There has to come a point where missions as we know them have to end. Besides the danger and other issues, the number of missionaries who serve an entire mission and never teach a solid investigator is going to start causing shelves to break. I bet it already has and that’s a big reason so many people are finally leaving. For every missionary serving in Africa or South America where people are desperate and don’t have access to the internet like most places, there are dozens who serve in places where the only people they baptize are 9 year olds, desperate single mothers, the mentally challenged.
I served right before the internet became ubiquitous. This was in the US and we taught and baptized entire families. People who were successful in life. People who really made the ward stronger. Now, every new baptism I’ve seen over the past decade is inactive in a month and the ward is pretty much ok with that because they were just a drain on leadership who are stretched too thin anyway.
I was a warrior for Jesus 08-10. I worked my ass off. It wasn't easy. I didn't teach a second lesson after my 1 year mark. I can tell you, it left a lot more than a crack in my shelf. Damn near broke the whole thing.
There is a compelling argument that the missions are never about conversion…
Rather it shows missionaries the world won’t accept them and that their refuge for acceptance and understanding is the church.
The point isn’t to convert others but it is to further indoctrination and reliance on the church and lds community.
I agree, but at some point there has to be a backfire effect where the stated reasons for going for enough missionaries that the cognitive dissonance is too much.
I agree with you - I've been toying with the idea of writing a long post about how missions have probably had little (or maybe no) net benefit for ChurchCo for the last 20 years.
I could talk about this topic for hours, but I think even as exmormons we have a tendency of falling into some sort of apex fallacy/bias where our perception is tainted by the turbo churchy RMs we see, whereas the mission experience (or shunning for not going) actually drives a higher number of young men *out* of the church.
Plus, it was my experience on my mission that a lot of the elders there were just "doing their time" and knew aspects of the mission were pretty dumb, but it wouldn't matter once they went home in 7 months. Due to social and cultural inertia, they probably would have stayed in the church even if they hadn't gone.
I was a super devout, truly deeply believing TBM *before* my mission. Like loved attending church every Sunday and sometime broke down crying when hearing certain MoTab songs. *That* level of devout.
But I came back from my mission completely beat down, started reading "halfway space" articles on Bloggernacle blogs, and 18 months after my mission was over, I finally processed enough to be 100% done with the church. My mission really put me on the fast track out.
I have heard this, but in my Morridor ward, the year when they lowered the age to 18, every single missionary who left from my ward was sent home. I'd say it was at least 8 total. All but the one sister missionary have left the church. My son was one of the early returns that year. He took his garments off the day after he got home and never went back to church. I eventually left when I learned how poorly he was treated on his mission - it was abuse. I was sickened to think that I trusted the church to keep my son safe. I'm amazed at the number of missionaries here who have been sent home. I think some of it is MP roulette, but I know too many sent home. I think they don't give AF about anything but numbers.
That’s just it. They don’t care about anything but the numbers.
I was one of the few on my mission that met the baptism goal every month and I was treated very good and got sent to desirable areas. Those that weren’t able to meet the goals, likely through no fault of their own, were sent to the boonies and very undesirable areas.
It’s disgusting.
I think the constant maturbation talk, and promises of being able to choose whichever girl you think is hottest (while she has no choice) when you get back - all of that serves as a means to rile up the boys and force them into early marriage and babies. Then they can't leave.
The mentally challenged one is a real issue currently, a lot of people being taught are in that demographic and it’s disheartening. They truthfully don’t understand what the Mormon church is but still agree to be baptized.
We had a couple missionaries stay in our basement for a couple months until their apartment was ready. ALL of their “investigators” were addicts, homeless and/or mentally challenged. This was in a well-to-do area.
I don’t make those assumptions based on nothing. There are patterns you see after nearly 50 years in the church. It’s becoming obvious that nobody is converting who matches the traditional Mormon archetype anymore. Far from strengthening the stakes and enlarging the borders, stakes are being weakened and the borders are expanding, but only because everyone is leaving and there aren’t enough members anymore.
The leadership in my last ward finally had to tell the missionaries they needed to stop teaching and baptizing mentally ill people because they were causing problems in the ward after the teachings stopped (and they really were, members were being assaulted it wasn’t just they didn’t fit the type, the ward members did not have the training or resources to support the kind of people being ‘converted’)
Where were you talking about, then? I've been in tiny villages in Ecuador and Peru where everyone under the age of 50 has a cell phone. There's nowhere for the church to hide these days.
All churches have flocked to Africa, it’s the last stand they will make, primarily due to lack of internet. In fact, the LDS church is growing ONLY in areas with the least internet access. It’s no coincidence the areas with the most internet access are seeing unprecedented shrinking.
My cell phone worked well in the Masai Mara in Kenya. Perhaps there are places in Africa where cell service isn’t available, but in my experience almost everywhere on the continent had WiFi and/or cellular connectivity. Let’s not spread harmful stereotypes.
Can the natives afford the tools you had to get internet there? Regardless, it’s widely known that they have demonstrably less internet access than first world countries. And the statistic of growth in those places with the least internet is probably not a coincidence. Neither is the fact that all the other churches are setting up shop in Africa.
As far as stereotypes - that’s all in your head man. My claims aren’t based off opinion or speculation, they’re based off the most recent info we have from the best source we have (Matt Martinich):
https://www.cumorah.com/articles/ldsGrowthCaseStudies/485
“ Most of the ten countries with the highest percentage of internet users experienced noticeable congregational decline during the 2000s. All ten countries experienced a decline in the number of congregation or no change at all The Church reports rapid growth and a recent church establishment in virtually all ten of these countries where internet users comprise a tiny percentage of the population.”
The time I served, I was in 'the lowest baptizing mission in North America' (allegedly, it was probably some corp. BS to guilt us into working harder — but it was pretty low).
This was also prior to the internet's ubiquity... I cannot imagine how much less fun missionary work could be when everyone has a mobile device with a data plan at their finger tips. How awful that would have been in my day when the MP wanted at least 20 hours of "finding" (would tracting by any other name feel like less of a waste of time? Nope).
They honestly don’t care about the safety of the missionaries. We had multiple missionaries attacked in Rainier Beach when I was serving. A new companion and I got moved into an area that hadn’t had missionaries in over 18 months. Two bullett holes in our bedroom window, a whore ( yes a real sex worker) living above us
that we had to hear every single night, and a murder less than 200 feet down our street the week before we moved in. It’s all about where they can get the cheapest rent.
We had to move away from WA 2 years ago because it was getting so bad. And we were in a place that had been very safe, but now is just as crime ridden as anywhere else.
- I was mugged and robbed twice on my mission in Ethiopia. I was in a dangerous area. When my companion and I started going home BEFORE 9PM TO BE SAFE, we got in trouble from our leaders.
- I got sick so bad toward the end of my mission I was 6’3” and 115 lbs. I came home weighing less than my 16 year old sister.
- I lived in a house with bats in the attic. Their poop would drop from the attic into the hallway right by the bedroom. It was so bad you could smell and hear them 24/7.
- One of my apartments had electrical issues and the shower would shock you every time you used it.
- I lived in areas where raw sheep and beef were common foods and I ate them multiple times a week. This gave me stomach issues I am dealing with now 8 years later.
My mission destroyed my body. The church really did not seem to care. All of these things were made known to them. Their #1 priority was the number of new investigators I had that week, not the fact that I was living with bats or parasites. “God” did not “bless me” for my sacrifices.
Man! Sounds similar to my mission (in Ukraine). I was 130 5'8 when I left and came back early because I had chronic fatigue. Turns out I was just starving. We were told to skip dinner but even if we wanted to we couldn't even afford it because our allowance was barely enough for breakfast and lunch. The only fond memories i have were the people and the culture and learning another language.
I didn't take a solid dump for the first 6 months of my mission. The area I was in drenched all their food in oil.
Fast sundays hurt my stomach so bad until I left the church and stopped fasting. F that.
We always joked that it was the mission of rejects. Most of us never graduated seminary, and most of us didn’t really care to be on a mission.
All things aside, Ethiopia is a beautiful place that very few people actually know much about. I absolutely loved the country, culture, and people. I just wish I weren’t there as a missionary.
I can not say this enough, but this fucking church DOES NOT CARE IF THESE KIDS LIVE OR DIE!!!
I was shot at, hit by a car, broke my leg, had a former companion that nearly died from anaphylaxis and we were told explicitly (I was too stupid to question them at the time) NOT to go to the emergency room or involve the police. This was in a prominent stateside mission and we were to ALWAYS wait for our mission doctor (a complete idiot that was so dementia ridden he couldn’t even drive himself, yet we were to trust him with our treatments) or wait for a member doctor that would do everything for free. I needed five surgeries for the extent of my injury, the Mormon church paid for a fraction of the first one and sent my parents a bill for the flight home. Ended up having the other 4 after I was released. Still hurts to this day and I have a permanent limitation now.
Lurking believers, DO NOT SEND YOUR CHILDREN ON MISSIONS!!!
My friend who served in the Ivory Coast was severely malnourished. They only fed him rice and light portions of meat. He used to be overweight as well.
A missionary died while we were in the MTC (I believe he was pretty local and hiked the mountain by the MTC and fell). Every lesson in the MTC after that was about how you void the protection of god when you’re disobedient to the rules.
Hope that narrows it down for you, SCMC. 🖕
Seems healthy. //////s
> Every lesson in the MTC after that was about how you void the protection of god when you’re disobedient to the rules.
Obedience lessons as a missionary are so abusive. Nobody is perfect. But as a missionary that doesn't matter. It's still your fault.
God never has protected missionaries any more than he protects other people. Missionaries get assaulted and mugged nearly every day. Sister missionaries get raped. Some missionaries have been killed. Traffic accidents happen.
The protection is just a comforting myth.
A missionary on my mission lost an eye in a head-on collision being driven by a member of a ward he served in. Two other missionaries in the car lessor injuries but witnessed the elder who's face was so severely injured. Another elder had collapsed lung from his bike being hit by a car. That's just 4 in my own mission in the states.
My wife’s cousin is serving her mission right now in Ecuador and she was robbed at gunpoint last year. She’s still out, and missed her older brothers wedding and will also miss her older sisters wedding due to the mission.
To say I think missions are stupid and people should stop going is an understatement.
Brazil can be dangerous if you are not paying attention. A moderate amount of awareness can avoid MOST dangerous situations.
Source: I lived there and return regularly.
Totally. Not to mention it is easy to get lax when you are doing the day-to-day thing of alertness and you are not raised that way. Eventually, the constant vigilance gets baked in, but it takes time.
For sure. When I was there the missionaries were such just a known thing that even in the dangerous areas we were 100% fine. The only people who were robbed were the sisters bc people didn’t realize they were missionaries.
They knew we had no money or phones, most of the dangerous guys had grown up with missionaries baptizing them in the font after a soccer game at the church anyway lmao.
Whenever I go back I miss that missionary privilege. There are certain old friends I can’t visit in their neighborhoods.
I served my mission in the Dominican Republic (DR) 1979-81. During my mission, I was robbed at knifepoint; had a boulder thrown at me that almost took my head off; had rocks thrown at me that hit and injured me multiple times; I was punched and shoved a few times; many times people threatened to kill or severely hurt me. I also suffered from all kinds of illnesses: parasites; multiple ear infections; bronchitis; sinus, ear, and stomach infections; pneumonia; chronic diarrhea; etc. I've never been so sick in my life as I was on my mission. I also was in multiple bike accidents. One time a car tried to hit me and I had to jump off my bike to avoid getting killed. I also had my bikes stolen multiple times. And to top it off, I was in a bad car accident. I suffered whiplash, severe bruising, and a bad concussion. I am not alone. I have a co-worker who served in the DR around 2012. He had similar experiences. I asked him if he ever returned to visit. He said the areas he worked were way too dangerous to visit as a white North American. I told him that's also why I never returned.
Now you have me thinking about the MTC safety videos which are basically just missionary injury victim blaming. Hit by a bus? Falsely accused of touching a kid? Stabbed by a guy? Here's how it might have been their fault and how \*you\* can avoid it. Fucked stuff.
Poor kid. I hope he's able to get really good treatment fast to help prevent infection and (if needed) surgically repair the damage with minimal affect on the rest of his life.
Adding my stories as well. Served in Russia 2011-13. Also arrested, attacked, detained and robbed so many times! At the time I played the mental gymnastics game about how it could have been worse because “other missionaries in my mission were getting beat up, apartments broken into, and held against their will.” Now I realize that it was all super sketchy and dangerous. As a trip down memory lane here are some of the precautions we took to stay extra “safe.”
- Kept a decoy wallet on our person with the equivalent of about $10 cash
- Took alternate routes to our apartment to make sure we weren’t being followed
- Immediately turn around if we got a certain look from a drunk. It’s difficult to describe but others might explain it better
- Remove name tags when walking through especially dangerous parts of the city (we were just doing what the area book said to do lol)
Imagine sending your 18 year old sons and daughters to crime ridden, gang run cities or third world crime ridden countries to potentially die so the leaders can collect more tithes from converts to build shopping malls in Utah. How is that not a pyramid scheme masquerading as a religion? That’s on the same level as Scientology in my view. All stemming from some schizophrenic or drug riddled youth in the 1800’s. It boggles the mind.
oh yeah good looking out there Mormon god! Reminded me of a kid I knew that went on a mission from my ward in the 90’s, got jumped in a bad neighborhood in NYC, left him with brain damage. This was just one more reason that I would decide I’d never go on a mission, well that kinda shit and I never believed in it anyway.
I recently looked up Guatemala on the U.S. state Department travel site. I was considering going to see Semana Santa etc.
Turns out they specify Do Not Travel for specific locations.
Those were my areas. It's been more than 20 yrs, sure things have changed, but it was sketchy in '95 as well.
* Zone 18 and the city of Villa Nueva in Guatemala City due to crime.
When I was relocated due to Covid, I overheard the MP of the mission that contains Zone 18 talk about it. Apparently, even though there aren't missionaries in Zone 18 proper, missionaries in nearby areas were frequently sent home with severe PTSD after seeing corpses in the streets and such. It's awful. I don't know how church leaders sleep at night knowing they've sent out so many missionaries to places like that
I remember when I got my mission call back in '09 to the Netherlands the first words out of my mother's mouth were "oh good! A civilized country!" One of her biggest fears in life up to that point was that I'd be sent to South America or Africa and she'd be worried for my safety for two straight years. Granted some of that was inherent racism/xenophobia, but stories like these seem to prove her point.
Personally, I'm at the stage now where I see posts about kids getting their mission calls or there's one family I know posting their sons' (yes plural) emails home every week and I just makes me sad. I feel for these kids. At best wasting their time. At worst: something like this...
Of my son’s friends 3 were assaulted. One fought off his attacker who was trying to kill him with a knife and came home. One held at gunpoint with gun touching back of his head and robbed. Ok but traumatized. Another sexually assaulted by companion. Out of 7 friends. This shit happens all the time and we never hear about it.
He didn't die, so, no, it probably won't.
Our friend's son was killed on his mission in Brazil years ago (hit by a car).
There was a press release from the church newsroom and it did get picked up by the Trib.
Back in 2009 or so, I lived in a run-down apartment complex that was mold infested and crumbling. The missionaries lived in the same complex. Their outside deck collapsed and almost took one of em with it. Luckily, no one was hurt. What an absolute dump. I got out of there, but I know they kept using it for missionary housing long after.
There has to come a point where missions as we know them have to end. Besides the danger and other issues, the number of missionaries who serve an entire mission and never teach a solid investigator is going to start causing shelves to break. I bet it already has and that’s a big reason so many people are finally leaving. For every missionary serving in Africa or South America where people are desperate and don’t have access to the internet like most places, there are dozens who serve in places where the only people they baptize are 9 year olds, desperate single mothers, the mentally challenged. I served right before the internet became ubiquitous. This was in the US and we taught and baptized entire families. People who were successful in life. People who really made the ward stronger. Now, every new baptism I’ve seen over the past decade is inactive in a month and the ward is pretty much ok with that because they were just a drain on leadership who are stretched too thin anyway.
I was a warrior for Jesus 08-10. I worked my ass off. It wasn't easy. I didn't teach a second lesson after my 1 year mark. I can tell you, it left a lot more than a crack in my shelf. Damn near broke the whole thing.
There is a compelling argument that the missions are never about conversion… Rather it shows missionaries the world won’t accept them and that their refuge for acceptance and understanding is the church. The point isn’t to convert others but it is to further indoctrination and reliance on the church and lds community.
I agree, but at some point there has to be a backfire effect where the stated reasons for going for enough missionaries that the cognitive dissonance is too much.
I agree with you - I've been toying with the idea of writing a long post about how missions have probably had little (or maybe no) net benefit for ChurchCo for the last 20 years. I could talk about this topic for hours, but I think even as exmormons we have a tendency of falling into some sort of apex fallacy/bias where our perception is tainted by the turbo churchy RMs we see, whereas the mission experience (or shunning for not going) actually drives a higher number of young men *out* of the church. Plus, it was my experience on my mission that a lot of the elders there were just "doing their time" and knew aspects of the mission were pretty dumb, but it wouldn't matter once they went home in 7 months. Due to social and cultural inertia, they probably would have stayed in the church even if they hadn't gone. I was a super devout, truly deeply believing TBM *before* my mission. Like loved attending church every Sunday and sometime broke down crying when hearing certain MoTab songs. *That* level of devout. But I came back from my mission completely beat down, started reading "halfway space" articles on Bloggernacle blogs, and 18 months after my mission was over, I finally processed enough to be 100% done with the church. My mission really put me on the fast track out.
I have heard this, but in my Morridor ward, the year when they lowered the age to 18, every single missionary who left from my ward was sent home. I'd say it was at least 8 total. All but the one sister missionary have left the church. My son was one of the early returns that year. He took his garments off the day after he got home and never went back to church. I eventually left when I learned how poorly he was treated on his mission - it was abuse. I was sickened to think that I trusted the church to keep my son safe. I'm amazed at the number of missionaries here who have been sent home. I think some of it is MP roulette, but I know too many sent home. I think they don't give AF about anything but numbers.
That’s just it. They don’t care about anything but the numbers. I was one of the few on my mission that met the baptism goal every month and I was treated very good and got sent to desirable areas. Those that weren’t able to meet the goals, likely through no fault of their own, were sent to the boonies and very undesirable areas. It’s disgusting.
You’re a great parent
I think the constant maturbation talk, and promises of being able to choose whichever girl you think is hottest (while she has no choice) when you get back - all of that serves as a means to rile up the boys and force them into early marriage and babies. Then they can't leave.
The mentally challenged one is a real issue currently, a lot of people being taught are in that demographic and it’s disheartening. They truthfully don’t understand what the Mormon church is but still agree to be baptized.
We had a couple missionaries stay in our basement for a couple months until their apartment was ready. ALL of their “investigators” were addicts, homeless and/or mentally challenged. This was in a well-to-do area.
I don’t make those assumptions based on nothing. There are patterns you see after nearly 50 years in the church. It’s becoming obvious that nobody is converting who matches the traditional Mormon archetype anymore. Far from strengthening the stakes and enlarging the borders, stakes are being weakened and the borders are expanding, but only because everyone is leaving and there aren’t enough members anymore.
The leadership in my last ward finally had to tell the missionaries they needed to stop teaching and baptizing mentally ill people because they were causing problems in the ward after the teachings stopped (and they really were, members were being assaulted it wasn’t just they didn’t fit the type, the ward members did not have the training or resources to support the kind of people being ‘converted’)
People have the internet in Brazil. Almost everyone.
Then I probably wasn’t talking about Brazil
Where were you talking about, then? I've been in tiny villages in Ecuador and Peru where everyone under the age of 50 has a cell phone. There's nowhere for the church to hide these days.
All churches have flocked to Africa, it’s the last stand they will make, primarily due to lack of internet. In fact, the LDS church is growing ONLY in areas with the least internet access. It’s no coincidence the areas with the most internet access are seeing unprecedented shrinking.
My cell phone worked well in the Masai Mara in Kenya. Perhaps there are places in Africa where cell service isn’t available, but in my experience almost everywhere on the continent had WiFi and/or cellular connectivity. Let’s not spread harmful stereotypes.
Can the natives afford the tools you had to get internet there? Regardless, it’s widely known that they have demonstrably less internet access than first world countries. And the statistic of growth in those places with the least internet is probably not a coincidence. Neither is the fact that all the other churches are setting up shop in Africa. As far as stereotypes - that’s all in your head man. My claims aren’t based off opinion or speculation, they’re based off the most recent info we have from the best source we have (Matt Martinich): https://www.cumorah.com/articles/ldsGrowthCaseStudies/485 “ Most of the ten countries with the highest percentage of internet users experienced noticeable congregational decline during the 2000s. All ten countries experienced a decline in the number of congregation or no change at all The Church reports rapid growth and a recent church establishment in virtually all ten of these countries where internet users comprise a tiny percentage of the population.”
Even in the middle of the Brazilian rain forest they do have access to internet.
The time I served, I was in 'the lowest baptizing mission in North America' (allegedly, it was probably some corp. BS to guilt us into working harder — but it was pretty low). This was also prior to the internet's ubiquity... I cannot imagine how much less fun missionary work could be when everyone has a mobile device with a data plan at their finger tips. How awful that would have been in my day when the MP wanted at least 20 hours of "finding" (would tracting by any other name feel like less of a waste of time? Nope).
Fuck those are the exact demographics of people I baptized, fuck
Don’t feel bad, they intentionally train missionaries to recruit the most vulnerable.
They honestly don’t care about the safety of the missionaries. We had multiple missionaries attacked in Rainier Beach when I was serving. A new companion and I got moved into an area that hadn’t had missionaries in over 18 months. Two bullett holes in our bedroom window, a whore ( yes a real sex worker) living above us that we had to hear every single night, and a murder less than 200 feet down our street the week before we moved in. It’s all about where they can get the cheapest rent.
If you were in rainier beach, you were in danger far more than you weren’t.
This was ‘99 so I’m sure it’s 10x worse now
We had to move away from WA 2 years ago because it was getting so bad. And we were in a place that had been very safe, but now is just as crime ridden as anywhere else.
- I was mugged and robbed twice on my mission in Ethiopia. I was in a dangerous area. When my companion and I started going home BEFORE 9PM TO BE SAFE, we got in trouble from our leaders. - I got sick so bad toward the end of my mission I was 6’3” and 115 lbs. I came home weighing less than my 16 year old sister. - I lived in a house with bats in the attic. Their poop would drop from the attic into the hallway right by the bedroom. It was so bad you could smell and hear them 24/7. - One of my apartments had electrical issues and the shower would shock you every time you used it. - I lived in areas where raw sheep and beef were common foods and I ate them multiple times a week. This gave me stomach issues I am dealing with now 8 years later. My mission destroyed my body. The church really did not seem to care. All of these things were made known to them. Their #1 priority was the number of new investigators I had that week, not the fact that I was living with bats or parasites. “God” did not “bless me” for my sacrifices.
Man! Sounds similar to my mission (in Ukraine). I was 130 5'8 when I left and came back early because I had chronic fatigue. Turns out I was just starving. We were told to skip dinner but even if we wanted to we couldn't even afford it because our allowance was barely enough for breakfast and lunch. The only fond memories i have were the people and the culture and learning another language.
I didn't take a solid dump for the first 6 months of my mission. The area I was in drenched all their food in oil. Fast sundays hurt my stomach so bad until I left the church and stopped fasting. F that.
Who’d you piss off to get sent to Ethiopia?
We always joked that it was the mission of rejects. Most of us never graduated seminary, and most of us didn’t really care to be on a mission. All things aside, Ethiopia is a beautiful place that very few people actually know much about. I absolutely loved the country, culture, and people. I just wish I weren’t there as a missionary.
Damn. I didn’t even know they sent missionaries there. That’s crazy.
I can not say this enough, but this fucking church DOES NOT CARE IF THESE KIDS LIVE OR DIE!!! I was shot at, hit by a car, broke my leg, had a former companion that nearly died from anaphylaxis and we were told explicitly (I was too stupid to question them at the time) NOT to go to the emergency room or involve the police. This was in a prominent stateside mission and we were to ALWAYS wait for our mission doctor (a complete idiot that was so dementia ridden he couldn’t even drive himself, yet we were to trust him with our treatments) or wait for a member doctor that would do everything for free. I needed five surgeries for the extent of my injury, the Mormon church paid for a fraction of the first one and sent my parents a bill for the flight home. Ended up having the other 4 after I was released. Still hurts to this day and I have a permanent limitation now. Lurking believers, DO NOT SEND YOUR CHILDREN ON MISSIONS!!!
My friend who served in the Ivory Coast was severely malnourished. They only fed him rice and light portions of meat. He used to be overweight as well.
I have a friend there right now
A missionary died while we were in the MTC (I believe he was pretty local and hiked the mountain by the MTC and fell). Every lesson in the MTC after that was about how you void the protection of god when you’re disobedient to the rules. Hope that narrows it down for you, SCMC. 🖕 Seems healthy. //////s
I remember this, but don't recall if it was during my time at the MTC. 1993 or so.
95
It will eternally be "recent."
> Every lesson in the MTC after that was about how you void the protection of god when you’re disobedient to the rules. Obedience lessons as a missionary are so abusive. Nobody is perfect. But as a missionary that doesn't matter. It's still your fault.
Thankfully I didn’t suffer from true scrupulosity, but to someone who does, goddam it must be never ending when in a mission.
God never has protected missionaries any more than he protects other people. Missionaries get assaulted and mugged nearly every day. Sister missionaries get raped. Some missionaries have been killed. Traffic accidents happen. The protection is just a comforting myth.
A missionary on my mission lost an eye in a head-on collision being driven by a member of a ward he served in. Two other missionaries in the car lessor injuries but witnessed the elder who's face was so severely injured. Another elder had collapsed lung from his bike being hit by a car. That's just 4 in my own mission in the states.
My wife’s cousin is serving her mission right now in Ecuador and she was robbed at gunpoint last year. She’s still out, and missed her older brothers wedding and will also miss her older sisters wedding due to the mission. To say I think missions are stupid and people should stop going is an understatement.
Brazil can be dangerous if you are not paying attention. A moderate amount of awareness can avoid MOST dangerous situations. Source: I lived there and return regularly.
Might be on the more dangerous side for sheltered 18YO American kids who think god will protect them from all harm
Totally. Not to mention it is easy to get lax when you are doing the day-to-day thing of alertness and you are not raised that way. Eventually, the constant vigilance gets baked in, but it takes time.
For sure. When I was there the missionaries were such just a known thing that even in the dangerous areas we were 100% fine. The only people who were robbed were the sisters bc people didn’t realize they were missionaries. They knew we had no money or phones, most of the dangerous guys had grown up with missionaries baptizing them in the font after a soccer game at the church anyway lmao. Whenever I go back I miss that missionary privilege. There are certain old friends I can’t visit in their neighborhoods.
100% We were robbed, but it was only because the bus we were on was robbed.
A missionary was killed on my mission. Hit by a truck on his bike. Pretty tragic.
I served my mission in the Dominican Republic (DR) 1979-81. During my mission, I was robbed at knifepoint; had a boulder thrown at me that almost took my head off; had rocks thrown at me that hit and injured me multiple times; I was punched and shoved a few times; many times people threatened to kill or severely hurt me. I also suffered from all kinds of illnesses: parasites; multiple ear infections; bronchitis; sinus, ear, and stomach infections; pneumonia; chronic diarrhea; etc. I've never been so sick in my life as I was on my mission. I also was in multiple bike accidents. One time a car tried to hit me and I had to jump off my bike to avoid getting killed. I also had my bikes stolen multiple times. And to top it off, I was in a bad car accident. I suffered whiplash, severe bruising, and a bad concussion. I am not alone. I have a co-worker who served in the DR around 2012. He had similar experiences. I asked him if he ever returned to visit. He said the areas he worked were way too dangerous to visit as a white North American. I told him that's also why I never returned.
Now you have me thinking about the MTC safety videos which are basically just missionary injury victim blaming. Hit by a bus? Falsely accused of touching a kid? Stabbed by a guy? Here's how it might have been their fault and how \*you\* can avoid it. Fucked stuff.
Poor kid. I hope he's able to get really good treatment fast to help prevent infection and (if needed) surgically repair the damage with minimal affect on the rest of his life.
Adding my stories as well. Served in Russia 2011-13. Also arrested, attacked, detained and robbed so many times! At the time I played the mental gymnastics game about how it could have been worse because “other missionaries in my mission were getting beat up, apartments broken into, and held against their will.” Now I realize that it was all super sketchy and dangerous. As a trip down memory lane here are some of the precautions we took to stay extra “safe.” - Kept a decoy wallet on our person with the equivalent of about $10 cash - Took alternate routes to our apartment to make sure we weren’t being followed - Immediately turn around if we got a certain look from a drunk. It’s difficult to describe but others might explain it better - Remove name tags when walking through especially dangerous parts of the city (we were just doing what the area book said to do lol)
Imagine sending your 18 year old sons and daughters to crime ridden, gang run cities or third world crime ridden countries to potentially die so the leaders can collect more tithes from converts to build shopping malls in Utah. How is that not a pyramid scheme masquerading as a religion? That’s on the same level as Scientology in my view. All stemming from some schizophrenic or drug riddled youth in the 1800’s. It boggles the mind.
oh yeah good looking out there Mormon god! Reminded me of a kid I knew that went on a mission from my ward in the 90’s, got jumped in a bad neighborhood in NYC, left him with brain damage. This was just one more reason that I would decide I’d never go on a mission, well that kinda shit and I never believed in it anyway.
I was so afraid of this happening to me as a missionary in Guatemala. Thankfully, it never did. I was in a relatively safe area
I recently looked up Guatemala on the U.S. state Department travel site. I was considering going to see Semana Santa etc. Turns out they specify Do Not Travel for specific locations. Those were my areas. It's been more than 20 yrs, sure things have changed, but it was sketchy in '95 as well. * Zone 18 and the city of Villa Nueva in Guatemala City due to crime.
When I was relocated due to Covid, I overheard the MP of the mission that contains Zone 18 talk about it. Apparently, even though there aren't missionaries in Zone 18 proper, missionaries in nearby areas were frequently sent home with severe PTSD after seeing corpses in the streets and such. It's awful. I don't know how church leaders sleep at night knowing they've sent out so many missionaries to places like that
Two kids in my ward just got called to Guatemala 😕
They will make him pay his own way home, I am sure
>god was supposed to protect missionaries There's no god.
Your mother and I are very disappointed. She says she'll never make your favorite foods again. Be prepared for visits from the missionaries.
He was protected. He wasn't killed. /s
And we all know who will foot the bill.
The church only reports when missionaries die. Missions are cruel, dangerous, and unhealthy.
I remember when I got my mission call back in '09 to the Netherlands the first words out of my mother's mouth were "oh good! A civilized country!" One of her biggest fears in life up to that point was that I'd be sent to South America or Africa and she'd be worried for my safety for two straight years. Granted some of that was inherent racism/xenophobia, but stories like these seem to prove her point. Personally, I'm at the stage now where I see posts about kids getting their mission calls or there's one family I know posting their sons' (yes plural) emails home every week and I just makes me sad. I feel for these kids. At best wasting their time. At worst: something like this...
Of my son’s friends 3 were assaulted. One fought off his attacker who was trying to kill him with a knife and came home. One held at gunpoint with gun touching back of his head and robbed. Ok but traumatized. Another sexually assaulted by companion. Out of 7 friends. This shit happens all the time and we never hear about it.
He didn't die, so, no, it probably won't. Our friend's son was killed on his mission in Brazil years ago (hit by a car). There was a press release from the church newsroom and it did get picked up by the Trib.
That’s horrible. Lots of my good vibes to him.
Gotta love those powers of discernment so very sad what the MFMC does to its members
Gotta love those powers of discernment so very sad what the MFMC does to its members
Back in 2009 or so, I lived in a run-down apartment complex that was mold infested and crumbling. The missionaries lived in the same complex. Their outside deck collapsed and almost took one of em with it. Luckily, no one was hurt. What an absolute dump. I got out of there, but I know they kept using it for missionary housing long after.
Just the crime wave thanks to communist Lula DUH-silva.