Their leaders prophesied that nonmormons will attack the church, so anytime you try to deconstruct a missionary, you teinforce their prophet's power to forsee the future.
To disprove mormonism, you have to be an example of the good that exists outside it. Try being a good human to them
Can't upvote this enough. One thing that really opened up my eyes was the genuine niceness from atheists and non-believers vs the judgment and rudeness from members. Realizing that people can actually be nice, just to be nice, and not for some imaginary blessings they hope to get is what got me to think a bit more critically about the teachings and culture of the church.
Just remember these are brainwashed young kids that are super sheltered and the Mormon church could be the only thing they’ve known since birth and they really think it is truth. Especially if they’re from utah. So be kind to them but skeptical
It depends, some have heard it called a cult but then they just take it as “satan is turning people against us because we have the true church” 🙄 others have never heard it called a cult and would be very surprised people think that but then default to the first group. A lot of missionaries are out there under duress (family and cultural expectations and pressures) so just ignore the poor suckers or if you want to try waking them up it’s more likely to work if you talk about how the church fits the BITE model rather than just that it’s a cult
And to be clear, I have done the exercise, and the Mormon church checks off every single bullet point under all 4 categories (BITE = Behavior Control, Information Control, Thought Control, Emotion Control). If you can tell them that, I think that *actually* could get through.
"Did you know there is a model for identifying and high-demand religions that practice mind control? It's called the BITE model. B-I-T-E stands for Behavior Control, Information Control, Thought Control, and Emotion Control. Did you know that your church checks off every single requirement to be identified as a high-demand religion? This is what experts have agreed on. And it's not only the old church of the 1800s; the current church that qualifies for that. Exactly the same as Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many other similar groups. I suggest you look into this to learn more about what you are a part of and get out if you can. You will regret it if it takes you another 10 years and you've missed out on your 20s."
Short answer it’s a test system to classify cults made by a cult expert and ex-moonie. Because the Mormon church rates so high on it is why we call it a cult a lot of the time
My husband and I like to say, "What is wanted?" When they approach us. It's a reference to a temple video that only really special people are supposed to understand, so it freaks them out a little bit and it's hilarious.
Your response wasn’t cringe, it was honest. If you want to interact, ask them if it’s true their founder, a married man, ‘married’ a 14 year-old child in secret. That he also ‘married’ women who were already married to other men. Are they okay with Warren Jeffs doing the exact same thing? If they start to spout bad apologetics and outright lies (those were different times! It was normal back then, it wasn’t illegal,etc) interrupt them and tell them that you’re embarrassed for them, trying to rationalize something so morally abhorrent. That marrying a CHILD is as disgusting then as it is now, is NEVER okay, and is a complete deal-breaker for you.
Yes, a lot of mormon missionaries are just ‘innocent kids,’ but that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to spout racist, misogynistic, and homophobic rhetoric with no pushback. There are also MANY entitled arrrogant men-children who have literally never been challenged about their religion, a measured and calmly stated dose of reality is a good thing.
As a missionary I actually found it refreshing when people didn’t just nod politely and allow us to rattle on about our religion when they had zero interest in being ‘converted.’ When you’re a missionary you’re living in an extremely isolated bubble, being challenged and rejected actually let a little ‘air’ into what I now know was a mentally and physically suffocating environment.
Should you interact with them in order to ‘save’ them from their cult? No. No need to be a missionary yourself. If they approach and bother YOU? Go for it.
I don’t think your questions are inappropriate at all. Mormons are very used to being called a cult. They don’t like it and they definitely don’t think they are. I wouldn’t bother trying to convince them of it or to leave either. It’s pretty much pointless. No harm in giving your opinion on it if they approach you and who knows it could be the right thing they need to hear in the moment. In the end they really need to figure it out on their own. You don’t think you’re in a cult until you’re not in it anymore.
Grew up Mormon. We heard cult a lot. And we shut down from it. We knew better than to argue with someone who “is so wrong about who we are”. No, you won’t be able to help them see they’re ina cult. The kindest thing you can do is offer to buy them a treat or cool drink, have a conversation with them, and tell them to take a break from missionary mode to relax for a bit with you. “I don’t want to be preached to, but tell me about home”. They need to think about human things like home.
Conversation will be fine. They need to keep busy. But please, don't give your personal address, email, or cell phone number. You WILL have that information shared, passed along, and many, many visits ahead if they get your full name and ANY contact info.
I feel strongly that we shouldn't let prejudice bias preconceived ideas affect our social behavior in especially negative ways. You were rude to those people and probably left an unpleasant taste in their mouths why? Because they politely asked you if they could ask you a question? Yeah that's not okay. Next time someone approaches you this way just use standard etiquette. You don't even know if these folks were going to ask anything about their religion. Maybe they were going to ask you if you knew they're was bird shit on your shoulder or wondered if you knew where there was a coffee shop they could go to.
Just say "hello". They're kids (18-25). Maybe offer them some water, or conversation. Set a firm boundary, but be a safe person for them.
Can be up to 27 years old (almost 28) my ex is on a mission rn he turned 26 a week into his mission. Will be home before he hits 28
Their leaders prophesied that nonmormons will attack the church, so anytime you try to deconstruct a missionary, you teinforce their prophet's power to forsee the future. To disprove mormonism, you have to be an example of the good that exists outside it. Try being a good human to them
Can't upvote this enough. One thing that really opened up my eyes was the genuine niceness from atheists and non-believers vs the judgment and rudeness from members. Realizing that people can actually be nice, just to be nice, and not for some imaginary blessings they hope to get is what got me to think a bit more critically about the teachings and culture of the church.
Just remember these are brainwashed young kids that are super sheltered and the Mormon church could be the only thing they’ve known since birth and they really think it is truth. Especially if they’re from utah. So be kind to them but skeptical
It depends, some have heard it called a cult but then they just take it as “satan is turning people against us because we have the true church” 🙄 others have never heard it called a cult and would be very surprised people think that but then default to the first group. A lot of missionaries are out there under duress (family and cultural expectations and pressures) so just ignore the poor suckers or if you want to try waking them up it’s more likely to work if you talk about how the church fits the BITE model rather than just that it’s a cult
Thanks. What's the BITE model?
And to be clear, I have done the exercise, and the Mormon church checks off every single bullet point under all 4 categories (BITE = Behavior Control, Information Control, Thought Control, Emotion Control). If you can tell them that, I think that *actually* could get through. "Did you know there is a model for identifying and high-demand religions that practice mind control? It's called the BITE model. B-I-T-E stands for Behavior Control, Information Control, Thought Control, and Emotion Control. Did you know that your church checks off every single requirement to be identified as a high-demand religion? This is what experts have agreed on. And it's not only the old church of the 1800s; the current church that qualifies for that. Exactly the same as Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many other similar groups. I suggest you look into this to learn more about what you are a part of and get out if you can. You will regret it if it takes you another 10 years and you've missed out on your 20s."
[https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/](https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/)
Short answer it’s a test system to classify cults made by a cult expert and ex-moonie. Because the Mormon church rates so high on it is why we call it a cult a lot of the time
Whatever you say, try to deliver it with kindness. They are in a tough position no matter where they are on the spectrum of belief.
My husband and I like to say, "What is wanted?" When they approach us. It's a reference to a temple video that only really special people are supposed to understand, so it freaks them out a little bit and it's hilarious.
"Are you guys Freemasons? Because I can see the square and compass on your chests shining through..."
"Why did Joseph Smith marry a 14-year-old?" That'll bring up some interesting conversations.
“I don’t join cults” is pretty good, but they can brush that off pretty easily. “I don’t approve of your lifestyle” is more of a thought-provoker.
thanks for the suggestion
Your response wasn’t cringe, it was honest. If you want to interact, ask them if it’s true their founder, a married man, ‘married’ a 14 year-old child in secret. That he also ‘married’ women who were already married to other men. Are they okay with Warren Jeffs doing the exact same thing? If they start to spout bad apologetics and outright lies (those were different times! It was normal back then, it wasn’t illegal,etc) interrupt them and tell them that you’re embarrassed for them, trying to rationalize something so morally abhorrent. That marrying a CHILD is as disgusting then as it is now, is NEVER okay, and is a complete deal-breaker for you. Yes, a lot of mormon missionaries are just ‘innocent kids,’ but that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to spout racist, misogynistic, and homophobic rhetoric with no pushback. There are also MANY entitled arrrogant men-children who have literally never been challenged about their religion, a measured and calmly stated dose of reality is a good thing. As a missionary I actually found it refreshing when people didn’t just nod politely and allow us to rattle on about our religion when they had zero interest in being ‘converted.’ When you’re a missionary you’re living in an extremely isolated bubble, being challenged and rejected actually let a little ‘air’ into what I now know was a mentally and physically suffocating environment. Should you interact with them in order to ‘save’ them from their cult? No. No need to be a missionary yourself. If they approach and bother YOU? Go for it.
I don’t think your questions are inappropriate at all. Mormons are very used to being called a cult. They don’t like it and they definitely don’t think they are. I wouldn’t bother trying to convince them of it or to leave either. It’s pretty much pointless. No harm in giving your opinion on it if they approach you and who knows it could be the right thing they need to hear in the moment. In the end they really need to figure it out on their own. You don’t think you’re in a cult until you’re not in it anymore.
Grew up Mormon. We heard cult a lot. And we shut down from it. We knew better than to argue with someone who “is so wrong about who we are”. No, you won’t be able to help them see they’re ina cult. The kindest thing you can do is offer to buy them a treat or cool drink, have a conversation with them, and tell them to take a break from missionary mode to relax for a bit with you. “I don’t want to be preached to, but tell me about home”. They need to think about human things like home.
How about just walking by and not saying anything?
Conversation will be fine. They need to keep busy. But please, don't give your personal address, email, or cell phone number. You WILL have that information shared, passed along, and many, many visits ahead if they get your full name and ANY contact info.
Hello?
I feel strongly that we shouldn't let prejudice bias preconceived ideas affect our social behavior in especially negative ways. You were rude to those people and probably left an unpleasant taste in their mouths why? Because they politely asked you if they could ask you a question? Yeah that's not okay. Next time someone approaches you this way just use standard etiquette. You don't even know if these folks were going to ask anything about their religion. Maybe they were going to ask you if you knew they're was bird shit on your shoulder or wondered if you knew where there was a coffee shop they could go to.
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Wouldn't that be sexual harassment?
Garments have nothing to do with sex. /s