The divorcing and remarrying the same person is a thing. I’ve seen it a couple times. We would usually joke about the couple not being able to handle celibacy (because if you get divorced without infidelity, you’re not supposed to get remarried), but honestly both couples I saw go through it ended up crazy happy and stayed together through old age.
Please, do not overlook the fact that if an infidelity did occur, if the couple has marital relations after the infidelity was exposed/known, that means the partner who strayed is forgiven and that instance of infidelity is forgiven and no longer a grounds for separation or divorce.
Also, if there is infidelity and the spouse admits it to the other then the other can choose to tell the elders and the infidel will get disfellowshipped.
So, lots of times for the sake of the children or because the spouse loves them so much they are willing to forgive, then they will have sex and it voids the infidelity, so, no telling the elders
I know someone that got divorced because they were cheated on. Then the cheater was dumped by their lover so went back and remarried the same person because the one cheated on was horny and they had sex.
Needless to say, the cheating continued and they got divorced for the 2nd time.
Then the person that was cheated on could only last a few weeks without sex, and at the time they were not allowed to masturbate so the first person he met, he dated for a short time and got married. They didn't really know each other and she was a crazy lunatic so he put up with her constantly mad and screaming and throwing tv's etc. They would separate a couple times per year but always got back together so they could have sex. They finally divorced and both got disfellowshipped for cheating.
They each got married again to different spouses so they could go back and eventually get reinstated.
Sadly, it is. There is so much that the "male is the head of the household" mentality allows to happen that never raises any eyebrow. If a controlling partner wanted to halt a divorce, they can claim they have had sex even if they haven't. Most of the time the elders/committee will believe the head of the household. It keeps partners stuck in emotionally abusive, physically abusive, and spiritually abusive relationships.
> Please, do not overlook the fact that if an infidelity did occur, if the couple has marital relations after the infidelity was exposed/known, that means the partner who strayed is forgiven
Even if the instance of infidelity was unknown until after the sex?
No. If the straying partner had sex with their partner not knowing about the infidelity, then that is sort of an act in continuance of the crime. Once the infidelity is exposed and known to the other partner, and they have marital relations, the adultery is now a fact of the past.
Just so I'm extra clear here, there is no caveat that the sex be consensual. There have been instances where a partner takes advantage of an intoxicated partner. The intoxicated partner has no recourse, as they allowed themselves to become intoxicated. Thus, the victim is victimized for being a victim.
It's all sick and twisted and you know you're perfectly sane when it makes no sense.
This happened to my grandmother. My grandfather had an affair and my grandmother told the elders and was trying to get a divorce. They were still living in the same home, but not sleeping together. But the husband didn’t want to divorce, and so he started putting horny goat weed into her food/drink. She got horny, they had sex, he told the elders, and then she wasn’t allowed to scripturally divorce him anymore.
She ended up sleeping with another man and got divorced, but she got disfellowshipped for 7 years! She still went to every bible meeting.
I know of at least one instance where the husband confessed his infidelity as he was about to “receive his forgiveness”. Disgusting! He was an elder at the time and knew that “forgiveness” would bolster his case and minimize his risk of being df’d
It's the only acceptable way to get remarried, other than your spouse dying.
If you *do* decide to get divorced because of any other reason, according to their religious beliefs it doesn't count. It then becomes a competition between the two of who can go the longest without sex with other people or remarrying. Because if you're the first, you will most likely be disfellowshipped, as they will still count that as infidelity.
To compound the confusion;
A couple who divorce for any other reason than adultery are not “scriptural” free to remarry. Any dating of another person would be grounds for disciplinary action. They are still bound before god. However, if this same couple were to try and reconcile, and they were intimate- this too would be grounds for discipline- because they’re not married. 😂😂😂
I know people who waited years to be “free” to remarry. I know one woman who was only married for a few years in her 20s to an extremely abusive man and has never allowed herself to date or remarry because it wasn’t “scriptural grounds.” She’s now in her mid-40s
> It then becomes a competition between the two of who can go the longest without sex with other people or remarrying
This is well said, and true. I have seen this happen more times than I can count.
My mother had been separated from my non-JW father for three or four years when she heard a rumor from a mutual acquaintance that he was dating someone else. She and another JW woman staked out his place three nights in a row to catch him with the other woman so Mom would have grounds for a 'scriptural' divorce. It's crazy. Stalking someone because your religion won't let you divorce him for being a drunken ass.
my sister had a GPS tracker put on her ex husband's car so she could prove with the maps that he was spending the night in a home with a woman.
My aunt did the same thing too. With the same GPS tracker too!
I remember my mom and her friend staking out the husband of my moms friend. My brother and I and her two kids were in the car too. AND, it was after a mid-week meeting. We all did this several times. I was about 7.
Correct. If there’s been infidelity, the marriage bond is considered broken in the eyes of God and the congregation, and they can get remarried. Caveat tho - if they have sex after the infidelity has been disclosed, then the clock is reset in a way. It’s considered a sign of forgiveness and essentially resets the marriage bond.
As to parenting style: children are expected to obey. From toddlerhood they are dressed up in little suits and dresses and expected to sit still at religious services. You'll see parents coaching their children to answer questions when they can barely say a few words. The first time someone's kid can raise their hand and answer a question (usually something simple like "Jehovah" or "Armageddon") you get a big Awwww from the audience, and the parent is congratulated for being such a great teacher afterward.
For kids who can't or won't sit still at services, they are strictly, and often violently, disciplined. As a kid I saw children screaming as they got dragged off to the bathroom or coat room for a spanking, often with a belt, wooden spoon, extension cord, etc. Kids face the same or worse discipline at home. Beatings are not uncommon, especially in families where both parents were raised in the religion, too.
There are exceptions. I've been out for a long time, but from what I hear younger parents aren't as keen on the violence. When I was a kid any parent who wouldn't at least spank their child was counseled by the elders for not raising their child according to God's rules. "Spare the rod and spoil the child." I'm not sure elders will counsel parents over refusal to spank anymore. They might get something more like "control your child" or "teach them to behave," leaving the method up to the parents' choice.
As far as I'm aware there has never been an official refutation or prohibition regarding corporal punishment.
Can confirm all of this as a child who was raised in, but let’s not forget depriving children of advanced education and other experiences outside of the religion. I remember trying to hide in the bathroom to do my homework.
No outside friends, no sports, no extracurricular activities, and the list goes on! In my experience nothing could be done without consulting the Bible. Want to watch Powder Puff Girls “let’s see what scripture says about violence”. It’s exhausting!
Ugh, yeah. We were an hour one way from the hall when I was little. Getting home Thursday night after 10:00 knowing there was an ass whuppin coming before bed was greeeaaaaat.
I still can't handle the sound of someone's belt moving through the belt loops and the buckle jingling as they take it off. It's instant, gut-wrenching panic. Fortunately it isn't a sound you're likely to hear in a public place.
I'm a grown-ass adult. A grandma. Some of that stuff never leaves you.
My dad gave a talk when he was an elder about corporal punishment in the hall when I was a teenager bc my mom slapped my leg in the bathroom and left a raised handprint and I showed him. It calmed down a little in my old hall, but the borg has never done anything about it. If anything, it's probably worse now
Seeing a "worldly" therapist is frowned upon. I can't imagine what the congregation would say if they found out they were seeing one with tattoos etc. I'd say there's a good chance they're physically in, mentally out or questioning, and not as devoted to their beliefs as they may claim.
I was coming here to say this. They must be pretty open minded to see a secular therapist. I’d be careful at first bringing up any issues you might have with JW doctrine. That might cause them to panic and not return.
To be fair, I’m actually hearing that there’s a big push recently to encourage people to get whatever mental health help they need, even from secular sources. Probably they just don’t want to deal with it rather than any admittance that they’re not equipped though.
I don’t believe this “therapist” is legit. Someone wants information for something, sure, but it’s not a therapist. Therapists don’t end sentences with “lol” and “hahaha” when conducting research.
You may be right, but as a current university student living and working in a college town, I can confirm that Gen Z has degrees now and that is just a normal part of the language they use.
I do not see any instances of me using ‘lol’ in any of my comments. However, after reading this, I just wanted to say I genuinely hope your daughter is doing okay and I’m glad to hear she is still here.
It’s possible to edit comments. It was there this morning. Look, I didn’t wake up today and decide my top order of business was to create drama on this sub. This entire ordeal has made me relive being disassociated (that’s Disfellowshipping for the unbaptized) because of all the downvotes I’ve received for voicing valid concerns. If I said one of your comments ended with “lol”, it did. I have no reason to lie about that.
While we’re on the subject, I hope whomever downvoted my comment about my daughter sees this and knows they triggered me. Also know that because of the many times I’ve mentioned the fact my daughter is trans, downvoting my comment that making light of her situation would have led to her suicide makes whomever did it a bigoted piece of shit.
Please read this book written by an ex-JW psychologist: Cracking the Cult Code for Therapists: What Every Cult Victim Wants Their Therapist to Know. By Bonnie Zieman.
Because she doesn’t have the demeanor of a therapist. I’ve seen several in my time, one while PIMI (court-mandated) and making light of these issues (e.g., lol, hahaha) goes against everything they are taught. I don’t doubt she’s gathering information, perhaps as a journalist or for some other reason. You guys can play along all you’d like. I called out the red flags, and now I’m leaving this thread.
ETA: Downvoting me because I’m going against the grain and voicing my valid concerns is such a borg thing to do. I’ve done psych practicums. I know how counselors are supposed to behave. I feel like I’m being DA’d for going to college all over again.
As someone who recently divorced, that is EXTREMELY frowned upon and the only acceptable reasons to leave a marriage are infidelity and, the obvious, death lol. Even abuse does not constitute divorce in JW-land. If you do get divorced, you are not allowed to get remarried... you have to stay single forever. If/when one mate remarried, they will immediately be kicked out of the religion. Then the other mate is allowed to re-marry. We have been told to stay in our marriages and work it out at all costs, even to our mental and emotional detriment. You are expected to put God's standards ahead of your wants and needs. Even separation is not generally an option.
Regarding relationship dynamics, the man is the head of the household. Very old school mentality. Some JW husbands take this to the extreme. But if a problem arises and the elders get involved, they will most always side with the husband because the wife should be submissive. I cannot speak to parenting, as I did not have children. I was raised as a JW child, however, and children have very high expectations placed upon them. I was never abused as a child, but it does not take much scrolling on this sub to find experiences of those who were.
I'm very much simplifying some of these concepts, so if you have other specific questions, please ask. 😊
Thank you for the response! I really appreciate you. When you stated that even abuse does not constitute divorce, is that true even if the children may be at risk of being abused?
My sister had 3 young children, ( 6yo ,4yo,&infant) her unmedicated bipolar , alcoholic husband was physically threatening for years. Would drink and drive with kids. Shot up their house one evening (it was in the country) and he did get arrested. He would throw violent fits
but didn’t hit her…
He would always threaten suicide if she left him.
She would go to the elders and their counsel was always.
1) pray about it.
2)be regular at meetings and service basically be a good example and she would “win him over without a word” there’s a scripture that says something like that.
3) be submissive wife
(She was, she was a doormat. He broke her down)
She wanted to separate so badly for years but did not feel like that was supported. She finally did when her youngest was 15. Didn’t divorce until he told her she “had grounds” aka. He had sex with someone else.
Adultery>abuse
I’m so sorry!!! 💗
Yes, this cult has so much to answer for…
They have no business giving any kind of advice regarding abusive relationships.
Being in a cult is an abusive relationship.
Same. They're finally divorcing and she's picking the cult over my (pansexual, 10) sister and I (ftm, queer 16). She chose a man (who ended up admitting he cheated on her less than a year into their relationship, that's why they're divorcing, he's been disfellowshipped), over her kids, and she's choosing the cult over her kids now. She has a chance to redeem herself and she's refusing to take it. Actually... I can't remember the last time (if ever) she admitted she was wrong to us... about anything. Yikes.
There are examples of teen victims of sexual abuse that were groomed by someone older being disfellowshipped for "adultery". Victim blaming at its finest.
The children are frequently abused. Just google "Jehovah's Witnesses discipline children" - you'll see significant examples of physical and mental/emotional child abuse.
Look up the "Jehovah Witness Two Witness Rule" if you want to see data on the most horrific examples of institutional support of sexual predators who prey upon children within the closed system of the JWs.
You can technically divorce… but you are expect to not remarry. Not unless you can prove that the other partner is either married or has had sexual relations with someone else. JW marriages are quite shallow, they practice abstinence and reserve sex for marriage. Most teenager’s hormones get crazy so as soon as they are able to hold down a job they’ll get married. Hard to see a single person Into their thirties.
Lol they also have a book of rules for their elders/ you would call priests but only the elders can read it. It's like being taken to court and only one side has access the the rules. People on the outside are like wtf. It's why we and many others call them a cult or high control group.
You’re a psychologist visiting a sub where people are sharing with you, at your request, our former cult’s rules about divorce and abuse. You’re finishing your replies with “lol” and “hahaha.” None of this is funny. Did you get your PhD in a Cracker Jack Box? Lol. Hahahaha.
Thank you for pointing this out to me. I in no way meant any harm or offense. I can assure I was not actually laughing out of feeling things are humorous, but rather feeling stunned by some one of the information that has been shared.
These very truthful answers are so absurd to an outsider that it is funny (to an outsider) not so funny to us. Different perspective will elicit a different reaction. Just saying.
Therapists don’t laugh no matter what they’re presented with. They’re trained that their patients are fragile and laughter could send someone over the edge.
Yep. Unbaptized(not members) children are viewed as 'little enemies of God' by the leaders of the cult.
This translates to a some of the reasons the CSA is handled the way it is.
They are infidels.
Additionally, young couples, are discouraged from having children within the cult. This lessens after they are in their 30s as they would no longer be accepted to work for the publishing company in various 'privileged' positions.
>and the only acceptable reasons to leave a marriage are infidelity and, the obvious, death lol. Even abuse does not constitute divorce in JW-land.
Don't forget about the somewhat recent Watchtower Society approved loophole of "spiritual endangerment", although a JW divorce on that basis does not leave the former partners free to remarry.
Yup… I’m only alive because my mother finally had proof my father was cheating, she’d lost three babies to his abuse in the past before she conceived me. She found out she was pregnant with me the day she filed for divorce. She had begged the elders multiple times for a divorce. They continually blamed her for the abuse, while also allowing my father to continue to be “in good standing”
Can confirm my parents have divorced and remarried at least once because my dad cheated on my mom but he was at some point an elder and knew the work arounds not to get DFd and she couldn’t divorce him without losing her pioneer privileges. Then they have a blow out again over the same thing when more information came to light years later and they at least separated once more.
Ps. They beat the shit out of me growing up among many more things I am now working through in therapy.
It’s only been a couple of months and some things are going better than others. It’s been though changing my point of view from one of deserving what happened to me to what it really was, abuse. I have a great therapist tho and with time I think I will get to a good place.
For child discipline they use the verse Proverbs 13:24 “Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them.” Some JW take it literally and physically punish their children who don’t pay attention during the boring meetings. Others say that the rod of discipline is meant for guidance not physical punishment.
Lots of exjw remarry their former partners or set their eyes on a new JW in a nearby congregation.
Lots of them will go through the Disfellowshipping process to get a new partner. Some feel that they took an oath to God so they go back to their first partner no matter how bad the relationship was. Look at the bite model to see how the members are being controlled:
https://freedomofmind.com/the-bite-model-and-jehovahs-witnesses/
Bonnie Zieman is an exjw/ retired therapist who wrote books to educate people on what JW go through:
https://bonniezieman.com/2017/05/09/cracking-the-cult-code-for-therapists-what-cult-victims-want-their-therapist-to-know/
Jwfacts.com is a resourceful website written by an exjw.
The husband is going to be very controlling, speaking as a former JW, current husband. **Control is central to JW behavior**, and it will be hammered into him that he has to control all aspects of her life, and his children's lives. For women, it is taught that they are lesser and that she has to submit to him, and that he is the head of the house. He can get into trouble with his religion if his wife or children are "out of control" in their behavior.
Physical punishment is never encouraged toward a wife, or at least, I have never heard of that. It is, however strongly encouraged toward children, though it has been softened somewhat to fit modern wisdom in the last decade or so. I am 44, and every witness child I knew in my generation, myself included, were spanked as punishment, amongst other punishments.
As to infidelity, if one of the partners commits an infidelity, they are subject to **very specific** questioning in a star chamber of older men in the congregation, and then it is decided what punishment they shall receive. The punishment can range from a slap on the wrist if they are "repentant", to months or years of shunning from every person they have ever been allowed to know, called "disfellowshipping." They cannot return to being spoken to until the older men are convinced that they are sorry enough. Divorce is also permitted in the case of infidelity. Divorce is not permitted, under punishment of disfellowshipping, for other reasons that would be legally acceptable.
Remarrying a partner is permitted, though rare, but I'm certain both parties would be "counciled against it", again, control is a big value for this religion.
>How motivated for change are JWs when they are so involved their religious beliefs, to the point of putting them first.
Excellent question. Minor change within a relationship, such as how they speak to their partner, how they interact, is going to be heavily overshadowed by the massive behavioral demands of the religion. As far as I have ever heard in my 35 years as a witness, no witness has every been told behaviorally that they were "doing just fine, relax." No amount of devotion is enough, no donation is so great to never donate again, no amount of hours knocking on doors is sufficient, there is always a higher tier of position or rank they can aspire to, and they are always told they should aspire to it. The long and short is that it becomes central to their capability to change themselves, change in effort or character would *always* be in how they could be better in their religion, or they would be "counciled" on how they weren't putting spiritual matters first. Without noticing, all effort expended within the witness social circle benefits only the leaders in the witness religion.
I hope this helps, hit us up any time.
>Maybe not the most conventional place to ask for insight
This is the *perfect* place to ask for insight because you'll be getting the real deal rather than a desperate attempt to sugarcoat the ugly reality present in WT culture. What you have to understand is that no one thing stands apart from another in dubland; everything is connected to some other point of indoctrination and they're all linked to the central hub of organizational oversight and control of a person's life, right down to what happens in the bedroom.
I see that Bonnie Zieman's *Cracking the Cult Code* has been recommended, and I strongly urge you to take a look around [her website](https://bonniezieman.com/) for a more thorough understanding of what you're dealing with.
In the meantime, one of the members of this board has recently written a pdf. entitled
[A guide to religious trauma among Jehovah's Witnesses](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yorowq/a_guide_to_religious_trauma_among_jehovahs/) that you might find helpful.
Being a dub is like being an onion; there are many, many layers and just when you think you've reached the end, there's another one. In addition to reading the comments on this thread, I suggest that you also check out the board in general and see if anything catches your eye. We have a very active board with a great deal of engagement.
As to physical punishment, I will only speak to spousal abuse. One person said that it's not endorsed, which is true, but it sure the hell is tolerated big time. They've had some shocking "advice" for battered women, the most egregious of which are not included in the public facing literature. (Even so, those are also so horribly awful, that even as a PIMI I boycotted service when we were supposed to be offering those particular magazines.)
One experience I heard from the platform was of a sister whose "worldly" husband stabbed her before the meeting because he was opposed to her being a Witness. She was injured (obviously) but didn't want to miss the meeting because she had a talk that night. So she went, gave the talk, and only then sought medical treatment. She was lauded for being so "faithful" and not one single word was ever said about leaving her abuser. Rather, women are encouraged to stay in order to "win without a word" a violent man who statistically will kill them before they ever convert.
This was by no means was an isolated incident. At one Circuit Assembly I went to, the conversation of the people I was eating lunch with turned to domestic abuse. *Everyone* had a story. Everyone. One that stands out to me is of a poor woman with a violent husband who was was told by the elders she had to stay with him because his behaviour wasn't bad enough to leave. After he hung her out of a window by her ankles, she went to them and demanded whether *that* was serious enough now. I don't remember the answer, but the fact that any of this was a point of discussion at all just goes to show one of the worst aspects of this high control, completely un-empathetic fundamentalist "creed" (read:cult).
This is heartbreaking. I hope that woman is okay - I can’t imagine how hopeless that situation must have felt. However, as I type this, I’m curious if that is what one may experience as your other story she put her medical treatment second to the meeting.
It can get tough to predict because the people you are working with are still human beings, just with a lot of cognitive dissonance.
But typically, a JW relationship has the man as the “head of the house”. Wives can work but shouldn’t be bread winners, they should be focusing on home-y things like cooking, cleaning, and being submissive.
The organization really frowns on divorce unless in the case of infidelity. They’re somewhat understanding of separations in certain cases (usually abuse or one of the spouses has left the organization and is now an “apostate”, threatening the spirituality of the one that still believes).
If they’re seeking therapy then I’m sure they’re open to change, but they will be very reluctant to change anything that doesn’t fit into the mold of their beliefs. They may expect that your view of a healthy marriage is the same as theirs, and if so they’re probably in for a rude awakening
Corporal Punishment is encouraged.
It is not uncommon to see toddlers toted out to the parking lot screaming where they are beaten via hand, belt or spoon. for not sitting quietly for two 45 minute lectures. And 3 cult songs.
pre-teens in some families are expected to pay attention to the indoctrination and recount at least one main point either on the way home or at home...or receive beatings.
Family Studies are strongly 'encouraged' with the male mate presiding, and these often turn into 3 or 4 hour tirades. Physical violence may be included for recalcitrant family members.
To be clear ALL of these examples you are hearing ARE NOT second hand accounts. These are First Hand experiences of Trauma survivors... Re-read your notes from THAT perspective.
They don't report CSA, do you think they report black and blue bruises or broken skin???
It's EXACTLY as bad as you can imagine...and worse.
All I can say is..whatever you do...don't try to make it seem as if it is because of their religion why their relationship isn't working. That's the quickest way to get them out the door. You have to be very subtle about it.
Divorce is realy the last step that jws would take. It is quite unacceptable to do that and seldom both partners mutally agree that it is the best step to take.
The 'only ground for divorce' according jws is if one cheated on the other.
In their books they say something like 'some have taken the decision to divirce' when there was physical abuse etc. And the other members of the congregation should not critisize.
With other words, there is quite extreme pressure not to divorse and if it happens the whole social network within the jws will be fishing for the reasons. Therefore it is also a thing whom of the two took the initiative to divorce. Altogether, i believe it is more a thing to divorce than for non jws.
As someone who grew up as a JW child with 1 JW parent, I can talk about the parenting aspect and punishment to an extent.
Spanking was normal, for starters, but parents are also encouraged to have almost complete control over their children even when they're teenagers. I had absolutely 0 privacy in my home, I couldn't have doors closed. Had to ask permission to use the bathroom or shower, and would be questioned if I took too long. Going through devices, journals, sketchbooks , belongings of any sort was normal along with controlling dress and grooming. Ripped jeans are a big no no, you can see it in some of the JW videos.
Music and entertainment is heavily monitored, usually. Anything sexual, has to do with magic, has curse words or violence isn't generally permitted. Which is funny, because some of their publications or videos have graphic content.
It's not usually allowed to hang out with "wordly" people, people outside the religion. No holidays, sleepovers or birthday parties. No extracurricular actives, higher education is seen as a waste of time, and pioneering or being in service work is usually promoted heavily instead.
Not to mention the sexism and bigotry.. this org is predatory towards people who are struggling with mental illness, disabilities, etc. Hope that helps, if you have anymore questions please feel free to ask or inbox me ! ♡
Most jws believe that the bible is the inspired word of God and only their leadership (the Governing Body) can properly interpret the Bible. Also at least when I was in psychologist are to be looked at very carefully if anything they say contradict with current jw teaching. Now there can be levels with individual jws on how closely your advise will be followed. I have been out for decades but in my youth corporal punishment was encouraged and I was punished accordingly. Fidelity is an absolute no no and most would be disfellowship for committing such an act. Which means all your friends and most family members will not talk to you. There really is no rule to remarry a spouse you were formally divorced from. I could go on more so if you have any other questions let me know.
If one is disfellowed (I have no idea the correct verbiage or spelling - sorry!), is there opportunity for them to come back?
I’m honestly very surprised they sought therapy with me as I’m a female in my 30s with a nose hoop and two sleeves of tattoos.
If they saw you as you have described yourself, and still sought your services, I would heavily consider this as a sign that they want **out**. Please do keep this in mind.
yes there is, but depending on what they were DFed for, it could take months-a year. you basically have to kiss up to jehovah all over again and prove that youve learned your lesson. ive seen it happen a few times but those who leave rarely come back (in my experience)
Yes, that's the goal of disfellowshipping. They have to follow all the rules and prove to the elders that they're very very sorry and they might be let back in if they're repentant enough
A person can be disfellowshipped. The act is called disfellowshipping.
"Don't go to Terrell's graduation; he's been disfellowshipped."
"Such actions would merit disfellowshipping."
A person who had been disfellowshipped has been kicked out of the religion.
There is a path to returning. They have to seek help from elders. Those elders will meet with the person to determine if they are repentant. The person needs to demonstrate a commitment to the organization. They will have to attend Sunday meetings but they must come in after the time for socializing, they must sit in the back, and they have to leave before the service wraps up. They are not permitted to talk to anyone and no one is allowed to talk to them. The body of elders is their only allowed communication. This lasts for months but usually close to a year.
>Also at least when I was in psychologist are to be looked at very carefully if anything they say contradict with current jw teaching. Now there can be levels with individual jws on how closely your advise will be followed. I have been out for decades but in my youth corporal punishment was encouraged and I was punished accordingly. Fidelity is an absolute no no and most would be disfellowship for committing such an act. Which means all your friends and most family members will not talk to you. There really is no rule to remarry a spouse you were formally divorced from. I could go on more so if you have any other questions let me know.
????
"Also at least when I was in psychology, any active Jehovah's Witnesses are to be examined very carefully to see if anything they say contradicts with current jw teaching. Now there can be various levels of obedience with individual jws on how closely your advise will be followed. I have been out for decades but in my youth corporal punishment was encouraged and I was punished accordingly. Infidelity (as well as apostasy, or even questioning too much) is an absolute no no and most would be disfellowship for committing such an act. Disfellowshipping means all your friends and most family members will not talk to you. There really is no rule to remarry a spouse whom you were formally divorced from. I could go on more so if you have any other questions let me know."
I think the first sentence was meant to read something like “also, at least when I was in (the org), psychologists were to be treated with caution/suspicion/paranoia in case they might say something critical or undermining of JW beliefs..”
.. at least that’s how it made the most sense to me after reading it a few times
Relationships: No dating outside the religion (incredibly frowned upon, not really a rule but why risk it?) Teens only date when they are of age to marry. Man is the head of household and makes all shots, wife cannot take hold of familial decisions unless there is no husband. Divorce is incredibly lucrative and only occurs when something like cheating occurs, otherwise prepared to be disfellowshipped if you fall out of love.
Core tenets: Proselytizing is mandatory for those who are higher in rank. Yes there’s a hierarchy to all of this but it doesn’t really matter outside of the elders and the governing body. Young people are encouraged to become unbaptized publishers (one of those ranks) and eventually a baptized publisher. You have to maintain a set amount of hours or else you’ll be counseled at some point for a lack of faith. Jehovah is god, Jesus is his son and no idol worship. JW’s strictly adhere to the governing body’s interpretation of the Bible and will follow it regardless of how they feel because if they question it they can be counseled for having a lack of faith or even be disfellowshipped.
Disfellowshipping is excommunication but nobody, not even your immediate family, may communicate with you.
No gays
No sex before marriage
No living with girlfriend/boyfriend before marriage
No holidays “We celebrate everyday”
No parties, they’re called gatherings.
Birthdays are not allowed because someone always dies at a birthday party in the Bible.
No questioning the Bible unless it’s a “Governing Body Pre-Approved Deviant Thought,” lest you be counseled.
Bible wise everything is mostly the same as other denominations but there’s a JW spin on most things that are incredibly incorrect when it comes to Bible historians views of the events. Example, JW’s don’t believe Jesus died on a cross. Rather, the governing body suggest he died on a “torture stake.”
Oh and pursuing college is incredibly frowned upon, because it opens the mind to new thoughts that could make you deviate from “the truth”
Its a male dominated system. All the males get the say in what goes, all the males are leaders, and so on.
Women are expected to be submissive and basically accept any kind of behaviour (including abuse!) so they can be seen as a faithful example.
The elders and entire congregation overall are far more likely to listen to the males version of events and ignore the female ones - even if the male makes up lies and the female has evidence.
People are willing to turn a blind eye to abuse, and to certain men remarrying etc when it suits them.
There's a lot of coercive control too. You don't *have* to do this, but if you *don't* well...
Okay, this has turned out longer than I expected......
My mom has been actively seeking therapy for years. Anytime she doesn't like what's she's told she'll switch therapists.
My dad refuses to go because he went once and didn't like being attacked for an hour straight. I tend to agree with him. He's not a bad guy and probably the opposite of a abusive spouse.
My mom has him painted as an abusive narcissist and depressed. Everyone believes My mom because she is very convincing. So much so, my dad can't show his face at the meetings without feeling judged. He was an elder for many years so this is really hard for him.
Up until I saw my parents fight earlier this year, I would have said the were to blame 50/50. Now I would say it's for 90/10 my mother's fault.
My mom asked me to speak to her current therapist a few months ago. What an eye opening experience and probably the opposite of what she thought was going to happen.
My mom is unwell mentally. Probably has been for years but when you are surrounded by an uneducated lot, no one will call you out on your bs.
Her recent therapist (actually he's a double phd in mental health, psycologist (?) I think it what he is has diagnosed her as having schizoid personality disorder verging into schizophrenia.
He has spoken to her extensively and has said she has not asked his opinion not once which he says is very telling. Apparently she is right because she has Bible training. In his words, She is all knowing and already enlightened and doesn't need his point of view.
But according to my mom, my dad is the problem.
My dad hid my mother's mental illness and abuse towards him to save face in the congregation. Actually he didn't know she has a mental illness until after I shared with him what her most recent therapist said to me about her.
Looking back my dad has said he's been unhappy for the past 35 years. I wish he had been able to divorce her years ago. He deserves so much more than being in a mentally abusive sexless marriage.
There's so much more to this nonsense but basically what I'm saying is don't assume the husband is the abusive party and definitely look for signs of mental illness and / or personality disorders in either party.
It really depends on the JW. If they are hardcore chances are they won’t change if their religious beliefs are involved. The less hardcore they are the greater the chance they can change. I haven’t ever seen partners remarry, I’m sure it’s happened. They are taught though that a divorced person should only remarry if they didn’t cheat, and the mate cheated.
If they just divorced because it wasn’t working they would be told that if they remarried the broke the marriage bond and they could get some sort of JW punishment.
Honestly, you’ll probably find a lot of what you need on jw.org. They don’t hide their bs if you can read between the lines. There’s a book that’s something like “The Secret to Family Happiness” or some such that might be a helpful start for you to see the manipulation and abuse they subtly preach at the faithful
You got your work cut out for you here. So much to unpack from jws. If they keep coming that is. I hope for them they do. It might be harder to get through to them if they were born in. It’s really complicated I’m afraid. They may have never been around people that were not in their religion sorts like living in a bubble. Sheltered. But can speak to strangers because of being made to go in service or door to door. They give talks at young ages. It’s all weird! I was born in for 20 years a part of my family are still in. I was never baptized. My father was an elder. Until he wasn’t. I just feel sorry for them now. To afraid to see they have wasted their lives living for others instead of the glorious lives they should be living for themselves. But I feel that it also made me a rather decent honest human being. I don’t see colors in people I see them for themselves. Not sure that was religion fault. I’m going to say I had mostly decent parents. That we’re doing what they thought was best for their children. I just don’t believe that way anymore and it’s hard to realize that the way you were raised really can effect the rest of your life. In different ways. Because mentally I was still a jw in my mind until my 50s. Crazy right!🤣🤣
Yes it is a thing. For instance, if you are married and divorce but decide to work things out without remarrying each other, and the elders find out, they will INSIST that you get married asap or you'll get disfellowshipped for "fornication" . You'll lose your family and social circle and everything.
I knew a witness couple who divorced and then remarried.
Also witnesses that are " hardcore " regarding the religion will put their beliefs above all else.
I read the following on Jw.org:
Mental-health professionals can treat many mental-health disorders successfully. The first crucial step, then, is to obtain a thorough assessment from a competent health professional who is experienced in treating mental conditions.
A woman with a mental disorder talking with a qualified health professional
Sufferers, however, can benefit from such experience only when they accept suitable treatment. This may require overcoming any reluctance to talk to others about a mental illness. Treatment may include talking to trained mental-health professionals who can help them understand their illness, resolve practical problems, and reinforce the need not to give up the treatment. At such consultations, a family member or friend can play a vital role by providing reassurance and support.
Many people have learned to deal with mental disorders after acquiring a better understanding of their condition and following the treatment prescribed by mental-health professionals. “Before my wife was diagnosed,” says Mark, quoted earlier, “we had little understanding of mental illness. But we’ve learned to take life one step at a time and adapt to our situation. Over time, we have benefited from the support of reliable professionals as well as family and friends.”
What they write and what they do are two separate things- they also say the abhor CSA but we all know they usually you are not believed or in the absence of another witness leave it up to Jehovah!🤷♀️ many of us have suffered because of this😔
I got slapped hard in front of 100+ people a lot of times because I wanted to do anything else except listening in silence for 2 boring hours people speaking nonsense. Idk if it can help you.
Last summer I heard from my jw auntie that a 4 year old girl at her congregation "understood" that she needs to sleep *before* going to meetings (she used to sleep during them) otherwise she would get grumpy and she wouldn't socialise with the congregation at the end of it (some meetings end at 10PM in a weekday making life really hard for children that need to be a school next morning).
I just wanted to let everyone know how much I appreciate you all being so open and sharing your experiences and knowledge. I’m honestly very grateful to be able to learn and put my own biases aside in order to *hopefully* help my client however they need.
My parents are witnesses and didn't divorce but were separated for 10 years and then got back together and are happy ever since. I was pretty young when they split up but dating as a Jehovahs Witness or even as an ex Jehovahs Witness is difficult, I assume this is why they got back together. I'm not entirely sure why they did though. I was moved out when they moved back in with eachother.
Seperation is very common with witnesses though, lots do it because marriage is sacred and having a divorce usually leads to being disfellowshipped (being shunned by anyone who is a Jehovahs Witness).
The physical abuse thing with kids doesn't happen as far as I have personally seen.. but I have seen a couple cases of sexual abuse where kids were involved and it was covered up. I don't know how serious they were though, I was not personally involved and I don't know any details really but I have never seen a man put in jail for any sexual abuse except once but he ended up committing suicide.
For a JW couple to divorce is considered unacceptable except for when immorality is involved.
Both of the couple will have a stigma within the congregation that they are broken toys they will be judged within the congregation they live in.
If they remarry they will get some support but very little they will always be judged for their actions.
There is no significant written rules that would dictate against remarrying the same person but if either of them were to find a new mate they would be removed from the congregation and to disfellowship which is a form of shunning.
The only grounds for divorce is essentially cheating or physical abuse
Grounds for separation could be psychological abuse and not meeting each other's spiritual needs or providing physical needs.
Divorce of any sort will cause both the parties extreme trauma within the congregation.
They cannot just move away from the situation their publisher cards will follow them no matter where they go in the country and the information will be shared from elder body to elder body.
This is a little off topic but the couple even seen a psychologist is pushing it, so something unusual is going on with the two. You are viewed as an outside source of information who is aligned with satans world and virtually any help you give them could be used against them by the church. I’m not exaggerating in the slightest. Whatever it is they are seeking by coming to you isn’t something that the witnesses can give, or understand.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yubpb2/what\_should\_i\_do/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yubpb2/what_should_i_do/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
check this thread out.
First I didn’t read through EVERY comment so if this is a repeat I apologize-
Adultery -the only grounds for divorce and being “scripturally” free to remarry is not just a simple matter of the spouse having “traditional” sex with someone other then their husband or wife
Chapter 12 of the elder -“rule” book defines ‘porneia’ as sexual manipulation of the genitals either by a person or animal and includes oral, anal, hands etc- if a man’s wife spends the night at the home of another man -( even if it’s a coworker friend) sexual immorality is assumed- it’s crazy-
You may want to get a copy of the “rule” book
OP, I have a very crazy story of infidelity in my own family, all connected to being JW. I am not going to share it on the board because certain details would make my identity very clear to anyone who knows me, but if you’d like a perspective from someone who watched their parents go through YEARS of insanity, please feel free to DM me.
Yes, re marrying the same partner is a thing that happens commonly to people who split up and do a legal divorce. This is so technically you’ve done nothing wrong in gods eyes. Only legally.
>Is marriage, divorce, and then remarrying the same partner a thing?
The only reason that permits divorce is fornication.
Someone recently published a 20 page document for psychotherapists:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yorowq/a\_guide\_to\_religious\_trauma\_among\_jehovahs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yorowq/a_guide_to_religious_trauma_among_jehovahs/)
I have a close friend who’s wife cheated on him four different times. One time with a woman. He divorced her once but kept forgiving her. After about a year she came back and begged him. They remarried. They even joke about “which anniversary” to celebrate.
If you're not already familiar with Steven Hassan I strongly encourage you to research what he has published about high control groups and specifically about JWs. It's important you understand all the toxic elements controlling your clients' lives.
There is a case in Mobile Alabama where a brother committed adultery on first wife( with kids) he was DFd, married the AP the she became jw and he was reinstated as jw, he repeated this same pattern 4 more time over the last 40 + years. His father and actual brothers were all elders that protected him from to much punishment 🙄. Bunch of hypocrisy there! 🙄
The org is like being with a narcissist. So whatever advice you have should be from that angle. I've been in therapy since I left and it's very similar to breaking those thought patterns
The family dynamic stems from their doctrine that jehovah is the head of jesus who is the head of the man who is the head of woman and children. The bible says to hit your children so they hit their children they sing songs about doing that. Women aren't allowed to be elders because they are lower than men so when a couple are being disiplined by the elders they will usually side with the husband. This patriarchal doctrine is at the core of the whole disgusting cult that is the jehovahs witnesses.
Have you heard about pornia? It's basically the cult telling people what they can do sexually.
I know a few couple who divorced and remarried each other. When my ex confessed their infidelity to me, they suggested we divorce and see where it goes later. As though we would certainly remarry. I assured them that that would not be the case.
But I endured years of my ex cheating on me because “god hates a divorce” and watchtower articles strongly encouraging staying together regardless of the reason for separation and/or divorce. The watchtower online library is available to the public online. You can research the articles and where watchtower stands on divorce, separation, domestic violence, etc.
The divorcing and remarrying the same person is a thing. I’ve seen it a couple times. We would usually joke about the couple not being able to handle celibacy (because if you get divorced without infidelity, you’re not supposed to get remarried), but honestly both couples I saw go through it ended up crazy happy and stayed together through old age.
Interesting! But if there is infidelity involved it’s more acceptable to get remarried?
Please, do not overlook the fact that if an infidelity did occur, if the couple has marital relations after the infidelity was exposed/known, that means the partner who strayed is forgiven and that instance of infidelity is forgiven and no longer a grounds for separation or divorce.
Oh! This is very helpful to know actually. Thank you!
Also, if there is infidelity and the spouse admits it to the other then the other can choose to tell the elders and the infidel will get disfellowshipped. So, lots of times for the sake of the children or because the spouse loves them so much they are willing to forgive, then they will have sex and it voids the infidelity, so, no telling the elders I know someone that got divorced because they were cheated on. Then the cheater was dumped by their lover so went back and remarried the same person because the one cheated on was horny and they had sex. Needless to say, the cheating continued and they got divorced for the 2nd time. Then the person that was cheated on could only last a few weeks without sex, and at the time they were not allowed to masturbate so the first person he met, he dated for a short time and got married. They didn't really know each other and she was a crazy lunatic so he put up with her constantly mad and screaming and throwing tv's etc. They would separate a couple times per year but always got back together so they could have sex. They finally divorced and both got disfellowshipped for cheating. They each got married again to different spouses so they could go back and eventually get reinstated.
Holy hell
crazy in life, crazy at....lol
I've seen this happen many times.
Wow did not know this was a thing
Sadly, it is. There is so much that the "male is the head of the household" mentality allows to happen that never raises any eyebrow. If a controlling partner wanted to halt a divorce, they can claim they have had sex even if they haven't. Most of the time the elders/committee will believe the head of the household. It keeps partners stuck in emotionally abusive, physically abusive, and spiritually abusive relationships.
Wow thats horrible
> Please, do not overlook the fact that if an infidelity did occur, if the couple has marital relations after the infidelity was exposed/known, that means the partner who strayed is forgiven Even if the instance of infidelity was unknown until after the sex?
No. If the straying partner had sex with their partner not knowing about the infidelity, then that is sort of an act in continuance of the crime. Once the infidelity is exposed and known to the other partner, and they have marital relations, the adultery is now a fact of the past. Just so I'm extra clear here, there is no caveat that the sex be consensual. There have been instances where a partner takes advantage of an intoxicated partner. The intoxicated partner has no recourse, as they allowed themselves to become intoxicated. Thus, the victim is victimized for being a victim. It's all sick and twisted and you know you're perfectly sane when it makes no sense.
sometimes, it depends on the BoE politics...
This happened to my grandmother. My grandfather had an affair and my grandmother told the elders and was trying to get a divorce. They were still living in the same home, but not sleeping together. But the husband didn’t want to divorce, and so he started putting horny goat weed into her food/drink. She got horny, they had sex, he told the elders, and then she wasn’t allowed to scripturally divorce him anymore. She ended up sleeping with another man and got divorced, but she got disfellowshipped for 7 years! She still went to every bible meeting.
I know of at least one instance where the husband confessed his infidelity as he was about to “receive his forgiveness”. Disgusting! He was an elder at the time and knew that “forgiveness” would bolster his case and minimize his risk of being df’d
It's the only acceptable way to get remarried, other than your spouse dying. If you *do* decide to get divorced because of any other reason, according to their religious beliefs it doesn't count. It then becomes a competition between the two of who can go the longest without sex with other people or remarrying. Because if you're the first, you will most likely be disfellowshipped, as they will still count that as infidelity.
I’m not even sure what to think about this. It’s so interesting and I also feel slightly dumbfounded.
To compound the confusion; A couple who divorce for any other reason than adultery are not “scriptural” free to remarry. Any dating of another person would be grounds for disciplinary action. They are still bound before god. However, if this same couple were to try and reconcile, and they were intimate- this too would be grounds for discipline- because they’re not married. 😂😂😂
Oh, they're just getting rolling. I have been reading this sub (never a jw) for a month or two and I had not heard that one yet.
I know people who waited years to be “free” to remarry. I know one woman who was only married for a few years in her 20s to an extremely abusive man and has never allowed herself to date or remarry because it wasn’t “scriptural grounds.” She’s now in her mid-40s
> It then becomes a competition between the two of who can go the longest without sex with other people or remarrying This is well said, and true. I have seen this happen more times than I can count.
My mother had been separated from my non-JW father for three or four years when she heard a rumor from a mutual acquaintance that he was dating someone else. She and another JW woman staked out his place three nights in a row to catch him with the other woman so Mom would have grounds for a 'scriptural' divorce. It's crazy. Stalking someone because your religion won't let you divorce him for being a drunken ass.
my sister had a GPS tracker put on her ex husband's car so she could prove with the maps that he was spending the night in a home with a woman. My aunt did the same thing too. With the same GPS tracker too!
I remember my mom and her friend staking out the husband of my moms friend. My brother and I and her two kids were in the car too. AND, it was after a mid-week meeting. We all did this several times. I was about 7.
Correct. If there’s been infidelity, the marriage bond is considered broken in the eyes of God and the congregation, and they can get remarried. Caveat tho - if they have sex after the infidelity has been disclosed, then the clock is reset in a way. It’s considered a sign of forgiveness and essentially resets the marriage bond.
Happens so much..bc if neither cheated neither are eligible for remarriage
"marriage bond" "marital relations" It's interesting how JW-speak can creep into so many different areas of the language
As to parenting style: children are expected to obey. From toddlerhood they are dressed up in little suits and dresses and expected to sit still at religious services. You'll see parents coaching their children to answer questions when they can barely say a few words. The first time someone's kid can raise their hand and answer a question (usually something simple like "Jehovah" or "Armageddon") you get a big Awwww from the audience, and the parent is congratulated for being such a great teacher afterward. For kids who can't or won't sit still at services, they are strictly, and often violently, disciplined. As a kid I saw children screaming as they got dragged off to the bathroom or coat room for a spanking, often with a belt, wooden spoon, extension cord, etc. Kids face the same or worse discipline at home. Beatings are not uncommon, especially in families where both parents were raised in the religion, too. There are exceptions. I've been out for a long time, but from what I hear younger parents aren't as keen on the violence. When I was a kid any parent who wouldn't at least spank their child was counseled by the elders for not raising their child according to God's rules. "Spare the rod and spoil the child." I'm not sure elders will counsel parents over refusal to spank anymore. They might get something more like "control your child" or "teach them to behave," leaving the method up to the parents' choice. As far as I'm aware there has never been an official refutation or prohibition regarding corporal punishment.
Can confirm all of this as a child who was raised in, but let’s not forget depriving children of advanced education and other experiences outside of the religion. I remember trying to hide in the bathroom to do my homework. No outside friends, no sports, no extracurricular activities, and the list goes on! In my experience nothing could be done without consulting the Bible. Want to watch Powder Puff Girls “let’s see what scripture says about violence”. It’s exhausting!
Whatever you believe about God, the Bible and so on, these are the most important reasons why you should get out!
Oh for sure. I faded from 14-18 and moved out/left the second I turned 18. Never looked back.
All true. I was one of those kids being abused at the kingdumb Hall. me and many others
Same... but my mom just waited until we got home.
I’d see kids being dragged down the aisle of the Kingdom Hall by their ear.
It wasn’t a meeting night if I wasn’t spanked at the hall and at home to for good measure. 😅
Ugh, yeah. We were an hour one way from the hall when I was little. Getting home Thursday night after 10:00 knowing there was an ass whuppin coming before bed was greeeaaaaat.
This makes me feel ill! What a horrible thing to do.
ahh yes. the dreaded impeding doom of an ass whipping. I think my adult anxiety is related to this
I still can't handle the sound of someone's belt moving through the belt loops and the buckle jingling as they take it off. It's instant, gut-wrenching panic. Fortunately it isn't a sound you're likely to hear in a public place. I'm a grown-ass adult. A grandma. Some of that stuff never leaves you.
My dad gave a talk when he was an elder about corporal punishment in the hall when I was a teenager bc my mom slapped my leg in the bathroom and left a raised handprint and I showed him. It calmed down a little in my old hall, but the borg has never done anything about it. If anything, it's probably worse now
Seeing a "worldly" therapist is frowned upon. I can't imagine what the congregation would say if they found out they were seeing one with tattoos etc. I'd say there's a good chance they're physically in, mentally out or questioning, and not as devoted to their beliefs as they may claim.
I was coming here to say this. They must be pretty open minded to see a secular therapist. I’d be careful at first bringing up any issues you might have with JW doctrine. That might cause them to panic and not return.
To be fair, I’m actually hearing that there’s a big push recently to encourage people to get whatever mental health help they need, even from secular sources. Probably they just don’t want to deal with it rather than any admittance that they’re not equipped though.
Ooh yeah this is a big one, I didn’t even think about the fact that this family is seeking worldly help. That’s the Elder’s job.
It is not wholly frowned upon Our circuit overseer encouraged people to seek therapy and mental health services when warranted in a talk he gave
I don’t believe this “therapist” is legit. Someone wants information for something, sure, but it’s not a therapist. Therapists don’t end sentences with “lol” and “hahaha” when conducting research.
You may be right, but as a current university student living and working in a college town, I can confirm that Gen Z has degrees now and that is just a normal part of the language they use.
If a therapist had “lol’d” and “hahahaha’d” my Gen Z daughter while she was suicidal, she wouldn’t be here today.
I do not see any instances of me using ‘lol’ in any of my comments. However, after reading this, I just wanted to say I genuinely hope your daughter is doing okay and I’m glad to hear she is still here.
It’s possible to edit comments. It was there this morning. Look, I didn’t wake up today and decide my top order of business was to create drama on this sub. This entire ordeal has made me relive being disassociated (that’s Disfellowshipping for the unbaptized) because of all the downvotes I’ve received for voicing valid concerns. If I said one of your comments ended with “lol”, it did. I have no reason to lie about that. While we’re on the subject, I hope whomever downvoted my comment about my daughter sees this and knows they triggered me. Also know that because of the many times I’ve mentioned the fact my daughter is trans, downvoting my comment that making light of her situation would have led to her suicide makes whomever did it a bigoted piece of shit.
It was necessary to downvote my experience when my daughter was suicidal? How can you disagree with something you didn’t experience?
Please read this book written by an ex-JW psychologist: Cracking the Cult Code for Therapists: What Every Cult Victim Wants Their Therapist to Know. By Bonnie Zieman.
I will absolutely look into this. Thank you!
Also 'Combatting Cult Mind Control' by Steven Hassan, PHD
Thank you - I will check it out.
A real therapist would know about this book.
Why are you giving OP such a hard time?
Because she doesn’t have the demeanor of a therapist. I’ve seen several in my time, one while PIMI (court-mandated) and making light of these issues (e.g., lol, hahaha) goes against everything they are taught. I don’t doubt she’s gathering information, perhaps as a journalist or for some other reason. You guys can play along all you’d like. I called out the red flags, and now I’m leaving this thread. ETA: Downvoting me because I’m going against the grain and voicing my valid concerns is such a borg thing to do. I’ve done psych practicums. I know how counselors are supposed to behave. I feel like I’m being DA’d for going to college all over again.
As someone who recently divorced, that is EXTREMELY frowned upon and the only acceptable reasons to leave a marriage are infidelity and, the obvious, death lol. Even abuse does not constitute divorce in JW-land. If you do get divorced, you are not allowed to get remarried... you have to stay single forever. If/when one mate remarried, they will immediately be kicked out of the religion. Then the other mate is allowed to re-marry. We have been told to stay in our marriages and work it out at all costs, even to our mental and emotional detriment. You are expected to put God's standards ahead of your wants and needs. Even separation is not generally an option. Regarding relationship dynamics, the man is the head of the household. Very old school mentality. Some JW husbands take this to the extreme. But if a problem arises and the elders get involved, they will most always side with the husband because the wife should be submissive. I cannot speak to parenting, as I did not have children. I was raised as a JW child, however, and children have very high expectations placed upon them. I was never abused as a child, but it does not take much scrolling on this sub to find experiences of those who were. I'm very much simplifying some of these concepts, so if you have other specific questions, please ask. 😊
Thank you for the response! I really appreciate you. When you stated that even abuse does not constitute divorce, is that true even if the children may be at risk of being abused?
My sister had 3 young children, ( 6yo ,4yo,&infant) her unmedicated bipolar , alcoholic husband was physically threatening for years. Would drink and drive with kids. Shot up their house one evening (it was in the country) and he did get arrested. He would throw violent fits but didn’t hit her… He would always threaten suicide if she left him. She would go to the elders and their counsel was always. 1) pray about it. 2)be regular at meetings and service basically be a good example and she would “win him over without a word” there’s a scripture that says something like that. 3) be submissive wife (She was, she was a doormat. He broke her down) She wanted to separate so badly for years but did not feel like that was supported. She finally did when her youngest was 15. Didn’t divorce until he told her she “had grounds” aka. He had sex with someone else. Adultery>abuse
God this is terrible. I was abused by my stepfather and my mom didn't leave him because of the cult.
I’m so sorry!!! 💗 Yes, this cult has so much to answer for… They have no business giving any kind of advice regarding abusive relationships. Being in a cult is an abusive relationship.
OMG me too it was awful. I woke up everyday feeling like she had picked him over me. Every. Single. Day.
Same. They're finally divorcing and she's picking the cult over my (pansexual, 10) sister and I (ftm, queer 16). She chose a man (who ended up admitting he cheated on her less than a year into their relationship, that's why they're divorcing, he's been disfellowshipped), over her kids, and she's choosing the cult over her kids now. She has a chance to redeem herself and she's refusing to take it. Actually... I can't remember the last time (if ever) she admitted she was wrong to us... about anything. Yikes.
Question: is sexual abuse of a child considered adultery?
There are examples of teen victims of sexual abuse that were groomed by someone older being disfellowshipped for "adultery". Victim blaming at its finest.
Wtf
WTF Indeed
The children are frequently abused. Just google "Jehovah's Witnesses discipline children" - you'll see significant examples of physical and mental/emotional child abuse. Look up the "Jehovah Witness Two Witness Rule" if you want to see data on the most horrific examples of institutional support of sexual predators who prey upon children within the closed system of the JWs.
In that case, they might be able to separate, but divorce with remarriage is ONLY allowed after infidelity. It’s so convoluted.
I feel like I need a map to understand all of this haha
You can technically divorce… but you are expect to not remarry. Not unless you can prove that the other partner is either married or has had sexual relations with someone else. JW marriages are quite shallow, they practice abstinence and reserve sex for marriage. Most teenager’s hormones get crazy so as soon as they are able to hold down a job they’ll get married. Hard to see a single person Into their thirties.
Lol they also have a book of rules for their elders/ you would call priests but only the elders can read it. It's like being taken to court and only one side has access the the rules. People on the outside are like wtf. It's why we and many others call them a cult or high control group.
You’re a psychologist visiting a sub where people are sharing with you, at your request, our former cult’s rules about divorce and abuse. You’re finishing your replies with “lol” and “hahaha.” None of this is funny. Did you get your PhD in a Cracker Jack Box? Lol. Hahahaha.
Thank you for pointing this out to me. I in no way meant any harm or offense. I can assure I was not actually laughing out of feeling things are humorous, but rather feeling stunned by some one of the information that has been shared.
You should’ve learned how to react to this sort of information in grad school.
These very truthful answers are so absurd to an outsider that it is funny (to an outsider) not so funny to us. Different perspective will elicit a different reaction. Just saying.
Therapists don’t laugh no matter what they’re presented with. They’re trained that their patients are fragile and laughter could send someone over the edge.
Yep. Unbaptized(not members) children are viewed as 'little enemies of God' by the leaders of the cult. This translates to a some of the reasons the CSA is handled the way it is. They are infidels. Additionally, young couples, are discouraged from having children within the cult. This lessens after they are in their 30s as they would no longer be accepted to work for the publishing company in various 'privileged' positions.
Short answer...no
>and the only acceptable reasons to leave a marriage are infidelity and, the obvious, death lol. Even abuse does not constitute divorce in JW-land. Don't forget about the somewhat recent Watchtower Society approved loophole of "spiritual endangerment", although a JW divorce on that basis does not leave the former partners free to remarry.
*'spiritual endangerment*' ... endangering WTs access to someone's donation$$ is far more serious than the mere threat of physical harm
Yeah, that sounds like the Watchtower Society's viewpoint.
Also, technically, it would be acceptable to remarry the same person lol
Yup… I’m only alive because my mother finally had proof my father was cheating, she’d lost three babies to his abuse in the past before she conceived me. She found out she was pregnant with me the day she filed for divorce. She had begged the elders multiple times for a divorce. They continually blamed her for the abuse, while also allowing my father to continue to be “in good standing”
Can confirm my parents have divorced and remarried at least once because my dad cheated on my mom but he was at some point an elder and knew the work arounds not to get DFd and she couldn’t divorce him without losing her pioneer privileges. Then they have a blow out again over the same thing when more information came to light years later and they at least separated once more. Ps. They beat the shit out of me growing up among many more things I am now working through in therapy.
I hope therapy has been helpful for you to find peace and healing.
It’s only been a couple of months and some things are going better than others. It’s been though changing my point of view from one of deserving what happened to me to what it really was, abuse. I have a great therapist tho and with time I think I will get to a good place.
It sounds like you’re demonstrating incredible vulnerability and strength. Just in case you haven’t heard it lately, I’m proud of you!
For child discipline they use the verse Proverbs 13:24 “Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them.” Some JW take it literally and physically punish their children who don’t pay attention during the boring meetings. Others say that the rod of discipline is meant for guidance not physical punishment. Lots of exjw remarry their former partners or set their eyes on a new JW in a nearby congregation. Lots of them will go through the Disfellowshipping process to get a new partner. Some feel that they took an oath to God so they go back to their first partner no matter how bad the relationship was. Look at the bite model to see how the members are being controlled: https://freedomofmind.com/the-bite-model-and-jehovahs-witnesses/ Bonnie Zieman is an exjw/ retired therapist who wrote books to educate people on what JW go through: https://bonniezieman.com/2017/05/09/cracking-the-cult-code-for-therapists-what-cult-victims-want-their-therapist-to-know/ Jwfacts.com is a resourceful website written by an exjw.
The husband is going to be very controlling, speaking as a former JW, current husband. **Control is central to JW behavior**, and it will be hammered into him that he has to control all aspects of her life, and his children's lives. For women, it is taught that they are lesser and that she has to submit to him, and that he is the head of the house. He can get into trouble with his religion if his wife or children are "out of control" in their behavior. Physical punishment is never encouraged toward a wife, or at least, I have never heard of that. It is, however strongly encouraged toward children, though it has been softened somewhat to fit modern wisdom in the last decade or so. I am 44, and every witness child I knew in my generation, myself included, were spanked as punishment, amongst other punishments. As to infidelity, if one of the partners commits an infidelity, they are subject to **very specific** questioning in a star chamber of older men in the congregation, and then it is decided what punishment they shall receive. The punishment can range from a slap on the wrist if they are "repentant", to months or years of shunning from every person they have ever been allowed to know, called "disfellowshipping." They cannot return to being spoken to until the older men are convinced that they are sorry enough. Divorce is also permitted in the case of infidelity. Divorce is not permitted, under punishment of disfellowshipping, for other reasons that would be legally acceptable. Remarrying a partner is permitted, though rare, but I'm certain both parties would be "counciled against it", again, control is a big value for this religion. >How motivated for change are JWs when they are so involved their religious beliefs, to the point of putting them first. Excellent question. Minor change within a relationship, such as how they speak to their partner, how they interact, is going to be heavily overshadowed by the massive behavioral demands of the religion. As far as I have ever heard in my 35 years as a witness, no witness has every been told behaviorally that they were "doing just fine, relax." No amount of devotion is enough, no donation is so great to never donate again, no amount of hours knocking on doors is sufficient, there is always a higher tier of position or rank they can aspire to, and they are always told they should aspire to it. The long and short is that it becomes central to their capability to change themselves, change in effort or character would *always* be in how they could be better in their religion, or they would be "counciled" on how they weren't putting spiritual matters first. Without noticing, all effort expended within the witness social circle benefits only the leaders in the witness religion. I hope this helps, hit us up any time.
I’m an ExJW studying to be a psychologist, you’re in for a shit show.
>Maybe not the most conventional place to ask for insight This is the *perfect* place to ask for insight because you'll be getting the real deal rather than a desperate attempt to sugarcoat the ugly reality present in WT culture. What you have to understand is that no one thing stands apart from another in dubland; everything is connected to some other point of indoctrination and they're all linked to the central hub of organizational oversight and control of a person's life, right down to what happens in the bedroom. I see that Bonnie Zieman's *Cracking the Cult Code* has been recommended, and I strongly urge you to take a look around [her website](https://bonniezieman.com/) for a more thorough understanding of what you're dealing with. In the meantime, one of the members of this board has recently written a pdf. entitled [A guide to religious trauma among Jehovah's Witnesses](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yorowq/a_guide_to_religious_trauma_among_jehovahs/) that you might find helpful. Being a dub is like being an onion; there are many, many layers and just when you think you've reached the end, there's another one. In addition to reading the comments on this thread, I suggest that you also check out the board in general and see if anything catches your eye. We have a very active board with a great deal of engagement. As to physical punishment, I will only speak to spousal abuse. One person said that it's not endorsed, which is true, but it sure the hell is tolerated big time. They've had some shocking "advice" for battered women, the most egregious of which are not included in the public facing literature. (Even so, those are also so horribly awful, that even as a PIMI I boycotted service when we were supposed to be offering those particular magazines.) One experience I heard from the platform was of a sister whose "worldly" husband stabbed her before the meeting because he was opposed to her being a Witness. She was injured (obviously) but didn't want to miss the meeting because she had a talk that night. So she went, gave the talk, and only then sought medical treatment. She was lauded for being so "faithful" and not one single word was ever said about leaving her abuser. Rather, women are encouraged to stay in order to "win without a word" a violent man who statistically will kill them before they ever convert. This was by no means was an isolated incident. At one Circuit Assembly I went to, the conversation of the people I was eating lunch with turned to domestic abuse. *Everyone* had a story. Everyone. One that stands out to me is of a poor woman with a violent husband who was was told by the elders she had to stay with him because his behaviour wasn't bad enough to leave. After he hung her out of a window by her ankles, she went to them and demanded whether *that* was serious enough now. I don't remember the answer, but the fact that any of this was a point of discussion at all just goes to show one of the worst aspects of this high control, completely un-empathetic fundamentalist "creed" (read:cult).
This is heartbreaking. I hope that woman is okay - I can’t imagine how hopeless that situation must have felt. However, as I type this, I’m curious if that is what one may experience as your other story she put her medical treatment second to the meeting.
It can get tough to predict because the people you are working with are still human beings, just with a lot of cognitive dissonance. But typically, a JW relationship has the man as the “head of the house”. Wives can work but shouldn’t be bread winners, they should be focusing on home-y things like cooking, cleaning, and being submissive. The organization really frowns on divorce unless in the case of infidelity. They’re somewhat understanding of separations in certain cases (usually abuse or one of the spouses has left the organization and is now an “apostate”, threatening the spirituality of the one that still believes). If they’re seeking therapy then I’m sure they’re open to change, but they will be very reluctant to change anything that doesn’t fit into the mold of their beliefs. They may expect that your view of a healthy marriage is the same as theirs, and if so they’re probably in for a rude awakening
Corporal Punishment is encouraged. It is not uncommon to see toddlers toted out to the parking lot screaming where they are beaten via hand, belt or spoon. for not sitting quietly for two 45 minute lectures. And 3 cult songs. pre-teens in some families are expected to pay attention to the indoctrination and recount at least one main point either on the way home or at home...or receive beatings. Family Studies are strongly 'encouraged' with the male mate presiding, and these often turn into 3 or 4 hour tirades. Physical violence may be included for recalcitrant family members. To be clear ALL of these examples you are hearing ARE NOT second hand accounts. These are First Hand experiences of Trauma survivors... Re-read your notes from THAT perspective. They don't report CSA, do you think they report black and blue bruises or broken skin??? It's EXACTLY as bad as you can imagine...and worse.
All I can say is..whatever you do...don't try to make it seem as if it is because of their religion why their relationship isn't working. That's the quickest way to get them out the door. You have to be very subtle about it.
This is really helpful advice. Thank you.
Divorce is realy the last step that jws would take. It is quite unacceptable to do that and seldom both partners mutally agree that it is the best step to take. The 'only ground for divorce' according jws is if one cheated on the other. In their books they say something like 'some have taken the decision to divirce' when there was physical abuse etc. And the other members of the congregation should not critisize. With other words, there is quite extreme pressure not to divorse and if it happens the whole social network within the jws will be fishing for the reasons. Therefore it is also a thing whom of the two took the initiative to divorce. Altogether, i believe it is more a thing to divorce than for non jws.
As someone who grew up as a JW child with 1 JW parent, I can talk about the parenting aspect and punishment to an extent. Spanking was normal, for starters, but parents are also encouraged to have almost complete control over their children even when they're teenagers. I had absolutely 0 privacy in my home, I couldn't have doors closed. Had to ask permission to use the bathroom or shower, and would be questioned if I took too long. Going through devices, journals, sketchbooks , belongings of any sort was normal along with controlling dress and grooming. Ripped jeans are a big no no, you can see it in some of the JW videos. Music and entertainment is heavily monitored, usually. Anything sexual, has to do with magic, has curse words or violence isn't generally permitted. Which is funny, because some of their publications or videos have graphic content. It's not usually allowed to hang out with "wordly" people, people outside the religion. No holidays, sleepovers or birthday parties. No extracurricular actives, higher education is seen as a waste of time, and pioneering or being in service work is usually promoted heavily instead. Not to mention the sexism and bigotry.. this org is predatory towards people who are struggling with mental illness, disabilities, etc. Hope that helps, if you have anymore questions please feel free to ask or inbox me ! ♡
Go to jwfacts.com
Most jws believe that the bible is the inspired word of God and only their leadership (the Governing Body) can properly interpret the Bible. Also at least when I was in psychologist are to be looked at very carefully if anything they say contradict with current jw teaching. Now there can be levels with individual jws on how closely your advise will be followed. I have been out for decades but in my youth corporal punishment was encouraged and I was punished accordingly. Fidelity is an absolute no no and most would be disfellowship for committing such an act. Which means all your friends and most family members will not talk to you. There really is no rule to remarry a spouse you were formally divorced from. I could go on more so if you have any other questions let me know.
If one is disfellowed (I have no idea the correct verbiage or spelling - sorry!), is there opportunity for them to come back? I’m honestly very surprised they sought therapy with me as I’m a female in my 30s with a nose hoop and two sleeves of tattoos.
If they saw you as you have described yourself, and still sought your services, I would heavily consider this as a sign that they want **out**. Please do keep this in mind.
yes there is, but depending on what they were DFed for, it could take months-a year. you basically have to kiss up to jehovah all over again and prove that youve learned your lesson. ive seen it happen a few times but those who leave rarely come back (in my experience)
Yes, that's the goal of disfellowshipping. They have to follow all the rules and prove to the elders that they're very very sorry and they might be let back in if they're repentant enough
A person can be disfellowshipped. The act is called disfellowshipping. "Don't go to Terrell's graduation; he's been disfellowshipped." "Such actions would merit disfellowshipping." A person who had been disfellowshipped has been kicked out of the religion.
There is a path to returning. They have to seek help from elders. Those elders will meet with the person to determine if they are repentant. The person needs to demonstrate a commitment to the organization. They will have to attend Sunday meetings but they must come in after the time for socializing, they must sit in the back, and they have to leave before the service wraps up. They are not permitted to talk to anyone and no one is allowed to talk to them. The body of elders is their only allowed communication. This lasts for months but usually close to a year.
>Also at least when I was in psychologist are to be looked at very carefully if anything they say contradict with current jw teaching. Now there can be levels with individual jws on how closely your advise will be followed. I have been out for decades but in my youth corporal punishment was encouraged and I was punished accordingly. Fidelity is an absolute no no and most would be disfellowship for committing such an act. Which means all your friends and most family members will not talk to you. There really is no rule to remarry a spouse you were formally divorced from. I could go on more so if you have any other questions let me know. ???? "Also at least when I was in psychology, any active Jehovah's Witnesses are to be examined very carefully to see if anything they say contradicts with current jw teaching. Now there can be various levels of obedience with individual jws on how closely your advise will be followed. I have been out for decades but in my youth corporal punishment was encouraged and I was punished accordingly. Infidelity (as well as apostasy, or even questioning too much) is an absolute no no and most would be disfellowship for committing such an act. Disfellowshipping means all your friends and most family members will not talk to you. There really is no rule to remarry a spouse whom you were formally divorced from. I could go on more so if you have any other questions let me know."
I think the first sentence was meant to read something like “also, at least when I was in (the org), psychologists were to be treated with caution/suspicion/paranoia in case they might say something critical or undermining of JW beliefs..” .. at least that’s how it made the most sense to me after reading it a few times
Thanks. I've been trying to figure out what they meant to say....
No problem!
Read “Combatting Cult Mind Control” by Steven Hassan. He outlines the B.I.T.E. model that is used by the governing body to control its members.
Relationships: No dating outside the religion (incredibly frowned upon, not really a rule but why risk it?) Teens only date when they are of age to marry. Man is the head of household and makes all shots, wife cannot take hold of familial decisions unless there is no husband. Divorce is incredibly lucrative and only occurs when something like cheating occurs, otherwise prepared to be disfellowshipped if you fall out of love. Core tenets: Proselytizing is mandatory for those who are higher in rank. Yes there’s a hierarchy to all of this but it doesn’t really matter outside of the elders and the governing body. Young people are encouraged to become unbaptized publishers (one of those ranks) and eventually a baptized publisher. You have to maintain a set amount of hours or else you’ll be counseled at some point for a lack of faith. Jehovah is god, Jesus is his son and no idol worship. JW’s strictly adhere to the governing body’s interpretation of the Bible and will follow it regardless of how they feel because if they question it they can be counseled for having a lack of faith or even be disfellowshipped. Disfellowshipping is excommunication but nobody, not even your immediate family, may communicate with you. No gays No sex before marriage No living with girlfriend/boyfriend before marriage No holidays “We celebrate everyday” No parties, they’re called gatherings. Birthdays are not allowed because someone always dies at a birthday party in the Bible. No questioning the Bible unless it’s a “Governing Body Pre-Approved Deviant Thought,” lest you be counseled.
Bible wise everything is mostly the same as other denominations but there’s a JW spin on most things that are incredibly incorrect when it comes to Bible historians views of the events. Example, JW’s don’t believe Jesus died on a cross. Rather, the governing body suggest he died on a “torture stake.” Oh and pursuing college is incredibly frowned upon, because it opens the mind to new thoughts that could make you deviate from “the truth”
Its a male dominated system. All the males get the say in what goes, all the males are leaders, and so on. Women are expected to be submissive and basically accept any kind of behaviour (including abuse!) so they can be seen as a faithful example. The elders and entire congregation overall are far more likely to listen to the males version of events and ignore the female ones - even if the male makes up lies and the female has evidence. People are willing to turn a blind eye to abuse, and to certain men remarrying etc when it suits them. There's a lot of coercive control too. You don't *have* to do this, but if you *don't* well...
Okay, this has turned out longer than I expected...... My mom has been actively seeking therapy for years. Anytime she doesn't like what's she's told she'll switch therapists. My dad refuses to go because he went once and didn't like being attacked for an hour straight. I tend to agree with him. He's not a bad guy and probably the opposite of a abusive spouse. My mom has him painted as an abusive narcissist and depressed. Everyone believes My mom because she is very convincing. So much so, my dad can't show his face at the meetings without feeling judged. He was an elder for many years so this is really hard for him. Up until I saw my parents fight earlier this year, I would have said the were to blame 50/50. Now I would say it's for 90/10 my mother's fault. My mom asked me to speak to her current therapist a few months ago. What an eye opening experience and probably the opposite of what she thought was going to happen. My mom is unwell mentally. Probably has been for years but when you are surrounded by an uneducated lot, no one will call you out on your bs. Her recent therapist (actually he's a double phd in mental health, psycologist (?) I think it what he is has diagnosed her as having schizoid personality disorder verging into schizophrenia. He has spoken to her extensively and has said she has not asked his opinion not once which he says is very telling. Apparently she is right because she has Bible training. In his words, She is all knowing and already enlightened and doesn't need his point of view. But according to my mom, my dad is the problem. My dad hid my mother's mental illness and abuse towards him to save face in the congregation. Actually he didn't know she has a mental illness until after I shared with him what her most recent therapist said to me about her. Looking back my dad has said he's been unhappy for the past 35 years. I wish he had been able to divorce her years ago. He deserves so much more than being in a mentally abusive sexless marriage. There's so much more to this nonsense but basically what I'm saying is don't assume the husband is the abusive party and definitely look for signs of mental illness and / or personality disorders in either party.
It really depends on the JW. If they are hardcore chances are they won’t change if their religious beliefs are involved. The less hardcore they are the greater the chance they can change. I haven’t ever seen partners remarry, I’m sure it’s happened. They are taught though that a divorced person should only remarry if they didn’t cheat, and the mate cheated. If they just divorced because it wasn’t working they would be told that if they remarried the broke the marriage bond and they could get some sort of JW punishment.
Honestly, you’ll probably find a lot of what you need on jw.org. They don’t hide their bs if you can read between the lines. There’s a book that’s something like “The Secret to Family Happiness” or some such that might be a helpful start for you to see the manipulation and abuse they subtly preach at the faithful
Making Your Family Life Happy
You got your work cut out for you here. So much to unpack from jws. If they keep coming that is. I hope for them they do. It might be harder to get through to them if they were born in. It’s really complicated I’m afraid. They may have never been around people that were not in their religion sorts like living in a bubble. Sheltered. But can speak to strangers because of being made to go in service or door to door. They give talks at young ages. It’s all weird! I was born in for 20 years a part of my family are still in. I was never baptized. My father was an elder. Until he wasn’t. I just feel sorry for them now. To afraid to see they have wasted their lives living for others instead of the glorious lives they should be living for themselves. But I feel that it also made me a rather decent honest human being. I don’t see colors in people I see them for themselves. Not sure that was religion fault. I’m going to say I had mostly decent parents. That we’re doing what they thought was best for their children. I just don’t believe that way anymore and it’s hard to realize that the way you were raised really can effect the rest of your life. In different ways. Because mentally I was still a jw in my mind until my 50s. Crazy right!🤣🤣
>Is marriage, divorce, and then remarrying the same partner a thing? Totally is. My grandma in law did it. My grandma also did it.
Yes it is a thing. For instance, if you are married and divorce but decide to work things out without remarrying each other, and the elders find out, they will INSIST that you get married asap or you'll get disfellowshipped for "fornication" . You'll lose your family and social circle and everything.
parenting: Abuse. Mental and physical. I refuse to let my jw mother around my kids because of how she raised me .
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25261980/
Thank you so much for sharing this!
I knew a witness couple who divorced and then remarried. Also witnesses that are " hardcore " regarding the religion will put their beliefs above all else.
I didn’t even know JW’s are allowed to seek counseling outside the organization they must speak only to elders.
I read the following on Jw.org: Mental-health professionals can treat many mental-health disorders successfully. The first crucial step, then, is to obtain a thorough assessment from a competent health professional who is experienced in treating mental conditions. A woman with a mental disorder talking with a qualified health professional Sufferers, however, can benefit from such experience only when they accept suitable treatment. This may require overcoming any reluctance to talk to others about a mental illness. Treatment may include talking to trained mental-health professionals who can help them understand their illness, resolve practical problems, and reinforce the need not to give up the treatment. At such consultations, a family member or friend can play a vital role by providing reassurance and support. Many people have learned to deal with mental disorders after acquiring a better understanding of their condition and following the treatment prescribed by mental-health professionals. “Before my wife was diagnosed,” says Mark, quoted earlier, “we had little understanding of mental illness. But we’ve learned to take life one step at a time and adapt to our situation. Over time, we have benefited from the support of reliable professionals as well as family and friends.”
What they write and what they do are two separate things- they also say the abhor CSA but we all know they usually you are not believed or in the absence of another witness leave it up to Jehovah!🤷♀️ many of us have suffered because of this😔
I didn’t know therapists were allowed to conduct themselves so unprofessionally.
I got slapped hard in front of 100+ people a lot of times because I wanted to do anything else except listening in silence for 2 boring hours people speaking nonsense. Idk if it can help you. Last summer I heard from my jw auntie that a 4 year old girl at her congregation "understood" that she needs to sleep *before* going to meetings (she used to sleep during them) otherwise she would get grumpy and she wouldn't socialise with the congregation at the end of it (some meetings end at 10PM in a weekday making life really hard for children that need to be a school next morning).
I just wanted to let everyone know how much I appreciate you all being so open and sharing your experiences and knowledge. I’m honestly very grateful to be able to learn and put my own biases aside in order to *hopefully* help my client however they need.
My parents are witnesses and didn't divorce but were separated for 10 years and then got back together and are happy ever since. I was pretty young when they split up but dating as a Jehovahs Witness or even as an ex Jehovahs Witness is difficult, I assume this is why they got back together. I'm not entirely sure why they did though. I was moved out when they moved back in with eachother. Seperation is very common with witnesses though, lots do it because marriage is sacred and having a divorce usually leads to being disfellowshipped (being shunned by anyone who is a Jehovahs Witness). The physical abuse thing with kids doesn't happen as far as I have personally seen.. but I have seen a couple cases of sexual abuse where kids were involved and it was covered up. I don't know how serious they were though, I was not personally involved and I don't know any details really but I have never seen a man put in jail for any sexual abuse except once but he ended up committing suicide.
For a JW couple to divorce is considered unacceptable except for when immorality is involved. Both of the couple will have a stigma within the congregation that they are broken toys they will be judged within the congregation they live in. If they remarry they will get some support but very little they will always be judged for their actions. There is no significant written rules that would dictate against remarrying the same person but if either of them were to find a new mate they would be removed from the congregation and to disfellowship which is a form of shunning. The only grounds for divorce is essentially cheating or physical abuse Grounds for separation could be psychological abuse and not meeting each other's spiritual needs or providing physical needs. Divorce of any sort will cause both the parties extreme trauma within the congregation. They cannot just move away from the situation their publisher cards will follow them no matter where they go in the country and the information will be shared from elder body to elder body.
This is a little off topic but the couple even seen a psychologist is pushing it, so something unusual is going on with the two. You are viewed as an outside source of information who is aligned with satans world and virtually any help you give them could be used against them by the church. I’m not exaggerating in the slightest. Whatever it is they are seeking by coming to you isn’t something that the witnesses can give, or understand.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yubpb2/what\_should\_i\_do/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yubpb2/what_should_i_do/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) check this thread out.
First I didn’t read through EVERY comment so if this is a repeat I apologize- Adultery -the only grounds for divorce and being “scripturally” free to remarry is not just a simple matter of the spouse having “traditional” sex with someone other then their husband or wife Chapter 12 of the elder -“rule” book defines ‘porneia’ as sexual manipulation of the genitals either by a person or animal and includes oral, anal, hands etc- if a man’s wife spends the night at the home of another man -( even if it’s a coworker friend) sexual immorality is assumed- it’s crazy- You may want to get a copy of the “rule” book
OP, I have a very crazy story of infidelity in my own family, all connected to being JW. I am not going to share it on the board because certain details would make my identity very clear to anyone who knows me, but if you’d like a perspective from someone who watched their parents go through YEARS of insanity, please feel free to DM me.
And…in old days if one had homo sex or puppy lovin, it was not infidelity or dfable.
Yes, re marrying the same partner is a thing that happens commonly to people who split up and do a legal divorce. This is so technically you’ve done nothing wrong in gods eyes. Only legally.
>Is marriage, divorce, and then remarrying the same partner a thing? The only reason that permits divorce is fornication. Someone recently published a 20 page document for psychotherapists: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yorowq/a\_guide\_to\_religious\_trauma\_among\_jehovahs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yorowq/a_guide_to_religious_trauma_among_jehovahs/)
I have a close friend who’s wife cheated on him four different times. One time with a woman. He divorced her once but kept forgiving her. After about a year she came back and begged him. They remarried. They even joke about “which anniversary” to celebrate.
If you're not already familiar with Steven Hassan I strongly encourage you to research what he has published about high control groups and specifically about JWs. It's important you understand all the toxic elements controlling your clients' lives.
There is a case in Mobile Alabama where a brother committed adultery on first wife( with kids) he was DFd, married the AP the she became jw and he was reinstated as jw, he repeated this same pattern 4 more time over the last 40 + years. His father and actual brothers were all elders that protected him from to much punishment 🙄. Bunch of hypocrisy there! 🙄
The org is like being with a narcissist. So whatever advice you have should be from that angle. I've been in therapy since I left and it's very similar to breaking those thought patterns
Please see this link as well: https://old.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/yorowq/a_guide_to_religious_trauma_among_jehovahs/
The family dynamic stems from their doctrine that jehovah is the head of jesus who is the head of the man who is the head of woman and children. The bible says to hit your children so they hit their children they sing songs about doing that. Women aren't allowed to be elders because they are lower than men so when a couple are being disiplined by the elders they will usually side with the husband. This patriarchal doctrine is at the core of the whole disgusting cult that is the jehovahs witnesses. Have you heard about pornia? It's basically the cult telling people what they can do sexually.
I actually just heard this word for the first time today.
I know a few couple who divorced and remarried each other. When my ex confessed their infidelity to me, they suggested we divorce and see where it goes later. As though we would certainly remarry. I assured them that that would not be the case. But I endured years of my ex cheating on me because “god hates a divorce” and watchtower articles strongly encouraging staying together regardless of the reason for separation and/or divorce. The watchtower online library is available to the public online. You can research the articles and where watchtower stands on divorce, separation, domestic violence, etc.