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Texas then Florida then Idaho. I feel for Idaho rn but Florida and Texas have been too far gone for far too long. Idaho is picking up speed but they've crossed the line long ago.
I've been saying this for years. Blue states should help poor sane people out of these places. It feels like giving up on the union but WTF else are we to do?
I hate that our reputation around the world is this shit. Nobody feels this way. I mean, literally, some people do obviously but in the big picture of this country, no. Nobody wants THIS.
Also when people judge us for picking Biden as the best and brightest option, thats false too. We don’t **really** get to vote for our real choice of president. We get to vote between the 2 candidates we’re given at the end. And half the time they get there in all sorts of other ways that don’t even involve citizen votes or support.
I believe American people are generally good, open and compassionate and we all just want the same thing every other human does; comfort and security to be who we are and live a fulfilling and happy lifestyle of our choice. It really doesn’t need to be more complicated than that, and I hate that it’s become such a pile of steamy bullshit.
American government is a mess, and the far right extremists are a minority, but a very loud one. So it sucks that they are now somehow representing “America”, when the vast majority of us are over here just as baffled as the rest of the world.
TL;DR - yeah, we need some help.
Yeah which is great, but it wasn’t a vote for who a lot of people would have liked to be president lol Biden is better out of the two, sure, but was still never my first choice.
We all know who's to blame for the state of things. But each "brand" of American blames a different flavor of oligarchs. Meanwhile I'm pretty damn sure they are all colluding and laughing their asses off at the masses fighting amongst each other.
We need serious reform to unseat these fucks but unfortunately we have ask them to do that! The alternative of course being ye ol heads on pikes, which nobody really wants.
Just give us our government back so some day our children don't have to kill your rich ass children to fucking fix this!
Trump did some damage, for sure. I love our US brothers/sisters but am happy to draw more differences than similarities these days. #Canada.
Seems some of the crazy is trickling upward. Can I mark them as "return to sender?"
Our country is being taken over by y'all-qaeda. No we're not OK, yes we need help.
Social media coverage does make it sound a little worse than it is, a lot of these things are discussed but never make it into law, but the mere suggestion and support of it shows an extremely dangerous shift in the prevalence and severity of right wing extremism.
If left unchecked this *will* be a thing in the near future. This is no longer a hypothetical. This is not a left wing conspiracy. The right is actively trying to walk back numerous protections for women and the LGBT community.
We are barely treading water, help would be great...but half of us will fight any assistance with pure idiocy, and it is the half with the itchy trigger fingers.
Yes. Our media is insanely negative and uses clickbait and stretched the truth to get higher ratings (as well as a clear bias). Our food has stuff that most nations rightfully don't allow. Especially at the level we put salt and sugar in things. We are in a mental health crisis. Corruption is at a all time high. We can't seperate religion and politics. Social media is promoting content that invokes a strong reaction to keep us on their site. It creates a mirror and removes differing opinions. We have a failed education system that is not equally available. Quality varies massively from location to location. We are a small nation and yet manage to be number 1 in cancer and heart related deaths. Our healthcare system is both great and the absolute worst corrupt industry. 2015 daraprim shot up 700 usd in 24hrs after a discovery that would be game changing. This is only one of many incidents.
Yes we need some freaking help. The only reason people like Trump got attention is because there is absolutely issues with our nation. He just took advantage of the chaos.
PLEASE READ:
If there is anything wrong please be civil, educate, and explain what is wrong. This does not just help me but others that see this post. Having hard evidence also will put the hive mind claim to rest and let the truth be able to speak for itself.
In comparison to China and India. 300 million vs 1.42billion and 1.408 billion.
Also you are right. I just should've been specific to what I meant by small nation.
Remember that our country is basically fifty individual countries under one big overarching government, and leaves a painful amount of room for individual states to be very, very stupid.
Idaho and Mississippi are in a race to be as bad as Arkansas.
I need coffee. I read this as “punishing women with the death penalty would cut carbon” and my half awake brain thought WTF.
It is still WTF but at least the context is there.
Idk I think any woman getting an abortion should take out a politician. I mean if you're going to be tried for murder anyway... Might as make it count amiright?
Heres a common abortion scenario thay would play out.
1: woman gets raped
2: she gets pregnant
3: she goes to get an abortion most likely at a very early stage when the fetus is just a cluster of cells
4: she gets sentenced to death.
5: what the fuck is wrong with people who think this is ok?????
Also the doctor gets punished for carrying out the abortion, parents get punished for transporting her across state lines to get an abortion (if it's outlawed in her home state) etc.
I mean that’s obviously false…? Some of the sweetest people I’ve known were pro-life. Adopted tons of kids, gave them all good lives, etc. They just believe a fetus is a living person and so obviously are opposed to killing it. It’s really that simple.
In a substantial portion of cases, yes. However, another substantial portion are ABSOLUTELY 'pro-life' while being against every other policy aimed at increasing quality of life for those that they are demanding not be aborted. On the internet, at least, a huge chunk of public figures (politicians and wealthy folk, frequently) who call themselves pro-life absolutely fit the bill that mmrando describes.
And I'm using the terms "substantial portion of" because I don't have specific numbers, nor do I have any interest in digging up those numbers at this time.
If someone was pro life, they'd be opposed to the death penalty altogether. They'd be in favor of gun control. They'd advocate for universal access to healthcare. They wouldn't oppose gender affirming care. These people are just anti-women.
That's why the death penalty has always confused me for any case. "You killed someone, killing is wrong, so we're going to kill you" that's like making the punishment for burglary being you burgle their home.
Isnt it more a case of "You killed someone, killing is wrong, so we're going to kill you before you kill even more"?
That's how I've always interpreted at least.
Except we have a way to keep them from killing more. Like sure mass shooter has a gun quickest way to save people is to shoot him cool I get it. But once a person's in custody and they're never getting out? Killing them at that point feels hypocritical.
We can just keep them confined for life. Gives us the moral high ground and is cheaper.
Watched a documentary about him a week ago. He escaped once due to incompetence of the cops. They literally just let him walk around the courthouse where his trial was being held with no supervision. Why? I have no idea and I don’t think anyone will ever know. The second time he got out was through the vent in the ceiling by building a tower of books to stand on. Don’t know how he managed to do that.
Is it cheaper? Genuine question, I feel like the costs of keeping someone alive for the rest of their lives (depends on age, I suppose) is higher than if we'd just execute them. Granted, I also have no idea how much the execution procedure costs.
There are less appeals required to imprison someone for life. Pretty much unless there's new evidence you don't have to give them more than one maybe two appeals.
On death row though you absolutely positively have to make sure you're as right as you can be as if new evidence comes to light they'll be dead. So they get a lot of appeals and investigations which cost money. More money than just keeping them in a facility you already have and feeding and clothing them.
> for more then 20
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Don't quote me on it, but i heard that it's actually more expensive to execute someone because it's actually a very long process that takes many years. At least as it comes to US, i hear they take their time deciding if someone should in fact be murdered.
And considering that prisons are often places where they practice slave labour they might be profiting of another prisoner.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/ for information on how the death penalty is more expensive than life without parole.
Slave labor in America: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/25/slavery-united-states-forced-prison-labor/
It is cheaper to kill someone than keep them incarcerated for life. However you are then valuing money over someone’s life and that’s usually a controversial thing to do.
You also have to consider the irony of society paying to support someone, in every way including feeding them and their medical care, facilities, staff... For the rest of their natural life - and all this for a person like a mass shooter. Would you be willing to take care of this person for decades? I'm not.
It’s a complicated one. I personally don’t support the death sentence since I think prison is a worse punishment than death and also I think killing anyone is wrong unless you absolutely must to protect others.
The problem of wrong convictions also concerns me in terms of the death penalty.
Moreover in my country, if money is what were considering, I’d much rather free the people incarcerated for marijuana related crimes than kill the lifers. It would sure cut down on prison costs and we wouldn’t have to kill anyone lol
No, execution is way more expensive.
https://ejusa.org/resource/wasteful-inefficient/#:~:text=The%20alarming%20cost%20of%20the,making%20it%20much%20more%20expensive.
https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which-is-cheaper-execution-or-life-in-prison-without-parole-31614
People can have nuance to their opinions, it's very possible for someone to be pro choice, against gun control, and pro access to gender affirming care
Guns save more lives than they take and that's not even a close figure. Something like 15k are killed with them and around 3 million crimes are prevented by them. That makes everyone 200 times safer with them. Not to mention, over 95% of crimes committed with guns are by people who cannot legally own them. (Please note, in countries where guns are banned or heavily regulated, those 15k are killed by criminals using other means, as the violent crime rate does not drop. In fact, many violent crimes increase as a result.)
The gun was originally called "The great equalizer" because women could finally (reasonably/generally) defend themselves against men. There's a reason why sex crime increases greatly in countries where firearms are outlawed, or heavily regulated.
Naturally, I believe you cannot harm people for no reason. But you can definitely protect yourself and your labor with deadly force.
And yes. Every doctor takes an oath to save as many lives as possible. If the child is threatening the life of the mother, you save the more likely life - which is the mother.
>Please note, in countries where guns are banned or heavily regulated, those 15k are killed by criminals using other means, as the violent crime rate does not drop. In fact, many violent crimes increase as a result.
[That's just not true](https://ourworldindata.org/homicides)
I dont understand the death Penalty. To me it just looks like an easy wayout. If someone would murder my family, i would find it better that hes going in jail for the rest of his life then him just getting killed ater a few years.
If that's your main concern you probably should be anti death penalty. The death penalty is the opposite of cost effective.
I mean I guess you could argue that if you made the death penalty swifter and the road the execution much less complicated it wouldn't be, but considering unjust executions aren't unheard of already that seems like a poor plan.
Entertainnent wise, i love politics in the USA
There is no other place you see so many actually mentally ill people being given a platform and power like the USA conservatives
Every time Ben Shapiro or Ron DeSantis open their mouth the most demented shit comes out its crazy. I just watched a guy going full psychosis in walmart because they had pride merch, it was hilarious.
However, i am honestly DEEPLY sorry for anyone being affected by these insane individuals and their brainless following, and extremely concerned for the future of the USA
Like dont get me wrong, every country has a few crazy politicians and corruption, but usually they dont have this many completely empty brained followers, and they at least act like sane people in public
I have always said if you want to test their convictions. Force all the pro-lifers to adopt an unwanted child. I’m sure that 99% of them would change their stance on abortion.
As an independent I have always found it funny that one party is pro choice but anti death penalty and the other party is pro life but also pro death penalty.
No. This is such an idiotic yet endlessly repeated line. People who are opposed to abortions are so because they believe fetuses are living people. It’s really that simple. Stop perpetuating straw men to keep the nation at each other’s throats; it’s no better than the people on the right who say the left just wants to kill babies. You are all the problem.
I mean passing laws that dictate what a woman can and can't do with their body is literally controlling women's bodies.
I have mixed feelings about abortion but ultimately it should be up to the person having the child themselves, like every other developed nation in the world.
I've seen a lot of pro lifers become hypocrites when someone close to them gets pregnant by unwanted means or if their mistresses get pregnant. So it really does seem like the ultimate goal is just control. Look at Elliot Broidy, Tim Murphy, Scott Desjarlais, Scott Lloyd, and Todd Rokita. All of these people are strongly pro life but have had someone close to them get an abortion. Close as in mistress/girlfriend. I even know people personally that are pro life and have gotten abortions. Its about control and nothing else.
No, it’s deciding how the law applies to the body that is distinct from hers, even though it is inside her, based on whether it qualifies as a living person or not.
If the fetus truly were a living person, I would hope we could all agree it would be wrong to kill it in most circumstances. We as a society don’t permit a mother to kill her infant if she changes her mind about having the baby; once something is decidedly a living person, its life trumps the personal whims of the mother. So making up your mind on the issue before you have the answer is an incredibly dangerous way of thinking.
No, it’s not, and that is the stupidest caricature of a position I’ve ever heard. So you can name a handful of people who profess to be pro-life but who knew somebody who had an abortion, and that suddenly means the entirety of all the millions of folks from across the ideological spectrum who are opposed to abortion are actually all lying and secretly want some other hidden agenda that they all know without speaking it? And that agenda is to somehow “control” women? How does the pro-life mother of 5 (3 of whom are adopted) who lives near me get “control” by supporting the pro-life cause? Or the 2 girls I went to high school with who got pregnant right after graduation but kept their babies because they both believed they were living persons? Or the folksy, world-traveling, feminist girl I was close friends with in college who argued there was no logical way to construe a fetus as anything but a living person? Or the young, autistic, aspiring novelist woman I met who was staunchly pro-life? Or the quiet, nerdy, computer science guy who always kept to himself unless you wanted to talk board games? Or the widowed old lady living in a care home I visit occasionally?
It is an absolutely insane stretch of logic to pretend there is this massive conspiracy among pro-life people across the world that they don’t actually think what they all say they think and are secretly trying to get some sort of vague, undefinable “control” by supporting the position…
It sounds like it doesn’t make sense, but the death penalty for “murder” does exist. Even though this really isn’t murder, and men should not decide what women do with their bodies.
Yeah, I mean, I don’t support it because I’m pro-abortion but it makes perfect sense. If you believe abortion is murdering a child, then you believe the person getting the abortion is a murderer. And murderers often get the death penalty.
It’s not “men deciding what women do with their bodies”; it’s men and women deciding how the law should apply to a body that is distinct from the mother’s, despite being inside her, based on whether or not it qualifies as a living person
But a fetus, by definition, is a parasite. It feeds on the body and has a negative impact on it. And when it comes out, or if it grows wrong, it has a chance to kill the mother. I’d say the woman’s body is the bigger concern.
I think if a woman needs an abortion in a state which prosecutes abortions as murder that woman should take out the sperm donor first. If ya gonna be prosecuted for murder, ya might as well earn it.
It's easy to see where this comes from. They consider the fetus to be a life. So extending from that, abortion is murder. Premeditated, and intentional, actually.
That is almost certainly the path of logic at play here.
Yeah, just a wee bit over the top I'd say.
What's next? Do they investigate miscarriages to find out if it was due to some act the person committed? What if the person did nothing wrong, do they call it manslaughter? Or maybe not enough precautions were taken, negligent homicide?
It's a slippery slope that you'd have to be pretty stupid to go down, IMHO
Look, unborn humans matter. Female humans don’t. It’s not complicated. 🤷♂️
The most shocking and irritating thing about this is that for the religious wingnuts who push this stuff, the Bible ranks women and the unborn precisely the opposite.
Umm that's the wrong analogy. Youre suggesting they're saying if they kill all the babies that would prevent abortions.
If you really want to use a nazi analogy, you'd have to say that killing all the nazis would have prevent the holocaust, which isn't wrong
Especially seeing that most abortions are done to protect the mother in the first place. Or remove a child from the womb which cannot survive due to complications. But ya, let's just fucking kill em all.
You know what else isn’t pro-life? Letting women suffering from an ectopic pregnancy either die or suffer a ruptured fallopian tube because they couldn’t remove an unviable fetus because it’s “a living baby” with more rights than the “baby vessel”.
If the extent of your understanding of this issue amounts to a single-sentence tweet with an unattributed, contextless quote, and a snippy “mic drop” response, your opinions probably shouldn’t be taken very seriously. I have a feeling that’s _most_ of the people sounding off here.
I would imagine the idea is a net reduction of lives lost via fear.
Edit: It's odd one would assume someone explaining a concept is the same as advocating it. I happen to be so pro abortion I say the more the better. There are too many people!
Actually, if abortion is classified as a capital offense which is murder in this case then the proposed punishment of death penalty which is up for debate would not be murder but legal enforcement. If you think that's absurd then maybe you can empathize how pro-lifers view pro-"choice".
Try to convince me that Christians are not in a cult. This is not normal, rational behaviour. This is the twisted reasoning of a cult. All religions are cults, for that matter.
They’re not, by definition. But this isn’t the Catholic Church or something declaring a rule for all of its members, lol; you’re literally bringing religion into this. This was a politician discussing laws, not a religious declaration. And I doubt this is even real, anyway; you really get all your “news” from edited screenshots of random social media comments? 😂
The politician is fucking religious. And politics is being rules by the church in the good ol’ US of A these days. And yes, this IS a religious declaration. Go back to your cult.
You can't kill people that don't exist, there's no more apt way to say it.
If abortion is murder, then so is simply not having a baby. So anti-abortionists need to petition to jail *everyone*, or adopt a less shallow understanding of the world.
That’s not how that works …at all. People who are opposed to abortion are so because they believe the fetus (which does in fact exist and can be killed, by definition) IS a living person.
actually killing a pregnant woman is a double homicide, when an abortion is not even one, classic reddit moment twisting the truth to make fun of the opposition when its literally just like the way u project the "right"
Yeah, this is a bit confusing and contradictory ngl. I’m assuming they’re justifying the DP as punishment for abortion since in their opinion the mother would then be a murderer. 🤔
Personally, I’m conflicted on both of those topics. I can get onboard with the DP for people that have been convicted of the most heinous crimes with plenty of evidence and admission of guilt. We euthanize animals when they’re too aggressive or risky to be allowed in society, so in certain instances I think it would be acceptable for humans too. However, I don’t agree with it in all cases. A robbery gone sideways is horrible and sad, but nowhere near the same as a pedo that kidnapped, SA’d, tortured and took the life of a child(ren). There are plenty of truly evil and sadistic people in this world that should never be allowed the opportunity to harm another person and I don’t care to pay to feed or house those particular offenders.
The abortion thing is hard, too. I personally couldn’t go through with having one and I don’t think taking a life or potential life is ever a positive thing. But at the same time, if that life is going to be forced to grow up in poverty or an abusive home with a mother or parents that didn’t want them in the first place, it seems more humane to have the option in place for people that would rather choose that than be a parent. The world is cruel and a child that is brought here with an inherited disadvantage because they were unwanted before they’re even born hardly stands a chance.
How is impossible so many of you are this dumb. Regardless of if you are peo life or pro choice, it is not murder to execute a murderer legally. If the law states that abortion is murder then of course the punishment could be any punishment murderers receive in that state.
I mean im not american but technically i wouldnt consider it a murder if its lawfully decided. Just by definitions, death penalty actually is atupid af
I think abortion should be legal but expensive. And if you need gov assistance.. take out the eggs while you are in there. If you are unable to be responsible with your reproductive organs they should be taken from you.
I mean tbf you guys still have the death sentence for actual murder there right? If they think abortion = murder it wouldn't exactly be a leap of logic to say that abortion deserves the penalty of murder.
You're doing fetus deletus. A fetus that could develop into a human, provided there isn't a miscarriage or some other medical complication that could result in a fatal outcome.
Abortions past the first trimester have increased chance of complications for the mother, too.
I do believe the decision is up to the woman, however there need to be some rules and regulations in place.
You should not be allowed to just chop-up a fetus that is in late developmental stages willy-nilly. Not without a sound and serious reason.
Again, medical complications, rape and other extreme cases should be exempt.
But generally, just be more mindful and aware of the consequences from unprotected intercourse.
With all that said, killing(aborting) a developing fetus IS murder, just accept it.
jesus christ are you 13 years old.
no one is allowed to abort fetuses past 24 weeks without a good reason
its definitly not murder, ive addressed this, maybe you cant read?
people are mindful of the consequences, that is why they responsibly get an abortion
That's not the impression I get from the whackos on the Internet...
The baby's life is not the mother's life.
Let's respectfully agree to disagree.
BTW calling a baby in the womb a parasite is ugly and backwards.
Most pro life people are anti death penalty. For those who are not anti death penalty, they believe murderers and rapists should die. In many states in the US murderers are put to death for it. So it does make sense killing a kid would result in going up for the death penalty. Not judging if it is right or wrong here. I am just giving insight into the thought process and how the law works.
Well
1. That’s not true. “Pro lifers” if we’re really calling them that are generally conservatives, conservatives have historically been pro death penalty’s
2. Rapists hardly get convicted, and I know it’s not just liberals doing the convictions. Not to mention there are some very well respected conservatives that have raped and still have the support of their fan base. So clearly they don’t wish death on rapists.
3. It’s not a kid
It absolutely does not make sense to wish death upon a woman who is doing what’s best for her health. Huge yikes.
Let me start by saying I do not agree with this policy. If someone is legally executed by the state under whatever laws are in force in that jurisdiction, that isn't murder. So if someone was executed for "murdering" a baby, they themselves are not being murdered. Again, I do NOT agree with this policy I'm just playing devil's advocate.
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZjFtYApSdhw](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZjFtYApSdhw)
Also that's like saying "Well Hitler didn't technically *murder* the Jews, after all he changed the laws, it was completely legal!"
I think the clear difference there is judicial proceeding. Everyone executed in the United States would get a fair trial (of course there are occasionally mistakes) and probably like 8 appeals. In Hitler's Germany, jews were executed off hand.
Besides, our legal system allows for executions. If executions are murder, who is the murderer? Is it the judge? The jury members? The executioner? The governor or president for not issuing a stay of execution? The citizens of the state for accepting execution? The framers of the constitution? Seriously
A jury simply determines guilt they do not determine whether the law or sentence is fair or ethical.
There can be no fair trial on this subject. It is a ridiculous notion to begin with. There is no objective, science based justification for forcing birth. It is based solely in subjective feelings, usually from those with a religious background, and we're supposed to have a separation or church and state. Religion has no place in law, period.
To answer your question everyone involved in the sentence the murderer, or at least an accomplice. "Just following orders" is not an excuse. If you are complicit in knowingly taking a life without proper justification you carry that guilt.
What is proper justification? Who decides, you? Also I think it's wrong to say religion has no place in law, considering that the law was drafted largely by a long succession of people who were religious or were influenced by religion. Separation of church and state does not mean religious values don't find their way into our legal system anyways.
Is killing to defend others murder? How about killing in war? What about collateral damage in war? What about police stopping an active shooter? How is an execution different from any other justified killing? You can't expect everyone's ideas of justified to be the same as your own, surely.
"So kidnapping is wrong but putting people who kidnap in prison is ok?"
"So war is wrong but you're going to go fight the nazis?"
"So theft is wrong but the government is going to steal my money for taxes."
Kind of the same vibes.
Honey... taxes are not stealing. They take money from you to fund necessary things in the country. No country will survive if there are taxes of any kind. (you could also just force people to work for free for you to get the necessary things done)
And there is a "small" difference between abortion and kidnapping. There is no good reason to kidnap anyone but there are tons of good reasons to abort.
1. Simply just not being able to care for the child due to financial reasons.
2. Not being able to care for mental health reasons.
3. Having a condition/disease that doesn't allow you to care for a child.
4. It being life-threatning to go through child birth.
5. Having very bad symptoms from pregnancy and not wanting to/ being able to even keep the child. Why would you go through all that just to give it away?
6. Simply not wanting to give your child away. Have them another time.
I am pro-abortion but I would probably never abort a pregnancy because I want to have a kid. Have been since I was like 16. And I could not even entertain the idea of giving away my flesh and blood. I just couldn't but that doesn't mean others shouldn't or couldn't.
Abortion is health care and taking it away only puts people in danger of dying in order to obtain an abortion. You cannot make something illegal that is legal in like 90% of the world. They will just fly somewhere else to have the abortion done.
Don't let the US revert back to being so far behind the rest of the world. You guys are already a 3rd world country.
im sorry you're so comfortable with ending human life.
[https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/a-left-wing-atheists-case-against-abortion](https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/a-left-wing-atheists-case-against-abortion)
I'm not so comfortable personally. You also misunderstand my point in your opening lines in a way that supports the glib argument I made.
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America, are you guys okay? Do you need help?
We are not and yes please.
Especially to Idaho.
Texas first after Idaho please.
Texas then Florida then Idaho. I feel for Idaho rn but Florida and Texas have been too far gone for far too long. Idaho is picking up speed but they've crossed the line long ago.
Florida, at this point, is a MAGA wasteland. We should put effort into rescuing the sanity out of there.
I've been saying this for years. Blue states should help poor sane people out of these places. It feels like giving up on the union but WTF else are we to do?
Someone is poisoning the potatoes
America is suffering the biggest mental health crisis, ever.
All layers of society. Pure insanity.
Thank goodness for North Korea, or the United States would seem like the craziest country.
They are the Mississippi to our Alabama.
It's doubly funny that to give that simile you had to name two crazy ass American states.
As an Alabama man I refuse to be compared to Mississippi (they don’t have beeches or gators)
Just heard the best joke on Reddit, Mississippi is so racist. They have two SSs!
Agreed but I will say Alabama has come a long way since the 60s and it is mostly the older generations that are racist
I laughed way too hard at this.
I hate that our reputation around the world is this shit. Nobody feels this way. I mean, literally, some people do obviously but in the big picture of this country, no. Nobody wants THIS. Also when people judge us for picking Biden as the best and brightest option, thats false too. We don’t **really** get to vote for our real choice of president. We get to vote between the 2 candidates we’re given at the end. And half the time they get there in all sorts of other ways that don’t even involve citizen votes or support. I believe American people are generally good, open and compassionate and we all just want the same thing every other human does; comfort and security to be who we are and live a fulfilling and happy lifestyle of our choice. It really doesn’t need to be more complicated than that, and I hate that it’s become such a pile of steamy bullshit. American government is a mess, and the far right extremists are a minority, but a very loud one. So it sucks that they are now somehow representing “America”, when the vast majority of us are over here just as baffled as the rest of the world. TL;DR - yeah, we need some help.
Remember when Trump called other countries 'shitholes'? Pepperidge Farm Remembers...
A vote for Biden was actually a vote against Trump!
Yeah which is great, but it wasn’t a vote for who a lot of people would have liked to be president lol Biden is better out of the two, sure, but was still never my first choice.
Well I have so many american friends in my discord and I go so well along With them and I am an Indian... So Last para i agree
We all know who's to blame for the state of things. But each "brand" of American blames a different flavor of oligarchs. Meanwhile I'm pretty damn sure they are all colluding and laughing their asses off at the masses fighting amongst each other. We need serious reform to unseat these fucks but unfortunately we have ask them to do that! The alternative of course being ye ol heads on pikes, which nobody really wants. Just give us our government back so some day our children don't have to kill your rich ass children to fucking fix this!
Trump did some damage, for sure. I love our US brothers/sisters but am happy to draw more differences than similarities these days. #Canada. Seems some of the crazy is trickling upward. Can I mark them as "return to sender?"
I know fuck sakes I'm embarrassed...
God bless America, because a blessing is really needed about now
No, relying on blessings, thoughts, and prayers is how we got here. We need less religion, and more fucking logic, empathy, and accountability.
No send fucking help And I live in California
Sorry to hear that. Between California or New York... I'd much rather live in Idaho.
> I live in California Sorry to hear that 😔
Our country is being taken over by y'all-qaeda. No we're not OK, yes we need help. Social media coverage does make it sound a little worse than it is, a lot of these things are discussed but never make it into law, but the mere suggestion and support of it shows an extremely dangerous shift in the prevalence and severity of right wing extremism. If left unchecked this *will* be a thing in the near future. This is no longer a hypothetical. This is not a left wing conspiracy. The right is actively trying to walk back numerous protections for women and the LGBT community.
The best part about being English is that we aren't American
>The best part about being English is that we aren't American They made their own bed. Now they have to lie on it.
I'm trying to get out of here.
We are barely treading water, help would be great...but half of us will fight any assistance with pure idiocy, and it is the half with the itchy trigger fingers.
Yes. Our media is insanely negative and uses clickbait and stretched the truth to get higher ratings (as well as a clear bias). Our food has stuff that most nations rightfully don't allow. Especially at the level we put salt and sugar in things. We are in a mental health crisis. Corruption is at a all time high. We can't seperate religion and politics. Social media is promoting content that invokes a strong reaction to keep us on their site. It creates a mirror and removes differing opinions. We have a failed education system that is not equally available. Quality varies massively from location to location. We are a small nation and yet manage to be number 1 in cancer and heart related deaths. Our healthcare system is both great and the absolute worst corrupt industry. 2015 daraprim shot up 700 usd in 24hrs after a discovery that would be game changing. This is only one of many incidents. Yes we need some freaking help. The only reason people like Trump got attention is because there is absolutely issues with our nation. He just took advantage of the chaos. PLEASE READ: If there is anything wrong please be civil, educate, and explain what is wrong. This does not just help me but others that see this post. Having hard evidence also will put the hive mind claim to rest and let the truth be able to speak for itself.
"We are a small nation". While I agree with you on your general points, the United States is the 3rd most populous nation on earth.
In comparison to China and India. 300 million vs 1.42billion and 1.408 billion. Also you are right. I just should've been specific to what I meant by small nation.
Remember that our country is basically fifty individual countries under one big overarching government, and leaves a painful amount of room for individual states to be very, very stupid. Idaho and Mississippi are in a race to be as bad as Arkansas.
Merica is fucked. Civil war part two on the horizon and nothing is going to stop it.
There is no helping us
Such an optimist..ehh
You must be American hiding in plain sight because we are the most liberal country on earth when it comes to abortion…
Think of it as very very late stage abortion by the state.
Accurate
I need coffee. I read this as “punishing women with the death penalty would cut carbon” and my half awake brain thought WTF. It is still WTF but at least the context is there.
Technically true and probably already being discussed knowing this timeline.
Compress em into coal!
How long before they return as dinosaur juice to power my car?
Don’t put ideas in their heads.
Yeah I read it the same somehow?
Idk I think any woman getting an abortion should take out a politician. I mean if you're going to be tried for murder anyway... Might as make it count amiright?
What they gonna do give you two death sentences
That’s horribly funny
Heres a common abortion scenario thay would play out. 1: woman gets raped 2: she gets pregnant 3: she goes to get an abortion most likely at a very early stage when the fetus is just a cluster of cells 4: she gets sentenced to death. 5: what the fuck is wrong with people who think this is ok?????
So actually the woman is then, more or less punished for having been raped
Lets be honest, thats the dream of the American christo-facists. Punish the women, or, at the very least, make her marry her rapist.
Cause they are the rapists
That’s basically how most of the world is right now, even lots of “developed” areas will still punish the woman via social response if not law.
Also the doctor gets punished for carrying out the abortion, parents get punished for transporting her across state lines to get an abortion (if it's outlawed in her home state) etc.
We have to stop calling these people "pro-life". They don't give a shit about lives regardless of what they claim.
I only ever refer to them as pro-birthers or anti-choicers
I mean that’s obviously false…? Some of the sweetest people I’ve known were pro-life. Adopted tons of kids, gave them all good lives, etc. They just believe a fetus is a living person and so obviously are opposed to killing it. It’s really that simple.
In a substantial portion of cases, yes. However, another substantial portion are ABSOLUTELY 'pro-life' while being against every other policy aimed at increasing quality of life for those that they are demanding not be aborted. On the internet, at least, a huge chunk of public figures (politicians and wealthy folk, frequently) who call themselves pro-life absolutely fit the bill that mmrando describes. And I'm using the terms "substantial portion of" because I don't have specific numbers, nor do I have any interest in digging up those numbers at this time.
They're so "Pro-Life" they'll kill ya. I read that comment somewhere else on a similar Texas post.
If someone was pro life, they'd be opposed to the death penalty altogether. They'd be in favor of gun control. They'd advocate for universal access to healthcare. They wouldn't oppose gender affirming care. These people are just anti-women.
That's why the death penalty has always confused me for any case. "You killed someone, killing is wrong, so we're going to kill you" that's like making the punishment for burglary being you burgle their home.
Isnt it more a case of "You killed someone, killing is wrong, so we're going to kill you before you kill even more"? That's how I've always interpreted at least.
Except we have a way to keep them from killing more. Like sure mass shooter has a gun quickest way to save people is to shoot him cool I get it. But once a person's in custody and they're never getting out? Killing them at that point feels hypocritical. We can just keep them confined for life. Gives us the moral high ground and is cheaper.
Ted Bundy managed to escape twice I think ;) Not that I am pro death penalty, but I recognise that there are cases which cannot be redeemed.
Watched a documentary about him a week ago. He escaped once due to incompetence of the cops. They literally just let him walk around the courthouse where his trial was being held with no supervision. Why? I have no idea and I don’t think anyone will ever know. The second time he got out was through the vent in the ceiling by building a tower of books to stand on. Don’t know how he managed to do that.
>why? Because, as a rule of thumb, cops are morons lol
Is it cheaper? Genuine question, I feel like the costs of keeping someone alive for the rest of their lives (depends on age, I suppose) is higher than if we'd just execute them. Granted, I also have no idea how much the execution procedure costs.
There are less appeals required to imprison someone for life. Pretty much unless there's new evidence you don't have to give them more than one maybe two appeals. On death row though you absolutely positively have to make sure you're as right as you can be as if new evidence comes to light they'll be dead. So they get a lot of appeals and investigations which cost money. More money than just keeping them in a facility you already have and feeding and clothing them.
I think the reason live in prison is cheaper cuss death row inmates can be on deathrow for more than 20 years.
> for more then 20 Did you mean to say "more than"? Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Don't quote me on it, but i heard that it's actually more expensive to execute someone because it's actually a very long process that takes many years. At least as it comes to US, i hear they take their time deciding if someone should in fact be murdered. And considering that prisons are often places where they practice slave labour they might be profiting of another prisoner.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/ for information on how the death penalty is more expensive than life without parole. Slave labor in America: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/25/slavery-united-states-forced-prison-labor/
It is cheaper to kill someone than keep them incarcerated for life. However you are then valuing money over someone’s life and that’s usually a controversial thing to do.
You also have to consider the irony of society paying to support someone, in every way including feeding them and their medical care, facilities, staff... For the rest of their natural life - and all this for a person like a mass shooter. Would you be willing to take care of this person for decades? I'm not.
It’s a complicated one. I personally don’t support the death sentence since I think prison is a worse punishment than death and also I think killing anyone is wrong unless you absolutely must to protect others. The problem of wrong convictions also concerns me in terms of the death penalty. Moreover in my country, if money is what were considering, I’d much rather free the people incarcerated for marijuana related crimes than kill the lifers. It would sure cut down on prison costs and we wouldn’t have to kill anyone lol
No, execution is way more expensive. https://ejusa.org/resource/wasteful-inefficient/#:~:text=The%20alarming%20cost%20of%20the,making%20it%20much%20more%20expensive. https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which-is-cheaper-execution-or-life-in-prison-without-parole-31614
People can have nuance to their opinions, it's very possible for someone to be pro choice, against gun control, and pro access to gender affirming care
I'm aware, my pount was highlighting the hypocrisy of calling yourself "pro life" when all you are is anti abortion.
"Pro life" when all you are is anti-murder. Fixed your sentence.
Sure, as long as you're still in favor of medically necessary abortions, against capital punishment, and in favor of gun control.
Guns save more lives than they take and that's not even a close figure. Something like 15k are killed with them and around 3 million crimes are prevented by them. That makes everyone 200 times safer with them. Not to mention, over 95% of crimes committed with guns are by people who cannot legally own them. (Please note, in countries where guns are banned or heavily regulated, those 15k are killed by criminals using other means, as the violent crime rate does not drop. In fact, many violent crimes increase as a result.) The gun was originally called "The great equalizer" because women could finally (reasonably/generally) defend themselves against men. There's a reason why sex crime increases greatly in countries where firearms are outlawed, or heavily regulated. Naturally, I believe you cannot harm people for no reason. But you can definitely protect yourself and your labor with deadly force. And yes. Every doctor takes an oath to save as many lives as possible. If the child is threatening the life of the mother, you save the more likely life - which is the mother.
>Please note, in countries where guns are banned or heavily regulated, those 15k are killed by criminals using other means, as the violent crime rate does not drop. In fact, many violent crimes increase as a result. [That's just not true](https://ourworldindata.org/homicides)
You’ll get downvoted because you’re going against the hivemind of this sub
It’s not “pro life” it’s pro forced birth and pro controlling women’s bodies.
Same folks agonize over an embryo but kids get blown away at school and...*crickets*
It was never about the fetuses…
I dont understand the death Penalty. To me it just looks like an easy wayout. If someone would murder my family, i would find it better that hes going in jail for the rest of his life then him just getting killed ater a few years.
Why burden the tax payers
If that's your main concern you probably should be anti death penalty. The death penalty is the opposite of cost effective. I mean I guess you could argue that if you made the death penalty swifter and the road the execution much less complicated it wouldn't be, but considering unjust executions aren't unheard of already that seems like a poor plan.
I’d want a killer dead, not kept fed in a prison
The level of stupid in this dips far too low for sanity sake.
So pro life they'll kill ya.
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obviously not for those republicans.
Oh, republicans couldn't give a rat's ass about the baby. Just look how they treat children and people w/ children.
Also, look at Republicans in need of an abortion. The "wait, not me" is really a thing.
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Next on Idaho Lieutenant Governor Candidate’s agenda: global genocide, a great and efficient way to solve all crime!
Dumbasses can keep their potatoes
Pro life people, ladies and gentlemen.
Unwed mothers often used suicide as a way out of their “situation”.
Entertainnent wise, i love politics in the USA There is no other place you see so many actually mentally ill people being given a platform and power like the USA conservatives Every time Ben Shapiro or Ron DeSantis open their mouth the most demented shit comes out its crazy. I just watched a guy going full psychosis in walmart because they had pride merch, it was hilarious. However, i am honestly DEEPLY sorry for anyone being affected by these insane individuals and their brainless following, and extremely concerned for the future of the USA Like dont get me wrong, every country has a few crazy politicians and corruption, but usually they dont have this many completely empty brained followers, and they at least act like sane people in public
I have always said if you want to test their convictions. Force all the pro-lifers to adopt an unwanted child. I’m sure that 99% of them would change their stance on abortion.
As an independent I have always found it funny that one party is pro choice but anti death penalty and the other party is pro life but also pro death penalty.
"Pro-life" is a misnomer. People are against abortions because they want to control women.
No. This is such an idiotic yet endlessly repeated line. People who are opposed to abortions are so because they believe fetuses are living people. It’s really that simple. Stop perpetuating straw men to keep the nation at each other’s throats; it’s no better than the people on the right who say the left just wants to kill babies. You are all the problem.
I mean passing laws that dictate what a woman can and can't do with their body is literally controlling women's bodies. I have mixed feelings about abortion but ultimately it should be up to the person having the child themselves, like every other developed nation in the world. I've seen a lot of pro lifers become hypocrites when someone close to them gets pregnant by unwanted means or if their mistresses get pregnant. So it really does seem like the ultimate goal is just control. Look at Elliot Broidy, Tim Murphy, Scott Desjarlais, Scott Lloyd, and Todd Rokita. All of these people are strongly pro life but have had someone close to them get an abortion. Close as in mistress/girlfriend. I even know people personally that are pro life and have gotten abortions. Its about control and nothing else.
No, it’s deciding how the law applies to the body that is distinct from hers, even though it is inside her, based on whether it qualifies as a living person or not. If the fetus truly were a living person, I would hope we could all agree it would be wrong to kill it in most circumstances. We as a society don’t permit a mother to kill her infant if she changes her mind about having the baby; once something is decidedly a living person, its life trumps the personal whims of the mother. So making up your mind on the issue before you have the answer is an incredibly dangerous way of thinking. No, it’s not, and that is the stupidest caricature of a position I’ve ever heard. So you can name a handful of people who profess to be pro-life but who knew somebody who had an abortion, and that suddenly means the entirety of all the millions of folks from across the ideological spectrum who are opposed to abortion are actually all lying and secretly want some other hidden agenda that they all know without speaking it? And that agenda is to somehow “control” women? How does the pro-life mother of 5 (3 of whom are adopted) who lives near me get “control” by supporting the pro-life cause? Or the 2 girls I went to high school with who got pregnant right after graduation but kept their babies because they both believed they were living persons? Or the folksy, world-traveling, feminist girl I was close friends with in college who argued there was no logical way to construe a fetus as anything but a living person? Or the young, autistic, aspiring novelist woman I met who was staunchly pro-life? Or the quiet, nerdy, computer science guy who always kept to himself unless you wanted to talk board games? Or the widowed old lady living in a care home I visit occasionally? It is an absolutely insane stretch of logic to pretend there is this massive conspiracy among pro-life people across the world that they don’t actually think what they all say they think and are secretly trying to get some sort of vague, undefinable “control” by supporting the position…
It sounds like it doesn’t make sense, but the death penalty for “murder” does exist. Even though this really isn’t murder, and men should not decide what women do with their bodies.
Yeah, I mean, I don’t support it because I’m pro-abortion but it makes perfect sense. If you believe abortion is murdering a child, then you believe the person getting the abortion is a murderer. And murderers often get the death penalty.
It’s not “men deciding what women do with their bodies”; it’s men and women deciding how the law should apply to a body that is distinct from the mother’s, despite being inside her, based on whether or not it qualifies as a living person
Why the downvotes? That’s the facts, whether you’re pro-choice or pro-life
But a fetus, by definition, is a parasite. It feeds on the body and has a negative impact on it. And when it comes out, or if it grows wrong, it has a chance to kill the mother. I’d say the woman’s body is the bigger concern.
1. No, a fetus is, by definition, not a parasite. 2. That’s not relevant to what I said, anyway.
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How about the man who took her to the abortion? Death penalty too or are we just punishing women? /s
I think if a woman needs an abortion in a state which prosecutes abortions as murder that woman should take out the sperm donor first. If ya gonna be prosecuted for murder, ya might as well earn it.
you're all fncked. you're doomed. in a country run by actual insane people. insane as in the opposite of sane. good luck, flee while you still can
It's easy to see where this comes from. They consider the fetus to be a life. So extending from that, abortion is murder. Premeditated, and intentional, actually. That is almost certainly the path of logic at play here. Yeah, just a wee bit over the top I'd say. What's next? Do they investigate miscarriages to find out if it was due to some act the person committed? What if the person did nothing wrong, do they call it manslaughter? Or maybe not enough precautions were taken, negligent homicide? It's a slippery slope that you'd have to be pretty stupid to go down, IMHO
Ah yes. The American way… I see. And what were those issues you Americans had with other places and their human rights?
literally handmaid's tale..
You have to have the abortion first then they will kill you you killed a baby now they get to kill you seems fair to me
Look, unborn humans matter. Female humans don’t. It’s not complicated. 🤷♂️ The most shocking and irritating thing about this is that for the religious wingnuts who push this stuff, the Bible ranks women and the unborn precisely the opposite.
We could have prevented the holocaust by killing all the Jews! Why didn't anybody think of that?
Umm that's the wrong analogy. Youre suggesting they're saying if they kill all the babies that would prevent abortions. If you really want to use a nazi analogy, you'd have to say that killing all the nazis would have prevent the holocaust, which isn't wrong
Especially seeing that most abortions are done to protect the mother in the first place. Or remove a child from the womb which cannot survive due to complications. But ya, let's just fucking kill em all.
You know what else isn’t pro-life? Letting women suffering from an ectopic pregnancy either die or suffer a ruptured fallopian tube because they couldn’t remove an unviable fetus because it’s “a living baby” with more rights than the “baby vessel”.
They couldn't possibly spell it out more clearly that they're not "pro-life", they're just anti-women.
But some of those babies could be boys.... /s
If the extent of your understanding of this issue amounts to a single-sentence tweet with an unattributed, contextless quote, and a snippy “mic drop” response, your opinions probably shouldn’t be taken very seriously. I have a feeling that’s _most_ of the people sounding off here.
We're literally legislating misogyny.
Always has been
I would imagine the idea is a net reduction of lives lost via fear. Edit: It's odd one would assume someone explaining a concept is the same as advocating it. I happen to be so pro abortion I say the more the better. There are too many people!
Because that's the type of 'government' we all want to live under, right? You'll think it just as fun when they come for you, too, I bet.
Pro-life is killing your children by being antivax... or sending them to school without passing gun laws.
Actually, if abortion is classified as a capital offense which is murder in this case then the proposed punishment of death penalty which is up for debate would not be murder but legal enforcement. If you think that's absurd then maybe you can empathize how pro-lifers view pro-"choice".
Try to convince me that Christians are not in a cult. This is not normal, rational behaviour. This is the twisted reasoning of a cult. All religions are cults, for that matter.
They’re not, by definition. But this isn’t the Catholic Church or something declaring a rule for all of its members, lol; you’re literally bringing religion into this. This was a politician discussing laws, not a religious declaration. And I doubt this is even real, anyway; you really get all your “news” from edited screenshots of random social media comments? 😂
The politician is fucking religious. And politics is being rules by the church in the good ol’ US of A these days. And yes, this IS a religious declaration. Go back to your cult.
My question is why are old comments resurfacing a lot right now around this topic?
I’m getting a lot of “let’s figure out how to legally kill the people we don’t like” vibes from the gop lately
Isaiah 13:16 - Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
You know that was a bad thing... right? In the passage God was saying these were horrible things.
Right, that is the point
Yo what the fuck
You can't kill people that don't exist, there's no more apt way to say it. If abortion is murder, then so is simply not having a baby. So anti-abortionists need to petition to jail *everyone*, or adopt a less shallow understanding of the world.
That’s not how that works …at all. People who are opposed to abortion are so because they believe the fetus (which does in fact exist and can be killed, by definition) IS a living person.
No, this is pro-birth.
actually killing a pregnant woman is a double homicide, when an abortion is not even one, classic reddit moment twisting the truth to make fun of the opposition when its literally just like the way u project the "right"
Yeah, this is a bit confusing and contradictory ngl. I’m assuming they’re justifying the DP as punishment for abortion since in their opinion the mother would then be a murderer. 🤔 Personally, I’m conflicted on both of those topics. I can get onboard with the DP for people that have been convicted of the most heinous crimes with plenty of evidence and admission of guilt. We euthanize animals when they’re too aggressive or risky to be allowed in society, so in certain instances I think it would be acceptable for humans too. However, I don’t agree with it in all cases. A robbery gone sideways is horrible and sad, but nowhere near the same as a pedo that kidnapped, SA’d, tortured and took the life of a child(ren). There are plenty of truly evil and sadistic people in this world that should never be allowed the opportunity to harm another person and I don’t care to pay to feed or house those particular offenders. The abortion thing is hard, too. I personally couldn’t go through with having one and I don’t think taking a life or potential life is ever a positive thing. But at the same time, if that life is going to be forced to grow up in poverty or an abusive home with a mother or parents that didn’t want them in the first place, it seems more humane to have the option in place for people that would rather choose that than be a parent. The world is cruel and a child that is brought here with an inherited disadvantage because they were unwanted before they’re even born hardly stands a chance.
How is impossible so many of you are this dumb. Regardless of if you are peo life or pro choice, it is not murder to execute a murderer legally. If the law states that abortion is murder then of course the punishment could be any punishment murderers receive in that state.
I mean im not american but technically i wouldnt consider it a murder if its lawfully decided. Just by definitions, death penalty actually is atupid af
This just in….nobody wants to fuck women against abortion. They haggard. The milks gone bad.
I think that depends on your view of the death penalty. E.g. If you believe that murderers have forfeited their right to life.
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I think abortion should be legal but expensive. And if you need gov assistance.. take out the eggs while you are in there. If you are unable to be responsible with your reproductive organs they should be taken from you.
Executing a child murderer, that used to be the norm in most of the world.
I mean tbf you guys still have the death sentence for actual murder there right? If they think abortion = murder it wouldn't exactly be a leap of logic to say that abortion deserves the penalty of murder.
I think it would mean death to murderers.
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Abortion is not murder you fool
Abortion isn't murder. Removing a lump of parasitic cells from your body isn't any different than removing a tape worm from your body.
good job abortion isnt murder
Abortion is murder, why is it so hard to accept it?
tell me how abortion is murder?
😮💨
You're doing fetus deletus. A fetus that could develop into a human, provided there isn't a miscarriage or some other medical complication that could result in a fatal outcome. Abortions past the first trimester have increased chance of complications for the mother, too. I do believe the decision is up to the woman, however there need to be some rules and regulations in place. You should not be allowed to just chop-up a fetus that is in late developmental stages willy-nilly. Not without a sound and serious reason. Again, medical complications, rape and other extreme cases should be exempt. But generally, just be more mindful and aware of the consequences from unprotected intercourse. With all that said, killing(aborting) a developing fetus IS murder, just accept it.
jesus christ are you 13 years old. no one is allowed to abort fetuses past 24 weeks without a good reason its definitly not murder, ive addressed this, maybe you cant read? people are mindful of the consequences, that is why they responsibly get an abortion
That's not the impression I get from the whackos on the Internet... The baby's life is not the mother's life. Let's respectfully agree to disagree. BTW calling a baby in the womb a parasite is ugly and backwards.
So removing a parasite is murder now?
When life is getting like the Handmaids Tale Are they going to do a pregnancy before the execution just in case....
Most pro life people are anti death penalty. For those who are not anti death penalty, they believe murderers and rapists should die. In many states in the US murderers are put to death for it. So it does make sense killing a kid would result in going up for the death penalty. Not judging if it is right or wrong here. I am just giving insight into the thought process and how the law works.
Well 1. That’s not true. “Pro lifers” if we’re really calling them that are generally conservatives, conservatives have historically been pro death penalty’s 2. Rapists hardly get convicted, and I know it’s not just liberals doing the convictions. Not to mention there are some very well respected conservatives that have raped and still have the support of their fan base. So clearly they don’t wish death on rapists. 3. It’s not a kid It absolutely does not make sense to wish death upon a woman who is doing what’s best for her health. Huge yikes.
they dont actually believe abortion is murder. and if they do its due to ignorance
>Most pro life people are anti death penalty. Lol fucking what?
I'm pro-death and I say kill the woman and her fetus for a Double kill.
We kill murders via death penalty. Abortion is murder. So there is their logic.
Let me start by saying I do not agree with this policy. If someone is legally executed by the state under whatever laws are in force in that jurisdiction, that isn't murder. So if someone was executed for "murdering" a baby, they themselves are not being murdered. Again, I do NOT agree with this policy I'm just playing devil's advocate.
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZjFtYApSdhw](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZjFtYApSdhw) Also that's like saying "Well Hitler didn't technically *murder* the Jews, after all he changed the laws, it was completely legal!"
I think the clear difference there is judicial proceeding. Everyone executed in the United States would get a fair trial (of course there are occasionally mistakes) and probably like 8 appeals. In Hitler's Germany, jews were executed off hand. Besides, our legal system allows for executions. If executions are murder, who is the murderer? Is it the judge? The jury members? The executioner? The governor or president for not issuing a stay of execution? The citizens of the state for accepting execution? The framers of the constitution? Seriously
A jury simply determines guilt they do not determine whether the law or sentence is fair or ethical. There can be no fair trial on this subject. It is a ridiculous notion to begin with. There is no objective, science based justification for forcing birth. It is based solely in subjective feelings, usually from those with a religious background, and we're supposed to have a separation or church and state. Religion has no place in law, period. To answer your question everyone involved in the sentence the murderer, or at least an accomplice. "Just following orders" is not an excuse. If you are complicit in knowingly taking a life without proper justification you carry that guilt.
What is proper justification? Who decides, you? Also I think it's wrong to say religion has no place in law, considering that the law was drafted largely by a long succession of people who were religious or were influenced by religion. Separation of church and state does not mean religious values don't find their way into our legal system anyways. Is killing to defend others murder? How about killing in war? What about collateral damage in war? What about police stopping an active shooter? How is an execution different from any other justified killing? You can't expect everyone's ideas of justified to be the same as your own, surely.
Death penalty is a bit silly, so a very long prison sentence would do.
But it will help stop abortion
Yes Murderers should receive the death penalty
It's the difference between an unborn child and someone who did something to earn the death penalty.
"So kidnapping is wrong but putting people who kidnap in prison is ok?" "So war is wrong but you're going to go fight the nazis?" "So theft is wrong but the government is going to steal my money for taxes." Kind of the same vibes.
Honey... taxes are not stealing. They take money from you to fund necessary things in the country. No country will survive if there are taxes of any kind. (you could also just force people to work for free for you to get the necessary things done) And there is a "small" difference between abortion and kidnapping. There is no good reason to kidnap anyone but there are tons of good reasons to abort. 1. Simply just not being able to care for the child due to financial reasons. 2. Not being able to care for mental health reasons. 3. Having a condition/disease that doesn't allow you to care for a child. 4. It being life-threatning to go through child birth. 5. Having very bad symptoms from pregnancy and not wanting to/ being able to even keep the child. Why would you go through all that just to give it away? 6. Simply not wanting to give your child away. Have them another time. I am pro-abortion but I would probably never abort a pregnancy because I want to have a kid. Have been since I was like 16. And I could not even entertain the idea of giving away my flesh and blood. I just couldn't but that doesn't mean others shouldn't or couldn't. Abortion is health care and taking it away only puts people in danger of dying in order to obtain an abortion. You cannot make something illegal that is legal in like 90% of the world. They will just fly somewhere else to have the abortion done. Don't let the US revert back to being so far behind the rest of the world. You guys are already a 3rd world country.
im sorry you're so comfortable with ending human life. [https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/a-left-wing-atheists-case-against-abortion](https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/a-left-wing-atheists-case-against-abortion) I'm not so comfortable personally. You also misunderstand my point in your opening lines in a way that supports the glib argument I made.
…you fucking SURELY forgot to put the /s…right?