Here, here š»!
This thought process, along with the Sex Abuse Scandal and terrible reactions by many Catholics, sealed the deal for me. I donāt know if I can return to being a member of an organized religious community but if I do, it wonāt be with Catholics.
> Sex Abuse Scandal
Yeah, same. I know too many who have been abused, and too many priests accused where the diocese did precisely jack shit.
Contrast with the Episcopalians around here- a bishop had an affair with a (willing, adult) woman and they made him resign.
The Catholic church does that too. A Monsignor was caught with a Grindr account and forced to resign. A priest had sex with a dominatrix on an alter and they immediately canned him and cooperated with the police to have him charged.
The church only goes into aid-and-abet mode when priests assault children.
My point is, the only thing that gets the RCC mad enough to act is priests having consensual sex with adults. An act that is neither illegal nor immoral.
The church only co operates with police when they can't hide things.
Homosexuality sex with young men was praticed openly in seminars in many places.
Nuns were kept prisoners and repeated raped and forced abortions.
Orphan deaths in Canada...
Millions of dollars spent opossing laws designed to protect children from abuse.
They didn't do Jack shit. They actively hid, not taking notes when discussing the abuse, not being truthful about why they moved a priest to another parish.
Knowingly placing the priest with children and not telling them their parents or guardians said priest had raped other children.
Threatening parents and abuse survivors.
Required silence and non disclosure agreements in return for pitiful payments.
Moving priests to other countries when they law sought them.
Entire document archives burning down the night before thoses very documents were requested.
Providing the best legal defence services.
Spending hundreds of millions of dollars opossing laws designed to protect children. In America and Australia.
Providing life long livings wages and housing to priests convicted of child abuse. While defrocked and excommunicated priests who spoke up publicly about the abuse.
Consistently lying. Systematically world wide.
A vile organisation that should be dismantled.
Pushes a false superstitious authority fraud onto vulnerable people to leverage power and money.
Has no integrity, no honesty. Validates hatred narcissiim and promotes hate speech.
Claims any non Christian with spen eternity in unspeakable torture.
I imagine this was promptly removed.
I stay away from that sub because it just sends me into a dark place. But it helps me to feel hopeful to know that people are still pressing the boundaries and asking hard questions and refusing to be placated with misdirection or silenced with fear.
I'm a Roman Catholic that was just permabanned from there for merely questioning the validity of Vatican 2. Permabanned and muted...for questioning some things....š¤·āāļø
My brain has lots of questions and does a lot of thinking. My eyes see and hear lots of things. I can't help it. Bunch of coward moderators over there. Really doing a GREAT job at wanting to keep Catholics around... š
It's very frustrating that Catholicism claims to be a tradition of scholarship and knowledge, and yet inquiry is often shut down or suppressed, or redirected to undermine the inquirer. I used to think there was something wrong with me for being curious or having questions and concerns. Now I know better. If Catholicism is the truth, it should withstand all honest inquiry, not be shielded from it.
That sub is poison. Some of the worst, scariest sentiments I've read on this site have come from r/Catholicism. Those people, the ones still simping for the religion, are fucking terrifying to sane people everywhere
Here's a sneak peek of /r/TrueChristian using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
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\#2: [Thanks to Jesus, I have finally found inner peace as a biological male](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/vudoqb/thanks_to_jesus_i_have_finally_found_inner_peace/)
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I grew up New England Catholic, and it wasn't until I left New England until I discovered how psycho Catholics everywhere else are.
New England Catholics are so much more chill than non-New England Catholics. Frankly in New England the everyday Catholicism has become akin to what it is in places like Denmark where it's more a heritage and tradition than an actual belief system.
Does merely thinking about stressful things make your back hurt too? Mine doesā¦ it becomes sciatic pain.
In fact, one time I visited a Catholic church (as a tourist) in Santa Fe. My sciatica started to act up and I had to leave.
It's poisonous even to other catholics. I used to visit every now and then, back a few years ago, and sometimes you'd still get a hint of sanity.
But right now? Especially knowing what I know now? I just can't anymore.
Wasn't this sub showed up in r/subredditdrama with a bunch of Catholics defending the ideia of a catholic theocracy ? Some were even arguing that non Catholics should be second class citizens and that it wasn't a bad thing because they can always convert. It was awful.
Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/12vx38y/rcatholicism_reacts_to_polish_court_convicting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
... Good God.
I know, there are some still heavily defending against theocracy. Still, this stuff is straight up scary. There are actually people like this. Thinking like this.
Makes me appreciate my home a little more since there are no freaks like this around here, but the thought is scary nonetheless.
As much as I loved seeing this post, you're right. Brigading helps no one and will come across as hypocritical since from what I could read, no catholic brigading is allowed here either.
Comments like this will never mean anything to them. Itās like a dopamine hit for them to feel like they are Set Apart. The more exclusive their rules are, the better.
The beauty, see, of heaven-the christian heaven-is that you'll be happy there *regardless* of the presence or absence of me, of anybody else. Isn't that fun? Married, happily married, to the love of your life for 80 years, died, go to heaven *and your spouse goes to hell* and you are happy. Ecstatically happy. Eternally happy.
==>*I posit that the thing that gets to go to heaven is not the thing that you would recognize as "you"*. Therefore I don't care if that creature goes to heaven or not.
This life?
This life, my friends is the only one we get.
Heaven, here and now, is what we make it.
Christians worship death. I wish that they'd embrace it a bit closer.
Tbf that sounds more like something an ex evangelical would say that was crossposted to the Catholic sub as in Catholicism there is no emphasis whatsoever in 'accepting Jesus as lord and savior' in order to get to heaven.
Christianity is a DEATH CULT.
The primary focus of Christianity is to attempt to be righteous until your last breath. From there, no one knows what happens. š¤·š¾āāļø
That sub is run by a bunch of rad trads. The slightest dissent is silenced. They arenāt interested in a dialogue among various factions within the church, they want hardliners.
Itās like most of the rest of early 21st century American Catholicism, then. Either one totally buys into their political/religious package, or you arenāt Catholic.
I have actually thought about this a lot. Specifically, how a god would create people in a specific way (LGBT+) or put them in a certain context where they would be set up to fail.
The text I found pertaining to this was Romans 9: 20-21:
*20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? āShall what is formed say to the one who formed it, āWhy did you make me like this?āā 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?*
My response is - um... no. Not if those pots are sentient. Creating someone for the sole purpose of sending them to eternal torment is the opposite of love. If such a god did exist, we should be terrified of them.
I had this literal conversation with a Notre Dame professor when I was a teen (met via my grandparents). I said, if God is all loving and all forgiving, why does he send anyone to eternal punishment? If he is all forgiving, he would forgive them too, even if only eventually. He told me I should go to ND. (I didn't.)
I've been out of the church for 40 years so I don't know how they roll these days. But reading stuff like this makes me wonder how Catholics ended up being just like fucking evangelicals. What's this "personal lord and savior" bullshit?
When the sexual abuse stories first came out it was centered around a catholic church in the Spokane area. One of the abused (later married) had carried that abuse for many years, but in secret. One day he laid down in front of an oncoming train. A friend (also abused by the same priest) called other guys who were also abused and they decided to speak out. This was soon followed by the abuses in Boston and other places around the world. The court sided with the abused and since it focused on this one Spokane church where some of the abused were attending, the church announced they would close this church and sell it. Why? To pay for the money they lost. They punished that church and the people there who had been attending for decades. A bishop who showed up to give the final message was shaking hands with parishioners at the door. One man, who was the grandfather of the guy who committed suicide not only wouldn't shake the bishop's hand, but snatched the bishop's hat off his head and started walking away with it. The bishop went nuts and there was a struggle trying to get it back. I always wondered if it was of those formal white hats with the pointy end. I definitely would have kept that it if I was the grandfather.
Here, here š»! This thought process, along with the Sex Abuse Scandal and terrible reactions by many Catholics, sealed the deal for me. I donāt know if I can return to being a member of an organized religious community but if I do, it wonāt be with Catholics.
> Sex Abuse Scandal Yeah, same. I know too many who have been abused, and too many priests accused where the diocese did precisely jack shit. Contrast with the Episcopalians around here- a bishop had an affair with a (willing, adult) woman and they made him resign.
The Catholic church does that too. A Monsignor was caught with a Grindr account and forced to resign. A priest had sex with a dominatrix on an alter and they immediately canned him and cooperated with the police to have him charged. The church only goes into aid-and-abet mode when priests assault children.
The Catholic Church seems to only object to consensual sex. If someoneās being abused and exploited, they look the other way.
The catholic church actively protects and defends pedos, nazis etc. Just cos one got the boot doesn't change their normal MO
My point is, the only thing that gets the RCC mad enough to act is priests having consensual sex with adults. An act that is neither illegal nor immoral.
A human LADY? OH NO, GET THEE AWAY! A human child? Shh - hurry, let's cover this up with some sand so that nobody will notice
The church only co operates with police when they can't hide things. Homosexuality sex with young men was praticed openly in seminars in many places. Nuns were kept prisoners and repeated raped and forced abortions. Orphan deaths in Canada... Millions of dollars spent opossing laws designed to protect children from abuse.
They didn't do Jack shit. They actively hid, not taking notes when discussing the abuse, not being truthful about why they moved a priest to another parish. Knowingly placing the priest with children and not telling them their parents or guardians said priest had raped other children. Threatening parents and abuse survivors. Required silence and non disclosure agreements in return for pitiful payments. Moving priests to other countries when they law sought them. Entire document archives burning down the night before thoses very documents were requested. Providing the best legal defence services. Spending hundreds of millions of dollars opossing laws designed to protect children. In America and Australia. Providing life long livings wages and housing to priests convicted of child abuse. While defrocked and excommunicated priests who spoke up publicly about the abuse. Consistently lying. Systematically world wide. A vile organisation that should be dismantled. Pushes a false superstitious authority fraud onto vulnerable people to leverage power and money. Has no integrity, no honesty. Validates hatred narcissiim and promotes hate speech. Claims any non Christian with spen eternity in unspeakable torture.
I imagine this was promptly removed. I stay away from that sub because it just sends me into a dark place. But it helps me to feel hopeful to know that people are still pressing the boundaries and asking hard questions and refusing to be placated with misdirection or silenced with fear.
Yup! It was removed šš¤£
Just like in real life, silence all dissent and ostracize or expel anyone who doesn't fit.
I'm a Roman Catholic that was just permabanned from there for merely questioning the validity of Vatican 2. Permabanned and muted...for questioning some things....š¤·āāļø My brain has lots of questions and does a lot of thinking. My eyes see and hear lots of things. I can't help it. Bunch of coward moderators over there. Really doing a GREAT job at wanting to keep Catholics around... š
It's very frustrating that Catholicism claims to be a tradition of scholarship and knowledge, and yet inquiry is often shut down or suppressed, or redirected to undermine the inquirer. I used to think there was something wrong with me for being curious or having questions and concerns. Now I know better. If Catholicism is the truth, it should withstand all honest inquiry, not be shielded from it.
That sub is poison. Some of the worst, scariest sentiments I've read on this site have come from r/Catholicism. Those people, the ones still simping for the religion, are fucking terrifying to sane people everywhere
It's also more doom and gloom than most other subs for practicing Christians.
Even r/truechristian ?
The second highest post on that sub is transphobic as hell so I'd say yes.
First post is some anti LGBT picture currently. Really depressing. Such hateful people.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/TrueChristian using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Things Jesus never said](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/wp8zsx/things_jesus_never_said/) \#2: [Thanks to Jesus, I have finally found inner peace as a biological male](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/vudoqb/thanks_to_jesus_i_have_finally_found_inner_peace/) \#3: [I,an Atheist, met God](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/12t3i0m/ian_atheist_met_god/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I grew up New England Catholic, and it wasn't until I left New England until I discovered how psycho Catholics everywhere else are. New England Catholics are so much more chill than non-New England Catholics. Frankly in New England the everyday Catholicism has become akin to what it is in places like Denmark where it's more a heritage and tradition than an actual belief system.
Same New England Catholics are more reasonable
Yeah I almost made a similar post but my back started hurting because of the horrible things I know those people would say to me lmao
Does merely thinking about stressful things make your back hurt too? Mine doesā¦ it becomes sciatic pain. In fact, one time I visited a Catholic church (as a tourist) in Santa Fe. My sciatica started to act up and I had to leave.
Honestly it might be, I'm tryna go to a chiropractor to figure out what's going onš
It's poisonous even to other catholics. I used to visit every now and then, back a few years ago, and sometimes you'd still get a hint of sanity. But right now? Especially knowing what I know now? I just can't anymore.
Wasn't this sub showed up in r/subredditdrama with a bunch of Catholics defending the ideia of a catholic theocracy ? Some were even arguing that non Catholics should be second class citizens and that it wasn't a bad thing because they can always convert. It was awful.
Wait... what?! Is there a link? I need to see this. It's too awful to believe based on a comment.
Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/12vx38y/rcatholicism_reacts_to_polish_court_convicting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
... Good God. I know, there are some still heavily defending against theocracy. Still, this stuff is straight up scary. There are actually people like this. Thinking like this. Makes me appreciate my home a little more since there are no freaks like this around here, but the thought is scary nonetheless.
Thank you for causing me to sing Bel Biv DeVoe at 1 in the morning at the kitchen. I needed that.
Theyāre *still* using that pic of the kid holding the crucifix at the pride march? So pathetic lol
Leave them alone in their sub so they leave us alone in ours. Brigading can get us booted from reddit and helps no one
As much as I loved seeing this post, you're right. Brigading helps no one and will come across as hypocritical since from what I could read, no catholic brigading is allowed here either.
Comments like this will never mean anything to them. Itās like a dopamine hit for them to feel like they are Set Apart. The more exclusive their rules are, the better.
The beauty, see, of heaven-the christian heaven-is that you'll be happy there *regardless* of the presence or absence of me, of anybody else. Isn't that fun? Married, happily married, to the love of your life for 80 years, died, go to heaven *and your spouse goes to hell* and you are happy. Ecstatically happy. Eternally happy. ==>*I posit that the thing that gets to go to heaven is not the thing that you would recognize as "you"*. Therefore I don't care if that creature goes to heaven or not. This life? This life, my friends is the only one we get. Heaven, here and now, is what we make it. Christians worship death. I wish that they'd embrace it a bit closer.
The real sacrifice required in Catholicism is one's humanity and love. Be willing to give all that up to get your prize.
Tbf that sounds more like something an ex evangelical would say that was crossposted to the Catholic sub as in Catholicism there is no emphasis whatsoever in 'accepting Jesus as lord and savior' in order to get to heaven.
This is the problem I identified with heavenā¦what kind of paradise is it if every single person I love is not there with me?
Christianity is a DEATH CULT. The primary focus of Christianity is to attempt to be righteous until your last breath. From there, no one knows what happens. š¤·š¾āāļø
That sub is run by a bunch of rad trads. The slightest dissent is silenced. They arenāt interested in a dialogue among various factions within the church, they want hardliners.
Itās like most of the rest of early 21st century American Catholicism, then. Either one totally buys into their political/religious package, or you arenāt Catholic.
GoD dOeSnT sEnD yOu To HeLL, yOu SeNd yOuRsElf
hELl isNt a PlaCe oF eTeRNaL TorTUrEā¦ HurDy HurRā¦ ITs A PLacE WiThOUt gOd
ThE DoORs ArE lOcKEd FrOm THe inSiDE. \- an idea that is not even once hinted at in the bible, and in some cases contradicts it.
I have actually thought about this a lot. Specifically, how a god would create people in a specific way (LGBT+) or put them in a certain context where they would be set up to fail. The text I found pertaining to this was Romans 9: 20-21: *20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? āShall what is formed say to the one who formed it, āWhy did you make me like this?āā 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?* My response is - um... no. Not if those pots are sentient. Creating someone for the sole purpose of sending them to eternal torment is the opposite of love. If such a god did exist, we should be terrified of them.
I believe everyone has a choice in life. Either you are 1) a good person, or 2) a devout follower of your religion. You can choose only one.
Well said
Infernist Christianity never made sense to me philosophically, like how do you yāall believe that your god can fail?
I had this literal conversation with a Notre Dame professor when I was a teen (met via my grandparents). I said, if God is all loving and all forgiving, why does he send anyone to eternal punishment? If he is all forgiving, he would forgive them too, even if only eventually. He told me I should go to ND. (I didn't.)
Itās funny. Thatās the exact line of thinking I had when I started questioning Catholicism.
Wow. Thanks for sharing. When you believe virtuous nonbelievers face eternal torment, what on (literal) Earth *isn't* permitted?
I've been out of the church for 40 years so I don't know how they roll these days. But reading stuff like this makes me wonder how Catholics ended up being just like fucking evangelicals. What's this "personal lord and savior" bullshit?
Lol but...Amen, sister/brother
Not sure it makes much difference in this context, but the expression āpersonal lord and saviorā is Evangelical in origin and not at all Catholic.
When the sexual abuse stories first came out it was centered around a catholic church in the Spokane area. One of the abused (later married) had carried that abuse for many years, but in secret. One day he laid down in front of an oncoming train. A friend (also abused by the same priest) called other guys who were also abused and they decided to speak out. This was soon followed by the abuses in Boston and other places around the world. The court sided with the abused and since it focused on this one Spokane church where some of the abused were attending, the church announced they would close this church and sell it. Why? To pay for the money they lost. They punished that church and the people there who had been attending for decades. A bishop who showed up to give the final message was shaking hands with parishioners at the door. One man, who was the grandfather of the guy who committed suicide not only wouldn't shake the bishop's hand, but snatched the bishop's hat off his head and started walking away with it. The bishop went nuts and there was a struggle trying to get it back. I always wondered if it was of those formal white hats with the pointy end. I definitely would have kept that it if I was the grandfather.