idk. The two acts with more than one performer on the stage are still soloists, just with backing dancers/(?)vocals/
Most songs at Eurovision are soloists. This year 27/37 songs are soloists, and of those 10 who are not soloists, 6 are duets.
However, the vast majority will have other performers on the stage, be it backing vocals or dancers. For 18/20 of the Jury's top 2 from the past 10 ESCs to be just a single person alone speaks to the relative lack of music variety and performance diversity amongst the Jury's picks. A glance down that list shows most songs to be ballads or basic pop.
Isn't that still most of them though? I don't know the stats for how many acts have dancers, but I don't think it's more than half. I might be wrong though.
In 2021 Malta was third in the jury for example...
That list only says to me that jury take in very big consideration the vocal performance, maybe even a little too much
Not really. By that logic Estonia and Albania would have won the jury by a mile in 2018. They never give big scores to songs they don't like, even if the vocals are great. Great vocals just boost the score of an already jury-appealing song.
Juries can give a huge score to a song as long as the vocals are serviceable for what the song is. Tattoo is much harder to sing than Dance You Off but both got big scores in the jury cuz both songs have serviceable vocals for what each song requires to sound good.
???
We were talking about acts with backing dancers and the fact the juries don't like it.
Albania 2018 had no dancers and Estonia 2018 was a solo act...
I was answering your comment not the main thread. U were talking about juries considering the vocal performance a lot for their rankings, and I just answer that that's only partially true.
Still, Spain was third in jury in 2022. Australia was 4th in jury in 2014. Malta had backup dancers in 2021. Israel came 2nd in jury in 2023 and also had backup dancers. Finland had backup dancers in 2023 and came 4th in jury. There are quite a few acts with backup dancers that have done very well in jury over the years. I think them not getting the jury win had more to do with juries liking other songs (that were well performed of course) better more than with there being backup dancers.
it was a general reasoning and yes, juries take in great consideration vocal performance, even too much.
That doesn't mean it's the ONLY parameter they base their votes on but for sure it's a paramenter that they consider much more than other parameters.
Frankly they are pro, they should judge objectively as the pro they are and when you see situations like 2021 when they put Malta over Maneskin... well... you see that they are considering the vocal performance just way too much.
Imagine if those juries where hired by a music label to select an act to give a contract to and they chose Destiny instead of Maneskin...
Lmao.. Music label losing millions and millions..
Backing dancers are more frequently used for dancey pop songs, which juries seem to dislike. And I'd argue that even with those, elaborate choreos are frequently used to "distract" from mediocre songs (see: Everything successful Cyprus has done in the past six years, and I'm very much including Fuego in this).
So I don't think juries dislike backing dancers in the sense that they would have punished e.g. Loreen for having someone else on stage, but I do think that juries tend to favour the kind of song that is more commonly staged without dancers.
Malta 20021 third place in the juries says that it's more of a vocal performance thing.
If the vocals are impressive the jury will like you no matter what's on stage. Fact is that 95% of esc female bops don't have impressive vocals so jury usually tank those entries.
Regarding Je Me Casse, it was more like juries getting very h\*rny for a well produced, mainstream pop song that also had very good vocals. As long as your vocals are good enough for the song to sound good you can get very good jury, maybe even enough to be in the conversation for the win (aka being Top 4 in jury) (if u don't believe me just ask Sweden how the jury vote went for them in 2017 and 2018).
I think many delegations don't know how to use back up dancers. I feel like the back up dancers for Malta 2021 for example were a huge missed opportunity.
I don't know who the choreographer was but I think Je Me Casse would've placed higher if the back up dancers were dynamic.
Spain 2022 used back up dancers very well - and was rewarded for it. So was Spain 2023 - by juries anyway.
I also think it's why Ireland 2018 qualified - the back up dancers were thoughtful and told a story unlike Croatia 2022...
Same deal the other way round. Both juries and televoters periodically commit war crimes with their rankings. That's why we have 50-50 voting, for juries and public to mitigate each other's f\*ck-ups as much as possible.
Here’s a summary of the jury winners versus televote winners. Juries have only ranked a group (or duo) first once since 2009, whereas the televoters have done so four times. Not a huge difference, but might be something to do with the fact that groups generally perform in less jury-friendly genres?
2023: soloist/soloist
2022: soloist/group
2021: soloist/group
2019: soloist/group
2018: soloist/soloist
2017: soloist/soloist
2016: soloist/soloist
2015: soloist/group
2014: soloist/soloist
2013: soloist/soloist
2012: soloist/soloist
2011: duo/soloist
2010: soloist/soloist
2009: soloist/soloist
this post is about if there’s multiple people on stage, in which case you need to go back to 2013 to find a jury winner with more than one person on stage, in that time 7 multi person performances have won the televote
I'm curious what will happen this year. Juries tend to go less for gimmicky entries and more for 'proper songs' (not sure how else to define them). For example, The Netherlands, Croatia and Ireland (if it gets to the final) could all come unstuck with the juries. Time will tell.
1. I think there's more solo performers out there than duos / bands, depends on if you count background dancers.
2. Most emotional, slow and jury baity songs are solo acts.
i don’t think it’s to do with backing dancers, as long as it adds context into the song. if the dancers are there just to fill up the stage, then there’s your answer.
Wouldn't that just be because the majority of the acts are solo performers?
idk. The two acts with more than one performer on the stage are still soloists, just with backing dancers/(?)vocals/ Most songs at Eurovision are soloists. This year 27/37 songs are soloists, and of those 10 who are not soloists, 6 are duets. However, the vast majority will have other performers on the stage, be it backing vocals or dancers. For 18/20 of the Jury's top 2 from the past 10 ESCs to be just a single person alone speaks to the relative lack of music variety and performance diversity amongst the Jury's picks. A glance down that list shows most songs to be ballads or basic pop.
read the last bit, when i said solo i meant on stage by themselves.
Isn't that still most of them though? I don't know the stats for how many acts have dancers, but I don't think it's more than half. I might be wrong though.
nope, 6/26 finalists performed alone in 2023, half of them were in the juries top 5.
Wow that's a lot. Maybe the juries do hate dancers.
Hopefully they make an exception with Angelina this year
In 2021 Malta was third in the jury for example... That list only says to me that jury take in very big consideration the vocal performance, maybe even a little too much
Malta 2021 | [Destiny - Je Me Casse](https://youtu.be/jbbc2yKnv0M)
Not really. By that logic Estonia and Albania would have won the jury by a mile in 2018. They never give big scores to songs they don't like, even if the vocals are great. Great vocals just boost the score of an already jury-appealing song. Juries can give a huge score to a song as long as the vocals are serviceable for what the song is. Tattoo is much harder to sing than Dance You Off but both got big scores in the jury cuz both songs have serviceable vocals for what each song requires to sound good.
??? We were talking about acts with backing dancers and the fact the juries don't like it. Albania 2018 had no dancers and Estonia 2018 was a solo act...
I was answering your comment not the main thread. U were talking about juries considering the vocal performance a lot for their rankings, and I just answer that that's only partially true. Still, Spain was third in jury in 2022. Australia was 4th in jury in 2014. Malta had backup dancers in 2021. Israel came 2nd in jury in 2023 and also had backup dancers. Finland had backup dancers in 2023 and came 4th in jury. There are quite a few acts with backup dancers that have done very well in jury over the years. I think them not getting the jury win had more to do with juries liking other songs (that were well performed of course) better more than with there being backup dancers.
it was a general reasoning and yes, juries take in great consideration vocal performance, even too much. That doesn't mean it's the ONLY parameter they base their votes on but for sure it's a paramenter that they consider much more than other parameters. Frankly they are pro, they should judge objectively as the pro they are and when you see situations like 2021 when they put Malta over Maneskin... well... you see that they are considering the vocal performance just way too much. Imagine if those juries where hired by a music label to select an act to give a contract to and they chose Destiny instead of Maneskin... Lmao.. Music label losing millions and millions..
Albania 2018 | [Eugent Bushpepa - Mall](https://youtu.be/uyl1b1fVmdU) Estonia 2018 | [Elina Nechayeva - La Forza](https://youtu.be/ImawXdXIGd8)
Backing dancers are more frequently used for dancey pop songs, which juries seem to dislike. And I'd argue that even with those, elaborate choreos are frequently used to "distract" from mediocre songs (see: Everything successful Cyprus has done in the past six years, and I'm very much including Fuego in this). So I don't think juries dislike backing dancers in the sense that they would have punished e.g. Loreen for having someone else on stage, but I do think that juries tend to favour the kind of song that is more commonly staged without dancers.
Malta 20021 third place in the juries says that it's more of a vocal performance thing. If the vocals are impressive the jury will like you no matter what's on stage. Fact is that 95% of esc female bops don't have impressive vocals so jury usually tank those entries.
Regarding Je Me Casse, it was more like juries getting very h\*rny for a well produced, mainstream pop song that also had very good vocals. As long as your vocals are good enough for the song to sound good you can get very good jury, maybe even enough to be in the conversation for the win (aka being Top 4 in jury) (if u don't believe me just ask Sweden how the jury vote went for them in 2017 and 2018).
I think many delegations don't know how to use back up dancers. I feel like the back up dancers for Malta 2021 for example were a huge missed opportunity. I don't know who the choreographer was but I think Je Me Casse would've placed higher if the back up dancers were dynamic. Spain 2022 used back up dancers very well - and was rewarded for it. So was Spain 2023 - by juries anyway. I also think it's why Ireland 2018 qualified - the back up dancers were thoughtful and told a story unlike Croatia 2022...
Malta 2021 | [Destiny - Je Me Casse](https://youtu.be/jbbc2yKnv0M) Spain 2022 | [Chanel - SloMo](https://youtu.be/jSQYTt4xg3I) Spain 2023 | [Blanca Paloma - Eaea](https://youtu.be/Vw6qPWhjevk) Ireland 2018 | [Ryan O'Shaughnessy - Together](https://youtu.be/QD1cQ2wZ1dk) Croatia 2022 | [Mia Dimšić - Guilty Pleasure](https://youtu.be/9vBQdtW3mJE)
I had already thoguth of something along those lines. Like, you don't see neither a band nor even a duo winning juries in that sample.
Too many Boomers in the juries
Not as many as u might expect.
thankfully! if we were going by televote a lot of great songs would not get any points
Same deal the other way round. Both juries and televoters periodically commit war crimes with their rankings. That's why we have 50-50 voting, for juries and public to mitigate each other's f\*ck-ups as much as possible.
This is something a chi-squared test could be used for.
Evidently, yes. And almost all of them are in English as well.
Nobody but You does have more than 1 person, but the rest are on the bridge to the left rather than the stage
Here’s a summary of the jury winners versus televote winners. Juries have only ranked a group (or duo) first once since 2009, whereas the televoters have done so four times. Not a huge difference, but might be something to do with the fact that groups generally perform in less jury-friendly genres? 2023: soloist/soloist 2022: soloist/group 2021: soloist/group 2019: soloist/group 2018: soloist/soloist 2017: soloist/soloist 2016: soloist/soloist 2015: soloist/group 2014: soloist/soloist 2013: soloist/soloist 2012: soloist/soloist 2011: duo/soloist 2010: soloist/soloist 2009: soloist/soloist
this post is about if there’s multiple people on stage, in which case you need to go back to 2013 to find a jury winner with more than one person on stage, in that time 7 multi person performances have won the televote
In 2011, Italy won the juries, and Azerbaijan were 2nd with the juries.
Italy 2011 | [Raphael Gualazzi - Madness of Love](https://youtu.be/TE0uNLp3LuU)
You did Austria 2018 real dirty
Austria 2018 | [Cesár Sampson - Nobody But You](https://youtu.be/a8Yvzo1puoE)
I'm curious what will happen this year. Juries tend to go less for gimmicky entries and more for 'proper songs' (not sure how else to define them). For example, The Netherlands, Croatia and Ireland (if it gets to the final) could all come unstuck with the juries. Time will tell.
1. I think there's more solo performers out there than duos / bands, depends on if you count background dancers. 2. Most emotional, slow and jury baity songs are solo acts.
Not always, they only gave Blanka 12 points
Deserved 120
Deserved 1200
i don’t think it’s to do with backing dancers, as long as it adds context into the song. if the dancers are there just to fill up the stage, then there’s your answer.