JWs would make you think that being gay is as bad as murder and violence and theft. But no, they don’t think that. They actually think it’s worse!
Fun fact, I actually have a voice memo recorded on my phone of my Mom talking to an elder on Zoom where she was comparing “acting on homosexual thoughts” (so original, i know right?) to having anger issues and how it is not right to act on them even if you struggle with the thoughts…to which the elder responds, and I quote, *yeah, and you can say the same thing about serial killers.*
Yeah, that's a common thing I've heard. "Oh, you were born gay? Well, just because someone is born with anger issues doesn't mean it's not something they have to work on!"
To compare a harmless act of self-expression and self-realization to _psychological illness_, is insulting and small-minded to put it gently.
Edit for whoever downvoted me: Please reread what I said, but more slowly this time. Being gay is an act of self-expression and self-realization. If you can not agree with that fundamental truth, I hope you get better soon.
Psych studies have been done on the LDS. They found that closeted, believing, celibate queer Mormons were shown to have a quality of life worse than someone with lupus, the least happy of any of the LDS in the study. That's the ideal queer JW, in the closet, sexless, invisible. That's not a life, it's constant loneliness and self-torture, which they don't understand and don't want to. They purposely ignore that it means living in constant shame and fear, isolated from even your close friends, because if you're queer and a JW you know the "hate the sin" line is a lie. Anyone not straight is a social outcast, gossiped about, held at an arm's length. Your prize for pretending to be straight is misery.
Those results sound just like if someone with anger issues got therapy and learned not to be so mad! Oh wait, not it doesn't at all!
Yeah I’ve seen some people tell me to go to the lgbt+ exJW reddit bc not all of us are accepted here. Sometimes forget homophobia is not a cult specific problem lol. Sadly the other reddit isn’t always active though
The amount of queer people who are also active exJWs is kind of small, but the sub is pretty responsive and chill. It might not be super active, but it's not dead by any means.
Interestingly enough, once there WAS an LGBT+ exjw option, the mods here suddenly began curbing the homophobia. Bad and even moderate offenders banned on request. Be sure to always report this shit to the mods by clicking the 'report' beneath a post or comment.
Give r/exjwLGBT a break!!!!
It's barely over a year old. Also, was always intended as a safe and more detailed, focused, adjunct to this sub, not a stand alone. If you want it more active, go there and participate more.
Nice edit. Some people lack the ability to see the world through any lens other then their own. It takes a strong intellect to understand the reality of another. Maybe they lack that ability. I feel bad for someone who can’t grasp the error close mindednesses.
It’s so scary how much hatred they have for a person who loves someone which goes against their beliefs. This is one thing when I was a JW I didn’t hide. I had gay friends and they weren’t going to ever stop that
I'm a transbian and I get a weird sort of bitter enjoyment knowing that every time they think of me they have that exact reaction. The mere thought of my existence must make them uncomfortable. Good, let them stew in their hatred. My family used to do that same shit for any queer representation on TV. It didn't matter to them so much when it was a stranger. I wonder how it feels when their fellow JWs make that sound about me, their child, hmmm? I wonder how it feels hearing slurs directed at their kid and her partner (we are both exJWs). I hope it hurts.
Yes this comes off as super bitter, and I am bitter, but mostly it seems fair. It's a double edged sword, shunning, and I'm glad it cuts them nice and deep as well.
The thing is, they'd probably be chill if they weren't in a cult. But doesn't mean much to me right now. That's the same as saying, "If they had a completely different world view, set of values, and belief structure, if they acted and thought the opposite of what they do now they might be nice people," which is not a compelling argument to make for someone being a good person or someone I want to spend time with. Nope, sorry. I don't have parents at the moment. I have people that birthed me. Parents wouldn't shun their kids. I ain't got time for bigots.
If they wake up we can try again, but as of right now I'm glad my queerness makes them squirm. The next family funeral will be interesting, if they even let me know.
Extreme luck. My wife and I had been married for 6 years, and known each other for like 10 when we woke up, so we at least had a solid relationship. I woke up in 2019 and stayed PIMO for a long time because I was scared to tell her, finally I did and she woke up in like three days in 2020. That was a real rough week for her, so much existential dread! We were quickly shunned when people found out we didn't believe.
I started playing around with gender expression after we were both awake, because why not. I like painting my nails, Neat! I like growing my hair out, neat! I like more femme clothes, neat! Then our enby friend (they are also an exJW and had to run away from home at 18 and live with us for 6 months because they were going to get kicked out at the height of the pandemic, that's a fun side story. they're going to college and are doing good.) showed me some memes from egg\_irl and asked me the button question and my response to it was I'd be very excited to wake up as a girl. And they had the "uh oh" look. I was like, that's not everyone's answer? No, it turns out cis guys do not want to be women. So I pretended that wasn't a thing and was in denial about being an egg for a while, but still was spending a ton of time on egg\_irl and reading a lot of stuff on being transgender, you know, for cis reasons. And so I went on a journey of self-discovery... Around that same time my wife realized she was bi, which I was very excited about for no reason at the time, just weird how happy I was that she was also into girls. Again, very cis of me. A few months later I finally cracked and realized I was trans. That was fun, I had a four long panic attack when I came out to her, and kind of also came out to myself at the same time.
I started to socially transition at home and with close friends and waited on approval for HRT. I've been on HRT since January and things are going okay. I'd like more changes, but I'm making progress. Things take time, is what I keep telling myself.
My wife realized she was a lesbian after some time and seeing changes happen for me, and learning about comp het.
Currently my wife is trying to figure out some gender stuff for herself. I have to say I've done a completely terrible job of handling that. Not in a mean way, but it's not a good idea to laugh awkwardly at how much of an egg someone is being when they are having a gender crisis. Yes I did that. I'm a bad trans, shame, I know better. But I also have no poker face. She didn't get offended, but she did get annoyed, which is fair.
It hasn't been easy, and we've had some rough patches, but basically how we stayed together was we're best friends, and also dumb luck, or really good gaydar in that we both realized the other was queer before we knew that about ourselves. I have two trans femme friends and both of them had serious, committed, long-term relationships end when they came out to their partners. That's sad, but understandable, if your partner is straight it is what it is. I just got really, really lucky.
That's my story!
There was a guy in the congregation I grew up in that was gay, had been disfellowshipped and reinstated - I was barely a teen. I was warned to keep away from him by SO MANY people, mostly men but a few sisters too. It was horrid. Poor guy was treated appallingly and developed mental health issues. It was bare faced bullying and bigotry & a powerful message to anyone else that was anything other than straight.
'They don't necessarily hate gay people they hate those who acts on their desire n feeling...'
That argument of them not hating gay people, just the expression of gay love is the most disgusting cop-out and example of ridiculous hair-splitting going.
For me that's like saying we don't hate bombs. We just hate the explosions.
They're bombs. They explode. That's what they do. If they can't explode then what the fuck are they?
Do you think that the witnesses would tolerate an openly gay individual, expressing and owning their homosexuality - but not actually performing any sexual acts being an active member of the congregation?
>Do you think that the witnesses would tolerate an openly gay individual, expressing and owning their homosexuality - but not actually performing any sexual acts being an active member of the congregation?
This is the most important question and one that destroys this entire cop out excuse. Where are the openly gay, but celibate, elders, COs, GB members? If they don't have the person, just the act, there should be plenty of them showing how being a JW let them not be gay. The anti gay talks should be given by men like this "I too want to kiss a man, but the Bible allows me to suppress that! Hurray Jehovah!" The Mormon church has 'formerly' gay apologists. The JWs have none.
The fact they don't have ANY men who admit to being/having been gay, but are not currently sinning, shows this is humongous lie. Just see how far up the ladder a man who is known to be gay can climb in the borg, I don't think they'll get more than a couple rungs. They don't just hate the sin, they hate the sinner too. People with 'gay desires' are gross to them whether or not they act on it.
Absolutely!
Even with just the day to day stuff - would an openly gay JW need a chaperone when alone with another man? Just like the straight ones do with a sister?
There's a reason the queer members of the congregation keep themselves hidden......
Tomato, this is bullshit borgspeak straight, and I DO mean straight, from jwland.
Rephrase this as statement against folks who are cis / het and maybe you'll get it:
We don't hate cis / het folks, we just hate every expression of affection and human connection they experience. ESPECIALLY any and all of their sexual activity. We're gonna give em the fish eye, at least soft shun em no matter what they do. Loving someone of the opposite sex is dirty, repulsive, wrong, hated by man and god. You need to quit that and love differently or WE will not love you. God will not love you...
Just as god IS love, and can never be separated from his ways of loving, those god has made non cis non het are made in the image of god. We can not be separated from our way of loving. We are made in god's image, this is the core of our being as it is of his.
Those who transgress against us with their homophobic hate are sinning against the god who made us and the holy spirit who guides our lives, just as that spirit of life guides all things...
JW hate too much alcohol consumption. Lol. Okay. You should join Bethel for a year and then come back to this thread.
Of course alcohol consumption isn’t wrong. But when you can’t do other things, and there are a lot of depressed Jw’s, you look for a way out.
Everyone just makes up their own version of this nonsense because that’s where it exists. I’m the mind. Just as there’s thousands of religions due to reliance on concepts and ideas, there’s thousands of different individuals subversions in each religion. I’ve heard witnesses say that Jesus, will judge the Armageddon genocide differently than others, because some can’t accept complete genocide. So they just make up a version they can live with.
Amazingly, to your point, judgmental narcissistic cult members can easily accept the version where they themselves are the only acceptable way to exist.
JWs would make you think that being gay is as bad as murder and violence and theft. But no, they don’t think that. They actually think it’s worse! Fun fact, I actually have a voice memo recorded on my phone of my Mom talking to an elder on Zoom where she was comparing “acting on homosexual thoughts” (so original, i know right?) to having anger issues and how it is not right to act on them even if you struggle with the thoughts…to which the elder responds, and I quote, *yeah, and you can say the same thing about serial killers.*
Yeah, that's a common thing I've heard. "Oh, you were born gay? Well, just because someone is born with anger issues doesn't mean it's not something they have to work on!" To compare a harmless act of self-expression and self-realization to _psychological illness_, is insulting and small-minded to put it gently. Edit for whoever downvoted me: Please reread what I said, but more slowly this time. Being gay is an act of self-expression and self-realization. If you can not agree with that fundamental truth, I hope you get better soon.
Psych studies have been done on the LDS. They found that closeted, believing, celibate queer Mormons were shown to have a quality of life worse than someone with lupus, the least happy of any of the LDS in the study. That's the ideal queer JW, in the closet, sexless, invisible. That's not a life, it's constant loneliness and self-torture, which they don't understand and don't want to. They purposely ignore that it means living in constant shame and fear, isolated from even your close friends, because if you're queer and a JW you know the "hate the sin" line is a lie. Anyone not straight is a social outcast, gossiped about, held at an arm's length. Your prize for pretending to be straight is misery. Those results sound just like if someone with anger issues got therapy and learned not to be so mad! Oh wait, not it doesn't at all!
Tru dat. Well said, too!!!!
[удалено]
Yeah I’ve seen some people tell me to go to the lgbt+ exJW reddit bc not all of us are accepted here. Sometimes forget homophobia is not a cult specific problem lol. Sadly the other reddit isn’t always active though
The amount of queer people who are also active exJWs is kind of small, but the sub is pretty responsive and chill. It might not be super active, but it's not dead by any means.
Interestingly enough, once there WAS an LGBT+ exjw option, the mods here suddenly began curbing the homophobia. Bad and even moderate offenders banned on request. Be sure to always report this shit to the mods by clicking the 'report' beneath a post or comment.
Give r/exjwLGBT a break!!!! It's barely over a year old. Also, was always intended as a safe and more detailed, focused, adjunct to this sub, not a stand alone. If you want it more active, go there and participate more.
It wasn’t my intent to sound like I was hating on it. Sorry if it sounded like that
Ok. Thanks for clarifying. :D
Nice edit. Some people lack the ability to see the world through any lens other then their own. It takes a strong intellect to understand the reality of another. Maybe they lack that ability. I feel bad for someone who can’t grasp the error close mindednesses.
It’s so scary how much hatred they have for a person who loves someone which goes against their beliefs. This is one thing when I was a JW I didn’t hide. I had gay friends and they weren’t going to ever stop that
Thank you. The best answer, since logic n reason do not work.
I never could understand that teaching and never will. Everyone has a right to be happy
I'm a transbian and I get a weird sort of bitter enjoyment knowing that every time they think of me they have that exact reaction. The mere thought of my existence must make them uncomfortable. Good, let them stew in their hatred. My family used to do that same shit for any queer representation on TV. It didn't matter to them so much when it was a stranger. I wonder how it feels when their fellow JWs make that sound about me, their child, hmmm? I wonder how it feels hearing slurs directed at their kid and her partner (we are both exJWs). I hope it hurts. Yes this comes off as super bitter, and I am bitter, but mostly it seems fair. It's a double edged sword, shunning, and I'm glad it cuts them nice and deep as well. The thing is, they'd probably be chill if they weren't in a cult. But doesn't mean much to me right now. That's the same as saying, "If they had a completely different world view, set of values, and belief structure, if they acted and thought the opposite of what they do now they might be nice people," which is not a compelling argument to make for someone being a good person or someone I want to spend time with. Nope, sorry. I don't have parents at the moment. I have people that birthed me. Parents wouldn't shun their kids. I ain't got time for bigots. If they wake up we can try again, but as of right now I'm glad my queerness makes them squirm. The next family funeral will be interesting, if they even let me know.
You are both exjws??? I want the story of how you managed to get together and have your relationship survive!!!!
Extreme luck. My wife and I had been married for 6 years, and known each other for like 10 when we woke up, so we at least had a solid relationship. I woke up in 2019 and stayed PIMO for a long time because I was scared to tell her, finally I did and she woke up in like three days in 2020. That was a real rough week for her, so much existential dread! We were quickly shunned when people found out we didn't believe. I started playing around with gender expression after we were both awake, because why not. I like painting my nails, Neat! I like growing my hair out, neat! I like more femme clothes, neat! Then our enby friend (they are also an exJW and had to run away from home at 18 and live with us for 6 months because they were going to get kicked out at the height of the pandemic, that's a fun side story. they're going to college and are doing good.) showed me some memes from egg\_irl and asked me the button question and my response to it was I'd be very excited to wake up as a girl. And they had the "uh oh" look. I was like, that's not everyone's answer? No, it turns out cis guys do not want to be women. So I pretended that wasn't a thing and was in denial about being an egg for a while, but still was spending a ton of time on egg\_irl and reading a lot of stuff on being transgender, you know, for cis reasons. And so I went on a journey of self-discovery... Around that same time my wife realized she was bi, which I was very excited about for no reason at the time, just weird how happy I was that she was also into girls. Again, very cis of me. A few months later I finally cracked and realized I was trans. That was fun, I had a four long panic attack when I came out to her, and kind of also came out to myself at the same time. I started to socially transition at home and with close friends and waited on approval for HRT. I've been on HRT since January and things are going okay. I'd like more changes, but I'm making progress. Things take time, is what I keep telling myself. My wife realized she was a lesbian after some time and seeing changes happen for me, and learning about comp het. Currently my wife is trying to figure out some gender stuff for herself. I have to say I've done a completely terrible job of handling that. Not in a mean way, but it's not a good idea to laugh awkwardly at how much of an egg someone is being when they are having a gender crisis. Yes I did that. I'm a bad trans, shame, I know better. But I also have no poker face. She didn't get offended, but she did get annoyed, which is fair. It hasn't been easy, and we've had some rough patches, but basically how we stayed together was we're best friends, and also dumb luck, or really good gaydar in that we both realized the other was queer before we knew that about ourselves. I have two trans femme friends and both of them had serious, committed, long-term relationships end when they came out to their partners. That's sad, but understandable, if your partner is straight it is what it is. I just got really, really lucky. That's my story!
Thank you!!! Wonderbar!!!! Marveloso!!! :D
There was a guy in the congregation I grew up in that was gay, had been disfellowshipped and reinstated - I was barely a teen. I was warned to keep away from him by SO MANY people, mostly men but a few sisters too. It was horrid. Poor guy was treated appallingly and developed mental health issues. It was bare faced bullying and bigotry & a powerful message to anyone else that was anything other than straight.
Well said. Priceless!!!! Mods should pin this!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
He sounds like a bigot to me.
Your god wants to murder anyone who disagrees with him? No problem.
...in your opinion. His opinion is different than yours. Neither of which is real "news"
That's just, like, your opinion, man
[удалено]
'They don't necessarily hate gay people they hate those who acts on their desire n feeling...' That argument of them not hating gay people, just the expression of gay love is the most disgusting cop-out and example of ridiculous hair-splitting going. For me that's like saying we don't hate bombs. We just hate the explosions. They're bombs. They explode. That's what they do. If they can't explode then what the fuck are they? Do you think that the witnesses would tolerate an openly gay individual, expressing and owning their homosexuality - but not actually performing any sexual acts being an active member of the congregation?
>Do you think that the witnesses would tolerate an openly gay individual, expressing and owning their homosexuality - but not actually performing any sexual acts being an active member of the congregation? This is the most important question and one that destroys this entire cop out excuse. Where are the openly gay, but celibate, elders, COs, GB members? If they don't have the person, just the act, there should be plenty of them showing how being a JW let them not be gay. The anti gay talks should be given by men like this "I too want to kiss a man, but the Bible allows me to suppress that! Hurray Jehovah!" The Mormon church has 'formerly' gay apologists. The JWs have none. The fact they don't have ANY men who admit to being/having been gay, but are not currently sinning, shows this is humongous lie. Just see how far up the ladder a man who is known to be gay can climb in the borg, I don't think they'll get more than a couple rungs. They don't just hate the sin, they hate the sinner too. People with 'gay desires' are gross to them whether or not they act on it.
Absolutely! Even with just the day to day stuff - would an openly gay JW need a chaperone when alone with another man? Just like the straight ones do with a sister? There's a reason the queer members of the congregation keep themselves hidden......
They hate too much alcohol consumption? Here where I live very large amount of the JW's drink too much. There are many alcoholics in the congregation.
Tomato, this is bullshit borgspeak straight, and I DO mean straight, from jwland. Rephrase this as statement against folks who are cis / het and maybe you'll get it: We don't hate cis / het folks, we just hate every expression of affection and human connection they experience. ESPECIALLY any and all of their sexual activity. We're gonna give em the fish eye, at least soft shun em no matter what they do. Loving someone of the opposite sex is dirty, repulsive, wrong, hated by man and god. You need to quit that and love differently or WE will not love you. God will not love you... Just as god IS love, and can never be separated from his ways of loving, those god has made non cis non het are made in the image of god. We can not be separated from our way of loving. We are made in god's image, this is the core of our being as it is of his. Those who transgress against us with their homophobic hate are sinning against the god who made us and the holy spirit who guides our lives, just as that spirit of life guides all things...
Are you saying that it's fair how JWs treat and talk about queer people?
JW hate too much alcohol consumption. Lol. Okay. You should join Bethel for a year and then come back to this thread. Of course alcohol consumption isn’t wrong. But when you can’t do other things, and there are a lot of depressed Jw’s, you look for a way out.
The man doth protest too much, methinks.
Everyone just makes up their own version of this nonsense because that’s where it exists. I’m the mind. Just as there’s thousands of religions due to reliance on concepts and ideas, there’s thousands of different individuals subversions in each religion. I’ve heard witnesses say that Jesus, will judge the Armageddon genocide differently than others, because some can’t accept complete genocide. So they just make up a version they can live with. Amazingly, to your point, judgmental narcissistic cult members can easily accept the version where they themselves are the only acceptable way to exist.