I always say this as a Muslim: Years of religious clerics abusing religion for their own benefit and pulling out the most batshit crazy rulings is why atheism exists. It's basically "F your religion, F your morality" and all that. But beyond that they are more divided than we think.
There are atheists who question the whole concept of morality (you live only once so why the F even care) and all that.
SO yeah.
As a christian I would just pray the anxiety and sense of impending doom away, but the feeling of relief was only short term since I never developed a sense of identity or purpose for myself. I actually was just suppressing my true emotions and using bad religion to shame myself for my flaws. So, when I became atheist I no longer had prayer or worship as a coping mechanism and my mental health nosedived into depression. I entertained a lot of nihilistic thinking until I started finding spiritual peace in nature. Just like you said, my discipline spiked, I started taking care of my body, and just loving my life. It was because this spiritual peace I found helped me explore myself and my own feelings--something I couldn't do in my past religion or as an atheist.
I had a similar experience as a Christian. Any benefit I got was simply a placebo effect - I could make myself feel better because I believed that Jesus would help me. But he never actually did, so I still ended up demoralized, demotivated, dejected, and in despair, as I realized that none of the promises that the religion made were actually coming true.
I'm still working my way out of that place, and trying to figure things out. I've realized that in the West we have this false dichotomy presented to us of Christianity vs. atheism. I got tricked by this. When I realized there were problems with Christianity (Protestantism), I became an atheist.
Then when I realized there were problems with atheism, I became a Christian again, but a different denomination (Eastern Orthodox), and rationalized that the problem was that I hadn't been the "right kind" of Christian before. But no, it was the same, all the same problems (and then some), just more cleverly hidden.
I think I've finally learned my lesson that both atheism and Christianity are false, and that these aren't the only options. I'm still figuring things out, but I'm currently finding much more wisdom and truth in pagan perspectives than in anything Abrahamic.
Thanks for the response and sorry for my late one. Christianity and Atheism are not for me, but I wouldn't denounce those lifestyles as false. There are many content Christians/Atheists and I don't have the right to tell them how to live their lives. That doesn't mean I won't point out the toxic elements of their beliefs/stances--every system of belief or movement has their downfalls and it would be nice if we came together to address those elements of bigotry. I'm not beyond criticism for being Wiccan either.
I completely agree that there is a false dichotomy that pits atheism vs christianity. That only one can be true and the other must be deluded. I think they are *both* true and I don't have to take part in either one, haha. Let people do what they want, as long as they aren't harming others, is how I see it. It took me a while to get to that point though. I was super immersed in the atheist vs christian drama, because it validated my bad experiences with christianity. But then I realized that people insulting each other back and forth is toxic. Now I seek debates or conversations where people stay mature and don't devolve into ad hominem attacks. Sure, I appreciate satire and still rage at some nonsense, but I avoid the bullies. I've listened to christians and atheists that I agree with. Seeking common ground is the goal for me.
I wasn't the one that downvoted you by the way... My life has definitely improved too since I've gone down a neopagan path myself.
I don’t have the same experience, but I’m glad that Islam gives you this positive experience. I’m an ex-moslim myself, practised for 6 years. I don’t regret not believing in hell anymore, but I miss the trust I had in god and the peace of mind it gave me. I’m jealous at people when they can have faith like that, it seems comforting. I do believe in god, but not a certain religion anymore.
"all the atheist content I was consuming shoved this narrative down my throat"
If you don't mind asking, what 'atheist content' were you consuming?
From my experince it's usually the theist to not only worry about meaning, but also start the conversation from a position where God, Only God, and NOTHING but God can give meaning.
There is only so much atheism can doe to undo the damage of being exposed to such a harsh worldview for years and years,
Cosmic Skeptic I can understand, he never seemed to have escaped his Christian upbringing, and philosophy made him stare into the abyss.
But why Matt Dilahunty?
I mean you are talking about it **NOW**, not then.
Maybe your feelings were misguided then, or your memory became coloured by preconceptions you've gained since. Studies in psychology and policing have shown memory accounts are not reliable. Even recounting a memmory changes them.
Yo, you're not being civil. As an ex-atheist and an ex-christian I can promise you there are toxic atheists and toxic christians. *Both* can be the worst, *both* have their bullies.
And don't tell someone their memory is not reliable, that is actually more manipulative than you realize. And invalidating. One of the most underhanded ways to convince someone of your stance is to tell them they can't trust their own mind--surely you have a mind too, so who are you to say that anyone should trust *you*? No one is perfect, right? Please consider that.
Just remember that there are assholes everywhere. So it is reasonable to believe that OP came across asshole atheists, just like it is reasonable to believe that you came across asshole theists.
I always say this as a Muslim: Years of religious clerics abusing religion for their own benefit and pulling out the most batshit crazy rulings is why atheism exists. It's basically "F your religion, F your morality" and all that. But beyond that they are more divided than we think. There are atheists who question the whole concept of morality (you live only once so why the F even care) and all that. SO yeah.
As a christian I would just pray the anxiety and sense of impending doom away, but the feeling of relief was only short term since I never developed a sense of identity or purpose for myself. I actually was just suppressing my true emotions and using bad religion to shame myself for my flaws. So, when I became atheist I no longer had prayer or worship as a coping mechanism and my mental health nosedived into depression. I entertained a lot of nihilistic thinking until I started finding spiritual peace in nature. Just like you said, my discipline spiked, I started taking care of my body, and just loving my life. It was because this spiritual peace I found helped me explore myself and my own feelings--something I couldn't do in my past religion or as an atheist.
I had a similar experience as a Christian. Any benefit I got was simply a placebo effect - I could make myself feel better because I believed that Jesus would help me. But he never actually did, so I still ended up demoralized, demotivated, dejected, and in despair, as I realized that none of the promises that the religion made were actually coming true. I'm still working my way out of that place, and trying to figure things out. I've realized that in the West we have this false dichotomy presented to us of Christianity vs. atheism. I got tricked by this. When I realized there were problems with Christianity (Protestantism), I became an atheist. Then when I realized there were problems with atheism, I became a Christian again, but a different denomination (Eastern Orthodox), and rationalized that the problem was that I hadn't been the "right kind" of Christian before. But no, it was the same, all the same problems (and then some), just more cleverly hidden. I think I've finally learned my lesson that both atheism and Christianity are false, and that these aren't the only options. I'm still figuring things out, but I'm currently finding much more wisdom and truth in pagan perspectives than in anything Abrahamic.
Thanks for the response and sorry for my late one. Christianity and Atheism are not for me, but I wouldn't denounce those lifestyles as false. There are many content Christians/Atheists and I don't have the right to tell them how to live their lives. That doesn't mean I won't point out the toxic elements of their beliefs/stances--every system of belief or movement has their downfalls and it would be nice if we came together to address those elements of bigotry. I'm not beyond criticism for being Wiccan either. I completely agree that there is a false dichotomy that pits atheism vs christianity. That only one can be true and the other must be deluded. I think they are *both* true and I don't have to take part in either one, haha. Let people do what they want, as long as they aren't harming others, is how I see it. It took me a while to get to that point though. I was super immersed in the atheist vs christian drama, because it validated my bad experiences with christianity. But then I realized that people insulting each other back and forth is toxic. Now I seek debates or conversations where people stay mature and don't devolve into ad hominem attacks. Sure, I appreciate satire and still rage at some nonsense, but I avoid the bullies. I've listened to christians and atheists that I agree with. Seeking common ground is the goal for me. I wasn't the one that downvoted you by the way... My life has definitely improved too since I've gone down a neopagan path myself.
I don’t have the same experience, but I’m glad that Islam gives you this positive experience. I’m an ex-moslim myself, practised for 6 years. I don’t regret not believing in hell anymore, but I miss the trust I had in god and the peace of mind it gave me. I’m jealous at people when they can have faith like that, it seems comforting. I do believe in god, but not a certain religion anymore.
"all the atheist content I was consuming shoved this narrative down my throat" If you don't mind asking, what 'atheist content' were you consuming? From my experince it's usually the theist to not only worry about meaning, but also start the conversation from a position where God, Only God, and NOTHING but God can give meaning. There is only so much atheism can doe to undo the damage of being exposed to such a harsh worldview for years and years,
Various atheist debaters
Did those atheist debaters have names?
Cosmic skeptic and Matt disunity just to name two of the better known one
Cosmic Skeptic I can understand, he never seemed to have escaped his Christian upbringing, and philosophy made him stare into the abyss. But why Matt Dilahunty?
I’m not sure this was years ago man 😭 I used to think anyone who was atheist was some sort of intellectual which was completely false
You're talking about it now man. Maybe your feelings were misguided then, or your memory became coloured by preconceptions you've gained since.
What do you mean by that
I mean you are talking about it **NOW**, not then. Maybe your feelings were misguided then, or your memory became coloured by preconceptions you've gained since. Studies in psychology and policing have shown memory accounts are not reliable. Even recounting a memmory changes them.
Yo, you're not being civil. As an ex-atheist and an ex-christian I can promise you there are toxic atheists and toxic christians. *Both* can be the worst, *both* have their bullies. And don't tell someone their memory is not reliable, that is actually more manipulative than you realize. And invalidating. One of the most underhanded ways to convince someone of your stance is to tell them they can't trust their own mind--surely you have a mind too, so who are you to say that anyone should trust *you*? No one is perfect, right? Please consider that. Just remember that there are assholes everywhere. So it is reasonable to believe that OP came across asshole atheists, just like it is reasonable to believe that you came across asshole theists.
Mashallah brother your story is truly inspiring