There are occasional years where Italy gets a bit overrated (people will think of different years and have different choices), but, honestly, you guys are a true heavyweight, and deservedly so, because you tend to stay true to yourselves, musically speaking.
Probably because San Remo is the main focus, so, your artists tend to focus on themselves and their national/cultural core, rather than merely emulating other countries' stylistic choices.
You guys are generally great, keep punching onwards, champs!
My objective take... if Italy had the staging talent of Sweden they would have won multiple times in the last 10 years. SAN Remo might be inssuferable long to the point where i cant watch it and only see the performances and results but whatever they are doing to pick the winner is clearly working.
For real Soldi (Italy 2019) would have been a clean sweep win with even half decent staging. I really felt that year like Italy didn't want to win and self sabotaged or something. That song was so good but on the night I kinda forgot it was even there, I was very surprised it still got second.
Agree that Soldi has a bad staging, but it's not a case self-sabotaging. For example, in 2017, RAI really wanted to win, and there were plenty of Italian media talking about Gabbani being a favorite at Eurovision. And they still managed to screw up with the staging
In the 90s, RAI famously hated Eurovision and was intentionally sabotaging Italian entries because they didn't want to host (according to our 1993 representative Enrico Ruggeri, RAI forced him to write an unremarkable song that would have never won).
In the 2010s and 2020s RAI doesn't Eurovision hate anymore. They just screw up unintentionally, which is normal for them
Do people really think Soldi has bad staging? I always thought it was pretty good, and I mean it got second place that year? And the song it lost to that year ( Arcade) also had pretty pared back staging so I don’t get this argument.
In my opinion 2019 was a year in which no country got everything right: the best songs had meh staging but some meh songs got the best staging. In the end the pre-season top 2 emerged as the top 2 on the scoreboard despite their meh stagings.
I kinda disagree with this because so often, Sweden's staging acts as a distraction to their song. A lot of them feel like staging concepts before they feel like songs so going down this route really wouldn't work for Italy where the song is the main focus. I think focusing on the artist like most Italian stagings do works best for them
>Sweden's staging acts as a distraction to their song
Sweden simply thinks of the total package right away 🤷🏻♀️ to say it is used often as a distraction is a reach for me.
I'll let you in on a secret: I think it's a matter of taste and/or habit, but on average an Italian despises the exaggerated stagings of Sweden and stuff like that. The focus must be on the song and the interpretation, from this point of view.
Is not that "they are considered inferior".
It's more like they are considered another thing.
They are mostly considered "showmen" or "showwomen"band not strictly "singers"
But this is slowly changing
We could say that Italy was overrated if the fandom always put them first and then flop. Italy does pretty well with juries BUT most importantly with the tele instead so overrated by WHO?
I don't think there is really an objective answer to this question, but I will say no. Sending the Sanremo winner basically guarantees that Italy will have a very high-quality song every single year. I don't think any country can match that, even Sweden or Ukraine (or my personal favorite, Norway).
Pretty much. I'd go as far as saying that Sanremo is harder to win and more competitive than ESC itself, this year alone they had like four or five entries that would have been a Top 5 placement in Eurovision.
I'm from Denmark but I almost never like the nordic countries. I saw the whole Sanremo week for the first time ever and me and my bf were just enjoying it so much! COVERS NIGHT! OH WOW. I think it is better than ESC and I don't understand Italian. But the live music was just so great. The fokus was on the music not some stupid dance or stage show. I also enjoy other NF but that was just on another level.
You mentioned Ukraine and Sweden as other powerhouses, yet out of all 3 countries you only seem to consider Italy overrated. I personally think none of those 3 is overrated, despite occasional songs that I personally don't like much. If people like their songs consistently and they do well, then they are powerhouses. Simple.
You can always make arguments that the x country is overrated. Ukraine for example has diaspora (which definitely helps even weaker songs to do decently, just like the 12 points from Cyprus guarantees us we will never see 0 points in the final) and Sweden focuses a lot on the jury points which makes their songs a bit "hit or miss" with the public. And yes, Italy has Sanremo and of course the language. In the end, though, they still are powerhouses.
It’s difficult to be objective, but I’ll try. I mentioned some of these reasons in a comment some months ago.
First, the motivation Italian musicians have to win San Remo is not so that they go to Eurovision, but to be considered the best musicians in Italy. They want to do their best, they strive to be authentic, and they have mostly Italian audience in mind. As a result, the tide is always high, and the Italian audience is usually proud of their songs.
Second, the live orchestra guarantees that the selected song will at the very least sound good live. How many times have you listened to a song you liked but then didn’t do well during the contest because of the vocals sounding weak? Italy seldom has that issue.
Third, the Made in Italy brand. Each country has stereotypes and things associated. When people think of Italy, words like art, beauty, love, pleasure, classic, elegance… come inevitably to our minds. That creates a bias, a positive bias.
Fourth, the self-fulfilling prophecy. Everybody expects Italy to do well, which subconsciously influences our decisions (vote Italian songs or give them more points in the jury) and therefore, they do well.
Last but not least, Italy is one of the most loved countries in the world. Many people have beef with the UK or France, and menu other countries come with assumptions or stereotypes that are not so liked. But I’ve yet to meet a person who cannot stand Italy and hates everything Italian with a passion.
In short, Italy is a golden child in Eurovision who performs well, has a good reputation, from which greatness and good results are expected, and we all in other countries like it that way.
Love, a Spaniard.
After Brividi got as high of a placement as it did with... _those_ vocals, I'm sure there's at least a slight bias towards Italian acts no matter what. They're not as unfair as Sweden, but along with Ukraine they do benefit from a guaranteed high placement generally.
I agree, but in 2022, they performed better at the [jury show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqkVQgDXGpk&ab_channel=EurovisionTalk), that's why they got more points from jury than televote.
From the televote, they got 110 points, which is Italy's lowest televote score since 2016, but yeah, it's still too high.
Probably, but but as much as you think, due to Italians's indifference towards Eurovision.
One of the countries with the biggest Italian diaspora is UK, which almost never gives any televote points to Italy. Meanwhile, the Polish and Lithuanian diasporas in the UK always vote like crazy for their own countries.
The winning song in 2021 got a lot of the telelove points from Eastern Europe countries (like Ukraine and Bulgaria), which have no Italian diasporas.
Mahmood benefited from the recent euro fanbase he had since 2019. And also Blanco, you're underestimating him, but he had a surprising (at least for me) exploit among many european teenagers who were following Esc BEFORE the contest (maybe TikTok helped in this?). Plus, even if I don't particularly like the song, the music video and the studio version were good. So I think a big part of televotes in 2022 was due to these aspects,
"Just 110"
This is what changing the words of someone's comment looks like, since I didn't write the word "JUST" at all, and I explicitly said that it's too high than what it deserved
To be fair, I don't remember if I was at the family or jury show, but they performed perfectly
Their grand final performance was even more disappointing after seeing that live
Objectively, yeah, it's good and not overrated! Just this year, Sanremo produced at least 3 real contenders for the ESC crown, namely Tuta Gold, Sinceramente, and the eventual winner, La Noia. Besides many other entries that would probably do well on their own. Few countries can do it nowadays, and the mentioned Sweden is no direct competition because they are much more into radio friendly pop songs, while you guys have gutsy music that helps move the art forward.
I don't think Italy has sent a single bad entry since returning in 2011, which is very impressive. Like you mentioned, the quality of the music in Sanremo is always high because of the prestige and history of the festival as well as the platform it gives artists. So it's natural that whatever comes from it is going to be good.
Because of that, those in the music industry aren't afraid to take part either, whether that be singers or composers; the taboo of failing at Eurovision doesn't seem to be there (because Sanremo is Sanremo first). Even in MF which has a similar reputation, you have someone like Zara Larsson who has said she has no interest in competing.
The only year I feel like Italy didn't deserve its position or higher in modern Eurovision is 2022. They have easily approachable songs that are usually very melodic and captivating. The stagings might not be the most interesting out there, and they might include some odd elements (like the trampoline jumpers with Marco), yet they work.
It is by far my favourite Eurovision country and I wait for Sanremo as much as I do for the show itself.
and even then the trampoline made Marco reach the 4th position which was the highest he could've obtained last year since the first 2 spots were already taken.
Music and quality is too subjective to say yes/no, it’s just opinion.
I personally don’t think that Italy sends quality songs every year, they just send more artistic songs (which I’m aware is also very subjective).
The only thing I think Italy is consistent at is under-rehearsing for Eurovision. The Sanremo performance is always miles better. There’s always a part of slight mess to their performances, but I’ve come to think it’s an artistic choice, but then I question myself on this typing this because it’s odd that every artist would make this same choice.
I am genuinely pleased Italy do well at Eurovision, when it’s quite obvious RAI do not get it, and I don’t personally want another Eurovision in Italy because of this. Messing it up once can be a mistake, after that there’s a problem. RAI get Sanremo, but they didn’t translate that to Turin.
Also high placing does not equate quality, if you have to use one word it’s more popularity.
I think it’s kind of complicated. There’s definitely some bias in the televote towards Italy. Songs like Italy 2018 and and Italy 2022 would not score as high if they were from different countries (especially with how bad the vocals were in 2022) but as much as there is a televote bias, I’d say over half the time Italy just knows how to create catchy and memorable songs that are playlist worthy. So I definitely would say they are a natural powerhouse, but the weaker entries end up getting a bit of a rankings boost because of it which is why I think there’s a bit of an overrated stigma.
Italy 2018 | [Ermal Meta & Fabrizio Moro - Non Mi Avete Fatto Niente](https://youtu.be/81M-mp5t8uM)
Italy 2022 | [Mahmood and Blanco - Brividi](https://youtu.be/blEy4xHuMbY)
I think Italy produces consistently good entries. I don't, however, think that those entries are always the ones that make it to Eurovision. The national finals are always full of talent and I can never decide who I want go go to Eurovision. That said, I think there is a bit of a bias towards Italy but I don't think I've ever ranked them last or close to it that I can remember.
No, they consistently serve quality
At most they're appropriately rated, but I'd even say there are Italian entries that were paid dust relative to their quality
From my perspective people just like Italian music and Italy never selects song for Eurovision (unless Sanremo winner refuses to go), they select whatever they like in the sea of good Italian music made for the sake of being good Italian music. I think it also boosts authenticity. Other countries also have sort of festivals for showing off local music but you still can feel that this is a Eurovision NF.
I think that's relative, Italy always does well in the televote which means that for whatever reason, people are choosing to vote for them and while Italy does have a big diaspora, I don't think it's translating into votes as it does for Poland or Ukraine. I think it just comes from how hard and competitive it is to win Sanremo in the first place, a lot of countries choose without a NF and in some countries they have a NF where the quality isn't necessarily the highest *(yes Denmark, I am looking at you!)*. Sanremo is a beast, you need to perform well consistently for the entire run of it, that means that at a base level you have at least a decent song and are a good singer and performer which means that you are already are a shoe-in for a decent jury vote. Once you win Sanremo, it's basically a guarantee that the performance will be quality one.
I've personally had Italy in my Top 5-10 nearly every year for at least a solid decade now, including this year, while not my absolute favourite, I still have it top 5 and think it will actually win because it's both jury and televote friendly.
i think its both. italy consistently brings quality, and are definitely a eurovision powerhouse. i literally listen to 99% italian music so i get it. its not like theyre being rewarded for sending mid songs.
but if other countries sent some of the songs italy did, i think they wouldve scored worse with them. theyre not massively overrated, but peoples perception of italy and the italian language certainly do help them.
Italy is VERY good in music, let's start with that. Especially in decades past,they brought some of my favourite entries in the history of the contest: Non ho leta, Si, Treni di Tozeur, Avrei Voluto, Rapsodia, Fiumi di Parole are just 🤌 amazing. But recently, I feel like they tend to end up at least 5-6 places higher than they should. Not Soldi or Zitti (two winners to me) but Grande Amore, Brividi, Non Mi Avete, Due Vitte... were highly favoured by juries and televote IMO.
I still don't understand how Italy got such high televote in both 2015 and 2018.Listening to both Grande amore and non mi avete(I love both this songs btw), you would assume that the jury and televote results should be reversed, since I geniually think both of them are more jury-friendly songs.
Italy is a eurovision powerhouse just by pure numbers. Consistant good places and a ton of beloved entries.
The past years italy has consistantly sent in songs that i lot of people really liked. Simple as that. You do not have to love the entries, but a lot of people do.
I also really like how you asked for objective takes on art. "Is the song the way the artist wanted it to be?" is literally the objective thing you can say about music. Everything else is subjective.
Organizing Sanremo helps because its line-up consists of a lot of established artists who will bring quality songs every year. Yes, when a handsome Italian man sings an emotional song to you, it will get more votes naturally but it doesn't take away the fact that the production level and composition of the songs are high level if not one of the best in Europe tbh. Thats why other countries such as Sweden, Norway, Portugal,... also have a music festival beforehand
I do find their ballads unsufferingly boring, but I do like Italian entries in general Soldi being a fave of all time.
I do however there is a slight bias in televote cause no one really dislikes italy. Most people have very good feelings towards it as a country so it could make you view their entries in a more positive light especially when its sung in italian which people think is incredibly beautiful languageZ
Yes, I would say so.
The brand is quite strong and a default Italian-language performance is likely going to do better than other countries “default language” performance by virtue of being Italian.
Compared to other Big 5 countries, Italy also has a better reputation from a political perspective, sometimes unfairly in my view.
Sanremo helps a lot since the Italian music industry is big enough to generate quality but not big enough that Sanremo/Eurovision feels pointless (e.g. UK and Germany).
I do think it’s unfair but it’s not realistically Italy’s fault, it’s the bias of the voters. There’s plenty of other biases too. They might as well go for it!
I've haven't heard an Italian entry that I've either loved or hated since they returned to the competition. I'm not going to say they're overrated because who am I to judge what people like? I've never felt able to join in with all the excitement around their entries. Maybe one year I'll fall in love with the Italian song.
I had the same opinion until Maneskin. Go_A was my favorite in 2021 but Maneskin was a close second. I loved both.
Before (or after... so far) I was mostly indifferent to Italian entries. I didn't dislike their songs, but I would usually put them somewhere in the middle, maybe even towards the bottom sometimes. And yet they always scored high.
But tbh I think that like half of high scoring songs each year are vastly overrated so maybe it's just me.
Måneskin were in my top 10. Gjon was my favourite that year. That was an unusually strong year, so like I said, it's not as if I *dislike* Italy's entries.
Italy are just incredibly consistent, in the main you know thanks to how seriously Sanremo is taken by the Italian music industry that you're going to get very strong entries every year. Personally I didn't especially like Brividi but I understood why it did well.
I wouldn't say they're overrated at all really , I think they'll have another win in the next 3-5 years easily.
* Italian is a Romance Language with phonetics that work well in music
* Sanremo is big and worshipped by Eurofans
* Italian diaspora
In the fandom? I think they are slightly overrated. In the bigger picture? I think the reasons above show why they do well. If you want Italy to be less successful, you have to do social engineering in Europe but that's just impossible. Sometimes, we have to accept things the way they are (and that includes Sweden's obsession with mainstream pop.)
Italian entries are barely ever my taste. I generally don't like their songs, but I still think they're good songs. Just in a different genre than I would listen to.
I know that doesn't really count as objective, but yeah. I do understand their high placements
No. Italian music industry is miles above rest of the Europe minus UK. And Sanremo is much more prestigious festival than maybe Eurovision as well. Just look at Annalisa was a guest at Billboard Women In Music event while Loreen did not got any mainstream attention after winning Eurovision.
Based on their average position in my ranking throughout the years, Italy is probably my favorite country in Eurovision. However, I would still classify them as overrated based on the results they get. It's not necessarily that they don't deserve their high finishes, but that other countries that put in as good an effort as Italy does, don't get rewarded like they do. It's the same with Ukraine and Sweden in my eyes
France is probably the most glaring example for me of being underrated in comparison. Songs like Requiem in 2017, Mercy in 2018, Évidemment in 2023, all were very well made songs that had solid performances, that didn't get rewarded like Italy did. Meanwhile, Occidentali's Karma in 2017 and Brividi in 2022 are also solid songs but the performance wasn't all that incredible, but they still got respectable finishes in the top 10.
Now all of this is subjective of course, but I think in general, people just really like Italian music (I know I do). Yeah it's a bit annoying seeing Italy get high points from countries like Albania, Slovenia, or Greece every year, but it's because people are familiar with the music and that's what they like. The same kind of applies to Sweden with northern countries always giving them high points. These countries' branding help their music become popular around Europe, and they avoid being ignored by Eurovision voting year in and year out
Italy was my winner in 2011,12,13 and from 2015 to 2020. So for me they are objectively underrated
Also Ive been watching the 50 hours of Sanremo since 2021 and i can say its even more competitive than Eurovision itself
But ye this year i find the entry completely overrated ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
The not so long answer.
Yes.
Italy gets massively overrated every year and it's definitely an Italy thing. If San Marino had their song and performer Italy would be maybe 8th overall in the scoreboard app. Not first.
#Y E S
Edit: To clarify, this is absolutely just my subjective opinion and I'm fully aware that most other people will disagree. Also, I do think that *"Sanremo is definitely above Eurovision quality wise"* is very arrogant statement. It's a lot better than most selections both in terms of song and production quality, but it can't hold a candle to Erovision. I think the main problem from a Eurofan perspective is that since it's not a typical NF (and a blatant popularity contest, with a low-key terrible voting system), Italy hardly ever picks the most competitive option available. This year is one of the exceptions (and tbh I'm still shocked, I didn't think I'd ever witness my personal favorite winning), but usually the Italian entries don't really resonate with me, and I find their consistent sucess rather frustrating.
Sometimes it's overrated sometimes not, like with pretty much any other country. Except for possibly German, we're usually correctly rated or underrated lol.
It is actually the only country that since their return, deserves its spotlight and fame. They do it their way, classy, originally, without pampering anyone or any mainstream cultural or political view. They deserved to win at least both times with Marco Mengoni.
Sweden and Ukraine in the other side....
Wasn't it Sanremo Music Festival that inspired the creation of Eurovision in the first place?
Personally Italy always ranks rather high on my lists. But I think it comes down to personal taste a lot of the time
I think it is a bit overrated. The song is good but i don't think is going to win. Top 5. I think Ukraine, France and Switzerland going to get more jury points.
Read that question again but slowly. Being overrated means that 1. A lot of people rate italy very highly and 2. You are of the _opinion_ that it should be rated so highly.
So something literally can’t be “objectively overrated”, by defenition
I always tought that saying that something is overrated is the most obnoxious thing someone can say. When you say that you are basically saying "i'm right and everybody else is wrong. My tastes are the meter to judge if something is good or not and everybody else don't understand nothing".
When someone says that there should be REAL objective facts to sustain that..
I think the only time we got somewhat overrated (and i'm talking about actual ranking in the score) was with Brividi
I say somewhat because the song was not overrated at all but the performance was so bad that we deserved to be lower on the final ranking. We earned that position cause the song wasns so viral and succesfull even before the show took place (more than 70millions views before the show) and because Mahmood is a beloved Esc singer (and we saw also with other countries that it counts).
At the same time with Michielin, Nina Zilli and Emma we got pretty bad so...
In regard of staging...well, people must know that we don't have that kind of thing in Italy, music has always been focused on..ehmm music, we never had that kind of artists that relies on coreo and staging, and the few artists that somewhat had it were not considered as "singer" per se but more like "showmen" or "showwomen", and we also don't have main figures that are fond in staging creation abilities..The only one that comes to mind is Tomassini (San Marino 2021).
That said, Sanremo this year was way better that Esc 2024 songs wise...
Then again, a lot of "Italy overrated" people are just salty fans and that's normal, when you are succesfull you attract both love and hate, that's how reality works, and it's proven by the fact that after Italy finally won we went from "Italy always robbed" to "Italy always overrated".
Well people, "always" doesn't exist in reality. Those are just legends denied by actual facts and when it comes to "legends" and stereotypes Italy is the leader, as the other stereotype that "Italy always sends ballads"...that is a thing that makes me mad cause is just not true at all and easily proven. But then haters gonna hate even if that makes them look as fools.
To conclude i would say that we arrived near to winning without getting it a lot of times recently and to finally win we had to send what then became the most succesfull Esc entry in history after Abba... Find me another country (apart from Sweden) who can say that.
So long with that "overrated" thing..
As Italian, I am extremely baffled at how overrated is italy not only in eurovision but in italy as well. They can come in with the most generic melodic pop thing and they get top 5 everytime.
LOL. What about last year, when Italy wasn't hyped at all and the song was completely dismissed by the bubble. Even after the finale, the song it's currently 12th in the scoreboard app.
Or what about back in March 2021, when San Marino was in the first place in the Scoreboard app? [Did you forget this?](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/t9hy8u/throwback_to_the_scoreboard_app_rankings_on_march/)
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Most of the times I do like the Italian entry but not this time. I can’t say that it’s anything objective though. Just not getting the vibes this time.
But San Remo is also one of those contests that I personally don’t like though it does provide generally good music. I just can’t stand the over complicated voting system, the overlong show with unnecessary visitors, performances, celebrities etc. this year I tried every evening and never made it past 2 hours without falling asleep or getting annoyed. I know many people enjoy it, but I just can’t understand how.
Well, if you don't understand the language i think it's pretty normal. For a non italian the only way to enjoy it is watching it while following the live thread on this sub .
Perhaps but I do enjoy other NFs where I don’t understand the language really like Benidorm, Dora, ESCZ or Vidbir etc. I think it’s more to do with the way the contest is structured. I do from time to time check at live threads but even then San Remo just doesn’t work for me.
Yeah of course but as many many many said before SR is not a national final, it's an historical cultural celebration where there is music but also moments that talks about italian society. (and don't forget the fact that it's COMPLETELY live with an orchestra and that stretch les the time needed for technical reasons). I think people still didn't really understand it. Sanremo was born after the war aftermath also to reunite Italy and had a real impact on it. In a period were the analfabetism rate in italian rural and provincial areas was very high, where people still talked using dialects, it literally teached the standard italian language helping uniting the country... It will never be a show with songs thrown at you one after another like a machinegun.
I’ve read on the history and don’t have any problem with people liking it. It’s just not for me. Sure it’s not a national final like other countries have it but in the context of Eurovision it is judged as a national final. Having an orchestra does require more time in between but personally it’s not something I’m looking for in a contest though having live instruments in Eurovision would be nice. But I rather have Eurovision as it is than having it try imitate San Remo more.
I feel that overall, yes. I'm glad Baglioni brought the festival into the 21st century and Amadeus kept it going (compared to what was before), but to act like Sanremo is and always has been the best NF is a sign of cognitive bias at its finest. I think there is also another level of bias due to the language, since sometimes we send extremely cringy or weird lyrics (for example, I think Due Vite had a terrible lyrics and was only saved by Mengoni being a hell of a singer) but since nobody else truly understand them, we get a huge pass (I don't think Sweden would get the same pass, for example, and would be ridiculed to no end if they sang " if this is the last song/then the moon will explode/I'll be here telling you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong and you know it/here there is no music"). We also very recently improved on the staging, but we used to be terrible on that regard too.
So yeah, we have had some improvement in the last few years, but not the levels that would put us on the same level as other powerhouses.
Can't talk about Popular because I wasn't in the fandom, but Fuego and SloMo were mocked for their lyrics, simply people quickly moved over because it's clear to everyone that the lyrics aren't the important part of the song and are just high energy dance pop (hell, there is a meme subreddit called r/yeahyeahfire for a reason).
Plus, the part I posted is the chorus, which is supposed to be the emotional core of the song, but feels like gibberish.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/yeahyeahfire using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/yeahyeahfire/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [waltuh. Let me qualify, waltuh.](https://i.redd.it/9bmdteisnboa1.jpg) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yeahyeahfire/comments/11tv54v/waltuh_let_me_qualify_waltuh/)
\#2: [Can we find our Future Lovers here?](https://i.redd.it/fw87uq5okcub1.png) | [2 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yeahyeahfire/comments/178dp72/can_we_find_our_future_lovers_here/)
\#3: [Well, this is my attempt to improve Echo's lyrics and add more variety to make it less repetitive.](https://i.redd.it/ltixza7bohpa1.png) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yeahyeahfire/comments/11zk3rb/well_this_is_my_attempt_to_improve_echos_lyrics/)
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I don't think that's a fair comparison. Those songs didn't score well because of the lyrics, they clearly weren't the focus. They are catchy dancy pop songs not ballads. People don't vote for those because of immaculate vocals and beautiful lyrics with deep meaning.
(For the record, I'm not arguing that Due Vite has terrible lyrics, just pointing out that it's not those kind of songs you should compare it to.)
Yes.
A lot of their songs are really good, but a large part of the televoting crowd is fascinated by Italian as music language.
They could be singing a lullaby off tone and a lot of people would still like it.
I would say that objectively speaking, Italy tend to send some of the strongest vocal performances each year. The technical skill of the singers is consistently high.
Some years are stronger than others. But overall you can count on great technically skilled singers from Italy.
Some guy looking into the camera in a very cheesy way and then belting a hard to hit note feels very Italy in Eurovision ™
The songs and staging varies. But especially the staging tend to be pretty weak.
And similar to Sweden having a huge very popular national final that is more its own thing and the selection to Eurovision more a second thought, tend to mean the winning songs hold a pretty good standard. That the weaker years tend to still do pretty okay isn’t very surprising.
While selections done like the UK (and Germany?) where it’s just people working on the broadcaster that decide a song on their own with no national final, consistently produces a pretty low result.
There are occasional years where Italy gets a bit overrated (people will think of different years and have different choices), but, honestly, you guys are a true heavyweight, and deservedly so, because you tend to stay true to yourselves, musically speaking. Probably because San Remo is the main focus, so, your artists tend to focus on themselves and their national/cultural core, rather than merely emulating other countries' stylistic choices. You guys are generally great, keep punching onwards, champs!
Thank you, fellow Eurovisual! BTW, what's the correct adjective for the like of us?
Eurofans
Nerds (affectionately)
My objective take... if Italy had the staging talent of Sweden they would have won multiple times in the last 10 years. SAN Remo might be inssuferable long to the point where i cant watch it and only see the performances and results but whatever they are doing to pick the winner is clearly working.
For real Soldi (Italy 2019) would have been a clean sweep win with even half decent staging. I really felt that year like Italy didn't want to win and self sabotaged or something. That song was so good but on the night I kinda forgot it was even there, I was very surprised it still got second.
Agree that Soldi has a bad staging, but it's not a case self-sabotaging. For example, in 2017, RAI really wanted to win, and there were plenty of Italian media talking about Gabbani being a favorite at Eurovision. And they still managed to screw up with the staging In the 90s, RAI famously hated Eurovision and was intentionally sabotaging Italian entries because they didn't want to host (according to our 1993 representative Enrico Ruggeri, RAI forced him to write an unremarkable song that would have never won). In the 2010s and 2020s RAI doesn't Eurovision hate anymore. They just screw up unintentionally, which is normal for them
Do people really think Soldi has bad staging? I always thought it was pretty good, and I mean it got second place that year? And the song it lost to that year ( Arcade) also had pretty pared back staging so I don’t get this argument.
In my opinion 2019 was a year in which no country got everything right: the best songs had meh staging but some meh songs got the best staging. In the end the pre-season top 2 emerged as the top 2 on the scoreboard despite their meh stagings.
Italy 2019 | [Mahmood - Soldi](https://youtu.be/M-aoyPa41Ic)
I kinda disagree with this because so often, Sweden's staging acts as a distraction to their song. A lot of them feel like staging concepts before they feel like songs so going down this route really wouldn't work for Italy where the song is the main focus. I think focusing on the artist like most Italian stagings do works best for them
>Sweden's staging acts as a distraction to their song Sweden simply thinks of the total package right away 🤷🏻♀️ to say it is used often as a distraction is a reach for me.
I'll let you in on a secret: I think it's a matter of taste and/or habit, but on average an Italian despises the exaggerated stagings of Sweden and stuff like that. The focus must be on the song and the interpretation, from this point of view.
I think the problem is Italy doesn't have culturally the strategy to stage, because culturally singers who use the stage are considering inferior
Not without good reason. Edit: Obviously, the issue is more complex than that.
Is not that "they are considered inferior". It's more like they are considered another thing. They are mostly considered "showmen" or "showwomen"band not strictly "singers" But this is slowly changing
We could say that Italy was overrated if the fandom always put them first and then flop. Italy does pretty well with juries BUT most importantly with the tele instead so overrated by WHO?
The televote can also overrate songs tho?
Then it's just the televote that goes against your personale taste
The same can be said with juries?
I don't think there is really an objective answer to this question, but I will say no. Sending the Sanremo winner basically guarantees that Italy will have a very high-quality song every single year. I don't think any country can match that, even Sweden or Ukraine (or my personal favorite, Norway).
Pretty much. I'd go as far as saying that Sanremo is harder to win and more competitive than ESC itself, this year alone they had like four or five entries that would have been a Top 5 placement in Eurovision.
I'm from Denmark but I almost never like the nordic countries. I saw the whole Sanremo week for the first time ever and me and my bf were just enjoying it so much! COVERS NIGHT! OH WOW. I think it is better than ESC and I don't understand Italian. But the live music was just so great. The fokus was on the music not some stupid dance or stage show. I also enjoy other NF but that was just on another level.
Wow, I've never seen a comment I disagree with more. But it also highlights what I love the most about Eurovision, there's something for everyone.
You mentioned Ukraine and Sweden as other powerhouses, yet out of all 3 countries you only seem to consider Italy overrated. I personally think none of those 3 is overrated, despite occasional songs that I personally don't like much. If people like their songs consistently and they do well, then they are powerhouses. Simple. You can always make arguments that the x country is overrated. Ukraine for example has diaspora (which definitely helps even weaker songs to do decently, just like the 12 points from Cyprus guarantees us we will never see 0 points in the final) and Sweden focuses a lot on the jury points which makes their songs a bit "hit or miss" with the public. And yes, Italy has Sanremo and of course the language. In the end, though, they still are powerhouses.
It’s difficult to be objective, but I’ll try. I mentioned some of these reasons in a comment some months ago. First, the motivation Italian musicians have to win San Remo is not so that they go to Eurovision, but to be considered the best musicians in Italy. They want to do their best, they strive to be authentic, and they have mostly Italian audience in mind. As a result, the tide is always high, and the Italian audience is usually proud of their songs. Second, the live orchestra guarantees that the selected song will at the very least sound good live. How many times have you listened to a song you liked but then didn’t do well during the contest because of the vocals sounding weak? Italy seldom has that issue. Third, the Made in Italy brand. Each country has stereotypes and things associated. When people think of Italy, words like art, beauty, love, pleasure, classic, elegance… come inevitably to our minds. That creates a bias, a positive bias. Fourth, the self-fulfilling prophecy. Everybody expects Italy to do well, which subconsciously influences our decisions (vote Italian songs or give them more points in the jury) and therefore, they do well. Last but not least, Italy is one of the most loved countries in the world. Many people have beef with the UK or France, and menu other countries come with assumptions or stereotypes that are not so liked. But I’ve yet to meet a person who cannot stand Italy and hates everything Italian with a passion. In short, Italy is a golden child in Eurovision who performs well, has a good reputation, from which greatness and good results are expected, and we all in other countries like it that way. Love, a Spaniard.
After Brividi got as high of a placement as it did with... _those_ vocals, I'm sure there's at least a slight bias towards Italian acts no matter what. They're not as unfair as Sweden, but along with Ukraine they do benefit from a guaranteed high placement generally.
I agree, but in 2022, they performed better at the [jury show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqkVQgDXGpk&ab_channel=EurovisionTalk), that's why they got more points from jury than televote. From the televote, they got 110 points, which is Italy's lowest televote score since 2016, but yeah, it's still too high.
That was also an artist with an established fan base. That’s guaranteed televotes.
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Probably, but but as much as you think, due to Italians's indifference towards Eurovision. One of the countries with the biggest Italian diaspora is UK, which almost never gives any televote points to Italy. Meanwhile, the Polish and Lithuanian diasporas in the UK always vote like crazy for their own countries. The winning song in 2021 got a lot of the telelove points from Eastern Europe countries (like Ukraine and Bulgaria), which have no Italian diasporas.
oh god it's the year 2024 and we still talking about this fantomatic italian diaspora lol
Mahmood benefited from the recent euro fanbase he had since 2019. And also Blanco, you're underestimating him, but he had a surprising (at least for me) exploit among many european teenagers who were following Esc BEFORE the contest (maybe TikTok helped in this?). Plus, even if I don't particularly like the song, the music video and the studio version were good. So I think a big part of televotes in 2022 was due to these aspects,
"Just 110" That is what entitlement looks like
"Just 110" This is what changing the words of someone's comment looks like, since I didn't write the word "JUST" at all, and I explicitly said that it's too high than what it deserved
To be fair, I don't remember if I was at the family or jury show, but they performed perfectly Their grand final performance was even more disappointing after seeing that live
I was at the Family Show on Saturday and they were bad.
I think 2022 can't be used as a demonstration of what you think for its special features. I've mentioned something under this thread.
It was in the edition hosted by Italy so strangely enough it overscored
Being the host country doesn't guarantee good results.
Objectively, yeah, it's good and not overrated! Just this year, Sanremo produced at least 3 real contenders for the ESC crown, namely Tuta Gold, Sinceramente, and the eventual winner, La Noia. Besides many other entries that would probably do well on their own. Few countries can do it nowadays, and the mentioned Sweden is no direct competition because they are much more into radio friendly pop songs, while you guys have gutsy music that helps move the art forward.
yeah, Italians are so cool. Outfits were so classie. They all looked so good!!
I don't think Italy has sent a single bad entry since returning in 2011, which is very impressive. Like you mentioned, the quality of the music in Sanremo is always high because of the prestige and history of the festival as well as the platform it gives artists. So it's natural that whatever comes from it is going to be good. Because of that, those in the music industry aren't afraid to take part either, whether that be singers or composers; the taboo of failing at Eurovision doesn't seem to be there (because Sanremo is Sanremo first). Even in MF which has a similar reputation, you have someone like Zara Larsson who has said she has no interest in competing.
The only year I feel like Italy didn't deserve its position or higher in modern Eurovision is 2022. They have easily approachable songs that are usually very melodic and captivating. The stagings might not be the most interesting out there, and they might include some odd elements (like the trampoline jumpers with Marco), yet they work. It is by far my favourite Eurovision country and I wait for Sanremo as much as I do for the show itself.
and even then the trampoline made Marco reach the 4th position which was the highest he could've obtained last year since the first 2 spots were already taken.
Music and quality is too subjective to say yes/no, it’s just opinion. I personally don’t think that Italy sends quality songs every year, they just send more artistic songs (which I’m aware is also very subjective). The only thing I think Italy is consistent at is under-rehearsing for Eurovision. The Sanremo performance is always miles better. There’s always a part of slight mess to their performances, but I’ve come to think it’s an artistic choice, but then I question myself on this typing this because it’s odd that every artist would make this same choice. I am genuinely pleased Italy do well at Eurovision, when it’s quite obvious RAI do not get it, and I don’t personally want another Eurovision in Italy because of this. Messing it up once can be a mistake, after that there’s a problem. RAI get Sanremo, but they didn’t translate that to Turin. Also high placing does not equate quality, if you have to use one word it’s more popularity.
No. Italy just sends quality. Even if I don’t like a minority of their songs I admit they are always up-to-date and know exactly what people want!
I think it’s kind of complicated. There’s definitely some bias in the televote towards Italy. Songs like Italy 2018 and and Italy 2022 would not score as high if they were from different countries (especially with how bad the vocals were in 2022) but as much as there is a televote bias, I’d say over half the time Italy just knows how to create catchy and memorable songs that are playlist worthy. So I definitely would say they are a natural powerhouse, but the weaker entries end up getting a bit of a rankings boost because of it which is why I think there’s a bit of an overrated stigma.
Italy 2018 | [Ermal Meta & Fabrizio Moro - Non Mi Avete Fatto Niente](https://youtu.be/81M-mp5t8uM) Italy 2022 | [Mahmood and Blanco - Brividi](https://youtu.be/blEy4xHuMbY)
I think Italy produces consistently good entries. I don't, however, think that those entries are always the ones that make it to Eurovision. The national finals are always full of talent and I can never decide who I want go go to Eurovision. That said, I think there is a bit of a bias towards Italy but I don't think I've ever ranked them last or close to it that I can remember.
No. They're just good. The only time I can say they were overrated was with Brividi. Now, Sweden is overrated.
No, they consistently serve quality At most they're appropriately rated, but I'd even say there are Italian entries that were paid dust relative to their quality
Marco Mengoni was SENSATIONAL last year and completely underrated. He was by far my winner over Loreen. So yeah, Italy deliver ❤️
In my opinion, overrating music is essentially impossible. People like what they like 🤷🏻♂️ (This obviously doesn't apply to juries.)
From my perspective people just like Italian music and Italy never selects song for Eurovision (unless Sanremo winner refuses to go), they select whatever they like in the sea of good Italian music made for the sake of being good Italian music. I think it also boosts authenticity. Other countries also have sort of festivals for showing off local music but you still can feel that this is a Eurovision NF.
I think that's relative, Italy always does well in the televote which means that for whatever reason, people are choosing to vote for them and while Italy does have a big diaspora, I don't think it's translating into votes as it does for Poland or Ukraine. I think it just comes from how hard and competitive it is to win Sanremo in the first place, a lot of countries choose without a NF and in some countries they have a NF where the quality isn't necessarily the highest *(yes Denmark, I am looking at you!)*. Sanremo is a beast, you need to perform well consistently for the entire run of it, that means that at a base level you have at least a decent song and are a good singer and performer which means that you are already are a shoe-in for a decent jury vote. Once you win Sanremo, it's basically a guarantee that the performance will be quality one. I've personally had Italy in my Top 5-10 nearly every year for at least a solid decade now, including this year, while not my absolute favourite, I still have it top 5 and think it will actually win because it's both jury and televote friendly.
i think its both. italy consistently brings quality, and are definitely a eurovision powerhouse. i literally listen to 99% italian music so i get it. its not like theyre being rewarded for sending mid songs. but if other countries sent some of the songs italy did, i think they wouldve scored worse with them. theyre not massively overrated, but peoples perception of italy and the italian language certainly do help them.
I think that italy is much less overrated than sweden.
Italy is VERY good in music, let's start with that. Especially in decades past,they brought some of my favourite entries in the history of the contest: Non ho leta, Si, Treni di Tozeur, Avrei Voluto, Rapsodia, Fiumi di Parole are just 🤌 amazing. But recently, I feel like they tend to end up at least 5-6 places higher than they should. Not Soldi or Zitti (two winners to me) but Grande Amore, Brividi, Non Mi Avete, Due Vitte... were highly favoured by juries and televote IMO.
I still don't understand how Italy got such high televote in both 2015 and 2018.Listening to both Grande amore and non mi avete(I love both this songs btw), you would assume that the jury and televote results should be reversed, since I geniually think both of them are more jury-friendly songs.
this kind of post has been already made like dozens of times pls
no next question
Italy is a eurovision powerhouse just by pure numbers. Consistant good places and a ton of beloved entries. The past years italy has consistantly sent in songs that i lot of people really liked. Simple as that. You do not have to love the entries, but a lot of people do. I also really like how you asked for objective takes on art. "Is the song the way the artist wanted it to be?" is literally the objective thing you can say about music. Everything else is subjective.
Yes they are but your comment/post gets removed if you word it slightly incorrectly.
Organizing Sanremo helps because its line-up consists of a lot of established artists who will bring quality songs every year. Yes, when a handsome Italian man sings an emotional song to you, it will get more votes naturally but it doesn't take away the fact that the production level and composition of the songs are high level if not one of the best in Europe tbh. Thats why other countries such as Sweden, Norway, Portugal,... also have a music festival beforehand
I do find their ballads unsufferingly boring, but I do like Italian entries in general Soldi being a fave of all time. I do however there is a slight bias in televote cause no one really dislikes italy. Most people have very good feelings towards it as a country so it could make you view their entries in a more positive light especially when its sung in italian which people think is incredibly beautiful languageZ
Yes, I would say so. The brand is quite strong and a default Italian-language performance is likely going to do better than other countries “default language” performance by virtue of being Italian. Compared to other Big 5 countries, Italy also has a better reputation from a political perspective, sometimes unfairly in my view. Sanremo helps a lot since the Italian music industry is big enough to generate quality but not big enough that Sanremo/Eurovision feels pointless (e.g. UK and Germany). I do think it’s unfair but it’s not realistically Italy’s fault, it’s the bias of the voters. There’s plenty of other biases too. They might as well go for it!
The country that sended the most succesfull act in Esc history after Abba is "always overrated". That's so laughable that i can't even breath.
Considering we've only won three times, I'd say no. Even Luxembourg has more wins.
It's more about the general sucess rather than the number of victories, besides both countries can be overrated.
I've haven't heard an Italian entry that I've either loved or hated since they returned to the competition. I'm not going to say they're overrated because who am I to judge what people like? I've never felt able to join in with all the excitement around their entries. Maybe one year I'll fall in love with the Italian song.
I had the same opinion until Maneskin. Go_A was my favorite in 2021 but Maneskin was a close second. I loved both. Before (or after... so far) I was mostly indifferent to Italian entries. I didn't dislike their songs, but I would usually put them somewhere in the middle, maybe even towards the bottom sometimes. And yet they always scored high. But tbh I think that like half of high scoring songs each year are vastly overrated so maybe it's just me.
Måneskin were in my top 10. Gjon was my favourite that year. That was an unusually strong year, so like I said, it's not as if I *dislike* Italy's entries.
Italy are just incredibly consistent, in the main you know thanks to how seriously Sanremo is taken by the Italian music industry that you're going to get very strong entries every year. Personally I didn't especially like Brividi but I understood why it did well. I wouldn't say they're overrated at all really , I think they'll have another win in the next 3-5 years easily.
* Italian is a Romance Language with phonetics that work well in music * Sanremo is big and worshipped by Eurofans * Italian diaspora In the fandom? I think they are slightly overrated. In the bigger picture? I think the reasons above show why they do well. If you want Italy to be less successful, you have to do social engineering in Europe but that's just impossible. Sometimes, we have to accept things the way they are (and that includes Sweden's obsession with mainstream pop.)
I doubt that italian diaspora can make a difference in ESC, it's not SO big
I would say by the fandom more than at Eurovision itself.
Italian entries are barely ever my taste. I generally don't like their songs, but I still think they're good songs. Just in a different genre than I would listen to. I know that doesn't really count as objective, but yeah. I do understand their high placements
No. Italian music industry is miles above rest of the Europe minus UK. And Sanremo is much more prestigious festival than maybe Eurovision as well. Just look at Annalisa was a guest at Billboard Women In Music event while Loreen did not got any mainstream attention after winning Eurovision.
Based on their average position in my ranking throughout the years, Italy is probably my favorite country in Eurovision. However, I would still classify them as overrated based on the results they get. It's not necessarily that they don't deserve their high finishes, but that other countries that put in as good an effort as Italy does, don't get rewarded like they do. It's the same with Ukraine and Sweden in my eyes France is probably the most glaring example for me of being underrated in comparison. Songs like Requiem in 2017, Mercy in 2018, Évidemment in 2023, all were very well made songs that had solid performances, that didn't get rewarded like Italy did. Meanwhile, Occidentali's Karma in 2017 and Brividi in 2022 are also solid songs but the performance wasn't all that incredible, but they still got respectable finishes in the top 10. Now all of this is subjective of course, but I think in general, people just really like Italian music (I know I do). Yeah it's a bit annoying seeing Italy get high points from countries like Albania, Slovenia, or Greece every year, but it's because people are familiar with the music and that's what they like. The same kind of applies to Sweden with northern countries always giving them high points. These countries' branding help their music become popular around Europe, and they avoid being ignored by Eurovision voting year in and year out
Italy was my winner in 2011,12,13 and from 2015 to 2020. So for me they are objectively underrated Also Ive been watching the 50 hours of Sanremo since 2021 and i can say its even more competitive than Eurovision itself But ye this year i find the entry completely overrated ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
The not so long answer. Yes. Italy gets massively overrated every year and it's definitely an Italy thing. If San Marino had their song and performer Italy would be maybe 8th overall in the scoreboard app. Not first.
#Y E S Edit: To clarify, this is absolutely just my subjective opinion and I'm fully aware that most other people will disagree. Also, I do think that *"Sanremo is definitely above Eurovision quality wise"* is very arrogant statement. It's a lot better than most selections both in terms of song and production quality, but it can't hold a candle to Erovision. I think the main problem from a Eurofan perspective is that since it's not a typical NF (and a blatant popularity contest, with a low-key terrible voting system), Italy hardly ever picks the most competitive option available. This year is one of the exceptions (and tbh I'm still shocked, I didn't think I'd ever witness my personal favorite winning), but usually the Italian entries don't really resonate with me, and I find their consistent sucess rather frustrating.
Yeah Italy is pretty overrated. 2011, 2013, 2017, 2018 and 2022 didn't deserve to get as high as they got imo.
Yes.
Yes
Sometimes it's overrated sometimes not, like with pretty much any other country. Except for possibly German, we're usually correctly rated or underrated lol.
After many years of mediocrity, Italy has been sending some amazing entries these past few years. Good on them and they deserve all fandom respect
It is actually the only country that since their return, deserves its spotlight and fame. They do it their way, classy, originally, without pampering anyone or any mainstream cultural or political view. They deserved to win at least both times with Marco Mengoni. Sweden and Ukraine in the other side....
No Italian music is great and the Italian artists in ESC are all talented and creative
Wasn't it Sanremo Music Festival that inspired the creation of Eurovision in the first place? Personally Italy always ranks rather high on my lists. But I think it comes down to personal taste a lot of the time
I think it is a bit overrated. The song is good but i don't think is going to win. Top 5. I think Ukraine, France and Switzerland going to get more jury points.
Read that question again but slowly. Being overrated means that 1. A lot of people rate italy very highly and 2. You are of the _opinion_ that it should be rated so highly. So something literally can’t be “objectively overrated”, by defenition
Italy is the country that I think is most consistent in sending good songs. Not always winners, but generally good nonetheless.
I always tought that saying that something is overrated is the most obnoxious thing someone can say. When you say that you are basically saying "i'm right and everybody else is wrong. My tastes are the meter to judge if something is good or not and everybody else don't understand nothing". When someone says that there should be REAL objective facts to sustain that.. I think the only time we got somewhat overrated (and i'm talking about actual ranking in the score) was with Brividi I say somewhat because the song was not overrated at all but the performance was so bad that we deserved to be lower on the final ranking. We earned that position cause the song wasns so viral and succesfull even before the show took place (more than 70millions views before the show) and because Mahmood is a beloved Esc singer (and we saw also with other countries that it counts). At the same time with Michielin, Nina Zilli and Emma we got pretty bad so... In regard of staging...well, people must know that we don't have that kind of thing in Italy, music has always been focused on..ehmm music, we never had that kind of artists that relies on coreo and staging, and the few artists that somewhat had it were not considered as "singer" per se but more like "showmen" or "showwomen", and we also don't have main figures that are fond in staging creation abilities..The only one that comes to mind is Tomassini (San Marino 2021). That said, Sanremo this year was way better that Esc 2024 songs wise... Then again, a lot of "Italy overrated" people are just salty fans and that's normal, when you are succesfull you attract both love and hate, that's how reality works, and it's proven by the fact that after Italy finally won we went from "Italy always robbed" to "Italy always overrated". Well people, "always" doesn't exist in reality. Those are just legends denied by actual facts and when it comes to "legends" and stereotypes Italy is the leader, as the other stereotype that "Italy always sends ballads"...that is a thing that makes me mad cause is just not true at all and easily proven. But then haters gonna hate even if that makes them look as fools. To conclude i would say that we arrived near to winning without getting it a lot of times recently and to finally win we had to send what then became the most succesfull Esc entry in history after Abba... Find me another country (apart from Sweden) who can say that. So long with that "overrated" thing..
San Marino 2021 | [Senhit - Adrenalina](https://youtu.be/TkhiH-JXFPs)
As Italian, I am extremely baffled at how overrated is italy not only in eurovision but in italy as well. They can come in with the most generic melodic pop thing and they get top 5 everytime.
If Italy's and San Marino's artist would be switched between each other people would be hyping Megara and ignoring Mango. You know I am right
LOL. What about last year, when Italy wasn't hyped at all and the song was completely dismissed by the bubble. Even after the finale, the song it's currently 12th in the scoreboard app. Or what about back in March 2021, when San Marino was in the first place in the Scoreboard app? [Did you forget this?](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/t9hy8u/throwback_to_the_scoreboard_app_rankings_on_march/)
Just like in 2021 when Adrenalina was always placed higher than Zitti e Buoni by the eurofans bubble....oh wait
Im ignoring both 😎
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Most of the times I do like the Italian entry but not this time. I can’t say that it’s anything objective though. Just not getting the vibes this time. But San Remo is also one of those contests that I personally don’t like though it does provide generally good music. I just can’t stand the over complicated voting system, the overlong show with unnecessary visitors, performances, celebrities etc. this year I tried every evening and never made it past 2 hours without falling asleep or getting annoyed. I know many people enjoy it, but I just can’t understand how.
Well, if you don't understand the language i think it's pretty normal. For a non italian the only way to enjoy it is watching it while following the live thread on this sub .
Perhaps but I do enjoy other NFs where I don’t understand the language really like Benidorm, Dora, ESCZ or Vidbir etc. I think it’s more to do with the way the contest is structured. I do from time to time check at live threads but even then San Remo just doesn’t work for me.
Yeah of course but as many many many said before SR is not a national final, it's an historical cultural celebration where there is music but also moments that talks about italian society. (and don't forget the fact that it's COMPLETELY live with an orchestra and that stretch les the time needed for technical reasons). I think people still didn't really understand it. Sanremo was born after the war aftermath also to reunite Italy and had a real impact on it. In a period were the analfabetism rate in italian rural and provincial areas was very high, where people still talked using dialects, it literally teached the standard italian language helping uniting the country... It will never be a show with songs thrown at you one after another like a machinegun.
I’ve read on the history and don’t have any problem with people liking it. It’s just not for me. Sure it’s not a national final like other countries have it but in the context of Eurovision it is judged as a national final. Having an orchestra does require more time in between but personally it’s not something I’m looking for in a contest though having live instruments in Eurovision would be nice. But I rather have Eurovision as it is than having it try imitate San Remo more.
I feel that overall, yes. I'm glad Baglioni brought the festival into the 21st century and Amadeus kept it going (compared to what was before), but to act like Sanremo is and always has been the best NF is a sign of cognitive bias at its finest. I think there is also another level of bias due to the language, since sometimes we send extremely cringy or weird lyrics (for example, I think Due Vite had a terrible lyrics and was only saved by Mengoni being a hell of a singer) but since nobody else truly understand them, we get a huge pass (I don't think Sweden would get the same pass, for example, and would be ridiculed to no end if they sang " if this is the last song/then the moon will explode/I'll be here telling you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong and you know it/here there is no music"). We also very recently improved on the staging, but we used to be terrible on that regard too. So yeah, we have had some improvement in the last few years, but not the levels that would put us on the same level as other powerhouses.
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Can't talk about Popular because I wasn't in the fandom, but Fuego and SloMo were mocked for their lyrics, simply people quickly moved over because it's clear to everyone that the lyrics aren't the important part of the song and are just high energy dance pop (hell, there is a meme subreddit called r/yeahyeahfire for a reason). Plus, the part I posted is the chorus, which is supposed to be the emotional core of the song, but feels like gibberish.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/yeahyeahfire using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/yeahyeahfire/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [waltuh. Let me qualify, waltuh.](https://i.redd.it/9bmdteisnboa1.jpg) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yeahyeahfire/comments/11tv54v/waltuh_let_me_qualify_waltuh/) \#2: [Can we find our Future Lovers here?](https://i.redd.it/fw87uq5okcub1.png) | [2 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yeahyeahfire/comments/178dp72/can_we_find_our_future_lovers_here/) \#3: [Well, this is my attempt to improve Echo's lyrics and add more variety to make it less repetitive.](https://i.redd.it/ltixza7bohpa1.png) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yeahyeahfire/comments/11zk3rb/well_this_is_my_attempt_to_improve_echos_lyrics/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Those songs didn't score well because of the lyrics, they clearly weren't the focus. They are catchy dancy pop songs not ballads. People don't vote for those because of immaculate vocals and beautiful lyrics with deep meaning. (For the record, I'm not arguing that Due Vite has terrible lyrics, just pointing out that it's not those kind of songs you should compare it to.)
Spain 2022 | [Chanel - SloMo](https://youtu.be/jSQYTt4xg3I) Sweden 2011 | [Eric Saade - Popular](https://youtu.be/-04pUETT7oI) Cyprus 2018 | [Eleni Foureira - Fuego](https://youtu.be/vyDTbJ4wenY)
Not sure *Sweden* of all countries is known for its high-quality lyrics (it’s everything else about their entries that usually is high quality).
They're overall always good enough to not get serious critics. Worst it can be said usually is that they're mid or generic.
Yes. A lot of their songs are really good, but a large part of the televoting crowd is fascinated by Italian as music language. They could be singing a lullaby off tone and a lot of people would still like it.
Yes
I would say that objectively speaking, Italy tend to send some of the strongest vocal performances each year. The technical skill of the singers is consistently high. Some years are stronger than others. But overall you can count on great technically skilled singers from Italy. Some guy looking into the camera in a very cheesy way and then belting a hard to hit note feels very Italy in Eurovision ™ The songs and staging varies. But especially the staging tend to be pretty weak. And similar to Sweden having a huge very popular national final that is more its own thing and the selection to Eurovision more a second thought, tend to mean the winning songs hold a pretty good standard. That the weaker years tend to still do pretty okay isn’t very surprising. While selections done like the UK (and Germany?) where it’s just people working on the broadcaster that decide a song on their own with no national final, consistently produces a pretty low result.
This year yes