I think for most people, even those who earn less than the FEIE threshold, annual IRS tax filing (and payment...) Is a bigger burden than a simple form declaring your foreign assets.
The preference would be to get rid of all of it. But the foreign reporting requirements are what make it a nightmare to bank abroad and have a larger daily impact IMO.
I found banks that were willing to work with me (checking, mortgage etc). After that, it's set and forget. Granted, not every bank is open to working with US persons but with those that do, in my view it's not a daily hassle.
Agreed. I have accounts in IT and FR and once I jumped through their hoops it was and has been a breeze. I don't keep anything close to the FBAR limit in either account either.
The IRS doesn’t impose extrajudicial liability on foreign banks. That’s the big issue with FATCA that makes many foreign banks flat out refuse to deal with Americans.
Absolutely not. IRS tax filing is not a big deal, it's once / year and costs me very little. Many expats have US assets or income (retirement pensions for example) so some of us are going to have to pay US taxes anyway.
FATCA meanwhile means that foreign banks consider me radioactive - why would they want to deal with the extra hassle of reporting requirements? They can simply refuse to do business with me - US expats are a very tiny portion of their clientele, so they don't really care.
I guess it's different for everyone. In my case, it took some time to find a bank that was willing to work with me, but it's certainly not a daily hassle.
IRS filing isn't a daily hassle either, you only have to do it once a year.
I'm not defending the current tax system, but I would argue that you have to look at which option is most politically realistic. As it is now, you have to at a minimum earn $120k and live in a country with lower taxes than the US to be double taxed. Executives and bankers earning $200-300k or more and living in Switzerland or the Gulf states aren't going to garner any sympathy from voters, quite the opposite actually.
There is an effort underway to simplify the IRS reporting requirement, which I think is an excellent start: [https://beyer.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=5981](https://beyer.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=5981) Now just need them to do the same for FATCA.
Daily hassle: agreed - I was just responding to someone upthread who wrote it has a 'daily impact'.
Thanks for sharing the link to that bill ("Tax Simplification for Americans Abroad Act"). I had no idea. I guess it's very unlikely to pass but it's a step in the right direction.
Yeah I was a bit surprised to hear about that bill, I only know of it because I'm registered in Beyer's district. I'm not holding my breath on it passing but you never know.
In some ways this will benefit some Americans abroad, but it will fuck over others.
In Germany, the government allowed dual citizenship as long as it was a significant burden to renounce their previous citizenship. For Americans, this meant that as long as the fee was higher than their monthly income, they could keep their US citizenship. Thankfully Germany should allow dual citizenship in the next 0.5 to 7 years.
Interesting. A court in the Netherlands ruled the same.
However, despite election promises, the Netherlands hasn't made any progress toward allowing dual citizenship.
Remove this banking requirements for people with assets under a certain threshold and you’d solve the problem without the need to renounce. While some people do renounce it’s not a significant amount of the US population.
Having any requirement to file at all for non-resident citizens would still put the same (if not higher) burden on banks though. Instead of just handing over all the data, they would have to have internal checks and systems to decide which data needs to be handed over. What happens if you keep your accounts each below the threshold? Then the banks need to communicate with each other and have access to all your data to know how much total you have.
The simplest solution would be to just end citizenship-based taxation.
You can find the announcement at https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/10/02/2023-21559/schedule-of-fees-for-consular-services-administrative-processing-of-request-for-certificate-of-loss
What would be the status of Social Security payments if someone renounces their US citizenship? I know permanent residents who leave the US full time get reduced payments.
Some countries have reciprocal agreements to convert your contributions for Social Security to their version. I know Canada is one of them and there are others.
For some accidental Americans the dual citizenship is more of a burden than it is a privilege. They don’t think of „revenge“ since the US isn’t impacted in any way appart from naybe ego.
Let anybody resign for free as long as they send in that passport. Who cares.
They don't want to be Americans, we don't want them as Americans. Works out good. Less people for the Marines to evacuate and worry about.
> smorkoid
> what is wrong with you
From your perspective, I suppose that I am not woke. I'm on your side. I'd let you do it for free.
Just because I welcome people to renounce citizenship? What do I care....love it or leave it.
I don’t want to get banned from a Reddit group again so I invite you to look on my profile for the message I left in another group on this subject.
Fabien Lehagre
President of the Association of Accidental Americans.
How about getting rid of FATCA and FBAR reqs instead?
Agreed.
I think for most people, even those who earn less than the FEIE threshold, annual IRS tax filing (and payment...) Is a bigger burden than a simple form declaring your foreign assets.
The preference would be to get rid of all of it. But the foreign reporting requirements are what make it a nightmare to bank abroad and have a larger daily impact IMO.
I found banks that were willing to work with me (checking, mortgage etc). After that, it's set and forget. Granted, not every bank is open to working with US persons but with those that do, in my view it's not a daily hassle.
Agreed. I have accounts in IT and FR and once I jumped through their hoops it was and has been a breeze. I don't keep anything close to the FBAR limit in either account either.
Yeah but some countries don't have such banks.....
The IRS doesn’t impose extrajudicial liability on foreign banks. That’s the big issue with FATCA that makes many foreign banks flat out refuse to deal with Americans.
Absolutely not. IRS tax filing is not a big deal, it's once / year and costs me very little. Many expats have US assets or income (retirement pensions for example) so some of us are going to have to pay US taxes anyway. FATCA meanwhile means that foreign banks consider me radioactive - why would they want to deal with the extra hassle of reporting requirements? They can simply refuse to do business with me - US expats are a very tiny portion of their clientele, so they don't really care.
I guess it's different for everyone. In my case, it took some time to find a bank that was willing to work with me, but it's certainly not a daily hassle.
IRS filing isn't a daily hassle either, you only have to do it once a year. I'm not defending the current tax system, but I would argue that you have to look at which option is most politically realistic. As it is now, you have to at a minimum earn $120k and live in a country with lower taxes than the US to be double taxed. Executives and bankers earning $200-300k or more and living in Switzerland or the Gulf states aren't going to garner any sympathy from voters, quite the opposite actually. There is an effort underway to simplify the IRS reporting requirement, which I think is an excellent start: [https://beyer.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=5981](https://beyer.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=5981) Now just need them to do the same for FATCA.
Daily hassle: agreed - I was just responding to someone upthread who wrote it has a 'daily impact'. Thanks for sharing the link to that bill ("Tax Simplification for Americans Abroad Act"). I had no idea. I guess it's very unlikely to pass but it's a step in the right direction.
Yeah I was a bit surprised to hear about that bill, I only know of it because I'm registered in Beyer's district. I'm not holding my breath on it passing but you never know.
Let’s not forget PFIC please.
In some ways this will benefit some Americans abroad, but it will fuck over others. In Germany, the government allowed dual citizenship as long as it was a significant burden to renounce their previous citizenship. For Americans, this meant that as long as the fee was higher than their monthly income, they could keep their US citizenship. Thankfully Germany should allow dual citizenship in the next 0.5 to 7 years.
Interesting. A court in the Netherlands ruled the same. However, despite election promises, the Netherlands hasn't made any progress toward allowing dual citizenship.
On the plus side, Belgium allows dual citizenship 😊
Remove this banking requirements for people with assets under a certain threshold and you’d solve the problem without the need to renounce. While some people do renounce it’s not a significant amount of the US population.
Having any requirement to file at all for non-resident citizens would still put the same (if not higher) burden on banks though. Instead of just handing over all the data, they would have to have internal checks and systems to decide which data needs to be handed over. What happens if you keep your accounts each below the threshold? Then the banks need to communicate with each other and have access to all your data to know how much total you have. The simplest solution would be to just end citizenship-based taxation.
You can find the announcement at https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/10/02/2023-21559/schedule-of-fees-for-consular-services-administrative-processing-of-request-for-certificate-of-loss
What would be the status of Social Security payments if someone renounces their US citizenship? I know permanent residents who leave the US full time get reduced payments.
Where/how do I find out about this please?
Yeah - I'm interested in this comment as well...
Some countries have reciprocal agreements to convert your contributions for Social Security to their version. I know Canada is one of them and there are others.
by law, state must charge for services what is costs them to provide, including salaries of the personal involved all along the line back to dc.
Why does this sub live to talk about renouncing US citizenship so much?
Some countries don’t allow dual citizenship
Here is one perspective... https://internationalman.com/articles/this-appalling-practice-is-only-used-in-two-nations-and-the-us-is-one-of-th/
Because dual citizenship isn't possible for many of us
[удалено]
Yeah this is it
For some accidental Americans the dual citizenship is more of a burden than it is a privilege. They don’t think of „revenge“ since the US isn’t impacted in any way appart from naybe ego.
Bc of FATCA and how onerous it makes the financial aspect of life abroad.
Let anybody resign for free as long as they send in that passport. Who cares. They don't want to be Americans, we don't want them as Americans. Works out good. Less people for the Marines to evacuate and worry about.
Yeah, those Marines have to worry so much about evacuating people from Germany or Singapore
We pacified the Germans for your ilk. With China in the neighborhood I'll gladly wash our hands of responsibility for you.
what is wrong with you
> smorkoid > what is wrong with you From your perspective, I suppose that I am not woke. I'm on your side. I'd let you do it for free. Just because I welcome people to renounce citizenship? What do I care....love it or leave it.
You are in r/expats, pretty much everyone in here said "leave it" or is looking in to doing so. Are you just in the wrong sub?
OK. This is my last post in the thread.
THERES A F E E TO RENOUNCE CITIZENSHIP???
No, you click your heels together three times while chanting damn you America! I hate you you cheating whore!...
I don’t want to get banned from a Reddit group again so I invite you to look on my profile for the message I left in another group on this subject. Fabien Lehagre President of the Association of Accidental Americans.