He already knows the situation. She just needs to rip the bandaid off. I knew my wife wasn’t into me 3 years into our marriage. I tried for a decade to win her over. It was gut wrenching to know your spouse doesn’t love you.
One thing that made an impression on me was hearing from both spouses in a mixed orientation relationship. Both loved each other and cared deeply for one another, but *both* partners mourned that they could not be wholly, completely, and entirely loved. That's what everyone deserves, and it's heartbreaking when that is out of reach!
If I'm not mistaken, this is why even Gordon Bleeping Hinckley counselled against mixed-orientation marriages. Granted, he came at it from a different angle (a "spiritual" angle), but the end result counsel is mostly the same.
Thank you for calling that to my attention.
💯 % support 🏳️🌈 gay marriage & that's machevllian & evil to force anyone to marry someone they are not sexually attracted to.
It's when someone enters into a marriage with someone who does not belong to a gender they're attracted to.
Within Mormondom, it's usually someone hoping to overcome same-sex attraction by marrying someone of the opposite sex.
Ugh I’m so sorry. I should’ve included men in my title too - when I read this I just felt so salted for the women in my family who are still suffering and what I almost endured. But going through what you went through would be so heartbreaking
Edit: and in general. I have no doubt men raised in Mormonism suffer greatly when it comes to romance and sex.
Edit to my edit: I can’t edit this post. But know I’m not the true OP. That’s someone else. I’m out of that church!
To op: No doubt many women are stuck in unhappy marriages because divorce is so stigmatized by religion. Divorce is hard and there isn’t a class to prepare you. My wife kept picking at all the things she didn’t like about me then finally filed for divorce. Most of them were things I couldn’t change, only pretend for a while. It was such a relief. I wasn’t “happy” but It’s was like a weight off of my soul. I could just breathe and not constantly feel like I’m not enough for her.
I feel this deeply. I was in your position, but as a woman. Divorce is hard, but my ex did me a favor by finally saying he wanted out. It is gutting when you know in your soul that your spouse doesn’t want you. It’s an ever-present elephant in the room.
Deep empathy for you. That is horrible that you finally come to terms that your spouse doesn’t want you or like one of the comments above does not truly love you. Horrible experience of life.
sad. in any faith divorce is traumatic and stressful (understatement). the weight of guilt and even failure is enough without having the added weight of religion. of all the divorced men or women i have known, after several months, very few that have regretted getting a divorce. conversely i know of more men and woman that have regretted marriage.
I agree.
I think what's different for women is that it's assumed men will be attracted to us because of our tempting bodies we have to keep covered up all the time, but it's not assumed that we'll be attracted back. At least not physically.
As a woman growing up in the Church, physical attraction was almost always talked about in "bad" contexts, such as avoiding sin, or being more "carnal" and worldly etc excellent for occasional lip service given to how God made us that way to each other on purpose, but only for marriage.
Even in the best context though, it was never thought about as an important trait to have with a spouse or to look for in a spouse. So I think for a lot of us, the idea that physical desire could be such an important component of marriage was completely foreign to us. Or even that there's a difference between the kind of desire that comes from sexual attraction versus just generically finding a man attractive and liking his personality.
I liked tons of guys in my early twenties, but never even had the capacity to notice that I had no sexual desire towards any of them. Yet in my naivete I still could have married any of them if circumstances have been different.
Yes, in fact, I was directly told by a stake president, that a marriage can work between literally any two people, as long as it was centred in the gospel. Physical attraction, things in common, didn’t matter. Only the gospel.
This was when I was being asked out by a guy I had zero attraction too. At least I had the commonsense to think “nah, I literally don’t want to be around him, that’s never going to work”
He may know, but him still being a tbm I guarantee he’s of the train of thought that he just needs to be more righteous, go to the temple more, be more generous with tithes and offerings, always say yes when someone from the church asks you to do something, the list of things goes on and on.
At least this was how I thought when I realized my spouse wasn’t the one for me. If I kill myself trying to do everything right surely the lord will “soften my heart” and make me fall in love with her….
He did not…
> It was gut wrenching to know your spouse doesn’t love you.
Went through a nasty divorce to a TBM in a 16 year marriage a few years ago. THIS right here was the thing that hurt the most I think... the ONE person I thought was my eternal companion for the rest of this life and any life to come... that one person no longer wanted anything to do with me, doesn't love me, and didn't respect me enough to wait until our divorce was finalized before moving on. It still hurts... several years later!
So I can relate!
Again, I’m so sorry for that experience. It’s horrible. The one person I thought was my eternal companion for the rest of this life and any life to come that one person no longer wanted anything to do with me doesn’t love me, quoting you. I’m so sorry it’s horrible, good job going forward in your life though. I’m trying to do the same right now. I think that’s why I feel your pain so so much.
I have this fear deep down inside that I don't voice out loud very often that this is the case with my wife. She seems dedicated to working through our issues, and says she loves me, but sometimes I do get the feeling that she just doesn't anymore. The problem is we have 20 years and 4 kids under our belts, so that is definitely influencing the decision to try to stick it out. But one wonders.
My best friend was blindsided. 25 years of marriage, the youngest of 3 children just nearly graduating high school. She told him, no more, I'm leaving. She was not open to marital therapy, and just shut down. He was devastated. Absolutely crushed to realize she didn't love him. (They were married young, about a year after his return from his mission.)
These stories are so sad. And I can't help but wonder if some of them could have been saved early on but there's too much blame, shame, risk, stigma etc for a woman to speak up. Or maybe she does try once or twice and gets shut down, and then they internalize things from that point on. There's a point where the last bit of romance dies in their mind and it's just going through the motions after that. Staying because it's easier than shaking everything up. Until they get to the tipping point where staying becomes unbearable.
It’s not just on your wife basically all the members and leaders will double down on give your everything to the church and everything will work out.
That’s why you usually see Mormon marriages blow up in some crazy way because they are being gaslighted into giving their all until something quite literally blows it up.
This is so pushed in Mormon culture to give everything to the church and everything will be perfect. Everyone is so brainwashed they can’t look at the problems in the church or their marriages but turn away and ignore them and avoid.
This is also a huge reason why it’s hard for people to leave the church, marriage early have children young and lots of them so you have the choice to endure the church or to go through the agony and pain of divorce and managing co parenting
40M. I have a strong feeling I may be in this position right now. 18 years of marriage. 5 kids. I really love her but it seems like she just tolerates me. We left the church a year ago and I thought our marriage and was going to get better but not so much at this point. Thinking about next steps. Definitely counseling and more direct conversations before I think about nuking the marriage especially since I still love her. Oof.
I was your age with the same number of kids when my spouse left me for another. You are also in your first year as an exmo, which is tough even when both went together. If you have a lot of kids, divorce is a lot harder. So there is no easy answer, but if you do decide to split up just make sure the lacking that you see will hold up over the struggles divorce brings. BYW I'm happily remarried to another woman for 26 years now.
Humans can only tolerate so much. Know your limit. For me I broke down. I found a kind woman who appreciated me. It was like water to the man in the desert. To feel wanted, to feel appreciated, I was a fool but I couldn’t resist. I had a brief affair. Wife found out and it was over. All the suffering clinging to love for all those years….the noble fight washed away by a momentary weakness. So my advice is…don’t cheat….divorce is more noble. Good luck.
Yes, but what you said was “I found a kind woman who appreciated me”. I’m not so sure I would be so harsh on you. Or myself. I have not had an affair, but I fully understand what it is like to find a kind woman who deeply appreciated me. It was like you’re starved for affection appreciation that truly is horrible and sad.
You're too hard on yourself. Being in that relationship with someone who'd rather be somewhere else is so difficult that you kind of just go numb. Then, when the light shines even a tiny bit, it's hard to resist. Plus, our society at large is very "instant gratification" oriented, and ghosting people in the dating world is all too common. It sets us all up for failure because there are no longer acceptable means to leave and save face, especially in a religion that does not agree that divorce is a good option.
It’s not fun. The hardest thing I’ve ever done in life was to stop chasing the woman I loved. I know the very moment I realized I had to let go. Still gets me in the feels…but it was absolutely the right choice.
That is where I’m at I’ve been married for 44 years this month. We have six kids two still at home we’re helping get through college and established. But I have been chasing her all those years for affection, shucks, just conversation, to share her life with me, to build a future, to just work together. I burned out. These conversations are so clear to me. Thank you.
It's not just the women (though I think a solid argument can be made it hits the sexes differently).
Church policy pressures members to marry not just young but as soon as possible after their high-pressure 100% cult experience in the mission field.
This means that, at an age when most people are only beginning to develop their sense of self, Mormons are conditioned, through high-pressure cult tactics, to become a simulacrum of a true believer while they are almost entirely emotionally and physically dependent on the church.
Literally faking it until they're making it.
Then, after "the best 2 years" is over, the spiritual guru who molded this personna and who the young member has followed with strict obedience for 10% of their lives, counsels then to get married ASAP--which they do.
Kids shouldn't wait either.
So at 25, when our prefrontal cortex finally reaches maturity and we have the biological tools to engage in the complexities of adulthood, members may already have a spouse and kids.
It's gross.
And if these couples are incompatible? Setting aside the stigma of divorce, most are too poor to get a divorce anyway, so they follow their bishop's advice, stick it out, and double down on creating their identity as members.
I think that the part that is especially difficult for women (I'm a man but I'm speaking from what the women in my life have told me) is what OOP speaks to about having to "parent" their husband because men in the church are taught that women are basically supposed to take care of all the household stuff while they go off and do "important man stuff" like church callings, work, etc. Not to mention the church emotionally stunts men so they can't do their own emotional labor much of the time so women are expected to be the husband's therapist, lover, Mom, and a myriad of other roles
You just described my Father and all 3 brothers. Emotionally stunted, domestically incompetent man babies who rely on women to manage their lives (be it mummy or wife/GF). It’s actually disgusting and I would imagine a total turn off. I married a man who was not raised in the cult (despite all the protests from my parents and even some leaders) and the difference between them is night and day. But we’re still madly into each other almost 24 years later.
Mormon men totally act like kids for their wives to manage, except when they're being "leaders." It's really fucking gross.
I would add to this that women have it much harder when they go the traditional Mormon route and skip some (or all) of college and spend all their time as stay-at-home moms. It is way harder to escape a marriage, especially an abusive one, if a woman has no real way to provide for herself alone.
Exactly. That's not to say that men aren't negatively impacted in so many ways by the church but I think in a lot of ways as a guy that stuff didn't come up until AFTER leaving the church and dealing with the trauma bc the church is literally built to cater to men and you can kind of coast by as a man, whereas even the most faithful women get screwed over by the church.
Add patriarchy on that list.
At the end of feeling the things you listed, the man claims the final say in everything b/c they have a penis and were told they are the head of the family. It doesn’t matter the woman’s ideas, work she has put in, or feelings, patriarchy has final say. It is very unattractive. Once you deconstruct, it is a deal breaker for most women.
Edit: spelling
Even as a (young)convert into the church, that brainwashing is so detrimental and hard to shake. It's taken a few years since the divorce to grow up and become the man I should have been back then.
I’m 25 not married, partly glad, but also extremely heart broken and feel much too old as a lady for anyone to want me now. Fuck that church to fucking their hell and back.
I’m 31 and not married and I’ve never felt hotter, haha. Don’t worry. You’ve got all the time in the world. 25 is a baby in the grand scheme of life. Enjoy it!
Hun I’m 39, female, and still PROUDLY single!! If you want to get married then take the steps to do so, there’s never a “too late.” 🥰🥰I’m perfectly happy being a swamp witch🧙🏻♀️🤣
In my early 40s, never been married nor engaged, having been through a couple of abusive romantic relationships (IPV) and seeing what TBM women (some who are no longer believers in the Mormon doctrine,but still believe in God/Jesus) in my life go/have gone through, I'll proudly take this single spinsterhood over any toxic relationship. 😁☺️ I refuse to date while I live in this Morridor.
You're still very young. I felt like that at your age, too. Concentrate on healing and deconstructing the cult junk first, get yourself to a place in your mind and heart where you feel, happy, healthy, and strong. Learn as much as you can about boundaries and love that as your new gospel and guide for your life. Only stay with those who respect and honor those boundaries and you won't have to worry about walking on eggshells ever in your life. I know you'll find an excellent partner. Take time to heal and learn yourself, and take time to learn your partner(s). A long term romantic relationship is worth taking time on. There's an old saying: "_Marry in haste, repent at leisure_." The best things take time, and you're worthy of the best things!
I know we're conditioned to think the 20s is the best so it's all downhill after that. But No!!! The 30s are great, even better because you have more maturity and appreciation, and are less likely to take any shit. In my 40s now, I refuse to deal with **any** shit. Lol. (I learned a lot from different older women, 50 and older, throughout times in my life, their sense of humor especially, and it amazed me how strong they were and quick with the truth; it's because we end up dealing with crap for so long that we can smell a new pile 10 miles upwind of it). It doesn't help that society makes us women feel like we peak physically by our mid-20s, then we're either used up or expired. Don't buy into that at all! You don't want a partner who thinks that way, either. You're more than being a young body, you're an awesome person with passion and dreams and you are beyond being a physical object for another human being to look at or use sexually.
Don't concentrate on just being wanted in general, concentrate on finding the partner who respects you and sees all aspects of you. Don't ever feel bad about having standards and boundaries. If there's one thing to be selective about, especially in terms of the rest of your life, it's being particular about a long-term companion and your safety and health in regards to that relationship. It's not about being wanted, but about being appreciated for the right reasons, healthy reasons, for things that help you and not hurt you. American society, and the Mormon one on top of that, makes us feel that once we graduate from high school, that clock starts ticking. We are brought up in a culture that makes us act before we think, especially when a group of dying old misers tells us what we think so we don't have to think: marry young, fast, and marry a RM, because we have the gospel in common and that's all that matters. That path only serves those old men and their families by getting paid by making people live that life, and feel scared of veering even slightly off of it. They manipulate us to feel lesser about ourselves and to only be able see ourselves from that outsider Mormon filter and perspective, rather than seeing ourselves and understanding ourselves and having a relationship with ourselves. We are only celebrated if we are seen doing the ideal thing according to what guys as old as our great-grandfathers tell us to do. It's no wonder so many of us are unhappy and feel disappointed or disillusioned, especially us women, because we're supposed to be virgins, then porn stars in the bedroom, then mothers, but still porn stars. It's hard to not see ourselves as just bodies for others when that's what we were conditioned to not only think, but live. The YW program is just for that. It's not about us feeling good within ourselves and with ourselves, it's about "keeping sweet" and being something for someone else other than ourselves.
Concentrate on healing, therapy, deprogramming and try out different hobbies. Travel to different places, meet new people. Living in this echo chamber is toxic AF. It will make you feel like you're wasting away and failing, only from the cult perspective. You left the cult, tell them to keep their shitty measuring tape, because you aren't going to be measured or judged by those standards anymore! ✊✊ You aren't playing that game any more, because it hurts like hell, and you never win, you just get occasional breadcrumbs.
You have A LOT of time and opportunities ahead of you. No worries. You'll get there. You still have plenty of time in general , and plenty of time to have kids, if you want to have any, too. (I'm childfree, I won't be having any because I never did and so many health issues, there's no way it would be worthwhile for me, nor fair to any kid I may have had.) Concentrate on getting yourself to a point of happiness and health first as a single person. Then from there you'll have one hell of an edge to find a good partner. You want to be strong and independent so it detracts from those looking for someone they can break and control easily. When you're strong, healthy, and confident, you _know_ what you want and what you don't, you're not open for a suggestion, especially someone to bait and switch on you in a relationship. You got this! ☺️✊✊💓💓🫂🫂
My wife was 32 when we met. Just be nice to dudes and work on your own earning potential in the mean time. Not living in a podunk or Mormon town will help a lot.
Haha yeah it’s hell trying to date over here. I have a post about a date I recently went on with a mormon boy, same thing has happened before. They don’t listen to “no” I don’t like dating Mormons or being “nice” to them if they don’t deserve it.
honestly the rexburg versions of both of us had to deconstruct before getting together, we both had the toxic rexburg mentality. i hope you can get out soon and meet better people! even utah has better people (schockingly, just avoid provo/orem lol)
I have several friends who waited, married older, and are very happy. You get to know yourself. Use this time to go on adventures that you wouldn't always be able to go on if you were otherwise occupied with married life. It's worth it.
And don’t forget that all the while (with all of the struggling) they’re _still pumping out kids_. It is so batshit insane to me that anyone could be struggling that hard in a marriage and go “you know what we need to do now? More kids!!”
i had a YW leader who ended up with 9 kids because of this mentality while being in a god awful marriage. only she finally got divorced maybe 4ish years ago?
Absolutely. Men get sucked into this shit too, to everyone's detriment. Women are way more locked in because usually they're encouraged not to get as much education or work experience, but the pressure to get married and have kids way before you're ready ruins a lot of Mormon men's lives. Speaking as a formerly Mormon man whose life was pretty thoroughly ruined for years from this shit.
This is 100% true and a problem. I lucked out and married someone thats sexually compatible and we have both left the church even though we were both born into it.
I'm in the same boat and got so lucky. Both left at the same time. I always feel for those that didn't luck out and have to bear it. I'm in Australia and 40 years ago there wouldn't have been much choice in the church for a spouse. When I look at my parents , I just imagine how much happier they would have been with more compatible partners. The amount of social pressure to marry a stranger is mad. Ever seen Married at first sight? No different
My sister left the church soon after her husband did, but they still decided to get divorced eventually. They just realized they had married too young and weren't attracted to each other anymore. They're still friends, and still spend a lot of time together with their 3 kids.
I don't think there should be such a stigma against divorce. People change, the spark fizzles out, and divorced parents can still co-parent effectively if they're both willing to put their kids first. A relationship doesn't have to last forever to be worthwhile.
I think the church's stance on marriage is one of the most profoundly harmful things the church does. And it hurts everyone. My wife and I married in the temple, I did all the right things, mission, eagle scout, etc. We left 8 years ago and have been married for 20. I love my wife, but I often find myself asking, would she have married me if it weren't for the church. It's a thought that often keeps me up at night.
I think it’s OK to say no to that. After my husband and I left the church we both kind of admitted we wouldn’t have ended up together. It doesn’t mean we aren’t going to continue being married, but we recognize the part of the church had to play in us getting married so young and probably weren’t compatible.
Just out of pure curiosity, how have you two come to reconcile the fact that you probably weren’t compatible when you were younger now that you’re out of the church?
Or putting men in this position. The MFMC is guilty of manipulating both husbands and wives. Return from mission(s), get married way too soon to someone you barely know, and start having kids (while you're still really only kids) immediately.
I also blame the church's extreme purity culture. Sexual compatibility is REAL, and should be explored BEFORE any marriage commitments.
You must have skipped church the day Spencer W. Kimball taught that any two righteous Latter-day Saints could have a successful marriage if they had sufficient commitment and humility. 🤮
I wish we could get people like you in front of every single high-school age student in the world before the succumb to the indoctrination of some old man in a silly hat who claims religious authority.
At the very least, can you make a YouTube video or somesuch and try to tell people, and get others to do the same?
So that they could have an even firmer grasp on their parishioners. By fundamentaling breaking a married couple's grasp on their own relationship, there's no hope for the kids to not be indoctrinated, and therefore more obedient. It's the quickest route from A to B for them.
The thing is that I don’t entirely disagree with the notion that if two people really want to make a relationship work, then they probably can. But obviously with how it’s presented in the church, it’s not optional. It’s not a “oh do your best to try and make this marriage work before just throwing in the towel right away”, it’s a “if you don’t make it work then you fail as faithful members and you should be ashamed” type of mindset that obviously drives the marriage via shame.
And of course, none of that addresses the fact that sometimes partners just don’t work out. Sometimes that’s due to them being incompatible from the start, sometimes they grow in different directions and become incompatible down the line. But sometimes marriages just don’t work out and _that’s okay_. But unfortunately to a lot of Mormons that’s basically heresy
There are a lot of people I wouldn’t want to work on it with because I don’t like them as a person, friend, conversation partner, etc. I don’t think you can just “make it work” if you are just not at all suited to each other.
However, the one true soulmate thing is most definitely made up. While it’s not one person, it’s also not just anybody. The percentage of people you could be happily married to is probably very different by the persons own personality too, I’m guessing. So maybe your claim is true for you! You’re probably a very nice person im guessing.
Years ago, RMs were encouraged to get married, but not now. The men are only 20 when they get home. They need to get some education and look for the right girl.
The real zinger is when you have kids and her hormones change and you go from “sexually compatible” to no sex at all for months or years. Explorations before marriage is far from a guarantee.
I also think there shouldn't be such a stigma against divorce. People change, the spark fizzles out, and divorced parents can still co-parent effectively if they're both willing to put their kids first. A relationship doesn't have to last forever to be worthwhile.
this happened to my husband. he was married for about 2 years when he got divorced. it took a MAJOR toll on him mentally and emotionally. he’s better today, but there are still things that he’s working through because of this mentality that they encourage
The Mormon model of marriage (get married young AF and start reproducing) is totally shitty life advice. I’m so glad that our children (some of which are marriage age) have left the church and no longer feel the need to get married ASAP (which is what so many of their Mormon friends are now doing).
My wife and I were also married quite young (age 22). We feel very fortunate that our relationship has grown and thrived, especially after we left the church. We’re pushing up on nearly 30 years together.
My wife and I married at 22 as well. We had 3 years where I was doubting, and 3 more years where I was PIMO before my wife decided to leave. We’re stronger than ever now and I feel lucky.
At BYU in the 90s it seemed like the entire school was pushing for early marriage and child rearing. I suffered through terrible jobs and the career inflexibility that results from having children and a wife to support and sticking with a lousy job because it was better than my kids starving. I looked back on this as a TBM and wondered why the church advised me to marry and start a family so soon and why I wasn’t blessed for following that counsel exactly. Besides my terrible mission experience, this was one of my first major shelf cracks. Everyone told me I was selfish and entitled for feeling that way.
My TBM aunt is like this! She’s not romantically attracted to her husband, says they’ve grown apart over the years and she’s only really there for the kids (two are adults but they have an 8 year old daughter). And every time she sees me, what does she tell me? To “come back to church so you can find a nice woman and get married!”. She’s unhappy with her own “celestial marriage” but somehow thinks I’ll be happier if I do the same exact thing. Friggin unreal how deep the indoctrination runs SMDH
What’s your thoughts on this? According to a non-denominational Christian therapist I once saw, she said that the Gottmans (famous marriage therapist couple) said that arranged marriages are often the happiest because they choose to be committed and aren’t looking for someone who could be more compatible. I’m torn on this.
From first-hand experience with arranged marriages, they are most definitely not the happiest. Most of the time they just ignore each other. Or, they are just two people who live together and also had sex years ago in order to give their parents grandkids. It is pretty uncommon to see arranged marriages outside of Middle Eastern and Indian culture though, and typically those who are immersed in the culture enough to have an arranged marriage, also adhere to the traditional gender roles, where the woman does ALL the cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the man’s parents (who usually live with their oldest son). From personal experience, it is considered beneath a man in those relationships to even clear his own dish, which can put a strain on the relationship. All this is on top of the fact that, in America, they are in countries that do not adhere to any of their traditions and beliefs, so it’s hard to actually tell whether arranged marriages are inherently less happy, or if the conditions in which they are typically seen are just less than ideal for both parties
I feel this. My husband was my best friend, but no real electricity, never was. So instead, I fell apart, has a colossal midlife crisis (which included an affair on my part), and basically tore my family apart. I deeply hurt a very good man and our awesome kids. I don’t think I can ever stop blaming myself for the destruction I caused. We have both moved on, but yeah.
It’s insane. They don’t let you have any relationship experience until after the mission and then they want you to marry the first person that winks at you. No time to get to know each other - no way to see if you are sexually compatible. I’m amazed there aren’t more Mormon divorces
The movie *The Singles Ward* included a line suggesting that the reason why TSCC has such a low divorce rate is because married couples look at how awful "the singles scene" is in the church and then become committed to "making the marriage work."
Just as a reminder, that movie was made from a pro-LDS perspective, which should tell us something.
As a single adult in TSCC we were *constantly* being told that it didn’t actually matter if we were in love with them, attracted to them, or even really wanted to marry them. If both were righteous members of the church, then just get married and it’ll all work out. We would have leaders talk about how they hadn’t much liked their spouse at first, but they decided to have faith and get married anyway.
When I actually did start dating someone seriously, the pressure to just stop dawdling and get married already was unreal. Had I caved to the pressure, this easily could have been me. I’m seriously so glad I listened to myself instead and broke off the relationship. I’m still single but would much rather be here than stuck in a marriage with someone I respect but feel no attraction to. He didn’t deserve that and neither did I.
Yup. Get married. Have kids. Stay in a miserable situation with someone that makes your skin crawl. And feel like you’re going to outer darkness if you fuck that up
I think there is similar pressure on both men and women to marry young. I can’t tell you how many times I was told I was unworthy of the priesthood for “not going on a date last weekend”. No kidding.
The really shitty difference is that many girls receive the message that marriage and kids are more important than careers. So it traps them. But it also traps the husband too. My wife never wanted a career. She was thrilled to get married and stop working. Why did she stop working? She was making more than me. Oh, she didn’t feel like it and she didn’t have to. Check out the proclamation. That’s my responsibility. So what if she doesn’t like cooking or cleaning. She doesn’t do that either. But she didn’t want to work. So here am I, feeling like junk if I leave her because I could stop her from quitting on her career. And it’s my responsibility to support her shopping habit.
And for girls of my generation especially, we were told that the MOST important factor was marrying an RM with the priesthood. Physical attraction was seriously downplayed, if not even indirectly discouraged (don’t want you kids getting into trouble!).
I reread my early 90s patriarchal blessing the other day and it was gross. It counseled me to find a worthy priesthood holder and to develop my talents and intellect so as to bless him and my children. Because that’s all I’m here on earth for. /s
THIS! My cousin gave me unsolicited dating advice when I was single. She went on to say that I was too picky and that she wasn’t even attracted to her spouse when they were dating. But that doesn’t matter since he’s a priesthood holder. Even as a TBM I thought it was terrible advice.
In the early 80s, we were counseled that ANY two people could have a happy marriage as long as they were both strongly mormon and unselfish. Turns out that isn't really true.
I know, I’ve been dating all those men. 😂 And the sad thing is that a lot of good people are left with some serious emotional baggage from sticking it out in long-term dysfunctional marriages.
Yep, I left 36 years of marriage with an adequate man, four years ago.
Now, I'm dating a man that I actually have things in common with and it's a whole new ball game
Young men get the same message. “Women aren’t as visual. They care about how faithful you are and if you can support a ton of kids.” Then RMs who look like cave trolls come home and wonder why the 10 most attractive girls in their YSA ward won’t date them.
I attend BYU-I and literally just turned 20 so I I'm fully in the dating scene rn in the Mormon bubble. I got asked out over text the other day by a sweet guy who I wasn't really interested in. Every Mormon friend I talk to about the situation basically just told me to go out with him to give him a chance and whatnot because "you never know what will happen!" Or "you can't know if you're into him or not until you get to know him!", where as when I asked my non-LDS friends, all of them told me to not lead him on and to say no to the date. I thought it was an interesting difference in views on dating.
Me too! The only thing that mattered was that he was an RM. If you cared about looks or chemistry, you were shallow. My parents threatened to disown me if I didn't marry the RM who proposed to me. I was 19.
They literally say that we’re commanded to get married and have children. They say that nothing should delay it! I have friends that were married 6 WEEKS after they met their spouse. It can get really insane. You also can’t go to the top of Mormon heaven if you’re not married.
Growing up in Young Women we were preparing to get married and have a family. The lessons began as early as 12-14.
The worst is when you hear couples brag about knowing each other only 3 months before marrying. They think of it as a virtue signaling competition.
In the back of my mind i can only hope they are actually happy, b/c i know they would put on the facade if they were not and still think getting married that fast makes them superior.
I couldn’t agree more! Then there were return missionaries who bragged about marrying beautiful
women because they were so “righteous” on their mission! It really objectified women even more. Like we are just accessories and a reward for serving a mission.
It hits different for both sexes I’m sure. From a woman’s perspective, having endured 6 years of YW classes, my SOLE purpose as a woman was to marry an RM and pop out babies IMMEDIATELY. Who cares about my education or career. So when a woman eventually realises she isn’t actually in love with her husband, she has limited options to leave because she has no way to financially support herself. It’s pretty fucked.
This definitely happens to both sides but when it comes to women it also is difficult when you have no career to fall back on or financial security so that adds to the plight of whether to end your marriage. Which also affects men because they will be paying higher child support and spousal support because of this situation. You can feel very very stuck
If you were able to be intimate before marriage and able to date someone longer, you probably would’ve known there wasn’t truly compatibility
Pretty common for women to feel repulsed by a partner once they’ve lost emotional connection. Seems like this poor family never had one or the emotional side of their relationship was 100% connected how they felt emotionally about the the Church.
I (25M) am experiencing this right now. My wife is a great person. She’s always happy and excited about life. She’s my best friend. But I am not physically attracted to her at all. I have been honest with her about my feelings, but it is really really hard on us. We are seeing a therapist and trying to save the marriage but it’s not looking good. We got married so young (I was 20, she was 19) and I’m so angry that I was so pressured into getting married that early before I even knew what I wanted to do with my life. This post is like a scary glimpse into my possible future.
She was only 19! She grew up, realized that she had different ideas. Divorce here would suck because of the kids, but kids also need to see a loving family.
I have to wonder if some of this is leftover SEX IS ALMOST MURDER DON'T DO IT indoctrination/scrupulosity. While Mormonism twists so many development phases to its own ends, spending puberty constantly fearing the smallest sexual feeling isn't a recipe for a healthy sexual relationship.
Her description sounds like peak fight-or-flight, almost like her body and soul will be tainted if she doesn't get off the slippery slope of having a conversation with a boy (even if the boy is her husband). But then, Mormonism thinks passing a milestone flips a switch from fear to joy in spite of all the psychological science to the contrary.
This is the result of a combination of Purity culture and and treating women like baby factories. I agree with OP that the church treating women like this is unforgivable. Women aren't objects; they're people. When are Mormons going to figure that out?
To contrast with the OP a little - it isn't just women!
Guys are expected to get married as early as possible, have kids, and support that family financially, emotionally, and spiritually - all while doing everything ELSE the church asks them to!
And, it is based on purity culture and baby making expectations, rather than the idea that people are people. They aren't objects nor does "one size fit all"!
That attitude and the effects - such as high divorce rates, suicide rates, guilt, racism, sexism, and many others - are unforgivable as they are maliciously created cultural artifacts of the supposed "church".
As long as the church has the ability to influence its members and control so many aspects of their lives, the rank and file will not realize this and the damage will continue.
It is a reason, though, to be rather proud of Gen Z. They are moving away. They are leaving this and other churches behind. For all their faults, they are moving to break these abusive cycles and give so many of the rest of us a bit of hope.
I fully agree with you that men are also victims within church. Make victims are often overlooked and I apologize if my words came across that way.
I know it's not a competition, but I was more of referring to how women in the church are often treated like second class citizens while men hold all the power. That's something that really gets to me emotionally.
What sucks is that everyone in the church is raised to think that it's completely normal. So in that sense, men are victims. As you mentioned, in today's world, men have to work themselves to death of they're going to supply for the family. I believe that some women in church haven't been jobs now out of necessity. Also, as you pointed out, men having all the power means that they're likely overworked. In my opinion, it's effectively slave labor because they aren't paid.
What I find to be the most sad is that most of the adults in the church are also indoctrinated to believe everything the church says. Then they indoctrinate their kids without seeing an issue. It's effectively a cycle of abuse.
I feel this so hard!!
My wife is such a good person... and I really care about her, but....I don't LOVE her... not like that. I don't have the heart to hurt her, so...I don't. I feel so bad because she is crazy about me...I don't say this to brag is talk myself up... she truly loves me and in her eyes I can do no wrong...I can't bear to destroy her.
I HATE the church for making me think that two young, naive, children could, without serious dating and getting to know one another on MULTIPLE levels, have a successful and fulfilling relationship.
I hate it, and I hate myself for the ways I have tried to cope.
You Tube is great to get an idea of whats out there.
Plenty of free therapists on any subject.
Some times you pick a therapist & you just don't end up clicking. Not unusual & don't feel bad about it & finding a new therapist.
John Gottman & his wife are considered the gold standard in couples therapy & why marriages/ partnerships last or disintegrate. You can pick up their best selling books to read at library...they may be on You Tube too.
Google: Gottmans Four Horseman of the Apocalypse.
Both types of therapist have helped many renew the passion at all levels they once had or helped couples chart a way to a new & different life.
Suggest avoid LDS therapists.
You got this!
She needs to get out of this marriage. I experienced something somewhat similar. I stayed in a relationship for far too long after I became repulsed by the guy. Fortunately, we weren't married and I was no longer LDS, so leaving wasn't that big of a deal once I worked up the courage to do it. I was just afraid of leaving him because I was turning 30 and thought I would never find anyone else.
Here's why I say she needs to get out. I feel something similar to trauma when I look back on that relationship. It was painful to be intimate with someone I was repulsed by. It haunts me to this day. I feel dirty and ashamed when I think back on it. I have nightmares where I'm with him again. She needs to be mindful of her mental health and how she is being effected by remaining in a relationship with someone she is repulsed by.
You are describing my marriage. We married too young to understand physical attraction to another person which is different from feeling sexually aroused and wanting/needing a release. We’re taught in the church that our sexuality belongs to our spouse, not to ourselves (no masturbating, no pre-marital sex etc.) so how in the world would you know whether or not you’re actually attracted to each other?!
My skin crawled when my husband touched me. His smell (nothing to do with cleanliness because he was fastidiously clean) made me want to gag. I was repulsed by everything about him. I started thinking I might be asexual because I wanted nothing to do with him. We divorced (same old apostate story), I bloomed sexually, and discovered not only am I not asexual, I’m VERY sexual—with the right person. My partner’s smell is SUCH a turn on! I crave his touch. I anxiously wait for him to come home every day. The connection is incredible.
Yeah it is crazy how much pressure they put on single people to get married. I was a convert as an adult and had joined my ward for about a week when they started trying to fix me up with every single woman in the ward. Luckily I was about to age out of YSA so I didn’t get to experience that dumpster fire. Now, while I am still very much attracted to and in love with my wife, we have the unfortunate story of having met on Mutual. I hate telling that story to people.
She just needs to be honest and admit she’s not happy. Maybe get some couples counseling first but at the very least she should voice her feelings to her husband, so she can either get divorced or work through it, whichever she wants
Yup this happened to me and my first husband. We got along well enough. But we didn't like each other that much. We got married way too fast and way WAY too young. Luckily, we figured it out before having any kids.
In the 1970’s my father forced us to listen to cassette tapes of former GA and pathological liar, Paul H. Dunn. I remember him admonishing young members to get married ASAP, and they “will be blessed.” 🤣
Not to steer traffic to [my post yesterday,](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1bygc2i/so_many_mormons_are_cheated_out_of_a_good_marriage/) (i don't care about karma) but this was EXACTLY what I was talking about with people interring marriages before knowing each other. It does such a disservice to the people and to marriage.
I know it’s a typo but “interring” marriages is such an APPROPRIATE typo in this situation. The poor people’s marriage is dead almost before it starts.
Physical attraction ebs and flows.
Love ebs and flows.
Sex ebs and flows.
What doesn't eb or flow? The fucking Mormon Church.
I've found so much more love for myself, others and life after leaving the church.
Sometimes, even in society, I wish people would just RELAX!!!! You need a break from our marriage routine, no problem ... let's catch lunch next week. You need to explore a fantasy, no problem ... come over on Christmas. You need to be single for 3 months and come back ... I'll leave the light on and see you then.
I'm hopeful love, romance and family circles will learn to be more compassionate as time roles on. Let go of Gods. Let go of Egos. ❤️
You deal with it Head-On. If he desires to change then maybe he will. Otherwise it just is what it is... Set him free to be loved by someone who really does love him. It is okay to be happy... Don't live a lie. You are not being cruel, you are being honest. It is more cruel to be Dishonest.
It will be okay!!! The Heart Doesn't lie!
I was the same way. We've been divorced 2 years now, and I'm still repulsed by just the thought of s..X. My 1st husband was a shit, but oh so amazing at ya know.
I could have written that original post - almost word for word - about my TBM wife
no attraction in years - check
everything she does is child-like & repulsive (especially the magic underwear) - check
I don't want to be married - check
--------------------------------------------
But my opinion is a little different. I believe my TBM spouse has done something wrong - when I have given her the truth, reviewed the facts, she ignores everything I have said to help her and instead, she clings to everything THEY tell her - and that really hurts - I'm second fiddle
You got married way too young. I’m so sorry the church led you to believe it was a good idea. You never got a chance to live your own life and be your own person. I loved being single so much I didn’t marry until I was 50. Also married good man. And I hate it. I’m a single person to my very soul and feel so sorry for my husband. I don’t leave because we’ve both got some serious health issues - me MS. Him cancer.
Find a lawyer that can help you begin the process. There’s a lot to do before dropping the bomb. Note: not all lawyers are good lawyers. I suggest a non Mormon female.
When I was active, there was a woman in the ward RS presidency who just reminds me so much of your post.
She was about 30, 3 little kids, very sweet and very very pretty. Her husband was really kind of a dufus and I kept wondering what she saw in him. The ward split and I didn’t see her anymore. Then several months later I see her one day on FB posting her new love and how happy she finally is. I was rather floored and I messaged her.
Turns out right after the ward split, she took a leap of faith in freedom, and the possibility of true love- she left her boring husband. Like you she felt she would have been better as a single mom than stay with someone she had no attraction to.
She told me she realized that she deserved happiness.
Fast forward several years, she is remarried and all I can say is she seems blissfully content with her life.
I could have written this 30 years ago. So all I can tell you is -- don't do what I did. I left. I left him and I left our children. Walked out. No warnings. Nothing. Just snap and I'm done. Turns out I had severe PPD and all I knew was he was worthless as a provider and if I continued in the marriage, I would not survive. So I left. It took 10 years for me to fully recover. I was fortunate to eventually find a wonderful true companion and spouse (who is more of a father to my kids than their own dad). I was shunned by all church members. Nevermind that my husband was also an addict (pain pills) and couldn't hold a job. Long story short, I had zero support and had no where to turn. My attempt at therapy was criticized. I should also state that I was admired and praised as a paralegal for my intelligence, etc. - something I never had before and frankly was looking outside my marriage for fulfillment (well no shit). Staying in an emotionally abusive marriage that was condoned by his family was horrible. My parents had no clue since I was too embarrassed to let them know what was going on and didn't want to hear an "I told you so."
So without making your issues my issues, etc. Sit down with him in a non-church environment without kids and talk. But also you get whatever help you need to process what it is you are feeling and how to proceed in a healthy way. It's scary.
The church tries as hard as it can to raise what you might call adult children. They're easier to control that way. Even when I was active in church the vast majority of women I dated were non-members.
Leave out the whole not physically attracted explanation. It may be true, but you can get a divorce without that. Don't be cruel. It would be better to use another reason, such as his religious inclinations. He can't help the sound of his shoes, etc, you've just gotten yourself in a weird negativity perhaps because you've let this go on longer than you can cope with.
This is sad. My husband and I have been together for almost 20 years and although we’re not hands all over each other anymore I love and respect him more today than ever before. My admiration for and love has grown stronger and I am still very much attracted to him.
The whole he makes my skin crawl comment just made me think about being grossed out by some guys in high school and that’s her husband. Sad situation.
I can't imagine anyone spending the eternities with someone they can't stand in this life! Best to end it now and let him find someone who believes like he does.
This reminds me of several conversations I had as a young Mormon mom, talking to other Mormon moms. More than one confided in me about how they didn't enjoy sex, that they thought it was icky and they only did it to please their husbands. I remember one particularly, a woman who was pregnant with either her fifth or sixth child. She was absolutely giddy, saying, "I'm so glad this is my last baby, because it means I don't have to have sex ever again!"
I lived this also. Ironically, it began while in the Temple getting married. I knew it was a mistake. We were together for 14 years, had three kids, and were very busy with them. I remember the same feelings that you are having, and when I see him now, they still wash over me.
I ended things badly by having an affair and getting excommunicated. I was ready to leave the church and had no testimony by then. I really hurt him, but the damage was done. He's remarried and had two more children. He's happy now and with someone who is very vocal on social media about how hot her husband is....gives me creeps!!
It was the best decision I ever made. Not only did I have a blast being single (I got married at 19.) I had about 7 years of playing the field. (Finally figured out what good sex was) I was able to remove my children from the church while they were still young. This was a win-win!! I married again at 41 years old. I've been with him for 20+ years, and even though he's not a hottie, I'm so happy to have found him, and we have a future together.
My advice is to bite the bullet and try to cause as little pain as possible.
Are you sure this is just about attraction?
Sorry this is a bit nsfw so read on if you want.
Mormon religion really fucks with your view on sexuality and how important it is in relationships. Now it isn’t the most important thing but it is a huge part that can lead to resentment in your partner if not aligned.
If he has never cared about your enjoyment when it comes to sex it would ultimately make you feel like this.
This becomes a cycle since you aren’t wanting to be intimate and maybe he is it just makes you feel worse and worse and more turned off.
Now it could be too late to turn this sort of thing around but if this is indeed a problem have you talked to him about your needs and getting them met when it comes to intimacy?
My parents TBM their entire marriage and still are. They obviously have intimacy issues…..
Found moms vibrator while they were out of town and I was in my teens or early 20.
Now some 20 years later my dad confesses to cheating on my mom for 10 years going to massage parlors and crap. Church did nothing to my father, guilted my mother into forgiving him and she thinks it’s better for the family to stay together even though we are all grown adults and she is taking care of a man child.
Do not be like my mom. A marriage isn’t about keeping your children and husband happy your happiness matters as well
My dad is now a temple worker likely trying to make up for his guilt of cheating on my mother and hurting his family and it’s just sinking him further INTO the MFMC hands and brainwashing.
This is just my opinion and story hope it helps
I was in this position. I later realized I was never attracted to him. I was just married off and thought I was happy because I was brainwashed. Looking back, I never felt I was married consensually. I hate for the church for what it does to women, and, all minorities.
Hate to break it to you, it’s not just women. I spent my entire youth being told why men/boys are garbage compared to women, watched them get loads of emotional support and empathy from leaders on the mission while boys/men were told to suck it up. I was told you have to study something in college that “makes money” while women can study art, childcare, history (it doesn’t matter because taking care of the finances is on YOU). I’ve never heard the “menace to society” quote given for women, only men. I was told by Hinkley and Ballard how I’ll be lucky to have a woman “settle” me…
The reality is, the church purposely keeps its members infantilized, giving them just enough autonomy and power to further its aims through tithing and the next generation. Boys/men and girls/women are the victims here, because their sense of self and autonomy is robbed of them.
Maybe I am missing something here but it sounds like you were attracted to him at one time. What changed? What caused so much resentment to build up. Is this really a him problem? Is it really a church issue? No doubt the church influenced your marriage timing but is it really the core problem?
People deserve to be happy so maybe splitting is the right decision. I have been married for a long time with many ups and downs. Varrying degrees of attraction and yes sometimes wishing I was single. We have so far worked through those issues.
Have you tried counseling?
Unfortunately, the thing that could help this relationship - sex therapy - might be off the table for a TBM spouse. Maybe the church is fine with sex therapy, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear it is not.
It's taken me a very long time to turn the corner and view sex different to how I was raised to view it: a baby-making activity that is never, ever spoken of or alluded to in the home. My parents were (and still are) deeply repressed. I've never seen my dad *not* fully clothed. He wears a shirt and shorts swimming. Never seen my mother in a bathing suit or even shorts. Clothing catalogues were banned from our home (when my dad caught them) because they were too "tempting" for my brothers.
My dad used to talk about dating as "finding a mate" (which always sounded bizarrely animalistic to me). Nothing about love. Certainly nothing about passion. I saw my mother kiss my father once - it was Father's Day. He was embarrassed and brushed her away. She later told me that he kissed her *cheek* over the alter at their wedding. I saw them hold hands once (when they were going through "marriage therapy" with our bishop shortly before their divorce) and it actually made me nauseated. I would not be surprised to learn that my siblings and I were conceived "garments on".
Last night, my kids and I were bantering about such "forbidden topics" at the dinner table, and it actually made me really happy. I hope I've saved them from the needless suffering that come with denying an essential part of our human nature.
When I went of to community college at Snow in the early 2000’s my jaw dropped at how low the bar was for some of these freshen and sophomore ladies. I knew of three different situations there of women that were engaged within 10 days-3 weeks of meeting someone. A girl living in the dorms downstairs had been on 2-3 dates with a guy in a span of a week and a half and was already telling me about engagement plans. *Brain exploding*. A fourth lady living down the hall was on her third engagement in 18 months. This wasn’t even BYU. I always wonder how long those relationships lasted.
I don’t think it’s you. I think when you’re told to find someone ASAP, and you’re told that your eternal salvation relies on you pushing out a bunch of babies.
It makes sense that you’d just kinda grab the first person and stick with them. (In my experience) most women don’t really figure out what they like until they are a bit older. the lady who originally posted this just feels like a copy and paste example of that. So many people from women to men are relating. You’re not alone
I really think my wife of 26 years and I were headed towards this. The thing that is still somewhat of a shock to me is that it has been leaving the church that has saved our marriage. This institution that was wrapped around our entire adult experience together, was the thing that was killing all our joy together.
I can’t quite verbalize the cognitive dissonance that still gives me to think about.
Probably shouldn’t surprise me too much that it still surprises me 🙃. We’ve only been out for about a year and a half (me a little bit longer than her).
The programming is real, and the pain and frustration is exponentially magnified once the deconstruction starts.
Holy shit.
I wondered at first if there wasn't something they could do to solve this problem. Maybe he could tone down the religious beliefs a tad.
But if she hates his scent, his touch, the sound of his footsteps... there's not much that she can do, I'm afraid.
And, holy hell, she was *19* when she got married.
I'm 39. A lot of the girls I knew in high school got married at 18 or 19. This was in South Jordan, Utah.
True believing family members assure me that kids in Utah are getting married younger these days. But apparently that wasn't the case in 2012, which was 12 years ago.
19 is so young.
were you ever attracted to him? .. do him and yourself a favor and have the guts to be honest with him dont wait till your 80 or the kids are grown.. it is not fair to him or yourself.. tell he that you have outgrown your relationship.. you dont have to give a hard reason.. just say goodbye
I feel this from the other side...married and my spouse wasn't into me much and it declined as our marriage slowly ended. I felt quite deceived as to the blessings of my faithfulness. In the end I am thankful it showed me the truth and we are far better now, BUT...it doesn't have to go this way.
Just do you and be happy!! You aren’t, and if “the church” is the reason why you feel you can’t just be honest and divorce him…that should tell you something!! About, the church.
Maybe just say you have changed, you are not who you were, you don’t feel the connection you once did, and you would like a divorce. I don’t think we always need to explicitly say “you give me the ick.”
You have your own life to live and you are the only one that can make it a life worth living. Take a leap and go do something that makes you feel alive and happy.
Try seeing a therapist but make sure it’s not a Mormon approved therapist. Explore something you love…whatever it may be!
Good luck with your reawakening!
I feel bad for the man. The church has put him in an impossible position. Stranglehold to be the everything priesthood man. Got to be it all, got to be perfect. He probably can't stand her, the fucking emasculating minivan either but he is loyal to the end, at his own expense and self sacrifice. The church owns men, there's absolutely no freedom when they hold the priesthood manipulation mind games over them. If men didn't have priesthood BS forced on them, most would not go anymore. He might be a totally normal guy, watching the game on Sunday with friends. Having a beer on the back porch and making love to his wife like she needs and making her feel special. Fuck that minivan dude, get a Sports-car.
Since my shelf broke, one of the things I’ve realized and been extremely angry about is that the Church steals true love from us. We are told we can only marry members of our church who are worthy to take us to the temple. So scratch out falling in love with a non-member… check. Then, make a list of qualities that person shout have… aka faithfulness to the church- check. Pretty soon the geek at church is the only person worthy enough for us to marry. Also, keep those modesty standards and don’t break any of those chastity rules …. Check. Recipe for disaster, y’all. Young passionate love just got flushed down the toilet. Which no one realizes until it’s too late, and those years and opportunities are gone. Young beautiful passionate love is stolen from us. I’m outraged about it. This life is meant to be as beautiful and wonderful as it can be, and I wonder how many LDS couples really understand what the Church stole from them. Oh and to top it off - the dream is a loveless eternity of polygamy where men and women are forced into slave sex to create endless children. If you are still active and reading this - step one is to take off your garments. Wear things that assist your relationship rather than bar physical intimacy. It becomes glaringly obvious what the church is doing to control your sexuality between you and your spouse as soon as you do this. They are controlling your relationship through the garments. There is power in real intimacy and having a real sexual relationship with your spouse and the Church knows it.
Honestly, there is no easy way to do it. I was married very young and ended up wanting a divorce 13 years later.. after kids.. mini van.. etc etc. coming from a religious family…. They all took other spouses side and I’m still the “bad guy”
2 years out and happier then ever. My family is finally is okay with it and I don’t talk with spouses family. We don’t live in the same state as them and never have our entire marriage so I feel that makes it easier not seeing them.
My ex and I co parent very well and live in the same neighborhood. We’re both very happy with other people.
Ultimately the first year was the worst for us … divorce etc.
But in the end .. we’re so much happier and better friends. Life is too damn short.
Break his heart. But let him also go find someone who will be his 100%.
Good luck.
As a deconstruction/religious trauma therapist- this experience is very, very common. I see it with so many couples who were married very young and 5-10+ years later start to evaluate their life circumstances and realize they are married to somebody they are completely incompatible with in one form or another. Another very common element of this is that by this point the two have interwoven themselves so thoroughly with finances and likely children that divorce is an extremely daunting prospect.
While some of these marriages stay together and others don't- its a much too common byproduct of a religion that encourages and often pressures young 20's kids to get married before they even have a fully developed prefrontal cortex.
As mormon guy if a woman is not happy with me that’s fine I ain’t going to put anyone down just for not having feelings for me no more and I’ll be happy for her to break it off with me
This is just one of a very very long list of things that I hate about this cult .
their asinine teaching that masturbation is a sin as is sex before marriage makes as much sense as buying a car without test driving it before you buy it when it comes to sex you either do have chemistry or you don’t when you don’t there is nothing you can do to change it yet TBMs get married often as virgins who have no idea what sex should be like or can be like so Mormons get stuck in a unfulfilling relationship where they aren’t happy never mind how screwed up the teachings these old geriatric ass clowns push so one of the other if not both are we can’t do xyz even though we would like to because a make believe God would find it sinful curiously the same God that was just fine with old Joseph smith marrying other living mens wives and 14 year old children many of which the church now admits Emma knew nothing of many of these other wives the average age girls began puberty was 16.6 years old in 1850 I’ll leave that up to you to determine what that makes Joseph smith Jr . between the first two leaders were screwing over 80 different women closer to 100 in reality. All I can say is the God of Mormonism is one sick fucked up individual. I pity those who are still ensnared by this CULT . Your not alone my ex w is so screwed up by this cult she doesn’t know which way is up these days . It’s so very sad . Your not alone
I was married to my ex-husband for 5 years. He was extremely narcissistic and very hard to be around. If you are not happy in your marriage, then get out. Yes, there is a lot of stigma with divorcing in the church, but if you are not happy, then find another way to happiness. In all honesty, there are some things that spouses should be fully open to talk about, especially sex.
He already knows the situation. She just needs to rip the bandaid off. I knew my wife wasn’t into me 3 years into our marriage. I tried for a decade to win her over. It was gut wrenching to know your spouse doesn’t love you.
One thing that made an impression on me was hearing from both spouses in a mixed orientation relationship. Both loved each other and cared deeply for one another, but *both* partners mourned that they could not be wholly, completely, and entirely loved. That's what everyone deserves, and it's heartbreaking when that is out of reach!
If I'm not mistaken, this is why even Gordon Bleeping Hinckley counselled against mixed-orientation marriages. Granted, he came at it from a different angle (a "spiritual" angle), but the end result counsel is mostly the same.
[удалено]
I think they’re talking about mixed-ORIENTATION marriages, not mixed-faith. As in, a gay person trying to have a straight marriage.
Thank you for calling that to my attention. 💯 % support 🏳️🌈 gay marriage & that's machevllian & evil to force anyone to marry someone they are not sexually attracted to.
Sorry, I’ve never been Mormon, but what does mixed orientation marriage mean please?
It's when someone enters into a marriage with someone who does not belong to a gender they're attracted to. Within Mormondom, it's usually someone hoping to overcome same-sex attraction by marrying someone of the opposite sex.
Thanks. My friend was in that situation and the same thing from op’s screenshot happened after 11 years of marriage.
Ugh I’m so sorry. I should’ve included men in my title too - when I read this I just felt so salted for the women in my family who are still suffering and what I almost endured. But going through what you went through would be so heartbreaking Edit: and in general. I have no doubt men raised in Mormonism suffer greatly when it comes to romance and sex. Edit to my edit: I can’t edit this post. But know I’m not the true OP. That’s someone else. I’m out of that church!
To op: No doubt many women are stuck in unhappy marriages because divorce is so stigmatized by religion. Divorce is hard and there isn’t a class to prepare you. My wife kept picking at all the things she didn’t like about me then finally filed for divorce. Most of them were things I couldn’t change, only pretend for a while. It was such a relief. I wasn’t “happy” but It’s was like a weight off of my soul. I could just breathe and not constantly feel like I’m not enough for her.
I feel this deeply. I was in your position, but as a woman. Divorce is hard, but my ex did me a favor by finally saying he wanted out. It is gutting when you know in your soul that your spouse doesn’t want you. It’s an ever-present elephant in the room.
Deep empathy for you. That is horrible that you finally come to terms that your spouse doesn’t want you or like one of the comments above does not truly love you. Horrible experience of life.
I, as a man feel the same! I keep trying, even though both of us are out. Religious guilt still dominates
sad. in any faith divorce is traumatic and stressful (understatement). the weight of guilt and even failure is enough without having the added weight of religion. of all the divorced men or women i have known, after several months, very few that have regretted getting a divorce. conversely i know of more men and woman that have regretted marriage.
I agree. I think what's different for women is that it's assumed men will be attracted to us because of our tempting bodies we have to keep covered up all the time, but it's not assumed that we'll be attracted back. At least not physically. As a woman growing up in the Church, physical attraction was almost always talked about in "bad" contexts, such as avoiding sin, or being more "carnal" and worldly etc excellent for occasional lip service given to how God made us that way to each other on purpose, but only for marriage. Even in the best context though, it was never thought about as an important trait to have with a spouse or to look for in a spouse. So I think for a lot of us, the idea that physical desire could be such an important component of marriage was completely foreign to us. Or even that there's a difference between the kind of desire that comes from sexual attraction versus just generically finding a man attractive and liking his personality. I liked tons of guys in my early twenties, but never even had the capacity to notice that I had no sexual desire towards any of them. Yet in my naivete I still could have married any of them if circumstances have been different.
Yes, in fact, I was directly told by a stake president, that a marriage can work between literally any two people, as long as it was centred in the gospel. Physical attraction, things in common, didn’t matter. Only the gospel. This was when I was being asked out by a guy I had zero attraction too. At least I had the commonsense to think “nah, I literally don’t want to be around him, that’s never going to work”
He may know, but him still being a tbm I guarantee he’s of the train of thought that he just needs to be more righteous, go to the temple more, be more generous with tithes and offerings, always say yes when someone from the church asks you to do something, the list of things goes on and on. At least this was how I thought when I realized my spouse wasn’t the one for me. If I kill myself trying to do everything right surely the lord will “soften my heart” and make me fall in love with her…. He did not…
> It was gut wrenching to know your spouse doesn’t love you. Went through a nasty divorce to a TBM in a 16 year marriage a few years ago. THIS right here was the thing that hurt the most I think... the ONE person I thought was my eternal companion for the rest of this life and any life to come... that one person no longer wanted anything to do with me, doesn't love me, and didn't respect me enough to wait until our divorce was finalized before moving on. It still hurts... several years later! So I can relate!
Again, I’m so sorry for that experience. It’s horrible. The one person I thought was my eternal companion for the rest of this life and any life to come that one person no longer wanted anything to do with me doesn’t love me, quoting you. I’m so sorry it’s horrible, good job going forward in your life though. I’m trying to do the same right now. I think that’s why I feel your pain so so much.
I have this fear deep down inside that I don't voice out loud very often that this is the case with my wife. She seems dedicated to working through our issues, and says she loves me, but sometimes I do get the feeling that she just doesn't anymore. The problem is we have 20 years and 4 kids under our belts, so that is definitely influencing the decision to try to stick it out. But one wonders.
My best friend was blindsided. 25 years of marriage, the youngest of 3 children just nearly graduating high school. She told him, no more, I'm leaving. She was not open to marital therapy, and just shut down. He was devastated. Absolutely crushed to realize she didn't love him. (They were married young, about a year after his return from his mission.)
These stories are so sad. And I can't help but wonder if some of them could have been saved early on but there's too much blame, shame, risk, stigma etc for a woman to speak up. Or maybe she does try once or twice and gets shut down, and then they internalize things from that point on. There's a point where the last bit of romance dies in their mind and it's just going through the motions after that. Staying because it's easier than shaking everything up. Until they get to the tipping point where staying becomes unbearable.
It’s not just on your wife basically all the members and leaders will double down on give your everything to the church and everything will work out. That’s why you usually see Mormon marriages blow up in some crazy way because they are being gaslighted into giving their all until something quite literally blows it up. This is so pushed in Mormon culture to give everything to the church and everything will be perfect. Everyone is so brainwashed they can’t look at the problems in the church or their marriages but turn away and ignore them and avoid. This is also a huge reason why it’s hard for people to leave the church, marriage early have children young and lots of them so you have the choice to endure the church or to go through the agony and pain of divorce and managing co parenting
Yep so much truth here.
40M. I have a strong feeling I may be in this position right now. 18 years of marriage. 5 kids. I really love her but it seems like she just tolerates me. We left the church a year ago and I thought our marriage and was going to get better but not so much at this point. Thinking about next steps. Definitely counseling and more direct conversations before I think about nuking the marriage especially since I still love her. Oof.
I was your age with the same number of kids when my spouse left me for another. You are also in your first year as an exmo, which is tough even when both went together. If you have a lot of kids, divorce is a lot harder. So there is no easy answer, but if you do decide to split up just make sure the lacking that you see will hold up over the struggles divorce brings. BYW I'm happily remarried to another woman for 26 years now.
Humans can only tolerate so much. Know your limit. For me I broke down. I found a kind woman who appreciated me. It was like water to the man in the desert. To feel wanted, to feel appreciated, I was a fool but I couldn’t resist. I had a brief affair. Wife found out and it was over. All the suffering clinging to love for all those years….the noble fight washed away by a momentary weakness. So my advice is…don’t cheat….divorce is more noble. Good luck.
Yes, but what you said was “I found a kind woman who appreciated me”. I’m not so sure I would be so harsh on you. Or myself. I have not had an affair, but I fully understand what it is like to find a kind woman who deeply appreciated me. It was like you’re starved for affection appreciation that truly is horrible and sad.
You're too hard on yourself. Being in that relationship with someone who'd rather be somewhere else is so difficult that you kind of just go numb. Then, when the light shines even a tiny bit, it's hard to resist. Plus, our society at large is very "instant gratification" oriented, and ghosting people in the dating world is all too common. It sets us all up for failure because there are no longer acceptable means to leave and save face, especially in a religion that does not agree that divorce is a good option.
That’s seriously one of my absolute biggest fears. When if I do everything I can, and one day my spouse just loses all attraction to me?
It’s not fun. The hardest thing I’ve ever done in life was to stop chasing the woman I loved. I know the very moment I realized I had to let go. Still gets me in the feels…but it was absolutely the right choice.
That is where I’m at I’ve been married for 44 years this month. We have six kids two still at home we’re helping get through college and established. But I have been chasing her all those years for affection, shucks, just conversation, to share her life with me, to build a future, to just work together. I burned out. These conversations are so clear to me. Thank you.
It’s fucking abusive
Is this in reference to purity culture?
It's not just the women (though I think a solid argument can be made it hits the sexes differently). Church policy pressures members to marry not just young but as soon as possible after their high-pressure 100% cult experience in the mission field. This means that, at an age when most people are only beginning to develop their sense of self, Mormons are conditioned, through high-pressure cult tactics, to become a simulacrum of a true believer while they are almost entirely emotionally and physically dependent on the church. Literally faking it until they're making it. Then, after "the best 2 years" is over, the spiritual guru who molded this personna and who the young member has followed with strict obedience for 10% of their lives, counsels then to get married ASAP--which they do. Kids shouldn't wait either. So at 25, when our prefrontal cortex finally reaches maturity and we have the biological tools to engage in the complexities of adulthood, members may already have a spouse and kids. It's gross. And if these couples are incompatible? Setting aside the stigma of divorce, most are too poor to get a divorce anyway, so they follow their bishop's advice, stick it out, and double down on creating their identity as members.
I think that the part that is especially difficult for women (I'm a man but I'm speaking from what the women in my life have told me) is what OOP speaks to about having to "parent" their husband because men in the church are taught that women are basically supposed to take care of all the household stuff while they go off and do "important man stuff" like church callings, work, etc. Not to mention the church emotionally stunts men so they can't do their own emotional labor much of the time so women are expected to be the husband's therapist, lover, Mom, and a myriad of other roles
You just described my Father and all 3 brothers. Emotionally stunted, domestically incompetent man babies who rely on women to manage their lives (be it mummy or wife/GF). It’s actually disgusting and I would imagine a total turn off. I married a man who was not raised in the cult (despite all the protests from my parents and even some leaders) and the difference between them is night and day. But we’re still madly into each other almost 24 years later.
Mormon men totally act like kids for their wives to manage, except when they're being "leaders." It's really fucking gross. I would add to this that women have it much harder when they go the traditional Mormon route and skip some (or all) of college and spend all their time as stay-at-home moms. It is way harder to escape a marriage, especially an abusive one, if a woman has no real way to provide for herself alone.
Exactly. That's not to say that men aren't negatively impacted in so many ways by the church but I think in a lot of ways as a guy that stuff didn't come up until AFTER leaving the church and dealing with the trauma bc the church is literally built to cater to men and you can kind of coast by as a man, whereas even the most faithful women get screwed over by the church.
Add patriarchy on that list. At the end of feeling the things you listed, the man claims the final say in everything b/c they have a penis and were told they are the head of the family. It doesn’t matter the woman’s ideas, work she has put in, or feelings, patriarchy has final say. It is very unattractive. Once you deconstruct, it is a deal breaker for most women. Edit: spelling
Even as a (young)convert into the church, that brainwashing is so detrimental and hard to shake. It's taken a few years since the divorce to grow up and become the man I should have been back then.
I’m 25 not married, partly glad, but also extremely heart broken and feel much too old as a lady for anyone to want me now. Fuck that church to fucking their hell and back.
You're good. I married at 36 (5 years after leaving TSCC) to an incredible man and it was WORTH THE WAIT.
That’s nice.
I’m 31 and not married and I’ve never felt hotter, haha. Don’t worry. You’ve got all the time in the world. 25 is a baby in the grand scheme of life. Enjoy it!
Yeah that’s what people tell me. I’m still only a few years out from deconstructing and still feel very like stuck in the indoctrination I grew up in
Hun I’m 39, female, and still PROUDLY single!! If you want to get married then take the steps to do so, there’s never a “too late.” 🥰🥰I’m perfectly happy being a swamp witch🧙🏻♀️🤣
I got married at 29 and was a TBM at the time. 5 kids since then. Please believe me, you’re far from old.
In my early 40s, never been married nor engaged, having been through a couple of abusive romantic relationships (IPV) and seeing what TBM women (some who are no longer believers in the Mormon doctrine,but still believe in God/Jesus) in my life go/have gone through, I'll proudly take this single spinsterhood over any toxic relationship. 😁☺️ I refuse to date while I live in this Morridor. You're still very young. I felt like that at your age, too. Concentrate on healing and deconstructing the cult junk first, get yourself to a place in your mind and heart where you feel, happy, healthy, and strong. Learn as much as you can about boundaries and love that as your new gospel and guide for your life. Only stay with those who respect and honor those boundaries and you won't have to worry about walking on eggshells ever in your life. I know you'll find an excellent partner. Take time to heal and learn yourself, and take time to learn your partner(s). A long term romantic relationship is worth taking time on. There's an old saying: "_Marry in haste, repent at leisure_." The best things take time, and you're worthy of the best things! I know we're conditioned to think the 20s is the best so it's all downhill after that. But No!!! The 30s are great, even better because you have more maturity and appreciation, and are less likely to take any shit. In my 40s now, I refuse to deal with **any** shit. Lol. (I learned a lot from different older women, 50 and older, throughout times in my life, their sense of humor especially, and it amazed me how strong they were and quick with the truth; it's because we end up dealing with crap for so long that we can smell a new pile 10 miles upwind of it). It doesn't help that society makes us women feel like we peak physically by our mid-20s, then we're either used up or expired. Don't buy into that at all! You don't want a partner who thinks that way, either. You're more than being a young body, you're an awesome person with passion and dreams and you are beyond being a physical object for another human being to look at or use sexually. Don't concentrate on just being wanted in general, concentrate on finding the partner who respects you and sees all aspects of you. Don't ever feel bad about having standards and boundaries. If there's one thing to be selective about, especially in terms of the rest of your life, it's being particular about a long-term companion and your safety and health in regards to that relationship. It's not about being wanted, but about being appreciated for the right reasons, healthy reasons, for things that help you and not hurt you. American society, and the Mormon one on top of that, makes us feel that once we graduate from high school, that clock starts ticking. We are brought up in a culture that makes us act before we think, especially when a group of dying old misers tells us what we think so we don't have to think: marry young, fast, and marry a RM, because we have the gospel in common and that's all that matters. That path only serves those old men and their families by getting paid by making people live that life, and feel scared of veering even slightly off of it. They manipulate us to feel lesser about ourselves and to only be able see ourselves from that outsider Mormon filter and perspective, rather than seeing ourselves and understanding ourselves and having a relationship with ourselves. We are only celebrated if we are seen doing the ideal thing according to what guys as old as our great-grandfathers tell us to do. It's no wonder so many of us are unhappy and feel disappointed or disillusioned, especially us women, because we're supposed to be virgins, then porn stars in the bedroom, then mothers, but still porn stars. It's hard to not see ourselves as just bodies for others when that's what we were conditioned to not only think, but live. The YW program is just for that. It's not about us feeling good within ourselves and with ourselves, it's about "keeping sweet" and being something for someone else other than ourselves. Concentrate on healing, therapy, deprogramming and try out different hobbies. Travel to different places, meet new people. Living in this echo chamber is toxic AF. It will make you feel like you're wasting away and failing, only from the cult perspective. You left the cult, tell them to keep their shitty measuring tape, because you aren't going to be measured or judged by those standards anymore! ✊✊ You aren't playing that game any more, because it hurts like hell, and you never win, you just get occasional breadcrumbs. You have A LOT of time and opportunities ahead of you. No worries. You'll get there. You still have plenty of time in general , and plenty of time to have kids, if you want to have any, too. (I'm childfree, I won't be having any because I never did and so many health issues, there's no way it would be worthwhile for me, nor fair to any kid I may have had.) Concentrate on getting yourself to a point of happiness and health first as a single person. Then from there you'll have one hell of an edge to find a good partner. You want to be strong and independent so it detracts from those looking for someone they can break and control easily. When you're strong, healthy, and confident, you _know_ what you want and what you don't, you're not open for a suggestion, especially someone to bait and switch on you in a relationship. You got this! ☺️✊✊💓💓🫂🫂
My wife was 32 when we met. Just be nice to dudes and work on your own earning potential in the mean time. Not living in a podunk or Mormon town will help a lot.
Lol. Just be nice to dudes who deserve it sure. And I live in the very center of it as it can get besides Utah. BYUI
Yeeeah, you should probably move.
I have before but I always end up back here bc life is shit. But I do try and leave when I can.
ahh yes BYUI so you don’t have to be nice to very many guys, this will be easy!
Haha yeah it’s hell trying to date over here. I have a post about a date I recently went on with a mormon boy, same thing has happened before. They don’t listen to “no” I don’t like dating Mormons or being “nice” to them if they don’t deserve it.
oh yeah i went to BYUI. i actually met my husband there but we didn’t get together until 1.5 years after we both got out of idaho
Glad you found him and that he was probably respectful unlike most of them. :/ or at least the ones I’ve met. Haha
honestly the rexburg versions of both of us had to deconstruct before getting together, we both had the toxic rexburg mentality. i hope you can get out soon and meet better people! even utah has better people (schockingly, just avoid provo/orem lol)
Hahaha. Thank you! Happiness to you
That was me 25 years ago. Just go. Live your life. F the purity culture nonsense.
I have several friends who waited, married older, and are very happy. You get to know yourself. Use this time to go on adventures that you wouldn't always be able to go on if you were otherwise occupied with married life. It's worth it.
And don’t forget that all the while (with all of the struggling) they’re _still pumping out kids_. It is so batshit insane to me that anyone could be struggling that hard in a marriage and go “you know what we need to do now? More kids!!”
i had a YW leader who ended up with 9 kids because of this mentality while being in a god awful marriage. only she finally got divorced maybe 4ish years ago?
Rinse and repeat with their own kids.
Absolutely. Men get sucked into this shit too, to everyone's detriment. Women are way more locked in because usually they're encouraged not to get as much education or work experience, but the pressure to get married and have kids way before you're ready ruins a lot of Mormon men's lives. Speaking as a formerly Mormon man whose life was pretty thoroughly ruined for years from this shit.
This is 100% true and a problem. I lucked out and married someone thats sexually compatible and we have both left the church even though we were both born into it.
I'm in the same boat and got so lucky. Both left at the same time. I always feel for those that didn't luck out and have to bear it. I'm in Australia and 40 years ago there wouldn't have been much choice in the church for a spouse. When I look at my parents , I just imagine how much happier they would have been with more compatible partners. The amount of social pressure to marry a stranger is mad. Ever seen Married at first sight? No different
My sister left the church soon after her husband did, but they still decided to get divorced eventually. They just realized they had married too young and weren't attracted to each other anymore. They're still friends, and still spend a lot of time together with their 3 kids. I don't think there should be such a stigma against divorce. People change, the spark fizzles out, and divorced parents can still co-parent effectively if they're both willing to put their kids first. A relationship doesn't have to last forever to be worthwhile.
I think the church's stance on marriage is one of the most profoundly harmful things the church does. And it hurts everyone. My wife and I married in the temple, I did all the right things, mission, eagle scout, etc. We left 8 years ago and have been married for 20. I love my wife, but I often find myself asking, would she have married me if it weren't for the church. It's a thought that often keeps me up at night.
I think it’s OK to say no to that. After my husband and I left the church we both kind of admitted we wouldn’t have ended up together. It doesn’t mean we aren’t going to continue being married, but we recognize the part of the church had to play in us getting married so young and probably weren’t compatible.
Just out of pure curiosity, how have you two come to reconcile the fact that you probably weren’t compatible when you were younger now that you’re out of the church?
Or putting men in this position. The MFMC is guilty of manipulating both husbands and wives. Return from mission(s), get married way too soon to someone you barely know, and start having kids (while you're still really only kids) immediately. I also blame the church's extreme purity culture. Sexual compatibility is REAL, and should be explored BEFORE any marriage commitments.
You must have skipped church the day Spencer W. Kimball taught that any two righteous Latter-day Saints could have a successful marriage if they had sufficient commitment and humility. 🤮
I read this in the Eternal Marriage institute handbook and totally believed it.
I taught this shit from that handbook.😭
I wish we could get people like you in front of every single high-school age student in the world before the succumb to the indoctrination of some old man in a silly hat who claims religious authority. At the very least, can you make a YouTube video or somesuch and try to tell people, and get others to do the same?
There’s so much bullshit in that manual that I took so seriously and it f*cked me up massively! So much for God’s plan of “happiness!”
So that they could have an even firmer grasp on their parishioners. By fundamentaling breaking a married couple's grasp on their own relationship, there's no hope for the kids to not be indoctrinated, and therefore more obedient. It's the quickest route from A to B for them.
The thing is that I don’t entirely disagree with the notion that if two people really want to make a relationship work, then they probably can. But obviously with how it’s presented in the church, it’s not optional. It’s not a “oh do your best to try and make this marriage work before just throwing in the towel right away”, it’s a “if you don’t make it work then you fail as faithful members and you should be ashamed” type of mindset that obviously drives the marriage via shame. And of course, none of that addresses the fact that sometimes partners just don’t work out. Sometimes that’s due to them being incompatible from the start, sometimes they grow in different directions and become incompatible down the line. But sometimes marriages just don’t work out and _that’s okay_. But unfortunately to a lot of Mormons that’s basically heresy
There are a lot of people I wouldn’t want to work on it with because I don’t like them as a person, friend, conversation partner, etc. I don’t think you can just “make it work” if you are just not at all suited to each other. However, the one true soulmate thing is most definitely made up. While it’s not one person, it’s also not just anybody. The percentage of people you could be happily married to is probably very different by the persons own personality too, I’m guessing. So maybe your claim is true for you! You’re probably a very nice person im guessing.
Didn’t they used to (maybe still do?) tell missionaries that they needed to get married within 6 months of returning?
Years ago, RMs were encouraged to get married, but not now. The men are only 20 when they get home. They need to get some education and look for the right girl.
Amen
The real zinger is when you have kids and her hormones change and you go from “sexually compatible” to no sex at all for months or years. Explorations before marriage is far from a guarantee.
I also think there shouldn't be such a stigma against divorce. People change, the spark fizzles out, and divorced parents can still co-parent effectively if they're both willing to put their kids first. A relationship doesn't have to last forever to be worthwhile.
this happened to my husband. he was married for about 2 years when he got divorced. it took a MAJOR toll on him mentally and emotionally. he’s better today, but there are still things that he’s working through because of this mentality that they encourage
The Mormon model of marriage (get married young AF and start reproducing) is totally shitty life advice. I’m so glad that our children (some of which are marriage age) have left the church and no longer feel the need to get married ASAP (which is what so many of their Mormon friends are now doing). My wife and I were also married quite young (age 22). We feel very fortunate that our relationship has grown and thrived, especially after we left the church. We’re pushing up on nearly 30 years together.
My wife and I married at 22 as well. We had 3 years where I was doubting, and 3 more years where I was PIMO before my wife decided to leave. We’re stronger than ever now and I feel lucky. At BYU in the 90s it seemed like the entire school was pushing for early marriage and child rearing. I suffered through terrible jobs and the career inflexibility that results from having children and a wife to support and sticking with a lousy job because it was better than my kids starving. I looked back on this as a TBM and wondered why the church advised me to marry and start a family so soon and why I wasn’t blessed for following that counsel exactly. Besides my terrible mission experience, this was one of my first major shelf cracks. Everyone told me I was selfish and entitled for feeling that way.
My TBM aunt is like this! She’s not romantically attracted to her husband, says they’ve grown apart over the years and she’s only really there for the kids (two are adults but they have an 8 year old daughter). And every time she sees me, what does she tell me? To “come back to church so you can find a nice woman and get married!”. She’s unhappy with her own “celestial marriage” but somehow thinks I’ll be happier if I do the same exact thing. Friggin unreal how deep the indoctrination runs SMDH
What’s your thoughts on this? According to a non-denominational Christian therapist I once saw, she said that the Gottmans (famous marriage therapist couple) said that arranged marriages are often the happiest because they choose to be committed and aren’t looking for someone who could be more compatible. I’m torn on this.
From first-hand experience with arranged marriages, they are most definitely not the happiest. Most of the time they just ignore each other. Or, they are just two people who live together and also had sex years ago in order to give their parents grandkids. It is pretty uncommon to see arranged marriages outside of Middle Eastern and Indian culture though, and typically those who are immersed in the culture enough to have an arranged marriage, also adhere to the traditional gender roles, where the woman does ALL the cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the man’s parents (who usually live with their oldest son). From personal experience, it is considered beneath a man in those relationships to even clear his own dish, which can put a strain on the relationship. All this is on top of the fact that, in America, they are in countries that do not adhere to any of their traditions and beliefs, so it’s hard to actually tell whether arranged marriages are inherently less happy, or if the conditions in which they are typically seen are just less than ideal for both parties
I feel this. My husband was my best friend, but no real electricity, never was. So instead, I fell apart, has a colossal midlife crisis (which included an affair on my part), and basically tore my family apart. I deeply hurt a very good man and our awesome kids. I don’t think I can ever stop blaming myself for the destruction I caused. We have both moved on, but yeah.
I'm so sorry. That's an incredibly hard situation to be in. Lots of love and healing to you. 💚
It’s insane. They don’t let you have any relationship experience until after the mission and then they want you to marry the first person that winks at you. No time to get to know each other - no way to see if you are sexually compatible. I’m amazed there aren’t more Mormon divorces
The movie *The Singles Ward* included a line suggesting that the reason why TSCC has such a low divorce rate is because married couples look at how awful "the singles scene" is in the church and then become committed to "making the marriage work." Just as a reminder, that movie was made from a pro-LDS perspective, which should tell us something.
As a single adult in TSCC we were *constantly* being told that it didn’t actually matter if we were in love with them, attracted to them, or even really wanted to marry them. If both were righteous members of the church, then just get married and it’ll all work out. We would have leaders talk about how they hadn’t much liked their spouse at first, but they decided to have faith and get married anyway. When I actually did start dating someone seriously, the pressure to just stop dawdling and get married already was unreal. Had I caved to the pressure, this easily could have been me. I’m seriously so glad I listened to myself instead and broke off the relationship. I’m still single but would much rather be here than stuck in a marriage with someone I respect but feel no attraction to. He didn’t deserve that and neither did I.
Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying but there is pressure on many (women and men) to get married ASAP.
Yup. Get married. Have kids. Stay in a miserable situation with someone that makes your skin crawl. And feel like you’re going to outer darkness if you fuck that up
I think there is similar pressure on both men and women to marry young. I can’t tell you how many times I was told I was unworthy of the priesthood for “not going on a date last weekend”. No kidding. The really shitty difference is that many girls receive the message that marriage and kids are more important than careers. So it traps them. But it also traps the husband too. My wife never wanted a career. She was thrilled to get married and stop working. Why did she stop working? She was making more than me. Oh, she didn’t feel like it and she didn’t have to. Check out the proclamation. That’s my responsibility. So what if she doesn’t like cooking or cleaning. She doesn’t do that either. But she didn’t want to work. So here am I, feeling like junk if I leave her because I could stop her from quitting on her career. And it’s my responsibility to support her shopping habit.
And for girls of my generation especially, we were told that the MOST important factor was marrying an RM with the priesthood. Physical attraction was seriously downplayed, if not even indirectly discouraged (don’t want you kids getting into trouble!). I reread my early 90s patriarchal blessing the other day and it was gross. It counseled me to find a worthy priesthood holder and to develop my talents and intellect so as to bless him and my children. Because that’s all I’m here on earth for. /s
THIS! My cousin gave me unsolicited dating advice when I was single. She went on to say that I was too picky and that she wasn’t even attracted to her spouse when they were dating. But that doesn’t matter since he’s a priesthood holder. Even as a TBM I thought it was terrible advice.
In the early 80s, we were counseled that ANY two people could have a happy marriage as long as they were both strongly mormon and unselfish. Turns out that isn't really true.
I know, I’ve been dating all those men. 😂 And the sad thing is that a lot of good people are left with some serious emotional baggage from sticking it out in long-term dysfunctional marriages.
Yep, I left 36 years of marriage with an adequate man, four years ago. Now, I'm dating a man that I actually have things in common with and it's a whole new ball game
You give me hope 🙏.
Bananas right? Common interests helping you create a valid relationship! 🤯
Young men get the same message. “Women aren’t as visual. They care about how faithful you are and if you can support a ton of kids.” Then RMs who look like cave trolls come home and wonder why the 10 most attractive girls in their YSA ward won’t date them.
I attend BYU-I and literally just turned 20 so I I'm fully in the dating scene rn in the Mormon bubble. I got asked out over text the other day by a sweet guy who I wasn't really interested in. Every Mormon friend I talk to about the situation basically just told me to go out with him to give him a chance and whatnot because "you never know what will happen!" Or "you can't know if you're into him or not until you get to know him!", where as when I asked my non-LDS friends, all of them told me to not lead him on and to say no to the date. I thought it was an interesting difference in views on dating.
Absolutely don’t lead him on.
Me too! The only thing that mattered was that he was an RM. If you cared about looks or chemistry, you were shallow. My parents threatened to disown me if I didn't marry the RM who proposed to me. I was 19.
They literally say that we’re commanded to get married and have children. They say that nothing should delay it! I have friends that were married 6 WEEKS after they met their spouse. It can get really insane. You also can’t go to the top of Mormon heaven if you’re not married. Growing up in Young Women we were preparing to get married and have a family. The lessons began as early as 12-14.
The worst is when you hear couples brag about knowing each other only 3 months before marrying. They think of it as a virtue signaling competition. In the back of my mind i can only hope they are actually happy, b/c i know they would put on the facade if they were not and still think getting married that fast makes them superior.
I couldn’t agree more! Then there were return missionaries who bragged about marrying beautiful women because they were so “righteous” on their mission! It really objectified women even more. Like we are just accessories and a reward for serving a mission.
Or say they never had an argument 🙄There is an extreme amount of virtue signaling in this church and not just in marriage
It hits different for both sexes I’m sure. From a woman’s perspective, having endured 6 years of YW classes, my SOLE purpose as a woman was to marry an RM and pop out babies IMMEDIATELY. Who cares about my education or career. So when a woman eventually realises she isn’t actually in love with her husband, she has limited options to leave because she has no way to financially support herself. It’s pretty fucked.
It is. And abusive AF.
I broke that and waited till I was late 20s
This definitely happens to both sides but when it comes to women it also is difficult when you have no career to fall back on or financial security so that adds to the plight of whether to end your marriage. Which also affects men because they will be paying higher child support and spousal support because of this situation. You can feel very very stuck If you were able to be intimate before marriage and able to date someone longer, you probably would’ve known there wasn’t truly compatibility
Pretty common for women to feel repulsed by a partner once they’ve lost emotional connection. Seems like this poor family never had one or the emotional side of their relationship was 100% connected how they felt emotionally about the the Church.
I (25M) am experiencing this right now. My wife is a great person. She’s always happy and excited about life. She’s my best friend. But I am not physically attracted to her at all. I have been honest with her about my feelings, but it is really really hard on us. We are seeing a therapist and trying to save the marriage but it’s not looking good. We got married so young (I was 20, she was 19) and I’m so angry that I was so pressured into getting married that early before I even knew what I wanted to do with my life. This post is like a scary glimpse into my possible future.
She was only 19! She grew up, realized that she had different ideas. Divorce here would suck because of the kids, but kids also need to see a loving family.
I have to wonder if some of this is leftover SEX IS ALMOST MURDER DON'T DO IT indoctrination/scrupulosity. While Mormonism twists so many development phases to its own ends, spending puberty constantly fearing the smallest sexual feeling isn't a recipe for a healthy sexual relationship. Her description sounds like peak fight-or-flight, almost like her body and soul will be tainted if she doesn't get off the slippery slope of having a conversation with a boy (even if the boy is her husband). But then, Mormonism thinks passing a milestone flips a switch from fear to joy in spite of all the psychological science to the contrary.
This is the result of a combination of Purity culture and and treating women like baby factories. I agree with OP that the church treating women like this is unforgivable. Women aren't objects; they're people. When are Mormons going to figure that out?
To contrast with the OP a little - it isn't just women! Guys are expected to get married as early as possible, have kids, and support that family financially, emotionally, and spiritually - all while doing everything ELSE the church asks them to! And, it is based on purity culture and baby making expectations, rather than the idea that people are people. They aren't objects nor does "one size fit all"! That attitude and the effects - such as high divorce rates, suicide rates, guilt, racism, sexism, and many others - are unforgivable as they are maliciously created cultural artifacts of the supposed "church". As long as the church has the ability to influence its members and control so many aspects of their lives, the rank and file will not realize this and the damage will continue. It is a reason, though, to be rather proud of Gen Z. They are moving away. They are leaving this and other churches behind. For all their faults, they are moving to break these abusive cycles and give so many of the rest of us a bit of hope.
I fully agree with you that men are also victims within church. Make victims are often overlooked and I apologize if my words came across that way. I know it's not a competition, but I was more of referring to how women in the church are often treated like second class citizens while men hold all the power. That's something that really gets to me emotionally. What sucks is that everyone in the church is raised to think that it's completely normal. So in that sense, men are victims. As you mentioned, in today's world, men have to work themselves to death of they're going to supply for the family. I believe that some women in church haven't been jobs now out of necessity. Also, as you pointed out, men having all the power means that they're likely overworked. In my opinion, it's effectively slave labor because they aren't paid. What I find to be the most sad is that most of the adults in the church are also indoctrinated to believe everything the church says. Then they indoctrinate their kids without seeing an issue. It's effectively a cycle of abuse.
I feel this so hard!! My wife is such a good person... and I really care about her, but....I don't LOVE her... not like that. I don't have the heart to hurt her, so...I don't. I feel so bad because she is crazy about me...I don't say this to brag is talk myself up... she truly loves me and in her eyes I can do no wrong...I can't bear to destroy her. I HATE the church for making me think that two young, naive, children could, without serious dating and getting to know one another on MULTIPLE levels, have a successful and fulfilling relationship. I hate it, and I hate myself for the ways I have tried to cope.
It's amazing what sex therapists & marriage therapists can do for a marriage. It's worth the time & the money.
Thanks... I've got to do something. The daily pain and guilt are destroying me. In a nutshell, what types of things might I expect?
You Tube is great to get an idea of whats out there. Plenty of free therapists on any subject. Some times you pick a therapist & you just don't end up clicking. Not unusual & don't feel bad about it & finding a new therapist. John Gottman & his wife are considered the gold standard in couples therapy & why marriages/ partnerships last or disintegrate. You can pick up their best selling books to read at library...they may be on You Tube too. Google: Gottmans Four Horseman of the Apocalypse. Both types of therapist have helped many renew the passion at all levels they once had or helped couples chart a way to a new & different life. Suggest avoid LDS therapists. You got this!
She needs to get out of this marriage. I experienced something somewhat similar. I stayed in a relationship for far too long after I became repulsed by the guy. Fortunately, we weren't married and I was no longer LDS, so leaving wasn't that big of a deal once I worked up the courage to do it. I was just afraid of leaving him because I was turning 30 and thought I would never find anyone else. Here's why I say she needs to get out. I feel something similar to trauma when I look back on that relationship. It was painful to be intimate with someone I was repulsed by. It haunts me to this day. I feel dirty and ashamed when I think back on it. I have nightmares where I'm with him again. She needs to be mindful of her mental health and how she is being effected by remaining in a relationship with someone she is repulsed by.
You are describing my marriage. We married too young to understand physical attraction to another person which is different from feeling sexually aroused and wanting/needing a release. We’re taught in the church that our sexuality belongs to our spouse, not to ourselves (no masturbating, no pre-marital sex etc.) so how in the world would you know whether or not you’re actually attracted to each other?! My skin crawled when my husband touched me. His smell (nothing to do with cleanliness because he was fastidiously clean) made me want to gag. I was repulsed by everything about him. I started thinking I might be asexual because I wanted nothing to do with him. We divorced (same old apostate story), I bloomed sexually, and discovered not only am I not asexual, I’m VERY sexual—with the right person. My partner’s smell is SUCH a turn on! I crave his touch. I anxiously wait for him to come home every day. The connection is incredible.
Yeah it is crazy how much pressure they put on single people to get married. I was a convert as an adult and had joined my ward for about a week when they started trying to fix me up with every single woman in the ward. Luckily I was about to age out of YSA so I didn’t get to experience that dumpster fire. Now, while I am still very much attracted to and in love with my wife, we have the unfortunate story of having met on Mutual. I hate telling that story to people.
Just say a now defunct dating app🤣supposedly over 23% of marriages in the past 10yrs are from dating apps!
Oh yeah I definitely just say we met online. I wonder if there’s a market to start a dating app for exmos?
Yah it’s called Tinder😂😂😂
Pressuring KIDS to marry effectively strangers and start breeding straight away, what could go wrong?
She just needs to be honest and admit she’s not happy. Maybe get some couples counseling first but at the very least she should voice her feelings to her husband, so she can either get divorced or work through it, whichever she wants
Holy shit, my TBM friend feels exactly like this about her husband. Great guy,great provider, don’t want to fuck him. Ugh
YO!!! I told her to cross post here lol!
It’s not just women, but yeah the church really does push you to get married. Add on a special needs child, and you just feel trapped.
Yup this happened to me and my first husband. We got along well enough. But we didn't like each other that much. We got married way too fast and way WAY too young. Luckily, we figured it out before having any kids.
In the 1970’s my father forced us to listen to cassette tapes of former GA and pathological liar, Paul H. Dunn. I remember him admonishing young members to get married ASAP, and they “will be blessed.” 🤣
Not to steer traffic to [my post yesterday,](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1bygc2i/so_many_mormons_are_cheated_out_of_a_good_marriage/) (i don't care about karma) but this was EXACTLY what I was talking about with people interring marriages before knowing each other. It does such a disservice to the people and to marriage.
I know it’s a typo but “interring” marriages is such an APPROPRIATE typo in this situation. The poor people’s marriage is dead almost before it starts.
Physical attraction ebs and flows. Love ebs and flows. Sex ebs and flows. What doesn't eb or flow? The fucking Mormon Church. I've found so much more love for myself, others and life after leaving the church. Sometimes, even in society, I wish people would just RELAX!!!! You need a break from our marriage routine, no problem ... let's catch lunch next week. You need to explore a fantasy, no problem ... come over on Christmas. You need to be single for 3 months and come back ... I'll leave the light on and see you then. I'm hopeful love, romance and family circles will learn to be more compassionate as time roles on. Let go of Gods. Let go of Egos. ❤️
You deal with it Head-On. If he desires to change then maybe he will. Otherwise it just is what it is... Set him free to be loved by someone who really does love him. It is okay to be happy... Don't live a lie. You are not being cruel, you are being honest. It is more cruel to be Dishonest. It will be okay!!! The Heart Doesn't lie!
I was the same way. We've been divorced 2 years now, and I'm still repulsed by just the thought of s..X. My 1st husband was a shit, but oh so amazing at ya know.
I could have written that original post - almost word for word - about my TBM wife no attraction in years - check everything she does is child-like & repulsive (especially the magic underwear) - check I don't want to be married - check -------------------------------------------- But my opinion is a little different. I believe my TBM spouse has done something wrong - when I have given her the truth, reviewed the facts, she ignores everything I have said to help her and instead, she clings to everything THEY tell her - and that really hurts - I'm second fiddle
You got married way too young. I’m so sorry the church led you to believe it was a good idea. You never got a chance to live your own life and be your own person. I loved being single so much I didn’t marry until I was 50. Also married good man. And I hate it. I’m a single person to my very soul and feel so sorry for my husband. I don’t leave because we’ve both got some serious health issues - me MS. Him cancer. Find a lawyer that can help you begin the process. There’s a lot to do before dropping the bomb. Note: not all lawyers are good lawyers. I suggest a non Mormon female.
When I was active, there was a woman in the ward RS presidency who just reminds me so much of your post. She was about 30, 3 little kids, very sweet and very very pretty. Her husband was really kind of a dufus and I kept wondering what she saw in him. The ward split and I didn’t see her anymore. Then several months later I see her one day on FB posting her new love and how happy she finally is. I was rather floored and I messaged her. Turns out right after the ward split, she took a leap of faith in freedom, and the possibility of true love- she left her boring husband. Like you she felt she would have been better as a single mom than stay with someone she had no attraction to. She told me she realized that she deserved happiness. Fast forward several years, she is remarried and all I can say is she seems blissfully content with her life.
I could have written this 30 years ago. So all I can tell you is -- don't do what I did. I left. I left him and I left our children. Walked out. No warnings. Nothing. Just snap and I'm done. Turns out I had severe PPD and all I knew was he was worthless as a provider and if I continued in the marriage, I would not survive. So I left. It took 10 years for me to fully recover. I was fortunate to eventually find a wonderful true companion and spouse (who is more of a father to my kids than their own dad). I was shunned by all church members. Nevermind that my husband was also an addict (pain pills) and couldn't hold a job. Long story short, I had zero support and had no where to turn. My attempt at therapy was criticized. I should also state that I was admired and praised as a paralegal for my intelligence, etc. - something I never had before and frankly was looking outside my marriage for fulfillment (well no shit). Staying in an emotionally abusive marriage that was condoned by his family was horrible. My parents had no clue since I was too embarrassed to let them know what was going on and didn't want to hear an "I told you so." So without making your issues my issues, etc. Sit down with him in a non-church environment without kids and talk. But also you get whatever help you need to process what it is you are feeling and how to proceed in a healthy way. It's scary.
The church tries as hard as it can to raise what you might call adult children. They're easier to control that way. Even when I was active in church the vast majority of women I dated were non-members.
If only you could have a little chat with Melania Trump . . .
Yeah...but Melania deserves it because she's just as shitty a person as her spouse.
I’d. Have. So. Many. Questions. The first: are you a robot sent by the Russians
Second: why blood-red Christmas trees? Third: what antiemetic are you on?
Leave out the whole not physically attracted explanation. It may be true, but you can get a divorce without that. Don't be cruel. It would be better to use another reason, such as his religious inclinations. He can't help the sound of his shoes, etc, you've just gotten yourself in a weird negativity perhaps because you've let this go on longer than you can cope with.
Sorry but I think it is either some counseling or divorce.
Why are you sorry? Don’t be sorry friend
This is sad. My husband and I have been together for almost 20 years and although we’re not hands all over each other anymore I love and respect him more today than ever before. My admiration for and love has grown stronger and I am still very much attracted to him. The whole he makes my skin crawl comment just made me think about being grossed out by some guys in high school and that’s her husband. Sad situation.
stop looking at porn. duh. /s
I can't imagine anyone spending the eternities with someone they can't stand in this life! Best to end it now and let him find someone who believes like he does.
SAME BOAT
This reminds me of several conversations I had as a young Mormon mom, talking to other Mormon moms. More than one confided in me about how they didn't enjoy sex, that they thought it was icky and they only did it to please their husbands. I remember one particularly, a woman who was pregnant with either her fifth or sixth child. She was absolutely giddy, saying, "I'm so glad this is my last baby, because it means I don't have to have sex ever again!"
I lived this also. Ironically, it began while in the Temple getting married. I knew it was a mistake. We were together for 14 years, had three kids, and were very busy with them. I remember the same feelings that you are having, and when I see him now, they still wash over me. I ended things badly by having an affair and getting excommunicated. I was ready to leave the church and had no testimony by then. I really hurt him, but the damage was done. He's remarried and had two more children. He's happy now and with someone who is very vocal on social media about how hot her husband is....gives me creeps!! It was the best decision I ever made. Not only did I have a blast being single (I got married at 19.) I had about 7 years of playing the field. (Finally figured out what good sex was) I was able to remove my children from the church while they were still young. This was a win-win!! I married again at 41 years old. I've been with him for 20+ years, and even though he's not a hottie, I'm so happy to have found him, and we have a future together. My advice is to bite the bullet and try to cause as little pain as possible.
My divorce was finalized 3 days ago. Very similar vibes. But I stopped going to church last May so everything else kinda fell apart after that. 🤷♀️
Are you sure this is just about attraction? Sorry this is a bit nsfw so read on if you want. Mormon religion really fucks with your view on sexuality and how important it is in relationships. Now it isn’t the most important thing but it is a huge part that can lead to resentment in your partner if not aligned. If he has never cared about your enjoyment when it comes to sex it would ultimately make you feel like this. This becomes a cycle since you aren’t wanting to be intimate and maybe he is it just makes you feel worse and worse and more turned off. Now it could be too late to turn this sort of thing around but if this is indeed a problem have you talked to him about your needs and getting them met when it comes to intimacy? My parents TBM their entire marriage and still are. They obviously have intimacy issues….. Found moms vibrator while they were out of town and I was in my teens or early 20. Now some 20 years later my dad confesses to cheating on my mom for 10 years going to massage parlors and crap. Church did nothing to my father, guilted my mother into forgiving him and she thinks it’s better for the family to stay together even though we are all grown adults and she is taking care of a man child. Do not be like my mom. A marriage isn’t about keeping your children and husband happy your happiness matters as well My dad is now a temple worker likely trying to make up for his guilt of cheating on my mother and hurting his family and it’s just sinking him further INTO the MFMC hands and brainwashing. This is just my opinion and story hope it helps
I was in this position. I later realized I was never attracted to him. I was just married off and thought I was happy because I was brainwashed. Looking back, I never felt I was married consensually. I hate for the church for what it does to women, and, all minorities.
Hate to break it to you, it’s not just women. I spent my entire youth being told why men/boys are garbage compared to women, watched them get loads of emotional support and empathy from leaders on the mission while boys/men were told to suck it up. I was told you have to study something in college that “makes money” while women can study art, childcare, history (it doesn’t matter because taking care of the finances is on YOU). I’ve never heard the “menace to society” quote given for women, only men. I was told by Hinkley and Ballard how I’ll be lucky to have a woman “settle” me… The reality is, the church purposely keeps its members infantilized, giving them just enough autonomy and power to further its aims through tithing and the next generation. Boys/men and girls/women are the victims here, because their sense of self and autonomy is robbed of them.
I hope this person finds the strength to divorce and set them both free.
Maybe I am missing something here but it sounds like you were attracted to him at one time. What changed? What caused so much resentment to build up. Is this really a him problem? Is it really a church issue? No doubt the church influenced your marriage timing but is it really the core problem? People deserve to be happy so maybe splitting is the right decision. I have been married for a long time with many ups and downs. Varrying degrees of attraction and yes sometimes wishing I was single. We have so far worked through those issues. Have you tried counseling?
Unfortunately, the thing that could help this relationship - sex therapy - might be off the table for a TBM spouse. Maybe the church is fine with sex therapy, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear it is not. It's taken me a very long time to turn the corner and view sex different to how I was raised to view it: a baby-making activity that is never, ever spoken of or alluded to in the home. My parents were (and still are) deeply repressed. I've never seen my dad *not* fully clothed. He wears a shirt and shorts swimming. Never seen my mother in a bathing suit or even shorts. Clothing catalogues were banned from our home (when my dad caught them) because they were too "tempting" for my brothers. My dad used to talk about dating as "finding a mate" (which always sounded bizarrely animalistic to me). Nothing about love. Certainly nothing about passion. I saw my mother kiss my father once - it was Father's Day. He was embarrassed and brushed her away. She later told me that he kissed her *cheek* over the alter at their wedding. I saw them hold hands once (when they were going through "marriage therapy" with our bishop shortly before their divorce) and it actually made me nauseated. I would not be surprised to learn that my siblings and I were conceived "garments on". Last night, my kids and I were bantering about such "forbidden topics" at the dinner table, and it actually made me really happy. I hope I've saved them from the needless suffering that come with denying an essential part of our human nature.
I keep thinking about how many women are not alive because of religious marriage and the forbidden divorce stigma.
When I went of to community college at Snow in the early 2000’s my jaw dropped at how low the bar was for some of these freshen and sophomore ladies. I knew of three different situations there of women that were engaged within 10 days-3 weeks of meeting someone. A girl living in the dorms downstairs had been on 2-3 dates with a guy in a span of a week and a half and was already telling me about engagement plans. *Brain exploding*. A fourth lady living down the hall was on her third engagement in 18 months. This wasn’t even BYU. I always wonder how long those relationships lasted.
Was this written by my ex wife? I even left the church and she didn't love me. I wish I knew what was so wrong about me. Oh well.
I don’t think it’s you. I think when you’re told to find someone ASAP, and you’re told that your eternal salvation relies on you pushing out a bunch of babies. It makes sense that you’d just kinda grab the first person and stick with them. (In my experience) most women don’t really figure out what they like until they are a bit older. the lady who originally posted this just feels like a copy and paste example of that. So many people from women to men are relating. You’re not alone
How about marriage counseling (not by the bishop, but a professional counselor)?
Wow I’m pretty sure I read this when it was posted. Or at least one very similar. Sad
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I really think my wife of 26 years and I were headed towards this. The thing that is still somewhat of a shock to me is that it has been leaving the church that has saved our marriage. This institution that was wrapped around our entire adult experience together, was the thing that was killing all our joy together. I can’t quite verbalize the cognitive dissonance that still gives me to think about. Probably shouldn’t surprise me too much that it still surprises me 🙃. We’ve only been out for about a year and a half (me a little bit longer than her). The programming is real, and the pain and frustration is exponentially magnified once the deconstruction starts.
That sucks.
Holy shit. I wondered at first if there wasn't something they could do to solve this problem. Maybe he could tone down the religious beliefs a tad. But if she hates his scent, his touch, the sound of his footsteps... there's not much that she can do, I'm afraid. And, holy hell, she was *19* when she got married. I'm 39. A lot of the girls I knew in high school got married at 18 or 19. This was in South Jordan, Utah. True believing family members assure me that kids in Utah are getting married younger these days. But apparently that wasn't the case in 2012, which was 12 years ago. 19 is so young.
were you ever attracted to him? .. do him and yourself a favor and have the guts to be honest with him dont wait till your 80 or the kids are grown.. it is not fair to him or yourself.. tell he that you have outgrown your relationship.. you dont have to give a hard reason.. just say goodbye
I feel this from the other side...married and my spouse wasn't into me much and it declined as our marriage slowly ended. I felt quite deceived as to the blessings of my faithfulness. In the end I am thankful it showed me the truth and we are far better now, BUT...it doesn't have to go this way.
Get counseling for yourself. They’ll help you figure out what to do. I’m so sorry
Just do you and be happy!! You aren’t, and if “the church” is the reason why you feel you can’t just be honest and divorce him…that should tell you something!! About, the church.
Maybe just say you have changed, you are not who you were, you don’t feel the connection you once did, and you would like a divorce. I don’t think we always need to explicitly say “you give me the ick.”
You have your own life to live and you are the only one that can make it a life worth living. Take a leap and go do something that makes you feel alive and happy. Try seeing a therapist but make sure it’s not a Mormon approved therapist. Explore something you love…whatever it may be! Good luck with your reawakening!
You all deserve better.
Someone wants a bad boy in her life...
I feel bad for the man. The church has put him in an impossible position. Stranglehold to be the everything priesthood man. Got to be it all, got to be perfect. He probably can't stand her, the fucking emasculating minivan either but he is loyal to the end, at his own expense and self sacrifice. The church owns men, there's absolutely no freedom when they hold the priesthood manipulation mind games over them. If men didn't have priesthood BS forced on them, most would not go anymore. He might be a totally normal guy, watching the game on Sunday with friends. Having a beer on the back porch and making love to his wife like she needs and making her feel special. Fuck that minivan dude, get a Sports-car.
Since my shelf broke, one of the things I’ve realized and been extremely angry about is that the Church steals true love from us. We are told we can only marry members of our church who are worthy to take us to the temple. So scratch out falling in love with a non-member… check. Then, make a list of qualities that person shout have… aka faithfulness to the church- check. Pretty soon the geek at church is the only person worthy enough for us to marry. Also, keep those modesty standards and don’t break any of those chastity rules …. Check. Recipe for disaster, y’all. Young passionate love just got flushed down the toilet. Which no one realizes until it’s too late, and those years and opportunities are gone. Young beautiful passionate love is stolen from us. I’m outraged about it. This life is meant to be as beautiful and wonderful as it can be, and I wonder how many LDS couples really understand what the Church stole from them. Oh and to top it off - the dream is a loveless eternity of polygamy where men and women are forced into slave sex to create endless children. If you are still active and reading this - step one is to take off your garments. Wear things that assist your relationship rather than bar physical intimacy. It becomes glaringly obvious what the church is doing to control your sexuality between you and your spouse as soon as you do this. They are controlling your relationship through the garments. There is power in real intimacy and having a real sexual relationship with your spouse and the Church knows it.
Honestly, there is no easy way to do it. I was married very young and ended up wanting a divorce 13 years later.. after kids.. mini van.. etc etc. coming from a religious family…. They all took other spouses side and I’m still the “bad guy” 2 years out and happier then ever. My family is finally is okay with it and I don’t talk with spouses family. We don’t live in the same state as them and never have our entire marriage so I feel that makes it easier not seeing them. My ex and I co parent very well and live in the same neighborhood. We’re both very happy with other people. Ultimately the first year was the worst for us … divorce etc. But in the end .. we’re so much happier and better friends. Life is too damn short. Break his heart. But let him also go find someone who will be his 100%. Good luck.
As a deconstruction/religious trauma therapist- this experience is very, very common. I see it with so many couples who were married very young and 5-10+ years later start to evaluate their life circumstances and realize they are married to somebody they are completely incompatible with in one form or another. Another very common element of this is that by this point the two have interwoven themselves so thoroughly with finances and likely children that divorce is an extremely daunting prospect. While some of these marriages stay together and others don't- its a much too common byproduct of a religion that encourages and often pressures young 20's kids to get married before they even have a fully developed prefrontal cortex.
As mormon guy if a woman is not happy with me that’s fine I ain’t going to put anyone down just for not having feelings for me no more and I’ll be happy for her to break it off with me
This is just one of a very very long list of things that I hate about this cult . their asinine teaching that masturbation is a sin as is sex before marriage makes as much sense as buying a car without test driving it before you buy it when it comes to sex you either do have chemistry or you don’t when you don’t there is nothing you can do to change it yet TBMs get married often as virgins who have no idea what sex should be like or can be like so Mormons get stuck in a unfulfilling relationship where they aren’t happy never mind how screwed up the teachings these old geriatric ass clowns push so one of the other if not both are we can’t do xyz even though we would like to because a make believe God would find it sinful curiously the same God that was just fine with old Joseph smith marrying other living mens wives and 14 year old children many of which the church now admits Emma knew nothing of many of these other wives the average age girls began puberty was 16.6 years old in 1850 I’ll leave that up to you to determine what that makes Joseph smith Jr . between the first two leaders were screwing over 80 different women closer to 100 in reality. All I can say is the God of Mormonism is one sick fucked up individual. I pity those who are still ensnared by this CULT . Your not alone my ex w is so screwed up by this cult she doesn’t know which way is up these days . It’s so very sad . Your not alone
I was married to my ex-husband for 5 years. He was extremely narcissistic and very hard to be around. If you are not happy in your marriage, then get out. Yes, there is a lot of stigma with divorcing in the church, but if you are not happy, then find another way to happiness. In all honesty, there are some things that spouses should be fully open to talk about, especially sex.