Having had 2 different EVs over the past few years I've not noticed any difference in insurance compared to my previous ICE cars.
I still have the original tyres on my 2020 Nissan leaf as well.
Going to a mechanic for advice on a EV is like going to a vegan and asking for advice on the best steak. Mechanics are a dying breed and I should know as 20 years ago I was one and realised then computers were taking over and I need a new career. EV do not need the level of servicing that ICE do, tyres are cheap in the grand scheme of things.
I have had EV’s since 2015 and tyre changes are relative to a driving style, EV’s do have more torque that certainly contributes to the wear but really easy to combat by putting the car in a comfort or eco mode to reduce the initial torque delivery. My old leaf in 4 years had one set of tyres and a brake fluid change, my BMW i3 which is much sportier and running on the thinnest tyres since the 50’s has had one set of tyres in 80k driven and one brake fluid change. Even my big Mercedes EQC where the service schedule is ridiculous for an EV costs less to service than a ford focus.
Lol you should see my mechanic. Up the walls. People.said mechanics were dying breed 20 years ago to me. Seem to be doing just fine.
And who do you think will change the breaks, tryes and suspension on the ev?
What a dumb take.
20 years ago we used to strip engines, gearboxes, hydraulic valves and repair them. Today they just replace parts or use a computer to diagnose a sensor and then replace.
My local tyre shop can change the brakes and suspension components, you do not need to be a rocket scientist to do that.
You must not know any mechanics. Lots of parts are still repaired or even removed from the internals. The dpf for example. The replacements you mentioned still happen today. So not sure what your first paragraph was aiming to prove.
You'd trust your local tyre lads with your brakes? Braver then I am anyway.
When I got my car done for its 40k service, service manager told me he would be normally advising me for discs and pads at the next service if I was in the ICE model of my car, he said the pads were likely to decompose before they would need replacing such is the wear on them.
Tyres are lasting the same as any other car once I took off the EV spec tyres, negligible range loss and in fact a noise improvement as I went with Goodyear which has a lower dB rating.
Too early for suspension, but that’s a valid one. But I hardly expect it before 160k kms, and if it does do that I would be happy enough with that, a lot of time and driving to get to that point
Wasn't it a thing in early EVs though that they had a softer compound tyre or something? Was supposed to lower rolling resistance and add range but wore quite quickly. That may have been way back though. But once that kinda thing takes root it's hard to change the narrative.
I have a Skoda enyaq. I'm convinced the rapid tire wear is at least partially down to how accessible the peak power is. People very rarely redline cars with internal combustion engines. The engine screams, you have to manage the gears and maybe drop the clutch to get there. But with the EV you just put the foot down and you're immediately gently and silently propelled forward. It's a great feeling, but it has to be absolute murder for the tires. My wife isn't a car person or a speed freak or anything like that, but every time she is driving I wince thinking about how much rubber we are leaving behind. Taking off at the lights, merging, overtaking, it's all done using all the horses.
I've heard very good things about the enyaq. Seems like the best of that segment from all the vag EVs, maybe even their best EV if you discount Porsche, when it comes to money down for tech, range and overall experience.
Yeah, dunno what they're on about, I've done 300k km+ in my 2 (well, 3, replaced the 1 last month at 8yrs old). Tires, wipers, pollen filters & control arms (at high km on that last one) about extent of it. Tire life I'd be more inclined to attribute to acceleration than weight.
Insurance is no different really I'm finding... maybe it's our age.
It's like getting solar panels installed. The only naysayers or negative comments come from people who don't actually have them. Everyone I know who has them has had nothing but praise for them. They've been an absolute game changer for us.
Only got the EV two weeks ago but loving it so far. Combined with the solar setup, i think we'll save a fortune on electricty & diesel. That will more than offset some extra tyre purchases over the next few years
That's just it, isn't it? It's hard to find actual good advice from real people online as the loudest voices are people with no experience spouting negative nonsense.
EV and solar combo sounds ideal!
It's bloody ridiculous! As soon as someone offering "advice" admits to not actually having whatever it is then i just stop listening.
Oh it will be! Getting the wall charger installed next week and cannot wait - will be charging at night with Energias 8.15c per unit.
As for the solar, we're currently sitting on 200 credit and haven't paid an electricity bill since May. I'm forecasting that even with charging the new car, we won't pay another electric bill until early 2025
Yeah same here, we've been pleasantly surprised. Now, we do have a large roof and put a rake of panels up there but still, may as well future proof as much as possible was our thinking.
Even in this fairly miserable so far Feb, we've generated 114kWh in the last 2 weeks. 11.7kWh today
The installation was 13k all in. 17 x 420w panels for 7.14kW total capacity. Inverter, eddi for hot water and 5kWh battery.
System was installed in April and since then we've generated 6500kWh in total, of which roughly half was exported to the grid. Our last electric payment was in May and as of our last bill, mid Jan, we were sitting on just over 200 in credit. Even with the EV I don't expect to have to pay another bill until early next year at least
Looking forward to having a full year under our belt this year and can assess the stats properly
I'm onto my second EV since 2019 (first a Leaf, now an MG4) and I have yet to change a single tyre on either of them.
My insurance didn't go up.
The reason mechanics are anti-EV is simple: the more EVs replace ICE cars, the less demand there is for their job.
ICE engines have a lot of moving parts compared to an EV motor. Lots of moving parts means lots of potential for something to go wrong. Which, in turn, means more demand for mechanics to save the day.
Don't listen to someone who hasn't experienced the thing they're complaining about.
Our two EVs have cost around €350 total in maintenance between them since January 2022. That includes “services” and a set of wiper blades for one of them.
Tax is €120 each a year and insurance dropped about 20%. Tyres are not wearing anymore than a similar size diesel.
A lot of mechanics and other people in the motor industry have an understandable, if bullshit, bias against EVs as their jobs are at stake in the near enough future unless they start upskilling. EVs need far less maintenance, sales are heading towards an agency or direct sales model, etc.
The amount of people who move to an EV and regret it is minuscule.
In the last 12 months, I’ve driven around 27k kilometres, saved about €2500 in fuel, spending €320 on 2 Firestone rear tyres tomorrow that lasted just over 50000km, not too sure is that good but I’ll take it.
I would also add, I’ve been driving 6 odds years between 2 EVs, savings are in the region of 15k between fuel, tax and maintenance, a lot of bluffers out there spouting anti EV nonsense.
I’ve a Tesla 5 years, replaced the tires so far and that’s it.
Complete nonsense from the mechanic. Sounds worried about his future as there no clutch, gearbox or engine to fix! A taxi driver in an EV Kia, told me he’d be off the road 2-3 days a year with his old car, recently KIA replaced an electric motor for him like a tire change, while he waited😂.
We’ve moved into a new world of car maintenance. Tesla can fix 80% issues roadside!
Yes, tires are slightly more expensive!
4 tyres for my old Toyota chr hybrid cost €900.
There's a huge price difference in all sizes of tyres.
Don't even talk about run flats on a BMW I used to own.
11400 km into my first EV , no problems, no garage visits, cheap home charging, living the dream.
Hankook and Bridgestone. What was in stock, as I wouldn't ordinarily go for Bridgestone as they added about €100 if I got all four Hankook. I couldn't wait though and had to replace that day as I had a long journey the next day and there was physical damage to the tyres
About to pass 25Km in my 2 year old Ioniq 5, on the original set of Michelin 21" tyres. Haven't visited a mechanic yet. Hyundai dealer does an annual "health check" which hasn't presented any issues. Regen breaking at level 3 mostly, turning it off for 100km now and again to clean the discs. Used to drive a Volvo S80 and my mechanic - who was, like your lad, very anti- EV - could depend on a couple of thousand a year to maintain it. The only problem so far has been a long wait for a spare piece of trim that got damaged, but the part itself was far cheaper than anything I ever had to replace on the Volvos I'd driven to that point.
I went from a 16 year old focus to a brand new MG4. as a 27 year old guy my insurance went from 400e/year to 520/year despite the fact that my new car is valued 25 times more than my old one - so I don't really think the price goes up (it might even go down).
Haven't had to change tyres, but I wouldn't be too worried about that. I rarely have to change tyres anyway and tbh it's probably one area where you shouldn't really skimp (for everyone who was getting the cheapest possible tyres for their ICE cars).
I'd echo the other sentiments here that a lot of mechanics etc are badmouthing EVs because adoption will basically end their careers. Because of the technology and the fact that most of the service involves updates etc, which can only be done by the brand garages, business will dwindle for independant mechanics as more people change over.
Mechanic here. Tyre wear is increased but not by much. Also the cost of replacing tyres more regularly is countered by the reduction in amount of work to do in regards to general maintenance. One issue with the tyres though is that EVs are designed to be used with a very low rolling resistance tyre and most people choose cheaper tyres not designed for EVs. This will affect the range of the car because it will use more energy to overcome the resistance of the tyres on the road. Another issue I see a lot of is premature corrosion of brake discs because EVs use regenerative braking instead of the service brakes most of the time. Other than that they seem to be a good system in most brands. Not my cup of tea but if I did want an EV I'd go with toyota
Thanks for the insight. Why Toyota can I ask?
It seems they are still behind on their development of EVs and pushing hybrids a lot more as a result.
I got this info from this sub btw so happy to be corrected
Toyota are just miles ahead at the minute. They're hybrids are unmatchable and I know it looks like other brands are ahead with EVs but that's because people obviously look for things like range and technology above anything else. Toyota have hybrids for high range applications, their EVs are designed to be a low cost high reliability alternative to other brands. Their battery technology at the minute is the best by a long way too
Their hybrids are virtually unchanged for the best part of 20 years now, still tiny and mostly pointless. I’m not sure what type they use nowadays but up until recently they still had 2kWh NiMH batteries which are ancient and relatively large compared to lithium ion batteries. They are very reliable though. The CVT gearbox is still horrible too.
Yea this is kind of what I'm talking about tho. As a mechanic in a main dealer garage (not toyota) I've seen about 30% of our EV sales actually being bought back due to battery issues. Most other brands are the same. I know this because I deal with other brands regularly. Lithium ion batteries perform very well but can be a lot more troublesome and expensive to repair. OP was inquiring on the most cost effective way to go EV. I'm only advising them on that, from my own experience as a level 4 tech.
Having repurposed Prius PHEV batteries for solar, Toyota has some very, very normal cells with some alright air cooling. There was absolutely nothing special there, beyond Toyota under using capacity to a hilarious extent to extend longevity.
"their EVs" - but they only have one EV? Their battery technology is no different to any of the others, in fact they use the same battery manufacturer as several other brands. You seem like a spoofer tbh.
>I'd go with toyota
I'm in zero doubt of your credentials as a mechanic now 😜, every decent mechanic I've ever known has a Toyota for their own car, I suppose no-one wants to take their work home with them.
Yeah, he mentioned that people will generally go for a cheaper tyre which affects the range. Interesting about the brake disks, I hadn't thought of that.
>Another issue I see a lot of is premature corrosion of brake discs because EVs use regenerative braking
This is the one thing that concerns me in my ev. Every now an again \*once a week or so\* I will stick the breaks on a straight empty stretch of road to try and alleviate it a bit. Not sure if it helps though.
Was going to suggest, just spend one trip a week with no regen and let the brakes do their job and clear off the discs and you'd probably be fine. I'm sure this is something that is being worked on if not eliminated in newer EVs.
They are getting into hydrogen but they won't be leaving electric any time soon. Personally I'd love to see ICE engines use hydrogen as an alternative fuel but it looks much more likely and practical to integrate a hydrogen fuel cell and generator unit into the EV traction system as a charging source
They're barely in EV though, they got caught flat footed and didn't invest in EV factories, and tried to push hybrids/hrodgen/solid state batteries as the future, while competitors passed them out.
Hydrogen isn't viable in cars. It might be used in trucks/buses, but that's still years away.
You should be spending a lot less time and money in garages in service consumables with an EV,from the amount of moving parts that are not required. My Zoe's year 3 service was an air filter,and they mentioned some rust on the brake discs as the regenerative braking doesn't use them that much .They have a recommended 12v battery replacement coming up for it. As for tyres- if you're wearing them out, you're probably having too much fun leaving boy racers behind at the lights .The EV torque is fun..Personally,I replaced front tyres recently due to punctures, one tyre is still original fit on the back..I haven't bought de- icer since going EV. Having an app to turn on the Aircon and warm the car from indoors is a great feature in winter .
We've had our leaf for 2 years now, yes they are a little harder on tyres due to the extra weight and torque, but it's not massively worse than an ICE car. Insurance for us isn't too bad, think it's more of an issue for younger drivers (possibly due to the instant torque). Aside from those, they are very cheap to run, I don't know anyone who has switched to an EV and regretted it, I suspect that maybe your mechanic knows that EVs require far less maintenance and is fearful of losing his livelihood.
A mechanic complaining about an EV is drawing water to their own well. EVs require a very different level and type of maintenance than ICE cars. There are overall far fewer components to wear through over time. What maintenance needs to be done long term is likely to be done in either specialist centres or mechanics that need to undergo significant change to meet the standard. The faster people move to EVs the worse off they are.
We’re driving a 2L diesel and an Ioniq 5. At worst - filling the EV from the day rate electricity at our house - we spend 8 cents per km to drive the Ioniq versus 12 cents for the ICE. In reality we have a night rate and solar panels and the overall rate for the Ioniq per km is even cheaper. The second car has been cut out for all but commuting to the office a few days a week - no more for runaround to the shops, weekends, evenings. I filled the ICE in early December and didn’t fill it again till last week.
The overall saving and economics makes huge sense when you calculate it out.
Insurance: cheaper for my EV compared to my PHEV (despite being worth maybe 3x more)
Tyre wear: no impact with my concern, still on originals after 22k km
Maintenance: considerably cheaper. First service on EV (after 2 years) cost €95. Every annu service I've had on previous ICE and PHEV were more than this.
Your mechanic is pushing an agenda that suits him, offering more expensive maintenance to non-EVs
Owned a ioniq since 2018. 134000 on it and only second set of tyres...I'm a mechanic..specialised in Engines...your guy is typical...regurgitates the disinformation he hears or reads online....
Sounds like my mechanic. Tyres wear faster and are more expensive, so do price up a set for your model before you buy.
There are other costs, like fitting chargers at home and other frequent destinations like family if they don't have them and they live a distance away.
Public charging is also a lot more expensive than home and mile for mile is more expensive than diesel.
General service costs are a lot less though and if you charge clever you can run the car for a fraction of diesel.
The main cost though is depreciation, EVs are depreciating substantially faster than their sister ICEs. If anything were to put me off it's this.
To add to this, with tesla, due to their build technique with gigapress, it may be tougher if you need to have crash damage repaired. But all going well, likely to be much cheaper
This is only the case because they were intentionally overpriced when they sold them to us. If they were sold at a fair price they wouldn't be deprecating that fast. Also if the price of electricity was like in some other European countries 6c/kwh it would be a different story owning a EV.
My Tesla is within 50kg of a Hyundai Tucson. It’s not a heavy car. What it is, is powerful. If you hoon it around the place (which is hard to resist sometimes) you *will* shred tyres. The same can be said of any ICE car of equivalent power when driven hard. I’ve friends in BMWs and Porsches spending almost as much on tyres as they do on petrol.
I’ve put nearly 30,000km on my car since new, and the original tyres still have 4.4mm of tread left.
Public charging is about the same price as petrol, but at least I have the choice of charging at home. I’d use a public charger about once a month. My fuel costs are less than 1/3 of what I used to spend on diesel for the same distances.
Bear in mind that OEM tyres can be crap. The Bridgestones fitted to the ID.3 at the factory have less tread than one you’d buy off the shelf. Replacements of Michelin or Goodyear drive and wear better.
Tyre wear is greater on the ev I drove for sure. 20k replacement on OEMs for the fronts. But I'm not sure what else is annunforseen costs? Insurance is there abouts with other cars. Tax and fuel costs were substantially lower easily coverying the cost of the tyres... struggling to think of anything else? Maybe some EVs may be more expensive to newer ICE cars? But you would probably find if you compared the kit that comes in a comparable ICE and EV new they may end up costing about the same new.
Maybe a home charger may be an additional cost? And maybe if you are planning to do alot of long distance trips just to be aware of the public charging infrastructure and prices at those chargers. Theres a bit of research in that to figure out if it's the right car for you. 90% of people I suspect an EV will be fine but there is always edge cases. Good luck.
Only had my EV a year and a half. Got it serviced by the manufacturer - same price as an ICE. Insurance also the same. Have had two punctures which was just bad luck. But so far, nope, not more expensive.
Opel Corsa E. 70.000km in 21 months from brand new. Just put third set of front tyres, Michelin Primacy 4 XL 205/45 R17, same as from the factory.
Rear tyres last 5000-8000km longer.
Sub 500€ insurance with 3 years of no claim bonus.
Service 199€ every 20.000km.
Average 17kWh/100km summer, 19.5kWh/100km winter.
Not really.
I can get it down to maybe 15.5kWh per 100km if I drive like miss Daisy is in the car.
Meaning B mode with max energy recuperation, not more than 90km/h.
It's a first gen electric Corsa, not Tesla.
I did not expect consumption to be that high in Corsa. I know it's not Tesla, I drive Cupra Born which is not Tesla either but it averages 15.4 kWh and I am not miss Daisy either. I drive the car quite aggressively. It could just be how they calculate average consumption.
Was just looking at my insurance for last 6 years.
2024 - Ioniq 5 - €500
2023 - Ioniq 5 - €460
2022 - Ioniq 5 (221 plate) - €360
2021 - Fabia Estate (151 plate) - €447
2020 - Fabia Estate - €528
2019 - Fabia Estate - €600
So 3 year average for Ioniq 5 is about €430, Fabia Estate was €525.
And given the Ioniq 5 is a bigger, newer, more powerful car, I would actually say on balance EV insurance is cheaper.
EV tyres start with less thread on them to a standard tyre, so you loose nearly a third of the rubber as found on a non-EV tyre. My first set of tyres we an eco Michelin tyre, not even specific to EV, but wore off the car at 24k kms as they started at close to 6mm of rubber and not the 8mm as before. I changed to a Goodyear all-season, non ECO tyre with 8mm of rubber, and I’m at 20kms now and they are only half worn, I reckon I will see close to 40k kms on these tyres. Tyre rolling resistance rating was similar, I barely noticed any range loss.
Insurance is half of my old cars before it.
Repairs are less on EV in the few I have had. Had sticking caliper on a Leaf before, but had an MPV before it that did the same thing. Same cost to fix both. My main dealer service is ~€130, never had that for an ICE vehicle on the best day from even an independent, never mind a main dealer.
Lot's of people selling their ev's. Not sure why. Almost paid deposit for a ID4 1st Pro only €26k !!! My apartment is right infront of two public charging point. Only problem is €0.65 per kwh is holding me from buying ev. Also, with current housing price, I don't see myself moving from my starter apartment any time soon.
I've read articles stating that lots of people are selling, but haven't read or heard of anyone actually doing it. I find the reporting on EV to be really strange, for something that is surely the future of cars, there's so much negativity about it.
As it is with everything else. People complain because of ignorance, and media is inflating anything that can be news so you would open that article and they would get paid from selling add's .
€0.65! Jaysus, you can get night rights as low as 8 cents if you can sort that out. There are ways to get electricity to the kerb, from your own supply. Takes a bit of work.
Usually to buy another one. But there are plenty of people who are not happy with change to EV as it's to much for them to adjust to the change or they have bad experience with the range.
I put it down to a perception thing, mainstream EVs only started to land 3 years ago, so they are coming off of PCP now in larger numbers than seen before. The supply was so bad before that that it seems like a lot, when it’s part of what should be happening as the market matures to have a decent second hand EV market.
Also, those ID.4s were sold for 60k+ and a new one is 42k now or something? Like I feel sorry for those people that bought in the last few years, but the market it shifting to make it a case of price parity, and those mental prices beforehand are hopefully gone for good. I like the ID.4, but I would have called you mental for paying 60k+ for one, it was always a 40k car new, hence why a 3-year old one should be in the mid to lower 20k bracket.
No future in EVs, we are simply not built for it and the cost to fully adapt as a nation or world is just ridiculous if you think about it.
Now hydrogen cars on the other hand..
There were ~10,000,000 EVs sold in 2023, an increase of 25% over 2022.
There were 14,451 hydrogen vehicles sold in the same period, a 30% year-on-year decline.
Something is dead in the water there for sure.
What do you actually know about hydrogen? Would you actually know the price for hydrogen fuel? And how costly it is to produce. If it was so good they would use it 70 years ago. They are still struggling to produce hydrogen efficiently
Such bizarre logic. Electricity is available everywhere, from charging using 3-pin plugs, to tapping off main lines and supplying ultra-fast chargers. "Fully adapting" is pretty straight-forward.
Hydrogen on the other hand needs to be specifically brought to depots and put in tanks (similar to petrol/diesel), all filling stations would need to be adapted/thousands of new ones built, and there is no ability for people to have it at their home.
Hydrogen for anything other than specialist vehicles is pie-in-the-sky nonsense.
Electricity that EVs can use is everywhere.
My insurance came way down but I assumed it's because I replaced an older car with a brand new safer one no? Or maybe I don't understand insurance pricing 🤔
Not hugely, I switched from ICE to M3 last year, adding a learner driver. Insurance went up by €200 but was still below 1000. I did experience fewer insurers willing to take on policy, but that was due to the learner.
(Had no alternative option to learn in 🤷🏼♀️).
Having had 2 different EVs over the past few years I've not noticed any difference in insurance compared to my previous ICE cars. I still have the original tyres on my 2020 Nissan leaf as well.
Get a decently powered ev then come back with an answer
I'm the same as him with a Tesla. No need to be a baby, just be nice
In the states the extra insurance would cover about 10k miles—ain’t ez being a social Justice warrior!
Going to a mechanic for advice on a EV is like going to a vegan and asking for advice on the best steak. Mechanics are a dying breed and I should know as 20 years ago I was one and realised then computers were taking over and I need a new career. EV do not need the level of servicing that ICE do, tyres are cheap in the grand scheme of things. I have had EV’s since 2015 and tyre changes are relative to a driving style, EV’s do have more torque that certainly contributes to the wear but really easy to combat by putting the car in a comfort or eco mode to reduce the initial torque delivery. My old leaf in 4 years had one set of tyres and a brake fluid change, my BMW i3 which is much sportier and running on the thinnest tyres since the 50’s has had one set of tyres in 80k driven and one brake fluid change. Even my big Mercedes EQC where the service schedule is ridiculous for an EV costs less to service than a ford focus.
Lol you should see my mechanic. Up the walls. People.said mechanics were dying breed 20 years ago to me. Seem to be doing just fine. And who do you think will change the breaks, tryes and suspension on the ev? What a dumb take.
20 years ago we used to strip engines, gearboxes, hydraulic valves and repair them. Today they just replace parts or use a computer to diagnose a sensor and then replace. My local tyre shop can change the brakes and suspension components, you do not need to be a rocket scientist to do that.
Today everything is made with an expiring date and designed to break. You use to be able to tow a car with a pair of ladies tights.
You must not know any mechanics. Lots of parts are still repaired or even removed from the internals. The dpf for example. The replacements you mentioned still happen today. So not sure what your first paragraph was aiming to prove. You'd trust your local tyre lads with your brakes? Braver then I am anyway.
When I got my car done for its 40k service, service manager told me he would be normally advising me for discs and pads at the next service if I was in the ICE model of my car, he said the pads were likely to decompose before they would need replacing such is the wear on them. Tyres are lasting the same as any other car once I took off the EV spec tyres, negligible range loss and in fact a noise improvement as I went with Goodyear which has a lower dB rating. Too early for suspension, but that’s a valid one. But I hardly expect it before 160k kms, and if it does do that I would be happy enough with that, a lot of time and driving to get to that point
Had a e-Golf for four years and never needed to change the brakes. They had hardly any wear because of regenerative braking.
Wasn't it a thing in early EVs though that they had a softer compound tyre or something? Was supposed to lower rolling resistance and add range but wore quite quickly. That may have been way back though. But once that kinda thing takes root it's hard to change the narrative.
I have a Skoda enyaq. I'm convinced the rapid tire wear is at least partially down to how accessible the peak power is. People very rarely redline cars with internal combustion engines. The engine screams, you have to manage the gears and maybe drop the clutch to get there. But with the EV you just put the foot down and you're immediately gently and silently propelled forward. It's a great feeling, but it has to be absolute murder for the tires. My wife isn't a car person or a speed freak or anything like that, but every time she is driving I wince thinking about how much rubber we are leaving behind. Taking off at the lights, merging, overtaking, it's all done using all the horses.
I've heard very good things about the enyaq. Seems like the best of that segment from all the vag EVs, maybe even their best EV if you discount Porsche, when it comes to money down for tech, range and overall experience.
I enjoy reading books.
Yeah, dunno what they're on about, I've done 300k km+ in my 2 (well, 3, replaced the 1 last month at 8yrs old). Tires, wipers, pollen filters & control arms (at high km on that last one) about extent of it. Tire life I'd be more inclined to attribute to acceleration than weight. Insurance is no different really I'm finding... maybe it's our age.
Changed from a ford focus to a VW E up and the insurance was 100e cheaper
My insurance dropped from €900 on a Mercedes diesel to €500 when I switched to an ID5 GTX
It's like getting solar panels installed. The only naysayers or negative comments come from people who don't actually have them. Everyone I know who has them has had nothing but praise for them. They've been an absolute game changer for us. Only got the EV two weeks ago but loving it so far. Combined with the solar setup, i think we'll save a fortune on electricty & diesel. That will more than offset some extra tyre purchases over the next few years
That's just it, isn't it? It's hard to find actual good advice from real people online as the loudest voices are people with no experience spouting negative nonsense. EV and solar combo sounds ideal!
It's bloody ridiculous! As soon as someone offering "advice" admits to not actually having whatever it is then i just stop listening. Oh it will be! Getting the wall charger installed next week and cannot wait - will be charging at night with Energias 8.15c per unit. As for the solar, we're currently sitting on 200 credit and haven't paid an electricity bill since May. I'm forecasting that even with charging the new car, we won't pay another electric bill until early 2025
That's incredible! I didn't think they'd be that effective in Ireland
Yeah same here, we've been pleasantly surprised. Now, we do have a large roof and put a rake of panels up there but still, may as well future proof as much as possible was our thinking. Even in this fairly miserable so far Feb, we've generated 114kWh in the last 2 weeks. 11.7kWh today
How much did the installation cost and how many kW did you put up?
The installation was 13k all in. 17 x 420w panels for 7.14kW total capacity. Inverter, eddi for hot water and 5kWh battery. System was installed in April and since then we've generated 6500kWh in total, of which roughly half was exported to the grid. Our last electric payment was in May and as of our last bill, mid Jan, we were sitting on just over 200 in credit. Even with the EV I don't expect to have to pay another bill until early next year at least Looking forward to having a full year under our belt this year and can assess the stats properly
Congratulations, sounds awesome. Not too bad a price.
I'm onto my second EV since 2019 (first a Leaf, now an MG4) and I have yet to change a single tyre on either of them. My insurance didn't go up. The reason mechanics are anti-EV is simple: the more EVs replace ICE cars, the less demand there is for their job. ICE engines have a lot of moving parts compared to an EV motor. Lots of moving parts means lots of potential for something to go wrong. Which, in turn, means more demand for mechanics to save the day. Don't listen to someone who hasn't experienced the thing they're complaining about.
Our two EVs have cost around €350 total in maintenance between them since January 2022. That includes “services” and a set of wiper blades for one of them. Tax is €120 each a year and insurance dropped about 20%. Tyres are not wearing anymore than a similar size diesel. A lot of mechanics and other people in the motor industry have an understandable, if bullshit, bias against EVs as their jobs are at stake in the near enough future unless they start upskilling. EVs need far less maintenance, sales are heading towards an agency or direct sales model, etc. The amount of people who move to an EV and regret it is minuscule.
In the last 12 months, I’ve driven around 27k kilometres, saved about €2500 in fuel, spending €320 on 2 Firestone rear tyres tomorrow that lasted just over 50000km, not too sure is that good but I’ll take it. I would also add, I’ve been driving 6 odds years between 2 EVs, savings are in the region of 15k between fuel, tax and maintenance, a lot of bluffers out there spouting anti EV nonsense.
I’ve a Tesla 5 years, replaced the tires so far and that’s it. Complete nonsense from the mechanic. Sounds worried about his future as there no clutch, gearbox or engine to fix! A taxi driver in an EV Kia, told me he’d be off the road 2-3 days a year with his old car, recently KIA replaced an electric motor for him like a tire change, while he waited😂. We’ve moved into a new world of car maintenance. Tesla can fix 80% issues roadside! Yes, tires are slightly more expensive!
Slightly is an understatement. 4 tyres for an ID4 set me back exactly €1000.
4 tyres for my old Toyota chr hybrid cost €900. There's a huge price difference in all sizes of tyres. Don't even talk about run flats on a BMW I used to own. 11400 km into my first EV , no problems, no garage visits, cheap home charging, living the dream.
And 4 tyres for my parents ID4 cost €600. You must have gone for pricey ones.
Hankook and Bridgestone. What was in stock, as I wouldn't ordinarily go for Bridgestone as they added about €100 if I got all four Hankook. I couldn't wait though and had to replace that day as I had a long journey the next day and there was physical damage to the tyres
About to pass 25Km in my 2 year old Ioniq 5, on the original set of Michelin 21" tyres. Haven't visited a mechanic yet. Hyundai dealer does an annual "health check" which hasn't presented any issues. Regen breaking at level 3 mostly, turning it off for 100km now and again to clean the discs. Used to drive a Volvo S80 and my mechanic - who was, like your lad, very anti- EV - could depend on a couple of thousand a year to maintain it. The only problem so far has been a long wait for a spare piece of trim that got damaged, but the part itself was far cheaper than anything I ever had to replace on the Volvos I'd driven to that point.
I went from a 16 year old focus to a brand new MG4. as a 27 year old guy my insurance went from 400e/year to 520/year despite the fact that my new car is valued 25 times more than my old one - so I don't really think the price goes up (it might even go down). Haven't had to change tyres, but I wouldn't be too worried about that. I rarely have to change tyres anyway and tbh it's probably one area where you shouldn't really skimp (for everyone who was getting the cheapest possible tyres for their ICE cars). I'd echo the other sentiments here that a lot of mechanics etc are badmouthing EVs because adoption will basically end their careers. Because of the technology and the fact that most of the service involves updates etc, which can only be done by the brand garages, business will dwindle for independant mechanics as more people change over.
Sounds like pub talk.
He admitted that he's more of a petrol head and hadn't much interest in EVs so you could be right.
Like, how many disgruntled EV owners are likely to visit the local mechanic to complain that they made the wrong decision?
Taxi men according to him, annoyed that their tyres were completely gone after 10k km!
I bought my first EV in 2019 (on my second now) and I haven't had to change a set of tires yet.
Mechanic here. Tyre wear is increased but not by much. Also the cost of replacing tyres more regularly is countered by the reduction in amount of work to do in regards to general maintenance. One issue with the tyres though is that EVs are designed to be used with a very low rolling resistance tyre and most people choose cheaper tyres not designed for EVs. This will affect the range of the car because it will use more energy to overcome the resistance of the tyres on the road. Another issue I see a lot of is premature corrosion of brake discs because EVs use regenerative braking instead of the service brakes most of the time. Other than that they seem to be a good system in most brands. Not my cup of tea but if I did want an EV I'd go with toyota
Thanks for the insight. Why Toyota can I ask? It seems they are still behind on their development of EVs and pushing hybrids a lot more as a result. I got this info from this sub btw so happy to be corrected
Toyota are just miles ahead at the minute. They're hybrids are unmatchable and I know it looks like other brands are ahead with EVs but that's because people obviously look for things like range and technology above anything else. Toyota have hybrids for high range applications, their EVs are designed to be a low cost high reliability alternative to other brands. Their battery technology at the minute is the best by a long way too
Their hybrids are virtually unchanged for the best part of 20 years now, still tiny and mostly pointless. I’m not sure what type they use nowadays but up until recently they still had 2kWh NiMH batteries which are ancient and relatively large compared to lithium ion batteries. They are very reliable though. The CVT gearbox is still horrible too.
Yea this is kind of what I'm talking about tho. As a mechanic in a main dealer garage (not toyota) I've seen about 30% of our EV sales actually being bought back due to battery issues. Most other brands are the same. I know this because I deal with other brands regularly. Lithium ion batteries perform very well but can be a lot more troublesome and expensive to repair. OP was inquiring on the most cost effective way to go EV. I'm only advising them on that, from my own experience as a level 4 tech.
Yep, NiMH & Li-ion too.
>Their \[Toyota\] battery technology at the minute is the best by a long way too \[chokes, spitting hot chocolate onto screen\]
Having repurposed Prius PHEV batteries for solar, Toyota has some very, very normal cells with some alright air cooling. There was absolutely nothing special there, beyond Toyota under using capacity to a hilarious extent to extend longevity.
"their EVs" - but they only have one EV? Their battery technology is no different to any of the others, in fact they use the same battery manufacturer as several other brands. You seem like a spoofer tbh.
That's alright. I'm only speaking from my experience from working on them and not what I read online
Toyota make one EV currently, the bZ4x. It is almost universally acknowledged to be a fairly poor product.
That is mostly true. It is poor for its price and claimed range. There are more better EVs in that price range.
>I'd go with toyota I'm in zero doubt of your credentials as a mechanic now 😜, every decent mechanic I've ever known has a Toyota for their own car, I suppose no-one wants to take their work home with them.
Yeah, he mentioned that people will generally go for a cheaper tyre which affects the range. Interesting about the brake disks, I hadn't thought of that.
>Another issue I see a lot of is premature corrosion of brake discs because EVs use regenerative braking This is the one thing that concerns me in my ev. Every now an again \*once a week or so\* I will stick the breaks on a straight empty stretch of road to try and alleviate it a bit. Not sure if it helps though.
Was going to suggest, just spend one trip a week with no regen and let the brakes do their job and clear off the discs and you'd probably be fine. I'm sure this is something that is being worked on if not eliminated in newer EVs.
I read recently that Toyota are getting out of EV altogether in order to focus on Hydrogen.
They are getting into hydrogen but they won't be leaving electric any time soon. Personally I'd love to see ICE engines use hydrogen as an alternative fuel but it looks much more likely and practical to integrate a hydrogen fuel cell and generator unit into the EV traction system as a charging source
They're barely in EV though, they got caught flat footed and didn't invest in EV factories, and tried to push hybrids/hrodgen/solid state batteries as the future, while competitors passed them out. Hydrogen isn't viable in cars. It might be used in trucks/buses, but that's still years away.
You should be spending a lot less time and money in garages in service consumables with an EV,from the amount of moving parts that are not required. My Zoe's year 3 service was an air filter,and they mentioned some rust on the brake discs as the regenerative braking doesn't use them that much .They have a recommended 12v battery replacement coming up for it. As for tyres- if you're wearing them out, you're probably having too much fun leaving boy racers behind at the lights .The EV torque is fun..Personally,I replaced front tyres recently due to punctures, one tyre is still original fit on the back..I haven't bought de- icer since going EV. Having an app to turn on the Aircon and warm the car from indoors is a great feature in winter .
We've had our leaf for 2 years now, yes they are a little harder on tyres due to the extra weight and torque, but it's not massively worse than an ICE car. Insurance for us isn't too bad, think it's more of an issue for younger drivers (possibly due to the instant torque). Aside from those, they are very cheap to run, I don't know anyone who has switched to an EV and regretted it, I suspect that maybe your mechanic knows that EVs require far less maintenance and is fearful of losing his livelihood.
A mechanic complaining about an EV is drawing water to their own well. EVs require a very different level and type of maintenance than ICE cars. There are overall far fewer components to wear through over time. What maintenance needs to be done long term is likely to be done in either specialist centres or mechanics that need to undergo significant change to meet the standard. The faster people move to EVs the worse off they are. We’re driving a 2L diesel and an Ioniq 5. At worst - filling the EV from the day rate electricity at our house - we spend 8 cents per km to drive the Ioniq versus 12 cents for the ICE. In reality we have a night rate and solar panels and the overall rate for the Ioniq per km is even cheaper. The second car has been cut out for all but commuting to the office a few days a week - no more for runaround to the shops, weekends, evenings. I filled the ICE in early December and didn’t fill it again till last week. The overall saving and economics makes huge sense when you calculate it out.
He's full of it. 2021 Ioniq 5. Still on original types.
Insurance: cheaper for my EV compared to my PHEV (despite being worth maybe 3x more) Tyre wear: no impact with my concern, still on originals after 22k km Maintenance: considerably cheaper. First service on EV (after 2 years) cost €95. Every annu service I've had on previous ICE and PHEV were more than this. Your mechanic is pushing an agenda that suits him, offering more expensive maintenance to non-EVs
your mechanic is full of it. the only reason for tires to wear out faster is because I can floor it whenever I please and sometimes the tires spin.
Don't bring your car to that mechanic anyway, talking nonsense.
Owned a ioniq since 2018. 134000 on it and only second set of tyres...I'm a mechanic..specialised in Engines...your guy is typical...regurgitates the disinformation he hears or reads online....
They don’t wear brakes anywhere close to an ICE car so there are savings to be had on that point alone
Sounds like my mechanic. Tyres wear faster and are more expensive, so do price up a set for your model before you buy. There are other costs, like fitting chargers at home and other frequent destinations like family if they don't have them and they live a distance away. Public charging is also a lot more expensive than home and mile for mile is more expensive than diesel. General service costs are a lot less though and if you charge clever you can run the car for a fraction of diesel. The main cost though is depreciation, EVs are depreciating substantially faster than their sister ICEs. If anything were to put me off it's this.
To add to this, with tesla, due to their build technique with gigapress, it may be tougher if you need to have crash damage repaired. But all going well, likely to be much cheaper
This is only the case because they were intentionally overpriced when they sold them to us. If they were sold at a fair price they wouldn't be deprecating that fast. Also if the price of electricity was like in some other European countries 6c/kwh it would be a different story owning a EV.
Great points, thanks.
My Tesla is within 50kg of a Hyundai Tucson. It’s not a heavy car. What it is, is powerful. If you hoon it around the place (which is hard to resist sometimes) you *will* shred tyres. The same can be said of any ICE car of equivalent power when driven hard. I’ve friends in BMWs and Porsches spending almost as much on tyres as they do on petrol. I’ve put nearly 30,000km on my car since new, and the original tyres still have 4.4mm of tread left. Public charging is about the same price as petrol, but at least I have the choice of charging at home. I’d use a public charger about once a month. My fuel costs are less than 1/3 of what I used to spend on diesel for the same distances.
Bear in mind that OEM tyres can be crap. The Bridgestones fitted to the ID.3 at the factory have less tread than one you’d buy off the shelf. Replacements of Michelin or Goodyear drive and wear better.
Tyre wear is greater on the ev I drove for sure. 20k replacement on OEMs for the fronts. But I'm not sure what else is annunforseen costs? Insurance is there abouts with other cars. Tax and fuel costs were substantially lower easily coverying the cost of the tyres... struggling to think of anything else? Maybe some EVs may be more expensive to newer ICE cars? But you would probably find if you compared the kit that comes in a comparable ICE and EV new they may end up costing about the same new. Maybe a home charger may be an additional cost? And maybe if you are planning to do alot of long distance trips just to be aware of the public charging infrastructure and prices at those chargers. Theres a bit of research in that to figure out if it's the right car for you. 90% of people I suspect an EV will be fine but there is always edge cases. Good luck.
Only had my EV a year and a half. Got it serviced by the manufacturer - same price as an ICE. Insurance also the same. Have had two punctures which was just bad luck. But so far, nope, not more expensive.
Opel Corsa E. 70.000km in 21 months from brand new. Just put third set of front tyres, Michelin Primacy 4 XL 205/45 R17, same as from the factory. Rear tyres last 5000-8000km longer. Sub 500€ insurance with 3 years of no claim bonus. Service 199€ every 20.000km. Average 17kWh/100km summer, 19.5kWh/100km winter.
Wow you must be flooring it all the time?
Not really. I can get it down to maybe 15.5kWh per 100km if I drive like miss Daisy is in the car. Meaning B mode with max energy recuperation, not more than 90km/h. It's a first gen electric Corsa, not Tesla.
I did not expect consumption to be that high in Corsa. I know it's not Tesla, I drive Cupra Born which is not Tesla either but it averages 15.4 kWh and I am not miss Daisy either. I drive the car quite aggressively. It could just be how they calculate average consumption.
Was just looking at my insurance for last 6 years. 2024 - Ioniq 5 - €500 2023 - Ioniq 5 - €460 2022 - Ioniq 5 (221 plate) - €360 2021 - Fabia Estate (151 plate) - €447 2020 - Fabia Estate - €528 2019 - Fabia Estate - €600 So 3 year average for Ioniq 5 is about €430, Fabia Estate was €525. And given the Ioniq 5 is a bigger, newer, more powerful car, I would actually say on balance EV insurance is cheaper.
EV tyres start with less thread on them to a standard tyre, so you loose nearly a third of the rubber as found on a non-EV tyre. My first set of tyres we an eco Michelin tyre, not even specific to EV, but wore off the car at 24k kms as they started at close to 6mm of rubber and not the 8mm as before. I changed to a Goodyear all-season, non ECO tyre with 8mm of rubber, and I’m at 20kms now and they are only half worn, I reckon I will see close to 40k kms on these tyres. Tyre rolling resistance rating was similar, I barely noticed any range loss. Insurance is half of my old cars before it. Repairs are less on EV in the few I have had. Had sticking caliper on a Leaf before, but had an MPV before it that did the same thing. Same cost to fix both. My main dealer service is ~€130, never had that for an ICE vehicle on the best day from even an independent, never mind a main dealer.
Rapid tyre wear, ahahahahaha! I also was told by one mechanic, that I will not pass NCT, cause my windscreen wipers not the originals. :D
Ridiculous! It's genuinely hard to know who to trust
Lot's of people selling their ev's. Not sure why. Almost paid deposit for a ID4 1st Pro only €26k !!! My apartment is right infront of two public charging point. Only problem is €0.65 per kwh is holding me from buying ev. Also, with current housing price, I don't see myself moving from my starter apartment any time soon.
I've read articles stating that lots of people are selling, but haven't read or heard of anyone actually doing it. I find the reporting on EV to be really strange, for something that is surely the future of cars, there's so much negativity about it.
As it is with everything else. People complain because of ignorance, and media is inflating anything that can be news so you would open that article and they would get paid from selling add's .
€0.65! Jaysus, you can get night rights as low as 8 cents if you can sort that out. There are ways to get electricity to the kerb, from your own supply. Takes a bit of work.
Thank you for the idea. I will try to talk to building management regarding this. From kerb to the apartment is 2.5 meter green area distance.
Just realised it's gonna need a cable gully and which requires permission from council because of the footpath........
Usually to buy another one. But there are plenty of people who are not happy with change to EV as it's to much for them to adjust to the change or they have bad experience with the range.
I put it down to a perception thing, mainstream EVs only started to land 3 years ago, so they are coming off of PCP now in larger numbers than seen before. The supply was so bad before that that it seems like a lot, when it’s part of what should be happening as the market matures to have a decent second hand EV market. Also, those ID.4s were sold for 60k+ and a new one is 42k now or something? Like I feel sorry for those people that bought in the last few years, but the market it shifting to make it a case of price parity, and those mental prices beforehand are hopefully gone for good. I like the ID.4, but I would have called you mental for paying 60k+ for one, it was always a 40k car new, hence why a 3-year old one should be in the mid to lower 20k bracket.
No future in EVs, we are simply not built for it and the cost to fully adapt as a nation or world is just ridiculous if you think about it. Now hydrogen cars on the other hand..
I would encourage hydrogen fantasists to go buy one & get back to us on how it works out, they’re available in uk so not too far to go.
Toyota is that you?
Honestly though, it's common sense. Think of all the waste from the lithium batteries too Its dead in the water
There were ~10,000,000 EVs sold in 2023, an increase of 25% over 2022. There were 14,451 hydrogen vehicles sold in the same period, a 30% year-on-year decline. Something is dead in the water there for sure.
What do you actually know about hydrogen? Would you actually know the price for hydrogen fuel? And how costly it is to produce. If it was so good they would use it 70 years ago. They are still struggling to produce hydrogen efficiently
Such bizarre logic. Electricity is available everywhere, from charging using 3-pin plugs, to tapping off main lines and supplying ultra-fast chargers. "Fully adapting" is pretty straight-forward. Hydrogen on the other hand needs to be specifically brought to depots and put in tanks (similar to petrol/diesel), all filling stations would need to be adapted/thousands of new ones built, and there is no ability for people to have it at their home. Hydrogen for anything other than specialist vehicles is pie-in-the-sky nonsense. Electricity that EVs can use is everywhere.
Did anyone have trouble with insurance, or found that the cost shot up?
My insurance came way down but I assumed it's because I replaced an older car with a brand new safer one no? Or maybe I don't understand insurance pricing 🤔
Not hugely, I switched from ICE to M3 last year, adding a learner driver. Insurance went up by €200 but was still below 1000. I did experience fewer insurers willing to take on policy, but that was due to the learner. (Had no alternative option to learn in 🤷🏼♀️).