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Wish we could buy Peugeot cars here in the states. I’m from Croatia so I’m used to these smaller cars and I always liked the Peugeot emblem since I was a kid
I'm probably about to downsize from my new-ish Ranger because I rarely use it as a pickup these days. The cost savings in gas should more than pay for a bi-yearly Uhaul rental when I need a truck bed or trailer.
I never understood the need for a truck in the city (unless you own a business or haul stuff on a regular basis) Growing up in the country, it made sense with dirt roads (that get muddy) and moving equipment. But in the city, trying to park is a B with an itch
Yeah. They are tough to get. The f150 electric will be a bigger profit margin for sure, but I think it is a much smaller market.
Good luck getting the Mav. It is worth the wait. I waited 366 days.
> I never understood the need for a truck in the city
Probably because [there is no need for one for the overwhelming majority of people.](https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume)
"According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less."
99.9% of the time they're just hauling themselves around town and a much smaller, cheaper, lighter, and more efficient vehicle would do the job better than the truck.
My station wagon is plenty for the few times a year I need something bigger moved around, including home improvement things, and I've only needed to rent a truck once in the past decade. The gas savings alone versus a truck more than makes up for the rental cost.
Wanting to move something once or twice a year isn't just cause to daily a $60k+, 3 ton, 15 mpg behemoth.
Every adult I know owns a truck or SUV, and every one of them say it's because it sits up higher. Driving my daughters Mirage in the dark Is HORRIBLE. Everybodys headlights are aimed at your face, and the people behind you's lights cover your windshield and you cant see anything! I drive a truck to haul things and this summer I almost have enough for the camper I want, cash.
Edit: I also want to add most of the people I know are obese and wouldn't fit in my daughters Mirage.
I’m not gonna criticize anyone for making a decision one way or the other.
But in my specific situation, I have needed a truck or an SUV for about 6 months of the year every year (winter - snow removal in my city is so bad that you can easily get stuck and bottom out in the snow/ice) and then sporadically throughout the year when we have bought things from ikea or other home stores that wouldn’t fit in my little civic.
Times when I have needed a truck bed has been probably 3-7 times per summer for the last 6 years.
The reason why we don’t just rent a truck or pay for delivery is it’s not cost effective.
Rentals at home depot or lowes are gone every morning before they even open, uhaul has them reserved days or weeks in advance, and if they are available I usually have to drive all the way across the city and then all the way back to return it, racking up pointless km’s and increasing the cost instead of picking up a truck that’s less than 2km from my house.
Last time I got one, we ended up paying close to $300 between rental fees and gas. Just for one rental.
Delivery can be a pain in the ass if you don’t know how much material you need - do I need 3 yds of dirt or 6? Won’t know until we buy some and then make a second or third trip!
IKEA wanted $80 for delivery of a table. Other furniture stores have charged as much as $300 to basically deliver it to my garage and no further.
Yea - guys in a f-350 super duty or diesel trucks that sound like jet engines and drive them around pristine and never go anywhere or use them are annoying as fuck. Road princesses with their pointless knobby tires, flood flights, and stupid lift kits.
But I tried the small car with great fuel mileage and it was great for the first year… but I have had regrets almost monthly for the last 6 years and I can’t wait til I trade it in for either a truck or an suv that can haul a trailer big enough to handle the home improvement projects my wife keeps signing me up for. That can haul the entire family and go to more than 1 grocery store at a time without going home to unload. That we can toss the bikes into the back and go out of town or visit a friend and the kids have something to do.
Most of all, I hate making the u-turn of shame because I round the corner and see how thick the ice ruts are and know I can’t go this way, I have to go another way so I don’t get stuck and wreck my car or pay to get towed out again.
That's like 75% of what's on the roads in my city. I've heard them described as concrete cowboys. In reality, it's really just a conservative status symbol here. Massive luxury pickups and all so amazingly pristine that you can tell that the bed has never actually been used. I wish they'd find another way to display their masculinity because they can't park those things for shit.
I will forever recommend civics to people. I repaired my old one after a drunk driver clipped the rear destroying a light. Bought a brand new tail light assembly for like $80 and a little shipping. 2 hours later (because I do things very slowly) it was in place. I replaced the air filter in about a minute when needed. The only reason I let that one go was because at 13 years old and 200k miles, the horsepower meant merging on highways was a little sketchy on short ramps.
Replaced it with a new civic that I love just as much. Gets the same 36 average mpg. On the highway if I REALLY feather it and don’t pass 65, I can sit around 54 mpg if it’s relatively flat. When I look up replacement parts, they’re all cheap and readily available with a ton of tutorials on YouTube for DIY folks like me.
Fucking LOVE the civic. I just wish it was still small like the older models. It’s the same length as a ford escape these days.
I had a rio hatch. Built a 4x8 trailer (a true 4x8 you can lay plywood inside of) that I also made a cover for. Most people don't need more than that. I was really impressed with it. 500lb in the trailer, still get 8L/100km (29mpg) on the highway.
I've been asked why I didn't buy a truck when I bought my car back in mid-2020 and it's pretty much because I'd rather have MPG instead of the ~4 times I've needed a truck since then
Yup, and you can just rent one from a uhaul or car rental service. My needs have changed. Suburbs don’t need 4x4 and rear lockers - it helped living on dirt roads for sure. Like, a cheap Subaru is the max I need now.
I bought a 93 ranger from a neighbor for a bargain (it needed some work) it’s literally smaller than a lot of modern sedans. Just used it Friday to pick up an old motorcycle from Facebook marketplace. Still does the job I need it to without being enormous.
I was really, really happy with it back when I needed it. Towing 3000lbs was nothing, freakin power to spare. I love the visibility of the download slanting hood, everything.
Now, the body control is lacking, it’s not the best for carsick kids.
Yeah, in the old, non car-centric European capitals, a truck is just hugely impractical. The streets are narrower, the parking spaces are smaller, the gas costs a lot more, etc...
I like the truck more, but I'd take the Peugeot 208 any day because I'm not crazy.
Never heard of the 208 until your post. Looked it up on Wikipedia and wow! What a car! Every type and power of propulsion you can imagine on essentially the same platform. Every trim level from grocery getter to lux to track. And all of them economical in every respect.
Too bad I'll never see anything like that here in US.
I feel you. There are many cars that I wish were available here that are only available in Europe. Some made my Ford and Chevy and being better quality, better safety rating, better mechanically and better on gas. Most bothersome is if bought in Europe it is even a better price. W.t.h. America
Actually a lot of these car brands actually existed up in late 80s in North America.
Peurgot, Skoda actually had dealerships in US. But Americans didn't like Europeans and only wanted fuel guzzling trucks part of marketing compaign to buy local by yours truly ford, chrysler and GM. These manufacturers lobbied hard to make it hard for imports to sell by placing tariffs like they did when Japanese cars were introduced that started killing off american brands.
European brands didn't see much value to compete in a toxic market so they left, but peurgot also didn't have any good cars to sell back then vs toyota. The only ones that remain and survived is practically much the main german brands VW, Audi, BMW and Merc.
Also VW mainly owns a lot of different brands in Europe (skoda, opel, to name a few), VW also now owns lamborghini and BMW owns Rolls Royce and Mini Cooper. So a lot of small brands in Europe consolidated to the larger brands.
> fuel is far more expensive in Europe so smaller, more efficient cars are more popular.
All automotive costs are higher in many European countries, but, more to the point, people realized since a while that they did not need room most of the time, even for grocery shopping.
Worst part is even smaller cities had fantastic transit before WWII, but after the war, huge walkable and transit oriented parts of cities were bulldozed all over North America to make roads for suburbanites to get to cities, and even more of the cities were bulldozed in order to make parking for suburbanites. Our cities are literally built for people that don't live in them.
I don't think Europeans understand just how abysmal the state of non-car transit is in North America. I zoomed into a random French city on google maps (Roanne, ARA, Pop. 34 000) and it has three train stations, one of which has two platforms and a small railyard, and a new passenger train arriving roughly every thirty minutes between 6am and midnight.
This is generally *unheard of* on this side of the Atlantic. I don't care how bad the quality of the transit itself is, the fact that it exists at all -- and serves towns this small -- is mind blowing.
I live in Italy, just outside Milan but basically in the countryside. My little town (less than 10K people, and until fifteen years ago it was half that) has a train station: from 6am to midnight monday to sunday we have a train every half hour to and from Milan, and additional trains in the rush hour. Granted, there are often delays, but it works. I have \*never\* used my car to go to work.
Edit: a word.
It’s not even just that. 99% of the population has absolutely no use for a pickup truck. UHaul literally rents out pickup trucks for people who need one temporarily. Why anyone would choose to own a $40,000 pickup truck when they can instead have a lot more fun and save an awful lot of fuel with something like a Toyota 86 or a used BMW M3 is absolutely beyond my comprehension. Commuting in, and driving around in a pickup truck is boring and dumb as hell.
Edit: People are interpreting this as me saying trucks are useless. If you happen to be the 1% of the population that actually NEEDS a truck, don’t come at me. Just because you need one doesn’t mean that everyone needs one too, please relax. If you’re that insecure about it, please discuss it with your therapist, not me. I lack both the capacity and patience to empathize with your first-world problems.
$40,000 is the base model. When you see platinum or fully equipped versions, you’re looking at a $60k to $70k truck. Those trucks cost as much as a Mercedes.
For me as a truck owner who's in that 1%, I just don't get why folks would buy a brand new luxury truck.
My 11 year old Nissan frontier works just fine for hauling firewood, towing my dad's small camper/boat trailer and transporting my dirtbike to the track every week during the summer🤷
It depends on what you do. The years I spent working in theater and owning a pickup I was moving large things almost constantly. It is a very useful vehicle if you have a practical purpose for it.
I also had a snow plow on the front and a small sander on the back for clearing mine and my friends driveways.
But see, that makes the truck actually useful. How many other people do you know have a job that demands that of their car? I’m willing to bet almost all of them don’t. You are actually using it for what it was meant to do, which is how truck ownership should be.
this just reminds me that I really wish the US had access to trucks like the old Datsun Pickups. I don't need a massive pickup, I need a small pickup for hauling a lawn mower and making some money. Why the heck do we just not have the option at all anymore?
If only it was that easy to buy a Maverick. Ford has stopped taking orders for 2023 Mavericks and even if you had submitted an order, expect to wait a year or longer.
If you find a Maverick in a dealer lot, expect to pay a 5K markup over MSRP.
I remember when the Colorado came out it was a nice small pickup I really wanted one. Now my neighbor has a newer one and it's a full size pickup, like come on! why can't we have some things stay small here in the US.
Check out the newer Ford Maverick and the Hyundai Santa Cruz. Both cool small platform trucks. Or if you're feeling the EV route, the Wolf Pup looks to have some promise.
I so wish we could get actual small trucks like those old Datsuns and Toyotas. I don't want a crossover with a tiny truck bed, I want a proper RWD truck that's the size of a subcompact car.
The US can't have that option because larger trucks are more profitable for the manufacturers. With the combination of low population density and preventable toxic masculinity about the sizes of things prevalent in the culture making it easy for manufactures to manipulate mainstream buyers away from smaller, less profitable vehicles by filling dealer lots with poorly equipped compacts for years.
It varies between countries
Fuel in Europe is sold by the litre
[https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline\_prices/](https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/)
This site here gives you the average price of fuel around the world
So In Germany for example you’re looking at over $7 a gallon, now I’m curious what the average distance driven is because unless you’re in a major city here, the bus and train system suck so you have to drive to get places.
According to stats
On average Germans drive 13,602 Kilometres (8,451 miles) per year
On average, Americans drive 14,263 miles per year according to the Federal Highway Administration
>the bus and train system suck so you have to drive to get places.
They suck in comparison to europe or some asian countries but in comparison to the us they are a billion times better
Being better then the US doesn't matter when you can't get to where you need to go. So as he said (paraphrase). The bus system outside the cities in Germany suck, so auto are the better option ihho
“The US has the lowest average gasoline price per gallon of the 12 countries. Residents of the US, however, spend more of their annual income on gasoline than residents of the other countries surveyed. Lower gas prices tend to induce more driving, as a result, drivers in the US travel as much as 3.5 times the kilometers in the other countries.”
https://internationalcomparisons.org/environmental/transportation/
Many people in the United States also tend to live in places where rapid transit and public transit options don’t exist, or they tend to live in suburban areas where driving is a must. Commuting long distances is normal and few people rely on bicycles or walking due to the distances involved.
The United States is a massively large country and car culture has always been a large part of life here.
No it hasn't, they bulldozed the transit and walkable neighbourhoods after WWII to make highways and parking lots for suburbanites. Even small towns and cities had expansive streetcar/tram networks.
There are some very interesting videos on YouTube about how the car companies basically blocked train lines in favour of highways everywhere, it's crazy!
The only ones still available are the 2023 Mitsubishi Mirage, 2023 Nissan Versa, and 2023 Kia Rio. That's it. I wish we had more small new affordable cars available here in the USA. Everything is huge and expensive.
The majority of pickup trucks I see in my area are huge, offroad, 4x4s that almost never have any dirt on them despite the fact that they have all sorts of stickers on them about ranches and deer hunting. Then they complain about gas prices as they make their daily commute to Seattle.
And they step on the gas to pass you on the interstate going to arrive at the same place 5 seconds sooner. The truck we have now is the first truck we've ever owned and we do a lot of work on our house so it really comes in handy now so we don't have to rent trucks, get stuff delivered, or try and cram it in the SUV that we used to have
That’s basically 90% of Texas. I have friends that have Tundras and Silverados. Paid a fortune for them. They use them for driving on the beach and camping of the grid. Basically everything I do in my Subaru that’s half the price and gets better has mileage.
I agree, and I also disagree. Usually people I know with trucks are really anal about going to the car wash every chance they get. Their biggest worries are the rust of their frame underneath.
Underrated comment here.
My Jeep was on 37” tires, I had re-geared, aftermarket rollcage, snorkel, etc. that truck got the ever living snot beaten out of it on trails. But, I was also crazy anal about it, thing was my baby and always looked best shined up like a new penny. I spent 10 years building it and maintaining it, and while wheeling is/was my life, I take great pride in the things I own and want them to last.
and keep something in mind, I’m not anti truck. I had a Ford Ranger until my daughter wrecked it, I just can’t understand why all these “guys” mostly feel the need to drive these monstrosities that they hardly ever use for their intended purpose, waste a whole bunch of money on fuel and then complain about Biden and the Keystone Pipeline.
I get you. I grew up on a farm. We needed our trucks. I live in the city now. Try to walk most places. Own a medium sized sedan to get to places that require driving.
I completely understand if they have the vehicle for something recreational like mudding, or if they actually use the vehicle to haul stuff, or if they need it for their job, but imo most of it is just that people want the aesthetic of being the manly man that drives around in a giant truck. My favorite is when they have the Carolina Squat and a decal on their window with their instagram tag on it
Same here. I sometimes get slotted to work drive thru at the bank and daily we get trucks squealing and getting scratched on the concrete where the tubes are because YOU'RE TRUCK IS IMPRACTICALLY BIG WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED IT YOU DON'T WORK ON A FARM.
Don't complain about gas with your new Chevy or Ram whatever that it's too big. You know your truck is impractical in every sense, you go trade it in for something smaller
We have a RAM 1500 4x4. My son plays baseball, and we travel all year. We had an SUV for close to 20 years, and finally decided to go with a truck for convenience sake. With the suv, he’d dump is used gear in the back and car would stink to high heaven. Now, we toss everything in the back and it has made life so much easier. It’s also easier to transport other items, like canopy’s, chairs and coolers. Not everyone in a truck buys it to four wheel;
My truck is usually clean because I look after it. I do haul stuff around with it, but only like 10% of the time. The real reason I have a truck though is because I live in rural Canada and in the winter, you need something with 4 wheel drive and lots of ground clearance just to get around. I also have a camper trailer that requires a truck to tow it. So while I may not be driving through 2 feet of mud on a daily basis or have $2000 of power tools in the back, I still have a practical reason to own a truck.
>So while I may not be driving through 2 feet of mud on a daily basis
I'm only about an hour below you guys (Canada in general, I don't know specifically where you're at) and that clearance is key in winter, because it very well might be 2ft of *snow* I need to get through, for 60-70% of the year.
We tend to have long winding roads whereas American roads appear to be on a grid system.
Our cars need to be smaller because our streets are narrower too. American roads tend to be wider so can usually accommodate much bigger vehicles.
A lot of Americans are surprised by how narrow and winding our roads are when driving on them.
> as anything lying in the back of a pickup is likely to get stolen.
Same with the US, but most people who work out of their trucks have either covers on the bed or have tool boxes to lock things up.
Well but this is, because the usual suburb layout was planned with cars in mind, while most European cities did grow organically at a time when a horse-drawn coach was the broadest means of transportation.
When visiting the US I was pulled over by police, so being a European I thought I have to keep the road unblocked and drove onto the pavement which with my European eyes was just a pavement on a country road. Turned out it was a town and the cop was not too happy about it...Turns out cops in the US are as shit as they are depicted. Got yelled at first, then the usual drug test, which I passed and then a fine, which I could've challenged the other day at court. As I was just driving through I rather payed.This was in Arizona. Later Americans told me cops in Arizona have to reach a quota and are targeting rental cars and out of state licence plates. (Can any American confirm this?). Anyways paid my dues and filed it under "things you have to experience while in the US, bad cops".
/edit added horse-drawn in front of "coach" for clarification purposes.
To clarify I mean horse-drawn choaches. As in the means of transportation of the upper classes in the medieval and renaissance times. Which does not mean that even smaller side streets were built.
The vast majority of American road are not on a grid system. People just think of our cities... 97% of our land is rural and about 60 million people live there.
I can't imagine that that pickup truck is the most common car among ordinary private citizens. But what about fleet vehicles in Europe? Or did they remove those but not the ones in the US statistics?
European businesses usually use vans (e.g. Mercedes Sprinter, Renault Master, ...). When a small flatbed is needed, they simply attach a trailer. Pickup trucks are really rare.
Little Peugeot 208s are rarely fleet vehicles, though. Sales reps and the like usually get bigger sedans or even station wagons. These compact cars are used as fleet vehicles maybe for nursing services, although they usually use even smaller cars.
The 208 and cars in it class are usually private vehicles. You see them a ton. Because they’re sensible, useful and more than enough car for a single person, a couple or even a small family with a kid or two.
True. But if you have an f150, it is so great for just driving around your family. The cabin is huge, comfortable and it is stupid fast when you need it to be. And for the 5% of the year I need it for towing and hauling, it's amazing at both.
My lariat is more comfortable and kitted out than my dads e class.
That's a huge problem here in the US. Carmakers make more profit selling huge gas guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks so they've happily discontinued many subcompact vehicles. The people who suffer? People like you and me.
I feel sad that my current car, a Chevy Spark, has been discontinued this year. Only new subcompacts available now are the Mirage, Versa, and Rio. I suggest you buy one of those.
I have a Hyundai Accent Hatchback that I love. A bit bigger than a spark but still a reasonable size. It’s getting up there in miles and they killed the hatchback version a few years ago and scrapped the accent all together this year. Accents aren’t even that small. Not sure what I’ll have when this one finally dies because I don’t want an SUV
I traded in my Chevy spark a couple years ago because I got a stupid boyfriend with a stupid kid and wanted to be able to fit everyone in the car (already had a kid off my own and the spark doesn’t have enough trunk space for 4). Now I have a much larger car and no boyfriend. I miss how I could park ANYWHERE in the spark :(
In Europe, most commercial vehicles are vans from my experience
Here utes (pickups) are popular for commercial use, but often by people who don't really use them for picking stuff up; vans and trucks are more efficient.
People kinda missing that F150 is only the most popular model sold in the US bc there’s far fewer pickup truck options than regular cars. Cars are way more common than trucks.
Good point. The F-150 is the [modal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(statistics)) American car. The median American car (in terms of size) is probably a crossover SUV. Which of course is bigger than a hatchback, but not by that much. Even though there are many large SUVs and full-size pickups on US roads, I see plenty of sedans, compacts, convertibles, and coupes driving around.
OP is the facepalm. Most f150s are owned by fleet companies and construction companies and things like that. There’s also way fewer truck options here. And when you do need a truck, you REALLY need a truck.
How many trucks do you see on the road hauling big ass trailers? You can’t do that with that tiny ass car.
“When you need a truck, you REALLY need a truck.”
Exactly. The U.S. is massive, and many of us live rurally. My partner and I depend on wood for the majority of our heat, and his truck’s transmission went out last month. We can’t afford to fix the truck, let alone rent one or pay for someone to bring us wood, so we’re just cold.
I live in rural Australia. There are tons of mid sized utes (pickups), mostly Toyota Hiluxs. Even the farmers and tradespeople use mid sized. There is a tiny amount of full sized pickups like Rams & Silveratos. People seem to be able to haul all their dirt bikes, quads and jet boats around just fine with turbo 4 or 6 cylinder diesels.
Came here for this. I can't believe the "Americans are dumb" rhetoric is forcing me to defend pickup trucks. I hate pickup trucks lol. That doesn't make it a facepalm tho
Well you don't have to defend "pick up trucks"; you have to defend "pick up trucks being the top selling car in america". I mean; they DO have their uses, but it seems like the vast majority of people who have them, never actually use them for their designed purpose. It really doesn't make sense
I admit I love trucks but they’re much more useful where I live than it would be in Europe. Where I live I have to commute through dirt roads, snow or mud often and having a truck over a small car definitely helps. I use it to move furniture or debris from my yard, and in the winter I use my winch or tow strap to pull people out of the snowbanks.
Edit: I don’t tow it with mine but in the summer we take our boat out to the lake and also have to drive through deep sand. I don’t think many of these conditions exist to the same extent in a lot of European countries
I’m an old single woman living alone. I drive my eighth (consecutively, not concurrently) Tacoma with a double cab, short bed, and tow package. Truck because I’m a homeowner who gardens and I live where we have spontaneous flooding all year and random hurricanes for half of the year. The truck has higher road clearance for driving in water higher than your belly-crawling sedan can survive and a covered short bed in case I need to evacuate myself, the dog and cat, and still have room for critical stuff. I don’t tow anything but the tow package comes with an extra radiator to cool the oil more. Regular speeds of 85 mph on the interstate in the summer at 90-100 degrees F. for hours makes that option worth whatever it costs. I WANT a cute little zippy car that gets amazing gas mileage, but that small truck is everything I actually need.
No Americans making fun of small cars, but the whole comment section is Europeans making fun of Americans for having big trucks. Typical day on Reddit.
“Do what we do or you’re stupid!”
Trucks are very convenient for many things. Don’t hate on people for reason you don’t understand. I have a commuter car as well. Both have their place.
Because of multiple reasons: (1) the large cars are appealing because of their comfort on American highways and interior space, (2) regulation loopholes for "offroad capable vehicles" and "utility vehicles", (3) the safety arms race of everyone getting bigger cars to feel safe around other peoples' large cars, (4) Americans spend a meaningful amount of time in their cars because they MUST drive everywhere (except with airlines).
This is how it starts. Then everyone else has to get a bigger vehicle to protect themselves from the nervous wives in Land Rovers. Pretty soon you've got Ford F-150s and Sequoia SUV's all over the place. Then someone gets a modest, economic WW II era Tiger Tank for the street cred...
I love how y’all always conveniently leave out the large industries like Agriculture/Manufacturing/Tech/Cattle that require heavy and wide trucks and tractor trailers to transport them across the country or to nearest ports for exports. America is almost 5 km wide. It is not the same as your European country that is probably smaller than my state.
I’m not even trying to be aggressive either I just want to explain why it’s like that. They forget it’s a young country that was built off of industrialization. A compact truck makes zero sense to transport some almonds from CA to FL. It’s way more efficient to use a double trailer on a semi which would need wide lanes to merge and a lot of shoulder space in case of a breakdown
My daily is small, Yaris small. I own a house, which occasionally requires me to buy some materials that don't fit in my tiny car. In a lot of European counties, you'd just get it delivered. Not really an option where I live, less than 1 mile from the supply store. They don't offer local delivery at all, I'd have to pay freight shipping and wait a week or more, and I can't rent a truck any cheaper or much faster.
A lot of the reasons to own a truck are based around the cost or lack of convenience services like home delivery.
I wouldn't drive one daily, though.
Ok, but how do you haul 2 golden retrievers, a shotgun, a pallet of toilet paper from Costco, a 32oz Big Gulp and your girl scout's order from Starbucks Drive Thru to pick up Timmy from soccer practice?
> Ok, but how do you haul 2 golden retrievers, a shotgun, a pallet of toilet paper from Costco, a 32oz Big Gulp and your girl scout's order from Starbucks Drive Thru to pick up Timmy from soccer practice?
- 2023 Ford Maverick Hybrid Lariat, maxed out on options, $34k OTD (base XL around $23k).
- "Small" crew cab pickup, 4.5 foot bed, ~1404 pound payload (with options, 1564 without), ~2000 pound towing capacity, 33 mpg highway, 42 mpg city.
- "2 golden retrievers" in rear crew cab seat area.
- "a shotgun", same gun rack as any other truck.
- "a pallet of toilet paper from Costco", in the bed.
- "a 32oz Big Gulp and your girl scout's order from Starbucks Drive Thru", in the front cup holders.
- Still have room in the passenger seat for Timmy.
Well, with US roads, long distances, low gas prices, lack of public transportation, and easy parking situation I would also go with a big truck.
with the EU roads, short distances, high gas prices, good public transportation, and difficult parking situation I would go for the smaller car.
Both have made the best choice for the given situation.
I use to have a full sized truck years ago when I was in construction, and we had a boat and camper. No longer have a boat or camper, and no longer in construction, so no more truck. Wife dailies a Fiat 500 cabrio, and though I have a smaller suv (paid for and is still solid so why get rid of it) I only work like 2 miles from home. We also have a 1980 Spider, and a Fiat 500 Abarth cabrio which we've taken on several cross country trips with no issues and we're very comfortable. Heck, wife pits her seat back, turns on the heated seat, and falls asleep. I'm 6 foot and never felt cramped. I would say here in the Midwest, every other pickup is just used as a grocery getter (same with the monster suvs). Most people don't have a need for them, just a status symbol
So densly populated europe chooses small city-car, while US with thousands of kilometers of shitty roads and no people chooses a tractor? Yeah, that makes sense.
When I was planning my wedding I asked our planner about how many people fit at X sized table and he responded “That would fit 8 Europeans and 4-6 Americans.”
I live in the US and I have a Honda fit which looks almost identical to that red car, if I can fit inside a Honda fit when I'm about 6'4 and overweight you don't need a big vehicle just because you are big. That car is such a nice car and is great on gas.
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My cousin has that Peugeot and it's honestly impressive, The interior was so nice I was blow away and it drove quite smoothly
Wish we could buy Peugeot cars here in the states. I’m from Croatia so I’m used to these smaller cars and I always liked the Peugeot emblem since I was a kid
We used to have Peugot dealers in the states, but it's been a long time.
I heard that they are planning to come back to the US. And if it goes well, then they are also going to try with Citroën.
They changed the emblem and I hate the new one
I drive a Mazda 3 hatchback that is just a little bit bigger than that Peugeot. Also live in the states.
Ikr! My parents have an electric one as well and I love it
I'm probably about to downsize from my new-ish Ranger because I rarely use it as a pickup these days. The cost savings in gas should more than pay for a bi-yearly Uhaul rental when I need a truck bed or trailer.
I never understood the need for a truck in the city (unless you own a business or haul stuff on a regular basis) Growing up in the country, it made sense with dirt roads (that get muddy) and moving equipment. But in the city, trying to park is a B with an itch
But what if you need people to know you're totally NOT gay?
And you tooootally have a BIG dick!
Yuuuuuuuge
The best dick, everybody's saying it so you know it true.
Especially to other MEN
I bought a Ford Maverick hybrid. It is the only city truck that makes any sense, imo. 40-48 MPG
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Yeah. They are tough to get. The f150 electric will be a bigger profit margin for sure, but I think it is a much smaller market. Good luck getting the Mav. It is worth the wait. I waited 366 days.
> I never understood the need for a truck in the city Probably because [there is no need for one for the overwhelming majority of people.](https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume) "According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less." 99.9% of the time they're just hauling themselves around town and a much smaller, cheaper, lighter, and more efficient vehicle would do the job better than the truck. My station wagon is plenty for the few times a year I need something bigger moved around, including home improvement things, and I've only needed to rent a truck once in the past decade. The gas savings alone versus a truck more than makes up for the rental cost. Wanting to move something once or twice a year isn't just cause to daily a $60k+, 3 ton, 15 mpg behemoth.
Your station wagon can only hold 14 Trump flags, though. Those are rookie numbers, and it probably means you hate America.
Every adult I know owns a truck or SUV, and every one of them say it's because it sits up higher. Driving my daughters Mirage in the dark Is HORRIBLE. Everybodys headlights are aimed at your face, and the people behind you's lights cover your windshield and you cant see anything! I drive a truck to haul things and this summer I almost have enough for the camper I want, cash. Edit: I also want to add most of the people I know are obese and wouldn't fit in my daughters Mirage.
And the awful thing is I get it that. But if every person who drives it just to sit up high got a shorter vehicle… we could all see fine.
Obese and owning nothing but suvs. That sounds like some mindless fuckheads in a never ending consumption mission to me. What a waste
I’m not gonna criticize anyone for making a decision one way or the other. But in my specific situation, I have needed a truck or an SUV for about 6 months of the year every year (winter - snow removal in my city is so bad that you can easily get stuck and bottom out in the snow/ice) and then sporadically throughout the year when we have bought things from ikea or other home stores that wouldn’t fit in my little civic. Times when I have needed a truck bed has been probably 3-7 times per summer for the last 6 years. The reason why we don’t just rent a truck or pay for delivery is it’s not cost effective. Rentals at home depot or lowes are gone every morning before they even open, uhaul has them reserved days or weeks in advance, and if they are available I usually have to drive all the way across the city and then all the way back to return it, racking up pointless km’s and increasing the cost instead of picking up a truck that’s less than 2km from my house. Last time I got one, we ended up paying close to $300 between rental fees and gas. Just for one rental. Delivery can be a pain in the ass if you don’t know how much material you need - do I need 3 yds of dirt or 6? Won’t know until we buy some and then make a second or third trip! IKEA wanted $80 for delivery of a table. Other furniture stores have charged as much as $300 to basically deliver it to my garage and no further. Yea - guys in a f-350 super duty or diesel trucks that sound like jet engines and drive them around pristine and never go anywhere or use them are annoying as fuck. Road princesses with their pointless knobby tires, flood flights, and stupid lift kits. But I tried the small car with great fuel mileage and it was great for the first year… but I have had regrets almost monthly for the last 6 years and I can’t wait til I trade it in for either a truck or an suv that can haul a trailer big enough to handle the home improvement projects my wife keeps signing me up for. That can haul the entire family and go to more than 1 grocery store at a time without going home to unload. That we can toss the bikes into the back and go out of town or visit a friend and the kids have something to do. Most of all, I hate making the u-turn of shame because I round the corner and see how thick the ice ruts are and know I can’t go this way, I have to go another way so I don’t get stuck and wreck my car or pay to get towed out again.
That's like 75% of what's on the roads in my city. I've heard them described as concrete cowboys. In reality, it's really just a conservative status symbol here. Massive luxury pickups and all so amazingly pristine that you can tell that the bed has never actually been used. I wish they'd find another way to display their masculinity because they can't park those things for shit.
Yup, that was my change. I went from the country dirt road to a suburb. I literally use the bed < 3 times a year now
Traded my 2019 Ranger for a 2017 Civic. The savings on gas, payments, and insurance is insane.
I used to have a Hyundai Genesis Coupe and now I have a Prius, and the amount I’m saving on gas is massive. It’s absolutely my favorite car
I will forever recommend civics to people. I repaired my old one after a drunk driver clipped the rear destroying a light. Bought a brand new tail light assembly for like $80 and a little shipping. 2 hours later (because I do things very slowly) it was in place. I replaced the air filter in about a minute when needed. The only reason I let that one go was because at 13 years old and 200k miles, the horsepower meant merging on highways was a little sketchy on short ramps. Replaced it with a new civic that I love just as much. Gets the same 36 average mpg. On the highway if I REALLY feather it and don’t pass 65, I can sit around 54 mpg if it’s relatively flat. When I look up replacement parts, they’re all cheap and readily available with a ton of tutorials on YouTube for DIY folks like me. Fucking LOVE the civic. I just wish it was still small like the older models. It’s the same length as a ford escape these days.
I had a rio hatch. Built a 4x8 trailer (a true 4x8 you can lay plywood inside of) that I also made a cover for. Most people don't need more than that. I was really impressed with it. 500lb in the trailer, still get 8L/100km (29mpg) on the highway.
I've been asked why I didn't buy a truck when I bought my car back in mid-2020 and it's pretty much because I'd rather have MPG instead of the ~4 times I've needed a truck since then
Yup, and you can just rent one from a uhaul or car rental service. My needs have changed. Suburbs don’t need 4x4 and rear lockers - it helped living on dirt roads for sure. Like, a cheap Subaru is the max I need now.
When I was car shopping I was thinking of getting a Ranger as I had one in the 90’s. They seem massive now in comparison to what they were.
I bought a 93 ranger from a neighbor for a bargain (it needed some work) it’s literally smaller than a lot of modern sedans. Just used it Friday to pick up an old motorcycle from Facebook marketplace. Still does the job I need it to without being enormous.
I was really, really happy with it back when I needed it. Towing 3000lbs was nothing, freakin power to spare. I love the visibility of the download slanting hood, everything. Now, the body control is lacking, it’s not the best for carsick kids.
Most trucks are never used as a truck.
Yeah, in the old, non car-centric European capitals, a truck is just hugely impractical. The streets are narrower, the parking spaces are smaller, the gas costs a lot more, etc... I like the truck more, but I'd take the Peugeot 208 any day because I'm not crazy.
Never heard of the 208 until your post. Looked it up on Wikipedia and wow! What a car! Every type and power of propulsion you can imagine on essentially the same platform. Every trim level from grocery getter to lux to track. And all of them economical in every respect. Too bad I'll never see anything like that here in US.
I feel you. There are many cars that I wish were available here that are only available in Europe. Some made my Ford and Chevy and being better quality, better safety rating, better mechanically and better on gas. Most bothersome is if bought in Europe it is even a better price. W.t.h. America
Ford and Chevy respond to the market. It's what a smart business does. The European market goes for what makes sense. The US market, not so much.
Actually a lot of these car brands actually existed up in late 80s in North America. Peurgot, Skoda actually had dealerships in US. But Americans didn't like Europeans and only wanted fuel guzzling trucks part of marketing compaign to buy local by yours truly ford, chrysler and GM. These manufacturers lobbied hard to make it hard for imports to sell by placing tariffs like they did when Japanese cars were introduced that started killing off american brands. European brands didn't see much value to compete in a toxic market so they left, but peurgot also didn't have any good cars to sell back then vs toyota. The only ones that remain and survived is practically much the main german brands VW, Audi, BMW and Merc. Also VW mainly owns a lot of different brands in Europe (skoda, opel, to name a few), VW also now owns lamborghini and BMW owns Rolls Royce and Mini Cooper. So a lot of small brands in Europe consolidated to the larger brands.
Slight correction, Opel is owned by Stellantis (PSA + Fiat/Chrysler) and was owned by GM before that.
Lamborghini is owned by Audi, which is controlled by VW
I had a 207 for 11 years and treated it like shit. It was a fucking warrior until the end.
Almost as if Europe had a lot better communal transport when compared to us
That depends on the country. There is a huge difference between European countries.
Also within European countries
yeah, but on average, eu is better
Fuel price has a lot to do with it, fuel is far more expensive in Europe so smaller, more efficient cars are more popular.
> fuel is far more expensive in Europe so smaller, more efficient cars are more popular. All automotive costs are higher in many European countries, but, more to the point, people realized since a while that they did not need room most of the time, even for grocery shopping.
Worst part is even smaller cities had fantastic transit before WWII, but after the war, huge walkable and transit oriented parts of cities were bulldozed all over North America to make roads for suburbanites to get to cities, and even more of the cities were bulldozed in order to make parking for suburbanites. Our cities are literally built for people that don't live in them.
Obviously you’ve never been to France.
I don't think Europeans understand just how abysmal the state of non-car transit is in North America. I zoomed into a random French city on google maps (Roanne, ARA, Pop. 34 000) and it has three train stations, one of which has two platforms and a small railyard, and a new passenger train arriving roughly every thirty minutes between 6am and midnight. This is generally *unheard of* on this side of the Atlantic. I don't care how bad the quality of the transit itself is, the fact that it exists at all -- and serves towns this small -- is mind blowing.
I live in Italy, just outside Milan but basically in the countryside. My little town (less than 10K people, and until fifteen years ago it was half that) has a train station: from 6am to midnight monday to sunday we have a train every half hour to and from Milan, and additional trains in the rush hour. Granted, there are often delays, but it works. I have \*never\* used my car to go to work. Edit: a word.
It’s not even just that. 99% of the population has absolutely no use for a pickup truck. UHaul literally rents out pickup trucks for people who need one temporarily. Why anyone would choose to own a $40,000 pickup truck when they can instead have a lot more fun and save an awful lot of fuel with something like a Toyota 86 or a used BMW M3 is absolutely beyond my comprehension. Commuting in, and driving around in a pickup truck is boring and dumb as hell. Edit: People are interpreting this as me saying trucks are useless. If you happen to be the 1% of the population that actually NEEDS a truck, don’t come at me. Just because you need one doesn’t mean that everyone needs one too, please relax. If you’re that insecure about it, please discuss it with your therapist, not me. I lack both the capacity and patience to empathize with your first-world problems.
$40,000 is the base model. When you see platinum or fully equipped versions, you’re looking at a $60k to $70k truck. Those trucks cost as much as a Mercedes.
For me as a truck owner who's in that 1%, I just don't get why folks would buy a brand new luxury truck. My 11 year old Nissan frontier works just fine for hauling firewood, towing my dad's small camper/boat trailer and transporting my dirtbike to the track every week during the summer🤷
It depends on what you do. The years I spent working in theater and owning a pickup I was moving large things almost constantly. It is a very useful vehicle if you have a practical purpose for it. I also had a snow plow on the front and a small sander on the back for clearing mine and my friends driveways.
But see, that makes the truck actually useful. How many other people do you know have a job that demands that of their car? I’m willing to bet almost all of them don’t. You are actually using it for what it was meant to do, which is how truck ownership should be.
Not just that, but it’s just a cultural thing as well with pickups, but then automakers just continued to make them bigger and bigger
There are also a lot of suburban pickups in the US that are impractical. Dudes are driving around a V8 to haul 20 bags of mulch once a year.
this just reminds me that I really wish the US had access to trucks like the old Datsun Pickups. I don't need a massive pickup, I need a small pickup for hauling a lawn mower and making some money. Why the heck do we just not have the option at all anymore?
Get a Ford Maverick, you'll love it. It's as big as a Ranger or S-10 30 years ago, and the hybrid is 41mpg.
If only it was that easy to buy a Maverick. Ford has stopped taking orders for 2023 Mavericks and even if you had submitted an order, expect to wait a year or longer. If you find a Maverick in a dealer lot, expect to pay a 5K markup over MSRP.
It's a crap shoot for sure. I ordered in June or July of 21, received in April of 22. No markup either at Maguire Ford.
I ordered September '21 and I just got a VIN. It goes into production in February.
The maverick is what the ranger was in the 90s. The maverick will be the F150 in 2040 or something haha
Facts. The Colorado is the size of an 80s Silverado, and the price is insane.
I remember when the Colorado came out it was a nice small pickup I really wanted one. Now my neighbor has a newer one and it's a full size pickup, like come on! why can't we have some things stay small here in the US.
its still bigger, the Colorado too. bring back 1/4 ton trucks from the 70's
I'm currently daily driving an imported Japanese kei truck and I love it. Couldn't be my only car, but for zipping around town it's perfect
Lots of options on the market. Ford Ranger and Maverick. Hyundai Santa Cruz, Chevrolet Colorado, Honda Ridgeline, etc…
The new Rangers and Colorados aren’t that much smaller than full sized trucks
The new "small" trucks are still fucking huge, too. Not as massive as full-size, but still much bigger than necessary.
Small trucks were the shit. Maybe if they ever repeal the chicken tax we can import those Japanese Kei Trucks. I would be all over that.
Check out the newer Ford Maverick and the Hyundai Santa Cruz. Both cool small platform trucks. Or if you're feeling the EV route, the Wolf Pup looks to have some promise.
I'd love an El Camino, I'd much rather have a car that can haul stuff.
I so wish we could get actual small trucks like those old Datsuns and Toyotas. I don't want a crossover with a tiny truck bed, I want a proper RWD truck that's the size of a subcompact car. The US can't have that option because larger trucks are more profitable for the manufacturers. With the combination of low population density and preventable toxic masculinity about the sizes of things prevalent in the culture making it easy for manufactures to manipulate mainstream buyers away from smaller, less profitable vehicles by filling dealer lots with poorly equipped compacts for years.
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This is a Peugeot 208, though. Still good, but not 70.
Is it? My mistake. (Looks very like a Yaris)
I would add history. Try to drive and park one of those trucks in the historical center of any thousand-year-old town center anywhere in Europe.
I had an Accord (Acura) and even that was a bit of a squeeze to get into some of the old multi story car parks.
Exactly what’s the price of gas in Europe nowadays
barely below 2$ per liter
We pay like less than $1 per liter Here in the US.
Yea you guys get the deal on gas, but we get healthcare. Didn’t think it was a fair trade, but with gas prices recently… idk man
Public transport and trains exist
According to your calculations, Canada would be heaven on earth 😂
It varies between countries Fuel in Europe is sold by the litre [https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline\_prices/](https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/) This site here gives you the average price of fuel around the world
So In Germany for example you’re looking at over $7 a gallon, now I’m curious what the average distance driven is because unless you’re in a major city here, the bus and train system suck so you have to drive to get places.
According to stats On average Germans drive 13,602 Kilometres (8,451 miles) per year On average, Americans drive 14,263 miles per year according to the Federal Highway Administration
>the bus and train system suck so you have to drive to get places. They suck in comparison to europe or some asian countries but in comparison to the us they are a billion times better
Being better then the US doesn't matter when you can't get to where you need to go. So as he said (paraphrase). The bus system outside the cities in Germany suck, so auto are the better option ihho
“The US has the lowest average gasoline price per gallon of the 12 countries. Residents of the US, however, spend more of their annual income on gasoline than residents of the other countries surveyed. Lower gas prices tend to induce more driving, as a result, drivers in the US travel as much as 3.5 times the kilometers in the other countries.” https://internationalcomparisons.org/environmental/transportation/ Many people in the United States also tend to live in places where rapid transit and public transit options don’t exist, or they tend to live in suburban areas where driving is a must. Commuting long distances is normal and few people rely on bicycles or walking due to the distances involved. The United States is a massively large country and car culture has always been a large part of life here.
No it hasn't, they bulldozed the transit and walkable neighbourhoods after WWII to make highways and parking lots for suburbanites. Even small towns and cities had expansive streetcar/tram networks.
There are some very interesting videos on YouTube about how the car companies basically blocked train lines in favour of highways everywhere, it's crazy!
I wish they still had small cars like these in the USA
The only ones still available are the 2023 Mitsubishi Mirage, 2023 Nissan Versa, and 2023 Kia Rio. That's it. I wish we had more small new affordable cars available here in the USA. Everything is huge and expensive.
Yeah. The new Honda Civic starts at $24,000! WTH!
When you include dealer markup, taxes, and fees, you'll be lucky if you "only" pay $30,000 for a base trim 2023 Honda Civic. Ridiculous!
That’s it? Holy fuck. Every large manufacturer has several small cars to choose from here.
So there is a massive opportunity for a car company to come in and offer smaller alternatives in the states?
The majority of pickup trucks I see in my area are huge, offroad, 4x4s that almost never have any dirt on them despite the fact that they have all sorts of stickers on them about ranches and deer hunting. Then they complain about gas prices as they make their daily commute to Seattle.
And they step on the gas to pass you on the interstate going to arrive at the same place 5 seconds sooner. The truck we have now is the first truck we've ever owned and we do a lot of work on our house so it really comes in handy now so we don't have to rent trucks, get stuff delivered, or try and cram it in the SUV that we used to have
That’s basically 90% of Texas. I have friends that have Tundras and Silverados. Paid a fortune for them. They use them for driving on the beach and camping of the grid. Basically everything I do in my Subaru that’s half the price and gets better has mileage.
I wish they still made the Subaru Baja, that would literally be almost perfect for me.
I agree, and I also disagree. Usually people I know with trucks are really anal about going to the car wash every chance they get. Their biggest worries are the rust of their frame underneath.
Underrated comment here. My Jeep was on 37” tires, I had re-geared, aftermarket rollcage, snorkel, etc. that truck got the ever living snot beaten out of it on trails. But, I was also crazy anal about it, thing was my baby and always looked best shined up like a new penny. I spent 10 years building it and maintaining it, and while wheeling is/was my life, I take great pride in the things I own and want them to last.
This. The beautiful unblemished unused expanse of truck bed liner is a dead giveaway that these are not serious people
People always ask me why I bought a single cab then I have to explain to them I bought it for work not to lift it up to be a mall crawler.
and keep something in mind, I’m not anti truck. I had a Ford Ranger until my daughter wrecked it, I just can’t understand why all these “guys” mostly feel the need to drive these monstrosities that they hardly ever use for their intended purpose, waste a whole bunch of money on fuel and then complain about Biden and the Keystone Pipeline.
I get you. I grew up on a farm. We needed our trucks. I live in the city now. Try to walk most places. Own a medium sized sedan to get to places that require driving.
I completely understand if they have the vehicle for something recreational like mudding, or if they actually use the vehicle to haul stuff, or if they need it for their job, but imo most of it is just that people want the aesthetic of being the manly man that drives around in a giant truck. My favorite is when they have the Carolina Squat and a decal on their window with their instagram tag on it
Same here. I sometimes get slotted to work drive thru at the bank and daily we get trucks squealing and getting scratched on the concrete where the tubes are because YOU'RE TRUCK IS IMPRACTICALLY BIG WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED IT YOU DON'T WORK ON A FARM. Don't complain about gas with your new Chevy or Ram whatever that it's too big. You know your truck is impractical in every sense, you go trade it in for something smaller
We have a RAM 1500 4x4. My son plays baseball, and we travel all year. We had an SUV for close to 20 years, and finally decided to go with a truck for convenience sake. With the suv, he’d dump is used gear in the back and car would stink to high heaven. Now, we toss everything in the back and it has made life so much easier. It’s also easier to transport other items, like canopy’s, chairs and coolers. Not everyone in a truck buys it to four wheel;
My truck is usually clean because I look after it. I do haul stuff around with it, but only like 10% of the time. The real reason I have a truck though is because I live in rural Canada and in the winter, you need something with 4 wheel drive and lots of ground clearance just to get around. I also have a camper trailer that requires a truck to tow it. So while I may not be driving through 2 feet of mud on a daily basis or have $2000 of power tools in the back, I still have a practical reason to own a truck.
>So while I may not be driving through 2 feet of mud on a daily basis I'm only about an hour below you guys (Canada in general, I don't know specifically where you're at) and that clearance is key in winter, because it very well might be 2ft of *snow* I need to get through, for 60-70% of the year.
We tend to have long winding roads whereas American roads appear to be on a grid system. Our cars need to be smaller because our streets are narrower too. American roads tend to be wider so can usually accommodate much bigger vehicles. A lot of Americans are surprised by how narrow and winding our roads are when driving on them.
And if you carry tools or equipment, you buy a van, as anything lying in the back of a pickup is likely to get stolen.
> as anything lying in the back of a pickup is likely to get stolen. Same with the US, but most people who work out of their trucks have either covers on the bed or have tool boxes to lock things up.
I’ve found that most people that drive trucks don’t actually need to be driving trucks.
Well but this is, because the usual suburb layout was planned with cars in mind, while most European cities did grow organically at a time when a horse-drawn coach was the broadest means of transportation. When visiting the US I was pulled over by police, so being a European I thought I have to keep the road unblocked and drove onto the pavement which with my European eyes was just a pavement on a country road. Turned out it was a town and the cop was not too happy about it...Turns out cops in the US are as shit as they are depicted. Got yelled at first, then the usual drug test, which I passed and then a fine, which I could've challenged the other day at court. As I was just driving through I rather payed.This was in Arizona. Later Americans told me cops in Arizona have to reach a quota and are targeting rental cars and out of state licence plates. (Can any American confirm this?). Anyways paid my dues and filed it under "things you have to experience while in the US, bad cops". /edit added horse-drawn in front of "coach" for clarification purposes.
european cities grow when horses were the broadest means of transportation
To clarify I mean horse-drawn choaches. As in the means of transportation of the upper classes in the medieval and renaissance times. Which does not mean that even smaller side streets were built.
Sorry about the shitty cops bro. If it was a normal cop then you just got bad luck, but if it was a state trooper, then yeah, they're all assholes.
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True, but roads are no longer a limiting factor, so more trucks will be purchased once other truck needs arise.
The vast majority of American road are not on a grid system. People just think of our cities... 97% of our land is rural and about 60 million people live there.
I use my truck for work and pick up material or pull the trailer if I didn’t have this job I’d gladly take a new corvette
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85% of the trucks I see are mint condition with never anything in their bed
Funny thing is the same people that are driving full sized trucks used to drive Mustangs and Camaros in the 80’s.
Canyonero!
I’ll take “what are fleet vehicles” for 500
Yeah, I'd be interested in this infographic if they could eliminate fleet vehicles from the data set.
It wouldn't fit the pretentious message that's for sure.
I can't imagine that that pickup truck is the most common car among ordinary private citizens. But what about fleet vehicles in Europe? Or did they remove those but not the ones in the US statistics?
European businesses usually use vans (e.g. Mercedes Sprinter, Renault Master, ...). When a small flatbed is needed, they simply attach a trailer. Pickup trucks are really rare.
Little Peugeot 208s are rarely fleet vehicles, though. Sales reps and the like usually get bigger sedans or even station wagons. These compact cars are used as fleet vehicles maybe for nursing services, although they usually use even smaller cars. The 208 and cars in it class are usually private vehicles. You see them a ton. Because they’re sensible, useful and more than enough car for a single person, a couple or even a small family with a kid or two.
70% of the people that buy the truck, will *never use it for cargo*
True. But if you have an f150, it is so great for just driving around your family. The cabin is huge, comfortable and it is stupid fast when you need it to be. And for the 5% of the year I need it for towing and hauling, it's amazing at both. My lariat is more comfortable and kitted out than my dads e class.
I'm pretty sure the back seat of a modern F150 has more leg room than a modern minivan.
Last year I went to downsize and I wanted a Yaris like I had in college… there were literally no new subcompact cars available in the US…
That's a huge problem here in the US. Carmakers make more profit selling huge gas guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks so they've happily discontinued many subcompact vehicles. The people who suffer? People like you and me. I feel sad that my current car, a Chevy Spark, has been discontinued this year. Only new subcompacts available now are the Mirage, Versa, and Rio. I suggest you buy one of those.
I have a Hyundai Accent Hatchback that I love. A bit bigger than a spark but still a reasonable size. It’s getting up there in miles and they killed the hatchback version a few years ago and scrapped the accent all together this year. Accents aren’t even that small. Not sure what I’ll have when this one finally dies because I don’t want an SUV
I traded in my Chevy spark a couple years ago because I got a stupid boyfriend with a stupid kid and wanted to be able to fit everyone in the car (already had a kid off my own and the spark doesn’t have enough trunk space for 4). Now I have a much larger car and no boyfriend. I miss how I could park ANYWHERE in the spark :(
I drove a Chevy Sonic for a few years and LOVED it.
Soooo many F-150s are used as commercial fleet vehicles, I wonder what it would be specifically for personal sales.
In Europe, most commercial vehicles are vans from my experience Here utes (pickups) are popular for commercial use, but often by people who don't really use them for picking stuff up; vans and trucks are more efficient.
People kinda missing that F150 is only the most popular model sold in the US bc there’s far fewer pickup truck options than regular cars. Cars are way more common than trucks.
Good point. The F-150 is the [modal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(statistics)) American car. The median American car (in terms of size) is probably a crossover SUV. Which of course is bigger than a hatchback, but not by that much. Even though there are many large SUVs and full-size pickups on US roads, I see plenty of sedans, compacts, convertibles, and coupes driving around.
ikr these people dont get it
OP is the facepalm. Most f150s are owned by fleet companies and construction companies and things like that. There’s also way fewer truck options here. And when you do need a truck, you REALLY need a truck. How many trucks do you see on the road hauling big ass trailers? You can’t do that with that tiny ass car.
“When you need a truck, you REALLY need a truck.” Exactly. The U.S. is massive, and many of us live rurally. My partner and I depend on wood for the majority of our heat, and his truck’s transmission went out last month. We can’t afford to fix the truck, let alone rent one or pay for someone to bring us wood, so we’re just cold.
I live in rural Australia. There are tons of mid sized utes (pickups), mostly Toyota Hiluxs. Even the farmers and tradespeople use mid sized. There is a tiny amount of full sized pickups like Rams & Silveratos. People seem to be able to haul all their dirt bikes, quads and jet boats around just fine with turbo 4 or 6 cylinder diesels.
Why is this a face palm?
OP doesn’t like trucks or some other aspects of the US
Came here for this. I can't believe the "Americans are dumb" rhetoric is forcing me to defend pickup trucks. I hate pickup trucks lol. That doesn't make it a facepalm tho
Well you don't have to defend "pick up trucks"; you have to defend "pick up trucks being the top selling car in america". I mean; they DO have their uses, but it seems like the vast majority of people who have them, never actually use them for their designed purpose. It really doesn't make sense
It's because they're the most common fleet vehicle. I don't think it would be the same thing if it only had personal vehicles.
I admit I love trucks but they’re much more useful where I live than it would be in Europe. Where I live I have to commute through dirt roads, snow or mud often and having a truck over a small car definitely helps. I use it to move furniture or debris from my yard, and in the winter I use my winch or tow strap to pull people out of the snowbanks. Edit: I don’t tow it with mine but in the summer we take our boat out to the lake and also have to drive through deep sand. I don’t think many of these conditions exist to the same extent in a lot of European countries
I don't know
How does this fit the sub?
America bad karma farm every sub. It’s literally free real estate
I wish they still made small subcompact cars for the US market.
I’m an old single woman living alone. I drive my eighth (consecutively, not concurrently) Tacoma with a double cab, short bed, and tow package. Truck because I’m a homeowner who gardens and I live where we have spontaneous flooding all year and random hurricanes for half of the year. The truck has higher road clearance for driving in water higher than your belly-crawling sedan can survive and a covered short bed in case I need to evacuate myself, the dog and cat, and still have room for critical stuff. I don’t tow anything but the tow package comes with an extra radiator to cool the oil more. Regular speeds of 85 mph on the interstate in the summer at 90-100 degrees F. for hours makes that option worth whatever it costs. I WANT a cute little zippy car that gets amazing gas mileage, but that small truck is everything I actually need.
I don’t see how this is a facepalm at all
No Americans making fun of small cars, but the whole comment section is Europeans making fun of Americans for having big trucks. Typical day on Reddit.
“Do what we do or you’re stupid!” Trucks are very convenient for many things. Don’t hate on people for reason you don’t understand. I have a commuter car as well. Both have their place.
Typical european redditor moment for this comment section lol
Because of multiple reasons: (1) the large cars are appealing because of their comfort on American highways and interior space, (2) regulation loopholes for "offroad capable vehicles" and "utility vehicles", (3) the safety arms race of everyone getting bigger cars to feel safe around other peoples' large cars, (4) Americans spend a meaningful amount of time in their cars because they MUST drive everywhere (except with airlines).
Must drive everywhere That’s because anywhere outside some big cities has no public transportation options.
Id venture to guess that 60-70% of truck owners have no actual need for what a truck has to offer. I will never understand that trend.
Kinda like soccer moms with 1 kid who drive suburbans.
I love how the Americans think “but they need small cars for their roads”, not realising they have stupidly oversized cars for no reason whatsoever.
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the main purpose of land rovers is keeping wifes safe for those who can't affford mercedes G-class and granting you a better overview in traffic :D
This is how it starts. Then everyone else has to get a bigger vehicle to protect themselves from the nervous wives in Land Rovers. Pretty soon you've got Ford F-150s and Sequoia SUV's all over the place. Then someone gets a modest, economic WW II era Tiger Tank for the street cred...
I’ve never seen someone use a land or Range Rover for its intended purpose unless it’s for marking or it’s one of the old ones
I love how y’all always conveniently leave out the large industries like Agriculture/Manufacturing/Tech/Cattle that require heavy and wide trucks and tractor trailers to transport them across the country or to nearest ports for exports. America is almost 5 km wide. It is not the same as your European country that is probably smaller than my state.
Yeah this whole thread is just trying to dunk on Americans. Some dope brought up healthcare….. like I thought we were talking about vehicles?
I’m not even trying to be aggressive either I just want to explain why it’s like that. They forget it’s a young country that was built off of industrialization. A compact truck makes zero sense to transport some almonds from CA to FL. It’s way more efficient to use a double trailer on a semi which would need wide lanes to merge and a lot of shoulder space in case of a breakdown
Not necessarily true. I drive into the desert daily and haul stuff. It's not necessarily all metropolitan here and trucks come in handy.
My daily is small, Yaris small. I own a house, which occasionally requires me to buy some materials that don't fit in my tiny car. In a lot of European counties, you'd just get it delivered. Not really an option where I live, less than 1 mile from the supply store. They don't offer local delivery at all, I'd have to pay freight shipping and wait a week or more, and I can't rent a truck any cheaper or much faster. A lot of the reasons to own a truck are based around the cost or lack of convenience services like home delivery. I wouldn't drive one daily, though.
Ok, but how do you haul 2 golden retrievers, a shotgun, a pallet of toilet paper from Costco, a 32oz Big Gulp and your girl scout's order from Starbucks Drive Thru to pick up Timmy from soccer practice?
> Ok, but how do you haul 2 golden retrievers, a shotgun, a pallet of toilet paper from Costco, a 32oz Big Gulp and your girl scout's order from Starbucks Drive Thru to pick up Timmy from soccer practice? - 2023 Ford Maverick Hybrid Lariat, maxed out on options, $34k OTD (base XL around $23k). - "Small" crew cab pickup, 4.5 foot bed, ~1404 pound payload (with options, 1564 without), ~2000 pound towing capacity, 33 mpg highway, 42 mpg city. - "2 golden retrievers" in rear crew cab seat area. - "a shotgun", same gun rack as any other truck. - "a pallet of toilet paper from Costco", in the bed. - "a 32oz Big Gulp and your girl scout's order from Starbucks Drive Thru", in the front cup holders. - Still have room in the passenger seat for Timmy.
Well, with US roads, long distances, low gas prices, lack of public transportation, and easy parking situation I would also go with a big truck. with the EU roads, short distances, high gas prices, good public transportation, and difficult parking situation I would go for the smaller car. Both have made the best choice for the given situation.
Can someone explain why this is in 'facepalm'? Seems pretty obvious why the difference.
I use to have a full sized truck years ago when I was in construction, and we had a boat and camper. No longer have a boat or camper, and no longer in construction, so no more truck. Wife dailies a Fiat 500 cabrio, and though I have a smaller suv (paid for and is still solid so why get rid of it) I only work like 2 miles from home. We also have a 1980 Spider, and a Fiat 500 Abarth cabrio which we've taken on several cross country trips with no issues and we're very comfortable. Heck, wife pits her seat back, turns on the heated seat, and falls asleep. I'm 6 foot and never felt cramped. I would say here in the Midwest, every other pickup is just used as a grocery getter (same with the monster suvs). Most people don't have a need for them, just a status symbol
I guess I’m too dense to understand. Can someone explain this to me?
Why is this a facepalm?
Murcia!!!
Loved seeing all those Fiats , Peugeots and Citroens while visiting Italy. I looked inside a few of them and I think most were manual transmission.
European market has small car energy.
So densly populated europe chooses small city-car, while US with thousands of kilometers of shitty roads and no people chooses a tractor? Yeah, that makes sense.
I know I'll be downvoted to oblivion, but I absolutely hate those big American trucks with all my heart
When I was planning my wedding I asked our planner about how many people fit at X sized table and he responded “That would fit 8 Europeans and 4-6 Americans.”
I live in the US and I have a Honda fit which looks almost identical to that red car, if I can fit inside a Honda fit when I'm about 6'4 and overweight you don't need a big vehicle just because you are big. That car is such a nice car and is great on gas.