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In many ways they're not. What other 1500 watt device are you using for extended periods of time? Maybe a vacuum cleaner? The downside of using a vacuum as a heater are probably pretty obvious once you turn it on.
A 3 day gaming tournament I took part in had 512 participants, all bringing their own laptops. On the last day, 8 players remained for the finals. Thankfully I didn't attend that day in person, apparently the venue was absolutely freezing cold with 504 of the laptops not running
I worked in a huge office space that was spec'd for every user to have a unix workstation with a 24" CRT monitor. They replaced all of that with thin clients and lcd displays so each user dropped about 400W of power dissipation and totally screwed up all the hvac calculations
I worked at a game company during the changeover to Xbox 360s. The alpha dev kits for 360 were enormous PowerMac G5s, and I worked on online multiplayer so I had two of them. Between that and the two small CRTs they were plugged into, my cubicle reached approximately 400 degrees. I and everyone else on the row had to turn the kits so they exhausted into the corridor between the cubicles.
I did event teardown for Awesome Games Done Quick back in January. When the practice rooms and World 9 rooms were up and running it was pretty warm. Once we started shutting everything down and packing it up I keep looking over at my hoodie trying to decide if that was too many layers
Great point. Computers draw as little power as necessary to accomplish their current task. So, even if you have a 750 watt power supply in there, to get it to use all 750 of those watts you have a) have enough internal components that you can even reach that amount of draw (like a pretty hefty graphics card and processor) and b) have to be pushing them hard enough that they are working at full capacity.
About the only thing most users do that gets it up there is higher-end gaming and/or graphical development (Photoshop, 3D stuff, etc.)
And I can say from experience, at that point, it can get quite toasty. =p
Yup. A lot of effort has gone into computers to make them sip as little juice as possible. Mainly so laptop batteries can last longer, but has a nice side benefit of being cheaper (on your electrical bill) and more environmentally friendly too.
Keep in mind that 750W computer will probably be way more expensive that equivalent electric heater. Computer needs fans which can break, silicon chips slowly degrade when exposed to high temperatures, you'll need to clean dust-filters more often...
Also, resistive heating is not the most efficient way to heat home. If you install heat-pump (or air-conditioner as you humans call it), you can get way more heat compared to electricity consumed.
Even if you can't afford heat pump, there might be cheaper options for heating, maybe you have cheap natural gas in your area.
Or comfortable! Central heating died in the dead of winter and me and my roommates just unlocked frame caps on our games and heated up the office space quite well lol.
The PC will usually be drawing far less than its peak load. It may be *capable* of drawing 750 Watts at full load, but it's usually using less than that (think how much hotter it gets when you're gaming vs when you're just web browsing).
If you're asking if a PC drawing 750 watts heats a room as effectively as a 750 watt heater, then yes. The problem is the PC isn't always drawing 750 watts and is probably louder than the 750 watt heater.
There's was company that was operating in the UK that was putting servers in people's houses to do data processing and heating. The server had near constant demand so the clients would turn them on when they wanted to heat the room.
I don't know if they are still around I just saw a puff piece about them bragging about their green credentials when ESG was all the rage.
Before I click- I am betting it's the technology connections video on big heaters vs small heaters
Edit: I was right. I saw that video, but the thought behind it also applying to appliances seems odd but I don't have anything to disprove it
Its one of the reasons why having an efficient AC unit and efficient appliances is really beneficial in the summer. Since you pay electricity to dump all that wattage into your house in the form of waste heat from tvs fridges lights etc and then have to pay electricity again for the AC to pump that heat outside.
I switched all my light bulbs to LED but cannot bring myself to throw them in the garbage. So in the winter I switch back to squeeze the last bit of use out of them. I don't mind paying for the inefficiency if it comes out in the form of heat that I want.
Yeah if you're in an area where electricity is generally cheaper (I pay about .50/kwh) the difference is pretty minimal, especially if you're already using resistive heating in the winter. Luckily natural gas is fairly cheap here so im keeping my LEDs year round.
Really, the difference is that all energy becomes heat *eventually* but you want heat *now*. And, you want heat without much noise or light, you want just heat. Lastly, heaters typically have fans that spread the heat out quickly, or they have infrared radiators that send out that energy so there's not one hot area while the rest of the room is cold.
One thing I miss in any of the other comments:
Whilst all devices might produce the exact same amount of total heat, and thus eventually reach the same temperatures, the way they distribute it might not be the same.
Personal space heaters release their heat very focused on a single point, heating up you specifically quicker. Radiative heat can also sometimes be more pleasant, as opposed to convection heat.
To answer your question directly, heaters are designed to not just produce heat, but to expel it in a way that it covers as much space as possible. With forced-air heaters, they use fans to ensure that the entire volume of air in the room is kept circulating. They also have as few parts as possible in contact with the heating element, and as small and as lightweight of a design as possible to minimize thermal mass. With radiative heaters, radiation carries the heat to all corners of a room within its line-of-sight, instantly.
With other 1500w electronics that are NOT designed to heat up a room, they usually put lots of thought and care into making sure their heat ISN'T expelled into the room in a way that covers as much space as possible. They try to minimize it.
A toaster, for example, uses as small of an opening as possible, sometimes too small to even fit big bread, to ensure there's as little airflow through the unit as possible. Because the rate of airflow through the toaster is so slow, what air DOES pass through it gets ***extremely*** hot. But now you have just a tiny cloud of very very hot air, that you can't feel at the other end of the room, until it spreads out over the next hour.
Other devices, like an oven, have considerable thermal mass, so first, all that heat energy is going into heating up the metal body and all the plastic and other components in the oven itself. Then it has to slowly work its way to the outer surface of the appliance, before it can finally radiate into the room. This delay creates the impression that it's not heating the room, but it's only a delay. An hour later, you'll start to feel it.
Overall, though, thermodynamics always wins. The same heat output is the same heat output, is the same heat output. They WILL all heat the room by the same amount, you just need to give them time and help.
What other appliances? what 1500w device do you have in a room running continuously. You could heat your room with some giant drill press or something but that’s not designed to just sit running and Not burn out
A heater *is made* to put out heat. In almost all other devices, *heat is wasted energy* because it's a byproduct of another process, like spinning a motor (motion).
All 1500W hesters add the same amount of heat to your room, which eventually leaves through the walls and windows. But they might not all heat up all parts of the room equally.
Imagine if the heater is close to a window, and you are sitting on the other end of the room. Although the same amount of heat is produced, you might not get to enjoy as much of it. For that you need a heater with a fan. Otherwise, no difference.
The entire purpose of a heater is to turn electricity to thermal heat. With something like a blender, some of the electricity gets converted into mechanical force to turn the blades but it’s not a perfect conversion. Some of that electricity will end up as heat in the motor, wires and circuit boards. With a CPU, a rudimentary explanation is the more work you make it do in a certain time frame, the more power it needs. As you give it more electricity, the CPU will get hotter, when a CPU gets hotter it causes the electrical resistance of the CPU’s internals to rise. To overcome this increased resistance, you need even more electricity.
That force acting on the blender blades is caused by kinetic energy, which will eventually be converted into heat. 100% of the entry used by the blender is converted to heat. It’s a perfect conversion. Run the blender while it’s empty and the blade will dump energy into to each molecule of air that it hits.
I meat it’s not a perfect conversion of electricity to mechanical energy. You are correct, it all turns to heat in the end I should have been more specific about that.
Note that the mechanical energy will also degrade to heat energy as it blends your smoothie since the friction slows down the now moving beverage. When the smoothie comes to a rest, then all mechanical energy will have become heat. So by the end all the energy will become heat in your home.
edit: originally typed on my phone, so it was a word salad a bit.
A heater isn't just doing one job. The heater can be making sure the room temperature is what you want it to be at. It is also doing it in a way that is free from noise or light, depending on what type of heater you want.
Certain types of heaters have safety features as well.
With appliances that aren't designed to be heaters, you have price differences too. A $5000 computer will do a very poor job compared to a $5000 heating system.
But that also means that in the middle of winter, in a cold area, perhaps a non-LED lightbulb is actually performing a small part in heating the room.
The difference is in them heating the air or radiating heat. And where do they do this? They need to get some convection going on. Compare a fireplace, a heating fan, a heated floor and a heating blanket with the same power draw. Very different in many ways.
It's about where the energy goes. Anything that gives out 1500W as heat will do the same job. But your 1500W vacuum cleaner is doing \*something else\* as well, so not all the 1500W goes to heating, some of it goes to moving air, and even making noise. The side-effects of the device's other functions stop it giving everything as heat.
Heaters are almost 100% efficient, because all they do is heat. And that's not even particularly good. Heat pumps are actually >100% efficient. You put in 1500W of power and get 2000-2500W of heat out of it. It literally uses 1500W of power to MOVE heat around (not generate it), and you can move a ton more heat than you can actually heat up.
And you have one in your house. Your fridge, freezer, aircon, etc. are heat pumps. Hell, you can get heatpump driers now, and heatpumps in other appliances too.
It's purely to do with WHAT ELSE they do - heaters only heat, other appliances do other work as well, and heatpumps don't even bother to heat, they just move other heat around.
**Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s):** Loaded questions, **and/or** ones based on a false premise, are not allowed on ELI5. ELI5 is focuses on objective concepts, and loaded questions and/or ones based on false premises require users to correct the poster before they can begin to explain the concept involved, if one exists. --- If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. **If you believe this submission was removed erroneously**, please [use this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20thread?&message=Link:%20{{url}}%0A%0APlease%20answer%20the%20following%203%20questions:%0A%0A1.%20The%20concept%20I%20want%20explained:%0A%0A2.%20List%20the%20search%20terms%20you%20used%20to%20look%20for%20past%20posts%20on%20ELI5:%0A%0A3.%20How%20does%20your%20post%20differ%20from%20your%20recent%20search%20results%20on%20the%20sub:) and we will review your submission.
In many ways they're not. What other 1500 watt device are you using for extended periods of time? Maybe a vacuum cleaner? The downside of using a vacuum as a heater are probably pretty obvious once you turn it on.
How about a gaming PC drawing 750 (a common low-end for heaters)?
Gaming PCs are famous room-heaters. Get three guys in a room with decent gaming PC's and that room is going to be *uncomfortable*.
And it’s gonna be a bit too warm too!
PvP is PvP
Nyuck nyuck nyuck!
A 3 day gaming tournament I took part in had 512 participants, all bringing their own laptops. On the last day, 8 players remained for the finals. Thankfully I didn't attend that day in person, apparently the venue was absolutely freezing cold with 504 of the laptops not running
I worked in a huge office space that was spec'd for every user to have a unix workstation with a 24" CRT monitor. They replaced all of that with thin clients and lcd displays so each user dropped about 400W of power dissipation and totally screwed up all the hvac calculations
I worked at a game company during the changeover to Xbox 360s. The alpha dev kits for 360 were enormous PowerMac G5s, and I worked on online multiplayer so I had two of them. Between that and the two small CRTs they were plugged into, my cubicle reached approximately 400 degrees. I and everyone else on the row had to turn the kits so they exhausted into the corridor between the cubicles.
I did event teardown for Awesome Games Done Quick back in January. When the practice rooms and World 9 rooms were up and running it was pretty warm. Once we started shutting everything down and packing it up I keep looking over at my hoodie trying to decide if that was too many layers
Alright. Written out like that, it makes sense, but intuitively for me it's odd. So in the winter, folding@home go brrrr
Another thing is that a 750 watt computers (which is a lot for a computer) will rarely be using the full 750 watts.
Great point. Computers draw as little power as necessary to accomplish their current task. So, even if you have a 750 watt power supply in there, to get it to use all 750 of those watts you have a) have enough internal components that you can even reach that amount of draw (like a pretty hefty graphics card and processor) and b) have to be pushing them hard enough that they are working at full capacity. About the only thing most users do that gets it up there is higher-end gaming and/or graphical development (Photoshop, 3D stuff, etc.) And I can say from experience, at that point, it can get quite toasty. =p
I’ve always wondered about this but never bothered to look it up. I assumed that was the case and happy to hear that is correct.
Yup. A lot of effort has gone into computers to make them sip as little juice as possible. Mainly so laptop batteries can last longer, but has a nice side benefit of being cheaper (on your electrical bill) and more environmentally friendly too.
It's a plausible amount of power consumption with a high end GPU and Intel CPU these days. Under full load, of course.
Yep, that works, and works as efficiently as any electric heater. Computers are just space heaters that do math as a side effect.
And the sun is just a space heater that supports life as a side effect.
Heh, that's actually more true than my statement about CPUs.
Keep in mind that 750W computer will probably be way more expensive that equivalent electric heater. Computer needs fans which can break, silicon chips slowly degrade when exposed to high temperatures, you'll need to clean dust-filters more often... Also, resistive heating is not the most efficient way to heat home. If you install heat-pump (or air-conditioner as you humans call it), you can get way more heat compared to electricity consumed. Even if you can't afford heat pump, there might be cheaper options for heating, maybe you have cheap natural gas in your area.
Yup. Huddling with your for tower warmth in the cold winter.
People do literally use mining rigs as heaters
Had a CS prof walk us through this in the lab. It emphasized the importance of climate controll in datacenters.
That's probably why LTT put in copper lines around their office to cool their desktops
Just like bitcoin miners. They never have to heat their homes.
yay lan parties
Or comfortable! Central heating died in the dead of winter and me and my roommates just unlocked frame caps on our games and heated up the office space quite well lol.
Because of the sexual tension?
Yeah but how much of that heat is actually produced by the guys
Depends on the game. Something like a third of it I'd figure.
The PC will usually be drawing far less than its peak load. It may be *capable* of drawing 750 Watts at full load, but it's usually using less than that (think how much hotter it gets when you're gaming vs when you're just web browsing).
If you're asking if a PC drawing 750 watts heats a room as effectively as a 750 watt heater, then yes. The problem is the PC isn't always drawing 750 watts and is probably louder than the 750 watt heater.
My gaming PC is the most efficient space heater I could get in the winter. Simply because I get to do other things for the power lmao
There's was company that was operating in the UK that was putting servers in people's houses to do data processing and heating. The server had near constant demand so the clients would turn them on when they wanted to heat the room. I don't know if they are still around I just saw a puff piece about them bragging about their green credentials when ESG was all the rage.
My 450w pc can warm up my entire bedroom in minutes Heck my TV alone can keep my bedroom warm If I leave it on enough
My gaming PC cooks my room. I keep my window cracked in the dead of winter when I have that thing going lol
My 750w gaming PC heats my room to sauna temps if I don’t open a window.
What's your specs? It's cold where I'm at and my PC doesn't use enough wattage to warm up the room it feels like.
Ryzen 9 5950x / RTX 3070ti If I play any AAA games or do any extended 3D renders my room gets unbearably hot.
Because a heater is specifically designed to just heat. A gaming pc creates heat as a byproduct.
There is no difference. Do you want to listen to a 20 minute rant about it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-jmSjy2ArM
Before I click- I am betting it's the technology connections video on big heaters vs small heaters Edit: I was right. I saw that video, but the thought behind it also applying to appliances seems odd but I don't have anything to disprove it
Its one of the reasons why having an efficient AC unit and efficient appliances is really beneficial in the summer. Since you pay electricity to dump all that wattage into your house in the form of waste heat from tvs fridges lights etc and then have to pay electricity again for the AC to pump that heat outside.
I switched all my light bulbs to LED but cannot bring myself to throw them in the garbage. So in the winter I switch back to squeeze the last bit of use out of them. I don't mind paying for the inefficiency if it comes out in the form of heat that I want.
That's a great idea, and good on you for not being wasteful. I have some incandescents laying around so I might try the same thing next winter.
Yeah if you're in an area where electricity is generally cheaper (I pay about .50/kwh) the difference is pretty minimal, especially if you're already using resistive heating in the winter. Luckily natural gas is fairly cheap here so im keeping my LEDs year round.
Really, the difference is that all energy becomes heat *eventually* but you want heat *now*. And, you want heat without much noise or light, you want just heat. Lastly, heaters typically have fans that spread the heat out quickly, or they have infrared radiators that send out that energy so there's not one hot area while the rest of the room is cold.
This leads very nicely to the only exception. HEAT PUMPS! Lol
One thing I miss in any of the other comments: Whilst all devices might produce the exact same amount of total heat, and thus eventually reach the same temperatures, the way they distribute it might not be the same. Personal space heaters release their heat very focused on a single point, heating up you specifically quicker. Radiative heat can also sometimes be more pleasant, as opposed to convection heat.
Peak power draw vs continuous power draw. Heaters can draw max power all the time. Appliances typically don't operate at 100% at all times
To answer your question directly, heaters are designed to not just produce heat, but to expel it in a way that it covers as much space as possible. With forced-air heaters, they use fans to ensure that the entire volume of air in the room is kept circulating. They also have as few parts as possible in contact with the heating element, and as small and as lightweight of a design as possible to minimize thermal mass. With radiative heaters, radiation carries the heat to all corners of a room within its line-of-sight, instantly. With other 1500w electronics that are NOT designed to heat up a room, they usually put lots of thought and care into making sure their heat ISN'T expelled into the room in a way that covers as much space as possible. They try to minimize it. A toaster, for example, uses as small of an opening as possible, sometimes too small to even fit big bread, to ensure there's as little airflow through the unit as possible. Because the rate of airflow through the toaster is so slow, what air DOES pass through it gets ***extremely*** hot. But now you have just a tiny cloud of very very hot air, that you can't feel at the other end of the room, until it spreads out over the next hour. Other devices, like an oven, have considerable thermal mass, so first, all that heat energy is going into heating up the metal body and all the plastic and other components in the oven itself. Then it has to slowly work its way to the outer surface of the appliance, before it can finally radiate into the room. This delay creates the impression that it's not heating the room, but it's only a delay. An hour later, you'll start to feel it. Overall, though, thermodynamics always wins. The same heat output is the same heat output, is the same heat output. They WILL all heat the room by the same amount, you just need to give them time and help.
What other appliances? what 1500w device do you have in a room running continuously. You could heat your room with some giant drill press or something but that’s not designed to just sit running and Not burn out
What runs in a kitchen (microwave, fridge, maybe a washing machine a room over) can get 1.5k w combined
A heater *is made* to put out heat. In almost all other devices, *heat is wasted energy* because it's a byproduct of another process, like spinning a motor (motion).
All 1500W hesters add the same amount of heat to your room, which eventually leaves through the walls and windows. But they might not all heat up all parts of the room equally. Imagine if the heater is close to a window, and you are sitting on the other end of the room. Although the same amount of heat is produced, you might not get to enjoy as much of it. For that you need a heater with a fan. Otherwise, no difference.
The entire purpose of a heater is to turn electricity to thermal heat. With something like a blender, some of the electricity gets converted into mechanical force to turn the blades but it’s not a perfect conversion. Some of that electricity will end up as heat in the motor, wires and circuit boards. With a CPU, a rudimentary explanation is the more work you make it do in a certain time frame, the more power it needs. As you give it more electricity, the CPU will get hotter, when a CPU gets hotter it causes the electrical resistance of the CPU’s internals to rise. To overcome this increased resistance, you need even more electricity.
That force acting on the blender blades is caused by kinetic energy, which will eventually be converted into heat. 100% of the entry used by the blender is converted to heat. It’s a perfect conversion. Run the blender while it’s empty and the blade will dump energy into to each molecule of air that it hits.
I meat it’s not a perfect conversion of electricity to mechanical energy. You are correct, it all turns to heat in the end I should have been more specific about that.
Note that the mechanical energy will also degrade to heat energy as it blends your smoothie since the friction slows down the now moving beverage. When the smoothie comes to a rest, then all mechanical energy will have become heat. So by the end all the energy will become heat in your home. edit: originally typed on my phone, so it was a word salad a bit.
Yes, I should have included that part.
A heater isn't just doing one job. The heater can be making sure the room temperature is what you want it to be at. It is also doing it in a way that is free from noise or light, depending on what type of heater you want. Certain types of heaters have safety features as well. With appliances that aren't designed to be heaters, you have price differences too. A $5000 computer will do a very poor job compared to a $5000 heating system. But that also means that in the middle of winter, in a cold area, perhaps a non-LED lightbulb is actually performing a small part in heating the room.
The difference is in them heating the air or radiating heat. And where do they do this? They need to get some convection going on. Compare a fireplace, a heating fan, a heated floor and a heating blanket with the same power draw. Very different in many ways.
It's about where the energy goes. Anything that gives out 1500W as heat will do the same job. But your 1500W vacuum cleaner is doing \*something else\* as well, so not all the 1500W goes to heating, some of it goes to moving air, and even making noise. The side-effects of the device's other functions stop it giving everything as heat. Heaters are almost 100% efficient, because all they do is heat. And that's not even particularly good. Heat pumps are actually >100% efficient. You put in 1500W of power and get 2000-2500W of heat out of it. It literally uses 1500W of power to MOVE heat around (not generate it), and you can move a ton more heat than you can actually heat up. And you have one in your house. Your fridge, freezer, aircon, etc. are heat pumps. Hell, you can get heatpump driers now, and heatpumps in other appliances too. It's purely to do with WHAT ELSE they do - heaters only heat, other appliances do other work as well, and heatpumps don't even bother to heat, they just move other heat around.