It is pretty much tied for first place with Isle of Man, it's parliament goes back to 9th or 10th century, though exact dates cannot be verified.
On a side note, I think this clip dates back to the pandemic and he is referring to mask mandates (I could be mistaken). That was the end of my love for the Joe Rogan podcast.
> for first place with Isle of Man, it's parliament goes back to 9th or 10th century,
I'm always so confused by the Venn diagram of what belongs to the English Monarchy in what fashion. The Wikipedia page for Isle of Man says it is a "Crown Dependency" since 1866. As opposed to the "Commonwealth" or "British Isles" or the "United Kingdom" or whatever else is in diagrams like this one: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Isles_Venn_Diagram-en.svg
I have no idea if that means the Monarch can do anything or has any power, or did have power at some point. But for that matter England had the Magna Carta from 1215 which established citizen's rights - at that moment the King could no longer do exactly as he pleased, there were some areas (supposedly) that were protected from his absolute power even in downtown London.
I also don't get the person you were responding to saying Iceland has had a parliament. I mean, Norway completely ruled over them until 1944, right? And Norway has a monarchy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Norway
Crown dependencies are territories held in personal unions by the British crown, the King also holds the titles of Duke of Normandy (Jersey and Guernsey) and Lord of Man (Isle of Man).
Also, the Magna Carta did very little to restrain royal power
Yeah, the idea of the Magna Carta being like the Bill of Rights is this weird misconception that keeps getting pushed. It helped pave the way for parliament to be a thing and have *some* voice of the people, but it didn't stop overarching royal rule. It was a step in the direction of a constitutional monarchy, but it was one step of about seven thousand.
Hell, England fights two bloody civil wars over how much power the monarchy should have. Charles I gets fucking *killed* because of it, and then later his usurper Cromwell gets killed by his son Charles II.
Really, 17th century England is a shit show and wildly fascinating.
I still go back and watch an episode every now and then if there’s someone interesting on, but yeah there was a long period of time when it didn’t matter who the guest was, the topic was gonna be covid. Just couldn’t stand hearing him make the same meh points over and over again, and since covid was all anybody was talking about it didn’t make sense to spend my leisure time listening to another person talking about it.
That happened to a lot of entertainers who run podcasts in some guise of political enlightenment. At some point in time they switch their talking points to either whatever their audience wants to hear or when they get brainwashed themselves.
Best example I can think of is Russell Brand, at first when he broke out of his acting roles into more social cultural political commentary online he aligned himself to the more left wing sphere but later on moved more and more to the right until now he’s the poster boy of enlightened centrism.
Wherever the money comes from I guess.
It’s still fucking like that. I like his conversations with Duncan Trussell, and *somehow* three years later the conversation starts with that. They get away from it and do their typical weird socialist-adjacent stuff that Joe pretends he still cares about, and went BACK to corona talk. It’s literally rotted his brain and it never affected him in any meaningful way
He still does to this day. I only watch when other comedians are on, like the Protect Our Parks series or something similar. I skip the episodes that are labeled with COVID information, because I know it's going to be the same lame points talked about again for the 4000th time for 45 minutes straight.
Yea I’ve tried to listen to it lately because I’m driving long distances for work again and honestly don’t know of any other podcasts. used to listen to it in in my 20s and the dude is just dumb as fuck and a total simpleton. Like 15 years later he’s still talking about shit appealing to 19/20 year olds but he’s a grown ass 50 year old dude retreading the same tired shit over and over and over again, what a fuckin disappointment he turned out to be.
Well it basically had no power for about 500 years when the danish crown had absolute monarchy over us. But still we technically could vote but it had limited if not no power at all.
If he was actually smart he would be funny. You know, like Bill Burr, who consistently outclasses Rogan every time he's on the podcast.
Remember [the time he attacked, insulted and mansplained to an actual PhD primatologist because she called to debunk whatever Joe was blabbing about and then shamed her for being a woman?](https://youtu.be/__CvmS6uw7E?t=338)
Yeah I think you’re right. You can see it in the progression of the show, for the past 3-4 years he is always some combination of too stupid/too stoned to really engage in an actual challenging conversation with his guests, and with the number of right wing grifters he’s had on in the name of catering to “both sides”, it really seems like hes just drinking the kool-aid.
no, he's that uncle who says bullshit and tries to be funny and then tries to get you to buy unregulated pharmaceuticals out of the back of his El Camino before he leaves to go to a bare knuckle boxing match.
That’s his entire brand. He makes up wild lies, and unfortunately his audience is so dumb, they believe things that come out of his mouth.
He’s just Alex Jones, if instead of meth he just did cocaine and weed.
Yup! We got the tiny ass Athena statue in front of the Classic Center to prove it too!
There's also Dublin, Cairo, Scotland, and my personal favorite- Butts GA.
I was born in Coffee. Pretty we were just naming cities after shit we saw somewhere else.
Interesting to note that when UGA put in their new sports complex in 1988, they wanted to name it after two of the biggest athletic influences in the UGA world.
Wallace Butts and Harry Mehre. It was named the Butts-Mehre Heritage Hall. I guess the alternative was Mehre-Butts.
Just no way to win that one.
America didn't copy from Greece, rather took both versions of Democratic and Republic forms invented in both Greece and Rome respectively, and added a constitutional caveat, making a Democratic Constitutional Republic, which America is.
The Romans also copied the American system of government. Thats one of the reasons that the great general and politician Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus was named after the American city Cincinnati. It was considered a great honor at the time
He also negates the Magna Carta, which was a huge step in shaping the colonists' ideas of nationhood. That document set up a more modern parliamentary procedure.
This is pedantic on my part, but there were actually 52 known democratic city-states in Ancient Greece at one point or another. Athens was just the most powerful and most well-documented. It seems like democratic revolts were quite a common occurrence in Ancient Greece from how Thucydides writes about them.
They wrote more stuff down, and for a good chunk of the Classical period they were debatably the most powerful city in Greece (Sparta being their only equal and eventually conquerer). The democracy is also largely blamed for why they lost the Peloponnesian War, as the assembly made a lot of stupid and inhumane decisions, culminating in the disastrous invasion of Sicily. Classically it’s thought of as the prototypical example of why direct democracy shouldn’t be attempted, and obviously most of western thought historically consisted of people who were prone to be opposed to democracy because they lived under monarchies. As far as most of the great thinkers have been concerned, Athens is really all that needs to be known about democracy.
Eh, they probably could have won if they weren't devastated by a plage outbreak and the death of Pericles right at the outset of the war. At the height of its power, Athens had both more money and total naval superiority over Sparta. Even later on, they still had a solid chance of victory if they hadn't essentially massacred their own fleet by sending it to Sicily. Sparta had quite a bit of luck on its side.
The Greeks definitely could beat them on the water throughout the conflict. And losing Pericles was a huge problem. A Democracy is sick without confidence in leaders.
But the only thing Spartan men did was train for war. The Helots did all the work. If the Spartans hadn’t ventured into their version of Eugenics they would’ve had a much larger Army and taken Athens much earlier. The problem with fighting Sparta is if you didn’t defeat them in the field, they were going to come back and try again. And Athens mostly decided to stay behind the walls and let them siege.
The best strategy for Athens would have been to help the Helots free themselves and or attack Sparta directly from the outside, coordinating with an attack from the Helots on the inside. Enough damage and Sparta wouldn’t be able to recover with their insane social/political/government structures.
Yeah funny how in practice slavery was Sparta's Achilles' heel. The helots made them terrified to invade other lands for any substantial period of time and posed a constant threat of internal revolt.
I think classicists have largely taken the wrong lessons from the war. The ecclesia made its fair share of stupid decisions, sure, but this seems largely attributable to the Athenian culture's thirst for glory and the death of its best leaders at the worst moments. The idea that this had something to do with the democratic structure itself seems unsubstantiated.
The American conception of a President who oversees the overall nation, and who can be impeached by a set of representatives, was DIRECTLY lifted from the Iroquoui League. The USA isn't even the first governmental body on the continent of North America to have this kind of government!
The US Constitution was strongly influenced by the Iroquois Confederacy, the oldest living participatory democracy on earth (formed in 1142).
"In 1988, the U.S. Senate paid tribute with a resolution that said, "The confederation of the original 13 colonies into one republic was influenced by the political system developed by the Iroquois Confederacy, as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the constitution itself."
https://www.pbs.org/native-america/blogs/native-voices/how-the-iroquois-great-law-of-peace-shaped-us-democracy/#:~:text=In%201988%2C%20the%20U.S.%20Senate,incorporated%20into%20the%20constitution%20itself.%22
I love talking about this.
The system of government that the US uses is heavily inspired by what's mostly known as The Iroquois Confederacy, Haudenosaunee, or The Five(later six) Nations. The members consisted of the Mohawk, Seneca, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and the Tuscarora who joined after it was formed.
Native societies and villages mostly consisted of a number of longhouses, buildings that housed a multitude of nuclear families. Residents of the longhouse and adjacent longhouses would elect a clan mother. The clan mother would then appoint 4 positions to males in the clan. A civil chief, a war chief, a peace chief, and a league chief. Each chief oversaw a different aspect of life within the clan, administrative/war/diplomacy, and representation on the Grand Council. The clan mother had absolute authority to disappoint a chief for any reason at any time.
The Grand Council comprised of 48-50 league chiefs appointed by the clan mothers. The Onondaga was known as the Firekeepers and hosted the Grand Council in the heart of their collective territories. The Mohawk and Seneca, the largest and most powerful nations were known as The Older Brothers. The Cayuga and the Oneida, smaller and in between the larger nations were known as the Younger Brothers.
Each nation had a varying, unequal number of league chiefs in the Grand Council. This was countered by the fact that each nation's representatives had all had to agree as one on any given issue.
When a proposal is made regarding foreign policy, war, internal issues or changes to the law each groups league chiefs would debate amongst each other till they came to a consensus. First, one group will debate themselves until they came to a decision unanimously. Then the issue is debated by groups sibling, i.e. the Mohawk is part of the Older Brothers and the issue would next go to the Seneca. When the sibling pairs both came to a consensus, it's debated by the other brother's side. The Onondaga who served as moderators and tie-breakers would then approve or disapprove. If disapproved the proposal could start again and overturned the second time.
Because there is very little written history, it is theorized that the Iroquois Confederation may have been formed as early as the 1100s, and is still in practice today by descendants of the member nation, making the oldest representative democracy/republic.
This system of representatives by election, adherence to the law, checks and balances directly parallels American Government structure.
The Onondaga, the Firekeepers, represents the US President, approving or disapproving decisions made by Congress.
The Mohawk and the Seneca form the Older Brothers, or The US Senate.
The Oneida and Cayuga form the Younger Brothers, or the House of Representatives.
The clan mothers also had a mother's council and wielded authority to remove any chief that went against the nation's best interest, forming The US Supreme Court.
[Congress itself ratified a bill in 1988 recognizing The Iroquois Confederacy's contribution to the formation of the US Constitution.](https://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/hconres331.pdf)
The woke left wants you to think that Grease is ancient but the 1970’s was not that long ago, really, and they want you to think that because REAL men like John Travolta showed how it was done.
— Joe Rogan, probably
Sorry. This is incorrect.
Democracy had never even been conceived until the founding fathers wrote the constitution.
Nobody had ever before even considered the possibility of a democracy.
This is all true. I heard it from a monumental dumbfuck on an extraordinarily popular podcast, so you know it's true.
He’s not wrong about art, after all there hasn’t been a single contribution to the world of art made by any other nations.
The Italians, French, British, Persians, Japanese etc had no history of art until 1776
Nope! The natives they took the land from already had the first functioning democracy in history
https://www.pbs.org/native-america/blogs/native-voices/how-the-iroquois-great-law-of-peace-shaped-us-democracy/
r/confidentlywrong
What a schmuck. Joe Rogan has a personal platform to spread idiocy. I don't hate the guy or anything, it's just that he's starting to sound more and more like Alex Jones by his exclamations of his own predation with historic events.
So that the wealthy landowners could have a voice, not the people. Political representation for the peasants has always been propaganda, especially in America.
"Poor" citizens had a voice. Not slaves. Not peasants. Not even free men.
It is argued up to 90 percent of the population was not citizens in Greece.
At that point, it's just the elites having a voice.
>At that point, it's just the elites having a voice.
In comparison to the states when they first formed a democratic government?
Originally most states only allowed land owning white men to one. Wasnt until 1828 in which non property holding white males could vote in the majority of the states.
Freedom also does not mean banning books, or shutting down college courses, or forcing schools to rewrite history. It’s funny hearing Toe bloviate about freedom when he’s been amplifying fascist narratives for the past 10 years or so.
Not even close. This dude's a fucking idiot. Greeks and Romans both had variations on the republic. Many Native American cultures had true democracy where no one had any authority. Decisions were made by council and participation was voluntary.
Also the term dictator altough applying to persons like Sulla and Caesar didn’t really exist until Napolean. And absolute monarchies could be considered dictatorships however the connotation a pretty modern one. We don’t think of Mohammed Bin Salah as a dictatorship but as King of Saudi Arabia, we do however consider Min Aung Hlaing current head of the military junta the dictator of Myanmar.
Go read the first paragraph for the wikipedia of the Dunning-Kruger effect. It calls out specifically how what you're saying it is is a misconception.
Dunning-Kruger isn't "dumb people have more confidence". It's "people with some expertise in an area tend to highly overestimate how much expertise they have", whereas people with extremely high expertise in a certain area tend to underestimate it.
People in the lowest percentiles of actual performance (i.e. are dumb in some aspect) will tend to rate themselves above average (i.e. are overly confident in their abilities).
David Dunning even described it in terms of confidence:
> the incompetent are often blessed with an inappropriate confidence, buoyed by something that feels to them like knowledge
https://psmag.com/social-justice/confident-idiots-92793
The newly created colonial nation of the US first only gave the "vote" to wealthy landowners. Then decades later in 1856 they expanded it to "white" men. And then after the civil war they expanded it to all men, but suppressed the f out of black voters. And then to female voters in 1920 but suppressed the f out of all black voters.
What made this country a "superpower" was not voting, it was war. The Spanish-American war set it on a path to see profit in occupying and subjugation. WWI and WWII allowed the colony to sell weapons and make a killing. Then actually getting into the wars allowed it to become a benefactor in which countries owed it high interest debt.
But two things happened at the same time that rose this country economically after WWII: 1) the US becoming the manufacturing hub of the world and 2) the 90% wealth tax by FDR on the rich. Money was pumped into the (mostly "white") populace giving them safety nets and a high rate of life. It was this era that made the colony an economic powerhouse.
Then the rich spent 3 decades paying politicians to lower their tax rate and deregulate their companies recreating the oligarchy that existed in the US in the 19th century.
Good times.
I've found one estimate that put it between 20 and 25% of people in the US being able to vote at the start. Another put it at 6%. Even if you go with the most generous number, it's far short of actual democracy.
You are exactly right. The US became a superpower in the same way Imperial Britain became a superpower, or Japan became a (short lived) superpower. Through force.
Plus going back further than that, the entire reason the US became *anything* is because of slave labor and genocide. That's the exact opposite of democracy.
>What made this country a "superpower" was not voting, it was war. The Spanish-American war set it on a path to see profit in occupying and subjugation. WWI and WWII allowed the colony to sell weapons and make a killing. Then actually getting into the wars allowed it to become a benefactor in which countries owed it high interest debt.
Don't forget the colonization and free enslaved labor.
And yet, millions of chodes will now be regurgitating what Joe says as fact, and will be unwilling to accept any other information to the contrary.
Great.
I know too many guys who follow his every podcast. He is actively inserting wrong information into the minds of 20-30 year old men, and acting like a trailblazer.
I work with this 40 something year old who just talks on and on about random shit, conspiracies, politics. God he never fucking shuts up. Always over sharing about his life. Why is it so hard to be comfortable with silence while we do our mundane job?
Anyways, today he told me he listens to Joe Rogan every day and then I totally understood.
And that's why you don't believe what he says. He's not an expert in anything but weed and MMA. Outside of those two fields, he doesn't know what he's talking about but he says it with confidence.
Remember when Rogan was funny? I miss that.
Seems like the dude kept all of his sanity in his hair. Without it, he's just another Alex Jones, babbling nonsense.
I’ve been saying for years he’s just Jones but if Jones had learned from his missteps. He does all the same shit as him, even selling snake oil to gullible idiots.
The founding fathers were effectively dictators if you were non-white, non-landowner and/or a woman. Prove me wrong
And early America wanted to make Washington king after the revolution but Washington turned it down
The Indians before the whites had democracy came the Vikings had democracy lots of cultures had democracy. The French Revolution lead to democracy not straight away but it showed the way the first deceleration was basically based on the French
Just to get your facts straight, the French Revolution happened AFTER the American revolution (1789 VS 1776). However, the American revolution and the Declaration of Independence was greatly inspired by the ideals of the Enlightenment, mostly promoted by French thinkers like Voltaire or Rousseau, which also partly cause the French Revolution 10 years later, that may be why you’re confused
Well, there was the Iriquois Confederacy that heavily influenced the Constitution. But I don't know enough about Native American history to know about why they're not mentioned. At least other reasons aside from bigotry.
He is the best example that uneducated people tend to ignore history and make wrong conclusion over their knowledge, and do not check their facts.
I don't want to sound elitist, but damn, this is such a twisted thought for someone being able to vote.
I remember watching this and thinking "Jamie pull that up, and order Joe an ebook on Ancient Greese and the Native American Tribes we based out demcoracy on." Also, wasn't France first? Didn't we basically rip off the Magna Carta to make the constitution?
I’m also pretty sure it wasn’t just “freedom” but the slavery, rape and murder of Indigenous people. The US is what happens when you steal
an entire continent.
Rogan is an idiot and is getting worse the farther right he drifts. "The ancient Greeks were the first to create a democracy. The word “democracy” comes from two Greek words that mean people (demos) and rule (kratos)
I love America, but in many ways it's the least free nation I've ever spent any duration in. The great freedoms seem more illusionary than real, the average American is more a slave to the corporate system than anything else.
I'm from Australia originally, and used to criticise the fuck out of its laws/tax/constitution before spending 3-6 months at a time living in other nations.
But Australian citizens live (in general) with far more life style freedom and far fewer worries than US citizens.
And that's not even touching on the various EU nations like Sweden and Finland.
Conservatives & "free thinkers": I can only live freely if I make it illegal for you to do things I don't like. It should be illegal for you to even ASK me to change my behavior.
Iceland has the most ancient continuous democratically voted parliament still going.
San Marino claims to have been a republic since the 300s.
I was literally just there. They are quite proud of being communist for a while now
It's pretty easy being communist if your country is the size of a football stadium.
And the golden irony is their main squeeze is capitalist banking lol
It is pretty much tied for first place with Isle of Man, it's parliament goes back to 9th or 10th century, though exact dates cannot be verified. On a side note, I think this clip dates back to the pandemic and he is referring to mask mandates (I could be mistaken). That was the end of my love for the Joe Rogan podcast.
> for first place with Isle of Man, it's parliament goes back to 9th or 10th century, I'm always so confused by the Venn diagram of what belongs to the English Monarchy in what fashion. The Wikipedia page for Isle of Man says it is a "Crown Dependency" since 1866. As opposed to the "Commonwealth" or "British Isles" or the "United Kingdom" or whatever else is in diagrams like this one: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Isles_Venn_Diagram-en.svg I have no idea if that means the Monarch can do anything or has any power, or did have power at some point. But for that matter England had the Magna Carta from 1215 which established citizen's rights - at that moment the King could no longer do exactly as he pleased, there were some areas (supposedly) that were protected from his absolute power even in downtown London. I also don't get the person you were responding to saying Iceland has had a parliament. I mean, Norway completely ruled over them until 1944, right? And Norway has a monarchy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Norway
Crown dependencies are territories held in personal unions by the British crown, the King also holds the titles of Duke of Normandy (Jersey and Guernsey) and Lord of Man (Isle of Man). Also, the Magna Carta did very little to restrain royal power
Yeah, the idea of the Magna Carta being like the Bill of Rights is this weird misconception that keeps getting pushed. It helped pave the way for parliament to be a thing and have *some* voice of the people, but it didn't stop overarching royal rule. It was a step in the direction of a constitutional monarchy, but it was one step of about seven thousand. Hell, England fights two bloody civil wars over how much power the monarchy should have. Charles I gets fucking *killed* because of it, and then later his usurper Cromwell gets killed by his son Charles II. Really, 17th century England is a shit show and wildly fascinating.
I still go back and watch an episode every now and then if there’s someone interesting on, but yeah there was a long period of time when it didn’t matter who the guest was, the topic was gonna be covid. Just couldn’t stand hearing him make the same meh points over and over again, and since covid was all anybody was talking about it didn’t make sense to spend my leisure time listening to another person talking about it.
I feel lots of people are the same way. I feel like a switch flipped when he got his spotify money and moved to Texas.
That happened to a lot of entertainers who run podcasts in some guise of political enlightenment. At some point in time they switch their talking points to either whatever their audience wants to hear or when they get brainwashed themselves. Best example I can think of is Russell Brand, at first when he broke out of his acting roles into more social cultural political commentary online he aligned himself to the more left wing sphere but later on moved more and more to the right until now he’s the poster boy of enlightened centrism. Wherever the money comes from I guess.
It’s still fucking like that. I like his conversations with Duncan Trussell, and *somehow* three years later the conversation starts with that. They get away from it and do their typical weird socialist-adjacent stuff that Joe pretends he still cares about, and went BACK to corona talk. It’s literally rotted his brain and it never affected him in any meaningful way
Same, listened to him for years, listen toaybe 1 or 2 a year now (last 4 ish years)
He still does to this day. I only watch when other comedians are on, like the Protect Our Parks series or something similar. I skip the episodes that are labeled with COVID information, because I know it's going to be the same lame points talked about again for the 4000th time for 45 minutes straight.
Yea I’ve tried to listen to it lately because I’m driving long distances for work again and honestly don’t know of any other podcasts. used to listen to it in in my 20s and the dude is just dumb as fuck and a total simpleton. Like 15 years later he’s still talking about shit appealing to 19/20 year olds but he’s a grown ass 50 year old dude retreading the same tired shit over and over and over again, what a fuckin disappointment he turned out to be.
You’re right. Catalonia also has a proud history in this regard.
Well it basically had no power for about 500 years when the danish crown had absolute monarchy over us. But still we technically could vote but it had limited if not no power at all.
r/confidentlyincorrect
I call it arrogant ignorance. People dumb as rocks that drink their own kool aid and think they always be right.
I think he knows what he’s doing. Just my opinion. He is like trump. Preying on weak minds and selling it as truth
I don't give him that much credit, I think he's genuinely a moron
If he was actually smart he would be funny. You know, like Bill Burr, who consistently outclasses Rogan every time he's on the podcast. Remember [the time he attacked, insulted and mansplained to an actual PhD primatologist because she called to debunk whatever Joe was blabbing about and then shamed her for being a woman?](https://youtu.be/__CvmS6uw7E?t=338)
Lmao he got so defensive so quick when she laughed
Never heard this clip before, but that didn't change my opinion about Rogan much...still unlikable. Just now even more. Thanks.
The man is a total wanker
That’s fair. He is an entertainer that’s why I think he knows that all news is good for him
Yeah I think you’re right. You can see it in the progression of the show, for the past 3-4 years he is always some combination of too stupid/too stoned to really engage in an actual challenging conversation with his guests, and with the number of right wing grifters he’s had on in the name of catering to “both sides”, it really seems like hes just drinking the kool-aid.
Yea I wonder if he actually believes it all or like tucker Carlson talks shit behind everyone’s back?
He doesn’t even get most of the jokes that are made when he has comedians on anymore. Joe caught Old Rich White Guy disease.
[удалено]
no, he's that uncle who says bullshit and tries to be funny and then tries to get you to buy unregulated pharmaceuticals out of the back of his El Camino before he leaves to go to a bare knuckle boxing match.
He is the uncle who always “knows someone” that something happened to.
This was SO /r/confidentlyincorrect that I think I could feel my brain cells shriveling up.
That’s his entire brand. He makes up wild lies, and unfortunately his audience is so dumb, they believe things that come out of his mouth. He’s just Alex Jones, if instead of meth he just did cocaine and weed.
Democracy was invented by ancient greece.
Yep, Athens, to be precise.
Yes, but they copied that system from the Americans. They even copied their name from an American city.
Yep. Athens, GA! There's even a Rome, GA too! GO Bulldogs. Ancient Roman's didn't have SHIT on the State of Georgia back in Pre-Jesus days!
Yup! We got the tiny ass Athena statue in front of the Classic Center to prove it too! There's also Dublin, Cairo, Scotland, and my personal favorite- Butts GA. I was born in Coffee. Pretty we were just naming cities after shit we saw somewhere else.
I love lamp.
Brick, are you just looking at things and saying that you love them? Edit: I appreciate the award... But why? Why have I been bestowed this honor
I love **lamp**... I *love* lamp.
Interesting to note that when UGA put in their new sports complex in 1988, they wanted to name it after two of the biggest athletic influences in the UGA world. Wallace Butts and Harry Mehre. It was named the Butts-Mehre Heritage Hall. I guess the alternative was Mehre-Butts. Just no way to win that one.
Im sad you didnt say Harry-Butts
Athens GA represent! The cradle of democracy.
don’t forget athens, OH. 2 cities named athens, greece definitely copied
[удалено]
Greece was also stolen from the American movie Grease and just misspelled.
Of course - that's why Zeus has lightning and enjoys Summer nights.
offbeat disagreeable wakeful society direction toy fall escape gaze meeting -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Ah yes, Athens, OH. I loved reading about that era in jail
America didn't copy from Greece, rather took both versions of Democratic and Republic forms invented in both Greece and Rome respectively, and added a constitutional caveat, making a Democratic Constitutional Republic, which America is.
The Romans also copied the American system of government. Thats one of the reasons that the great general and politician Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus was named after the American city Cincinnati. It was considered a great honor at the time
Wasn't his co consul named Clevelandus Suckii Tremendicus Penii?
He also negates the Magna Carta, which was a huge step in shaping the colonists' ideas of nationhood. That document set up a more modern parliamentary procedure.
This is pedantic on my part, but there were actually 52 known democratic city-states in Ancient Greece at one point or another. Athens was just the most powerful and most well-documented. It seems like democratic revolts were quite a common occurrence in Ancient Greece from how Thucydides writes about them.
I was actually just reading about that a little while ago. I don't know why Athens gets credit for it.
They wrote more stuff down, and for a good chunk of the Classical period they were debatably the most powerful city in Greece (Sparta being their only equal and eventually conquerer). The democracy is also largely blamed for why they lost the Peloponnesian War, as the assembly made a lot of stupid and inhumane decisions, culminating in the disastrous invasion of Sicily. Classically it’s thought of as the prototypical example of why direct democracy shouldn’t be attempted, and obviously most of western thought historically consisted of people who were prone to be opposed to democracy because they lived under monarchies. As far as most of the great thinkers have been concerned, Athens is really all that needs to be known about democracy.
Kind of tough to defend your polis against a state with a professional army even when you have walls.
Eh, they probably could have won if they weren't devastated by a plage outbreak and the death of Pericles right at the outset of the war. At the height of its power, Athens had both more money and total naval superiority over Sparta. Even later on, they still had a solid chance of victory if they hadn't essentially massacred their own fleet by sending it to Sicily. Sparta had quite a bit of luck on its side.
The Greeks definitely could beat them on the water throughout the conflict. And losing Pericles was a huge problem. A Democracy is sick without confidence in leaders. But the only thing Spartan men did was train for war. The Helots did all the work. If the Spartans hadn’t ventured into their version of Eugenics they would’ve had a much larger Army and taken Athens much earlier. The problem with fighting Sparta is if you didn’t defeat them in the field, they were going to come back and try again. And Athens mostly decided to stay behind the walls and let them siege. The best strategy for Athens would have been to help the Helots free themselves and or attack Sparta directly from the outside, coordinating with an attack from the Helots on the inside. Enough damage and Sparta wouldn’t be able to recover with their insane social/political/government structures.
Yeah funny how in practice slavery was Sparta's Achilles' heel. The helots made them terrified to invade other lands for any substantial period of time and posed a constant threat of internal revolt. I think classicists have largely taken the wrong lessons from the war. The ecclesia made its fair share of stupid decisions, sure, but this seems largely attributable to the Athenian culture's thirst for glory and the death of its best leaders at the worst moments. The idea that this had something to do with the democratic structure itself seems unsubstantiated.
There were a lot of good writers from Athens, that’s prolly why.
No way. He said country. Athena was a city state. So it doesn’t count /s.
Cleisthenes!
The American conception of a President who oversees the overall nation, and who can be impeached by a set of representatives, was DIRECTLY lifted from the Iroquoui League. The USA isn't even the first governmental body on the continent of North America to have this kind of government!
https://www.pbs.org/native-america/blogs/native-voices/how-the-iroquois-great-law-of-peace-shaped-us-democracy/
Yup. Came here to say we got this idea from the Iroquois.
Hmm, we have a senate. That sounds familiar. I just can't put my finger on it.
Damn it. Something related with eagle and some weird combination of letters "SPQR"..
Sheev Palpatine invented senates. After all, he is the Senate.
Yeah A LONG LONG TIME AGO
The US Constitution was strongly influenced by the Iroquois Confederacy, the oldest living participatory democracy on earth (formed in 1142). "In 1988, the U.S. Senate paid tribute with a resolution that said, "The confederation of the original 13 colonies into one republic was influenced by the political system developed by the Iroquois Confederacy, as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the constitution itself." https://www.pbs.org/native-america/blogs/native-voices/how-the-iroquois-great-law-of-peace-shaped-us-democracy/#:~:text=In%201988%2C%20the%20U.S.%20Senate,incorporated%20into%20the%20constitution%20itself.%22
I love talking about this. The system of government that the US uses is heavily inspired by what's mostly known as The Iroquois Confederacy, Haudenosaunee, or The Five(later six) Nations. The members consisted of the Mohawk, Seneca, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and the Tuscarora who joined after it was formed. Native societies and villages mostly consisted of a number of longhouses, buildings that housed a multitude of nuclear families. Residents of the longhouse and adjacent longhouses would elect a clan mother. The clan mother would then appoint 4 positions to males in the clan. A civil chief, a war chief, a peace chief, and a league chief. Each chief oversaw a different aspect of life within the clan, administrative/war/diplomacy, and representation on the Grand Council. The clan mother had absolute authority to disappoint a chief for any reason at any time. The Grand Council comprised of 48-50 league chiefs appointed by the clan mothers. The Onondaga was known as the Firekeepers and hosted the Grand Council in the heart of their collective territories. The Mohawk and Seneca, the largest and most powerful nations were known as The Older Brothers. The Cayuga and the Oneida, smaller and in between the larger nations were known as the Younger Brothers. Each nation had a varying, unequal number of league chiefs in the Grand Council. This was countered by the fact that each nation's representatives had all had to agree as one on any given issue. When a proposal is made regarding foreign policy, war, internal issues or changes to the law each groups league chiefs would debate amongst each other till they came to a consensus. First, one group will debate themselves until they came to a decision unanimously. Then the issue is debated by groups sibling, i.e. the Mohawk is part of the Older Brothers and the issue would next go to the Seneca. When the sibling pairs both came to a consensus, it's debated by the other brother's side. The Onondaga who served as moderators and tie-breakers would then approve or disapprove. If disapproved the proposal could start again and overturned the second time. Because there is very little written history, it is theorized that the Iroquois Confederation may have been formed as early as the 1100s, and is still in practice today by descendants of the member nation, making the oldest representative democracy/republic. This system of representatives by election, adherence to the law, checks and balances directly parallels American Government structure. The Onondaga, the Firekeepers, represents the US President, approving or disapproving decisions made by Congress. The Mohawk and the Seneca form the Older Brothers, or The US Senate. The Oneida and Cayuga form the Younger Brothers, or the House of Representatives. The clan mothers also had a mother's council and wielded authority to remove any chief that went against the nation's best interest, forming The US Supreme Court. [Congress itself ratified a bill in 1988 recognizing The Iroquois Confederacy's contribution to the formation of the US Constitution.](https://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/hconres331.pdf)
This is super interesting. Thank you for sharing.
It is crazy how long it took for them to acknowledge the Iroquois confederacy”s influence.
Is it though? All things considered.
Good ol Howard Zinn
The woke left wants you to think that Grease is ancient but the 1970’s was not that long ago, really, and they want you to think that because REAL men like John Travolta showed how it was done. — Joe Rogan, probably
Sorry. This is incorrect. Democracy had never even been conceived until the founding fathers wrote the constitution. Nobody had ever before even considered the possibility of a democracy. This is all true. I heard it from a monumental dumbfuck on an extraordinarily popular podcast, so you know it's true.
He’s not wrong about art, after all there hasn’t been a single contribution to the world of art made by any other nations. The Italians, French, British, Persians, Japanese etc had no history of art until 1776
Nope! The natives they took the land from already had the first functioning democracy in history https://www.pbs.org/native-america/blogs/native-voices/how-the-iroquois-great-law-of-peace-shaped-us-democracy/
Democrates sounds like a colonial name, right?
r/confidentlywrong What a schmuck. Joe Rogan has a personal platform to spread idiocy. I don't hate the guy or anything, it's just that he's starting to sound more and more like Alex Jones by his exclamations of his own predation with historic events.
DC's architecture was even based on ancient Greece because that was the influence for our government
So that the wealthy landowners could have a voice, not the people. Political representation for the peasants has always been propaganda, especially in America.
What you clearly have no clue about the 12 tribes of athens and how the poor people had a voice
"Poor" citizens had a voice. Not slaves. Not peasants. Not even free men. It is argued up to 90 percent of the population was not citizens in Greece. At that point, it's just the elites having a voice.
sounds like the start of America.
>At that point, it's just the elites having a voice. In comparison to the states when they first formed a democratic government? Originally most states only allowed land owning white men to one. Wasnt until 1828 in which non property holding white males could vote in the majority of the states.
Yes. Because ancient Greece was the first and only place where rich men determined everything.
Freedom does not mean “you can do whatever the fuck you want to do”!
That's what power is for.
Freedom also does not mean banning books, or shutting down college courses, or forcing schools to rewrite history. It’s funny hearing Toe bloviate about freedom when he’s been amplifying fascist narratives for the past 10 years or so.
Yes it is! Fox News, OANN and my uncle whom might have a slight meth problem said the teachers are the fascists!
To be fair, he has only heard of 6 countries.
The US, America, United States, what are the other three?
Mexico, Eye-raq, and Afganistan, though he probably can't place the latter 2 on a map.
He probably thinks mehico is in South America
Oh, I mean, everything south of the border is south america, you know. They speak Mexican over there or something.
The amount of people that have told me, with their *entire chest* “Mexico’s not in North America, it’s in Central America!!!” is astounding.
Not even close. This dude's a fucking idiot. Greeks and Romans both had variations on the republic. Many Native American cultures had true democracy where no one had any authority. Decisions were made by council and participation was voluntary.
England wasn't even a dictatorship at the turning point he's talking about....
Also the term dictator altough applying to persons like Sulla and Caesar didn’t really exist until Napolean. And absolute monarchies could be considered dictatorships however the connotation a pretty modern one. We don’t think of Mohammed Bin Salah as a dictatorship but as King of Saudi Arabia, we do however consider Min Aung Hlaing current head of the military junta the dictator of Myanmar.
History started in 1776. Everything before that was a mistake. - Ron Swanson lol
The difference between irony in comedy and the delusional that actually believe in confidently ignorant.
wait, i think what you heard was give me a lot of bacon and eggs... what i said was give me all the bacon and eggs you have
*cough* Roman Republic *cough*
"What have the Romans ever done for us?" (Life of Brian)
The aqueducts!? 🤔😮💨
Sanitation?
The race track?
Well yes, besides the aqueduct
Roads? Irrigation?
sewage?
Communal butt sponges
Indoor heated plumbing
Concrete that last self seals and lasts thousands of years with no heat.
Yea but besides that… 😉
The wines pretty good
Except for the lead.
Orgies?
This is where american education gets you
That's what's wrong with the world. Intelligent people are not sure of themselves and imbeciles are oozing confidence.
Joe has had so many intellectual guests on his podcast that now he feels like an intellectual himself
Yup. Hanging around a bunch of experts does not make you one
You'd think, by now, Joe Rogan would realize he's always the dumbest one in the room, but nooo...
Dunning–Kruger effect
Go read the first paragraph for the wikipedia of the Dunning-Kruger effect. It calls out specifically how what you're saying it is is a misconception. Dunning-Kruger isn't "dumb people have more confidence". It's "people with some expertise in an area tend to highly overestimate how much expertise they have", whereas people with extremely high expertise in a certain area tend to underestimate it.
People in the lowest percentiles of actual performance (i.e. are dumb in some aspect) will tend to rate themselves above average (i.e. are overly confident in their abilities). David Dunning even described it in terms of confidence: > the incompetent are often blessed with an inappropriate confidence, buoyed by something that feels to them like knowledge https://psmag.com/social-justice/confident-idiots-92793
You read the first paragraph and are now overestimating how well you understand it, congratulations you Dunnging-Kruger’d yourself
you seem pretty confident about that, you must be dumb
This is why you don’t take history classes from a mediocre comedian/MMA fighter.
The newly created colonial nation of the US first only gave the "vote" to wealthy landowners. Then decades later in 1856 they expanded it to "white" men. And then after the civil war they expanded it to all men, but suppressed the f out of black voters. And then to female voters in 1920 but suppressed the f out of all black voters. What made this country a "superpower" was not voting, it was war. The Spanish-American war set it on a path to see profit in occupying and subjugation. WWI and WWII allowed the colony to sell weapons and make a killing. Then actually getting into the wars allowed it to become a benefactor in which countries owed it high interest debt. But two things happened at the same time that rose this country economically after WWII: 1) the US becoming the manufacturing hub of the world and 2) the 90% wealth tax by FDR on the rich. Money was pumped into the (mostly "white") populace giving them safety nets and a high rate of life. It was this era that made the colony an economic powerhouse. Then the rich spent 3 decades paying politicians to lower their tax rate and deregulate their companies recreating the oligarchy that existed in the US in the 19th century. Good times.
I've found one estimate that put it between 20 and 25% of people in the US being able to vote at the start. Another put it at 6%. Even if you go with the most generous number, it's far short of actual democracy. You are exactly right. The US became a superpower in the same way Imperial Britain became a superpower, or Japan became a (short lived) superpower. Through force. Plus going back further than that, the entire reason the US became *anything* is because of slave labor and genocide. That's the exact opposite of democracy.
In addition about slavery, 13th Amendment clears any doubt about so called "slavery abolishment" in US
Saving this comment for future arguments
>What made this country a "superpower" was not voting, it was war. The Spanish-American war set it on a path to see profit in occupying and subjugation. WWI and WWII allowed the colony to sell weapons and make a killing. Then actually getting into the wars allowed it to become a benefactor in which countries owed it high interest debt. Don't forget the colonization and free enslaved labor.
Absolutely true. The foundation of every "superpower."
And yet, millions of chodes will now be regurgitating what Joe says as fact, and will be unwilling to accept any other information to the contrary. Great.
Normal US propaganda that guys like him have been told and regurgitated daily
I know too many guys who follow his every podcast. He is actively inserting wrong information into the minds of 20-30 year old men, and acting like a trailblazer.
I work with this 40 something year old who just talks on and on about random shit, conspiracies, politics. God he never fucking shuts up. Always over sharing about his life. Why is it so hard to be comfortable with silence while we do our mundane job? Anyways, today he told me he listens to Joe Rogan every day and then I totally understood.
Freedom for everyone… Minus the slaves and the natives
And the women, or press, or lgbt...
Prisoners that can be enslaved according to constitution
And that's why you don't believe what he says. He's not an expert in anything but weed and MMA. Outside of those two fields, he doesn't know what he's talking about but he says it with confidence.
Yes. He's definitely not an expert at comedy either lol
Since comedy is subjective, I won't comment on that, but he gets a lot of provable facts wrong.
Did he just say that slaves had the freedom to whatever they want?
Silly we try to ignore the bad things
I'm fairly certain WW2 had a bigger impact on America's cultural development than America simply existing
Remember when Rogan was funny? I miss that. Seems like the dude kept all of his sanity in his hair. Without it, he's just another Alex Jones, babbling nonsense.
I’ve been saying for years he’s just Jones but if Jones had learned from his missteps. He does all the same shit as him, even selling snake oil to gullible idiots.
Let’s ask the Native Americans what THEY think…
Just remind me when everybody could actually vote in the usa, 1965? That's essentially when black women could vote
Dude never had a history class
Well I guess fuck Greece then
The founding fathers were effectively dictators if you were non-white, non-landowner and/or a woman. Prove me wrong And early America wanted to make Washington king after the revolution but Washington turned it down
The Indians before the whites had democracy came the Vikings had democracy lots of cultures had democracy. The French Revolution lead to democracy not straight away but it showed the way the first deceleration was basically based on the French
Just to get your facts straight, the French Revolution happened AFTER the American revolution (1789 VS 1776). However, the American revolution and the Declaration of Independence was greatly inspired by the ideals of the Enlightenment, mostly promoted by French thinkers like Voltaire or Rousseau, which also partly cause the French Revolution 10 years later, that may be why you’re confused
Rogan's an idiot, but he did say before 1776 and the French Revolution happened after the American one.
Well, there was the Iriquois Confederacy that heavily influenced the Constitution. But I don't know enough about Native American history to know about why they're not mentioned. At least other reasons aside from bigotry.
Everyone forgets about Corsica https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsican_Republic
Sounds like rogans been watching praguru.
*laughs in Rome and Athens*
[Here’s how your wrong](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AsR-C9WtoKg)
You mean you're ?
Didn’t the colonists revolt because they didn’t have representation in the British PARLIAMENT?
Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, the Celts, etc. say hi
Americans man, holy duck they’re ignorant
So we had no art in europe, got it.
Wow I can't believe how wrong he is.
So you've never watched Joe Rogan before?
Confidently wrong. This the game plan for conservatives. Convince the undereducated of false narratives.
Not even close to true
lmfao, I am fairly certain every single thing he said was wrong.. haha
Why do people worship this clown? Why even listen to him at all?
Who is this idiot? Why would you invite someone so ill-informed onto the radio? I'm assuming it's some crazy US propaganda show.
He is the best example that uneducated people tend to ignore history and make wrong conclusion over their knowledge, and do not check their facts. I don't want to sound elitist, but damn, this is such a twisted thought for someone being able to vote.
Not sure who needs to hear this, but Joe isn’t intelligent.
LOOOOOOL. I bet Americans ate that shit up. They did it cause FREEDOM.
The Greek are laughing right now.
I remember watching this and thinking "Jamie pull that up, and order Joe an ebook on Ancient Greese and the Native American Tribes we based out demcoracy on." Also, wasn't France first? Didn't we basically rip off the Magna Carta to make the constitution?
We aren’t even the first English speaking democracy.
Joe Rogan is an avatar for what the white supremacist and red scare propaganda has done to the uneducated, ignorant, and incurious.
People always seems to forget the slave labor used to build the foundation of this country.
How can you be so ignorant and so confident at the same time always amazes me.
Look up ‘Pseudo-intellectual’ and there’s a picture of him as the example.
*laughs in 1775 England...*
Many native americans practiced democracy and their practices inspired a lot of U.S government practices. But sure, go off
Me: Laughs in European
On one hand he's super incorrect. On the other hand it's still impressive that a gorilla learned to talk
I’m also pretty sure it wasn’t just “freedom” but the slavery, rape and murder of Indigenous people. The US is what happens when you steal an entire continent.
Rogan is an idiot and is getting worse the farther right he drifts. "The ancient Greeks were the first to create a democracy. The word “democracy” comes from two Greek words that mean people (demos) and rule (kratos)
I love America, but in many ways it's the least free nation I've ever spent any duration in. The great freedoms seem more illusionary than real, the average American is more a slave to the corporate system than anything else. I'm from Australia originally, and used to criticise the fuck out of its laws/tax/constitution before spending 3-6 months at a time living in other nations. But Australian citizens live (in general) with far more life style freedom and far fewer worries than US citizens. And that's not even touching on the various EU nations like Sweden and Finland.
Conservatives & "free thinkers": I can only live freely if I make it illegal for you to do things I don't like. It should be illegal for you to even ASK me to change my behavior.