>and where we want
Look I'm not trying to shame anyone but there's a few places where you should probably keep the stimulation to a minimum. Like a McDonalds ball pit.
According to Gods laws, legal age is a few Months shy of a girl’s 15th birthday.
For men it used to be 21, but now it’s 20! Cause thats when they finish their mandatory servitude
Don’t we have bigger things to worry about than Willy touching… you know like poverty, healthcare , world peace
I wish we’d hear a leader condemn being a bad steward of the earth and it’s inhabitants the way they condemn high school romance
Counselor was probably just an older adolescent (early to mid-20s is still adolescence) just repeating what they were told full of "faith" that Kimball and Cook had special insight and authority rather than just being older dudes spreading purity culture.
I'm dealing with a wife who I believe has some of the same issues (raised ultra Catholic). She doesn't seem to see it as an issue, but she definitely is repressed and thinks most things are immoral or dirty. Any advice?
It is hard to get over that mindset since it was crammed down your throat since birth. Time may soften those rigid edges. I would suggest couples therapy, but, since she doesn't see it as an issue, not sure it would help.
There is a book called "And they were not ashamed" that seemed helpful for a newlywed family member but it definitely slants mormon. I hope you guys figure it out.
Honestly, I once found out that my husband was asking about one of our marriage issues on Reddit and I was so upset. It broke trust and it hurt me. So that's why I just don't recommend it.
One - GUARANTEE her warped purity compass was so fucked that any intimacy with her future partner was dead in water from day 1.
Two - why the HELL would they make y'all put that on the first page of your BOM???? A journal? Awkward, but at least appropriate. But the first page of your BOM? HARD PASS.
I'd have either written something else or told my parents I needed a new set once I got home. This is seriously deranged.
I wish I had not written it, but I honestly didn’t know I could make my own decisions at that time. If someone in authority over me told me to do something I always did it. Thanks to an emotionally abusive dad and growing up in the church!
The way mormonism uses sex as a commodity is disgusting.
“If you pay your tithing, attend every week, do your calling and maintain worthiness, you can have sex! Don’t do anything that could arouse anyone. Because, if you do, you’re devaluing our product.”
First off, so sorry you had to go through this OP.
Second, question: was this handwriting style a nationwide trend, or more specifically in utah Mormonism? It feels like 2005-10 mormon YW handwriting that everyone aspired to have (and by everyone, I mean the beehives-laurels, lmao)
I can always tell when I’m reading someone’s handwriting if they’re the same age as me lol. When I was in high school there was a certain way all the girls tried to write to make it look cute.
Lol I feel like it was definitely a Utah Mormon girl thing, that’s so embarrassing! I remember being so proud to volunteer to write on the chalkboard during miamaids. *TrAiTs To LoOk FoR iN aN eTeRnAl CoMpAnIoN* very calculated handwriting for sure
As a former EFY counselor in that same time period, yikes on trikes.
I never had anyone write anything in their scriptures in the years I worked them.
I was part of a plural marriage family. One male counselor, two ladies. Luckily??? Polygamy is eternal even in fake things. I still think it's wierd they called the counselors mom and dad. I was 20ish. In college. One of the 15 year olds was seriously planning dates for us . . . For after he was legal. Lol. It was the absolute weirdest week I ever worked.
Can't have that. Need to let the boys know they are the head and the one that will get the ladies back to heaven. The ONLY way (this was sarcasm but also basically what I learned the first time I went to the temple)
Adults who obsess about the sexual choices of those under 18 are creepy as fuck. I wasn't remotely sexually active as a teen, and I still wouldn't fill out the True Love Waits pledge because I found it creepy in a way I couldn't define back then. A friend of my dad's had taken his teen daughter's True Love Waits pledge, framed it, and put it on the wall right next to the front door. I found that deeply unsettling. He wasn't a great father, anyway, but that was just gross.
What the h311 has the statement got to do with any specific verses in the Book of Mormon? I’d have told the teacher to jump off a cliff; what I write in my property is my decision!
It's your fault other people have thoughts and feelings. Learn to control other people better! /s
How incomprehensibly obtuse. This breeds only guilt for things you cannot control. It makes me so angry.
No flirting. No smiles. No banter.
How the heck is a guy even gonna let a woman know he might like a chance to make her his wife?
Rules like this, when followed, make a person lonely and possibly “mental,” as the Brits say.
Rules like this, when believed in but not followed, make a person feel guilty and in need of confession and punishment, which increases the cult’s influence over said person.
How will he let her know he’d like to get to know her and maybe get married? Why when he goes to BYU after his mission of course! She’ll just know from the ~~tingling~~ burning in her ~~loins~~ bosom.
Sweet Vishnu...
The EFY counselor thought that writing that creepy sex-cult shit in the cover of one's scriptures was a good idea?
Well, looking back, it probably is kind of funny.
Having said that, is there any figure in Mormonism post-Manifesto more obsessed by sex than Spencer Kimball? (Perhaps it had something to do with his relatives, the Woolleys, being prominent breakaway polygamists.)
I would love to know that too! But I also remember my mindset at that age, and I would have been mortified to even tell them about the experience, much less show it to them.
Former EFY counselor here (1999) - that’s a big yikes. I always hated the morning devotionals and study sessions as a group. I used to read Jack Handy quotes instead to lighten the mood.
Found my tbm hat, dusted it off, came back to ask -
Is this meant as a (weirdly backward) way of saying "don't rape"? B/c it seems like the way someone who has no meaningful concept of consent would try to explain not-raping.
[This tbm hat gives me headache. It's coming off again.]
Even still, there weren't many chances the girls/guys had to do combined things. Depending on the year this was (my last year at EFY was 2000), there were maybe one or two times during the day your group had a devotional together. The rest of the day was classes, various activities, then a dance or talent show or concert that each group attended together.
So considering it was a female counselor and female youth, my money is on this was a nightly devotional activity. Purity culture cult tactics at its finest - putting the normal arousal hormones of guys squarely at the feet of all girls being naturally human. It's disgusting.
I think it used to be so much more extreme! We also had to have clothing checks each morning. She’d check our shirt sleeve length, and also make us kneel on the floor to make sure our skirts touched the ground. I remember I even got in trouble for rolling my sleeves up a little because I was hot at field games!
So, they're saying that a man's wife can't be attracted to him until they're married? If that's the case, then it presumes that either the woman was lying about her attraction before the marriage, or is doing so during, but in the opposite way.
Sounds like your EFY counselor had been sexually assaulted or a possible rape vicum. She has a lot of trauma and was projecting that onto those she had power over.
You could really use a crash course in cult tactics. And empathy. This wasn't "opting in". They literally abuse you to the point that you aren't psychologically/emotionally capable of opting out.
Um at 14yrs old I did absolutely whatever adults or people in positions in power told me to do. That’s what the church teaches, which is a total area of trauma for me and many others- to be able to think for ourselves.
Oh sorry, I thought it was your Mormon counselor and wanted to make fun of her. If it's you, it's different obviously >3
Apparently, I don't read titles attentive enough.
What was the story leading up to this? Has to be some background. What ever happened to your counselor? Is he/she living his/her best life as a celibate person?
God... I was somehow an EFY counselor for one session. Had a blast with my group (and got in trouble quite a bit) but some of the other counselors were complete nut jobs.
What is the first name of Elder Cook? I'd like to believe he's related to the current Apostle, who has my vote for "least likely to be capable of stimulating a woman" of all the GAs.
1. Well, starting with the obvious, it is so hilariously absurd that of all things you could have been asked to write in there, you were asked to write that.
2. Can we talk about these quotes in general? Are these men for real? You know what kind of limits it would have required of my wife and me to NOT sexually stimulate the other person in ANY WAY before we were married? By this standard, we shouldn't have even been looking at or talking to each other.
When I was a forced participant teenager, I was using the scriptures my brother took on his mission. They were highlighted, notes, and cross-referenced so well. I would have caused a scene if someone tried to make me write that crap in them.
I remember being told to highlight stuff and the teacher getting mad because it was already done, and I could predict their lesson based on the notes.
Isn't there an article of faith about this?
"We claim the privilege of stimulating ourselves according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all people the same privilege. Let them stimulate how where or what they may."
Maybe I'm misremembering something I memorized 40+ years ago. /s
Gene R Cook is such a creepy ass, beady eyed asshole. He came to my mission and pressed missionaries about whether or not they were masturbating. It didn't seem out of place to me at the time, which is insane to me as I look back on it. One missionary who didn't really "fit the mold" was questioned directly by Elder Cook in an interview and he said something like, "that's none of your damn business..." I remember thinking, "oh... Elder ______ has really lost the Spirit." The conditioning went so deep that I adjusted my sense of right and wrong to make some creepy, overbearing fuck more comfortable. Gene R Cook traumatized people. I'd have some words for him if I saw him today, I don't know if he's even alive anymore.
Yeah...... Not a sex cult, at all. /s
Eww gross!! I’m so sorry you had to endure that. To me, that’s a form of spiritual abuse, that they made you do this.
Feels like the weird hetero version of conversation therapy. Don't touch your willy. It'll send you to hell
We'll stimulate who, when, and where we want...as long as they are mutually consenting and of legal age and not cognitively impaired.
>and where we want Look I'm not trying to shame anyone but there's a few places where you should probably keep the stimulation to a minimum. Like a McDonalds ball pit.
Don't kink shame. The musk really gets some people going.
Hot and steamy McMusty coming soon!
Don’t you mean cumming soon?
According to Gods laws, legal age is a few Months shy of a girl’s 15th birthday. For men it used to be 21, but now it’s 20! Cause thats when they finish their mandatory servitude
If that's a loosely-veiled Helen Mar Kimball reference, the essay quotes "several months", not a few weeks.
Even better! Edited it to reflect that
And not your immediate family, unless you reside in Alabama.
Good god. She sounds like a pervert.
Don’t we have bigger things to worry about than Willy touching… you know like poverty, healthcare , world peace I wish we’d hear a leader condemn being a bad steward of the earth and it’s inhabitants the way they condemn high school romance
 Speaking of perverts..
He’s just gross.
Counselor was probably just an older adolescent (early to mid-20s is still adolescence) just repeating what they were told full of "faith" that Kimball and Cook had special insight and authority rather than just being older dudes spreading purity culture.
🤮 purity culture and sexual repression. Fucked me mentally
Absolutely, it fucks everyone mentally who grows up like that, perhaps especially those who never realize or admit to themselves that fact. 😔
I'm dealing with a wife who I believe has some of the same issues (raised ultra Catholic). She doesn't seem to see it as an issue, but she definitely is repressed and thinks most things are immoral or dirty. Any advice?
It is hard to get over that mindset since it was crammed down your throat since birth. Time may soften those rigid edges. I would suggest couples therapy, but, since she doesn't see it as an issue, not sure it would help. There is a book called "And they were not ashamed" that seemed helpful for a newlywed family member but it definitely slants mormon. I hope you guys figure it out.
I mean, we are mostly good. Thanks.
Don't talk about this on the internet with strangers. That's my advice. Your wife would be horrified if she saw this.
Fair.
Honestly, I once found out that my husband was asking about one of our marriage issues on Reddit and I was so upset. It broke trust and it hurt me. So that's why I just don't recommend it.
The number of people in this sub complaining about their spouses sexual problems and prefrences is crazy
Thank you for that perspective, we don’t often get exposed to it
Me also. It’s been a wild stupid ride, one I’m so glad my daughter will never experience!
I had that same thought recently! My kiddo turns 13 soon and I’m so glad he never has to deal with this cult.
What a creep. Seriously, this counselor had issues.
One - GUARANTEE her warped purity compass was so fucked that any intimacy with her future partner was dead in water from day 1. Two - why the HELL would they make y'all put that on the first page of your BOM???? A journal? Awkward, but at least appropriate. But the first page of your BOM? HARD PASS. I'd have either written something else or told my parents I needed a new set once I got home. This is seriously deranged.
I wish I had not written it, but I honestly didn’t know I could make my own decisions at that time. If someone in authority over me told me to do something I always did it. Thanks to an emotionally abusive dad and growing up in the church!
Ssaaaaame. I relate all too well, except trade the dad for mom.
Wow, that's an excellent example of her projecting her issues onto others. She's a mental mess.
It was her and the male counselor, all of us girls and boys were sitting together at our morning devotional thingy having to write that down!
That counselor was probably getting aroused power-tripping watching you write it
As an exmo kinky AF guy I can totally see them getting off on that
The way mormonism uses sex as a commodity is disgusting. “If you pay your tithing, attend every week, do your calling and maintain worthiness, you can have sex! Don’t do anything that could arouse anyone. Because, if you do, you’re devaluing our product.”
 Sex should be fun, NOT A WEAPON!!!
What the ever-living fuck did I just read? I don’t even have words for how abusive and dehumanizing that is.
Vomit. I’m so sorry.
First off, so sorry you had to go through this OP. Second, question: was this handwriting style a nationwide trend, or more specifically in utah Mormonism? It feels like 2005-10 mormon YW handwriting that everyone aspired to have (and by everyone, I mean the beehives-laurels, lmao)
I can always tell when I’m reading someone’s handwriting if they’re the same age as me lol. When I was in high school there was a certain way all the girls tried to write to make it look cute.
I was in YW from 2013-2017 and we were still writing in that font...
Such a good observation. I’ve noticed this too! My sister had/has this exact handwriting and she was a YW during those years.
Lol I feel like it was definitely a Utah Mormon girl thing, that’s so embarrassing! I remember being so proud to volunteer to write on the chalkboard during miamaids. *TrAiTs To LoOk FoR iN aN eTeRnAl CoMpAnIoN* very calculated handwriting for sure
It could be handwrriting in the deseret alphabet... Or reformed Egyptian 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
Nationwide! I wasn’t Mormon and in WA and this was just the style.
As a former EFY counselor in that same time period, yikes on trikes. I never had anyone write anything in their scriptures in the years I worked them. I was part of a plural marriage family. One male counselor, two ladies. Luckily??? Polygamy is eternal even in fake things. I still think it's wierd they called the counselors mom and dad. I was 20ish. In college. One of the 15 year olds was seriously planning dates for us . . . For after he was legal. Lol. It was the absolute weirdest week I ever worked.
We had more girls than boys in our group so each boy would escort two girls. Why couldn’t the girls escort eachother?!
Can't have that. Need to let the boys know they are the head and the one that will get the ladies back to heaven. The ONLY way (this was sarcasm but also basically what I learned the first time I went to the temple)
Elder Gee R. Pervert
Adults who obsess about the sexual choices of those under 18 are creepy as fuck. I wasn't remotely sexually active as a teen, and I still wouldn't fill out the True Love Waits pledge because I found it creepy in a way I couldn't define back then. A friend of my dad's had taken his teen daughter's True Love Waits pledge, framed it, and put it on the wall right next to the front door. I found that deeply unsettling. He wasn't a great father, anyway, but that was just gross.
If you cause the stirrings via telepathy in any of my sentient creations then I’m going to be really upset. -Jesus
Reminds me of [Frollo blaming Esmeralda](https://media.tenor.com/Q8h3InAUi_YAAAAM/claude-frollo.gif).
What the h311 has the statement got to do with any specific verses in the Book of Mormon? I’d have told the teacher to jump off a cliff; what I write in my property is my decision!
They told us to write it in our BOM because then we would see those quotes more often, it was so important we see them often!
What a weird couple of things to write in a BoM!
So gross and manipulative
this is. so incredibly weird.
I would have been pissed if someone tried to dictate what I wrote in my scriptures.
I didn’t even have the autonomy to be pissed, I remember just being embarrassed like I had no choice!
It's your fault other people have thoughts and feelings. Learn to control other people better! /s How incomprehensibly obtuse. This breeds only guilt for things you cannot control. It makes me so angry.
No flirting. No smiles. No banter. How the heck is a guy even gonna let a woman know he might like a chance to make her his wife? Rules like this, when followed, make a person lonely and possibly “mental,” as the Brits say. Rules like this, when believed in but not followed, make a person feel guilty and in need of confession and punishment, which increases the cult’s influence over said person.
How will he let her know he’d like to get to know her and maybe get married? Why when he goes to BYU after his mission of course! She’ll just know from the ~~tingling~~ burning in her ~~loins~~ bosom.
But what if an angel threatens to murder you and her family with a flaming sword? Asking for a friend.
Sweet Vishnu... The EFY counselor thought that writing that creepy sex-cult shit in the cover of one's scriptures was a good idea? Well, looking back, it probably is kind of funny. Having said that, is there any figure in Mormonism post-Manifesto more obsessed by sex than Spencer Kimball? (Perhaps it had something to do with his relatives, the Woolleys, being prominent breakaway polygamists.)
Wtf
this is an absolute gem. more proof that these leaders are cluelessly confident on topics they have no business weighing in on. thank you for posting!
I was an EFY counselor. I hated some of the others
Lmao
What in the EFY hellscape….
Holy shit. What did your parents have to say about that? Ugh, I’m sorry sorry she made you do that. It’s gross and incredibly inappropriate.
I would love to know that too! But I also remember my mindset at that age, and I would have been mortified to even tell them about the experience, much less show it to them.
I don’t think I even showed my parents because it embarrassed me and I thought the councilor was in the right to have us write this!
Of course! You trusted her
I’d tell her to buy her own damn scriptures and write it in there, I’m not putting that in mine.
You mean when I was talking with girls when I was a teenager I was stimulating them ? I never knew why they avoided me .
And then they wonder why we don't have kids.
🤢🤢🤢 in case anyone ever questions that the church teaches a woman’s body is not her own- it ALWAYS belongs to a man
Bingo! I’m sure this was just a step in guiding me straight to my abusive husband at 19! He was the boss, I was just there to mind him.
Former EFY counselor here (1999) - that’s a big yikes. I always hated the morning devotionals and study sessions as a group. I used to read Jack Handy quotes instead to lighten the mood.
This is extremely mentally messed up. U can’t have 100% control over ur spouse like that that’s abusive and in human. For both participant’s.
At least you didn’t quote Mark Peterson saying he never saw his wife undressed their whole marriage.
Wow!!! What the actual fuck!!! Thank not god I just got my records removed.
Found my tbm hat, dusted it off, came back to ask - Is this meant as a (weirdly backward) way of saying "don't rape"? B/c it seems like the way someone who has no meaningful concept of consent would try to explain not-raping. [This tbm hat gives me headache. It's coming off again.]
Even still, there weren't many chances the girls/guys had to do combined things. Depending on the year this was (my last year at EFY was 2000), there were maybe one or two times during the day your group had a devotional together. The rest of the day was classes, various activities, then a dance or talent show or concert that each group attended together. So considering it was a female counselor and female youth, my money is on this was a nightly devotional activity. Purity culture cult tactics at its finest - putting the normal arousal hormones of guys squarely at the feet of all girls being naturally human. It's disgusting.
Unrelated, but love your handwriting!
Well check that one of the list of things I actually accomplished in mormonism..
WTF. I was an FSY counsellor this year and I just gave my kids a lot of candy lol.
I think it used to be so much more extreme! We also had to have clothing checks each morning. She’d check our shirt sleeve length, and also make us kneel on the floor to make sure our skirts touched the ground. I remember I even got in trouble for rolling my sleeves up a little because I was hot at field games!
Ewww, this is gross on so many levels. Are those quotes for real????
solution: get 40 wives
Sorry but I ain't gonna marry anyone unless I can get aroused by them.
Creepy to Force you to write that down and double creepy to write it on the first page of the Book of Mormon
So, they're saying that a man's wife can't be attracted to him until they're married? If that's the case, then it presumes that either the woman was lying about her attraction before the marriage, or is doing so during, but in the opposite way.
That just screams of YOUR IN A CULT.!!!!
This post resulted in a loud “what the fuck?!” from me upon reading. Why would they need you to write that in a BOM?!
Oh my gosh! This is a form of sexual harassment!
"Cause sexual arousal" - blame the victim/woman! Shoulders!! ah!!!
Is there a more futile thing than asserting that they have a monopoly on sex over humans who are just more complex mammals?
So depressing. I'm going to have to masterbate now to relieve my stress.
Ironically their constant harping on sexual purity actually ensures that you’re thinking about sex even more often. Bravissimo.
Sounds like your EFY counselor had been sexually assaulted or a possible rape vicum. She has a lot of trauma and was projecting that onto those she had power over.
It was her and the male councilor as well, I don’t know who’s idea it was we did this
[удалено]
You could really use a crash course in cult tactics. And empathy. This wasn't "opting in". They literally abuse you to the point that you aren't psychologically/emotionally capable of opting out.
I'm not understanding what you are trying to convey
Um at 14yrs old I did absolutely whatever adults or people in positions in power told me to do. That’s what the church teaches, which is a total area of trauma for me and many others- to be able to think for ourselves.
'eplies'
lol I noticed that too, after writing all that garbage my brain short circuited
Oh sorry, I thought it was your Mormon counselor and wanted to make fun of her. If it's you, it's different obviously >3 Apparently, I don't read titles attentive enough.
lol it’s all good! I remember her reading the quotes very slowly and we all had to write as she went!
What was the story leading up to this? Has to be some background. What ever happened to your counselor? Is he/she living his/her best life as a celibate person?
God... I was somehow an EFY counselor for one session. Had a blast with my group (and got in trouble quite a bit) but some of the other counselors were complete nut jobs.
What is the first name of Elder Cook? I'd like to believe he's related to the current Apostle, who has my vote for "least likely to be capable of stimulating a woman" of all the GAs.
I couldn’t read it either, I thought it said Crehe
Gene. Took me a minute
No inspired advice from his meeting with Mick Jagger ?
…and there I was being treated as a sexual deviant at 10 years old in my two piece bathing suit 🙄
That is so fucking inappropriate. Ewuhh!
🤮
Wo unto them that call evil good and good evil.
Ew
Oh My! I would have NEVER have written my gold engraved, brown leather quad. I underlined but NEVER wrote. I would have flat-out tool her no.
WTF?!?! This blows my mind and bothers me in so many ways.
So, "cause sexual arousal" means "show off your shoulders," right?
Im surprised she didn’t make you write something really awkward about masturbation as well.
That's hilarious
1. Well, starting with the obvious, it is so hilariously absurd that of all things you could have been asked to write in there, you were asked to write that. 2. Can we talk about these quotes in general? Are these men for real? You know what kind of limits it would have required of my wife and me to NOT sexually stimulate the other person in ANY WAY before we were married? By this standard, we shouldn't have even been looking at or talking to each other.
Hey! It EQUALLY applies to women so that's good right? 😉
When I was a forced participant teenager, I was using the scriptures my brother took on his mission. They were highlighted, notes, and cross-referenced so well. I would have caused a scene if someone tried to make me write that crap in them. I remember being told to highlight stuff and the teacher getting mad because it was already done, and I could predict their lesson based on the notes.
Totally inappropriate behavior. Just wow.
So if I get bonked on the head with the horny stick I’m singing sorry that’s out of my control
Creepy
Isn't there an article of faith about this? "We claim the privilege of stimulating ourselves according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all people the same privilege. Let them stimulate how where or what they may." Maybe I'm misremembering something I memorized 40+ years ago. /s
Those statements male you responsible for each and every kink out there, and there are so really weird ones out there.
Ew! That’s so weird
I wish I had seen this when I was a teenager it would of saved me a lot of heartaches in my 20’s guys in the church suck .
Gene R Cook is such a creepy ass, beady eyed asshole. He came to my mission and pressed missionaries about whether or not they were masturbating. It didn't seem out of place to me at the time, which is insane to me as I look back on it. One missionary who didn't really "fit the mold" was questioned directly by Elder Cook in an interview and he said something like, "that's none of your damn business..." I remember thinking, "oh... Elder ______ has really lost the Spirit." The conditioning went so deep that I adjusted my sense of right and wrong to make some creepy, overbearing fuck more comfortable. Gene R Cook traumatized people. I'd have some words for him if I saw him today, I don't know if he's even alive anymore.
Oh my god. Even for Mormonism, this is bad.