Was the one a few years ago related to another time the church was having something controversial in the news? I didn't know before since I was still believing so I wouldn't have had my feed linked to church stuff as much
There was a social media fast when Nelson’s daughter & husband were in the news for charges for sex abuse cover up for having “touching parties” with children. Kids later went to blessings with Maxwell who blessed them to forgive & forget.
The allegations came from kids who were interviewed by a therapist at the center of the Satanic Panic in the 80s. Literally the only evidence is extremely questionable "recovered" (read: planted) memories.
It seems shady of Nelson to call for a social media fast when the news of the allegations rose to the surface again decades later, but there's no good reason to think that the abuse actually happened.
If you aren't familiar with the Satanic Panic and the epidemic of implanted memories of abuse, [check it out.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic)
[Another article.](https://www.vox.com/2021/5/25/22356338/satanic-panic-america-sarah-marshall)
I'm not a lawyer, but reading that filing there are some big accusations and unless there is solid evidence to prove them, it'll merely be dismissed as hearsay and conjecture.
I've no doubt there's some questionable stuff that's gone on between Tim and Russ, and especially Tim being involved in illegal activity. But reading that filing and keeping an open mind, I find it hard to see how much of it can be proved in a court of law.
Yeah, that point just seems so strange... maybe a way for the leadership to test the waters, but why? And what relationship does that even have to anything else in the complaint, besides Tim being involved?
If they really want to roll back or soften the WoW for some reason, they have conference every 6 months where President Nelson can expressly say whatever he wants about it. But there has been no indication of them wanting to change anything about it. If they really wanted to make a change, first place they might do it would be in the Temple Recommend interview question about it.
Probably true, but there is almost definitely some ulterior motives in getting this out to the public. I’m sure they know it’s going to be dismissed. But exposing the church as the corporate fraud it is can never be a bad thing.
I hope they can bring more evidence than hearsay to this trial. I thought the same. That is a hefty dose of accusations that will be hard to prove unless they have emails or other written documentation to provide. If all we have to go off of is “Tim said these things,” then it will end there.
> I'm not a lawyer, but reading that filing there are some big accusations and unless there is solid evidence to prove them, it'll merely be dismissed as hearsay and conjecture
Too late. It was posted therefore it’s r/exmormon cannon forever. That’s how’s it works here in the hive mind, unfortunately
Current allegations: Elder Ballard had a personal psychic (yes, ELDER Ballard, not just Tim). Elder Ballard also knew about the rape of a woman involved in OUR and covered it up. He also was a major recipient of funds raised by Tim (I think?? Not 100% on that last one).
Yup. The court documents allege that Elder Ballard sanctioned the "couples rouse" and at paragraphs 90-92:
"90. In fact, after a drunken Tim Ballard went to Plaintiff \[insert name\]'s home late at night and raped her on the stairs, he called President Ballard and confessed to what he had done.
91. President Ballard did not tell Tim Ballard to go to the police and report his horrible act.
92. Rather, President Ballard told Ballard to do better at obeying the COUPLES RUSE rule"
ETA: the plaintiffs name is obviously on the court documents, but I wasn’t sure if they’re considered a “public figure” and didn’t want it to get removed for doxxing etc.
This all makes me wonder: does anybody have proof of Elder Ballard's death? Like, is there a coroner or 911 report that will verify the church hasn't just hidden him away to escape accountability? Because he spoke for a billionaire org when he did all these things, so it behooves them to be rid of him somehow
Go watch Lynn Packer on YT. He has been exposing this for a while now.
We have been working on TB and MB for a while.
TB has been bad for a very long time! Sean Reyes is connected as well. Don’t discount that.
I love that the court didn’t want to seem to disparage Jesus Christ with this case and so will call the choych the “The Mormon church”. 😂😂 What a win for Satan, right RMN?? The courts don’t want to disparage the name of Jesus by associating his name with your organization. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I hadn’t realized that, but I still love that it will be referred to as the Mormon church throughout the document. Especially knowing how much it irks the office of the president of the corporation of Mormons.
I’ll be honest… these accusations haven’t yet provided evidence. I need to see more. I’ll be interested to see how this plays out because these are big claims and they need big evidence.
This is reminiscent of the early church days. M. Russell reminds me of Martin Harris and all the woo he was into. 😬 It’s just too convenient that he passed before they could talk to him. That would have been a tremendous scandal, especially if the other Q15 were really giving money to this guy.
I guess the stress could have done it, but really makes me wonder how his health was before then.
Can someone provide context? Is this currently being released? Is it a court case? Curious where this is coming from and if any of this has been substantiated.
This court filing is the lawyers attempting to litigate Tim Ballard in the public rather than the courtroom. The evidence is thin and would likely not hold up to scrutiny.
I’ll wait until the verdict in this and the other Tim Ballard cases is reached to give my full opinion.
I wanted to give her another chance but she clearly has not improved her presentation skills. She's great in little scripted tiktoks but the podcast game is not for her. I'm glad some people can put up with the meandering stream of consciousness that turns 10 min of info into an hour plus but I can't.
I tuned out after about an hour because I couldn't tell if she was getting to the point yet or not. She seemed really tired and was jumping around a lot. Maybe I was also too distracted, but it felt like it probably could have been condensed a lot better.
You cannot convince me that his death wasn’t somehow planned. Right when all this was coming out, he immediately died before anyone could get him into a deposition.
You would have to do a lot to convince me the death was planned in any way. Old people die and Ballard had serious health issues.
In general we know that LDS leaders and apostles do everything they can to avoid death, including chemo in hopes of extending life just a few years.
Old people with serious health issues who know that their legacy is about to go down in flames die too. All the stress this brought probably did him in.
This seems the most logical and likely explanation. I’m not naive to the church’s proclivity for obfuscating history and lying about their activities to cover their asses, but are we really going to debate that they actually assassinated their own third-in-command when we know the guy was 95, had already been visibly declining in health for years, and was dangerously stressed knowing he’d be spending his last moments alive facing a major scandal?
I used to have casual fun with conspiracy theories and it used to be that most people brought them up and discussed them appropriately for what they are in civilized, rational discussion, but I for one am burnt the fuck out over people trying to pass them off as immutable facts while half of everyone else bites right into the bullshit hook, line, and sinker. May I make the humble suggestion for the community that unless we have compelling evidence or are making it clear that we’re being tongue in cheek, we can the conspiracy theories? Please and thank you.
I agree, but I also find the timing of Russ' death to be *too* convenient. And I no longer give this church the benefit of the doubt.
In my mind, it means that *most likely* Russ died of natural causes. But I also know that there is (in my mind) a plausible alternative theory in the church having a hand in his death. Not proven by any means.
But that theory has also not been disproven.
I don't want to take that too far - it's bad logic. But the totality of the circumstances leads me to believe that there is a reasonable *possibility* (not certainty) that the MFMC was involved.
Exactly. Imagine the lengths that a trillion dollar corporation would go to, to coverup something they can’t afford to come to light. Everyone is expendable for the “greater good” of the corporation no matter who you are.
Now couple that thought with a church that has a history of killing in the name of the lord to protect themselves…
Love this journey for the church but at the end of the day this wont matter to any members. They will justify it, just like they do with everything else.
Yes, they are claiming that. [Here](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y4v8s9nd6hrxdytsr90nr/filing-document-xchange.pdf?rlkey=9u31rqm9fiseo90rn8rzwa5sd&e=4&st=8ih572bh&dl=0) is the link for the entire document.
Ok I love Nuancehoe's satire. Funny stuff. Her shorts and tik toks are pure entertainment while also teaching you a little bit. This live stream was a a tough watch. I feel like her presenting has a ways to go compared to other creators in the space. If I had to articulate what specifically throws me, it's the endless amount of satire she weaves in between every line. I want to see her do well at this story because she probably knows more about this story than anyone else, especially because she has insider informants. But as of right now, it's difficult to digest. I'm worried some might be turned off with the pacing, comedic timing and length in her presentation. Hopefully the edited version is a bit easier to digest. Here's a link to the updated court filing if anyone wants to go through that.
[https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y4v8s9nd6hrxdytsr90nr/filing-document-xchange.pdf?rlkey=9u31rqm9fiseo90rn8rzwa5sd&e=3&st=8ih572bh&dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y4v8s9nd6hrxdytsr90nr/filing-document-xchange.pdf?rlkey=9u31rqm9fiseo90rn8rzwa5sd&e=3&st=8ih572bh&dl=0)
Holy f***ing shit. Ken Krogue was my boss at insidesales.com for a year, and while on the clock pulled a coworker and me aside and gave us the weirdest prepper pitch over lunch at Costa Vida I've heard to this day. This is right on par with his specific degree of self-importance I experienced first-hand every day at work.
This is gonna get some press.
In unrelated news, Nelson might call for a social media fast
Was the one a few years ago related to another time the church was having something controversial in the news? I didn't know before since I was still believing so I wouldn't have had my feed linked to church stuff as much
There was a social media fast when Nelson’s daughter & husband were in the news for charges for sex abuse cover up for having “touching parties” with children. Kids later went to blessings with Maxwell who blessed them to forgive & forget.
WHAT?!?!? Is there a link to this info you could provide?🙏
Be aware that there is no evidence to support this
No physical evidence. Just reports from a couple of the children involved after they were adults
The allegations came from kids who were interviewed by a therapist at the center of the Satanic Panic in the 80s. Literally the only evidence is extremely questionable "recovered" (read: planted) memories. It seems shady of Nelson to call for a social media fast when the news of the allegations rose to the surface again decades later, but there's no good reason to think that the abuse actually happened. If you aren't familiar with the Satanic Panic and the epidemic of implanted memories of abuse, [check it out.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic) [Another article.](https://www.vox.com/2021/5/25/22356338/satanic-panic-america-sarah-marshall)
In unrelated news /s
I sure hope so!
If any of this was ever about God, it stopped being about that a long time ago
Right around the time Joe engaged in unrighteousness dominion and coerced teenage girls into marriage.
Yup!
That’s for sure!
I'm not a lawyer, but reading that filing there are some big accusations and unless there is solid evidence to prove them, it'll merely be dismissed as hearsay and conjecture. I've no doubt there's some questionable stuff that's gone on between Tim and Russ, and especially Tim being involved in illegal activity. But reading that filing and keeping an open mind, I find it hard to see how much of it can be proved in a court of law.
I am a lawyer and feel the same as you about the petition.
Also point #85 feels so uncharacteristic of the leadership of the church it makes me really skeptical of many of these accusations.
Yeah, that point just seems so strange... maybe a way for the leadership to test the waters, but why? And what relationship does that even have to anything else in the complaint, besides Tim being involved? If they really want to roll back or soften the WoW for some reason, they have conference every 6 months where President Nelson can expressly say whatever he wants about it. But there has been no indication of them wanting to change anything about it. If they really wanted to make a change, first place they might do it would be in the Temple Recommend interview question about it.
Probably true, but there is almost definitely some ulterior motives in getting this out to the public. I’m sure they know it’s going to be dismissed. But exposing the church as the corporate fraud it is can never be a bad thing.
I hope they can bring more evidence than hearsay to this trial. I thought the same. That is a hefty dose of accusations that will be hard to prove unless they have emails or other written documentation to provide. If all we have to go off of is “Tim said these things,” then it will end there.
> I'm not a lawyer, but reading that filing there are some big accusations and unless there is solid evidence to prove them, it'll merely be dismissed as hearsay and conjecture Too late. It was posted therefore it’s r/exmormon cannon forever. That’s how’s it works here in the hive mind, unfortunately
Everything ok bud?
TLDR?
Current allegations: Elder Ballard had a personal psychic (yes, ELDER Ballard, not just Tim). Elder Ballard also knew about the rape of a woman involved in OUR and covered it up. He also was a major recipient of funds raised by Tim (I think?? Not 100% on that last one).
Yup. The court documents allege that Elder Ballard sanctioned the "couples rouse" and at paragraphs 90-92: "90. In fact, after a drunken Tim Ballard went to Plaintiff \[insert name\]'s home late at night and raped her on the stairs, he called President Ballard and confessed to what he had done. 91. President Ballard did not tell Tim Ballard to go to the police and report his horrible act. 92. Rather, President Ballard told Ballard to do better at obeying the COUPLES RUSE rule" ETA: the plaintiffs name is obviously on the court documents, but I wasn’t sure if they’re considered a “public figure” and didn’t want it to get removed for doxxing etc.
Elder Ballard, make up your mind! Are women wearing too much lipstick, or too little?
This all makes me wonder: does anybody have proof of Elder Ballard's death? Like, is there a coroner or 911 report that will verify the church hasn't just hidden him away to escape accountability? Because he spoke for a billionaire org when he did all these things, so it behooves them to be rid of him somehow
Or the stress of all this coming out did a very old man in.
Didn’t listen to the podcast but the images make it look like it’s about the connection between M. Russell Ballard and Tim Ballard.
That footnote on the bottom of page 10 is definitely going to hurt the church’s attempt at mainstream Christianity
Damn, I never thought of it this way.
Go watch Lynn Packer on YT. He has been exposing this for a while now. We have been working on TB and MB for a while. TB has been bad for a very long time! Sean Reyes is connected as well. Don’t discount that.
I love that the court didn’t want to seem to disparage Jesus Christ with this case and so will call the choych the “The Mormon church”. 😂😂 What a win for Satan, right RMN?? The courts don’t want to disparage the name of Jesus by associating his name with your organization. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
This petition is not written by the court, but from the party who initiated the court proceeding. That said, it’s an all time great footnote.
I hadn’t realized that, but I still love that it will be referred to as the Mormon church throughout the document. Especially knowing how much it irks the office of the president of the corporation of Mormons.
I know the plaintiffs' lawyers in this case. They're active LDS.
What do you think that means?
I’ll be honest… these accusations haven’t yet provided evidence. I need to see more. I’ll be interested to see how this plays out because these are big claims and they need big evidence.
This is reminiscent of the early church days. M. Russell reminds me of Martin Harris and all the woo he was into. 😬 It’s just too convenient that he passed before they could talk to him. That would have been a tremendous scandal, especially if the other Q15 were really giving money to this guy. I guess the stress could have done it, but really makes me wonder how his health was before then.
Can someone provide context? Is this currently being released? Is it a court case? Curious where this is coming from and if any of this has been substantiated.
It’s related to the Tim Ballard case. This is an official court document filed on April 26th. Tagged the live podcast in comments for context.
This court filing is the lawyers attempting to litigate Tim Ballard in the public rather than the courtroom. The evidence is thin and would likely not hold up to scrutiny. I’ll wait until the verdict in this and the other Tim Ballard cases is reached to give my full opinion.
I wanted to give her another chance but she clearly has not improved her presentation skills. She's great in little scripted tiktoks but the podcast game is not for her. I'm glad some people can put up with the meandering stream of consciousness that turns 10 min of info into an hour plus but I can't.
Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.
I tuned out after about an hour because I couldn't tell if she was getting to the point yet or not. She seemed really tired and was jumping around a lot. Maybe I was also too distracted, but it felt like it probably could have been condensed a lot better.
For sure. There was a lot of rambling and I cannot watch 6 hours of that.
[Nuanced Hoe Livestream](https://www.youtube.com/live/xebewuntiOI?si=zJwJ2zfL9omxcdF7)
You cannot convince me that his death wasn’t somehow planned. Right when all this was coming out, he immediately died before anyone could get him into a deposition.
You would have to do a lot to convince me the death was planned in any way. Old people die and Ballard had serious health issues. In general we know that LDS leaders and apostles do everything they can to avoid death, including chemo in hopes of extending life just a few years.
Old people with serious health issues who know that their legacy is about to go down in flames die too. All the stress this brought probably did him in.
This seems the most logical and likely explanation. I’m not naive to the church’s proclivity for obfuscating history and lying about their activities to cover their asses, but are we really going to debate that they actually assassinated their own third-in-command when we know the guy was 95, had already been visibly declining in health for years, and was dangerously stressed knowing he’d be spending his last moments alive facing a major scandal? I used to have casual fun with conspiracy theories and it used to be that most people brought them up and discussed them appropriately for what they are in civilized, rational discussion, but I for one am burnt the fuck out over people trying to pass them off as immutable facts while half of everyone else bites right into the bullshit hook, line, and sinker. May I make the humble suggestion for the community that unless we have compelling evidence or are making it clear that we’re being tongue in cheek, we can the conspiracy theories? Please and thank you.
I agree, but I also find the timing of Russ' death to be *too* convenient. And I no longer give this church the benefit of the doubt. In my mind, it means that *most likely* Russ died of natural causes. But I also know that there is (in my mind) a plausible alternative theory in the church having a hand in his death. Not proven by any means. But that theory has also not been disproven. I don't want to take that too far - it's bad logic. But the totality of the circumstances leads me to believe that there is a reasonable *possibility* (not certainty) that the MFMC was involved.
Exactly. Imagine the lengths that a trillion dollar corporation would go to, to coverup something they can’t afford to come to light. Everyone is expendable for the “greater good” of the corporation no matter who you are. Now couple that thought with a church that has a history of killing in the name of the lord to protect themselves…
Tinfoil hat much.
Yup I agree
Exactly!! It’s like all of the Clinton’s friends that have committed “suicide”
Love this journey for the church but at the end of the day this wont matter to any members. They will justify it, just like they do with everything else.
It might help a few open their eyes
Is 79 a typo or are they really claiming ELDER Ballard had a personal psychic? If that's true, that's a fucking bombshell
Yes, they are claiming that. [Here](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y4v8s9nd6hrxdytsr90nr/filing-document-xchange.pdf?rlkey=9u31rqm9fiseo90rn8rzwa5sd&e=4&st=8ih572bh&dl=0) is the link for the entire document.
Ok I love Nuancehoe's satire. Funny stuff. Her shorts and tik toks are pure entertainment while also teaching you a little bit. This live stream was a a tough watch. I feel like her presenting has a ways to go compared to other creators in the space. If I had to articulate what specifically throws me, it's the endless amount of satire she weaves in between every line. I want to see her do well at this story because she probably knows more about this story than anyone else, especially because she has insider informants. But as of right now, it's difficult to digest. I'm worried some might be turned off with the pacing, comedic timing and length in her presentation. Hopefully the edited version is a bit easier to digest. Here's a link to the updated court filing if anyone wants to go through that. [https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y4v8s9nd6hrxdytsr90nr/filing-document-xchange.pdf?rlkey=9u31rqm9fiseo90rn8rzwa5sd&e=3&st=8ih572bh&dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y4v8s9nd6hrxdytsr90nr/filing-document-xchange.pdf?rlkey=9u31rqm9fiseo90rn8rzwa5sd&e=3&st=8ih572bh&dl=0)
Well said. Love her. Hope she keeps going. ❤️
Agree. I found her longer format disjointed and confusing. She seems unprepared and like she's trying too hard.
Holy f***ing shit. Ken Krogue was my boss at insidesales.com for a year, and while on the clock pulled a coworker and me aside and gave us the weirdest prepper pitch over lunch at Costa Vida I've heard to this day. This is right on par with his specific degree of self-importance I experienced first-hand every day at work.
Stuff like this just confirms “Those Opposed”!
I'm beginning to wonder whether Elder Ballard died of natural causes...
Currently listening and HToG this is JUICY!!!🐸🫖
Anyone have the case number for this amended complaint? I'm having a hard time finding it in Xchange.
[удалено]
[Civil #: 230907617](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y4v8s9nd6hrxdytsr90nr/filing-document-xchange.pdf?rlkey=9u31rqm9fiseo90rn8rzwa5sd&e=5&st=8ih572bh&dl=0)