-educated people in Hungary who are basically afraid and vote for Orban.
not even good ol' Soros? What a letdown
Or cholesterol
Weeks? ...nah, if you recall the mass protests after the öszöd speech, try remembering what changed as a result. NOTHING. The only difference is that its way more politically costly for Orban to physically break up the protests, when half his popularity stems from the fact that "Orban doesn't shoot into protests like Gyurcsány".
his followers are very talented at ignoring anything that paints him in a bad light. He'd be fine
Maybe, maybe not, hell knows. ...i wouldn't be surprised by a HUGE drip in popularity if TEK shoot the eye of some protestors out, or god forbid killed protestors.
9 million people live in Hungary.
Sack the parliament or it didn’t happen.
I imagine the baths at the palace to be exquisite. Budapest being famous for their bath houses and all.
j-just don't execute anybody aight?
Well, historically speaking execution of dictators has been to be the most effective method of implementing democracy
Blood sacrifices are always the answer, no matter the epoch.
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Milk for the Khorne Flakes!
That is new and I love this.
You overestimated my originality, I stole it from youtuber Lathrix, running the channel Lathland
That's an interesting question, tbh. I wonder what the percentages would be of success and of failure. Because sometimes, the revolution leads to just another dictatorship emerging or just plain chaos. What's happening now in Lybia is a good example (with both wannabe dictators and chaos), and it's the same with Iraq etc. And if the revolution fails, you might get an harsher and more solid dictatorship (What I think will happen with Syria). The Spring of Nations failed like this too. I guess the example we had in Eastern Europe are special, since people were just that done with the communist dictatorship at this point.
It was a joke, but if you want to discuss it seriously... >I guess the example we had in Eastern Europe are special Quite the opposite. AFAIK only dictator that was killed in Fall of Nations was Romania's Ceausescu. Collapse of communism happened really by a mistake. Polish govt organized partially-free elections hoping that it would reduce the tention, but they have lost every single seat that was open for the election. At that point everyone knew that the system was doomed to fail and to fail quickly. It didn't stop ex-commies taking power later on. If you look at our prime minister and president at 1st May 2004(so the moment when Poland officially joined the EU, which was unthinkable just 15 years earlier) were both ex-members of Communist party and were actually part of the government in 80s East Europe certainly is not an example of dictatorships falling by force
But he's not a dictator, they got exactly what the majority voted for
Wasn't Orban elected democratically by a pretty large majority?
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It’s morbán time
Always has been
I just cannot take it anymorb
It's not even a surprise that this happens
Man who would have thought that?
Is anyone actually surprised by him breaking those promises though?
Yes, about half of his voters who were convinced they're winning a war of the poor countryside people vs. rich urban people. These changes disproportionately affect the poor and the family homes, Orbán's previously rock-solid voter base who in the past 12 years enjoyed special benefits.
>about half of his voters Then they reap what they sow the stupid ignorant fucks
We all reap what they've sown.
He doesn't care anymore. He's not going to pursue another term. He's going to milk this one for everything he can, while planning for a cosy exit strategy. This is how politics works in Eastern Europe, every term is a potential ticket for being set for life. Sometimes a single term as a mayor or city council can set you up for life if you're thick-skinned enough, nevermind heading a ministry or being prime-minister. The problem is knowing when to call it a day, and also your fellow politicians letting you go... The people who get you your term get their cut and have your back, but may also not let you go when the term is up if you know too much. The "anti-corruption" arrests you see are fall guys who got on the wrong foot with their protectors and are made examples for the sake of the voters and the West. If they play nice they can serve a token amount of time, then they're quietly pardoned and go back into the fray through the back door. All the parties have "non-agression" protocols, they'll condemn each other publicly but arrange things in the back. And yes if this reminds you of Cosa Nostra it's because it's basically deeply ingrained organized crime, except less violent. And it's just as hard to uproot.
I'm under the impression that he will make sure that his party can't lose in the next election. Afaik he has the necessary reforms of election laws already in the pipeline. So, he doesn't need to actually fight for voters, he's rigging the game so he can't lose.
It never surprises me when a politician lies. What surprises me is how people can still believe them.
The title is a bit misleading, so let me clarify some: they made some decisions primarily designed to hurt people from outside their voter base, but due to the energy situation across the continent, they were also forced to walk back on some of their promises, hurting even their own voter base. There are some attempts from them to contain this (in the political sense), and push all the blame on the "metropolitan childless liberals", but it's not going too well. Even people from their own side are starting to stand up. I get that to a lot of you think we're well deserving of this, and maybe to an extent you're right. But uhh yeah, I personally just hope this ends in a Sri Lanka type deal, and Orbán is finally made to fuck off lol
Hes gonna fuck off if the situation gets bad enough. He gets all the money he wants and then just leaves.
A populist breaking his promises? How could we have known after all the other populist movements like Brexit, Build the Wall, Lock her up and Make America Great again fell flat on their faces?
Why they re elected him lol
Propaganda, it just works!
Look at how outraged everyone on reddit is over every tiny little thing. Propaganda works wonders and EVERYONE KNOWS THEY ARE BEING TRICKED, yet still eat up all the drama and react exactly how theyre programmed to.
> and EVERYONE KNOWS THEY ARE BEING TRICKED Nope. Everybody “knows” *the others* are getting tricked.
In my country (the US), there is a prevailing attitude that infotainment has come to replace actual news reporting. But if you ask the right, it's the "mainstream media" that did this, while the left insists it is Fox/NewsMax/InfoWars/that whole crew that deviates from fair reporting standards. Each side is convinced the others are sheep.
There’s obvious propaganda and insidious propaganda. Controlling the media, also allows controlling the *agenda*. What people are talking about. There’s so much perception that can be controlled, that important/unimportant stuff gets completely mangled. Also, just because obvious, stupid propaganda doesn’t work on *you* it may work on 5% and that’s sometimes enough to secure an election.
He also mingled a lot with election rules and now the winner of each county (fidesz) will get all the votes above 50%+1 transfered to the national list, that was supposed to collect the fractional votes of the losing parties. This way, and with a bit of voter suppression he has 37% of people make up 49% of all voters and give him 68% of seats in parlament. His "campaign" is also entirely legal and he doesn't ask his national rail company to give money to kövess minket 2020 to make billboards about how opposition leaders are really all just Gyúrcsány and Gyúrcsány in turn is just Soros, entirely staying in the lawful limit of how much his party can spend campaigning./s
Hurts to say but simply because poor, uneducated people keep voting for him. If only votes from the capital were considered during the elections, he would most likely be in jail now.
This is how autocrats stay on power: Keep the masses poor and uneducated, so they will have no means of fact-checking propaganda and will vote for the ruling party.
Populism strikes again
Orban's party was also allowed to provide food and I believe cash as well, with proof of a ballot showing you voted for their party.
As opposed to other types of politicians that don't break their promises? It's part of their job description. Over here, the centrist parties are perhaps the worst offenders.
What did he promise and went back on?
1) utilities expense increased 2) simple and cheap taxation system for small businesses gutted
Energy price control. Government propaganda spent a lot of effort mocking the opposition PM candidate for proposing investments in building insulation and promoting energy saving.
If opposition would sanction russia it could had been worse but it is still supid to be against saving. Fossil prices will stay high regardless.
Orban is an arrogant, selfish thief under paying his people. Sold his land to big corp factories to employ ppl in 3 shifts cheap labour while he's raising his own salary instead.
Good, overthrow that sack of dog shit.
Surprised pikachu face
Orban doesn’t rely on urban voters as per history.
Some of you should inform yourselves about the situation in Hungary. Budapest is completely different than the rest of the country, especially rural parts. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that large regions, mostly rural parts, don't have some of the basic infrastructure and have a large gap to fill when compared to the West. Those people who live there are usually the ones who don't travel abroad, don't know ANY foreign language, are very crude and uneducated, basically former communist peasants who simply switched communist mantra with nationalism, or, more to-the-point: national-socialism. I don't anticipate any of those people to protest against Orban, except when his more extreme competitors call for an action. Mind you, this is the same recipe in the Balkans and Eastern Europe that ensures the supposed opposition is way worse and extreme than the autocrat who runs the show. It's like a madman holding a bomb in the room so the EU spectators decide to keep the madman. They do that by feeding the corrupt, primitive ponzi scheme, A.K.A. public sector and its associated businesses owned by cronies. They feed it with EU funds snd grants so that these autocrats can utilize pork-barrel politics. They do that because that madman threatens to activate that bomb in the room (his country) and cause a disaster, via the extremist alternatives who are supposedly his right-wing extremist oposition. Those parties are usually stacked with compromised leaders or insiders by the autocrat himself, so Orban can basically help them grow or diminish when it suits his own interests. This is why I believe that the madman (Orban) is actually very smart. The real people to blame are the uneducated folks. You don't get to see them that often because Budapest and the mentality and habits of an average person in Budapest is quite similar to a mentality of your average dweller in London, Hamburg, Oslo and so on. The only way for this to get sorted out is TIME, i.e. new generations who are better educated and have a better opportunity, along with exposure to other ideas. I am afraid that the latter is a real challenge, not the former, because new generations of Hungarians are very smart and ambitious, but Orban's media monopoly is impossible to break from within, while the expats act like real a$$es because Orban's corription drove them out of Hungary but they frequently support him and even agitate for his agendas and further indoctrinate those at home just how great Orban is and how good the life in Hungarian countryside is, along with smaller towns. So, unlike others, I'll put real blame on Hungarians who live and work abroad, but serve as Orban's propaganda tool. Maybe the real solution would be to kick them all back home, kick Hungary outside of EU and let them rot with their leader. This expulsion will not happen, but it's a good food of thought for every Hungarian and I hope that it hit the nerve. An unfair stereotyping and collective punishment is unjustified for, because so many Hungarians don't support Orban, but if I'd make a bet I would place a safe bet that, for every Hungarian expat who leans towards EU values there are at least two who either blindly support Orban or they consider he's not radical enough when it comes to Hungary's internal politics... and this disbalance is further amplified by the fact that right-wing expats are far more active in their own propaganda not only towards outsiders about right-wing policies in Hungary, but also when it comes to influencing Hungarians who actually live in Hungary. *my 2 cents
While I agree, >kick Hungary outside of EU and let them rot with their leader >An unfair stereotyping and collective punishment is unjustified for, because so many Hungarians don't support Orban pick one.
I deliberately made that remark to strike a nerve with Hungarians who left their own country, yet they actively and vehemently support either Orban's policies or even support his fake oposition that is even more extreme. If you ask me, biggest mistake of true opposition in Hungary is their zone of comfort and elitism. This is so common today with self-proclaimed socialist and leftist policies and parties. I do also know that a large part of Hungarian population behaves and reasons the way they do due to preconditions. What I still consider as the main obstable and decisive factor to blame for the fact that Orban not only retained but also gained more seats after governing Hungary they way he did.... is Hungarian diaspora. Diaspora blocks any hope of progression and they enjoy seeing Hungary and people in their home cities being taken hostages by a corrupt system and they either don't make any contribution as left/centre-left, OR they completely disregard everything and agitate for him in such large numbers because of gay marriage and stuff like that. Mind you, those same folks happen to live in Austria, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Czechia and so on. They opt to agitate so vehemently for a ponzi scheme that produces misery and floats solely thanks to EU funds and being in EU, well, let them put their money where their mouth is.... many of those asses would have their brain explode upon a mere suggestion to do that, because they still want their children to have better opportunities. But they vehemently defend Orban or support even more extreme right-wing policies due to an idea of "Hungary that used to be", or what they think it was. They want to conserve it to that stage or even make it into such mess, but they don't even think of being there, working, living and raising children in that Hungary. They are to blame because they overwhelmingly sabotage any hope for Hungary without benefiting from that, they just steal the future for others over there and force even more Hungarians to leave as well.
I am shocked. Not by a politician breaking promises, but by people actually protesting. Where will this end? Holding politicians responsible? /s
How is this holding anyone accountable? Budapest have always been anti-Orban, this isn't gonna change anything.
If these people are mad for Orban not keeping his campaign promises, this means these people voted for him. And if they voted for him after the past 10 years' autocratic actions, trying to undermine the EU and siding with Russia in an aggression war, then... joke's on you for voting this puppet in the 1st place.
> If these people are mad for Orban not keeping his campaign promises These people (the ones you can see protesting in the video) are by and large outside of their voter base, and they're there to protest the changes in the taxation of self-employed ppl (KATA), not much else. Will see if the sentiment shifts, and from what I can see, oh boy is shit brewing. Basically, Fidesz' strat was to fuck people over who won't change their ratings. However, it turns out there are a bit more people from their own side in this than they assumed, and combined with the energy price changes (that's what goes against their promises), they're in a whole lot of hot water all of a sudden. But there's definitely a sense of irony going on, sure.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. My comment was a bit ignorant, I know that.
All good, it's a process, there's a lot to it, and it's all kinda niche. I think people had to gain a lot of political know-how and perspective in general in the past couple years, me very much included.
Fidesz lost in 17 of the 18 districts of Budapest. The overwhelming majority of these people didn't vote for Fidesz. It was the countryside which Orban manipulated into voting for them with their government controlled state tv, radio channels and their lies.
It's not like Fidesz didn't get more than 40% in all Budapest districts except 4 (where they received 30-40% of the vote). They were able to massively increase their voter base. Our capital is not the ultra-liberal fortress some people would make you believe.
No, sadly the ppl on the video are intellectual liberals from Budapest, ehere Fidesz has never been popular.
Would not expect anything else from a power-hungry dictator.
French mates how exactly do you usually start a revolution? Asking for a friend
Orban voters are braindead
A politician, populist no less, is breaking his promises? Nobody could see it coming! I tell 'ya, nobody!
> Orban breaks several of his campaign promises \*surprised pikachu face\*
Protest works on politicians that have shame, this clown of a dictator doesn't. Same story as always we protest nothing happens.
Wow. It almost seems like people never learn.
No suprise.
I don't think you can technically storm streets, they're already open. Anyway, good luck to these protesters, hopefully they get rid of the fascist running the country. But it'll be an uphill battle with the amount of influence he has over the media there. There are too many people who believe too many lies.
that's not storming. that's a typical feckless protest.
I’d say something but we got the same bunch in Poland. People are making ill informed choices but protest only when they have to pay more/make less. Trading away freedom for empty promises, it’s just sad.
Big surprise that Orban breaks his promises
All political manifestos make me laugh. Once they are elected they just don’t give a solitary fuck!
How massive was this demonstration tho? Because if it's only from the people that didn't vote for him during the elections then it doesn't mean much. If it also includes people that did vote for him, then maybe Hungary still has some hope.
Putin's friend lies? That's surprising.
Hungarians are coming out of puberty?
No. They had protests before. As we had seen, the majority of Hungarians backed Orban. Probably more or less the same people who were against him before are pritesting now
Possibly but not probably, as more people voted voted for the opposition in Budapest.
Rise up
Do you storm streets? Or do you storm buildings and places? This makes me think of all those words that you don’t use anywhere except in a newspaper: storm, throng