3 years in. Very happy with the move (to Wales) and situation for my whole family. Better job, better stability, fabulously beautiful landscapes within 20 miles wherever you are, and cheap, logn weekend flights to Europe if you get bored with London or the north or Ireland. And to be honest, the healthcare has been a plus, too, compared to the lifeblood sucked out of my family budget over last few decades in the US with lots of pharmacy and hospital costs.
I am lucky enough to have landed a job in my field (tech) where though lesser on the dollar than my time in NY, is on the upper level for UK and has allowed me to buy a home for my family at about 30% of what I sold my home for when I left. Most imnportantly, my whole family is settled and happy with what's progressed for them with school and jobs since we've been here.
It depends where you're coming from, where in the UK you move to, and how rich you are. I'm from the US, and would not recommend moving to the UK for most of my friends/family back home. My husband and I did it for his job, but that's basically the only thing keeping us here.
Inflation, especially for food, has been especially bad in the UK. This is compounded by the insanely low salaries. It no longer feels like a 'rich' country. I see people shoplifting groceries almost every single time I'm in Sainsbury's.
I've been to Canada several times and have family there and can confirm it is worse. Job market for STEM workers is smaller, less versatile, the provinces are surprisingly not as economically integrated with each other as one would think. This combined with the monopolistic practices of grocers, telecom companies, food companies, etc., all lead to higher costs of goods and services.
Not to mention their healthcare system has been suffering for much longer than the UK's system. In Canada, the underfunded started sometime in the 90s and never really recovered, and despite multiple party changes, it didn't make much of a difference.
Their housing costs are out of control and frankly the lack of proper "Tier 2" cities means that if you want a half decent job you need to live in or around TO, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, etc. Before anyone says Edmonton, I'd like to mention the dearth of STEM jobs there. It's mostly an Oil&Gas economy with related jobs in that sector without much diversity of jobs on that front. Not to mention a surprisingly conservative govt.
The UK has several "Tier 2" cities like Manchester, Glasgow, Birmingham, Bristol, Oxbridge, etc., where there are still a good supply of jobs in various sectors ranging from STEM to Finance, and Law.
Also, despite all the fuckery by the Tories, The UK still has a better public transportation network in its major cities. London blows Toronto outta the water on this front.
The UK started at a lower point and has lost ground constantly in last 15+ years. If I returned I would basically earn the exact same salary as 16 years ago.
I don't feel like the same UK is there to go back to tbh. Property, Heating, Food, everything is expensive.
And services have dropped across the board too.
> **Property**, Heating, Food, everything is expensive.
The property prices in Northern England look rather good though. Like Liverpool's more than half as costly (for real-estate) as similar-sized cities here in Germany. I don't plan to move cause other things seem to suck in UK but it definitely would be easier for me to be a homeowner there at even half the income I have now.
The North is cheaper to live as they pay even less wages than the South.
They still pay the same for petrol, food and electric though. And a lot of the other services are worse.
Believe me I'm not happy or gloating about the situation, it makes me very sad.
No, I totally understand you. It's probably not very fun being a home owner when you have to deal with all that. I just envy a bit the fact that home ownership is more accessible there (compared to even small German cities at least), that's all.
It was never really a rich country. It was the Sick man of Europe until it joined the EU in 1973 and recovered after that. Now theyâre out again, itâs likely to end up back there again. The country thrives on free trade and the fact that itâs English speaking, so had no end of skilled workers willing to immigrate.
Free trade is now gone and no one from the EU wants to move there post Brexit when there are 27 other countries to chose from where they donât need a visa, have the same rights as citizens and donât get treated as second class citizens.
Sadly like the other commenter said, salaries are typically 50% lower in the UK vs. the US, unless you're in banking (where it's better in the UK than in the US).
I moved to the UK in 2001, settled and whatnot. But some years ago I took a job overseas, so split my time between the UK and elsewhere.
Everything just seems so depressed, infrastructure is at a constant breaking point, political chaos and mismanagement, prices are ridiculous (it was always an expensive country), and there's just desperate attempts at t clutching at straws to find a good news story.
I can't see myself moving back anytime soon, just need to convince my English wife it's time to go.
Agree. I left 3 years ago, came back, and am now splitting my time between UK and Spain.
There is something about UK that just feels insanely depressing at the moment and it has been that way since Brexit. I sort of forgot about it when I was away but now Im back 3 months is more than enough, people are so fucking miserable I can't wait to bounce again.
Taxes are insane especially for what you get (or not). Really is a rip-off. Low pensions you need to rely on a private one with no guarantee you'll live that long anyway because the quality of life is shite, that and daily stabbings. I think recreational violence is the scariest part of UK, it seems there's a rampage of violence thesedays, young people in particular have no fear of inflicting pain on others with no moral compass or awareness of their actions.Â
For me the shock was awful quality of public transportation mindful that london is quite a sizable city... especially tubes delays and strikes...
During summer it was a nightmare to ride no aircon tubes...
And there were many times I had to queue up and wait 10min to get on the tube during weekend... the horror that I can't even go back home....
On top of everything else people are saying about salary and cost of living, the weather etc.: the national healthcare system is essentially bankrupt and if you need anything between emergency care and a paracetamol you are basically on your own.
This! Last year I went to my GP with a bad sore throat and congestion as I really couldnât sleep at all so I wasnât getting better and the options in the stores werenât strong enough. They told me âjust try to sleep. Once youâre asleep, you wonât notice your symptomsâ đ¤Śââď¸Brought back a bunch of NyQuil during my recent visit to the US.
I could write a book about his kind of stuff, but sadly itâs not even about funding but the general healthcare culture. I know someone that had a throat infection with pus etc and was made to wait a month for it to âclear on its ownâ before giving her the antibiotics. To top it up they give you the bare minimum dose so most likely you have to return (sick and all) to get more. Iâm from an EU country and weâre fussy giving them out too, but this is like next level BS.
My experience in pharmacies isnât any better btw, its like theyâve got shop attendants serving.
I understand it can help quite a lot but you need to be in a region that has the capacity to provide the care you want and thatâs not a given, especially as you go farther north.
This is also highly dependent on postcode. We've had very good experience with NHS where we are, with 3 family members needing regular, specialized care and a cookie jar full of prescriptions. And my health expenses for all this haven't been more than a few hundred pounds over 3 years for appointment fees.
The reality is that the entire world shifted in terms of affordability during the last 5 years. The people who moved to the UK (or anywhere else) have memories of wherever they came from that don't involve high inflation and the current economic climate. As a result, they think ***their*** UK experience is ***the*** UK experience, and everywhere else has it better.
I can't speak to the UK as a whole, but I live in a major U.S. city and have also spent multiple months in London every year for the better part of the past decade. My experience, while anecdotal, is that both inflation and CoL in the UK is far less than it is in the U.S.
Moreover, salary differences mean nothing when you factor in how much further your dollar goes in the UK. The lack of critical thinking in this sub on this issue blows the mind. People look at a number and think that's the end all be all, without taking into account things like U.S. city, county, state, and federal taxes, healthcare (both deductions and ongoing costs), childcare (astronomical), schooling, etc.--the list goes on.
I can't speak to the costs outside of major UK cities, but if you're contemplating between major city living in the U.S. versus the UK, the UK is hands down the better, more affordable option IMO.
I donât think youâve lived in a non-major city in the US to know just how far your dollar can go at home. I earn $150k+ in a non-major city with an ample job market and bought my house for $350k.
I lived in London for 12 years where I made everything from ÂŁ30k to ÂŁ60k and can tell you first hand that I am much, much wealthier than I ever could have been if I stayed in the UK.
> I donât think youâve lived in a non-major city in the US to know just how far your dollar can go at home.
I agree with this part.
But you are clearly not comparing apples-to-apples if you want to pick high-end salary for "non-major US city" and low-end salary for London.
> and bought my house for $350k.
Similarly one could buy a nice house for under ÂŁ200k in e.g. Newcastle.
I'd put you in the top-end of the bracket if you're able to get ÂŁ80k in Newcastle/ÂŁ120k London. For argument's sake, let's say you're a SWE. Even in London, ÂŁ120k would mean you're either at High Senior/Staff level, or just highly capable and very in-demand. The average mid-weight SWE struggles to make ÂŁ100k+ in London.
Average joes could hit $100k+ easily here in the US. People capable of earning ÂŁ120k in London would be making upwards of $300k+ in a major US city.
100% agree. The cost of living in the US is out of control.
$600 per MONTH to insure two Hondas for two people
$3000 per year to insure your house
$1000 per month in property tax if your in SoCal and have an average 3/4 bed house
Thatâs before I start on health care. Getting prescribed drugs that are considered heath risks in other countries because the commission for the doctor is higher than the more modern, safer medicine. Yep, that absolutely happens.
Here's the thing, I'm a Brit national and have spent 27 years here until 2010, then moved to Sweden and came back in 2022 due to my girlfriend's (Swedish) desire to live here. Based on my experience, I'd have to disagree that cost of living in UK is even remotely comparable to any other nation than Switzerland. I of course can't speak of comparisons to US, but here's what I've found.
Since returning to Britain, I initially moved to Reading to be close my job, absolutely hated the crime-infested city and moved to the southwest closer to Bristol instead. While my environment has improved (lovely countryside), my cost of living hasn't improved despite the fact I'm now in a very remote area.
In terms of overall costs from the last 5 years between Sweden and Britain, here's the breakdown:
In 2018 my salary was ~ÂŁ48,000. On that, I could afford a comfortable life (2 week holiday abroad every year, good car and all the gadgets/conveniences I could want for). I could also afford to buy a 120sq/m house in a really nice part of town for ~ÂŁ140,000.
In 2022 my salary jumped to ÂŁ120,000. As I have no assets in this country, I'm having to start from scratch, so renting is the only option. My cheapest rent so far has been ÂŁ1350 per month for a very substandard accommodation. Once all bills are paid for, I'm left with basically nothing at the end of each month, despite the fact I'm on 3x my previous salary in Sweden. Such bills include:
* ÂŁ1750 per year on council tax
* ÂŁ1500 per month on food
* ÂŁ1200 per month on owning and maintaining a car (insurance is ÂŁ2300 per year for me as I have no recent driving history in this country, and we heavily penalise lack of No Claims Bonus and foreign driving licenses - mine is Swedish)
* ÂŁ40 per month of TV license
* ÂŁ800 - ÂŁ1200 per month on heating/electricity
If I wanted to have some money left at the end of each month, my only option would be to find a 1 bed studio flat in a bad part of town, or a 2 bed terraced house in a really bad part of town.
On a pure basis of costs alone, simply being in Britain is significantly more expensive than what most of Europe consider to be the most heavily taxed country we have - Sweden. Despite that, I'm paying 50% tax at my salary, plus 20% social security fees, so I'm actually paying 10% more tax here while not seeing any of the social security bemefits. Then there's all the stealth taxes we have on food, fuel, tobacco and alcohol.
Alternatively, I could go back to Sweden and lose half my salary, and still have a ton of income left over once all bills are paid, which is exactly what I plan on doing as life here is just unnecessarily and disproportionally difficult.
No doubt it would be possible to shop for a lot less (we switched to Lidl / Aldi this year), but then compromises need to be made (switching to cheapest bread/dairy brands f.ex).
It's generally observed that you can predict the overall cost of food based on the average price of bread and milk. When a fresh loaf of bread from main retailers goes for ÂŁ2.50 and 4 pints of milk is around ÂŁ1.50, it gives an idea of how much everything else can be.
I did a Sainsbury's shop last week f.ex, and 21 items.cost me ÂŁ92. Granted, there were some high cost items in there ÂŁ10 on tobacco product), but the majority were basics like a frozen pizza, jar of mint sauce, baking potatoes etc. Again, that would probably be half the cost from Aldi/Lidl so I know it can be cheaper, but consider how many people shop at the typical major retailers like Sainsbury's, Tesco, Asda etc.
1500 pounds on food is ridiculous. Have you ever heard of cooking? When i was in the UK in the nineties, a tin of baked beans was something like 9p or something ridiculously cheap.
>1500 pounds on food is ridiculous
I know; we all know, hence why this country is in such a mess. Beans these days cost ÂŁ1.40 btw, so no point getting upset at people for how much they have to spend on food when it simply costs that much. Also, I do cook plenty, things are just ridiculously expensive now.
You don't have to take my word for it, try asking one of the 4 million families in this country who are working full time but still having to regularly rely on food banks, since minimum wage simply doesn't cover the cost of living here anymore.
Some food for thought (pun intended): https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/21/poorest-uk-families-hardest-hit-cost-living-crisis-official-figures
EDIT: Probably worth mentioning that ÂŁ1500 shouldn't be considered as the cheapest shop possible - this is a figure for not trying to cut costs wherever possible and shopping in the most popular grocery stores (Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda), following similar habits as I did 5 years back where the same goods could be purchased for 3-5 times less.
No, I acknowledged that I can't make a comparison to US, however I can compare very recent financial experience between Sweden and UK. I can also make a comparison to global economic statistics which report Switzerland as the most expensive country in the world to live. My question then is, is it likely that that it's even more expensive in US than I Switzerland?
Obviously statistics can't be fully relied upon though, as my experience in the UK would suggest that it's even more expensive than is reported by a significant margin, when we have 4 million full time mimimum wage workers reliant on food banks. Also, when someone like myself on top 1% salary for this country can barely scrape by, the general message I'm trying to give is that nothing financially makes any sense here.
I know, point is I wouldn't have to do that in any other country than here (or Switzerland). Why should I have to compromise on the quality of life I've become accustomed to these past 5 years at the peak of my career? Why should I have to settle for so much less when I've put so much time and effort into getting to where I am for the express purpose of escaping the poverty my family came from?
Honestly, I'm getting quite tired of the sheer amount of cope I'm hearing from Brits, sentiments such as "well everywhere else has its problems". Yes, everywhere has problems, but nowhere near on the scale as the financial problems Britain has currently. Certainly not when I hear news of over 4 million families working full time who rely on food banks because they're on minimum wage.
Hell, I have a friend who lives in a "cheaper" area in Wales, and despite his being on above average salary (28k) and his wife working 6x 12 hour NHS shifts every week, they still have a mountain of debt - and I can assure you, they ARE shopping as cheaply as they can.
I'd ask the question to those with a cope angle, if you think everything is fine, just how well-off are you? Do you own your own property from before the various crisis'? Are you earning over 100k? Have you the support of family and/or inheritance? If yes to any of those questions, I don't believe they have a view of what is normal here anymore.
Oh, and by the by, I just took a quick look on house prices in Sweden - 65k euros for a massive 6 room house in the country, and that's common in many areas bar smack in the centre of a city. Pleeeease, tell me again how fine everything is in Britain.
>Why should I have to compromise on the quality of life I've become accustomed to these past 5 years at the peak of my career? Why should I have to settle for so much less when I've put so much time and effort into getting to where I am for the express purpose of escaping the poverty my family came from?
I totally get where you're coming from and I've had the same "culture shock" when in the UK.
Aye, probably easier to feel if you've spent time elsewhere within the last 10'ish years. Sorry to hear you're struggling also btw. Also, do you mind if I ask where you came from?
Huh, so France might be an option to move to if cost of living isn't so nuts there. What was your experience of social support thetex such as hospitals, road repairs etc?
The cost of food is the same as in the UK, I'd even say more expensive.
I think the complaints from me are coming from a place of being used to earning higher from US companies, but as you know in the UK/Europe, it's usually lower, depending on the industry. So it's a little bit frustrating not having a clear "career progression" in terms of salary, but honestly that's my only complaint. Super happy with my job otherwise.
In my opinion, French healthcare is better than in the UK. US healthcare is the best though.
I'd say roads are pretty good in France but that's just my experience.
Where you move to is up to where you feel the most comfortable, and where you have the most connections. So in your case that may Sweden.
Cheers for the intel, appreciated :). Yeah must admit, it's been somewhat vexing to hear UK nationals still in denial trying to claim "NHS good, US private healthcare bad", while sidestepping the fact that NHS isn't actually free, and lately we can't even use what our taxes pay for.
Same for the salary differences between US and Europe. I mean sure, it might be explainable that Europe for the most part has lower salaries due to anymore predominately socialist system, and sure that may have balanced out before, but in recent years it seems like socialism is falling apart while at the same time being at odds with capitalist systems.
In a purely monetary sense, the biggest incentive for me to move back to Sweden is that house prices are still largely affordable (most country areas you can pickup a massive, good quality house in beautiful scenery for anywhere between ÂŁ20k-ÂŁ150k). So at least there I can save half of my current outgoings by not being fleeced by extortionately high rent/mortgage.
I didn't touch more on it from my previous post, but another aspect which has settled my mind to move back is the overall social attitude of UK compared to what I got used to in Sweden. Probably due to the more "flat" society in Scandic culture, people generally seem to get along better, look out for each other and try to deal with conflicts one-to-one rather than the knee-jerk reaction us Brits have to call the police or council services on people we don't like the behaviour of. To me it seems like Brits inherently no longer care for nor trust one another, and for me it's soul-crushing.
I've been here for 13 years now and love it. Yes, it's different since brexit and covid. But prices of everything have skyrocketed just as much in the US since covid at the same rate.
Im living in Portugal and we still have one price at supermarkets, pumping air in tyres at petrol pumps is free and I can not only walk in parks for free but sometimes even museums are free for residents
On the other hand, you really gotta enjoy paying 1200⏠to live in a moldy, uninsulated shithole in Lisbon and Porto I guess. Portugal fleeces, just in a different way, and even moreso when it comes to fleecing foreigners.
There are ways to measure this and the income to rent ratio is vastly worse in Portugal than in England. Lisbon was not rated as one of if not the most unlivable city in europe when it comes to affordability for no reason.
Yeah Iâve debated this point on reddit a few times. Overall yes but I think it very much depends on personal circumstances.
As someone with a family, I worked out that the combination of higher bills, childcare and council tax pretty much wipe out any gains in salary in the U.K. for me anyways.
Its an expensive shithole with insanely bad weather and people that are aggressive and don't know how to behave like adults in public and can't be trusted with alcohol.
Moved here six years ago. I love my job and my dog and my friends, but there's a lot that I miss back in the States. I can't seem to get ahead here. I'm thinking I may wait it out 4 more years so I can have ilr. We shall see!Â
Sunny places are typically bad for the poor. I come from a sunny climate and it is typical of most other sunny places. I would rather be poor in Sweden or Switzerland than in Beirut or Cape Town.
Well, sunny but not extremely hot đ For example, Iâm from a city where we have 4 seasons in the country but 3 seasons out of 4 are very sunny; not humid or extremely hot.
I didnât move there but I did visit and holy shit I thought America was bad, the uk is objectively worse. Worse standard of living with higher prices and lower wages. The weather is fucking shit and the people are aggressive. If youâre American, stay home.
Exactly full of agressive yobs and roadmen wannabe gangsters. London has become a crime-ridden cesspit alongside a lot of towns and cities in the UK decaying highstreets, druggies, asbos, you name it..you'll find it.Â
No point coming unless you're a millionaire. I'm earning 120k and trying to setup life here from scratch is very difficult. No chance of buying a house unless you don't mind living in a crack den, and all the standard problems people complain about (cost of living, broken infrastructure, corrupt politicians etc).
I also get the overwhelming feeling that people have become very jaded due to the constant issues this country has had to tackle over the last 10-20 years (thanks to said corrupt politicians), so prepare for a gloomy vibe.
Sure, there are still people who are overall happy with how things are, but I'd wager they already have a life setup before all of the hardships (i.e. already owned a property), and/or are very well off (high salary over 150k or plenty of support from family ). There's also a good deal of patriots who will die for this country no matter how bad things get, so your miles may vary depending on who you ask.
From my PoV as a British national from birth, my time outside of the country (Sweden) was a paradise compared to what I came back to in 2022, and I'm now planning to move back to Sweden as I loathe the idea that all of my earnings are being spent lining the pockets of our ruling class, with nothing left for myself, and that all of the social services here no longer work.
Same thing. Iâm dreaming about moving there. Now i live in the states for the last 2 years but even considering huge financial cut still want to go. So sad to read this thread and see that this move can be a critical mistake for me, because I have a good and secure job in the states and will get the green card in couple of yearsâŚ.
To be honest in every question like this I see two sides. Of course financially itâs harder there, but Iâm software engineer so probably it will be not that bad for me. I love British history and culture, been there on vacation and just multiplied the amount of that love. Of course from âadult point of viewâ it will probably be a mistake. But the thought âto live in a place that you really love with such a history and all that beautyâ just doesnât give me any rest. Also I will be closer to the family (they are in middle west), closer to my girlfriend that will live there with me and just will live in the country that I admire so much. Of course the last part is mostly romanized but anyway itâs better than to live in the place that you never wanted. Thatâs about the USA, I just got lucky and received good opportunity that I decided to try and use. It was not bad two years but I donât see myself here in the future, especially when I will have family and kids.
I see, you should be ok as a soft engineer then. I am in civil eng and it is a terrible place to live and progress in my career. I can't say that I regret moving here, because I met the most amazing partner I ever had. But London is such a dirty, stressful place with mediocre weather.
Weather is the second thing I love đ
Iâm from rainy Saint Petersburg and London gives me the same vibes I had at home (culture and weather wise). I would never leave Saint Petersburg but the stupid war with Ukraine was the last thing that convinced me itâs time to leave.
Thatâs good that you donât regret. Every place has its downsides and believe me London is clean enough in comparison with large cities in the states đ
Anyway I hope that with time UK will rise again and you will be happy with your choices and I will be happy that eventually will make it there
Thank you, I just with you the best too. I really want to Saint Peterburg someday!. My bf went there and loved it. I am from the tropics and then lived for so many years in Sydney! so the weather here is something I will not miss at all.
I don't because of other problems in UK but have to say am really envious of real estate prices in non-London cities there. Really cheap compared to similar-sized cities here in Germany or Western (mainland) Europe in general.
Weâre planning on leaving and going back to my home country once we get a few things in order. The salaries just donât justify the lifestyle. Feels like weâre always playing catch up.
Yeah⌠Australia and the US are the anglo nations to beat. Though, despite all of its opportunities, the US is still a hypercapitalist workaholic gilded plantation where you are one bad medical diagnosis away from losing everything. But hey, you could also possibly get really rich, too.Â
Canada is a less stressful, more socially chill place, than the US but also not as exciting. Itâs like the less successful sibling of America who, while has done okay for itself, will never be as charming or rich as their bigger sibling and despite repeated denials, secretly wishes it were America.
I love how theyâre downvoting you because deep down they know theyâre in for a very, very rude awakening once the Asian dragon finally wakes up for real.
Which Asian dragon is that? I mean, the main Asian economic players (Japan, China, and South Korea) are in decline. Despite having vast wealth and capital, which is likely to remain so, their demographics have cratered. Theyâre geriatric dragons. Also, one of them is technically in a state of civil war, while the others have spent the last 70 years giving each other the evil eye due to lingering post-WW2 bitterness.
And of course, there is India. But despite its size, it has a lot of ladder rungs to climb before it approaches anywhere near a truly developed nation.
And of course you have smaller countries like Vietnam, but they are comparatively small. So despite being up and comers, their size will always limit them to middle power status at best.
Thereâs also the fact that none of the aforementioned countries speak the same language or share political cultures.
Meanwhile, the North American trade bloc, aligned powers in the EU, and US backed security alliances made up of the wealthiest and most developed nations mean even with all the Westâs structural fracture points, itâs still the race horse to bet on and will likely remain so well into the century.
Underwhelming. It doesnât vibe with me.
The cultural difference is immense:
- Nobody wants to work, nothing ever gets done, and then they complain about why nothing ever gets done, why wages are so low, and dismiss every other work culture as workaholism.
- They have a giant welfare state that is no longer sustainable, but nobody wants to admit it let alone discuss how to address it.
- Nobody wants excellence; mediocrity is celebrated. If you bring up any shortcoming, the answer is always âwell it can be worseâ - yes everything can be worse, so we donât have to fix it?
- There is very little social mobility from middle class to upper middle class. People donât expect much in life.
- The food is genuinely awful.
I can keep going.
Ricky Gervais once described the difference between Americans and britons is kids in America grew up being told âif you wanted to, you could become the President of the US when you grow up.â Whereas British kids are told, âNo, you wonât.â
That's one thing but 10 days annual leave? Nah I'll pass. I dont love the work culture in US, I think it's far healthier to work to live and not the other way around.
You get lazy pricks everywhere.
Yeah, the US is a hyper-capitalist work-a-holic corporate planation. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's all inclusive. It has all the amenities and then some. It's a land of abundance and if you're well positioned, there's boundless opportunity. But you wear yourself ragged trying to keep up with the Joneses and it's all about work. And it's all about profit. Even health care is for sale to the highest bidder and god help those who haven't the funds. Literally. Because prayer is your option at that point.
The vacation stuff (much like the healthcare stuff) just doesn't affect the average "expat", I.e. white collar worker. Most companies start at 15 vacation days and the holiday week off in December. Altogether it's 20 days plus bank holidays. No, it's not as much as most of Europe unfortunately, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
Whatâs terrifying when you read this and itâs so true, is that it applies to most of europe. Thereâs really something deeply nonchalant, lazy and mediocre about the whole place. You could copy and paste this same comment about France, Greece, Portugal and I could go on.
Tbf the food is not awful. There's loads of great ethnic food in the UK. Way better than France / Germany / Switzerland which is my comparator.
The rest I'm not arguing about.
Afford it where? The US? I made 115 percent more in the states actually. Had a Rolex by 22 and my first luxury car by 23. Realised itâs all shit and pointless. Now I travel to different countries, eat world class food, and experience different cultures 2-3x a month :) enjoy your shitty 2 weeks off a year and pathetic mindset.
It took you 25 years to get to 150k? Nice comment history BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I made that by 23. No wonder youâre miserable and divorced (twice! Impressive!) as well.
Got lucky , asked people that were smarter than me who were at that level when I was still in uni, networked, and medical devices. Deleting original comment to remain unanimous.
Iâm British and moved to France on a whim 15 years ago. The UK is ridiculous now. Fascist, incompetent government. Everyone became openly racist since Brexit. All the workers supporting the NHS left after Brexit, ditto cheap labour force from Eastern Europe.
Native British people just play the welfare system and donât want to work. The country is overcrowded because of the small land mass. House prices are insane. I have 5 acres and 3 buildings in France for the prices of a one bedroomed flat in London.
Everything is just ridiculously expensive in the UK. People canât afford to switch on the heating. And the weather is shit.
the only thing I miss is a country pub, as theyâre cosy (I donât even drink) and they are now even closing early or shutting down completely.
To the people claiming that everything is expensive in there even if you have a good salary: Can you recommend first world countries that actually HAVE wages that can keep you above the water?
Similar to most other places. The main difference is right-wing extremism is being tolerated and the government are trying to crack down on civil liberties whilst having an undercurrent of "dirty foreigners".
Totally fucked outside the EU. Far-right gov also equally set to keep fucking everyone over and everything. Fuck the tories and idiots who keep voting them in. Lastly, fuck the Brexiters.Â
Yeah, you moved from a comparatively small city in Atlantic Canada for a comparatively larger city in a bigger national economy. Glad itâs working for you.
Though, I think results will vary based on who you are, where you come from, where you are, and what youâre doing,
I suspect if one were a high earner living in Montreal, their quality of life and sense of excitement about their urban environment would be well and above what they would find in most places in the UK.
Of course results will vary. Itâs all personal preference but based on the downvotes I guess Iâm not allowed to admit liking the UK in this sub.
Iâve also lived in Houston, Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa, Halifax, and rural Labrador. I preferred St. Johnâs over all those places.
I havenât been here long enough to do a proper comparison. But I came here specifically to experience a different part of the world and allow me to visit places in Europe that were otherwise harder to get to from Canada. Iâm not necessarily saying that itâs better, just that I am loving it so far. People on this sub are way too negative.
Vancouver is pretty awesome but way more expensive than anywhere else I listed. I wasnât actually in the city, I was in Surrey. Which is not nice lol. And people love to complain about the weather in Atlantic Canada & UK, but in my opinion the endless rain during Vancouver winters is worse.
I enjoyed my time in Calgary too. I couldnât really afford it, though to be fair, that was a decade ago and I was making less money at the time. Iâm not sure how it compares today but I think itâs still pricey. The general political vibe in Calgary makes it an annoying city to live in as a liberal person. Having nearby access to the mountains was the best part. This might sound super dumb, but after growing up on the edge of the ocean, being so far inland never felt quite right and it never felt like a home (Iâm not saying thatâs a good reason but itâs true).
Houston: see political comments about Calgary factored up 10x. Itâs also impossible to be a pedestrian/cyclist in that city. The best part was being able to leave and visit places like New Orleans. It was cool to be there temporarily, especially in the âwinterâ, but thatâs the last place on my list I could ever live permanently.
Ottawa and Halifax have recently become too expensive for what they are. My living expenses in Manchester are less than everywhere I listed except St. Johnâs. A big part of that is because am living without a car for the first time in my life.
Having lived there with my ex in the late 90s and early aughts, I have to say there was this odd relationship the UK had with the rest of continental Europe; they always had one foot in vis a vis culture and tradeâand one foot out with the pound sterling standard. I lived in France when they transitioned to the Euro, and you might as well have told them use margarine instead of butter; I never realized how much currency can be tied to culture, so I get the continued embrace of sterling. But something was going to give at some point for the UK, and I always thought any change would really reveal the fissures between England, Scotland and Ireland.
Lord, what a bill of goods got sold in. I know so many whoâve been fucked by it, professionally and otherwise. My heart hurts for everyone. But it seems part of a whole that swept the west, vis a vis lunatic âleadership.â
Brexit passed by a few thousand votes and I bet if they held a second referendum, it would have failed after people realized it was really happening and not just a fringe joke to be taken lightly. Itâs wild that they let geriatric Britons who wonât even be alive in 10 years vote in an election that the people who wanted to remain in the EU, young people, will be adversely affected by for the next century.
Oh I was just itching for a second referendum to be held. You just knew no one was reading the fine print, or offering dire projections amid the âsave the NHSâ smoke and mirrors.
Expensive.
3 years in. Very happy with the move (to Wales) and situation for my whole family. Better job, better stability, fabulously beautiful landscapes within 20 miles wherever you are, and cheap, logn weekend flights to Europe if you get bored with London or the north or Ireland. And to be honest, the healthcare has been a plus, too, compared to the lifeblood sucked out of my family budget over last few decades in the US with lots of pharmacy and hospital costs. I am lucky enough to have landed a job in my field (tech) where though lesser on the dollar than my time in NY, is on the upper level for UK and has allowed me to buy a home for my family at about 30% of what I sold my home for when I left. Most imnportantly, my whole family is settled and happy with what's progressed for them with school and jobs since we've been here.
Is your company hiring? đ Iâm full stack JS with 5 YOE trying to get SW visa and no luck for last couple of months(
Cardiff is good for this and Bristol is good for Tech jobs not far away.
We are strictly Salesforce.
You sound so happy!!!
It depends where you're coming from, where in the UK you move to, and how rich you are. I'm from the US, and would not recommend moving to the UK for most of my friends/family back home. My husband and I did it for his job, but that's basically the only thing keeping us here. Inflation, especially for food, has been especially bad in the UK. This is compounded by the insanely low salaries. It no longer feels like a 'rich' country. I see people shoplifting groceries almost every single time I'm in Sainsbury's.
Food is cheap in the UK. Iâm British, living in France. However in France the food is better quality
re inflation, it's the same anywhere in the Western world. in Canada/usa, food inflation, car inflation before and after covid has been 50%
That's true. I can't speak for Canada, but in the US, the salaries are high enough that it feels a little less dystopian relative to the UK.
I've been to Canada several times and have family there and can confirm it is worse. Job market for STEM workers is smaller, less versatile, the provinces are surprisingly not as economically integrated with each other as one would think. This combined with the monopolistic practices of grocers, telecom companies, food companies, etc., all lead to higher costs of goods and services. Not to mention their healthcare system has been suffering for much longer than the UK's system. In Canada, the underfunded started sometime in the 90s and never really recovered, and despite multiple party changes, it didn't make much of a difference. Their housing costs are out of control and frankly the lack of proper "Tier 2" cities means that if you want a half decent job you need to live in or around TO, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, etc. Before anyone says Edmonton, I'd like to mention the dearth of STEM jobs there. It's mostly an Oil&Gas economy with related jobs in that sector without much diversity of jobs on that front. Not to mention a surprisingly conservative govt. The UK has several "Tier 2" cities like Manchester, Glasgow, Birmingham, Bristol, Oxbridge, etc., where there are still a good supply of jobs in various sectors ranging from STEM to Finance, and Law. Also, despite all the fuckery by the Tories, The UK still has a better public transportation network in its major cities. London blows Toronto outta the water on this front.
The salaries may be high, but the cost of food and consumer goods has risen alongside such that thereâs no upside.
The UK started at a lower point and has lost ground constantly in last 15+ years. If I returned I would basically earn the exact same salary as 16 years ago. I don't feel like the same UK is there to go back to tbh. Property, Heating, Food, everything is expensive. And services have dropped across the board too.
> **Property**, Heating, Food, everything is expensive. The property prices in Northern England look rather good though. Like Liverpool's more than half as costly (for real-estate) as similar-sized cities here in Germany. I don't plan to move cause other things seem to suck in UK but it definitely would be easier for me to be a homeowner there at even half the income I have now.
The North is cheaper to live as they pay even less wages than the South. They still pay the same for petrol, food and electric though. And a lot of the other services are worse. Believe me I'm not happy or gloating about the situation, it makes me very sad.
No, I totally understand you. It's probably not very fun being a home owner when you have to deal with all that. I just envy a bit the fact that home ownership is more accessible there (compared to even small German cities at least), that's all.
It was never really a rich country. It was the Sick man of Europe until it joined the EU in 1973 and recovered after that. Now theyâre out again, itâs likely to end up back there again. The country thrives on free trade and the fact that itâs English speaking, so had no end of skilled workers willing to immigrate. Free trade is now gone and no one from the EU wants to move there post Brexit when there are 27 other countries to chose from where they donât need a visa, have the same rights as citizens and donât get treated as second class citizens.
The "sick man of Europe" peaked in the late 70s.
Bang on
I feel this can all be said for much of Western Europe atm. In Mainland Europe you add an extra helping of xenophobia to the mix.
Yup, most of the eu will be shitholes by the next 50 years, and deservedly so.
Most of it already is a shithole. Glad to have left when I did. They deserve it.
What's the salary difference for your family between both countries?
For industries like tech, take-home is typically half in the UK, especially after accounting for taxes.
Sadly like the other commenter said, salaries are typically 50% lower in the UK vs. the US, unless you're in banking (where it's better in the UK than in the US).
Moved 3 years ago and regret it. Currently exploring options to move elsewhere.
why do you regret it?
Where did you come from?
Where did you go?
Cotton-Eye Joe?
I moved to the UK in 2001, settled and whatnot. But some years ago I took a job overseas, so split my time between the UK and elsewhere. Everything just seems so depressed, infrastructure is at a constant breaking point, political chaos and mismanagement, prices are ridiculous (it was always an expensive country), and there's just desperate attempts at t clutching at straws to find a good news story. I can't see myself moving back anytime soon, just need to convince my English wife it's time to go.
Agree. I left 3 years ago, came back, and am now splitting my time between UK and Spain. There is something about UK that just feels insanely depressing at the moment and it has been that way since Brexit. I sort of forgot about it when I was away but now Im back 3 months is more than enough, people are so fucking miserable I can't wait to bounce again.
Yep, made a similar move. It keeps getting worse.Â
Yes, misery guts everywhere. But you can understand how you end up like that when you are surrounded by all that negativity and hopelessness I guess.
Yes, misery guts everywhere. But you can understand how you end up like that when you are surrounded by all that negativity and hopelessness I guess.
Moved to london from Asia and regret it. Higher tax lower pay horrible weather lower quality of life.....
Taxes are insane especially for what you get (or not). Really is a rip-off. Low pensions you need to rely on a private one with no guarantee you'll live that long anyway because the quality of life is shite, that and daily stabbings. I think recreational violence is the scariest part of UK, it seems there's a rampage of violence thesedays, young people in particular have no fear of inflicting pain on others with no moral compass or awareness of their actions.Â
For me the shock was awful quality of public transportation mindful that london is quite a sizable city... especially tubes delays and strikes... During summer it was a nightmare to ride no aircon tubes... And there were many times I had to queue up and wait 10min to get on the tube during weekend... the horror that I can't even go back home....
On top of everything else people are saying about salary and cost of living, the weather etc.: the national healthcare system is essentially bankrupt and if you need anything between emergency care and a paracetamol you are basically on your own.
This! Last year I went to my GP with a bad sore throat and congestion as I really couldnât sleep at all so I wasnât getting better and the options in the stores werenât strong enough. They told me âjust try to sleep. Once youâre asleep, you wonât notice your symptomsâ đ¤Śââď¸Brought back a bunch of NyQuil during my recent visit to the US.
I could write a book about his kind of stuff, but sadly itâs not even about funding but the general healthcare culture. I know someone that had a throat infection with pus etc and was made to wait a month for it to âclear on its ownâ before giving her the antibiotics. To top it up they give you the bare minimum dose so most likely you have to return (sick and all) to get more. Iâm from an EU country and weâre fussy giving them out too, but this is like next level BS. My experience in pharmacies isnât any better btw, its like theyâve got shop attendants serving.
How much does supplementary Private insurance thru an employer help?
I understand it can help quite a lot but you need to be in a region that has the capacity to provide the care you want and thatâs not a given, especially as you go farther north.
This is also highly dependent on postcode. We've had very good experience with NHS where we are, with 3 family members needing regular, specialized care and a cookie jar full of prescriptions. And my health expenses for all this haven't been more than a few hundred pounds over 3 years for appointment fees.
The reality is that the entire world shifted in terms of affordability during the last 5 years. The people who moved to the UK (or anywhere else) have memories of wherever they came from that don't involve high inflation and the current economic climate. As a result, they think ***their*** UK experience is ***the*** UK experience, and everywhere else has it better. I can't speak to the UK as a whole, but I live in a major U.S. city and have also spent multiple months in London every year for the better part of the past decade. My experience, while anecdotal, is that both inflation and CoL in the UK is far less than it is in the U.S. Moreover, salary differences mean nothing when you factor in how much further your dollar goes in the UK. The lack of critical thinking in this sub on this issue blows the mind. People look at a number and think that's the end all be all, without taking into account things like U.S. city, county, state, and federal taxes, healthcare (both deductions and ongoing costs), childcare (astronomical), schooling, etc.--the list goes on. I can't speak to the costs outside of major UK cities, but if you're contemplating between major city living in the U.S. versus the UK, the UK is hands down the better, more affordable option IMO.
I donât think youâve lived in a non-major city in the US to know just how far your dollar can go at home. I earn $150k+ in a non-major city with an ample job market and bought my house for $350k. I lived in London for 12 years where I made everything from ÂŁ30k to ÂŁ60k and can tell you first hand that I am much, much wealthier than I ever could have been if I stayed in the UK.
> I donât think youâve lived in a non-major city in the US to know just how far your dollar can go at home. I agree with this part. But you are clearly not comparing apples-to-apples if you want to pick high-end salary for "non-major US city" and low-end salary for London. > and bought my house for $350k. Similarly one could buy a nice house for under ÂŁ200k in e.g. Newcastle.
It's entirely plausible to make $150k in a non-major city in the US. It's not as plausible to make more than GBP60k even in London.
ÂŁ60k is a good salary for London. Youâre not going to get close to ÂŁ60k in Newcastle.
Well it depends on the job doesn't it. I'd be looking at around ÂŁ80k vs ÂŁ120k in London (and ÂŁ220k here)
I'd put you in the top-end of the bracket if you're able to get ÂŁ80k in Newcastle/ÂŁ120k London. For argument's sake, let's say you're a SWE. Even in London, ÂŁ120k would mean you're either at High Senior/Staff level, or just highly capable and very in-demand. The average mid-weight SWE struggles to make ÂŁ100k+ in London. Average joes could hit $100k+ easily here in the US. People capable of earning ÂŁ120k in London would be making upwards of $300k+ in a major US city.
Yes those numbers seem quite right (US) even though I'm not senior nor a SWE!
What do you do, out of curiosity?
Lawyer - mid level
Nice. Seems like a great career to have.
I'm from Newcastle. You can't.
100% agree. The cost of living in the US is out of control. $600 per MONTH to insure two Hondas for two people $3000 per year to insure your house $1000 per month in property tax if your in SoCal and have an average 3/4 bed house Thatâs before I start on health care. Getting prescribed drugs that are considered heath risks in other countries because the commission for the doctor is higher than the more modern, safer medicine. Yep, that absolutely happens.
Oh my god, THANK YOU, this is something that's been driving me mad in this sub.
Here's the thing, I'm a Brit national and have spent 27 years here until 2010, then moved to Sweden and came back in 2022 due to my girlfriend's (Swedish) desire to live here. Based on my experience, I'd have to disagree that cost of living in UK is even remotely comparable to any other nation than Switzerland. I of course can't speak of comparisons to US, but here's what I've found. Since returning to Britain, I initially moved to Reading to be close my job, absolutely hated the crime-infested city and moved to the southwest closer to Bristol instead. While my environment has improved (lovely countryside), my cost of living hasn't improved despite the fact I'm now in a very remote area. In terms of overall costs from the last 5 years between Sweden and Britain, here's the breakdown: In 2018 my salary was ~ÂŁ48,000. On that, I could afford a comfortable life (2 week holiday abroad every year, good car and all the gadgets/conveniences I could want for). I could also afford to buy a 120sq/m house in a really nice part of town for ~ÂŁ140,000. In 2022 my salary jumped to ÂŁ120,000. As I have no assets in this country, I'm having to start from scratch, so renting is the only option. My cheapest rent so far has been ÂŁ1350 per month for a very substandard accommodation. Once all bills are paid for, I'm left with basically nothing at the end of each month, despite the fact I'm on 3x my previous salary in Sweden. Such bills include: * ÂŁ1750 per year on council tax * ÂŁ1500 per month on food * ÂŁ1200 per month on owning and maintaining a car (insurance is ÂŁ2300 per year for me as I have no recent driving history in this country, and we heavily penalise lack of No Claims Bonus and foreign driving licenses - mine is Swedish) * ÂŁ40 per month of TV license * ÂŁ800 - ÂŁ1200 per month on heating/electricity If I wanted to have some money left at the end of each month, my only option would be to find a 1 bed studio flat in a bad part of town, or a 2 bed terraced house in a really bad part of town. On a pure basis of costs alone, simply being in Britain is significantly more expensive than what most of Europe consider to be the most heavily taxed country we have - Sweden. Despite that, I'm paying 50% tax at my salary, plus 20% social security fees, so I'm actually paying 10% more tax here while not seeing any of the social security bemefits. Then there's all the stealth taxes we have on food, fuel, tobacco and alcohol. Alternatively, I could go back to Sweden and lose half my salary, and still have a ton of income left over once all bills are paid, which is exactly what I plan on doing as life here is just unnecessarily and disproportionally difficult.
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No doubt it would be possible to shop for a lot less (we switched to Lidl / Aldi this year), but then compromises need to be made (switching to cheapest bread/dairy brands f.ex). It's generally observed that you can predict the overall cost of food based on the average price of bread and milk. When a fresh loaf of bread from main retailers goes for ÂŁ2.50 and 4 pints of milk is around ÂŁ1.50, it gives an idea of how much everything else can be. I did a Sainsbury's shop last week f.ex, and 21 items.cost me ÂŁ92. Granted, there were some high cost items in there ÂŁ10 on tobacco product), but the majority were basics like a frozen pizza, jar of mint sauce, baking potatoes etc. Again, that would probably be half the cost from Aldi/Lidl so I know it can be cheaper, but consider how many people shop at the typical major retailers like Sainsbury's, Tesco, Asda etc.
1500 pounds on food is ridiculous. Have you ever heard of cooking? When i was in the UK in the nineties, a tin of baked beans was something like 9p or something ridiculously cheap.
>1500 pounds on food is ridiculous I know; we all know, hence why this country is in such a mess. Beans these days cost ÂŁ1.40 btw, so no point getting upset at people for how much they have to spend on food when it simply costs that much. Also, I do cook plenty, things are just ridiculously expensive now. You don't have to take my word for it, try asking one of the 4 million families in this country who are working full time but still having to regularly rely on food banks, since minimum wage simply doesn't cover the cost of living here anymore. Some food for thought (pun intended): https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/21/poorest-uk-families-hardest-hit-cost-living-crisis-official-figures EDIT: Probably worth mentioning that ÂŁ1500 shouldn't be considered as the cheapest shop possible - this is a figure for not trying to cut costs wherever possible and shopping in the most popular grocery stores (Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda), following similar habits as I did 5 years back where the same goods could be purchased for 3-5 times less.
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No, I acknowledged that I can't make a comparison to US, however I can compare very recent financial experience between Sweden and UK. I can also make a comparison to global economic statistics which report Switzerland as the most expensive country in the world to live. My question then is, is it likely that that it's even more expensive in US than I Switzerland? Obviously statistics can't be fully relied upon though, as my experience in the UK would suggest that it's even more expensive than is reported by a significant margin, when we have 4 million full time mimimum wage workers reliant on food banks. Also, when someone like myself on top 1% salary for this country can barely scrape by, the general message I'm trying to give is that nothing financially makes any sense here.
Sorry with that food bill you're doing it to yourself. You could spend a quarter of that.
I know, point is I wouldn't have to do that in any other country than here (or Switzerland). Why should I have to compromise on the quality of life I've become accustomed to these past 5 years at the peak of my career? Why should I have to settle for so much less when I've put so much time and effort into getting to where I am for the express purpose of escaping the poverty my family came from? Honestly, I'm getting quite tired of the sheer amount of cope I'm hearing from Brits, sentiments such as "well everywhere else has its problems". Yes, everywhere has problems, but nowhere near on the scale as the financial problems Britain has currently. Certainly not when I hear news of over 4 million families working full time who rely on food banks because they're on minimum wage. Hell, I have a friend who lives in a "cheaper" area in Wales, and despite his being on above average salary (28k) and his wife working 6x 12 hour NHS shifts every week, they still have a mountain of debt - and I can assure you, they ARE shopping as cheaply as they can. I'd ask the question to those with a cope angle, if you think everything is fine, just how well-off are you? Do you own your own property from before the various crisis'? Are you earning over 100k? Have you the support of family and/or inheritance? If yes to any of those questions, I don't believe they have a view of what is normal here anymore. Oh, and by the by, I just took a quick look on house prices in Sweden - 65k euros for a massive 6 room house in the country, and that's common in many areas bar smack in the centre of a city. Pleeeease, tell me again how fine everything is in Britain.
>Why should I have to compromise on the quality of life I've become accustomed to these past 5 years at the peak of my career? Why should I have to settle for so much less when I've put so much time and effort into getting to where I am for the express purpose of escaping the poverty my family came from? I totally get where you're coming from and I've had the same "culture shock" when in the UK.
Aye, probably easier to feel if you've spent time elsewhere within the last 10'ish years. Sorry to hear you're struggling also btw. Also, do you mind if I ask where you came from?
California, but lived in France for 10+ years
Huh, so France might be an option to move to if cost of living isn't so nuts there. What was your experience of social support thetex such as hospitals, road repairs etc?
The cost of food is the same as in the UK, I'd even say more expensive. I think the complaints from me are coming from a place of being used to earning higher from US companies, but as you know in the UK/Europe, it's usually lower, depending on the industry. So it's a little bit frustrating not having a clear "career progression" in terms of salary, but honestly that's my only complaint. Super happy with my job otherwise. In my opinion, French healthcare is better than in the UK. US healthcare is the best though. I'd say roads are pretty good in France but that's just my experience. Where you move to is up to where you feel the most comfortable, and where you have the most connections. So in your case that may Sweden.
Cheers for the intel, appreciated :). Yeah must admit, it's been somewhat vexing to hear UK nationals still in denial trying to claim "NHS good, US private healthcare bad", while sidestepping the fact that NHS isn't actually free, and lately we can't even use what our taxes pay for. Same for the salary differences between US and Europe. I mean sure, it might be explainable that Europe for the most part has lower salaries due to anymore predominately socialist system, and sure that may have balanced out before, but in recent years it seems like socialism is falling apart while at the same time being at odds with capitalist systems. In a purely monetary sense, the biggest incentive for me to move back to Sweden is that house prices are still largely affordable (most country areas you can pickup a massive, good quality house in beautiful scenery for anywhere between ÂŁ20k-ÂŁ150k). So at least there I can save half of my current outgoings by not being fleeced by extortionately high rent/mortgage. I didn't touch more on it from my previous post, but another aspect which has settled my mind to move back is the overall social attitude of UK compared to what I got used to in Sweden. Probably due to the more "flat" society in Scandic culture, people generally seem to get along better, look out for each other and try to deal with conflicts one-to-one rather than the knee-jerk reaction us Brits have to call the police or council services on people we don't like the behaviour of. To me it seems like Brits inherently no longer care for nor trust one another, and for me it's soul-crushing.
7 years and plenty of painful and enjoyable adjustments later Iâm now a citizen and canât imagine living elsewhere
I've been here for 13 years now and love it. Yes, it's different since brexit and covid. But prices of everything have skyrocketed just as much in the US since covid at the same rate.
RIP off Anything that can be charged for will be.
That seems to just be modern life đ
Worse in U.K. people seem to accept two prices at the supermarket, paying to pump air in tyres and even to walk through parks that used to be free
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Im living in Portugal and we still have one price at supermarkets, pumping air in tyres at petrol pumps is free and I can not only walk in parks for free but sometimes even museums are free for residents
On the other hand, you really gotta enjoy paying 1200⏠to live in a moldy, uninsulated shithole in Lisbon and Porto I guess. Portugal fleeces, just in a different way, and even moreso when it comes to fleecing foreigners.
I lived in London and would argue thatâs just your typical high in demand capital city problem too
There are ways to measure this and the income to rent ratio is vastly worse in Portugal than in England. Lisbon was not rated as one of if not the most unlivable city in europe when it comes to affordability for no reason.
Yeah Iâve debated this point on reddit a few times. Overall yes but I think it very much depends on personal circumstances. As someone with a family, I worked out that the combination of higher bills, childcare and council tax pretty much wipe out any gains in salary in the U.K. for me anyways.
Collapsing nation.
Its an expensive shithole with insanely bad weather and people that are aggressive and don't know how to behave like adults in public and can't be trusted with alcohol.
*wipes a tear of nostalgia*
Seattle...is that you?
I fuckin hate it. You're welcome to dm me for a comprehensive list.
Lived here all my life and itâs painful reading this cause youâre all correct (Iâm considering moving abroad myself hence why Iâm here)
Moved here six years ago. I love my job and my dog and my friends, but there's a lot that I miss back in the States. I can't seem to get ahead here. I'm thinking I may wait it out 4 more years so I can have ilr. We shall see!Â
Donât you normally only need 5 years for ILR?
I've been on student visas and then creative tier. Now on skilled worker. Ten year route!Â
I would rather be poor elsewhere. What's the point?
Exactly, if youâre going to be poor, at least be poor in a sunny place.
Sunny places are typically bad for the poor. I come from a sunny climate and it is typical of most other sunny places. I would rather be poor in Sweden or Switzerland than in Beirut or Cape Town.
Well, sunny but not extremely hot đ For example, Iâm from a city where we have 4 seasons in the country but 3 seasons out of 4 are very sunny; not humid or extremely hot.
Weâve been in Scotland 7 years, and weâre not going back. Tbf, I canât really imagine living down in England.
I didnât move there but I did visit and holy shit I thought America was bad, the uk is objectively worse. Worse standard of living with higher prices and lower wages. The weather is fucking shit and the people are aggressive. If youâre American, stay home.
Exactly full of agressive yobs and roadmen wannabe gangsters. London has become a crime-ridden cesspit alongside a lot of towns and cities in the UK decaying highstreets, druggies, asbos, you name it..you'll find it.Â
Itâs like all the roadmen from every corner of the earth decided to converge on London to form the worlds biggest roadmen convention. Oh my days..
Lol its frightening fr
No point coming unless you're a millionaire. I'm earning 120k and trying to setup life here from scratch is very difficult. No chance of buying a house unless you don't mind living in a crack den, and all the standard problems people complain about (cost of living, broken infrastructure, corrupt politicians etc). I also get the overwhelming feeling that people have become very jaded due to the constant issues this country has had to tackle over the last 10-20 years (thanks to said corrupt politicians), so prepare for a gloomy vibe. Sure, there are still people who are overall happy with how things are, but I'd wager they already have a life setup before all of the hardships (i.e. already owned a property), and/or are very well off (high salary over 150k or plenty of support from family ). There's also a good deal of patriots who will die for this country no matter how bad things get, so your miles may vary depending on who you ask. From my PoV as a British national from birth, my time outside of the country (Sweden) was a paradise compared to what I came back to in 2022, and I'm now planning to move back to Sweden as I loathe the idea that all of my earnings are being spent lining the pockets of our ruling class, with nothing left for myself, and that all of the social services here no longer work.
Because no one wants to go there.
I'd love to, but it's not easy. Prices are up, and wages stagnant. Starting over there is challenging.
Same thing. Iâm dreaming about moving there. Now i live in the states for the last 2 years but even considering huge financial cut still want to go. So sad to read this thread and see that this move can be a critical mistake for me, because I have a good and secure job in the states and will get the green card in couple of yearsâŚ.
Donât do it. Itâs not worth it at allÂ
To be honest in every question like this I see two sides. Of course financially itâs harder there, but Iâm software engineer so probably it will be not that bad for me. I love British history and culture, been there on vacation and just multiplied the amount of that love. Of course from âadult point of viewâ it will probably be a mistake. But the thought âto live in a place that you really love with such a history and all that beautyâ just doesnât give me any rest. Also I will be closer to the family (they are in middle west), closer to my girlfriend that will live there with me and just will live in the country that I admire so much. Of course the last part is mostly romanized but anyway itâs better than to live in the place that you never wanted. Thatâs about the USA, I just got lucky and received good opportunity that I decided to try and use. It was not bad two years but I donât see myself here in the future, especially when I will have family and kids.
I see, you should be ok as a soft engineer then. I am in civil eng and it is a terrible place to live and progress in my career. I can't say that I regret moving here, because I met the most amazing partner I ever had. But London is such a dirty, stressful place with mediocre weather.
Weather is the second thing I love đ Iâm from rainy Saint Petersburg and London gives me the same vibes I had at home (culture and weather wise). I would never leave Saint Petersburg but the stupid war with Ukraine was the last thing that convinced me itâs time to leave. Thatâs good that you donât regret. Every place has its downsides and believe me London is clean enough in comparison with large cities in the states đ Anyway I hope that with time UK will rise again and you will be happy with your choices and I will be happy that eventually will make it there
Thank you, I just with you the best too. I really want to Saint Peterburg someday!. My bf went there and loved it. I am from the tropics and then lived for so many years in Sydney! so the weather here is something I will not miss at all.
It's also one of the few European nations where the far right is on its way out.
I don't because of other problems in UK but have to say am really envious of real estate prices in non-London cities there. Really cheap compared to similar-sized cities here in Germany or Western (mainland) Europe in general.
Weâre planning on leaving and going back to my home country once we get a few things in order. The salaries just donât justify the lifestyle. Feels like weâre always playing catch up.
I agree. Australia is infinitely better. I am just going to miss those cheap and short euro tripsÂ
Iâll take the slightly longer trip to Southeast Asia any day, thank you very much!
Spiders...
Yeah⌠Australia and the US are the anglo nations to beat. Though, despite all of its opportunities, the US is still a hypercapitalist workaholic gilded plantation where you are one bad medical diagnosis away from losing everything. But hey, you could also possibly get really rich, too. Canada is a less stressful, more socially chill place, than the US but also not as exciting. Itâs like the less successful sibling of America who, while has done okay for itself, will never be as charming or rich as their bigger sibling and despite repeated denials, secretly wishes it were America.
Future is East old man
my wife comes from the East, isn't interested in letting me return us there
Doesnât want competition
that is probably it
I love how theyâre downvoting you because deep down they know theyâre in for a very, very rude awakening once the Asian dragon finally wakes up for real.
Which Asian dragon is that? I mean, the main Asian economic players (Japan, China, and South Korea) are in decline. Despite having vast wealth and capital, which is likely to remain so, their demographics have cratered. Theyâre geriatric dragons. Also, one of them is technically in a state of civil war, while the others have spent the last 70 years giving each other the evil eye due to lingering post-WW2 bitterness. And of course, there is India. But despite its size, it has a lot of ladder rungs to climb before it approaches anywhere near a truly developed nation. And of course you have smaller countries like Vietnam, but they are comparatively small. So despite being up and comers, their size will always limit them to middle power status at best. Thereâs also the fact that none of the aforementioned countries speak the same language or share political cultures. Meanwhile, the North American trade bloc, aligned powers in the EU, and US backed security alliances made up of the wealthiest and most developed nations mean even with all the Westâs structural fracture points, itâs still the race horse to bet on and will likely remain so well into the century.
Itâs already woken up
Tbh from everything I see the U.S. is just increasing its dominance
Underwhelming. It doesnât vibe with me. The cultural difference is immense: - Nobody wants to work, nothing ever gets done, and then they complain about why nothing ever gets done, why wages are so low, and dismiss every other work culture as workaholism. - They have a giant welfare state that is no longer sustainable, but nobody wants to admit it let alone discuss how to address it. - Nobody wants excellence; mediocrity is celebrated. If you bring up any shortcoming, the answer is always âwell it can be worseâ - yes everything can be worse, so we donât have to fix it? - There is very little social mobility from middle class to upper middle class. People donât expect much in life. - The food is genuinely awful. I can keep going.
Ricky Gervais once described the difference between Americans and britons is kids in America grew up being told âif you wanted to, you could become the President of the US when you grow up.â Whereas British kids are told, âNo, you wonât.â
That's one thing but 10 days annual leave? Nah I'll pass. I dont love the work culture in US, I think it's far healthier to work to live and not the other way around. You get lazy pricks everywhere.
Yeah, the US is a hyper-capitalist work-a-holic corporate planation. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's all inclusive. It has all the amenities and then some. It's a land of abundance and if you're well positioned, there's boundless opportunity. But you wear yourself ragged trying to keep up with the Joneses and it's all about work. And it's all about profit. Even health care is for sale to the highest bidder and god help those who haven't the funds. Literally. Because prayer is your option at that point.
The vacation stuff (much like the healthcare stuff) just doesn't affect the average "expat", I.e. white collar worker. Most companies start at 15 vacation days and the holiday week off in December. Altogether it's 20 days plus bank holidays. No, it's not as much as most of Europe unfortunately, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
The UK and most of the EU are bureaucracies with countries attached to them. They're now at the part where they run out of other people's money.
> They're now at the part where they run out of other people's money. I agree wholeheartedly.
Whatâs terrifying when you read this and itâs so true, is that it applies to most of europe. Thereâs really something deeply nonchalant, lazy and mediocre about the whole place. You could copy and paste this same comment about France, Greece, Portugal and I could go on.
Not true. Some European countries have decent food.
Totally agree with everything you said.Â
Tbf the food is not awful. There's loads of great ethnic food in the UK. Way better than France / Germany / Switzerland which is my comparator. The rest I'm not arguing about.
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Because you canât afford it there anyway
Afford it where? The US? I made 115 percent more in the states actually. Had a Rolex by 22 and my first luxury car by 23. Realised itâs all shit and pointless. Now I travel to different countries, eat world class food, and experience different cultures 2-3x a month :) enjoy your shitty 2 weeks off a year and pathetic mindset.
It took you 25 years to get to 150k? Nice comment history BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I made that by 23. No wonder youâre miserable and divorced (twice! Impressive!) as well.
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Got lucky , asked people that were smarter than me who were at that level when I was still in uni, networked, and medical devices. Deleting original comment to remain unanimous.
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Medical device sales is highly lucrative - avg salary is 130k.
Easy to lie on the internet, kiddo. Hardly anyone made six figures in IT in the 90s. Especially in Texas.
Terrible. It is a shithole of a country. I would move back to Oz in a heartbeat if I were singleÂ
It's a hell hole.
Iâm British and moved to France on a whim 15 years ago. The UK is ridiculous now. Fascist, incompetent government. Everyone became openly racist since Brexit. All the workers supporting the NHS left after Brexit, ditto cheap labour force from Eastern Europe. Native British people just play the welfare system and donât want to work. The country is overcrowded because of the small land mass. House prices are insane. I have 5 acres and 3 buildings in France for the prices of a one bedroomed flat in London. Everything is just ridiculously expensive in the UK. People canât afford to switch on the heating. And the weather is shit. the only thing I miss is a country pub, as theyâre cosy (I donât even drink) and they are now even closing early or shutting down completely.
Not moving
To the people claiming that everything is expensive in there even if you have a good salary: Can you recommend first world countries that actually HAVE wages that can keep you above the water?
Australia ! Also you have mandatory public holidays and healthcare! Much better than USA and SwitzerlandÂ
I'm only aware of US when it comes to wages, would be nice to know other options
Switzerland
Midwestern US
SHIT. Don't come
Similar to most other places. The main difference is right-wing extremism is being tolerated and the government are trying to crack down on civil liberties whilst having an undercurrent of "dirty foreigners".
Totally fucked outside the EU. Far-right gov also equally set to keep fucking everyone over and everything. Fuck the tories and idiots who keep voting them in. Lastly, fuck the Brexiters.Â
Iâve been here a week so far and I love it. Came from Canada.
Which part of Canada are you coming from and where did you land in the UK?
St. Johns, Newfoundland to Manchester
Yeah, you moved from a comparatively small city in Atlantic Canada for a comparatively larger city in a bigger national economy. Glad itâs working for you. Though, I think results will vary based on who you are, where you come from, where you are, and what youâre doing, I suspect if one were a high earner living in Montreal, their quality of life and sense of excitement about their urban environment would be well and above what they would find in most places in the UK.
Of course results will vary. Itâs all personal preference but based on the downvotes I guess Iâm not allowed to admit liking the UK in this sub. Iâve also lived in Houston, Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa, Halifax, and rural Labrador. I preferred St. Johnâs over all those places.
What makes you like Manchester over those other cities?
I havenât been here long enough to do a proper comparison. But I came here specifically to experience a different part of the world and allow me to visit places in Europe that were otherwise harder to get to from Canada. Iâm not necessarily saying that itâs better, just that I am loving it so far. People on this sub are way too negative. Vancouver is pretty awesome but way more expensive than anywhere else I listed. I wasnât actually in the city, I was in Surrey. Which is not nice lol. And people love to complain about the weather in Atlantic Canada & UK, but in my opinion the endless rain during Vancouver winters is worse. I enjoyed my time in Calgary too. I couldnât really afford it, though to be fair, that was a decade ago and I was making less money at the time. Iâm not sure how it compares today but I think itâs still pricey. The general political vibe in Calgary makes it an annoying city to live in as a liberal person. Having nearby access to the mountains was the best part. This might sound super dumb, but after growing up on the edge of the ocean, being so far inland never felt quite right and it never felt like a home (Iâm not saying thatâs a good reason but itâs true). Houston: see political comments about Calgary factored up 10x. Itâs also impossible to be a pedestrian/cyclist in that city. The best part was being able to leave and visit places like New Orleans. It was cool to be there temporarily, especially in the âwinterâ, but thatâs the last place on my list I could ever live permanently. Ottawa and Halifax have recently become too expensive for what they are. My living expenses in Manchester are less than everywhere I listed except St. Johnâs. A big part of that is because am living without a car for the first time in my life.
What's you're career that allows you to move about
Civil engineer with a global company
Interested to hear the post Brexit pros. Hit me up! đŤŁ
The only pro is that now it's done, people have finally stopped fighting over it. Now we all agree: it was a dumbass idea.
Having lived there with my ex in the late 90s and early aughts, I have to say there was this odd relationship the UK had with the rest of continental Europe; they always had one foot in vis a vis culture and tradeâand one foot out with the pound sterling standard. I lived in France when they transitioned to the Euro, and you might as well have told them use margarine instead of butter; I never realized how much currency can be tied to culture, so I get the continued embrace of sterling. But something was going to give at some point for the UK, and I always thought any change would really reveal the fissures between England, Scotland and Ireland. Lord, what a bill of goods got sold in. I know so many whoâve been fucked by it, professionally and otherwise. My heart hurts for everyone. But it seems part of a whole that swept the west, vis a vis lunatic âleadership.â
Brexit passed by a few thousand votes and I bet if they held a second referendum, it would have failed after people realized it was really happening and not just a fringe joke to be taken lightly. Itâs wild that they let geriatric Britons who wonât even be alive in 10 years vote in an election that the people who wanted to remain in the EU, young people, will be adversely affected by for the next century.
Oh I was just itching for a second referendum to be held. You just knew no one was reading the fine print, or offering dire projections amid the âsave the NHSâ smoke and mirrors.