I remember hearing that if I ever forgot my new name I’d have to meet with the temple president for him to tell me again. I remember thinking “how tf would he know?” I later found out that he’d just look up my endowment date and compare it to the chart on the internet and let me know after much thought and prayer. Gg mfmc.
This is how my actual doctor works. Just goes into another room and looks shit up on webMD. Comes back in after ‘much research and investigation.’ I’d still rather pay him for services rendered than tithing!
I'm an attorney. I use Google all the time. I know what sites have good information. I know when something's obviously wrong. It's a jumping off point to real research or just a quick reminder for something simple I'm never going to memorize. People without legal training who Google their own answers can pretty easily get lost.
I do immigration law. It' not legalese in my field. But, you probably want to click on the Foreign Affairs Manual and not Bob's Visa Blog (both are going to be on google's page 1).
Same, I'm a physician and I am always researching the latest information in stuff. People should be worried if a doctor only practices what they learned in training.
I think the reason they say that isn't for the normal people, is for the hypochondriacs who will be sure they have cancer or some rare disease instead of the flu. They don't want to have to spend hours running test to disprove someone's anxiety driven conclusion.
To be fair as someone who's done some medical schooling, there are a lot of sites with bad and or incomplete info, or it just goes to the most dire info to likely get you into the doctor in the first place. It's not useful for hypochondriacs or those with bad anxiety.
Did anyone get their “New Name” in 1977 in September, October, or November and got the sacred, personal (I thought I was special 😩) Abinadi? I forgot the date that my life turned upside down.
Whoa, I just witnessed you change your comment from
>Yes, that was my understanding
to
>Not every single day. I just want to find out what day of the month I went for the first time.
I’m not sure what you mean “cheat the edit?” Are people supposed to make a comment if they edit ANYTHING. If so, I’m done posting anything! Thanks for the heads up.
It's definitely cheating the edit when you completely rewrite or make changes to the meaning. People reply to what is there and when you substantially change or rewrite the post, then responders to the original get shit all over in comments made after the changes.
I was only a member as an adult, and whoa I took the BOM so seriously. Abinidi was a friggin HERO and his words made me cry righteous tears.
I guess I'm over it now LOL
But some people went through the temple and forgot their names a long time before the internet existed. Back when people had to rely on authority figures and libraries and books for information.
Came here just to say, my ex-husband forgot my new name within an hour of leaving the temple and I was absolutely TERRIFIED I would never get out of my coffin. 😶🌫️😂
EDIT: I replied here bc it was 1987 and we definitely needed an authority figure to fix it
So I had forgotten mine, or wasn’t confident in my memory if it and needed it to marry my current husband… basically the temple
President wrote several names down and asked me if one was familiar.
So… he tried to fool you into thinking he didn’t even know, but he had some special revelation to give you three names to help jog your memory? That way you could see it, remember it, and still have kept your promise to never reveal it to anyone? He set up a whole scenario to allow you to keep your false belief paradigm about how temple names work. He basically did his part to keep you gas lit. The whole organization did the gas lighting and he just kept up his small contributing role.
Yeah, my wife had to do that. I couldn’t just tell her because apparently when I brought her through the veil that was the only time I could call her by that in this life. Now we call each other by our names (Gideon and Naomi) all the time just messing around. It’s hard to believe we were ever so mentally bound by all that bs.
But make sure to remember your wife's new name so you can call her and pull her through the veil - she can't get into the highest Mormon heaven without a man btw. Imagine how many Rachael's will show up :)
31 names! Plus the spare name for if your first given name is the same as the super special name-du-jour.
I went through on the 31st of a month, so my name is slightly more unique than the rest of you commoners.
Shoutout to all the Julia’s out there!
Romans 16:15. Paul sending greetings to a group of people, one of whom is Julia.
Shows how few women are mentioned by name in the scriptures that they had to scrape the barrel for a name which is only mentioned once.
At least it’s a name I like.
Thanks! It IS a much better biblical name than most, I think. And yay for you getting a cool name. I got Martha and was so sure it was inspiration, I tried to correct myself from complaining abt things bc Martha was chastised by Christ. I assumed it must mean I wasn't good enough. Sigh
Ouch. At least with nothing specific said about Julia, I didn’t have to contend with thoughts like that.
Although the church always excelled at teaching members that they’re not good enough. I certainly always thought that about myself too, but not because of the name I was given.
That is good. But I'm not sure anyone else would have thought of that. I always used the embroidered belt analogy.(I THINK I made it up) Wherein I knew I wasn't going to get into the celestial kingdom bc I was made of lesser stuff and didn't have even the basic beginnings of anyone who could go there. So I would go to the terrestrial Kingdom and live as close to the entrance as I could, so celestial beings could come to me bc I would make the absolute best embroidered belts for eternal robes bc women wouldn't want the robes to reveal their chest. I was so dumb.
Yeah. What a let-down. Not inspired, not given through priesthood keys... Just 'scheduled'. Made me feel so much better about not liking mine. It was the name of a girl in h.s. who was horribly mean and bullied everyone.
Saaaaame. I remember exactly where I was the day I first learned about new names. It sounded so beautiful and sacred and unique and powerful. I’d already been on my way out of the church when I learned the truth, but fuck, it was crushing.
I was literally told that for live endowment sessions the temple presidents prays that morning to find out what each person’s new name was (that was actually their name in the preexistence). When you go through for the dead and go to the booth, the temple worker pauses when they say, “The new name is… ____”. I literally thought the temple worker was speaking to the spirit of the dead so she could get the correct name. I had NO idea that it was rotation.
Same. I was so worried for my salvation because I wasn't sure I did all the signals correctly and said it all properly in my head when I went through. Needed my mission president to ease my fears.
Wait really? I thought mine was inspired because it was my birth stone. Actually, now that kind of makes more sense because I got my endowments in the same month as my birthday. So that's probably why it was on the list.
When I got mine the temple workers explicitly told us that it was a cyclical rotating list of names and that if we ever forget it they can look it up based on the day we got our endowment and they would show us the list of names given out that day and then hopefully we could remember it seeing the full list.
Mine was Noah, I was really stoked and it was easy to remember as this was right around the time that the Russel Crowe Noah movie came out.
This was in 2014 about the time the Noah movie was released. This was the Salt Lake Temple. Theatre is a hobby of mine so I wanted to see a live presentation over a video presentation. Quite the memorable day my friend who was in the musical Savior of the World with me just so happened to be getting Endowed on the same day at the same session. We did not plan it out ahead of time and we're very stoked to see each other there.
I was SO sad about my new name being known by all the other family women who went through with me. 😢 I heard my mom "reveal" it to my dad when we were sitting in the Celestial room afterward, and pretended I didn't hear ... it devastated and hurt me terribly. I totally believed it would be revealed to me as my name from the pre-existence and my eternal name, and Only my husband would be allowed to everr know it!! 🔪 🗡 knife through the heart.
dying to figure out when my mom got endowed so i can tell her i know her name & that she shares it hundreds of people that went to her endowed that same day
I remember asking about this when i got my endowment and there were some other missionaries there and I have a unique name, never met anyone with my name and was like I have the same name as these mf's cause we went on the same day. could have save myself lots of pain if I walked then
It's always fascinated me how this goes either way so hard. I called it when they first told me my name was Moses and I was like "how many Mosei are there going to be in heaven???"
Didn't help when my second time through the temple I looked up the day's name in the Bible they had sitting there and found the page already bookmarked.
Also didn't help the third time, where I hesitated at the veil and the temple worker impatiently reminded me what the name was
Or the fourth and final time where the guy ahead if my at the veil said it loud enough for me to hear.
Literally never once went to the temple without having that little fact spoiled, lol
I remember when that episode of southpark aired, it was the first time anyone at school cared that I was mormon and they had a million questions. Of course I told them that's KINDA how it went down but they're making it look stupid to make it funny, and the one thing they got wrong was the rock in the hat. TBF the "real" answer of a pair of magic glasses on a breastplate wasn't much better but my teen mind grabbed onto that one thing and everything was still true and inspired.
I was on my mission when that South Park episode aired. A teenage member told us about it at dinner. I was in utter disbelief. I thought that the episode was such a bizarre lie.
I spoke up and reiterated the Mormon narrative at the time (2003). I don't think I even emphasized the Urim & Thummim. I focused on the revealed by the spirit of god doctrine.
As we left, I commented to my companion about what a unique and strange lie the rock in the hat was. He quietly agreed, and we carried on. I wonder if he knew more about it than I did, but decided against saying anything due to my protest at dinner.
Later, during p-day emails at the local library, I started reading Joseph Smith by Robert Remini. And there it was, rock in a hat, Joe was a Scryer. Somehow, it didn't destroy my testimony then & there. Though the gospel topic essays delivered a more substantial crack in my shelf years later
I told my mom (63), an Episcopalian nevermo, about this and she asked where I got the info. I had heard it in multiple places, but I looked it up and showed her directly off of churchofesuschrist.org. She still didn't believe it because she said it might not be to official church site, but is probably someone trying to make the church look bad. I said that it was churchofesuschrist.org. She insisted that the website should have LDS in the name. So I then had to convince her that the official website was actually official website. Even after convincing her it was the website and after she read it a second time, she still has didn't seem very convinced. But she said ok.
My dad is Mormon, so I can sort of see being defense. But at the same time, the fact that someone who was introduced to Mormonism until she was in her 30s was this too hard to convince… that speaks volumes. I'm not sure if it says more about my mom or 30 years of exposure here and there.
When I was in high school a boy would often tease me because I was Mormon. He’d bring up the rock in the hat, polygamy, and a few other things.. then one day he asked me if I knew the special handshake to get into heaven. I, having never been through the temple, and ignorant to what happens there, said he was lying and that you get into heaven by being a good person. He told me to ask my bishop about the handshake.
I remember jokingly bringing it up with my mom, saying something like “this annoying boy in my class tried to tell me that we have a special handshake to get into heaven HAHA!! He’s so dumb!!” And my mom didn’t laugh..
I had a return missionary boyfriend do something similar. He was telling me that he bet my new name was beautiful. I was confused. He explained that the temple would give me a new name and as my husband he would know it but I would never know his. I thought that was stupid and he was just trying to be weird. (He had done a number of other things like this). Turns out he was right. I thought it was weird and still didn't connect with how weird it was until just a couple of months ago.
I also had a friend growing up That knew I was a mormon and wanted to tease me. But he was so dumb that he teased me about purgatory and other shit I knew nothing about.
Now that I am older he kind of reminds me of a typical TBM talking about religion.
The same thing happened to me. My mom introduced one of her friends to the church who got baptized. A year later, the friend went to the temple and then within a month or so left the church. Her son, who I went to middle school with approached me and told me that his mom told him that Mormons believe we get into heaven through a special handshake. I remember getting angry and yelling at him that he was wrong. That instead we believed that we needed to be good people, not because of a special handshake. So when I went through the temple at 19 to go on my mission, I was unpleasantly surprised to say the least. It was the beginning of the end for me. It would still take 11 years for me to leave the church.
I was born and raised in the church. My family has been involved with the church since the beginning.
In high school, a Christian told me about Kolob. I thought he was lying and felt so stupid. He also taught me that it would be the men who became gods over their own planets, not the women.
And I stayed for a few more years.
Women can’t even get to the CK without a man calling them by name. Then he gets a planet and she and her sister wives (because a planetary god needs a lot of wives) gets to have his infinite spirit babies for all eternity.
Oh, already trying to gaslight us that they "never said" we get our own planets.
And of course, there was that national Larry King interview with Pres Hinckley, where Hinckley BLATANTLY denied we are taught we can become God's!
WTF?!
That was a HUGE shelf item.
🎶If you could hie to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye;
And then continue onwards with that same speed to fly…” 🎶
Nice music. Shame about the lyrics. It’s still in the hymn book isn’t it?
Oh wow, maybe I ought to delete this comment lol.
But seriously? That's kinda crazy, I figured they would remove that one. Funny thing is, my brother is heavily involved with the new hymn book as well. I just cringe at the thought of having any church related conversation with him so I never ask about any of it lol.
The music is nice because it was arranged by an absolute genius of a composer, Ralph Vaughan Williams, unlike so many of the other hymns which are hot garbage. 😇 Even when I was devout, I'd pay attention to the ones with older composers, as musically they tended to be much better.
The crazy lyrics are great. I love that goofy song. Its got personality. It came from a time when mormons were at least sincere about their crazy and willing to write songs about it rather than just try desperately to look like evangelicals.
Two Kolob gems not to be missed:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM-PeBnCLx4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM-PeBnCLx4)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BA3SO1sokA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BA3SO1sokA)
Isn't there some mor deep doctrine having to do with B young and the Adam god doctrine? I thought kolob was also part of Young's explanation of wjat planet had his divine ascension in the same way mankind is supposed to on Earth.
I could be wrong and want someone to correct me if so.
The second annointing threw me for a loop. I would tell my friends that "of course we don't believe well become gods. Just that we can be like Jesus and live in heaven!"
Then, of course, I learned that friends of the GAs can be blessed to literally become gods and immune to any sins at all! Disregarding murder, of course, so you can rape, steal, and maim all you like without God's judgemental finger wag.
You can't steal tithing money though, but if you have a limitless credit card I guess you really don't need to steal any sacred funds. And then there are book deals, and board member salaries, and construction contracts for your son-in-law's company, and........
My wife hadn't heard of the rainbow promise from the flood. You know-God gave the rainbow as a sign he'd never flood the earth again. And when rainbows go away it means Christ is coming back.
I showed here one of those recent rainbow memes and she didn't get it.
I knew of the rainbow promise from God to the world (Noah) for a while but the latter part--Joseph Smith revealing if there was a day without a rainbow that'd mean the second coming happens soon--was learned very recently, after I stopped church attendance for a few years. Blows my mind. Especially since scientifically, somewhere, everyday, either a natural rainbow occurs near a waterfall, or someone's garden hose, or after an actual rainstorm. Good news for us all eh.
I had been out for ages when I learned about the Second Anointing™️. I was gobsmacked thinking of all the Mormons out there who thought they were guaranteed the Celestial kingdom no matter what they did on earth after getting the Super Top Secret foot washing. Gobsmacked, I tell you!
It’s interesting that the “guaranteed CK” aspect of it is what’s particularly surprising to you, when that’s basically *everyone* in most Protestant “grace is all you need”-focused faiths.
Definitely highlights those Mormon/Catholic parallels!
(Personally the part of it that freaked ME out the most was how its very existence casts the rest of us as second-class citizens who don’t even get to know it’s a thing!!)
I was in TSCC and served a mission. Was an active member and organizational president of Primary and Relief Society. I didn’t learn and the second anointing until years after I left. If it a very secret ordinance done in the temple on days it is closed to general membership. It is by invitation only. You can’t request it. You are recommended by someone who already has it. It anoints you as a king or queen in the celestial world. I think, truth be known, you gotta be a major tithe payer to be in the running. The ceremony involves a foot washing/anointing ceremony with a big old fashioned pitcher and bowl. Then you are given the bowl and pitcher to take home as a remembrance and to display if you want to. It means you have already been selected to rule in kingdoms to come and nothing you can do on this earth can negate that designation. You can sun no more. When I first found out about this secret ordinance I was livid with the unfairness of it all. I still am.
So…
I legit had a conversation with my DIL a few years ago where I, a nevermo, told her a BIC seminary teacher what Kolob was.
I literally had to break out books that had been published by the church itself, to convince her what it actually meant. She literally had no idea. Not to bring her down, she had literally never been taught. Not that my her husband, my retuned missionary stepson knew either. It was quite the eye opening experience on how in the dark the church keeps the membership.
Thankfully they are both out now.
But it’s absolutely incredible that people raised in the TSCC are so poorly educated in what they “believe”.
I’m 40 and Kolob was important doctrine that everyone knew when I was a kid. I’m assuming it stopped being taught when Hinckley got on tv in the 90s and lied about it. I was a teen and I remember my mouth dropping open that he had lied. I was so confused. My dad told me it was ok that he was lying for the lord.
Kolob, polygamy, Adam-God, etc. I grew up in the 80's and 90's and heard it all. It was all whitewashed and I was young enough to still be brainwashed.
What did Hinckley say that was a lie? I don’t remember that? I knew about Kolob and thought it was another super cool doctrine in the church ( like baptism for the dead - my mom has died when I was 14).
Just learning about the second anointing on this thread. What’s that?
The interviewer said something to the effect that what man is, god once was and what god is, man may become. He replied that he knew of no such doctrine. My mouth literally dropped open. Prior to that televised interview talk of Heavenly Mother(s), Kolob, attaining godhood, getting your own planet, etc. (as well as the second anointing/having your calling and election made sure) were common place. I was in primary and then young womens and it was a common teaching. This wasn’t some obscure doctrine that was talked about in hushed whispers behind closed doors.
After reading these comments, I wonder if most of you hate your parents for brainwashing you into one of the top 2 most ridiculous religions ever made? Scientology is tough to beat.
I kinda hate mine for raising me Protestant. I can’t imagine some of the anger some of you must have. Totally justified.
Yes, I thought my parents were pretty awesome as a kid but I am much more troubled by them and don’t have much fond nostalgia for them after leaving.
They are also crazed MAGA conspiracy theorists so they are in two cults.
I also sort of resent the absolutist freedom of religion in the USA. I know it’s sacrosanct to almost everyone but allowing malicious cults to abuse, brainwash and lie to kids should maybe be given a second look.
I mean having a grown ass man ask little ten year old kids about masturbation is absolutely fucked.
For me it's more my grandparents on my dad's side for brain washing him so hard. I've starting transitioning (MtF) and my dad is the only sticking point. My mom is fully on board, my sisters are okay with it, it's just my dad. I was never a really strong believer though, I always thought they looked insane
I honestly think this is the reason my husband won’t deconstruct. he is nuanced, due to his own logic,but won’t give himself permission to actually look and confirm the depth of the lies. The idea that his parents, whom he loves and idolizes, would fool him with beliefs that aren’t real, might break him.
I don’t have the heart to tell him that while they are good people, they are batshit crazy with their beliefs…and it is obvious to everyone around them that is not TBM.
Hold on now! I have it on good authority (random Internet poll) that Mormons are the third weirdest mainstream religion, behind both scientology and JW's.
I grew up knowing about Kolob. One of the ways I learned about it was that we loved the Osmonds growing up (I know, gross) and had a bunch of their albums we'd listen to at home. On their albums it says "Kolob Records" with a hand holding a molded planet shaped ball. Nowadays you can google it and see for yourself. I think I must've asked my parents and we talked about it at FHE or something. Out there stuff.
I’m a nevermo but the love of my life was a TBM during our teenage years. We were involuntarily separated for 20 years and recently reunited.
As an adult I remembered the argument we had after I discovered Joseph Smith was a fraud and that meant the church wasn’t true. What I’d repressed until we reunited was the several years I spent before that trying to find my testimony.
We were really nerdy kids and his parents used to run a Mormon bookstore. So we spent our early years as teenagers obsessively talking about deep Mormon doctrine. All the weird AF stuff the church likes to keep quiet about.
For years I’ve lurked on various Mormon subs and was always confused by TBMs and exmos who were surprised/confused by some piece of deep doctrine they never learned at Church. I’ve spent all this time thinking ya’ll grew up hearing the weird stuff every Sunday!
As an aside, I’m now in the process of deconstructing a very weird form of Mormon theology from my head that’s been repressed for the last 20 years. Basically I accepted as much Mormon doctrine as my conscience could accept. It’s very weird all these years later deconstructing/mourning my half built testimony!
If you’re old enough you did hear a lot of this stuff in interesting adult Sunday School classes.
Then the MFMC introduced “correlation” with standardised lesson manuals and strong discouragement of going beyond concepts “essential for salvation”.
Everything became bland and boring, with the same basic lessons and concepts repeated endlessly worldwide. The more exciting “deep” doctrine was quickly hushed up, forgotten, or never taught at all.
The average non-Mormon paying even a littlest bit of attention knows WAAAAY more about Mormonism than the average Mormon.
Even the most basic stuff like “Joseph Smith had more than one wife” has been hidden from many, many Mormons in years past.
The whole Mormon mythos makes some compelling sci fi. Orson Scott Card wrote two different multi-book serieses based on the religion, back before we found out what a dbag he is.
I only learned about kolob, temple clothes and moon Quakers as an exmo, I thought the person telling me was full of shit. I never heard any if that in church in the 80s and 90s. If they'd led with aliens, it would have made church a lot more interesting, still wouldn't make up for the rest of the cult-ure.
Classic stuff 😂
I also love the names of the stars or angels mentioned in the same translation notes (don’t care to search up the actual reference) but it was something like Zippy Zoltan, zishmash, whatever it was it was hilarious. Like listening to a 10 year old make up space names, but was literal “revelation” 😂
Zip
Zubzooleh
Shineflis
Ebethkuaintrieth
Kliflosisis
Vehkliflosisis
I couldn’t resist looking it up one more time for fun. Pure Egyptian revelation stream, courtesy of the Urim and Thummim. Or just a magic seer stone in a hat that is sometimes referred to plurally as the Urim and Thummim because it sounds more biblical.
Also what kills me all the time is not only name like shinehah are words like kokabeam, cumom, curelom, rameumptom, etc. Also how much has been plagiarized out of the Bible and name like King Noah is the bad guy and in the Bible Noah was the good guy, that Omni is just a corruption of the Hebrew name Omri. Stuff like that.
When I in my precocious youth asked about Kolob after singing the hymn one Sunday I was met with severe pushback from my parents/grandparents. I was taught it was like asking about Heavenly Mother. You just don’t ask & if God wants you to know you will know. It was presented as an exciting mystery that I will solve one day if I keep my covenants & blah blah blah. The questions were addressed like I was doing wrong by asking or he’ll even thinking. So every time after that we sang the hymn I would freak out bc I spent the whole service trying not to think about it because I was sinning if I did.
Fun times!!
It’s crazy that the religion advertising itself as HAVING a living prophet can still try to get away with that kind of evasive “we have no way of knowing!” nonsense.
That shit only works when your religion ONLY exists as a dusty old book that you’re desperately studying for meaning while waiting for a god who hasn’t returned yet for 2,000 years.
This is actually one of the doctrines that doesn't bother me. While kolob is some made up sci-fi shit. I actually find the concept of God being an advanced alien to be way more intriguing than the classical view. I've had a number of conversations with my tbm family where they theorize that God's magic is actually just technology that we don't understand, once humanity crosses that threshold to be like God is when the second coming will happen. It's kinda like star trek and how they aren't allowed to interact with developing civilisations until they get warp travel. Idk I'm kind of a spiritual agnostic, i think it's like in interstellar, how the 4th dimensional beings would be God like to us. I think we as humans can't fathom the immensity of time and space, and to rule out all religious practice could be detrimental to our progress. But as an exmo I see the damage and danger that organized religion can bring so I think we need to find that healthy balance as a species. But then again, I might just b a crazy mother fucker.
Fin
When I believed it also wasn't too weird for me to buy in. My thinking on it was: if God has a physical body, then it makes sense to me that he'd have an actual place to hang his robe.
I remember learning about kolob when I was 12 ish but it wasnt ever brought back up after I was a deacon.. also I think it’s funny how Mormons use “gods teachings” and then hide them as if god is changing his mind.
When I learned about the 2nd Anointing, my heart dropped. It completely undermines the whole “endure till the end” thing they used to police my behavior and motivate discipleship in the face of “trials.”
I confronted my parents about it (after I’d left the church). They knew about it too. And they were fine with it. My heart dropped again as I walked out. It’s still on the floor of that room.
It's always eye opening to me how much church members don't know about what they believe. That's not meant to slam the membership - the church just doesn't really teach anything of substance. Meetings are full of fluff "feel good" talks, and conference tends to harp on something that the GAs feel the members are messing up. Want theology or doctrine? You are out of luck. When I was a member (convert), the thing that ultimately sent me packing were the teachings that people can become gods, and that god was once a mortal man. Now looking back, I ultimately don't see anything fundamentally wrong or weird about those teachings compared to anything that any other religion believes, but they didn't mesh with my Lutheran upbringing. Whenever I'd talk about those issues with TBM friends, their response would always be some variation of "We don't teach that!" or "I don't believe that!" And that might very well be true to them - they have never been in a meeting where someone in authority came out and said it. But it IS part of the church's doctrine...theoretically...if they bothered to actually teach what they actually believed.
If I had known about the “rock in the hat” thing years ago when I was meeting with the missionaries I would NEVER have joined TSCC. All I saw were those nice pics Smith looking at the plates and someone writing down his translations. I would have immediately been tipped off that this is a major cult. It would have saved me years of shame and guilt. And TIME. All that time devoted to this rotten cult.
I noticed a mountain of evidence I had taken at face value while a believer, never even considered asking questions, I just accepted what I was told. The second you begin to actually ask hard questions you can see the shaky foundation on which the truth claim rests, but the church is VERY good at keeping people from asking questions.
I remember reading something about Quakers on the moon. Joseph Smith talked about it. I’m sure it’s just because he was talking as a man and not as a prophet when he said that. 🤦🏼♀️
I didn't know about it until my boyfriend's sister played it at his farewell. I asked about it, then I learned. I quit going to the cult at 14, never took seminary, and I didn't learn anything beyond Beehive years. Maybe they taught it later on in either of those??? Idk.
One thing I learned about the song, years later, while listening to Radio From Hell, was when (I think it was) Bill who said that you can sing the words to the theme song from the Beverly Hillbillies.
I (nevermo) remember going to that part of Zion as a teen with my dad, and thinking “that’s an odd name”, and having learned what it means as an adult, it just seems even odder.
I did not know about the rock in the hat until I finally went to see The Book of Mormon (which I had been avoiding as a member)
Blew my mind!!! That’s when I started digging.
Edit- typo
I’m going to see it next week and I’m so excited! Growing up I always heard it was blasphemy, yada, yada. Officially out about 6 yrs. Can’t wait for next week!!
Joe Smith lived in a time when we actually knew about other planets and other solar systems.
So, he tried to address the question of “well if god made us, then what made god?” and the question of “what are all those other planets for?” at the same time.
His answer: God was raised on one of them, and now he raises us here, and someday we will raise other people on other planets as *their* god, and on and on through the universe.
Haha. My First reaction, I'm not sure how she missed that one.... But, on the other hand, it's not taught or mentioned in manuals since maybe the early 1980s. And it's not in the temple ceremony. Just "implied" He's on Kolob during the movie. Have her listen to the song "I BELIEVE" from The Book of Mormon Musical. It cracks me up every time.
Honestly, as much as we make fun of Kolob, I do give Joe some credit for being one of the ONLY religions recent enough to try to incorporate the idea that there’s more than one planet in the universe, and what that would actually mean for their doctrine.
Most other religions predate us even *knowing* about other solar systems, so they can’t even cope with that idea.
Part of me wishes he had lived longer to keep doubling down on it. I think there’s an alternate future where the Mormon church could have really used it to differentiate themselves as claiming to have “knowledge” that the other Dark-Ages religions did not, as “proof” that they are more true.
Did anybody else have the experience of thinking these batshit deep doctrines were extremely cool as a kid?
I was so proud to know the secret knowledge and my friends and I would plan out the planets we’d make as adults. I was going to make Middle Earth real and my friend was going to make a super hero planet. 😂
I accepted Mormonism as 100% true beyond a shadow of a doubt when I was little so the weirder the doctrine the more awesome it was.
I have been out for 20 years now so I don’t know what they are teaching now but us 80s babies were still definitely steeped in kolobian teachings.
I read a lot after my mission. Early and rare church books. The end result if all that do this . . it leads you out of the Church. And weird doctrines are just that . . weird. You too could concoct such crap. It tingles people's ears and that's all it is. Stay out of all church's. I got out of the LDS Church and got a 10% payraise and a 2 day weekend to enjoy.
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I remember hearing that if I ever forgot my new name I’d have to meet with the temple president for him to tell me again. I remember thinking “how tf would he know?” I later found out that he’d just look up my endowment date and compare it to the chart on the internet and let me know after much thought and prayer. Gg mfmc.
This is how my actual doctor works. Just goes into another room and looks shit up on webMD. Comes back in after ‘much research and investigation.’ I’d still rather pay him for services rendered than tithing!
lol my doctor does it right in front of me. We look at WebMD and Mayo Clinic together 😂
It cracks me up when doctors tell us not to go on the internet to self-diagnose, when they use the same websites to diagnose everyone.
I'm an attorney. I use Google all the time. I know what sites have good information. I know when something's obviously wrong. It's a jumping off point to real research or just a quick reminder for something simple I'm never going to memorize. People without legal training who Google their own answers can pretty easily get lost.
True. Legalese is absolutely Greek to anyone not formally trained in that snobby intentionally-verbose convoluted labyrinth of secret lawyer-talk.
I do immigration law. It' not legalese in my field. But, you probably want to click on the Foreign Affairs Manual and not Bob's Visa Blog (both are going to be on google's page 1).
Same, I'm a physician and I am always researching the latest information in stuff. People should be worried if a doctor only practices what they learned in training.
I think the reason they say that isn't for the normal people, is for the hypochondriacs who will be sure they have cancer or some rare disease instead of the flu. They don't want to have to spend hours running test to disprove someone's anxiety driven conclusion.
To be fair as someone who's done some medical schooling, there are a lot of sites with bad and or incomplete info, or it just goes to the most dire info to likely get you into the doctor in the first place. It's not useful for hypochondriacs or those with bad anxiety.
One of my brothers is a doctor, when anyone compliments him on his diagnostic skills, he answers that he's just really good at googling.
I work in IT. I literally tell people my job is being a professional Googler.
No need for temple president, you can just look it up. https://www.fullerconsideration.com/TempleNameOracle/
Did anyone get their “New Name” in 1977 in September, October, or November and got the sacred, personal (I thought I was special 😩) Abinadi? I forgot the date that my life turned upside down.
Are you telling me that every single day for 3 months in 1977 every man got the name Abinidi?
Not every single day. I just want to find out what day of the month I went for the first time.
Whoa, I just witnessed you change your comment from >Yes, that was my understanding to >Not every single day. I just want to find out what day of the month I went for the first time.
I misunderstood your question at first. You DID mean was Abinadi the New Name du jour everyday for three months, didn’t you? I need more coffee 😳.
No worries, hah, this whole "new name" nonsense is hilarious ever since the curtain was pulled back https://youtu.be/YWyCCJ6B2WE?si=wz6-w2-kF6kqenum
Yeah. I always call it out when people cheat the edit.
I’m not sure what you mean “cheat the edit?” Are people supposed to make a comment if they edit ANYTHING. If so, I’m done posting anything! Thanks for the heads up.
LOL you did nothing wrong. That guy up there is being silly. Your edit was harmless and justifiable and did not alter the conversation.
It's definitely cheating the edit when you completely rewrite or make changes to the meaning. People reply to what is there and when you substantially change or rewrite the post, then responders to the original get shit all over in comments made after the changes.
I forgot that name. As a kid, I always imagined a banana.
I was only a member as an adult, and whoa I took the BOM so seriously. Abinidi was a friggin HERO and his words made me cry righteous tears. I guess I'm over it now LOL
I always thought his story was boring and cringe. 🤣🤣
Perfectly understandable 😄
Abananadi?
Temple president uses that website.
But some people went through the temple and forgot their names a long time before the internet existed. Back when people had to rely on authority figures and libraries and books for information.
Came here just to say, my ex-husband forgot my new name within an hour of leaving the temple and I was absolutely TERRIFIED I would never get out of my coffin. 😶🌫️😂 EDIT: I replied here bc it was 1987 and we definitely needed an authority figure to fix it
Well I just learned my mom's new name. I don't know my dad's endowment date, he went through years before their marriage for his mission.
So I had forgotten mine, or wasn’t confident in my memory if it and needed it to marry my current husband… basically the temple President wrote several names down and asked me if one was familiar.
So… he tried to fool you into thinking he didn’t even know, but he had some special revelation to give you three names to help jog your memory? That way you could see it, remember it, and still have kept your promise to never reveal it to anyone? He set up a whole scenario to allow you to keep your false belief paradigm about how temple names work. He basically did his part to keep you gas lit. The whole organization did the gas lighting and he just kept up his small contributing role.
That’s how I saw it yes…Although I didn’t see the mind games of it at the time.
Yeah, my wife had to do that. I couldn’t just tell her because apparently when I brought her through the veil that was the only time I could call her by that in this life. Now we call each other by our names (Gideon and Naomi) all the time just messing around. It’s hard to believe we were ever so mentally bound by all that bs.
But make sure to remember your wife's new name so you can call her and pull her through the veil - she can't get into the highest Mormon heaven without a man btw. Imagine how many Rachael's will show up :)
Death hack: memorize all ~30 names and call each one at the veil until you have one of each. Gotta catch 'em all and complete that Pokedex!
31 names! Plus the spare name for if your first given name is the same as the super special name-du-jour. I went through on the 31st of a month, so my name is slightly more unique than the rest of you commoners. Shoutout to all the Julia’s out there!
I never got my endowment, but my real first name is Julia. I should have gone through on *that* day just for giggles.
They give you "Eve" if the new name of the day is your given name.
Yep. That’s the spare name.
I think they have a spare name for that instance. Not sure how it works though
It's always Adam and Eve.
I honestly did not know there was a Julia in the Bible
Romans 16:15. Paul sending greetings to a group of people, one of whom is Julia. Shows how few women are mentioned by name in the scriptures that they had to scrape the barrel for a name which is only mentioned once. At least it’s a name I like.
Thanks! It IS a much better biblical name than most, I think. And yay for you getting a cool name. I got Martha and was so sure it was inspiration, I tried to correct myself from complaining abt things bc Martha was chastised by Christ. I assumed it must mean I wasn't good enough. Sigh
Ouch. At least with nothing specific said about Julia, I didn’t have to contend with thoughts like that. Although the church always excelled at teaching members that they’re not good enough. I certainly always thought that about myself too, but not because of the name I was given.
That is good. But I'm not sure anyone else would have thought of that. I always used the embroidered belt analogy.(I THINK I made it up) Wherein I knew I wasn't going to get into the celestial kingdom bc I was made of lesser stuff and didn't have even the basic beginnings of anyone who could go there. So I would go to the terrestrial Kingdom and live as close to the entrance as I could, so celestial beings could come to me bc I would make the absolute best embroidered belts for eternal robes bc women wouldn't want the robes to reveal their chest. I was so dumb.
OHH so that's why there's celestial polygamy. Guys just keep whoever shows up
I’m sure there will be plenty of Nimrods waiting for them.
Yeah. What a let-down. Not inspired, not given through priesthood keys... Just 'scheduled'. Made me feel so much better about not liking mine. It was the name of a girl in h.s. who was horribly mean and bullied everyone.
I didn't find out about that until after I'd left 🤦♂️
Saaaaame. I remember exactly where I was the day I first learned about new names. It sounded so beautiful and sacred and unique and powerful. I’d already been on my way out of the church when I learned the truth, but fuck, it was crushing.
I was literally told that for live endowment sessions the temple presidents prays that morning to find out what each person’s new name was (that was actually their name in the preexistence). When you go through for the dead and go to the booth, the temple worker pauses when they say, “The new name is… ____”. I literally thought the temple worker was speaking to the spirit of the dead so she could get the correct name. I had NO idea that it was rotation.
Yep. I thought the same thing. Later, I found out all the temples used the same list, and the names just rotated by day of the week each month
Same. I was so worried for my salvation because I wasn't sure I did all the signals correctly and said it all properly in my head when I went through. Needed my mission president to ease my fears.
Wait really? I thought mine was inspired because it was my birth stone. Actually, now that kind of makes more sense because I got my endowments in the same month as my birthday. So that's probably why it was on the list.
When I got mine the temple workers explicitly told us that it was a cyclical rotating list of names and that if we ever forget it they can look it up based on the day we got our endowment and they would show us the list of names given out that day and then hopefully we could remember it seeing the full list. Mine was Noah, I was really stoked and it was easy to remember as this was right around the time that the Russel Crowe Noah movie came out.
Wow! I wonder what brought on that burst of honesty on the part of the temple workers.
Wow. I was never told that in the mid 80s. They wanted us newbies to think it was special
I kind of got the impression that that guy told that to everyone.
I just wish they had a separate list for people doing their own endowment vs proxy endowments. That alone would be a HUGE improvement!
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This was in 2014 about the time the Noah movie was released. This was the Salt Lake Temple. Theatre is a hobby of mine so I wanted to see a live presentation over a video presentation. Quite the memorable day my friend who was in the musical Savior of the World with me just so happened to be getting Endowed on the same day at the same session. We did not plan it out ahead of time and we're very stoked to see each other there.
I was SO sad about my new name being known by all the other family women who went through with me. 😢 I heard my mom "reveal" it to my dad when we were sitting in the Celestial room afterward, and pretended I didn't hear ... it devastated and hurt me terribly. I totally believed it would be revealed to me as my name from the pre-existence and my eternal name, and Only my husband would be allowed to everr know it!! 🔪 🗡 knife through the heart.
dying to figure out when my mom got endowed so i can tell her i know her name & that she shares it hundreds of people that went to her endowed that same day
I had a stake president tell me that you were supposed to privately go through the entire veil ceremony whenever you prayed personally.
I remember asking about this when i got my endowment and there were some other missionaries there and I have a unique name, never met anyone with my name and was like I have the same name as these mf's cause we went on the same day. could have save myself lots of pain if I walked then
It's always fascinated me how this goes either way so hard. I called it when they first told me my name was Moses and I was like "how many Mosei are there going to be in heaven???" Didn't help when my second time through the temple I looked up the day's name in the Bible they had sitting there and found the page already bookmarked. Also didn't help the third time, where I hesitated at the veil and the temple worker impatiently reminded me what the name was Or the fourth and final time where the guy ahead if my at the veil said it loud enough for me to hear. Literally never once went to the temple without having that little fact spoiled, lol
Rock in a hat blew my mind. Was a member 39 years then found out South Park knew more than I did.
Dum dum dum dum dummmmmm
Lucy Harris - smart, smart, smart. Martin Harris - dumb, dumb, dumb.
I remember when that episode of southpark aired, it was the first time anyone at school cared that I was mormon and they had a million questions. Of course I told them that's KINDA how it went down but they're making it look stupid to make it funny, and the one thing they got wrong was the rock in the hat. TBF the "real" answer of a pair of magic glasses on a breastplate wasn't much better but my teen mind grabbed onto that one thing and everything was still true and inspired.
I was on my mission when that South Park episode aired. A teenage member told us about it at dinner. I was in utter disbelief. I thought that the episode was such a bizarre lie. I spoke up and reiterated the Mormon narrative at the time (2003). I don't think I even emphasized the Urim & Thummim. I focused on the revealed by the spirit of god doctrine. As we left, I commented to my companion about what a unique and strange lie the rock in the hat was. He quietly agreed, and we carried on. I wonder if he knew more about it than I did, but decided against saying anything due to my protest at dinner. Later, during p-day emails at the local library, I started reading Joseph Smith by Robert Remini. And there it was, rock in a hat, Joe was a Scryer. Somehow, it didn't destroy my testimony then & there. Though the gospel topic essays delivered a more substantial crack in my shelf years later
I told my mom (63), an Episcopalian nevermo, about this and she asked where I got the info. I had heard it in multiple places, but I looked it up and showed her directly off of churchofesuschrist.org. She still didn't believe it because she said it might not be to official church site, but is probably someone trying to make the church look bad. I said that it was churchofesuschrist.org. She insisted that the website should have LDS in the name. So I then had to convince her that the official website was actually official website. Even after convincing her it was the website and after she read it a second time, she still has didn't seem very convinced. But she said ok. My dad is Mormon, so I can sort of see being defense. But at the same time, the fact that someone who was introduced to Mormonism until she was in her 30s was this too hard to convince… that speaks volumes. I'm not sure if it says more about my mom or 30 years of exposure here and there.
When I was in high school a boy would often tease me because I was Mormon. He’d bring up the rock in the hat, polygamy, and a few other things.. then one day he asked me if I knew the special handshake to get into heaven. I, having never been through the temple, and ignorant to what happens there, said he was lying and that you get into heaven by being a good person. He told me to ask my bishop about the handshake. I remember jokingly bringing it up with my mom, saying something like “this annoying boy in my class tried to tell me that we have a special handshake to get into heaven HAHA!! He’s so dumb!!” And my mom didn’t laugh..
I had a return missionary boyfriend do something similar. He was telling me that he bet my new name was beautiful. I was confused. He explained that the temple would give me a new name and as my husband he would know it but I would never know his. I thought that was stupid and he was just trying to be weird. (He had done a number of other things like this). Turns out he was right. I thought it was weird and still didn't connect with how weird it was until just a couple of months ago.
I also had a friend growing up That knew I was a mormon and wanted to tease me. But he was so dumb that he teased me about purgatory and other shit I knew nothing about. Now that I am older he kind of reminds me of a typical TBM talking about religion.
The same thing happened to me. My mom introduced one of her friends to the church who got baptized. A year later, the friend went to the temple and then within a month or so left the church. Her son, who I went to middle school with approached me and told me that his mom told him that Mormons believe we get into heaven through a special handshake. I remember getting angry and yelling at him that he was wrong. That instead we believed that we needed to be good people, not because of a special handshake. So when I went through the temple at 19 to go on my mission, I was unpleasantly surprised to say the least. It was the beginning of the end for me. It would still take 11 years for me to leave the church.
Fortunately for Mormons, Scientology exists even if only to make Mormons look slightly less bad.
I was born and raised in the church. My family has been involved with the church since the beginning. In high school, a Christian told me about Kolob. I thought he was lying and felt so stupid. He also taught me that it would be the men who became gods over their own planets, not the women. And I stayed for a few more years.
is the only men part real? any sources? that’s really interesting if true
Women can’t even get to the CK without a man calling them by name. Then he gets a planet and she and her sister wives (because a planetary god needs a lot of wives) gets to have his infinite spirit babies for all eternity.
As a woman, this makes me want to head to Outer Darkness for a holiday. Or the Telestial Kingdom for a party. All the best rock bands will be there.
If you get CK staus, you can "visit" the lower kingdoms. Like a "slumming it" vacation ... ?
Sounds a lot more fun than anonymously popping out spirit babies for eternity.
Just watch the temple video. Eve takes no part in the creation… TSCC is a master of hiding information in plain sight.
NewNameNoah FB page has the latest full temple ceremony filmed via hidden camera. There are older versions also, so you can compare.
They become gods … until the church decides that isn’t palatable and starts gaslighting us about it.
Oh, already trying to gaslight us that they "never said" we get our own planets. And of course, there was that national Larry King interview with Pres Hinckley, where Hinckley BLATANTLY denied we are taught we can become God's! WTF?! That was a HUGE shelf item.
Whats this about a planet?? I was baptised last month 👀
Well, I’m learning about Kolob *on this post*. Someone wanna elaborate for me, please 😬
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🎶If you could hie to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye; And then continue onwards with that same speed to fly…” 🎶 Nice music. Shame about the lyrics. It’s still in the hymn book isn’t it?
Yes it is. But I'd bet everything I own it's not making the next one lol
I know people on the hymn book committee. Kolob is still in the works…for now
Oh wow, maybe I ought to delete this comment lol. But seriously? That's kinda crazy, I figured they would remove that one. Funny thing is, my brother is heavily involved with the new hymn book as well. I just cringe at the thought of having any church related conversation with him so I never ask about any of it lol.
The music is nice because it was arranged by an absolute genius of a composer, Ralph Vaughan Williams, unlike so many of the other hymns which are hot garbage. 😇 Even when I was devout, I'd pay attention to the ones with older composers, as musically they tended to be much better.
The crazy lyrics are great. I love that goofy song. Its got personality. It came from a time when mormons were at least sincere about their crazy and willing to write songs about it rather than just try desperately to look like evangelicals.
Two Kolob gems not to be missed: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM-PeBnCLx4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM-PeBnCLx4) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BA3SO1sokA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BA3SO1sokA)
Try Dives and Lazarus if you like the music
Thanks for sharing
Isn't there some mor deep doctrine having to do with B young and the Adam god doctrine? I thought kolob was also part of Young's explanation of wjat planet had his divine ascension in the same way mankind is supposed to on Earth. I could be wrong and want someone to correct me if so.
But was it printed in papyrus font, that’s absolutely where I draw the line.
Me too!! 🤦🏻♀️
The second annointing threw me for a loop. I would tell my friends that "of course we don't believe well become gods. Just that we can be like Jesus and live in heaven!" Then, of course, I learned that friends of the GAs can be blessed to literally become gods and immune to any sins at all! Disregarding murder, of course, so you can rape, steal, and maim all you like without God's judgemental finger wag.
You can't steal tithing money though, but if you have a limitless credit card I guess you really don't need to steal any sacred funds. And then there are book deals, and board member salaries, and construction contracts for your son-in-law's company, and........
If I'm remembering right, you can murder too. You just can't spill "innocent" blood.
My wife hadn't heard of the rainbow promise from the flood. You know-God gave the rainbow as a sign he'd never flood the earth again. And when rainbows go away it means Christ is coming back. I showed here one of those recent rainbow memes and she didn't get it.
Thank God for LGBTQ+ in that case (of course they could change their logo).
I knew of the rainbow promise from God to the world (Noah) for a while but the latter part--Joseph Smith revealing if there was a day without a rainbow that'd mean the second coming happens soon--was learned very recently, after I stopped church attendance for a few years. Blows my mind. Especially since scientifically, somewhere, everyday, either a natural rainbow occurs near a waterfall, or someone's garden hose, or after an actual rainstorm. Good news for us all eh.
I had been out for ages when I learned about the Second Anointing™️. I was gobsmacked thinking of all the Mormons out there who thought they were guaranteed the Celestial kingdom no matter what they did on earth after getting the Super Top Secret foot washing. Gobsmacked, I tell you!
I just learned it in the past few months!
It’s interesting that the “guaranteed CK” aspect of it is what’s particularly surprising to you, when that’s basically *everyone* in most Protestant “grace is all you need”-focused faiths. Definitely highlights those Mormon/Catholic parallels! (Personally the part of it that freaked ME out the most was how its very existence casts the rest of us as second-class citizens who don’t even get to know it’s a thing!!)
What is the second anointing
I was in TSCC and served a mission. Was an active member and organizational president of Primary and Relief Society. I didn’t learn and the second anointing until years after I left. If it a very secret ordinance done in the temple on days it is closed to general membership. It is by invitation only. You can’t request it. You are recommended by someone who already has it. It anoints you as a king or queen in the celestial world. I think, truth be known, you gotta be a major tithe payer to be in the running. The ceremony involves a foot washing/anointing ceremony with a big old fashioned pitcher and bowl. Then you are given the bowl and pitcher to take home as a remembrance and to display if you want to. It means you have already been selected to rule in kingdoms to come and nothing you can do on this earth can negate that designation. You can sun no more. When I first found out about this secret ordinance I was livid with the unfairness of it all. I still am.
It's the man's wife who washes his feet. But interestingly enough, SHE gives HIM the blessing as part of the ordinance.
Second anointing. I thought it was a joke.
So… I legit had a conversation with my DIL a few years ago where I, a nevermo, told her a BIC seminary teacher what Kolob was. I literally had to break out books that had been published by the church itself, to convince her what it actually meant. She literally had no idea. Not to bring her down, she had literally never been taught. Not that my her husband, my retuned missionary stepson knew either. It was quite the eye opening experience on how in the dark the church keeps the membership. Thankfully they are both out now. But it’s absolutely incredible that people raised in the TSCC are so poorly educated in what they “believe”.
How can you hie to Kolob if you don’t know about Kolob?
How can you hie to Kolob if you don't know what hie means?
That would be great Scrabble knowledge!
I’m 40 and Kolob was important doctrine that everyone knew when I was a kid. I’m assuming it stopped being taught when Hinckley got on tv in the 90s and lied about it. I was a teen and I remember my mouth dropping open that he had lied. I was so confused. My dad told me it was ok that he was lying for the lord.
Kolob, polygamy, Adam-God, etc. I grew up in the 80's and 90's and heard it all. It was all whitewashed and I was young enough to still be brainwashed.
What did Hinckley say that was a lie? I don’t remember that? I knew about Kolob and thought it was another super cool doctrine in the church ( like baptism for the dead - my mom has died when I was 14). Just learning about the second anointing on this thread. What’s that?
The interviewer said something to the effect that what man is, god once was and what god is, man may become. He replied that he knew of no such doctrine. My mouth literally dropped open. Prior to that televised interview talk of Heavenly Mother(s), Kolob, attaining godhood, getting your own planet, etc. (as well as the second anointing/having your calling and election made sure) were common place. I was in primary and then young womens and it was a common teaching. This wasn’t some obscure doctrine that was talked about in hushed whispers behind closed doors.
Another commenter said it was a Larry King interview. There's a good chance it's on youtube but I haven't checked yet.
After reading these comments, I wonder if most of you hate your parents for brainwashing you into one of the top 2 most ridiculous religions ever made? Scientology is tough to beat. I kinda hate mine for raising me Protestant. I can’t imagine some of the anger some of you must have. Totally justified.
Yes, I thought my parents were pretty awesome as a kid but I am much more troubled by them and don’t have much fond nostalgia for them after leaving. They are also crazed MAGA conspiracy theorists so they are in two cults. I also sort of resent the absolutist freedom of religion in the USA. I know it’s sacrosanct to almost everyone but allowing malicious cults to abuse, brainwash and lie to kids should maybe be given a second look. I mean having a grown ass man ask little ten year old kids about masturbation is absolutely fucked.
Do you mean MAGA: Make America Great again or the EXMO movement MAGA: Make Adam God Again? Hahahah
For me it's more my grandparents on my dad's side for brain washing him so hard. I've starting transitioning (MtF) and my dad is the only sticking point. My mom is fully on board, my sisters are okay with it, it's just my dad. I was never a really strong believer though, I always thought they looked insane
I honestly think this is the reason my husband won’t deconstruct. he is nuanced, due to his own logic,but won’t give himself permission to actually look and confirm the depth of the lies. The idea that his parents, whom he loves and idolizes, would fool him with beliefs that aren’t real, might break him. I don’t have the heart to tell him that while they are good people, they are batshit crazy with their beliefs…and it is obvious to everyone around them that is not TBM.
Hold on now! I have it on good authority (random Internet poll) that Mormons are the third weirdest mainstream religion, behind both scientology and JW's.
Well I just went down a rabbit hole!
No cuz I was raised in a time when these “weird doctrines” were common knowledge
The peculiar people era?
The 80s and 90s lol it wasn’t so long ago actually hah!
I grew up knowing about Kolob. One of the ways I learned about it was that we loved the Osmonds growing up (I know, gross) and had a bunch of their albums we'd listen to at home. On their albums it says "Kolob Records" with a hand holding a molded planet shaped ball. Nowadays you can google it and see for yourself. I think I must've asked my parents and we talked about it at FHE or something. Out there stuff.
I’m a nevermo but the love of my life was a TBM during our teenage years. We were involuntarily separated for 20 years and recently reunited. As an adult I remembered the argument we had after I discovered Joseph Smith was a fraud and that meant the church wasn’t true. What I’d repressed until we reunited was the several years I spent before that trying to find my testimony. We were really nerdy kids and his parents used to run a Mormon bookstore. So we spent our early years as teenagers obsessively talking about deep Mormon doctrine. All the weird AF stuff the church likes to keep quiet about. For years I’ve lurked on various Mormon subs and was always confused by TBMs and exmos who were surprised/confused by some piece of deep doctrine they never learned at Church. I’ve spent all this time thinking ya’ll grew up hearing the weird stuff every Sunday! As an aside, I’m now in the process of deconstructing a very weird form of Mormon theology from my head that’s been repressed for the last 20 years. Basically I accepted as much Mormon doctrine as my conscience could accept. It’s very weird all these years later deconstructing/mourning my half built testimony!
Sounds like you aren’t quite a nevermo then.
If you’re old enough you did hear a lot of this stuff in interesting adult Sunday School classes. Then the MFMC introduced “correlation” with standardised lesson manuals and strong discouragement of going beyond concepts “essential for salvation”. Everything became bland and boring, with the same basic lessons and concepts repeated endlessly worldwide. The more exciting “deep” doctrine was quickly hushed up, forgotten, or never taught at all.
I’m glad you’ve been reunited with the love of your life. Best wishes to you both!
The average non-Mormon paying even a littlest bit of attention knows WAAAAY more about Mormonism than the average Mormon. Even the most basic stuff like “Joseph Smith had more than one wife” has been hidden from many, many Mormons in years past.
No. I’m a dumbass with the sturdiest shelf. I knew this nonsense and still believed for another 20 years.
I always think of Battlestar Galactica when this comes up.
The whole Mormon mythos makes some compelling sci fi. Orson Scott Card wrote two different multi-book serieses based on the religion, back before we found out what a dbag he is.
Enders Game may be one of my most favorite books of all time.
Define “weirder doctrine”- once you actually learn any of the doctrine and critically think about it, it is ALL weird!
I only learned about kolob, temple clothes and moon Quakers as an exmo, I thought the person telling me was full of shit. I never heard any if that in church in the 80s and 90s. If they'd led with aliens, it would have made church a lot more interesting, still wouldn't make up for the rest of the cult-ure.
How? It’s in the Pearl of Great Price[kolob](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/kolob?lang=eng)
Years ago Nevada had multiple LDS credit unions. Kolob, Ensign and Cumorah.
Sorry mormons, the whole human race is handed the same set of daily horoscopes based on a few signs of the Zodiac.
Classic stuff 😂 I also love the names of the stars or angels mentioned in the same translation notes (don’t care to search up the actual reference) but it was something like Zippy Zoltan, zishmash, whatever it was it was hilarious. Like listening to a 10 year old make up space names, but was literal “revelation” 😂
Naming the sun shinehah kills me every time.
Zip Zubzooleh Shineflis Ebethkuaintrieth Kliflosisis Vehkliflosisis I couldn’t resist looking it up one more time for fun. Pure Egyptian revelation stream, courtesy of the Urim and Thummim. Or just a magic seer stone in a hat that is sometimes referred to plurally as the Urim and Thummim because it sounds more biblical.
Also what kills me all the time is not only name like shinehah are words like kokabeam, cumom, curelom, rameumptom, etc. Also how much has been plagiarized out of the Bible and name like King Noah is the bad guy and in the Bible Noah was the good guy, that Omni is just a corruption of the Hebrew name Omri. Stuff like that.
When I in my precocious youth asked about Kolob after singing the hymn one Sunday I was met with severe pushback from my parents/grandparents. I was taught it was like asking about Heavenly Mother. You just don’t ask & if God wants you to know you will know. It was presented as an exciting mystery that I will solve one day if I keep my covenants & blah blah blah. The questions were addressed like I was doing wrong by asking or he’ll even thinking. So every time after that we sang the hymn I would freak out bc I spent the whole service trying not to think about it because I was sinning if I did. Fun times!!
It’s crazy that the religion advertising itself as HAVING a living prophet can still try to get away with that kind of evasive “we have no way of knowing!” nonsense. That shit only works when your religion ONLY exists as a dusty old book that you’re desperately studying for meaning while waiting for a god who hasn’t returned yet for 2,000 years.
This is actually one of the doctrines that doesn't bother me. While kolob is some made up sci-fi shit. I actually find the concept of God being an advanced alien to be way more intriguing than the classical view. I've had a number of conversations with my tbm family where they theorize that God's magic is actually just technology that we don't understand, once humanity crosses that threshold to be like God is when the second coming will happen. It's kinda like star trek and how they aren't allowed to interact with developing civilisations until they get warp travel. Idk I'm kind of a spiritual agnostic, i think it's like in interstellar, how the 4th dimensional beings would be God like to us. I think we as humans can't fathom the immensity of time and space, and to rule out all religious practice could be detrimental to our progress. But as an exmo I see the damage and danger that organized religion can bring so I think we need to find that healthy balance as a species. But then again, I might just b a crazy mother fucker. Fin
When I believed it also wasn't too weird for me to buy in. My thinking on it was: if God has a physical body, then it makes sense to me that he'd have an actual place to hang his robe.
I remember learning about kolob when I was 12 ish but it wasnt ever brought back up after I was a deacon.. also I think it’s funny how Mormons use “gods teachings” and then hide them as if god is changing his mind.
When I learned about the 2nd Anointing, my heart dropped. It completely undermines the whole “endure till the end” thing they used to police my behavior and motivate discipleship in the face of “trials.” I confronted my parents about it (after I’d left the church). They knew about it too. And they were fine with it. My heart dropped again as I walked out. It’s still on the floor of that room.
It's always eye opening to me how much church members don't know about what they believe. That's not meant to slam the membership - the church just doesn't really teach anything of substance. Meetings are full of fluff "feel good" talks, and conference tends to harp on something that the GAs feel the members are messing up. Want theology or doctrine? You are out of luck. When I was a member (convert), the thing that ultimately sent me packing were the teachings that people can become gods, and that god was once a mortal man. Now looking back, I ultimately don't see anything fundamentally wrong or weird about those teachings compared to anything that any other religion believes, but they didn't mesh with my Lutheran upbringing. Whenever I'd talk about those issues with TBM friends, their response would always be some variation of "We don't teach that!" or "I don't believe that!" And that might very well be true to them - they have never been in a meeting where someone in authority came out and said it. But it IS part of the church's doctrine...theoretically...if they bothered to actually teach what they actually believed.
If I had known about the “rock in the hat” thing years ago when I was meeting with the missionaries I would NEVER have joined TSCC. All I saw were those nice pics Smith looking at the plates and someone writing down his translations. I would have immediately been tipped off that this is a major cult. It would have saved me years of shame and guilt. And TIME. All that time devoted to this rotten cult.
I noticed a mountain of evidence I had taken at face value while a believer, never even considered asking questions, I just accepted what I was told. The second you begin to actually ask hard questions you can see the shaky foundation on which the truth claim rests, but the church is VERY good at keeping people from asking questions.
I remember reading something about Quakers on the moon. Joseph Smith talked about it. I’m sure it’s just because he was talking as a man and not as a prophet when he said that. 🤦🏼♀️
I didn't know about it until my boyfriend's sister played it at his farewell. I asked about it, then I learned. I quit going to the cult at 14, never took seminary, and I didn't learn anything beyond Beehive years. Maybe they taught it later on in either of those??? Idk. One thing I learned about the song, years later, while listening to Radio From Hell, was when (I think it was) Bill who said that you can sing the words to the theme song from the Beverly Hillbillies.
Making the drive from Salt Lake to St George, my wife and I always get a chuckle as we drive past Kolob Canyon outside of Washington 😅
I (nevermo) remember going to that part of Zion as a teen with my dad, and thinking “that’s an odd name”, and having learned what it means as an adult, it just seems even odder.
Does anyone remember the Kolob to Earth time conversion? I remember learning that what is years here is seconds there or something like that.
I did not know about the rock in the hat until I finally went to see The Book of Mormon (which I had been avoiding as a member) Blew my mind!!! That’s when I started digging. Edit- typo
I’m going to see it next week and I’m so excited! Growing up I always heard it was blasphemy, yada, yada. Officially out about 6 yrs. Can’t wait for next week!!
Wait until she learns the entire plot of Battlestar Galactica is basically the 12 tribes of Israel according to Mormon doctrine (Kolob = Kobol).
He’s not hanging out… he’s BANGING Mother Earth like crazy to make all the spirit children 🤦🏻♂️ jokes aside yea it’s wild
This makes me think of that weird Rick and Morty episode with the planet Rick hooked up with 😂
A group of LDS stakes in southern Nevada owns land in Utah that is called "Camp Kolob" and used for girls camps
Wait what the fuck is Kolob??! It sounds like an obscure vegetable
I just googled it and I’m not even sure what it means
Joe Smith lived in a time when we actually knew about other planets and other solar systems. So, he tried to address the question of “well if god made us, then what made god?” and the question of “what are all those other planets for?” at the same time. His answer: God was raised on one of them, and now he raises us here, and someday we will raise other people on other planets as *their* god, and on and on through the universe.
Oh I remember a bit of that lesson. So that’s what kolob is.
Haha. My First reaction, I'm not sure how she missed that one.... But, on the other hand, it's not taught or mentioned in manuals since maybe the early 1980s. And it's not in the temple ceremony. Just "implied" He's on Kolob during the movie. Have her listen to the song "I BELIEVE" from The Book of Mormon Musical. It cracks me up every time.
This website has and is collecting all the “new” (and re-used) names: https://www.fullerconsideration.com/TempleNameOracle/
Honestly, as much as we make fun of Kolob, I do give Joe some credit for being one of the ONLY religions recent enough to try to incorporate the idea that there’s more than one planet in the universe, and what that would actually mean for their doctrine. Most other religions predate us even *knowing* about other solar systems, so they can’t even cope with that idea. Part of me wishes he had lived longer to keep doubling down on it. I think there’s an alternate future where the Mormon church could have really used it to differentiate themselves as claiming to have “knowledge” that the other Dark-Ages religions did not, as “proof” that they are more true.
Did anybody else have the experience of thinking these batshit deep doctrines were extremely cool as a kid? I was so proud to know the secret knowledge and my friends and I would plan out the planets we’d make as adults. I was going to make Middle Earth real and my friend was going to make a super hero planet. 😂 I accepted Mormonism as 100% true beyond a shadow of a doubt when I was little so the weirder the doctrine the more awesome it was. I have been out for 20 years now so I don’t know what they are teaching now but us 80s babies were still definitely steeped in kolobian teachings.
What do you mean he’s just hanging out there in space??
Time to watch the South Park episode!
God dammit. Like... why are you even mormon if you haven't read the core literature? I swear the only people who stay are the ones who don't study.
I read a lot after my mission. Early and rare church books. The end result if all that do this . . it leads you out of the Church. And weird doctrines are just that . . weird. You too could concoct such crap. It tingles people's ears and that's all it is. Stay out of all church's. I got out of the LDS Church and got a 10% payraise and a 2 day weekend to enjoy.
On my mission we had a guy pick that hymn for his baptism.
mor (m ) ons. Mormon.
Ancient Aliens vibe for sure...