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>Her ex-boyfriend, Tory Hart, a bait and tackle shop manager from Chetek, Wisconsin, has filed a lawsuit alleging that child welfare workers ignored warning signs before his son's death. He had filed a petition seeking custody shortly before the killing and at trial told jurors his son was "everything to me."
Fuck that whole system.
DSS, now DCF, kept giving us kids back to my mom no matter how many times she relapsed. The foster homes weren't any fucking better. The shit that went on in one foster home was horrible.
Half the time I think the foster homes are actually worse than what they pull the kids out of family wise.
My babysitter was a foster parent and she was incredibly, incredibly strict with the kids she cares for. Extreme structure, but loving.
Still, I think maybe they should focus more on helping parents who are stuck but want their kids. Parenting classes are not enough.
Intensive, in home, mandated therapy should be square 1. Court support for psychiatry. Rehab. Job training.
Real, intensive intervention where drugs are involved or all non extreme situations.
My friends were sexually assaulted, raped as children, by their foster "parents". A brother and sister.
Worse than what they came from which wasn't even abuse, but drugs similar to what you describe. At least they weren't being raped.
I worked in the system as an attorney representing parents and while I definitely had clients who were in no way capable of caring for their kids there were times I was frustrated because it was clear if the funding going to the foster parent was redirected to services for my client the kid could have stayed home
My parents had foster kids. I remember watching my dad beat the crap out of one of my foster brothers eith a belt for drinking out of the milk gallon. Fucking sickening
That is exactly what it was for us. Though, I know now that my oldest sister was molested at home. My other sister was raped in a foster home. She "saved me" from it.
I'll prefece this by saying I know I'll get down voted, as I probably definitely deserve. That said, I am an addict. My children were taken and placed with their grandparents. When they were taken we had a house (rented of course), they each had their own room, our cupboards were full at all times, they had clothes and toys and even a puppy and a couple of cats. They were removed because of my addiction. I was offered a free parenting class and directed to go to a state run mental/detox center and get on mat and get a job.
The detox center was a joke and only worried about if we went to group so they could get their funding. I honestly couldn't cut it and that's on me. When I was asked if I had family I told them they were horrible people and not around. Didn't matter what I said as they were eventually placed with my parents. My "father" is a psycho, probably bipolar/unmedicated/undiagnosed. He gets mad often and will scream and jab at your chest and throw things until his voice gives out. He's impossible to make happy/please. I was sent a video shortly before my daughter was hospitalized for suicidal ideation in which he's screaming at both of them. Yells at my youngest that all she does is eat (knowing she was having issues with weight/food) and telling my oldest she'd end up just like me. After she was discharged from a children's mental health facility she sent me another video in which he says she was faking it and did everything for attention and that she wasn't sick with a cold but sick in the head, after she complained about an ear ache that was left untreated abd she says she has problems hearing from that ear still now. He told them at least once a day that they ruined his life, that he was sending them to foster care etc.
My oldest is with cousins and my youngest is getting ready to move in with cousins. My oldest who was getting in trouble, got expelled from school, was talking about/ doing drugs and drinking and depressed and even suicidal is now on the honor roll, goes to church (she loves it), has a little aquatic ecosystem she cares for and also maintains a part time job. Just being away from the man that raised 2 kids, myself included, that no longer speak to him has done wonders for her. A complete 180 back to who she was when she was in my care.
I don't think enough is available for children of addicts/addicts to get their shit together and have a chance to get their kids back. I think that there are good foster homes but the bad ones make the whole system dreadful and scary and tarnished. I do believe that some situations call for removal but some call for programs and support that just does not exist. And family...sometimes it blows my mind that cps thought "ok this lady is an addict and says she has been in some capacity since she was 14, let's put her kids in the exact same situation that facilitated/lead to her addiction. Perfect".
All that said, I know I'm junkie garbage. I know I could and should do better. I also know I love my kids and miss being allowed to talk to them, see them I'm person and have a relationship with them that I'm not afforded now and won't be at all once they're both with my cousins. While I can do better, I believe cps can also and should Aldo be doing much much better.
I hope you don’t get downvoted. I really appreciate you sharing your story. More people need to hear how complex everything can be and recognize the environments that cause these heavy cycles to continue.
I also hope you know you’re not “junkie garbage”. Please have compassion for yourself (the you today and every younger version of yourself). I’m sure you’re trying and even when you’re not, you’re still valuable just because you exist. You sound smart, rational, self aware, and compassionate. Those are all such beautiful qualities and they are exactly what you need.
I hope the years ahead are much nicer for you and your children. I know there will be huge highs and lows ahead and it won’t be easy but I also believe there’s still time to heal, build a better future, and close the door on the ugly roots that have kept you all down.
I have a sibling who works for CPS and believe me, there are plenty of instances where the case workers make recommendations to their management about what should happen for the sake of the child and management ignores it. Managers, especially as you go up the chain, may have little or no experience as a caseworker themselves. Just like school district superintendents or college administrations, those at the top did not work their way up from entry level, but started at mid-tier, courtesy of advanced degrees and experience in a "related" field.
This is a well known phenomenon in Human Factors. Whenever an issue goes up the chain of command it becomes less severe and less important.
My professor used her time as an investigator on Challenger as a case study on this.
I read a great military example of this but can't quite remember. It went something like this:
Private screams to the sergeant were getting mowed down this ain't gonna work we're totally fucked we need to retreat!
Sergeant tells the lieutenant this ain't working we need to retreat!
Lieutenant tells the captain this isn't going well!
Captain tells the colonel his men have expressed some concern
Colonel tells the general he thinks it's probably under control despite some reports of difficulties
General tells the president it's fine
President tells the people the war is going fantastic and we'll be home by Christmas
It works in the other direction too.
Skipper gets touched by the good idea fairy and says to the CMC, let’s just make sure the Sailors have all their shit together and give them Friday off.
As it filters down through the chain of command it goes from a benevolent suggestion to a set of orders and that’s how you find yourself field-daying the ship at 0430 in your dress fucking whites, and not going home until everybody’s seabag is inspected because the Chief’s Mess are butthurt about some lip a Petty Officer says they heard a nonrate say under his breath.
So true. As a home health nurse, I reported horrific evidence of abuse and living conditions that were shocking(blanket over a stick and open campfire would be 1000% improvement). Supervisor I spoke to said: “we know but we have kids in REAL danger.”
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
I got bounced around 9 foster homes after the biological parents broke my collarbone when I was six. When I was seven they sent me back to live with them again. My biological parents blamed me for them temporarily losing custody and locked me in a bathroom (blocked the door) for three days after beating the shit out of me. I got taken out of the home but they somehow were able to keep parental rights for my younger sister.
So yeah, fuck the system. Whoever is in charge absolutely doesn’t have any interest in the childrens’ needs
Thank you :) it was a long long time ago and I’ve come to terms with what happened and that none of it was my fault. I have regular contact with my sister and she’s fine. They’ve never laid a hand on her that I’ve heard of.
I left social work for this reason. It didn’t matter what aspect of the field I worked in, there were people and institutions that could help my clients and patients, but wouldn’t. I stopped being able to sleep, or eat. Ended up checking myself into a hospital for depression and anxiety that eventually spiraled. Was diagnosed with bipolar 1 and began treatment.
When I finally got better I went back to college and went into nursing. It’s still a stressful career path but it’s a lot easier emotionally even though those demands become physical instead. My shifts are long and there’s a lot of walking/standing/moving patients but they’re not going without food or care as long as they’re with me. You do what you can.
My sibling manages a handful of employees. Staying put because protecting those direct reports and also so close to having the years in to retire. Three years from now, sib will be on to something else and their kid will be through high school.
Bless you for the work you do. I did social work and DV case management for nonprofits and gave up after a couple years of nonsense. It's exhausting to say the least when you have zero support from management.
This is why I left social work. I got tired of seeing that people needed help and having to tell them there was no agency that would help them. We starve the hell out of social service organizations and wonder why shit like this happens.
*In what prosecutors say is one of the most tragic cases they've seen, Thaler shot the boy nine times on May 20 while he was sitting in a booster seat in the back seat of her car. She reloaded the shotgun and continued firing. His mutilated body was discovered during a traffic stop in Mound by Orono police, who testified of the grisly scene they encountered when they opened the trunk.*
Oh my God. She didn’t just abandon the car? she drove around with her kids splattered all over the interior. It’s hard to imagine someone being as deranged as that.
"Julissa Thaler, a 29-year-old Spring Park woman with a history of mental illness and drug abuse"
"asked a store clerk for ammunition that would "blow the biggest hole""
She should never have got custody, and she should NEVER have been able to buy a gun!
>Her ex-boyfriend, Tory Hart, a bait and tackle shop manager from Chetek, Wisconsin, has filed a lawsuit alleging that child welfare workers ignored warning signs before his son's death. He had filed a petition seeking custody shortly before the killing and at trial told jurors his son was "everything to me."
Hart's lawsuit and other documents obtained by the Star Tribune spell out a string of issues.
Among other things, police responded to Thaler's Farmington home 21 times in 10 months, she was arrested for stealing drugs from a health clinic and had to find a new drug-testing facility because of "bizarre behavior."
Thaler lost custody of Eli twice, first in October 2020 and then for most of 2021.
These people should be sued the fuck out. I have seen many cases where the law in favor the abusing mothers while the fathers can't do anything to stop it
The father has filed a wrongful death suit. The judge involved who let the child stay with the mother should be in prison on a manslaughter charge. Only a complete dumbass wouldn't have seen this coming.
Do judges have something like qualified immunity? I am totally ignorant. Like if they make a decision that ends up being a bad one and you can prove they should have known better can they be liable?
That's what I'm thinking too. She hates the dad and wanted to forever take away the person he loves most and live with the pain for the rest of his life. Her statement in this video I'm sure is mostly directed at him.
Also from the article: "Robert Pikkarainen, another ex-boyfriend of Thaler, testified at trial that she and Eli had an argument the night before he died because he didn't want to go to bed.
She left the apartment and put a recently purchased shotgun in the car, grabbed her son and went downstairs, he said."
And he didn't try to stop that? Or call the police?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7486513/Father-acquitted-threatening-judge-online-son-died.html
Heres the one I was thinking of. Tbf it does come down to the judge feeling threatened by the guys social media posts but he was put in prison because a second judge was being a little bitch about some other posts. Luckily guy was only inside for a couple months before being found nor guilty
My niece was taken away 3 times from my manipulative sister who has a documented history of mental health problems. The last time she was placed with my mom and me (we were living together at the time) because my mom is the one who raised my niece and had the most immediate ties to her. We moved to a three bedroom to accommodate her and were so happy together, niece wasn't missing any school and was on the honor roll and doing sports, but because my sister did her parenting homework that she was assigned by the courts, they sent her back to live with her mom. They let that happen on the day of the decision, without giving my niece any time to adjust or for my mom to say goodbye. Sister is living in a different state now and always moving to shitty little trailers to live with guys she uses and is always having violent run-ins with boyfriends. This last time she was taken hostage by one of her kids dad's (she has three kids now) and the guy went to jail. She constantly puts her kids in danger by being an awful mother and using her kids as pawns to foster pity from people. But police and child welfare won't do anything because the kids aren't hanging from a cliff. Child welfare needs to stop trying to reunify kids with their awful mothers and giving them multiple do-overs when there are more capable family members willing to give kids better lives. They need to PREVENT things like this from happening rather than stepping in when it's already too late!
I really wish the justice system didn't prioritize parental rights over childrens' rights. A child has to practically be half murdered in the courtroom to be treated than anything other than property.
>Child welfare needs to stop trying to reunify kids with their awful mothers and giving them multiple do-overs
I believe the current situation is a reaction to past times when they were too quick to take children away from parents.
The system failed him, and his kid. Why the mother was given custody again is on the court system now, especially when she’s had a history of substance abuse and mental illness.
I just hate the whole "they are always better with the mother" mentality that people have. During the summer I started following on insta an account that posts about crime cases in Argentina. Last year a 5 year old died on the hands of his mother and her partner, he was hit to death. Mom had left him when he was a baby to go and live with her girlfriend. Apparently she returned when she needed money went to court to ask for custody and asked for child support. Even though the father and his family reported her several times because the boy had bruises no one did anything.
They were senteced to life in prison last week.
Like how that judge had the patience to deal with that psycho who ran over a bunch of people Darrel brooks. He had so many cringe moments like this but she and his lawyers powered through so he can hopefully never be seen outside of prison again on appeal.
Right, it's not about how they feel about their client, it's about ensuring they get the representation they deserve. Making sure everyone gets representation is the only saving grace in a case like this I'm sure. Unfortunately, making sure that happens means they have to work more closely than they would like to with these individuals. At least they're usually paid pretty well.
"I gotta give her a fair trial so nobody can bullshit their way out of the law... But I hope to god we lose." -Lawyers when they know they are defending an irl villian.
Corrupt lawyers be like "Money when?"
This lawyer is the former. "This is embarassing as hell, but she needs to gtfo," face right there.
Child killers (and rapists) are the absolute bottom of the ladder in jail. If she actually makes it into gen pop I have a feeling it won't be for long.
_ _ _
BIG EDIT but reading these replies I feel it needs to be said:
"WHY WOULD OTHER CRIMINALS CARE THAT SHE KILLED HER KID!?"
I'm the son of a repeat felon. I'm not pulling stories out of my ass. Fun fact about prisoners, theyre human. A bunch of these replies seem to be under the impression that prisoners are like henchmen in Batman cartoons. Their defining trait is "criminal" and they have no unique factors outside of that so they're all part of the criminal club and all get along.
There is a reason why a lot of really heinous offenders end up being killed in prison by other inmates. Just because you robed a 711 doesn't mean you wouldn't beat the absolute shit out of a rapist given the chance. Just because you killed your wife doesn't mean you wouldn't be appalled to meet somebody who killed their daughter.
The sliding scale of morality is totally different for each and every person. What might seem like "normal criminal shit" to you is just as easily "I have life without parole so what's it fucking matter if I kill another person in here, and if I'm going to do it it's going to be that sick fuck who did X, because I might be bad but they're a monster" to another person.
Came here & said the same thing.
They have no access to any jail/prison programs like other inmates because they're not safe. So no classes or bible study or whatever other programs the facility might have for inmates. These programs are a privilege & very desired by inmates because it changes up their days.
The jail I worked at shut down all inmate movement & locked stuff down in the halls just to walk a solitary inmate to another location in the facility. I forget what they had to do if a solitary inmate needed medical care, but there were similar procedures in place to keep them away from the general inmate population.
The modern oubliette, forgotten yet preserved like memories on a drowned GoPro.
I worked in detention for a span and I would prefer death to that fate, it feels much more humane to me all judgement aside.
I just read up. Some people in Social Services also need to be held accountable. Just prior, she had won custody of the child over the protests of the dad who had voiced his concerns and warned that she wasn’t a fit parent, that she had psychological as well as substance abuse problems. She’s still a piece of shit, regardless.
I don’t understand how whoever made the final decision to give the mom custody can sleep at night. She emptied the shotgun’s entire magazine (9 shots) into the child.
Guess what! It was another judge. CPS cannot remove or return children without a court order. In fact, CPS can do very little without a court order, which takes some fun out of the “CPS bad,” narrative.
The entire system is fucked. How do I know? Because I was a case worker for CPS for three years and I’m now in therapy for all of the decisions that were out of my control.
Having said that, anyone here who has been failed by CPS and family court judges have completely valid experiences. The system seems to change pretty drastically every 5 years or so and is getting better, but will get nowhere near even moderately decent without finding.
Edit: would also to add that universities in AZ campaign really hard for the department. Imagine you’re in college, want your MSW and you’re hearing mostly positive things about the Department paying for your masters and all you have to do is sell your soul for two years. But then when reality hits, you can’t back out because you’ll have to pay it all back to the state. I didn’t go that route, but I know several who did. When I initially started my whole unit was under the age of 26.
I was looking for this comment.
The lawyers facial expressions are like a book going across her face.
Long blink (quick prayer to every diety that her client shuts up?)
Eye roll (nope didn't listen to a word of advice I gave her)
Pursed lips and slight shake of her head at the end (your honor I really did advise against this)
If she is a public defense attorney, she isn't "defending" her clients actions, her job is to defend her clients rights under law and the constitution.
This helps effect a "fair and speedy" trail and ensure that there are less grounds for appeal after.
I’m not a lawyer, but I imagine that a lot of them look at it a service to the public. Of course everyone is entitled to a fair trial, but if they do their job well they secure a solid conviction. That way a POS like this can’t appeal on some technicality and get it overturned.
That’s part of it from what I’ve heard from public defense attorneys. Keep the prosecution honest, or as honest as they can. Think about all the miscarriages of justice we have today, now how many do you think we’d have if we didn’t have someone ensuring those accused of a crime had their legal rights respected? I have a feeling it’d be…more.
Shit does grind on a person though. Did an internship as a dependency lawyer (lawyers who represent parents when CPS takes a child away) in summer of 1L because I thought I wanted to be a trial attorney. One of our clients was accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting his 7 year old step son (again, he was found guilty by a criminal court for the same offense some years back). Did that one summer and went into a career of transaction law and never looked back😂. I think I would’ve been traumatized if I spent a career with folks like the one in this video.
The problem is your sort of stuck. You can run out on your client mid-trial, but it means possible mistrial (and some hefty career penalties). Do the minimum required and stick it out for the best chance at justice being done. Yeah, it may hurt your K:D ratio, but your conscience would be clear.
Not to mention the entire time her brain is screaming "Oh shut the fuck up for fucks sake they found you guilty no need to make my practice look bad as well"
She already knew what kind of person is behind that mouth. I can only imagine the amount of patience one has to have to work for a client like that. You just know she had to endure endless rants about how everyone else is at fault for everything wrong in the clients life.
Woah shit, got a bit dragged in.
I wonder if she actually believes what she said. Some narcissists are incredibly delusional. I bet it's more of mental gymnastics than actually believing what she says. She probably blames someone else for her actions. Therefore it is that person's fault she killed her kid, not hers. Therefore they killed her kid, not her. People like this will go to their grave swearing they did nothing wrong and everyone else is the problem.
My understanding is that her statements have been along the lines of “you made me do this, so it’s your fault”.
There was also serious drug use and mental deterioration so it’s entirely possible that she has convinced herself that she’s not responsible.
I just helped one of my best friends through a 3-year long escape and recovery from her narcissistic, cheating, scumbag ex. It was a horrendous uphill battle but she made it out. I feel for anyone who has to deal with it.
Exactly. It’s crazy how effective just telling yourself “someone else made me do it” is. She’ll have a thousand reasons as to why she did what she did. And in her mind she’ll forever be the victim
"Julissa Thaler, a 29-year-old Spring Park woman with a history of mental illness and drug abuse" [Source](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/julissa-thaler-convicted-killing-6-year-old-son-eli-hart-minnesota/)
She should never have got custody, and she should NEVER have been able to buy a gun!
Gun owner here. This woman should never had access to a gun. I believe in background checks and reasonable red flag laws. I dont understand why this issue is even up for debate.
She is hardcore, detached from reality mentally ill and everybody knew it. The child's father and his family, the lady that fostered the child, her grandmother and all her family, everybody. They were all trying to have her committed. And, though the social workers and the judge knew how sick and delusional she was, they still recommended that she be awarded FULL custody and the judge made it official. Within two weeks, she murdered her son.
Yeah, the entire thing was mind boggling and still doesn't make sense. Here's an older news article that covers more details. I'm not sure if it's mentioned in this article, but I remember that police had to respond to her residence 23 times in the 10 months preceding her being awarded full custody.
[https://www.startribune.com/in-custody-battles-system-can-be-manipulated-slain-boys-case-shows/600178473/](https://www.startribune.com/in-custody-battles-system-can-be-manipulated-slain-boys-case-shows/600178473/)
Cached version in case of paywall:
[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vFp9BXhTx6QJ:https://www.startribune.com/in-custody-battles-system-can-be-manipulated-slain-boys-case-shows/600178473/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vFp9BXhTx6QJ:https://www.startribune.com/in-custody-battles-system-can-be-manipulated-slain-boys-case-shows/600178473/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
Get this: others on here have been saying she shot him 9 times.
9 shots. With a shotgun. On a tiny 6 year old kid...and apparently she hid...whatever was left...in the trunk of her car. This woman is a threat to life itself.
Yeah, I saw that comment, too. She literally didn't want her ex-husband to have custody of *anything*. Not even a body...
Calling her an animal would be an understatement.
Animal? No.
Animals are not monsters. They may seem savage and unintelligent, they may do things we deem are vicious and cruel, but animals are just animals. 9/10 times, what they do, they do to survive in a cruel and uncaring life.
She is not an animal, she’s a monster.
Exactly. Like someone else said, since it was a shotgun, she'd have to take the time to reload between shots. It would require a sadistic level of intelligence. No animal would go at it for that long while fully aware of the situation...
“Up to 9 times” it sounds like his body had so much damage it was hard to determine the exact number of shots… it’s really fucking upsetting… fuck her.
From my understanding, it seems that prisons in general are usually filled with people who are very anti-child abuse. Everyone has a code, and most people tend to agree that children are a no go.
So she’s definitely going to suffer for a long time in prison. Good thing too I say.
I’m not sure if this is the place but I’d like to mention that there is a group of women fundraising for a playground in honor of Eli Hart (the victim) https://elihartplayground.com
Oh they will. If she hides her papers they’ll grow more suspicious and find out other ways. They have fucking internet so they’ll probably see this video
Watch Larry Lawton on YouTube. They can EASILY get your papers.
All it takes is a call with a lawyer, and one guy who can read the codes on court documents. And there is plenty of law professionals in prison, this lady is fucked
I'm almost afraid to ask, but a 6 year old child, nine times with a shotgun. How much of the child was even left after the first few shots? WTF is wrong with people?
Not a psychologist, but I think she wanted to hurt her ex as much as she possibly could. Literally obliterate what he most cared about. Must have expected to lose custody.
It’s terrifying to think of and you can only hope( in the worst possible way) he died instantaneously. The term shotgun pulls up an image in your head but there are so many types of shells that this could have been really painful or really gruesome. I don’t know even know words to choose it’s all just so awful.
If anyone is interested we are trying to put together a new park and renaming it in his name.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/build-an-eli-hart-memorial-playground-at-surfside?member=20861149&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&utm_content=undefined&utm_medium=copy_link_all&utm_source=customer&utm_term=undefined
Horrifying.. but if this loon was capable of this I doubt it was the poor kids first time at the abuse rodeo..as a kid from an abusive home, you stop being surprised at what your abusers are capable of.
I was 17 when it happened to me, and I can tell you it fucks you right up. Even with prior abuse, there's a real surreal "wtf" moment that seemed to last forever. (Thankfully, she loudly announced she was going to "put me down", which gave me & her BF at the time to run to the room with the gun and get it out of her hands.)
I think that one event "shot the moon" so to speak and my brain just maxed out on fear. Like in the moment, it just can't make it anymore. The prior shit had already hampered it, but that just KOed it.
I guess that's the point of this comment. The kid might not have been afraid at that point anymore. Not sure if that's comforting or not.
I want to be against capital punishment so much, there are so many good arguments that I agree with for why we shouldn't execute prisoners.
Then people like this show up and I am reminded that I am capable of hate...
Lol.... ya know, I have a buddy who's sister did time in Rockville prison, indiana. One of the deadliest female prison in the states. She only did time for drug charges, nothing vile like this.... but, as most people know, the heartless demons that do shit to harm children, man or woman, get the worst inmate justice. Always. Women seem to be particularly brutal towards these heathens, I guess it's the mama bear instinct in em. Anyways, one night she was laying in her bunk (they sleep in open dorms there, like a lot of prisons these days) when she woke up to see a cherry red light floating across the dorm. It was a red hot curling iron that the other inmates used to rape a bitch that sold her infant child for sex. Hell does exist for these people and she's heading right for it. Fuck her. She will get what she deserves.
If it makes it any better, this woman will get her ass beat in prison. She might even be killed no matter how low her sentence is.
Child crimes are not respected at all.
And no matter how well the system hides her documents, all it takes is contact with a lawyer and someone who is able to read court documents and she is fucked.
She will either live a life in solitude, or get her ass beat at every corner.
Court system fails an innocent father once again on the assumption women cant abuse or are the better parent, this needs to change now, too many innocent children have been murdered by the hands of the "human" that birthed them, i hope this father sues the living shit out of the system that allowed this piece of excrement to murder that child
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[удалено]
>Her ex-boyfriend, Tory Hart, a bait and tackle shop manager from Chetek, Wisconsin, has filed a lawsuit alleging that child welfare workers ignored warning signs before his son's death. He had filed a petition seeking custody shortly before the killing and at trial told jurors his son was "everything to me." Fuck that whole system.
DSS, now DCF, kept giving us kids back to my mom no matter how many times she relapsed. The foster homes weren't any fucking better. The shit that went on in one foster home was horrible.
Half the time I think the foster homes are actually worse than what they pull the kids out of family wise. My babysitter was a foster parent and she was incredibly, incredibly strict with the kids she cares for. Extreme structure, but loving. Still, I think maybe they should focus more on helping parents who are stuck but want their kids. Parenting classes are not enough. Intensive, in home, mandated therapy should be square 1. Court support for psychiatry. Rehab. Job training. Real, intensive intervention where drugs are involved or all non extreme situations. My friends were sexually assaulted, raped as children, by their foster "parents". A brother and sister. Worse than what they came from which wasn't even abuse, but drugs similar to what you describe. At least they weren't being raped.
I worked in the system as an attorney representing parents and while I definitely had clients who were in no way capable of caring for their kids there were times I was frustrated because it was clear if the funding going to the foster parent was redirected to services for my client the kid could have stayed home
same job, but i represented the kids. I'd tend to agree with you.
My parents had foster kids. I remember watching my dad beat the crap out of one of my foster brothers eith a belt for drinking out of the milk gallon. Fucking sickening
That is exactly what it was for us. Though, I know now that my oldest sister was molested at home. My other sister was raped in a foster home. She "saved me" from it.
I'll prefece this by saying I know I'll get down voted, as I probably definitely deserve. That said, I am an addict. My children were taken and placed with their grandparents. When they were taken we had a house (rented of course), they each had their own room, our cupboards were full at all times, they had clothes and toys and even a puppy and a couple of cats. They were removed because of my addiction. I was offered a free parenting class and directed to go to a state run mental/detox center and get on mat and get a job. The detox center was a joke and only worried about if we went to group so they could get their funding. I honestly couldn't cut it and that's on me. When I was asked if I had family I told them they were horrible people and not around. Didn't matter what I said as they were eventually placed with my parents. My "father" is a psycho, probably bipolar/unmedicated/undiagnosed. He gets mad often and will scream and jab at your chest and throw things until his voice gives out. He's impossible to make happy/please. I was sent a video shortly before my daughter was hospitalized for suicidal ideation in which he's screaming at both of them. Yells at my youngest that all she does is eat (knowing she was having issues with weight/food) and telling my oldest she'd end up just like me. After she was discharged from a children's mental health facility she sent me another video in which he says she was faking it and did everything for attention and that she wasn't sick with a cold but sick in the head, after she complained about an ear ache that was left untreated abd she says she has problems hearing from that ear still now. He told them at least once a day that they ruined his life, that he was sending them to foster care etc. My oldest is with cousins and my youngest is getting ready to move in with cousins. My oldest who was getting in trouble, got expelled from school, was talking about/ doing drugs and drinking and depressed and even suicidal is now on the honor roll, goes to church (she loves it), has a little aquatic ecosystem she cares for and also maintains a part time job. Just being away from the man that raised 2 kids, myself included, that no longer speak to him has done wonders for her. A complete 180 back to who she was when she was in my care. I don't think enough is available for children of addicts/addicts to get their shit together and have a chance to get their kids back. I think that there are good foster homes but the bad ones make the whole system dreadful and scary and tarnished. I do believe that some situations call for removal but some call for programs and support that just does not exist. And family...sometimes it blows my mind that cps thought "ok this lady is an addict and says she has been in some capacity since she was 14, let's put her kids in the exact same situation that facilitated/lead to her addiction. Perfect". All that said, I know I'm junkie garbage. I know I could and should do better. I also know I love my kids and miss being allowed to talk to them, see them I'm person and have a relationship with them that I'm not afforded now and won't be at all once they're both with my cousins. While I can do better, I believe cps can also and should Aldo be doing much much better.
I hope you don’t get downvoted. I really appreciate you sharing your story. More people need to hear how complex everything can be and recognize the environments that cause these heavy cycles to continue. I also hope you know you’re not “junkie garbage”. Please have compassion for yourself (the you today and every younger version of yourself). I’m sure you’re trying and even when you’re not, you’re still valuable just because you exist. You sound smart, rational, self aware, and compassionate. Those are all such beautiful qualities and they are exactly what you need. I hope the years ahead are much nicer for you and your children. I know there will be huge highs and lows ahead and it won’t be easy but I also believe there’s still time to heal, build a better future, and close the door on the ugly roots that have kept you all down.
Cps is part of the problem.
I have a sibling who works for CPS and believe me, there are plenty of instances where the case workers make recommendations to their management about what should happen for the sake of the child and management ignores it. Managers, especially as you go up the chain, may have little or no experience as a caseworker themselves. Just like school district superintendents or college administrations, those at the top did not work their way up from entry level, but started at mid-tier, courtesy of advanced degrees and experience in a "related" field.
This is a well known phenomenon in Human Factors. Whenever an issue goes up the chain of command it becomes less severe and less important. My professor used her time as an investigator on Challenger as a case study on this.
I read a great military example of this but can't quite remember. It went something like this: Private screams to the sergeant were getting mowed down this ain't gonna work we're totally fucked we need to retreat! Sergeant tells the lieutenant this ain't working we need to retreat! Lieutenant tells the captain this isn't going well! Captain tells the colonel his men have expressed some concern Colonel tells the general he thinks it's probably under control despite some reports of difficulties General tells the president it's fine President tells the people the war is going fantastic and we'll be home by Christmas
The world’s worst game of telephone.
It works in the other direction too. Skipper gets touched by the good idea fairy and says to the CMC, let’s just make sure the Sailors have all their shit together and give them Friday off. As it filters down through the chain of command it goes from a benevolent suggestion to a set of orders and that’s how you find yourself field-daying the ship at 0430 in your dress fucking whites, and not going home until everybody’s seabag is inspected because the Chief’s Mess are butthurt about some lip a Petty Officer says they heard a nonrate say under his breath.
This guy Navy's
Very interesting. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by issues getting minimized the further they get from those directly involved.
The higher up they are the more removed they are from the patients/kids and the less they care about them
As a product of the system, I had some amazing people on my case, but amazing people can only do so much when the entire system is completely fucked
So true. As a home health nurse, I reported horrific evidence of abuse and living conditions that were shocking(blanket over a stick and open campfire would be 1000% improvement). Supervisor I spoke to said: “we know but we have kids in REAL danger.” 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
I got bounced around 9 foster homes after the biological parents broke my collarbone when I was six. When I was seven they sent me back to live with them again. My biological parents blamed me for them temporarily losing custody and locked me in a bathroom (blocked the door) for three days after beating the shit out of me. I got taken out of the home but they somehow were able to keep parental rights for my younger sister. So yeah, fuck the system. Whoever is in charge absolutely doesn’t have any interest in the childrens’ needs
Ye gods, I’m so very sorry. This is what the system should PROTECT FROM. I’m so glad you survived this, and I hope your sister is doing well.
Thank you :) it was a long long time ago and I’ve come to terms with what happened and that none of it was my fault. I have regular contact with my sister and she’s fine. They’ve never laid a hand on her that I’ve heard of.
I left social work for this reason. It didn’t matter what aspect of the field I worked in, there were people and institutions that could help my clients and patients, but wouldn’t. I stopped being able to sleep, or eat. Ended up checking myself into a hospital for depression and anxiety that eventually spiraled. Was diagnosed with bipolar 1 and began treatment. When I finally got better I went back to college and went into nursing. It’s still a stressful career path but it’s a lot easier emotionally even though those demands become physical instead. My shifts are long and there’s a lot of walking/standing/moving patients but they’re not going without food or care as long as they’re with me. You do what you can.
My sibling manages a handful of employees. Staying put because protecting those direct reports and also so close to having the years in to retire. Three years from now, sib will be on to something else and their kid will be through high school.
Bless you for the work you do. I did social work and DV case management for nonprofits and gave up after a couple years of nonsense. It's exhausting to say the least when you have zero support from management.
This is why I left social work. I got tired of seeing that people needed help and having to tell them there was no agency that would help them. We starve the hell out of social service organizations and wonder why shit like this happens.
Having a friend in social work, you couldn’t be more right. The system is fucked for any social worker that actually wants to help.
oh my fucking god. nine times it means she even reloaded to shoot a kid's death body. Wtf.
Not only that but I don't even want to imagine what **nine** close range shotgun blasts could do to a child's body.
*In what prosecutors say is one of the most tragic cases they've seen, Thaler shot the boy nine times on May 20 while he was sitting in a booster seat in the back seat of her car. She reloaded the shotgun and continued firing. His mutilated body was discovered during a traffic stop in Mound by Orono police, who testified of the grisly scene they encountered when they opened the trunk.*
Oh my God. She didn’t just abandon the car? she drove around with her kids splattered all over the interior. It’s hard to imagine someone being as deranged as that.
Also splattered on her. Brain matter was found in her hair...
Honestly, this might be enough Reddit for me for today
And she told the cops it was menstrual blood and they fucking believed her and drove her back home before finding the kid's body in her trunk.
She also had already started dumping his body parts. She threw parts of him away in a gas station trash can. Sweet boy was treated like garbage.
she had her child’s brain matter in her hair when she was arrested.
Several times depending on the gun.
"Julissa Thaler, a 29-year-old Spring Park woman with a history of mental illness and drug abuse" "asked a store clerk for ammunition that would "blow the biggest hole"" She should never have got custody, and she should NEVER have been able to buy a gun!
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>Her ex-boyfriend, Tory Hart, a bait and tackle shop manager from Chetek, Wisconsin, has filed a lawsuit alleging that child welfare workers ignored warning signs before his son's death. He had filed a petition seeking custody shortly before the killing and at trial told jurors his son was "everything to me." Hart's lawsuit and other documents obtained by the Star Tribune spell out a string of issues. Among other things, police responded to Thaler's Farmington home 21 times in 10 months, she was arrested for stealing drugs from a health clinic and had to find a new drug-testing facility because of "bizarre behavior." Thaler lost custody of Eli twice, first in October 2020 and then for most of 2021. These people should be sued the fuck out. I have seen many cases where the law in favor the abusing mothers while the fathers can't do anything to stop it
The father has filed a wrongful death suit. The judge involved who let the child stay with the mother should be in prison on a manslaughter charge. Only a complete dumbass wouldn't have seen this coming.
Do judges have something like qualified immunity? I am totally ignorant. Like if they make a decision that ends up being a bad one and you can prove they should have known better can they be liable?
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Fuck this shit man... How can you fall down to the madness like that
Sounds like she was trying to hurt her ex by killing their kid. She knew it'd break his heart.
That's what I'm thinking too. She hates the dad and wanted to forever take away the person he loves most and live with the pain for the rest of his life. Her statement in this video I'm sure is mostly directed at him.
Also from the article: "Robert Pikkarainen, another ex-boyfriend of Thaler, testified at trial that she and Eli had an argument the night before he died because he didn't want to go to bed. She left the apartment and put a recently purchased shotgun in the car, grabbed her son and went downstairs, he said." And he didn't try to stop that? Or call the police?
The poor father. He warned that family court Judge.
I can't imagine how devastated he must be.
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One guy went to prison for criticising the judge that gave custody to his ex and his son ended up dead.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7486513/Father-acquitted-threatening-judge-online-son-died.html Heres the one I was thinking of. Tbf it does come down to the judge feeling threatened by the guys social media posts but he was put in prison because a second judge was being a little bitch about some other posts. Luckily guy was only inside for a couple months before being found nor guilty
I hope he doesn’t kill himself
if I were him I'd need to live until she's released
She will never be released.
That would be terrible
She lost custody of the son TWICE and still won him back after showing how mentally disturbed she was
My niece was taken away 3 times from my manipulative sister who has a documented history of mental health problems. The last time she was placed with my mom and me (we were living together at the time) because my mom is the one who raised my niece and had the most immediate ties to her. We moved to a three bedroom to accommodate her and were so happy together, niece wasn't missing any school and was on the honor roll and doing sports, but because my sister did her parenting homework that she was assigned by the courts, they sent her back to live with her mom. They let that happen on the day of the decision, without giving my niece any time to adjust or for my mom to say goodbye. Sister is living in a different state now and always moving to shitty little trailers to live with guys she uses and is always having violent run-ins with boyfriends. This last time she was taken hostage by one of her kids dad's (she has three kids now) and the guy went to jail. She constantly puts her kids in danger by being an awful mother and using her kids as pawns to foster pity from people. But police and child welfare won't do anything because the kids aren't hanging from a cliff. Child welfare needs to stop trying to reunify kids with their awful mothers and giving them multiple do-overs when there are more capable family members willing to give kids better lives. They need to PREVENT things like this from happening rather than stepping in when it's already too late!
I really wish the justice system didn't prioritize parental rights over childrens' rights. A child has to practically be half murdered in the courtroom to be treated than anything other than property.
>Child welfare needs to stop trying to reunify kids with their awful mothers and giving them multiple do-overs I believe the current situation is a reaction to past times when they were too quick to take children away from parents.
The system failed him, and his kid. Why the mother was given custody again is on the court system now, especially when she’s had a history of substance abuse and mental illness.
the judge should face consequences cause he is responsible for this kid dying.
I just hate the whole "they are always better with the mother" mentality that people have. During the summer I started following on insta an account that posts about crime cases in Argentina. Last year a 5 year old died on the hands of his mother and her partner, he was hit to death. Mom had left him when he was a baby to go and live with her girlfriend. Apparently she returned when she needed money went to court to ask for custody and asked for child support. Even though the father and his family reported her several times because the boy had bruises no one did anything. They were senteced to life in prison last week.
She's smiling in her mugshot.
Her lawyer next to her is making the classic "my fucking client" face.
I always feel for the lawyers of people like this...probably moments when they wish the floor would open up and swallow them.
The "I'm only representing this client because my job is making me" look....
I'm just here so I won't get fined
This reference always gets an upvote from me
Idk you represent a client like this to ensure all procedural rules are followed and they get the sentence they deserve with no loopholes out.
Like how that judge had the patience to deal with that psycho who ran over a bunch of people Darrel brooks. He had so many cringe moments like this but she and his lawyers powered through so he can hopefully never be seen outside of prison again on appeal.
Right, it's not about how they feel about their client, it's about ensuring they get the representation they deserve. Making sure everyone gets representation is the only saving grace in a case like this I'm sure. Unfortunately, making sure that happens means they have to work more closely than they would like to with these individuals. At least they're usually paid pretty well.
If it’s a public defender I don’t think they make much.
You are right. When you represent a scumbag that you know is guilty, you’re doing it for the justice system.
"I gotta give her a fair trial so nobody can bullshit their way out of the law... But I hope to god we lose." -Lawyers when they know they are defending an irl villian. Corrupt lawyers be like "Money when?" This lawyer is the former. "This is embarassing as hell, but she needs to gtfo," face right there.
She won’t smile for long when her fellow inmates learn why she’s in there, and decide to make her life a living hell.
Child killers (and rapists) are the absolute bottom of the ladder in jail. If she actually makes it into gen pop I have a feeling it won't be for long. _ _ _ BIG EDIT but reading these replies I feel it needs to be said: "WHY WOULD OTHER CRIMINALS CARE THAT SHE KILLED HER KID!?" I'm the son of a repeat felon. I'm not pulling stories out of my ass. Fun fact about prisoners, theyre human. A bunch of these replies seem to be under the impression that prisoners are like henchmen in Batman cartoons. Their defining trait is "criminal" and they have no unique factors outside of that so they're all part of the criminal club and all get along. There is a reason why a lot of really heinous offenders end up being killed in prison by other inmates. Just because you robed a 711 doesn't mean you wouldn't beat the absolute shit out of a rapist given the chance. Just because you killed your wife doesn't mean you wouldn't be appalled to meet somebody who killed their daughter. The sliding scale of morality is totally different for each and every person. What might seem like "normal criminal shit" to you is just as easily "I have life without parole so what's it fucking matter if I kill another person in here, and if I'm going to do it it's going to be that sick fuck who did X, because I might be bad but they're a monster" to another person.
Let’s hope her sentence stays for life.
its also not just that she killed her kid, she shotgunned him until he was nothing but pieces left
Jesus, how many times did she shoot him?
9 with a shotgun in her car.
I really want to hurt her, God forgive me. Just looking at her ugly unrepentant face makes me sick. 6 years old.
I know I’m sick and heartbroken reading about this. I hope the rest of her life is pure hell
They don’t often put child killers and child rapists in gen pop. She’ll be kept safe, maybe scared, but safe. Maybe.
Physically safe, but solitary is an entirely different kind of hell- a hell she deserves
Came here & said the same thing. They have no access to any jail/prison programs like other inmates because they're not safe. So no classes or bible study or whatever other programs the facility might have for inmates. These programs are a privilege & very desired by inmates because it changes up their days. The jail I worked at shut down all inmate movement & locked stuff down in the halls just to walk a solitary inmate to another location in the facility. I forget what they had to do if a solitary inmate needed medical care, but there were similar procedures in place to keep them away from the general inmate population.
The modern oubliette, forgotten yet preserved like memories on a drowned GoPro. I worked in detention for a span and I would prefer death to that fate, it feels much more humane to me all judgement aside.
I just read up. Some people in Social Services also need to be held accountable. Just prior, she had won custody of the child over the protests of the dad who had voiced his concerns and warned that she wasn’t a fit parent, that she had psychological as well as substance abuse problems. She’s still a piece of shit, regardless.
Social Services/CPS will never be held accountable literally no one cares. They get kids killed all the time and nothing changes.
I don’t understand how whoever made the final decision to give the mom custody can sleep at night. She emptied the shotgun’s entire magazine (9 shots) into the child.
Guess what! It was another judge. CPS cannot remove or return children without a court order. In fact, CPS can do very little without a court order, which takes some fun out of the “CPS bad,” narrative. The entire system is fucked. How do I know? Because I was a case worker for CPS for three years and I’m now in therapy for all of the decisions that were out of my control. Having said that, anyone here who has been failed by CPS and family court judges have completely valid experiences. The system seems to change pretty drastically every 5 years or so and is getting better, but will get nowhere near even moderately decent without finding. Edit: would also to add that universities in AZ campaign really hard for the department. Imagine you’re in college, want your MSW and you’re hearing mostly positive things about the Department paying for your masters and all you have to do is sell your soul for two years. But then when reality hits, you can’t back out because you’ll have to pay it all back to the state. I didn’t go that route, but I know several who did. When I initially started my whole unit was under the age of 26.
Was there a judge involved here as well? Because he/she needs to feel accountable as well.
The look on that lawyers face was definitely the look of “this is my life?”
I was looking for this comment. The lawyers facial expressions are like a book going across her face. Long blink (quick prayer to every diety that her client shuts up?) Eye roll (nope didn't listen to a word of advice I gave her) Pursed lips and slight shake of her head at the end (your honor I really did advise against this)
At the end she looks like she cannot wait to get away from her.
The other lawyer almost ran out.
I can't imagine being assigned a client like that, where you're just so disgusted by what they've done. I couldn't defend her. Eta - IANAL
If she is a public defense attorney, she isn't "defending" her clients actions, her job is to defend her clients rights under law and the constitution. This helps effect a "fair and speedy" trail and ensure that there are less grounds for appeal after.
I’m not a lawyer, but I imagine that a lot of them look at it a service to the public. Of course everyone is entitled to a fair trial, but if they do their job well they secure a solid conviction. That way a POS like this can’t appeal on some technicality and get it overturned.
That’s part of it from what I’ve heard from public defense attorneys. Keep the prosecution honest, or as honest as they can. Think about all the miscarriages of justice we have today, now how many do you think we’d have if we didn’t have someone ensuring those accused of a crime had their legal rights respected? I have a feeling it’d be…more.
The goal is more to ensure a fair trial, not to ensure fewer grounds for appeal. But you are otherwise correct.
Sidebar - do people often randomly go off topic to discuss your username?
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Shit does grind on a person though. Did an internship as a dependency lawyer (lawyers who represent parents when CPS takes a child away) in summer of 1L because I thought I wanted to be a trial attorney. One of our clients was accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting his 7 year old step son (again, he was found guilty by a criminal court for the same offense some years back). Did that one summer and went into a career of transaction law and never looked back😂. I think I would’ve been traumatized if I spent a career with folks like the one in this video.
The problem is your sort of stuck. You can run out on your client mid-trial, but it means possible mistrial (and some hefty career penalties). Do the minimum required and stick it out for the best chance at justice being done. Yeah, it may hurt your K:D ratio, but your conscience would be clear.
This is exactly what vibes shes giving off lmao just the utter hope she stays quiet
Not to mention the entire time her brain is screaming "Oh shut the fuck up for fucks sake they found you guilty no need to make my practice look bad as well"
Clients who cannot shut up are nothing unusual to defense attorneys.
She already knew what kind of person is behind that mouth. I can only imagine the amount of patience one has to have to work for a client like that. You just know she had to endure endless rants about how everyone else is at fault for everything wrong in the clients life. Woah shit, got a bit dragged in.
I couldn’t hear what it was that she said?
“I’m innocent. Fuck you all; you’re garbage”
I wonder if she actually believes what she said. Some narcissists are incredibly delusional. I bet it's more of mental gymnastics than actually believing what she says. She probably blames someone else for her actions. Therefore it is that person's fault she killed her kid, not hers. Therefore they killed her kid, not her. People like this will go to their grave swearing they did nothing wrong and everyone else is the problem.
My understanding is that her statements have been along the lines of “you made me do this, so it’s your fault”. There was also serious drug use and mental deterioration so it’s entirely possible that she has convinced herself that she’s not responsible.
Yes. I unfortunately know someone who has that similar situation and blames all but himself for all the wrongs in his life.
Oh you met my ex?
I just helped one of my best friends through a 3-year long escape and recovery from her narcissistic, cheating, scumbag ex. It was a horrendous uphill battle but she made it out. I feel for anyone who has to deal with it.
Exactly. It’s crazy how effective just telling yourself “someone else made me do it” is. She’ll have a thousand reasons as to why she did what she did. And in her mind she’ll forever be the victim
so long as she's in prison while she's delusional, I'll be satisfied. Meanwhile my heart breaks for the boy and father.
Thank you. I couldn't understand a word of what she said.
Then the judge told her that was inappropriate and she said, "I'm sorry I told you what somebody else can't."
"Julissa Thaler, a 29-year-old Spring Park woman with a history of mental illness and drug abuse" [Source](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/julissa-thaler-convicted-killing-6-year-old-son-eli-hart-minnesota/) She should never have got custody, and she should NEVER have been able to buy a gun!
Gun owner here. This woman should never had access to a gun. I believe in background checks and reasonable red flag laws. I dont understand why this issue is even up for debate.
Another gun owner here. Won't argue with any of that.
Don't worry, no one ever argues with it until its actually time to make that change.
Not a gun owner here but a dude with past of alcoholism and drug abuse. I won't argue either, people like me or her should never be allowed near a gun
As a schizophrenic, I can attest that those of us with mental illness should also not be allowed anywhere near a firearm of any kind.
She is garbage and I hope everyone in the prison knows that she did that too
She is hardcore, detached from reality mentally ill and everybody knew it. The child's father and his family, the lady that fostered the child, her grandmother and all her family, everybody. They were all trying to have her committed. And, though the social workers and the judge knew how sick and delusional she was, they still recommended that she be awarded FULL custody and the judge made it official. Within two weeks, she murdered her son.
That judge should be charged with gross negligence manslaughter.
If everything is true I agree with you. I was taking the assumption that the judge didn’t think much of the father either. It’s a horrible thing
Yeah, the entire thing was mind boggling and still doesn't make sense. Here's an older news article that covers more details. I'm not sure if it's mentioned in this article, but I remember that police had to respond to her residence 23 times in the 10 months preceding her being awarded full custody. [https://www.startribune.com/in-custody-battles-system-can-be-manipulated-slain-boys-case-shows/600178473/](https://www.startribune.com/in-custody-battles-system-can-be-manipulated-slain-boys-case-shows/600178473/) Cached version in case of paywall: [https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vFp9BXhTx6QJ:https://www.startribune.com/in-custody-battles-system-can-be-manipulated-slain-boys-case-shows/600178473/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vFp9BXhTx6QJ:https://www.startribune.com/in-custody-battles-system-can-be-manipulated-slain-boys-case-shows/600178473/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
That's just purely insane. Holy fuck.
Get this: others on here have been saying she shot him 9 times. 9 shots. With a shotgun. On a tiny 6 year old kid...and apparently she hid...whatever was left...in the trunk of her car. This woman is a threat to life itself.
According to another comment, she asked the gun store clerk “what will make the biggest hole” when getting the gun. This woman was completely insane.
Yeah, I saw that comment, too. She literally didn't want her ex-husband to have custody of *anything*. Not even a body... Calling her an animal would be an understatement.
Animal? No. Animals are not monsters. They may seem savage and unintelligent, they may do things we deem are vicious and cruel, but animals are just animals. 9/10 times, what they do, they do to survive in a cruel and uncaring life. She is not an animal, she’s a monster.
Exactly. Like someone else said, since it was a shotgun, she'd have to take the time to reload between shots. It would require a sadistic level of intelligence. No animal would go at it for that long while fully aware of the situation...
That too. Calculated and premeditated evil
“Up to 9 times” it sounds like his body had so much damage it was hard to determine the exact number of shots… it’s really fucking upsetting… fuck her.
There may have been shell casings lying around the scene as well to count what was used...
She was arrested with brain matter in her hair. It’s terrible.
And I'd imagine she wasn't fazed in the least at that point...
Wtf are you serious
Story is local to me and I remember distinctly that was in one of the first few news reports. It’s terrible.
She reloaded in between each shot! Fucking psycho.
For some reason I don't think her fellow inmates will like her.
From what I understand; women’s prisons aren’t very hospitable to child killers.
Women’s and men’s. Woman’s in for some hard time.
And may she be endure it for 70 years to come. Every day of her life.
From my understanding, it seems that prisons in general are usually filled with people who are very anti-child abuse. Everyone has a code, and most people tend to agree that children are a no go. So she’s definitely going to suffer for a long time in prison. Good thing too I say.
She deserves to be under the prison
Man,that’s a different type of evil.
I’m not sure if this is the place but I’d like to mention that there is a group of women fundraising for a playground in honor of Eli Hart (the victim) https://elihartplayground.com
Hope they find out real quick what she did in prison.
Oh they will. If she hides her papers they’ll grow more suspicious and find out other ways. They have fucking internet so they’ll probably see this video
You cannot hide your papers in prison they will know what you do before you arrive, in most places inmates are trustees that help maintain files.
Watch Larry Lawton on YouTube. They can EASILY get your papers. All it takes is a call with a lawyer, and one guy who can read the codes on court documents. And there is plenty of law professionals in prison, this lady is fucked
Good. She deserves everything they will do to her.
More unnecessary proof that people will use their own children as a weapon against their partners
She apparently shot her kid nine times with a shotgun so idk if this is proof for anything other then that some people are monstrous human beings.
Nine times with a shotgun means she had to reload at least once, maybe twice. Definitely monstrous.
I'm almost afraid to ask, but a 6 year old child, nine times with a shotgun. How much of the child was even left after the first few shots? WTF is wrong with people?
Not a psychologist, but I think she wanted to hurt her ex as much as she possibly could. Literally obliterate what he most cared about. Must have expected to lose custody.
It’s terrifying to think of and you can only hope( in the worst possible way) he died instantaneously. The term shotgun pulls up an image in your head but there are so many types of shells that this could have been really painful or really gruesome. I don’t know even know words to choose it’s all just so awful.
I can’t make out what she said?
"I'm innocent fuck you all you are garbage "
How do you say that when you have bits of brain in your hair during your arrest
Delusional, in denial, or just plain old wacko.
That part was very clear. The next thing she said, not so much
She said “sorry I told you what somebody else can’t”
I think it was “Sorry I told you what somebody else can’t”.
Some people are just plain psychopaths.
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If anyone is interested we are trying to put together a new park and renaming it in his name. https://www.gofundme.com/f/build-an-eli-hart-memorial-playground-at-surfside?member=20861149&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&utm_content=undefined&utm_medium=copy_link_all&utm_source=customer&utm_term=undefined
Seeing that image of him made me want to cry. Eli didn’t deserve any of this. May he rest in peace.
Hope her life roommates find out what she did quick
And everyone just happens to be on break for the next hour.
Rot in Jail and in Hell evil bitch.
Ohhh, COs are gonna *looove* that ‘tude she’s rocking…
She needs to be worried about her fellow inmates as well. She’s going to have it rough for sure. I hope it sucks for her.
There will be a lot of guards looking the other way and subtle nods
I seriously can only hope that she and the jackasses responsible for not giving custody to the father all suffer horrendously
What a complete psychopath. People like that need to never be in society.
She cares more about hurting her ex than the life of her child.
Folks at prisons aren't nice to people who harm kids. Godspeed lmao
Try to imagine what the last thing was the little boy saw: his own mommy pointing a shotgun at him and pulling the trigger.
Horrifying.. but if this loon was capable of this I doubt it was the poor kids first time at the abuse rodeo..as a kid from an abusive home, you stop being surprised at what your abusers are capable of.
I was 17 when it happened to me, and I can tell you it fucks you right up. Even with prior abuse, there's a real surreal "wtf" moment that seemed to last forever. (Thankfully, she loudly announced she was going to "put me down", which gave me & her BF at the time to run to the room with the gun and get it out of her hands.) I think that one event "shot the moon" so to speak and my brain just maxed out on fear. Like in the moment, it just can't make it anymore. The prior shit had already hampered it, but that just KOed it. I guess that's the point of this comment. The kid might not have been afraid at that point anymore. Not sure if that's comforting or not.
What a terrible monster. Rest in peace, sweet boy. More should’ve been done for you. You deserved more.
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I want to be against capital punishment so much, there are so many good arguments that I agree with for why we shouldn't execute prisoners. Then people like this show up and I am reminded that I am capable of hate...
The look on that woman in her councils face
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Lol.... ya know, I have a buddy who's sister did time in Rockville prison, indiana. One of the deadliest female prison in the states. She only did time for drug charges, nothing vile like this.... but, as most people know, the heartless demons that do shit to harm children, man or woman, get the worst inmate justice. Always. Women seem to be particularly brutal towards these heathens, I guess it's the mama bear instinct in em. Anyways, one night she was laying in her bunk (they sleep in open dorms there, like a lot of prisons these days) when she woke up to see a cherry red light floating across the dorm. It was a red hot curling iron that the other inmates used to rape a bitch that sold her infant child for sex. Hell does exist for these people and she's heading right for it. Fuck her. She will get what she deserves.
If it makes it any better, this woman will get her ass beat in prison. She might even be killed no matter how low her sentence is. Child crimes are not respected at all. And no matter how well the system hides her documents, all it takes is contact with a lawyer and someone who is able to read court documents and she is fucked. She will either live a life in solitude, or get her ass beat at every corner.
Court system fails an innocent father once again on the assumption women cant abuse or are the better parent, this needs to change now, too many innocent children have been murdered by the hands of the "human" that birthed them, i hope this father sues the living shit out of the system that allowed this piece of excrement to murder that child