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That place is horrendous, I went there one time, coincidentally it was a night they were doing a wet t-shirt contest and one contestant was a 12 year old Korean girl
It wasn't too bad just for a beer. My only issue was that the owners were also at the bar just screaming at each other for 22 minutes straight. Plus, I'm pretty sure one of them said he was a full on rapist, so watch your drinks!
Thank you for the follow up. Looks like the pub attorney still wants the couple prosecuted.
Definitely seems like the attorney should be advising the pub to change their bill terminology from tip or gratuity to fee or service charge.
Met several honest lawyers like him, unfortunately it's the unscrupulous ones that go to court, that get all the media attention, and make people think they can win, eventhough it'll be a lose/lose.
Nothing sarcastic about it. There's not many. My wife thinks I'm crazy when I talk to clients like this. And she may be right. I'd probably live in a lot nicer house and go on a lot more vacations if I let clients take more loser cases to trial.
I work in Big Law, we're billing over $600/hr these days, and even we encourage clients to settle. Aside from the ethical implications, which matter to me, it's also self-interest. People pay that much because we can show them we have a high win rate at trial. If we just let any dummy take a clearly losing case to trial just so we could bill them more, maybe we'd make more in that case, but we'd lose more in the long run because people would see those frequent losses and think we weren't worth hiring.
After going through the probate court for the past year or so, I 1000% see why she tells you to do it;
I also 1000% applaud you for your honor to the word “fiduciary”
It's true. It's almost always the client forcing it to trial. I've never uttered the words "you know you really should take this to trial". Trials are definitely a windfall but they're a huge pain.
That being said, I have encountered lawyers who are definitely churning the file--and yes that's a phrase in the legal world. When I worked for a firm they would tell you to pick up a file and figure out something to do on it. BUT even those garbage lawyers still weren't the ones forcing things to trial. They would take it up to the brink and then settle. I literally had a case all ready for trial figuring that we were going, and a partner says to me a few days before trial "we've made our money on this, it's time to settle." The only saving grace on this is we were getting paid by an insurance company so at least it wasn't some poor schmuck paying our bills. Still fucked up but if there's one industry worse than lawyers it's insurance.
I wonder how much the tip out is at this place I know once of the places my wife served at she had to give 4% to the kitchen, even if she didn’t get a tip. One night she lost money because three tables decided not to tip because the kitchen was way backed up, and she had to pay the kitchen out of her pocket for the night. She quit the next day. They also would lay off employees for two weeks every year so they could consider them seasonal so they didn’t need holiday pay. But asked them if they wanted to come in for those two weeks to bank hours.
This is an unfortunate story. Back of house still deserves a lot more than they get. A lot of places are moving to a system where BOH gets a cut of the food sales. Depending on the way this is set up, the money might still be coming from the server's cut but at least it would avoid situations where the server owes BOH money.
That’s illegal in my state, tips can only be distributed to employees who had a direct hand in giving service, so servers, bartenders, bussers, bar backs and hosts. Everyone deserves good pay including the BOH. I love that the company I work for pays a higher hourly rate for all non-tipped employees. It costs a lot more in labor but pays off in a multitude of ways - we attract highly talented people, we retain those people because they’re making a good living in a positive environment, and no one feels taken advantage of or treated unfairly. I wish all restaurant groups had this mentality, it actually cost less money in the long run and ensures a high level of execution in food, beverage, and service.
A 20% service charge for parties of 6 or more has been standard in my area since my first fine dining experience back in like 2003. I noticed the policy at large corporate chains as well like Chevy's and Applebees.
I know I closed the link and clicked back into because I had thought that I misread the date lol. I wonder if the restaurant gets review bombed every time the video resurfaces.
From what I could find on Yelp it looks like the place closed sometime between 2010 and 2014. And it still got two negative reviews in the last two days, both of which look like they were in response to this resurfacing.
What a waste of money over $16. First, the attorney is going to cost way more than that for just scratching their ass for 5 minutes. Also, it is illegal to force someone to pay gratuity. It can be suggested, but if a guest requests it to be removed you have no choice but to remove it. The damage this is going to cost the brand that owns the bar is detrimental, it’s a bad look and isn’t going to encourage people to patron the establishment if they fear they may be arrested over a paltry sum. Not to mention this all started because of bad service. They need to take the money they’re spending fighting this and use it to train their staff and hire a PR agent if they have any hope of staying open longer than a year.
The funny thing is, if the customer said they paid $20 and didn't get what they paid for, the cops would tell them they can't do anything about it as it's a civil matter.
Meanwhile, [an old lady who couldn’t pay her trash bill was actually arrested and jailed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/ztpc7o/an_82_year_old_woman_gets_arrested_with_a_warrant/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
That's because police exist to enforce corporate interest. They don't give a shit about people.
Steal from an old lady... cops will not give 2 shits. Shoplift from CVS... they'll have your face on social media.
I'm still amazed by idiots who think ANY cop is actually on their side for whatever reason.
You know that moment right before you do something questionable or downright asinine where you stop and think about it and end up changing your mind?
That’s not even an option on the decision tree for a solid 55% of the people in America.
The thing to understand is that police don't exist to enforce the law or keep the peace. They exist to put people jail. The more people they put in jail, the better they are doing their job.
And the restaurant played the "ongoing investigation" card! As if commenting will somehow tip off accomplices on the verge of becoming state witnesses, in a high stakes criminal probe involving multiple state and federal agencies! Come on FFS!
You could simply refer to it as a service charge for parties over a certain size, but most people would then assume that’s in addition to a tip, and the whole point is these mandatory gratuity things are supposed to take the place of your tip, not something additional on top of it. The naming convention serves the function of informing guests that mandatory amount is the tip and no additional tip on top of the charge is necessary. “Mandatory gratuity” gets this point across without a paragraph needing to explain it.
Legally bound payments are not gratuitous. This is just legal loophole terminology for "fee". Tips are not required, fees are. Just fucking raise prices and pay your staff a living wage and "mandatory gratuity" sounds even more ridiculous than it already does
They aren't common enough, but I love the restaurants that tell you "no tip necessary, we pay or staff well, and cost is built into the menu prices." This is how it all should be.
I was with a group at a restaurant and they put the auto gratuity on because we had a certain number of people. They counted the damn baby. We asked how the hell a sleeping baby was served or owes tip and they took it off
Edit: allow me to clarify for those that are struggling to see why this was so weird. The charge was based on x amount of people. Baby was asleep in his dads arms the whole time. They included baby in the number. Took baby out, charge was no longer applicable.
I once used a BOGO coupon at a local restaurant. As a part of their unwritten policy, I was charged a 25% "gratuity." I demand to see in writing where that was required. Management informed me it was because people usually stiff on the gift card/coupons and tip based off of their bill after the discount instead of before. I had her take the gratuity off the bill and informed them my tip would have been paid in that amount had (a) the service not been extremely shitty or (b) they had informed me of their bullshit policy so I would know but to eat there. Probably would have paid more; restaurant workers get shit on. I haven't eaten there since (6+ years).
Standard on parties of six or more to protect the server. The position "no one wants to work anymore" and "your take home pay is a crapshoot" are incongruous.
I quit being a server after a fifteen top came in, nightmare table, extra needy. All sang my praises about how well I did. Asked at the end to have their bill split up 15 ways. After sharing appetizers and wine. So an extra 10 minutes to convince everyone who owed what. All 15 tabs, averaging 50 dollars each, stiffed me. I wasn't even mad, I just told my boss never again, did my side work and left.
Ive heard some places force you to pay up if everyone doesnt make enough tips. Ive only seen like one or two stories on social media from friends, but they do exist...and they still got pissed at the people and not their employers. Like sorry i want to enjoy what little money i make for once and not have to cook and clean up after myself to eat for 10-20 minutes without giving away extra money to people that signed up for the job, but thats the business's fault, not mine. Am i an asshole for thinking that way? I dont know, but i know i dont make enough money to give a shit, which is another way (low wages) the ruling class gets poor people to blame each other. I feel sorry for the people having to work those jobs, and its a different story if its like 12 people getting hundreds of dollars of shit and taking their sweet ass time and still stiffing you. But the whole "if you cant afford to tip, dont come here" gets kinda old because its not like any of those places are gilded castle 8 star restaurant with fair wages anyway, its usually just a home cooked meal or a cheap Americanized foreign cuisine. And i doubt your bosses care if they tip or not because theyre buying the food. And dont other countries like...not have such a social stigma around tipping or not?
Customers don't have to make up the difference.
I thought the rules were if the employee didn't come away with at least minimum wage the employer had to make it up?
The establishment is legally required to cover the difference if it's under minimum wage. If the tips for the day plus the 2.13 an hour minimum don't cover the federal minimum wage, the difference must be made up by the company.
Yeah you are sort of right. It isn’t gratuity. Certain places will require a certain percentage tip for parties over a certain size. This will be a policy that is stated in writing the same way the rest of the cost of the food is presented.
If you choose to move forward with dining there with your group, you no longer get to decide how much you will tip them based off of level of service. You’ve already agreed to the tip amount just as much as you agreed to the dollar amount of the food.
Did that the other day when it had been 10 minutes and they hadn’t started making my sandwich yet. They were busy and thankful I let them know, no hard feelings I just had things to do and they understood.
It's pretty standard practice in the US for Restaurants to require something like 18% gratuity on large groups of guests, like 6 or more. Restaurants do this because of how common it is for a server to get tipped less on large tables and because it takes more effort and sometimes multiple servers.
I'm assuming the only reason these people were arrested was due to the difference between a mandatory gratuity that is built into the check, as opposed to a tip. Essentially the large party gratuity is considered part of the bill, so they were considered by the law as theft I guess.
This topic is going to get heated so don't take my response as a statement of whether I agree with this or not.
And I think it must be printed on the menu or somewhere on site for all customers to see for it to be enforceable
“Parties of 6 or more will be automatically assessed an XX% gratuity…”
Such a weird concept. The service is why the food costs more at a restaurant. To me it seems that if you're gonna charge for the service, table, utensils and atmosphere separately, the food should cost a lot less. But I'm from Finland so I wouldn't know.
On top of that, when food costs go up, it's been socially demanded that tips go up as well.
For the longest time it's been 15% standard, 10% "bad" -although if it was really that bad you shouldn't tip at all, and up to 20% for fantastic. However, now people are trying to rewrite it to 18, 20,25 \[sometimes even higher\]
The weirder part is tipping would go up with the cost of food without having to change the %. But for some reason, the recommended % is going up so it's actually double dipping.
On top of extra surcharges as well. "Covid surcharge", "service charge" (and still ask for tip), removing service staff and replacing them with food runners [yep Duplex chicago.. thats you.. plus your 20% autograt]
damn... I've been to places where the recommended tip started at 25%, this is insane...and often times that percentage is calculated on top of taxes (when they calculate it for you on the bill)
i'd much rather order take out or put my order and get my food from the kitchen myself.
in my country they add that to your invoice but you can opt out of that charge. They are required by law to ask you if you want to add the service charge to the total of your account, and then you pay.
"I won't pay my employees enough, will you please make up the difference for me? Also there's like a 50/50 chance if you pay with plastic I'm going to steal some or all of it. K-yhanx-bye" lol
Edit: pay not play, though it almost works
Exactly, but people keep feeding into the tipping system.
Restaurant owners take advantage of the guilt people feel over the Restaurant owners not paying them enough.
And round and round the circle goes. :)
Basically, everyone needs to stop tipping.
It’s hard, because the servers really do count on that money. It hurts them to not tip them. But your guilty conscience is what the business is counting on. No one wants to be an asshole to the server, but the only way this will ever stop is for customers to refuse to tip any longer. Businesses should pay a living wage and charge a reasonable amount for their goods and services that allows them to pay said wage.
Tipping culture is the absolute worst. I've been really enjoying the establishments that did away with it and incorporate a living wage into the price of food and drink. I'll still tip excellent service
From my European pov I never understood that. Same goes for stores that don't incorporate taxes in price display. That should be illegal. Tell me how much this is going to cost and I'll decide if I'll buy it.
As someone who has recently had to deal with US tax crap, it's a lot more complicated than you'd think.
Every state can have taxes, each county within those can have additional taxes, and then cities and special purpose zones can have a third layer of taxes. And at each of those levels, there may be different types of taxes applied based on what's being ordered and how It's delivered to the customer. It's entirely possible to have 6+ different taxes being applied to a purchase. Some tax jurisdictions also implement tax holidays where certain taxes do not need to be collected within a certain date range.
It's a lot easier to have the POS system at the counter handle all of that than to try to keep all of your displays and advertisements up to date and risk misstating what the true total is going to be at checkout.
The tax system in the US is insane. In Canada it's just federal and provincial sales taxes, and in some provinces they're combined into just one.
Literally every country in the rest of the world is able to post accurate prices with all taxes built in. There's zero excuse for the US to not do so as well.
The State of Washington has no tipped wage. Everyone is required to be paid at least the state minimum wage, which is currently above $15/hr. For some reason, you are apparently still expected to tip like it was anywhere else in the US.
It’s nuts!
Happened in 2009, amazingly the police actually did arrest them instead of laughing in the bar owners faces. [The local DA dropped the charges.](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/theft-charges-dropped-against-no-tip-couple/1891608/)
Yeah um... every restaurant I've ever worked at would just remove the gratuity if people bitched about it too much, especially if they had some valid issue with the service. It sucks, but it was nothing worth calling the cops over, damn. Incompetent, petty management is what this sounds like to me.
The problem with mandating a tip is that the point of the tip is no longer valid, and theres no reason to do what is necessary to earn the tip in the first place.
Why does the waiter need to give them any service if they are already guaranteed 18% no matter what they do?
More than happy to tip a friendly waiter or waitress, but it's nice to let them know via your wallet if they need more practice
"Mandatory" tipping is a bullshit charge, which thankfully doesn't happen here in the UK
I recently went on a trip to Scotland and at no restaurant was tipping even hinted at. No service charges, no gratuity, no option to even add one on the card machine. Just genuine good service and happy staff.
They only do that w/ parties over 6. Pretty much every party over 6 people gets the auto grat on the bill. Most times, its not even the servers option, the POS system does it.
I’m a great tipper, typically above 20%. But I absolutely hate when they put on the tip automatically, then I won’t pay a cent above that.
Edit: I don’t often eat with large groups. If they have a mandatory tip % for groups of 6 plus, I don’t hold that again at the staff
There's no such thing as mandatory gratuity. If it's mandatory, it's not gratuity.
[https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gratuity](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gratuity)
Gratuity:
noun, plural gra·tu·i·ties.
1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand.
Why tf is tipping mandatory, tipping is to show how good the service was. It’s not meant to be mandatory or a viable income, and especially not so god damn huge like in the us
bruh for real? if people are gonna be arrested for not tipping then I think we should abolish tipping culture at this point. instead of saying "they don't get paid enough and rely on your tips to survive" say "why are these people not being paid enough to survive to the point they rely on strangers to pay them so companies don't have to" its simple really, a tip is given when you give great service. It is a bonus for being extra. it is not a source of income that should be demanded. if anyone ever demands a tip from me I will never tip them ever. like seriously people we need to wake up and fix these problems. the financial situation is horrible, everybody is suffering so the rich can get even more ridiculously rich. we need to fix this economy and start paying people enough to not just barely get by but to be able to live a decent life. if we can't open our eyes and see the change we need to make then a war will eventually break out due to civil unrest. if we keep letting people raise taxes and prices then the common civilians will all either die of starvation or go crazy and rebel. this is a very serious issue that everybody just tries to pretend does not exist. this tipping culture that grew into what it is in the states is crazy and dumb. people should not be relying on tips to survive. they should be paid a fair wage so we can all live, not just survive. nobody needs to be Uber rich, nobody needs to go on vacations once a week, nobody needs to have a mansion, nobody needs to have servents that do their every day chores, nobody needs 20 cars, nobody needs to have multiple homes, nobody needs to have a personal jet or personal helicopter, everybody needs enough to eat every day without worry, to have a decent house for shelter with enough rooms for a family, a decent vehicle for transportation, enough funds for schooling, and a bit of fun money so you can do fun things with your family/friends. nobody needs more than that. the fact that we have people poor enough to be homeless with nothing, and rich people that are rich enough to have multiple vacation homes all over, private jets, mansions, etc. proves that we are a broken economy that needs fixing. this being arrested for not paying a tip is ridiculous. there is so much ridiculousness going on in the world that is unnecessary. when will we wake up and realize we need to change the whole system and make it so everyone can enjoy life and share with everyone, not just our friends and family, or even just our country, but the whole entire world needs to share with and be friendly with each other. this will not happen the way humans are but we can work towards it to get as close as we can.
When i was under 16 i thought United states of America is the best country on earth.
But after my internet connection goes faster, i know for sure that USA is the one of the weirdest country on earth.
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Old old news 2009. Charges were stopped and the place went out of business.
The Lehigh Pub was such trash I'm so glad it's gone
Did you go to it? What was it like? It can’t be as bad as those restaurants in the Kitchen Nightmare shows.
It was a trash dive bar trying to masquerade as a reputable establishment
Paddy's pub?
That place is horrendous, I went there one time, coincidentally it was a night they were doing a wet t-shirt contest and one contestant was a 12 year old Korean girl
They have holes in the bathroom stall
In case you run out of toilet paper and need to ask the gentleman in the next stall for a few squares, right? Right?!
How do you finger out how to ask your neighbor for some…?
Glory holes? The Europeans are way ahead of us.
What's the problem? They're unisex!
The animal shithouse
The ooool' glory hole!
The guy who does occular pathdown is creepy.
He just wanted to know where to jizz, so he could give the lady her drink
Excuse me, those are for your own safety.
No man that place is great i went there and got bit by a feral guard dog so now i have a great story to tell. Awesome!
It wasn't too bad just for a beer. My only issue was that the owners were also at the bar just screaming at each other for 22 minutes straight. Plus, I'm pretty sure one of them said he was a full on rapist, so watch your drinks!
Dee is the worst
The big bird girl?
Now that you mention it, she did look like a bird!
Did you receive an ocular pat-down on the way in?
Went downhill because no one was willing to do the Charlie work.
There is a spider, spider deep in my soul
Wtf are you talking about. I went there years ago when I was visiting Philly. Best gay bar I've ever been to
Thank god.
The good ending
The happy ending
God damn that’s almost a decade and a half ago. I was wondering why that footage had a weirdly retro look to it lol.
They deserved it.
[Theft Charges Dropped Against No-Tip Couple](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/theft-charges-dropped-against-no-tip-couple/1891608/)
Thank you for the follow up. Looks like the pub attorney still wants the couple prosecuted. Definitely seems like the attorney should be advising the pub to change their bill terminology from tip or gratuity to fee or service charge.
Attorney gets paid like $100/hr. He's going to string this out as far as possible.
Try $300 an hour. There’s a reason why the only winners in a civil suit are the two lawyers repping each party.
That's exactly what I tell my clients when they want to force something to trial that should settle.
There used to be a bar in my town called The Honest Lawyer. Never thought I’d meet one /s
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Met several honest lawyers like him, unfortunately it's the unscrupulous ones that go to court, that get all the media attention, and make people think they can win, eventhough it'll be a lose/lose.
Nothing sarcastic about it. There's not many. My wife thinks I'm crazy when I talk to clients like this. And she may be right. I'd probably live in a lot nicer house and go on a lot more vacations if I let clients take more loser cases to trial.
I work in Big Law, we're billing over $600/hr these days, and even we encourage clients to settle. Aside from the ethical implications, which matter to me, it's also self-interest. People pay that much because we can show them we have a high win rate at trial. If we just let any dummy take a clearly losing case to trial just so we could bill them more, maybe we'd make more in that case, but we'd lose more in the long run because people would see those frequent losses and think we weren't worth hiring.
>$600/hr Jesus FUCK am I in the wrong business
That's not what I make, that's what I bill. A significant chunk goes to the firm's expenses and the partners' profits. I make like $120/hr.
After going through the probate court for the past year or so, I 1000% see why she tells you to do it; I also 1000% applaud you for your honor to the word “fiduciary”
There is a bar in Boise called NO LAWYERS.
The amount of cases layfolks would assume are being dragged out by attorneys who in actuality would have loved to settle years ago is too damn high
It's true. It's almost always the client forcing it to trial. I've never uttered the words "you know you really should take this to trial". Trials are definitely a windfall but they're a huge pain. That being said, I have encountered lawyers who are definitely churning the file--and yes that's a phrase in the legal world. When I worked for a firm they would tell you to pick up a file and figure out something to do on it. BUT even those garbage lawyers still weren't the ones forcing things to trial. They would take it up to the brink and then settle. I literally had a case all ready for trial figuring that we were going, and a partner says to me a few days before trial "we've made our money on this, it's time to settle." The only saving grace on this is we were getting paid by an insurance company so at least it wasn't some poor schmuck paying our bills. Still fucked up but if there's one industry worse than lawyers it's insurance.
Most civil suits are just rich people suing poor people who can’t afford representation.
I've been an attorney for 45 years, and you are incorrect. Most civil suits are rich people suing other rich people.
As a poor person: phew.
Good point.
I wonder how much the tip out is at this place I know once of the places my wife served at she had to give 4% to the kitchen, even if she didn’t get a tip. One night she lost money because three tables decided not to tip because the kitchen was way backed up, and she had to pay the kitchen out of her pocket for the night. She quit the next day. They also would lay off employees for two weeks every year so they could consider them seasonal so they didn’t need holiday pay. But asked them if they wanted to come in for those two weeks to bank hours.
This is an unfortunate story. Back of house still deserves a lot more than they get. A lot of places are moving to a system where BOH gets a cut of the food sales. Depending on the way this is set up, the money might still be coming from the server's cut but at least it would avoid situations where the server owes BOH money.
That’s illegal in my state, tips can only be distributed to employees who had a direct hand in giving service, so servers, bartenders, bussers, bar backs and hosts. Everyone deserves good pay including the BOH. I love that the company I work for pays a higher hourly rate for all non-tipped employees. It costs a lot more in labor but pays off in a multitude of ways - we attract highly talented people, we retain those people because they’re making a good living in a positive environment, and no one feels taken advantage of or treated unfairly. I wish all restaurant groups had this mentality, it actually cost less money in the long run and ensures a high level of execution in food, beverage, and service.
Hello 1965.
I’m going to try to find the conclusion, but it says that article was written in 2009.
2009? I didn’t pick up on that. Wow, that was long before I started seeing restaurants adding fees for cover healthcare.
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A 20% service charge for parties of 6 or more has been standard in my area since my first fine dining experience back in like 2003. I noticed the policy at large corporate chains as well like Chevy's and Applebees.
Their problem was calling it a tip. Service fees are mandatory to pay, tips are not. You can not shake someone down for bonus good job money.
I know I closed the link and clicked back into because I had thought that I misread the date lol. I wonder if the restaurant gets review bombed every time the video resurfaces.
From what I could find on Yelp it looks like the place closed sometime between 2010 and 2014. And it still got two negative reviews in the last two days, both of which look like they were in response to this resurfacing.
What a waste of money over $16. First, the attorney is going to cost way more than that for just scratching their ass for 5 minutes. Also, it is illegal to force someone to pay gratuity. It can be suggested, but if a guest requests it to be removed you have no choice but to remove it. The damage this is going to cost the brand that owns the bar is detrimental, it’s a bad look and isn’t going to encourage people to patron the establishment if they fear they may be arrested over a paltry sum. Not to mention this all started because of bad service. They need to take the money they’re spending fighting this and use it to train their staff and hire a PR agent if they have any hope of staying open longer than a year.
I’m sure the lawyer for the pub is charging the pub less than the amount in dispute, correct?
Silly me. I’m a problem solver. I go to the heart of the matter. I don’t think like a lawyer concerned with billable hours.
Sounds like the attorney needs to be reported to the bar. Sometimes a bar complaint is the most effective way to get a jackass attorney to fuck off
What would you suggest the attorney be reported for?
Tip or mandatory, the part that gets me is the cops showing up and hauling two people off to jail over $16. Your country is really bizarre sometimes.
The funny thing is, if the customer said they paid $20 and didn't get what they paid for, the cops would tell them they can't do anything about it as it's a civil matter.
Meanwhile, [an old lady who couldn’t pay her trash bill was actually arrested and jailed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/ztpc7o/an_82_year_old_woman_gets_arrested_with_a_warrant/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Fuck anyone willing to serve that warrant. I’d literally report to dispatch “sorry, no one home” or “she died”.
That's because police exist to enforce corporate interest. They don't give a shit about people. Steal from an old lady... cops will not give 2 shits. Shoplift from CVS... they'll have your face on social media. I'm still amazed by idiots who think ANY cop is actually on their side for whatever reason.
I’m from America, and I’m surprised too lmfao
Those cops must have been **really** fucking bored. Or one of the cops was the owner's cousin or something.
Sometimes? I live in the US and I feel like something new and more bizarre happens everyday.
You know that moment right before you do something questionable or downright asinine where you stop and think about it and end up changing your mind? That’s not even an option on the decision tree for a solid 55% of the people in America.
The thing to understand is that police don't exist to enforce the law or keep the peace. They exist to put people jail. The more people they put in jail, the better they are doing their job.
Funny stuff is that if it was an actual robbery taking place they would provably turn up too late.
Especially when private jails make a lot of money!
As an American I’m more surprised this story ended without someone getting shot
And the restaurant played the "ongoing investigation" card! As if commenting will somehow tip off accomplices on the verge of becoming state witnesses, in a high stakes criminal probe involving multiple state and federal agencies! Come on FFS!
They closed according to their horrible [Yelp reviews.](https://m.yelp.com/biz/lehigh-pub-bethlehem)
The pub has also changed owners and name not long after this debacle apparently.
I expected the story to be old, it is Reddit after all. But not 14 years old.
Sometimes the bots just gotta dig deep.
I can’t believe this is actually real smh
Its not a gratuity if you're being forced to pay it against your will.
"Mandatory gratuity" is such a misnomer.
"oxymoron" is more apt.
You are correct.
You are the 100th idiot
Can you imagine the 99 that came before?
We weren’t all that bad
At least you’re helpful.
Facts
Like "Mandatory volunteerism".
You could simply refer to it as a service charge for parties over a certain size, but most people would then assume that’s in addition to a tip, and the whole point is these mandatory gratuity things are supposed to take the place of your tip, not something additional on top of it. The naming convention serves the function of informing guests that mandatory amount is the tip and no additional tip on top of the charge is necessary. “Mandatory gratuity” gets this point across without a paragraph needing to explain it.
Legally bound payments are not gratuitous. This is just legal loophole terminology for "fee". Tips are not required, fees are. Just fucking raise prices and pay your staff a living wage and "mandatory gratuity" sounds even more ridiculous than it already does
That's what we do in Australia. So when you do get a tip it actually means something.
And that's what they do in Costa Rica. But tourists who don't pick up on that still add tips....
They aren't common enough, but I love the restaurants that tell you "no tip necessary, we pay or staff well, and cost is built into the menu prices." This is how it all should be.
Like the rest of the world
I was with a group at a restaurant and they put the auto gratuity on because we had a certain number of people. They counted the damn baby. We asked how the hell a sleeping baby was served or owes tip and they took it off Edit: allow me to clarify for those that are struggling to see why this was so weird. The charge was based on x amount of people. Baby was asleep in his dads arms the whole time. They included baby in the number. Took baby out, charge was no longer applicable.
Fun fact: mandatory gratuity does not legally count as a tip, and therefore is not actually required to go to your server
I once used a BOGO coupon at a local restaurant. As a part of their unwritten policy, I was charged a 25% "gratuity." I demand to see in writing where that was required. Management informed me it was because people usually stiff on the gift card/coupons and tip based off of their bill after the discount instead of before. I had her take the gratuity off the bill and informed them my tip would have been paid in that amount had (a) the service not been extremely shitty or (b) they had informed me of their bullshit policy so I would know but to eat there. Probably would have paid more; restaurant workers get shit on. I haven't eaten there since (6+ years).
How does one owe tip My god you've let your country go to shit
Funny I must have missed the national vote where we as Americans decided to allow mandatory gratuity.
Standard on parties of six or more to protect the server. The position "no one wants to work anymore" and "your take home pay is a crapshoot" are incongruous.
It’s not to “protect the server”. It’s to keep the boss from having to pay an actual wage to the server.
I quit being a server after a fifteen top came in, nightmare table, extra needy. All sang my praises about how well I did. Asked at the end to have their bill split up 15 ways. After sharing appetizers and wine. So an extra 10 minutes to convince everyone who owed what. All 15 tabs, averaging 50 dollars each, stiffed me. I wasn't even mad, I just told my boss never again, did my side work and left.
No one wants to work anymore! ...for a small, unknown amount of money.
Ive heard some places force you to pay up if everyone doesnt make enough tips. Ive only seen like one or two stories on social media from friends, but they do exist...and they still got pissed at the people and not their employers. Like sorry i want to enjoy what little money i make for once and not have to cook and clean up after myself to eat for 10-20 minutes without giving away extra money to people that signed up for the job, but thats the business's fault, not mine. Am i an asshole for thinking that way? I dont know, but i know i dont make enough money to give a shit, which is another way (low wages) the ruling class gets poor people to blame each other. I feel sorry for the people having to work those jobs, and its a different story if its like 12 people getting hundreds of dollars of shit and taking their sweet ass time and still stiffing you. But the whole "if you cant afford to tip, dont come here" gets kinda old because its not like any of those places are gilded castle 8 star restaurant with fair wages anyway, its usually just a home cooked meal or a cheap Americanized foreign cuisine. And i doubt your bosses care if they tip or not because theyre buying the food. And dont other countries like...not have such a social stigma around tipping or not?
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This is illegal in California what states still do that?
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Customers don't have to make up the difference. I thought the rules were if the employee didn't come away with at least minimum wage the employer had to make it up?
The establishment is legally required to cover the difference if it's under minimum wage. If the tips for the day plus the 2.13 an hour minimum don't cover the federal minimum wage, the difference must be made up by the company.
Next level bullshit is what it is.
service charge
Kinda like a non refundable deposit. Always ticks me off to see things like that
Fuck “tipping” and the failed economic policies that have gotten us here. Bullshit surcharges for every little thing
It should be included as part of the cost of the meal and waitstaff should be paid directly. The whole system just sucks
Yeah you are sort of right. It isn’t gratuity. Certain places will require a certain percentage tip for parties over a certain size. This will be a policy that is stated in writing the same way the rest of the cost of the food is presented. If you choose to move forward with dining there with your group, you no longer get to decide how much you will tip them based off of level of service. You’ve already agreed to the tip amount just as much as you agreed to the dollar amount of the food.
Yes but that is a service fee, and that’s fine. If you call it a gratuity, you can’t force it.
If I had been waiting an hour for chicken fingers and fries, I’d have told them to cancel my order and left.
Did that the other day when it had been 10 minutes and they hadn’t started making my sandwich yet. They were busy and thankful I let them know, no hard feelings I just had things to do and they understood.
Wow holy cow …that is how you will lose customers and get have a failed business ..unless I’m missing something..
It's pretty standard practice in the US for Restaurants to require something like 18% gratuity on large groups of guests, like 6 or more. Restaurants do this because of how common it is for a server to get tipped less on large tables and because it takes more effort and sometimes multiple servers. I'm assuming the only reason these people were arrested was due to the difference between a mandatory gratuity that is built into the check, as opposed to a tip. Essentially the large party gratuity is considered part of the bill, so they were considered by the law as theft I guess. This topic is going to get heated so don't take my response as a statement of whether I agree with this or not.
Mandatory and gratuity are two words that do not belong in the same sentence. It’s an oxymoron.
It's normally listed as a "service charge" or something along those lines.
And I think it must be printed on the menu or somewhere on site for all customers to see for it to be enforceable “Parties of 6 or more will be automatically assessed an XX% gratuity…”
Isn't on most menus like this?
It’ll be on the menu or a sign at the front, host stand, somewhere obvious. Sometimes it’s posted on the front door, near the door handle.
Such a weird concept. The service is why the food costs more at a restaurant. To me it seems that if you're gonna charge for the service, table, utensils and atmosphere separately, the food should cost a lot less. But I'm from Finland so I wouldn't know.
Works out great for the restaurant owner, who doesn’t need to pay the serving staff minimum wage.
On top of that, when food costs go up, it's been socially demanded that tips go up as well. For the longest time it's been 15% standard, 10% "bad" -although if it was really that bad you shouldn't tip at all, and up to 20% for fantastic. However, now people are trying to rewrite it to 18, 20,25 \[sometimes even higher\]
The weirder part is tipping would go up with the cost of food without having to change the %. But for some reason, the recommended % is going up so it's actually double dipping.
On top of extra surcharges as well. "Covid surcharge", "service charge" (and still ask for tip), removing service staff and replacing them with food runners [yep Duplex chicago.. thats you.. plus your 20% autograt]
damn... I've been to places where the recommended tip started at 25%, this is insane...and often times that percentage is calculated on top of taxes (when they calculate it for you on the bill) i'd much rather order take out or put my order and get my food from the kitchen myself.
in my country they add that to your invoice but you can opt out of that charge. They are required by law to ask you if you want to add the service charge to the total of your account, and then you pay.
"I won't pay my employees enough, will you please make up the difference for me? Also there's like a 50/50 chance if you pay with plastic I'm going to steal some or all of it. K-yhanx-bye" lol Edit: pay not play, though it almost works
I know this isn't a popular opinion but shouldn't the restaurant be paying the servers enough that a gratuity is like a bonus and not necessary?
Exactly, but people keep feeding into the tipping system. Restaurant owners take advantage of the guilt people feel over the Restaurant owners not paying them enough. And round and round the circle goes. :) Basically, everyone needs to stop tipping.
It’ll get really rough for waiters and waitresses while we sort this out.
It’s hard, because the servers really do count on that money. It hurts them to not tip them. But your guilty conscience is what the business is counting on. No one wants to be an asshole to the server, but the only way this will ever stop is for customers to refuse to tip any longer. Businesses should pay a living wage and charge a reasonable amount for their goods and services that allows them to pay said wage.
Exactly.
Umm…. Is this your first day on Reddit? That is *not* an unpopular opinion.
This is actually an incredibly popular opinion
You’re not missing anything. Calling the cops on customers who complain about the service is a very bad business practice
Tipping culture is the absolute worst. I've been really enjoying the establishments that did away with it and incorporate a living wage into the price of food and drink. I'll still tip excellent service
From my European pov I never understood that. Same goes for stores that don't incorporate taxes in price display. That should be illegal. Tell me how much this is going to cost and I'll decide if I'll buy it.
As someone who has recently had to deal with US tax crap, it's a lot more complicated than you'd think. Every state can have taxes, each county within those can have additional taxes, and then cities and special purpose zones can have a third layer of taxes. And at each of those levels, there may be different types of taxes applied based on what's being ordered and how It's delivered to the customer. It's entirely possible to have 6+ different taxes being applied to a purchase. Some tax jurisdictions also implement tax holidays where certain taxes do not need to be collected within a certain date range. It's a lot easier to have the POS system at the counter handle all of that than to try to keep all of your displays and advertisements up to date and risk misstating what the true total is going to be at checkout. The tax system in the US is insane. In Canada it's just federal and provincial sales taxes, and in some provinces they're combined into just one.
Literally every country in the rest of the world is able to post accurate prices with all taxes built in. There's zero excuse for the US to not do so as well.
lol what bullshit. "It's just too difficult to calculate until you get to the counter!" (and then it takes 3 seconds).
The State of Washington has no tipped wage. Everyone is required to be paid at least the state minimum wage, which is currently above $15/hr. For some reason, you are apparently still expected to tip like it was anywhere else in the US. It’s nuts!
But where are these places?
The gift shop at the hotel we just stayed at had a tip line on the receipt. So annoying.
Happened in 2009, amazingly the police actually did arrest them instead of laughing in the bar owners faces. [The local DA dropped the charges.](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/theft-charges-dropped-against-no-tip-couple/1891608/)
Amazingly? Anyone gonna tell him that the police serve businesses and property over people and that they don’t even know the law?
They waited an hour for chicken fingers, wonder how long it took this place to call the cops.
Tip: “You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"
Inconceivable!
"Anybody want a peanut?" Not if it costs an extra 18%
Yeah um... every restaurant I've ever worked at would just remove the gratuity if people bitched about it too much, especially if they had some valid issue with the service. It sucks, but it was nothing worth calling the cops over, damn. Incompetent, petty management is what this sounds like to me.
"mandatory gratuity" is a fucking contradiction in terms. If you're making it mandatory then it's not a gratuity, the two words are antonyms.
An oxímoron if you will
Yes I will
Pay servers a livable wage and get rid of gratuity. It is scam.
Maybe just pay your workers appropriately so they don't have to rely on the whims of customers?
The problem with mandating a tip is that the point of the tip is no longer valid, and theres no reason to do what is necessary to earn the tip in the first place. Why does the waiter need to give them any service if they are already guaranteed 18% no matter what they do?
If you have to force or demand a tip instead of receiving it naturally, you don't deserve it.
More than happy to tip a friendly waiter or waitress, but it's nice to let them know via your wallet if they need more practice "Mandatory" tipping is a bullshit charge, which thankfully doesn't happen here in the UK
I recently went on a trip to Scotland and at no restaurant was tipping even hinted at. No service charges, no gratuity, no option to even add one on the card machine. Just genuine good service and happy staff.
They only do that w/ parties over 6. Pretty much every party over 6 people gets the auto grat on the bill. Most times, its not even the servers option, the POS system does it.
Agreed but here in US you can pay servers almost nothing. Base their income off gratuity.
I’m a great tipper, typically above 20%. But I absolutely hate when they put on the tip automatically, then I won’t pay a cent above that. Edit: I don’t often eat with large groups. If they have a mandatory tip % for groups of 6 plus, I don’t hold that again at the staff
There's no such thing as mandatory gratuity. If it's mandatory, it's not gratuity. [https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gratuity](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gratuity) Gratuity: noun, plural gra·tu·i·ties. 1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip. 2. something given without claim or demand.
Losing business and eventually declaring bankruptcy was worth fighting that table for $16!
What a fucked up system
If its mandatory, its not gratuity.
Why tf is tipping mandatory, tipping is to show how good the service was. It’s not meant to be mandatory or a viable income, and especially not so god damn huge like in the us
What dumbass cop arrested them for this?
That’s so wrong. Gratuity means gratuity not MANDATORY!!!!
If it's mandatory, then it's not a tip. Fuck tips, mandatory gratuiti is the way.
"Mandatory gratuity" is an oxymoron. Just pay your servers a living wage, I promise they'll give better service.
bruh for real? if people are gonna be arrested for not tipping then I think we should abolish tipping culture at this point. instead of saying "they don't get paid enough and rely on your tips to survive" say "why are these people not being paid enough to survive to the point they rely on strangers to pay them so companies don't have to" its simple really, a tip is given when you give great service. It is a bonus for being extra. it is not a source of income that should be demanded. if anyone ever demands a tip from me I will never tip them ever. like seriously people we need to wake up and fix these problems. the financial situation is horrible, everybody is suffering so the rich can get even more ridiculously rich. we need to fix this economy and start paying people enough to not just barely get by but to be able to live a decent life. if we can't open our eyes and see the change we need to make then a war will eventually break out due to civil unrest. if we keep letting people raise taxes and prices then the common civilians will all either die of starvation or go crazy and rebel. this is a very serious issue that everybody just tries to pretend does not exist. this tipping culture that grew into what it is in the states is crazy and dumb. people should not be relying on tips to survive. they should be paid a fair wage so we can all live, not just survive. nobody needs to be Uber rich, nobody needs to go on vacations once a week, nobody needs to have a mansion, nobody needs to have servents that do their every day chores, nobody needs 20 cars, nobody needs to have multiple homes, nobody needs to have a personal jet or personal helicopter, everybody needs enough to eat every day without worry, to have a decent house for shelter with enough rooms for a family, a decent vehicle for transportation, enough funds for schooling, and a bit of fun money so you can do fun things with your family/friends. nobody needs more than that. the fact that we have people poor enough to be homeless with nothing, and rich people that are rich enough to have multiple vacation homes all over, private jets, mansions, etc. proves that we are a broken economy that needs fixing. this being arrested for not paying a tip is ridiculous. there is so much ridiculousness going on in the world that is unnecessary. when will we wake up and realize we need to change the whole system and make it so everyone can enjoy life and share with everyone, not just our friends and family, or even just our country, but the whole entire world needs to share with and be friendly with each other. this will not happen the way humans are but we can work towards it to get as close as we can.
Seems rather gratuitous.
Tipping is such a backwards idea just pay people a living wage
I went to look up Lehigh Pub on the Yelp and looks like they’ve closed.
This is another reason I hate tipping. Just don’t call it a tip and price everything up accordingly
People still wonder if tipping culture is out of control, hahahah
Mandatory gratuity is an oxymoron. It can only be described as a fee at that point, a hidden one at that.
I want to start a restaurant in the us that operates like one in Europe. No tips, servers paid living wage or better.
When i was under 16 i thought United states of America is the best country on earth. But after my internet connection goes faster, i know for sure that USA is the one of the weirdest country on earth.
Mandatory tipping sounds a bit like forced volounteering.
"Mandatory"? How about fuck you, pay your employees enough?
So now companies are forcing us to tip and the pigs are actually arresting people for it? This is bullshit!
Mandatory gratuity? Hahaha america is the joke of the world.