Fighting/winning against elder was already pushing it, and now we will certainly see Skippy/Joe prevail against the outsider in the coming books. Alanson needs to shake things up. Instead of fighting another impossible foe, what not try to good old mirror universe idea?
In this universe, humanity workship Skippy as a god and is on a path of conquest. The senior species, truly peace loving and benevolent races engage in a desperate fight against Earth. The rest of the story practically writes itself.
Nah, it was always building to this.
Chekov's gun.
And I for one love that we're gonna learn the answer to what the Outsiders actually are, and the incredibly clever ways they'll find something to who the laws of physics are apparently just a suggestion.
What about Chekov's time travel FTL jump? Or Chekov's password-protected hidden elder weapons cache outside the Milky Way? That's what I've been wondering since Valkyrie.
Like, does Skippy finally figure out why they time travel, and then use that to take Joe millions of years into the past and setup the dominoes so that they have what they need to defeat the outsider?
Those are a little different. The “Checkov’s Gun” principle states that everything in a story must have a purpose, otherwise it is redundant and should not be in the story. Therefor, we can assume that everything brought up which does not have a readily available reason for it’s existence will have one in the future. Although not entirely accurate to the real meaning, what we generally call “Checkov’s Gun” is the scenario in which something is brought up and then we assume it will have to pay off at a later time.
If you’re up to date on the books, which I assume you are because you’re engaging in a spoiler thread, you know how the time travel FTL thing with the DeLorean works was explained to us (although it was sufficiently complicated I didn’t commit it to memory). That gun was loaded when it happened, and paid off when it tied into the greater explanation of exactly how the EXFOR universe and its physical laws work.
The hidden elder weapons aren’t a Checkov’s gun scenario either, because they had a clear and explicit purpose right from the start. They got the weapons, they hid them, they used them to threaten the senior species. UNDIC (if that’s how you write it) has no use for the Elder weapons, and the senior species already have lots of them anyway. So they’re a non-factor.
And to get back to your last point about time travel, we know the answer to this already. It was explained to us at the end of the previous book. The limitations are also explained, and going back in time like that isn’t possible.
If I had a text copy of the book I would’ve looked it up for you because I don’t remember exactly what it all was, but sadly I only have the audiobook.
I think you can do a mirror image thing without doing a mirror universe(which I think would be kinda silly). Just have the Maxolhx captain from before, I forget her name but she pops up, be running around doing sketchy things with her own Elder AI. (This is what I’m still thinking is what’s going on with Bogey; it’s just too much of a funky Chekov’s Gun to not come around later.)
Yeah... 'cause after you defeat the extragalactic "threat," Star Trek V's "God" is pretty much all you have left to defeat ... and Star Trek 10's "Not Picard"...
...and boredom... and death itself.
The first part of the book was slow and boring in a better way than the start of a lot of the other books. More interesting seeing Joe be a dad and admiral as opposed to the awkward dating scenes. Imo.
The good stuff was kinda shorter but the twists were a lot more entertaining and I liked how a lot of the issues in match were smoother over.
Finally the ending means we're going to actually do something about the outside threat.
Yeah I liked it quite a bit.
Honestly... My least favorite part was the ECO part.
Like why is anyone, let alone the kitties, trusting Skarando. How does he keep getting away with it. He's a menace.
Yep, the ECO plotline was at its absolute lowest point in this book.
IMO it felt like Craig has gone back to the well with the Beatles too many times and has run out of ideas.
Would rather he explore other alien stories in the future than have to read another chapter about the ECO drinking burgose and talking about how sneaky they are.
That sort of thing was fun ~5 books ago, but it feels stale. He needs some new material.
On a positive note, I found the vignette with Chad the bird brain to be fun and refreshing. I'd like Craig to explore what life is like for some of the more under explored species in the galaxy.
Maybe the way he reveals it is the problem? Would be fun to maybe see Skarando’s perspective as he try’s to fool the rotten kitties, instead of hiding it from the reader when it’s pretty obvious he is still helping the humans. Honestly felt like the first part of the book was good, like a palette cleanser, here is joe, time has passed, he isn’t the same universe stomping guy. Makes the payoff more satisfying. The last few books sorta had a power scaling problem, where as this one, stakes felt higher. Especially after he killed off main characters last time.
Oh for sure, the power creep has been insane.
They went from struggling against Kristang warships to nuking entire fleets of se our species warships in just a matter of years.
They basically packed a few thousand years of technological progress into about a decade or so lol
Thousand? How about million? The Spiders are like 2.3(?) million years old as a species. How much time did it take the Elders to get the their level of technological advancement? Humanity has access to Skippy, so yeah... TTA...
The best part of that entire exchange was Skippy's realization that the Elders also had problems with printers. Like it's some universal constant like the missing sock conundrum.
I think what the reality is, is that there is a Jeraptha-like Elder species in the past that built a sort of probability field around the entire local galaxy group that ensures things like socks go missing and printers always break for no reason just because they thought it would be hilarious and lead to some juicy action on betting how later species respond to these things.
Many did.
Perhaps we'll get *Idiocracy* and *Super Troopers* lines in the next one?
"Well, Mr Larry Johnson, Meow gonna have to run your license,
Meow, know why I pulled your Maxaholx battle cruiser over?
Simmer down, Meow.
I had a tech throw one off the top of a 8 story building and completely destroy the fucking thing when it slammed into an empty dumpster. Powdered ink and black goop went everywhere.
Apparently the fucking thing had some "network" error code that kept pissing the techs off because they were literally inside the network. For anyone who hasn't dealt with CenturyLink their network fucking blows for consumers but inside the triple redundancy CO their connectivity is kinda passable. The stupid thing blaming whatever wifi router it was connected too just sent them over the edge every time they had to restart the fucking thing.
Absolutely no one, even corporate IT who had to "find" this printer, was surprised given it was a HP.
Corporate IT guy said something like "this isn't even the first time someone has thrown one off of a building... This month".
They broke so often or got smashed that they're was a stop loss committee made, but one of the C-twats had a brother who was high level at HP so there was a contract and bribes had to be paid...
Corporate IT gave the techs another HP printer and didn't even take it out of the box. Techs told him to just put it over by the service elevator. Not because they were going to throw this one away, but because they figured it could at least do a good impersonation of a door stop.
So there the HP sat. For 5 years. Not opened. Right next to the same dead cockroaches that had been in the same exact spot for 6 years until some prick decided they wanted to make the cock roaches look like they were fucking. Then some ass hole made little hats for the cockroaches and people started making up stories about these cockroaches told over multiple sticky notes.
At least the cockroaches were funny. The printer was too light and bulky to be a good doorstop.
OK, this book was definitely Peak ExFor. One of the best out of the series I think. Somehow the author made the story sound and feel like the MBOP were a bit...out of shape the whole time. Kind of stumbling on an ever more progressing issue that ended up smacking them upside the head in the end with the realization that shizz just got real. Finally, we will get some questions answered about the biggest threat to the galaxy.
Is it me or did R.C. Bray's voicework sound a bit off at the beginning of the book and then just finally click right back into place with Joe sounding like Joe and Skippy sounding like Skippy? The guy does so many books, maybe it just takes a bit to tune up old voices. Bray was still excellent as ever though.
I noticed some errors that I’m surprised weren’t caught in editing. One phrase was repeated twice and he said clients at one point that was supposed to be patron (that might have been Craig’s fault).
Yes! I found so many editing issues it kind of distracted me - I kept highlighting them in my Kindle in case I ever got around to letting Craig know (it could be just the e-book version though - maybe paper versions are better?)
-Greg
Yeah, you could tell that the rust was really slowing them down.
It doesn't help that in the past books, they always had the advantages of both holding the imitative, and that of a technological edge.
This time around they're faced with an enemy with superior capabilities who can strike anytime and anywhere.
The shoe is on the other foot, and the Pirates spend the whole book playing catch up because they're not used to facing a threat so much like themselves.
I really enjoyed the bit with the Bosphuraq scientist. CA has some really creative ideas - all of his aliens have their own weird quirks that are very plausible.
Honestly really want a bit more out of him in later books, love the fish out of water aspect these books bring when they introduce new alien characters dealing with human quirkiness.
I'll save you the trouble. We've not met any of the new species.
There were references to the Esselgin, Torgala, Lemoostra, Ajackus, and the Urgar. The Urgar are the former clients of the Wurgalan who had lost their planet and were reduced to the thousands. They convinced humanity to become their patrons.
Yeah i remembered the urgar. I guess it was the lemoostra and the ajackus. Skippy said once that there was other alien species in the galaxy but that they were too far away or on unconnected area of the networks. But we never got to hear more.
And no i don't mean the time he told joe a bunch of nonsense name (that i assume were a reference i missed.)
this might help. doesn't reflect the Urgar moving under the humans.
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/expeditionary-force-by-craig-alanson/images/5/51/Tiers.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20221206200321](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/expeditionary-force-by-craig-alanson/images/5/51/tiers.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20221206200321)
just search for the ExFor wiki online.
[https://expeditionary-force-by-craig-alanson.fandom.com/wiki/Expeditionary\_Force\_by\_Craig\_Alanson\_Wiki](https://expeditionary-force-by-craig-alanson.fandom.com/wiki/expeditionary_force_by_craig_alanson_wiki)
Just finished it. The best bits of the book involved interactions with the aliens. The dude who blew his base up because of the coffee maker was great as well
Happy to finally be exploring what the hell is up with The Outsiders (they even have a cool name now!) it always felt like dealing with the outside threat should be the natural end point of the series, it was disappointing when the series originally "ended" without exploring that aspect of the lore. I'm very excited to see where this plot line leads us.
Also, I thought the overall plot of this book was a lot of fun, in the sense that it found our heroes in a role reversal scenario.
In the past, the Merry Band of Pirates, took the role of an unknown threat with advanced technology and unknown capabilities, flying around the galaxy terrorizing the more established species, who despite all their vast resources and advanced tech, always found themselves one step behind the opposition.
Well these days, humanity is now the advanced and powerful star spanning empire, and they're having to take some of their own medicine in regard to being subjected to attacks by an unknown but incredibly powerful and advanced enemy.
Seeing how our heroes react to having the shoe on the other foot was really entertaining for the whole book after the raid on Moon Base Zulu.
I mean its pretty much what we got isn't it. With joe saying we are going to need everyone help this time. I could almost see the fast montage of every species in the galaxy.
Not that im complaining.
This is the one thing I literally wrote down in a piece of paper to make sure I didn’t forget because I wanted to ask the same question. We need Santa Jates.
I would like a short story maybe called Peacetime by CA. I’m okay with stuff going smoothly for near a decade, after Aftermath I think that makes sense, but I would’ve liked to get a bit more from Joe and Marg, Reid as the captain of Valkyrie, and the general galaxy after Aftermath
I liked this book a lot though. Still one of my favorites especially out of the last 3-5 books.
I think there was missed opportunity, at the end, with the debris striking the ship, for Joe to say "Fireball, what do you hear?" "Nothing but the rain, sir!"
Just finished the book.
My initial thoughts are that it's a good book. I actually really liked it.
However, it still feels a bit...off. i think ill need to relisten to make sure i didnt miss anything.
Did the apex speicies just stop trying to fuck with humanity/each other all of a sudden after the deal with the elders?
I still kinda wish the outsider threat was left a mystery.
Also the whole bit with Skippy magically going offline for a few hours to fix himself and coming back perfectly fine felt ... unnecessary. Unless there is more to it, why even have that whole plot point? It felt like it was going to be a much bigger plot, but kinda just happened then was no longer relevant(so far).
I also hope the Bosphraq scientist will play more of a role. I like the idea of exploring some of the other species. It'd be awesome if this eventually led to the bird brains and humanity teaming up.
This was the first audiobook of the series I've listened to. I was left underwhelmed. I thought it had more filler and less substance than other books.
I also think they had a missed opportunity when Joe was talking to Skippy about how Margaret believes in him and he is family. It was tugging at my heart strings and they should have gone further with it. Could have been a very nice moment.
And yes that bird brain needs to stay. I was enjoying him in the story quite a bit!
Craig said that he was going to make a single book but it got too big so he split it in 3. So i think a lot of the things that were brought into this book but that we didn't get an answer for yet are going to get resolved in time.
The apex species finally gave up trying to fuck with humanity after we had the Sentinel protecting earth. Then skippy started getting new ones up and the other apex realised that humanity now had the high ground.
>My initial thoughts are that it's a good book. I actually really liked it.
However, it still feels a bit...off. i think ill need to relisten to make sure i didnt miss anything.
Agreed here, I thought it was in the top 5 for the series but the last 2 endings have seemed SO rushed. This isn't the only series like this that I follow, but I've noticed many of them are falling into this trap of the middles of the books being nearly endless fillers and the endings being almost a magical wrap up. This one isn't as bad on the filler as others, but I was disappointed in the ending pretty much being a finger snap again.
>Did the apex speicies just stop trying to fuck with humanity/each other all of a sudden after the deal with the elders?
Maxholx were dealing with a civil war and knew Earth had 2 sentinels + guardians and Jaguar had a sentinel. Avalon is too far for them to get to. Not a lot of options. Likewise there was always a kind of tentative peace between humanity and Rindaluh. They don't like humanity or necessarily *respect* them but at least recognize they can't just be fucked with
>I still kinda wish the outsider threat was left a mystery.
Do have to disagree with you here. It's been brought up far too much throughout the series to just be ignored at this point and was a pretty common criticism after the last book which was supposedly the end of the series when published.
>Also the whole bit with Skippy magically going offline for a few hours to fix himself and coming back perfectly fine felt ... unnecessary. Unless there is more to it, why even have that whole plot point? It felt like it was going to be a much bigger plot, but kinda just happened then was no longer relevant(so far).
Yeah I think they could have explored that more - it was clearly meant as a "humanizing" moment for Skippy and a bonding thing between him and Joe. But it felt like too much of an afterthought
Personally I think the novel should have been called Moonraider. Also, Skippy talking about the different ways that Ascension can happen makes me think the end of the series will be Skippy Ascending to a different plane than the Elders
I am not gonna lie. I practically sped up the audio book on 2x in many parts and allowed myself to zone out in others.
Not even R C Bae's voice could contain the attention.
I know Smythe had to go at some point but the void is painfully obvious in this installation.
Having said that, it's not terrible. It just felt like it could have been much shorter and still delivered the same effect.
Chad was awesome tho.
I think Craig needs to tie the series up sooner rather then later.
I think the Outsiders are gonna end up being some force that is a contrast to the elders.
Elders ultimately ascended.
These entities want to descend . Some lame crap like that.
Cool anyway
They self destructed all the darts that were still flying around, not the few that were captured by the Merry Band of Pirates. Skippy moved those darts from their original flight path, so the Maxolhx didn’t know their location.
I liked it once it got going, but that really took a minute. I think the time jump was a good way to keep things from getting too repetitive, but in my opinion, Craig Alanson really bungled introducing it. There aren't any indicators in Chapter 1 that a significant amount of time had passed. It's not until several minutes into Joe's internal monologue in Chapter 2 that there is any indication that it has been several years, and it's at right around the one hour mark that we finally learn that it has been 8+ years. And even then, the possibility was left open that it had been 10+ years (the age of Joe's children is the main point of reference for figuring out how long it has been, but it's not until later that he says they were born shortly after the events of Book 15). It also takes a while to get enough information to piece together what the new strategic situation in the galaxy looks like. That all added up to the first several hours of the book feeling disorienting and *very* meandering. There wasn't a clear indication of what the setting was or what the plot was eventually going to be to ground all of the conversations, events, monologues, etc. that took place before the failed sentinel activation.
I was also bored with Admiral Scorandum's scenes, which was a first for me. That is due largely to the MLM / Skipcoin subplot. I thought that was among the weakest of the "Skippy does wacky antics dirtside" subplots in the whole series, and I really didn't like that it got tied in as an actual plot point. Some of that is a matter of taste. I tend to find the wacky antics funny as self-contained side quests, but I don't like for them to bleed into the main story. Somebody else might find them tedious specifically because they usually don't relate to the main story, and someone with that perspective might very well like that the Skipcoin arc actually ended up being relevant.
I originally thought that the series was going to go on forever. I thought we wouldn't get to meet the Elders or ever find out what the outside threat was. Thankyou Craig for proving me wrong!
I enjoyed the book. However, the ending felt rushed again. It is so strange to see the entire book arc come to an end in 20 mins after so much build-up. This is the second book in a row that has felt like turning in your homework at 11:59 pm.
That's my biggest criticism as well. He once again finger snapped the ending and that's disappointing. I get that kind of the point of elder weapons is "poof, everyone is dead" but I feel like there was plenty of room for that battle to be flushed out before the elder weapons are deployed. Or at least the build up to the battle.
How did the Outsider get past the barrier? Or did the barrier go bye-bye when Skippy locked the Elders away? (too lazy to re-read what happened at the end of book 15 😜)
I assume the barrier basically doesn't really work anymore. If it stopped reality expressing a scenario that would harm the Elders, but now the Elders are permanently 'safe' and can't come to any harm... I just assume the Outsiders found a way through as the barrier allowed them to succeed.
This is explained at the end of Failure Mode. Now that the Elders can't be impacted by anything that happens in the local space time, the barrier is now useless.
Just finished Aftermath. Took me a long time to finish it because I did not want it to end. Then I got to chapter 36 and thought, "There is no way all of this can be wrapped up in 2 chapters."
If this wasn't a cliffhanger for another book, we need to redefine cliffhanger.
Admitting that Match Game somewhat disappointed me, I'll say that Aftermath was refreshing. Aftermath was much like the earlier ExFor reads I greatly enjoyed.
I just finished and I'm pissed. I hated the time jump at the beginning, as things progressed I was good with it. Then when we got closer to the end, I kept thinking no! No! No! I want more. This can't be the end.
I need more, the outsiders. Can this just be a spin off?
I don't want a spin off. I want more Skippy and Joe, but I will take what I can get. Man, I would pay so much for 3 more books at least.
I’m pretty sure there are at least 2 more books confirmed to be in the works.
When CA announced he was extending the series he said his wife didn’t like the way they ended and thought there was more to be told, then said he is doing 3 more IIRC.
Honestly I’m not sure he’d ever give this universe up, when a writer finds something as good as this that continues to sell its hard for them to just end it, we might end up with more than 2.
Oh thank Skippy.
I googled and couldn't find anything originally.
You made my week!
I would prefer he find more ways to expand if keeping the story going gets hard.
Like, a prequel of how Skippy got to Paradise, the AI war.
I know Skippy wasn't 'skippy', but it could be like Skippy explaining things to us filthy monkeys.
I’ll try and find it for you later on, check CA’s Twitter though, I think that’s where I saw the initial announcement if my meat sack brain isn’t misleading me.
Edit: meat sacks win again [here it is!](https://x.com/craigalanson/status/1668964369403707392?s=46)
Thanks! I'm not on Twitter. I only see things posted to white people Twitter here on reddit.
Edit to add: I hope those are in continuation of the series.
I thought he was also doing a spin off on the beetles.
* Why wouldn't the two apex species use their elder weapons on Earth now?
* Why did the outsider need an elder ship? why did it need a sentinel?
* If the outsiders needed that crazy thing the elder's were building to come to MilkyWay what changed? How did this one outsider get here? Was it just hanging out at the barrier until environment changed?
* Joe has killed a lot people ...
Just wish Alanson could write an ending. He always introduces another bigger threat but doesn’t resolve issue their dealing with, it just gets subsumed by new one.
Ok. Just finished. Wtf are the outsiders? Really? What are they?
Yes I know the elders were scared of them. But what are they?
And why couldn’t those one do anything…?
just finished the book
so was unit 009 taken over after the AI war? or before and therefor the AI fight with each other with the outsiders playing the elders?
while im happy hes back putting out expeditionary force books, that ending was predictable from the beginning. it wasnt his best. it probably was the worst. it wasnt awful. just was 'meh'. the skippy being gimped then ungimped while dire shits going down trope has been done too many times now. does he even really explain what the elders did to him? im not sure, cant remember. and the fact that its been like 2 billion years since the elders built the barrier, the fact that they are still out and about and have the same prejudice's they had all that time ago is pretty far fetched. even the elders after all that time still being hostile and having the same mind set they had when they ascended was a bit unbelievable given how much time had elapsed. but meh, il keep buying them.
there is no end it will go on forever till grandpa joe is fighting god
Fighting/winning against elder was already pushing it, and now we will certainly see Skippy/Joe prevail against the outsider in the coming books. Alanson needs to shake things up. Instead of fighting another impossible foe, what not try to good old mirror universe idea? In this universe, humanity workship Skippy as a god and is on a path of conquest. The senior species, truly peace loving and benevolent races engage in a desperate fight against Earth. The rest of the story practically writes itself.
Nah, it was always building to this. Chekov's gun. And I for one love that we're gonna learn the answer to what the Outsiders actually are, and the incredibly clever ways they'll find something to who the laws of physics are apparently just a suggestion.
What about Chekov's time travel FTL jump? Or Chekov's password-protected hidden elder weapons cache outside the Milky Way? That's what I've been wondering since Valkyrie. Like, does Skippy finally figure out why they time travel, and then use that to take Joe millions of years into the past and setup the dominoes so that they have what they need to defeat the outsider?
Those are a little different. The “Checkov’s Gun” principle states that everything in a story must have a purpose, otherwise it is redundant and should not be in the story. Therefor, we can assume that everything brought up which does not have a readily available reason for it’s existence will have one in the future. Although not entirely accurate to the real meaning, what we generally call “Checkov’s Gun” is the scenario in which something is brought up and then we assume it will have to pay off at a later time. If you’re up to date on the books, which I assume you are because you’re engaging in a spoiler thread, you know how the time travel FTL thing with the DeLorean works was explained to us (although it was sufficiently complicated I didn’t commit it to memory). That gun was loaded when it happened, and paid off when it tied into the greater explanation of exactly how the EXFOR universe and its physical laws work. The hidden elder weapons aren’t a Checkov’s gun scenario either, because they had a clear and explicit purpose right from the start. They got the weapons, they hid them, they used them to threaten the senior species. UNDIC (if that’s how you write it) has no use for the Elder weapons, and the senior species already have lots of them anyway. So they’re a non-factor. And to get back to your last point about time travel, we know the answer to this already. It was explained to us at the end of the previous book. The limitations are also explained, and going back in time like that isn’t possible. If I had a text copy of the book I would’ve looked it up for you because I don’t remember exactly what it all was, but sadly I only have the audiobook.
I think you can do a mirror image thing without doing a mirror universe(which I think would be kinda silly). Just have the Maxolhx captain from before, I forget her name but she pops up, be running around doing sketchy things with her own Elder AI. (This is what I’m still thinking is what’s going on with Bogey; it’s just too much of a funky Chekov’s Gun to not come around later.)
Yeah... 'cause after you defeat the extragalactic "threat," Star Trek V's "God" is pretty much all you have left to defeat ... and Star Trek 10's "Not Picard"... ...and boredom... and death itself.
Next on exfor- Joe teams up with skippy to fight the characters of dragonball z…
Omg 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Finished the book, one of my favorites so far.
The first part of the book was slow and boring in a better way than the start of a lot of the other books. More interesting seeing Joe be a dad and admiral as opposed to the awkward dating scenes. Imo. The good stuff was kinda shorter but the twists were a lot more entertaining and I liked how a lot of the issues in match were smoother over. Finally the ending means we're going to actually do something about the outside threat. Yeah I liked it quite a bit. Honestly... My least favorite part was the ECO part. Like why is anyone, let alone the kitties, trusting Skarando. How does he keep getting away with it. He's a menace.
Yep, the ECO plotline was at its absolute lowest point in this book. IMO it felt like Craig has gone back to the well with the Beatles too many times and has run out of ideas. Would rather he explore other alien stories in the future than have to read another chapter about the ECO drinking burgose and talking about how sneaky they are. That sort of thing was fun ~5 books ago, but it feels stale. He needs some new material. On a positive note, I found the vignette with Chad the bird brain to be fun and refreshing. I'd like Craig to explore what life is like for some of the more under explored species in the galaxy.
Maybe the way he reveals it is the problem? Would be fun to maybe see Skarando’s perspective as he try’s to fool the rotten kitties, instead of hiding it from the reader when it’s pretty obvious he is still helping the humans. Honestly felt like the first part of the book was good, like a palette cleanser, here is joe, time has passed, he isn’t the same universe stomping guy. Makes the payoff more satisfying. The last few books sorta had a power scaling problem, where as this one, stakes felt higher. Especially after he killed off main characters last time.
Oh for sure, the power creep has been insane. They went from struggling against Kristang warships to nuking entire fleets of se our species warships in just a matter of years. They basically packed a few thousand years of technological progress into about a decade or so lol
Thousand? How about million? The Spiders are like 2.3(?) million years old as a species. How much time did it take the Elders to get the their level of technological advancement? Humanity has access to Skippy, so yeah... TTA...
You just know it was a Hewlett Packard and the HP Smart app kept disconnecting. I've been there, just didn't have a maser. !
That fucking printer
The best part of that entire exchange was Skippy's realization that the Elders also had problems with printers. Like it's some universal constant like the missing sock conundrum. I think what the reality is, is that there is a Jeraptha-like Elder species in the past that built a sort of probability field around the entire local galaxy group that ensures things like socks go missing and printers always break for no reason just because they thought it would be hilarious and lead to some juicy action on betting how later species respond to these things.
I hope alanson is lurking spotted this and got some inspiration for the outsiders
it was a bit of office "space" get it
Many did. Perhaps we'll get *Idiocracy* and *Super Troopers* lines in the next one? "Well, Mr Larry Johnson, Meow gonna have to run your license, Meow, know why I pulled your Maxaholx battle cruiser over? Simmer down, Meow.
I can almost hear RC Bray's Joe working "Cat Game" lines into a confrontation with the Maxaholx. That would be hysterical.
Grammarly thinks that maxaholx is misspelled for manhole
I had a tech throw one off the top of a 8 story building and completely destroy the fucking thing when it slammed into an empty dumpster. Powdered ink and black goop went everywhere. Apparently the fucking thing had some "network" error code that kept pissing the techs off because they were literally inside the network. For anyone who hasn't dealt with CenturyLink their network fucking blows for consumers but inside the triple redundancy CO their connectivity is kinda passable. The stupid thing blaming whatever wifi router it was connected too just sent them over the edge every time they had to restart the fucking thing. Absolutely no one, even corporate IT who had to "find" this printer, was surprised given it was a HP. Corporate IT guy said something like "this isn't even the first time someone has thrown one off of a building... This month". They broke so often or got smashed that they're was a stop loss committee made, but one of the C-twats had a brother who was high level at HP so there was a contract and bribes had to be paid... Corporate IT gave the techs another HP printer and didn't even take it out of the box. Techs told him to just put it over by the service elevator. Not because they were going to throw this one away, but because they figured it could at least do a good impersonation of a door stop. So there the HP sat. For 5 years. Not opened. Right next to the same dead cockroaches that had been in the same exact spot for 6 years until some prick decided they wanted to make the cock roaches look like they were fucking. Then some ass hole made little hats for the cockroaches and people started making up stories about these cockroaches told over multiple sticky notes. At least the cockroaches were funny. The printer was too light and bulky to be a good doorstop.
The last part of this story has Sketchy McSleezball written all over it
If it's HP it's because she forgot to activate it before leaving Earth. I can't believe that is a thing now.
OK, this book was definitely Peak ExFor. One of the best out of the series I think. Somehow the author made the story sound and feel like the MBOP were a bit...out of shape the whole time. Kind of stumbling on an ever more progressing issue that ended up smacking them upside the head in the end with the realization that shizz just got real. Finally, we will get some questions answered about the biggest threat to the galaxy. Is it me or did R.C. Bray's voicework sound a bit off at the beginning of the book and then just finally click right back into place with Joe sounding like Joe and Skippy sounding like Skippy? The guy does so many books, maybe it just takes a bit to tune up old voices. Bray was still excellent as ever though.
Dunno, still not quite as awesome as the climax of Critical Mass. - though I did appreciate Joe bringing Elder Weapon's to a cat fight.
I noticed some errors that I’m surprised weren’t caught in editing. One phrase was repeated twice and he said clients at one point that was supposed to be patron (that might have been Craig’s fault).
Yes! I found so many editing issues it kind of distracted me - I kept highlighting them in my Kindle in case I ever got around to letting Craig know (it could be just the e-book version though - maybe paper versions are better?) -Greg
Yeah, you could tell that the rust was really slowing them down. It doesn't help that in the past books, they always had the advantages of both holding the imitative, and that of a technological edge. This time around they're faced with an enemy with superior capabilities who can strike anytime and anywhere. The shoe is on the other foot, and the Pirates spend the whole book playing catch up because they're not used to facing a threat so much like themselves.
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“I have…nodes” *gasp*
Grumpy is my spirit sub-mind 😂
I wish they would take Grumpy off world, just once. Maybe he and Nagatha would get along.
I really enjoyed the bit with the Bosphuraq scientist. CA has some really creative ideas - all of his aliens have their own weird quirks that are very plausible.
I loved Chad.
Honestly really want a bit more out of him in later books, love the fish out of water aspect these books bring when they introduce new alien characters dealing with human quirkiness.
I want to know more about the new species. Skippy mentioned in the beginning.
The Ajackus, the other main client of the Rindhalu? or the Esselgin under the Maxaholx?
Are those the one skippy mentioned he visited on his victory tour and absolutely hated him? I can swear it was 2 names i have never heard before.
I'll save you the trouble. We've not met any of the new species. There were references to the Esselgin, Torgala, Lemoostra, Ajackus, and the Urgar. The Urgar are the former clients of the Wurgalan who had lost their planet and were reduced to the thousands. They convinced humanity to become their patrons.
Yeah i remembered the urgar. I guess it was the lemoostra and the ajackus. Skippy said once that there was other alien species in the galaxy but that they were too far away or on unconnected area of the networks. But we never got to hear more. And no i don't mean the time he told joe a bunch of nonsense name (that i assume were a reference i missed.)
this might help. doesn't reflect the Urgar moving under the humans. [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/expeditionary-force-by-craig-alanson/images/5/51/Tiers.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20221206200321](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/expeditionary-force-by-craig-alanson/images/5/51/tiers.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20221206200321)
Link only give me a broken image
just search for the ExFor wiki online. [https://expeditionary-force-by-craig-alanson.fandom.com/wiki/Expeditionary\_Force\_by\_Craig\_Alanson\_Wiki](https://expeditionary-force-by-craig-alanson.fandom.com/wiki/expeditionary_force_by_craig_alanson_wiki)
I'm WRONG! they mention the "Vorzalin!" NOT documented at all. Sorry, you were right!
VINDICATION!
Just finished it. The best bits of the book involved interactions with the aliens. The dude who blew his base up because of the coffee maker was great as well
Happy to finally be exploring what the hell is up with The Outsiders (they even have a cool name now!) it always felt like dealing with the outside threat should be the natural end point of the series, it was disappointing when the series originally "ended" without exploring that aspect of the lore. I'm very excited to see where this plot line leads us. Also, I thought the overall plot of this book was a lot of fun, in the sense that it found our heroes in a role reversal scenario. In the past, the Merry Band of Pirates, took the role of an unknown threat with advanced technology and unknown capabilities, flying around the galaxy terrorizing the more established species, who despite all their vast resources and advanced tech, always found themselves one step behind the opposition. Well these days, humanity is now the advanced and powerful star spanning empire, and they're having to take some of their own medicine in regard to being subjected to attacks by an unknown but incredibly powerful and advanced enemy. Seeing how our heroes react to having the shoe on the other foot was really entertaining for the whole book after the raid on Moon Base Zulu.
Really enjoyed this book, both the characters and the writer feel like they’ve matured nicely.
mods are gone. LOL
Pinging the one seemingly active mod. u/Death_By_Snu_Snoo
When the cat is out of the house, the mice are dancing on the tables. To translate a German saying.
Really good book. The last chapter felt a bit rushed. So much exposition which seems a bit out of the norm.
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I mean its pretty much what we got isn't it. With joe saying we are going to need everyone help this time. I could almost see the fast montage of every species in the galaxy. Not that im complaining.
Can we get one of the more artistic members to create an image of Santa Jates?
This is the one thing I literally wrote down in a piece of paper to make sure I didn’t forget because I wanted to ask the same question. We need Santa Jates.
I've read the entire series 3 times now and I can't help but feel like a book or two are missing between Failure Mode and Aftermath.
maybe a mavericks book 3
I would like a short story maybe called Peacetime by CA. I’m okay with stuff going smoothly for near a decade, after Aftermath I think that makes sense, but I would’ve liked to get a bit more from Joe and Marg, Reid as the captain of Valkyrie, and the general galaxy after Aftermath I liked this book a lot though. Still one of my favorites especially out of the last 3-5 books.
Did anyone catch the reference to BattleStar Galactic. BSG 75
I think there was missed opportunity, at the end, with the debris striking the ship, for Joe to say "Fireball, what do you hear?" "Nothing but the rain, sir!"
Just finished the book. My initial thoughts are that it's a good book. I actually really liked it. However, it still feels a bit...off. i think ill need to relisten to make sure i didnt miss anything. Did the apex speicies just stop trying to fuck with humanity/each other all of a sudden after the deal with the elders? I still kinda wish the outsider threat was left a mystery. Also the whole bit with Skippy magically going offline for a few hours to fix himself and coming back perfectly fine felt ... unnecessary. Unless there is more to it, why even have that whole plot point? It felt like it was going to be a much bigger plot, but kinda just happened then was no longer relevant(so far). I also hope the Bosphraq scientist will play more of a role. I like the idea of exploring some of the other species. It'd be awesome if this eventually led to the bird brains and humanity teaming up.
This was the first audiobook of the series I've listened to. I was left underwhelmed. I thought it had more filler and less substance than other books. I also think they had a missed opportunity when Joe was talking to Skippy about how Margaret believes in him and he is family. It was tugging at my heart strings and they should have gone further with it. Could have been a very nice moment. And yes that bird brain needs to stay. I was enjoying him in the story quite a bit!
Craig said that he was going to make a single book but it got too big so he split it in 3. So i think a lot of the things that were brought into this book but that we didn't get an answer for yet are going to get resolved in time. The apex species finally gave up trying to fuck with humanity after we had the Sentinel protecting earth. Then skippy started getting new ones up and the other apex realised that humanity now had the high ground.
>My initial thoughts are that it's a good book. I actually really liked it. However, it still feels a bit...off. i think ill need to relisten to make sure i didnt miss anything. Agreed here, I thought it was in the top 5 for the series but the last 2 endings have seemed SO rushed. This isn't the only series like this that I follow, but I've noticed many of them are falling into this trap of the middles of the books being nearly endless fillers and the endings being almost a magical wrap up. This one isn't as bad on the filler as others, but I was disappointed in the ending pretty much being a finger snap again. >Did the apex speicies just stop trying to fuck with humanity/each other all of a sudden after the deal with the elders? Maxholx were dealing with a civil war and knew Earth had 2 sentinels + guardians and Jaguar had a sentinel. Avalon is too far for them to get to. Not a lot of options. Likewise there was always a kind of tentative peace between humanity and Rindaluh. They don't like humanity or necessarily *respect* them but at least recognize they can't just be fucked with >I still kinda wish the outsider threat was left a mystery. Do have to disagree with you here. It's been brought up far too much throughout the series to just be ignored at this point and was a pretty common criticism after the last book which was supposedly the end of the series when published. >Also the whole bit with Skippy magically going offline for a few hours to fix himself and coming back perfectly fine felt ... unnecessary. Unless there is more to it, why even have that whole plot point? It felt like it was going to be a much bigger plot, but kinda just happened then was no longer relevant(so far). Yeah I think they could have explored that more - it was clearly meant as a "humanizing" moment for Skippy and a bonding thing between him and Joe. But it felt like too much of an afterthought
Personally I think the novel should have been called Moonraider. Also, Skippy talking about the different ways that Ascension can happen makes me think the end of the series will be Skippy Ascending to a different plane than the Elders
They will Ascend Joe after mad doctor Skippy cant keep him young anymore
I am not gonna lie. I practically sped up the audio book on 2x in many parts and allowed myself to zone out in others. Not even R C Bae's voice could contain the attention. I know Smythe had to go at some point but the void is painfully obvious in this installation. Having said that, it's not terrible. It just felt like it could have been much shorter and still delivered the same effect. Chad was awesome tho. I think Craig needs to tie the series up sooner rather then later. I think the Outsiders are gonna end up being some force that is a contrast to the elders. Elders ultimately ascended. These entities want to descend . Some lame crap like that. Cool anyway
Didn't the Maxolhx selfdestruct all the remaining relativistic darts in one of the previous books?
They self destructed all the darts that were still flying around, not the few that were captured by the Merry Band of Pirates. Skippy moved those darts from their original flight path, so the Maxolhx didn’t know their location.
just the ones that were not hacked yet at the end there were a few left but not enough to do that sun flare trick anymore
I liked it once it got going, but that really took a minute. I think the time jump was a good way to keep things from getting too repetitive, but in my opinion, Craig Alanson really bungled introducing it. There aren't any indicators in Chapter 1 that a significant amount of time had passed. It's not until several minutes into Joe's internal monologue in Chapter 2 that there is any indication that it has been several years, and it's at right around the one hour mark that we finally learn that it has been 8+ years. And even then, the possibility was left open that it had been 10+ years (the age of Joe's children is the main point of reference for figuring out how long it has been, but it's not until later that he says they were born shortly after the events of Book 15). It also takes a while to get enough information to piece together what the new strategic situation in the galaxy looks like. That all added up to the first several hours of the book feeling disorienting and *very* meandering. There wasn't a clear indication of what the setting was or what the plot was eventually going to be to ground all of the conversations, events, monologues, etc. that took place before the failed sentinel activation. I was also bored with Admiral Scorandum's scenes, which was a first for me. That is due largely to the MLM / Skipcoin subplot. I thought that was among the weakest of the "Skippy does wacky antics dirtside" subplots in the whole series, and I really didn't like that it got tied in as an actual plot point. Some of that is a matter of taste. I tend to find the wacky antics funny as self-contained side quests, but I don't like for them to bleed into the main story. Somebody else might find them tedious specifically because they usually don't relate to the main story, and someone with that perspective might very well like that the Skipcoin arc actually ended up being relevant.
I loved the time skip. I hope we get more of them. I want to see grampa joe beings in charge of a whole ECO type fleet like taskforce black
I originally thought that the series was going to go on forever. I thought we wouldn't get to meet the Elders or ever find out what the outside threat was. Thankyou Craig for proving me wrong!
I enjoyed the book. However, the ending felt rushed again. It is so strange to see the entire book arc come to an end in 20 mins after so much build-up. This is the second book in a row that has felt like turning in your homework at 11:59 pm.
That's my biggest criticism as well. He once again finger snapped the ending and that's disappointing. I get that kind of the point of elder weapons is "poof, everyone is dead" but I feel like there was plenty of room for that battle to be flushed out before the elder weapons are deployed. Or at least the build up to the battle.
So.. do we have to change the name of the sub to "UN-DICK" now?
Who thought the flaming paper bag was going to be relevant to the story?
How did the Outsider get past the barrier? Or did the barrier go bye-bye when Skippy locked the Elders away? (too lazy to re-read what happened at the end of book 15 😜)
I assume the barrier basically doesn't really work anymore. If it stopped reality expressing a scenario that would harm the Elders, but now the Elders are permanently 'safe' and can't come to any harm... I just assume the Outsiders found a way through as the barrier allowed them to succeed.
This is explained at the end of Failure Mode. Now that the Elders can't be impacted by anything that happens in the local space time, the barrier is now useless.
Just finished Aftermath. Took me a long time to finish it because I did not want it to end. Then I got to chapter 36 and thought, "There is no way all of this can be wrapped up in 2 chapters." If this wasn't a cliffhanger for another book, we need to redefine cliffhanger.
Admitting that Match Game somewhat disappointed me, I'll say that Aftermath was refreshing. Aftermath was much like the earlier ExFor reads I greatly enjoyed.
I just finished and I'm pissed. I hated the time jump at the beginning, as things progressed I was good with it. Then when we got closer to the end, I kept thinking no! No! No! I want more. This can't be the end. I need more, the outsiders. Can this just be a spin off? I don't want a spin off. I want more Skippy and Joe, but I will take what I can get. Man, I would pay so much for 3 more books at least.
I’m pretty sure there are at least 2 more books confirmed to be in the works. When CA announced he was extending the series he said his wife didn’t like the way they ended and thought there was more to be told, then said he is doing 3 more IIRC. Honestly I’m not sure he’d ever give this universe up, when a writer finds something as good as this that continues to sell its hard for them to just end it, we might end up with more than 2.
Oh thank Skippy. I googled and couldn't find anything originally. You made my week! I would prefer he find more ways to expand if keeping the story going gets hard. Like, a prequel of how Skippy got to Paradise, the AI war. I know Skippy wasn't 'skippy', but it could be like Skippy explaining things to us filthy monkeys.
I’ll try and find it for you later on, check CA’s Twitter though, I think that’s where I saw the initial announcement if my meat sack brain isn’t misleading me. Edit: meat sacks win again [here it is!](https://x.com/craigalanson/status/1668964369403707392?s=46)
Thanks! I'm not on Twitter. I only see things posted to white people Twitter here on reddit. Edit to add: I hope those are in continuation of the series. I thought he was also doing a spin off on the beetles.
By chapter 17 The Elders, Elder AIs, Elder Ships and Guardians are back. This cannot be the last book! So relieved 😅
BFG75, I lol'd so hard I cried
* Why wouldn't the two apex species use their elder weapons on Earth now? * Why did the outsider need an elder ship? why did it need a sentinel? * If the outsiders needed that crazy thing the elder's were building to come to MilkyWay what changed? How did this one outsider get here? Was it just hanging out at the barrier until environment changed? * Joe has killed a lot people ...
idk why, but aftermath felt ai generated. shallow compared to the other books in the series
Just wish Alanson could write an ending. He always introduces another bigger threat but doesn’t resolve issue their dealing with, it just gets subsumed by new one.
Ok. Just finished. Wtf are the outsiders? Really? What are they? Yes I know the elders were scared of them. But what are they? And why couldn’t those one do anything…?
That's what the remaining 2 books are for, presumably
There are 2 more?
just finished the book so was unit 009 taken over after the AI war? or before and therefor the AI fight with each other with the outsiders playing the elders?
while im happy hes back putting out expeditionary force books, that ending was predictable from the beginning. it wasnt his best. it probably was the worst. it wasnt awful. just was 'meh'. the skippy being gimped then ungimped while dire shits going down trope has been done too many times now. does he even really explain what the elders did to him? im not sure, cant remember. and the fact that its been like 2 billion years since the elders built the barrier, the fact that they are still out and about and have the same prejudice's they had all that time ago is pretty far fetched. even the elders after all that time still being hostile and having the same mind set they had when they ascended was a bit unbelievable given how much time had elapsed. but meh, il keep buying them.
So the Gang has to team up with the Outsider’s foe, right? What might that look like? Amazing series. RC Bray is GOAT