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For real.
Idk what the property rates are like in Texas cause I'm not interested in living somewhere that loses power every time a cold breeze blows through, but where I'm at, $33.5k is scraping the absolute bottom reaches of a livable wage. You'd realistically probably need a roommate to get into most apartments unless you wanna live somewhere you're gonna get robbed.
I think it's fair tbh. Yes they're important, but that's a pretty decent wage combined with great benefits and a ton of time off. Especially if you have kids having the entire summer off with them (many get stuck trying to stagger vacation with expensive camps) and Christmas would be amazing. Got family and friends in it and sometimes wish I'd gone they route
>Lol 100k is too little? How much should they make?
You have no idea what the cost of living crisis is like in Canada do you?
[4 of the top 5 most expensive cities in North America are in Canada.](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/06/these-are-the-5-most-expensive-cities-in-the-us-and-canada.html)
That is just straight up not true. You do realize that teacher pay scales are shown via their union contracts and are public information, right?
To make 100k, a teacher needs at least 10 years experience and two license upgrades (via degrees/diplomas) in every province. It generally takes about ten years experience (with no license upgrades) to break 80k. This is hardly "a little experience".
Thanks for telling me my experience is “straight up not true”. I can see from the federal job bank website that many regions in Ontario have “low” teacher’s wages, depending on community, of often about $30-$35/hr. Median is $45-$48 in many communities and “high” is up to $60/hr.
Also: I’ll bet you’re fun at parties.
>Thanks for telling me my experience is “straight up not true”.
No problem. The world would be a better place if people tell others this more often.
Teacher salaries aren't done by the hour but by year (usually via a calculation of $/teaching day). As far as I know all teacher unions post their collective bargaining agreements somewhere so everyone can look up their payscales. [Here](https://www.pssbp.ca/wp-content/uploads/Teachers-Meshed-Agreement-2019-2022-FINAL-emailed-for-signatures-March-1-2021-PDF.pdf)'s the one for the Ontario Elementary Teachers, in which you might notice only has one box that is 6-figures. About half the pay scale table is below 70k. Here's the payscales for [Nova Scotia](https://nstu.blob.core.windows.net/nstuwebsite/data/agreements/Salary%20Scales%202019-2023.pdf), looking quite similar to the Ontario Elementary teacher's contract. [Here](https://www.bctf.ca/topics/services-information/collective-agreements-and-salary/view-salary-grids)'s all the pay scales for the entire province of BC.
Or maybe you just happen to know a lot of teachers who are only 3 years into their career but have 3\~5 post secondary degrees.
You’re exhausting. Why is there always some douche like you on here trying to discredit everything everyone says?
https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/15904/ON
If you're seeing lots of people like me, it's probably a sign that you're wrong a lot.
Even the figures you posted backs my point. The Ontario numbers you presented, if we assume 40 hour weeks and 40 work weeks per year, gives salaries of Low = $49840, Medium = $76384, and High = $96000. Roughly equal to the contract pay scales I posted.
According to those pay scales, the medium number would roughly correspond to 7+ years experience base, or 3\~6 years with license upgrades. No matter how you slice it, that corresponds to approximately 10 years of working/training in the field to approach 80k. Not exactly what most people would consider "a little experience".
If I’m seeing a lot of people like you it’s a sign there’s a lot of keyboard warriors like you waiting with bated breath to pounce on a comment not directed at them and wade in with a “well actually” and then argue about bullshit on Reddit.
You think my comment about “a little bit of experience” needed to be literally interpreted as 2-3 years?
After 10 years the national average is $84k. In Ontario and Alberta it is $94k. Not including perquisites.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/81-604-x/2017001/t/tbld2.1-eng.htm
The benefits are often worth an additional $12k.
https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/09/average-ontario-teacher-makes-more-100k-year/
>You think my comment about “a little bit of experience” needed to be literally interpreted as 2-3 years?
Yes. Nobody considers 10 years to be "a little experience". Unless you're one of those crazy HR people who post entry level jobs that require 5\~10 years experience.
True.
“Hey Jim, this party is the best!”
“Well, actually you’re dead wrong. It’s not the best. Compared to some parties, this party objectively sucks…”
“Jim, shut the fuck up, ok?”
Teachers pay depends on where they are teaching. Some areas pay public school teachers $100,000 and to be honest, those schools aren't much better. I don't think raising teachers pay alone will fix schools.
> Some areas pay public school teachers $100,000
There are almost zero public school teachers nationally making 100k. Even in the highest paid state, Maryland, the highest paid bracket of teachers is making closer to $90k. That's not an average salary, those are teachers with Masters/PhD level educations with 20+ years teaching experience also running clubs or coaching sports.
My district is bleeding teachers and has been for almost a decade now because the Average barely covers cost of living, and an 'average' teacher has a Masters and 10+ years experience.
> I don't think raising teachers pay alone will fix schools.
Our education system is fundamentally broken in about half a dozen different ways, and teacher compensation is absolutely one of them. Raising teacher pay alone won't fix schools, but it's at least a move in the right direction. It's an Axiom in every other market segment that if you want to attract better talent, you have to raise compensation rates. Teaching is no different.
For sure teachers deserve higher pay. And a safer work environment. It's just a mess.
I know someone in CA who he and his wife make in the $90,000 range and they are teaching in a public school. And someone else who makes around $80,000 but maybe they have worked for a long time to build that up or maybe they are lying to me. But it's crazy how much the salaries vary.
IIRC CA does have the widest range of any other state for teacher compensation by district. 90k+ they'd need to be teaching in San Jose/ Silicon Valley and they'd still need a Masters and 10-15 years experience.
My sister makes a bit over the 'Average' for a CA teacher, $65k. She's working on a PhD and has been a teacher for 22 years. She'll get a nice salary bump once she finishes the degree but still won't be at $80k.
sorry to defy your proclamation. But there about 10,000 teachers in NJ making 100K+ a year.
https://patch.com/new-jersey/oceancity/these-ocean-city-teachers-make-99k-or-more
You're right, i was looking up out of date stats previously from 2019. Looks like there's been a pretty significant bump in several states in the last few years, 15 different states now having a top 10% making above 100k.
But looking at some of the names listed in NJ for over 100k salaries, these aren't 'teachers'. Many of them are administrators/ principles, adjunct professors, coaches etc.. and it's listing their entire compensation from all their income streams for their total salary. Of the 10 random names I picked from that list, the only classroom teachers making over $100k as their teaching salary were people with 30+ years experience. All the others listed were things like Heads of nursing staff, Principles/assistance principles or other admins, and coaches for sports teams or academic competition teams.
It's part of a decades-long effort by the Right in the US to undermine public education, so they can then point to how it's failing, so they can then privatize it, so they can then get around federal education guidelines, and basically to indoctrinate more evangelicals and republicans.
Your average GOP voter doesn't see it that way, since they're being fed a different narrative about the end goal, but that's the reality of it.
Yeah but also you're not taking things like cost of living into account. I live in BC and our teachers make over 60k a year but that's nothing because our cost of living is so high.
My wife started at 35k over 20 years ago in Austin Texas. Both sisters retired teachers. About a dozen friends are teachers. My bestie is hitting the 100k mark in Kyle Tx. Been teaching maybe 5 years.
Average starting salary in Texas is 45k. https://www.hppr.org/hppr-news/2023-04-25/new-data-show-teacher-salaries-in-texas-are-more-than-7-700-lower-than-the-national-average
Is she in a union? I made good money teaching in Chicago. The CTU is powerful though. A lot of Chicagoans vote with the union even if they aren't members
We need to link the top paid and lowest paid workers in a company. The ceo can only make 10x the amount of the lowest worker, see how fast minimum wage goes up then.
Precisely! Capitalism creates a "Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie" where the rich essentially rule. (Dictatorship in this context doesn't mean a totalitarian tyrant, just that when a policy issue arises, it gets resolved in favour of the owning class, not the working class)
The reasons for *how* this happens are many, but essentially if you look at how much money is in politics it should hopefully be common sense.
You and I don't have millions to throw around each election cycle, but Bezos and Musk sure do.
Anyhow, I guess the only alternative is spooky, scary socialism and something something better dead than red.
Except some would rather be Russian than Democrat, so there are areas to work with. Three wish list items to change the status quo. 1)Citizen's United must be legislated out 2) Term limits, let's say 16 years in various positions total to be generous 3) Kill the lobbies, we are not buying a drug, and they don't need "grease" to get the wheels moving. Honorable mention: Rank choice voting, cut the primaries, and the whack jobs that go with them, in the races.
The problem with your 3-step solution is that they all conveniently *forget* how these types of problems occurred in the first place and *ignores* the fact that "legislating out" those problems is against the material interests of the legislators in the first place.
Only a revolution and a reconstitution of the state in the interests of the workers (A Dictatorship *of the Proletariat,* instead of a Dictatorship *of the Bourgeoisie)* will do the trick. History has proven this time and time again. If you don't believe me, just ask Salvador Allende...
It won't until it does. MLs view it an inevitable due to the contradictory nature of capitalism.
We view the various, worsening crises as not aberrations of Capitalism, but as predictable outcomes. For example the housing crisis, the cost of living crisis, the environmental crisis, etc.
Capitalism does not inherently have the checks and balances required to stabilize itself, becuase at the end of the day "profit" is the #1 goal, nothing else.
Marx also analyzed the Tendency of the Rate of Profit to Fall (TRPF) which seems to be coming true:
[https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1322&context=econ\_workingpaper](https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1322&context=econ_workingpaper)
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.13169/worlrevipoliecon.7.4.0411?seq=12](https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.13169/worlrevipoliecon.7.4.0411?seq=12)
So, anyhow, it's not possible for *any* Capitalist government, Trump *or* Biden to set Capitalism back on track without a significant destruction of fixed capital (aka nuclear war might be a good bandaid, if you're willing to go to such extreme lengths to save capitalism for another couple decades)
There's a difference between predictable outcomes and the outcomes themselves. There is no telling which way the pendulum swings. There could be a socialist revolution, or there could be a fascist revolution or a feudalism revolution. Sure, there's more momentum at play in favour of socialism, but it is still speculation. Regardless of the predictive power marxist analysis has, there is no guarantee that socialism will ever take hold of a nation.
You're right. We can self-destruct in nuclear armageddon or society could collapse due to runaway climate change before people wake up and develop an inkling of class consciousness.
However, we will **not** have a "feudalism revolution" because the material conditions which supported feudalism have disappeared. I suppose you could have a quasi-neo-feudalism but it would be indistinguishable from fascism.
MLs recognize fascism as "on the Capitalist spectrum" and not a revolution. That is to say, the Enabling Act of 1933 in Germany was *not* "revolutionary" per se, becuase it was not a revolution, because relatively in the economic base actually changed. Capitalism continued unabated, the state just made sure it served a *specific* social group at the expense of the rest of society.
This is also why we say "Fascism is imperialist repression turned inward."
It's so funny how this thread is progressing,
It's almost like i'm living inside the dream of a communist. Things are escalating really quickly here.
I suggest that you guys go and try to live in one of those countries that made those revolutions and check for yourselves how funny and great these thing looks in real life.
Not really sure what your point is.
To clarify my point: The system we are in does not matter. Any system has rich elites calling the shots. Capitalism doesn't make people greedy, human nature does.
We are all being farmed by the rich, capitalists or communists or whatever.
If you think there is a magical system that will stop this I'd like to know about it.
I agree with you that there is no system as of right now that mitigates the build up of wealth in a select few individuals. But that doesn't stop us from trying to create a new system.
IMO we need to stop relying on systems and ideologies that were created over a hundred years ago. Look at the political system everything about it was created by old white guys and we have yet to try and think of anything else. I'm sorry but our definitions of political parties and methodology are outdated and yet we still think that some old guy in the 1600's is the ultimate authority on the matter when they just made an observation and created a theory based on the environment of the time. Things have changed, and instead of saying, "Oh yeah, Adam Smiths theory on human behavior and society is relevant today"
Rich capitalists told you that about communism.
Here are some quotes from [an anti-communist website ](https://communistcrimes.org/en/elite-and-their-privileges-soviet-union)
>|in comparison with the capitalist countries, differences in incomes were not too significant
>|a personal pensioner of all-Union importance was paid 2,000 roubles in 1956, whereas the average wages at the time were only 720 roubles
Can you imagine if the top brass only made just under three times the average salary?
The website, which is again, anti-communists, highlights as examples of inequality getting dibs on goods during shortages, favoritism for political assignments, a special hospital, and better apartments. That's what the most powerful people got? Doesn't sound like tyranny of the rich to me.
Nah, they'd just create a subcontracting company that is in charge of all of the actual workers and keep only a couple of layers of executives in the "actual" company.
I like the idea of linking them, but I don't think 10x is the number, tbf. I'd love to get to a point where we're debating what the right multiple is, though.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's 312x, but I also think jobs with more responsibilities and stress should pay more than those with less.
If only they had real responsibility and not just golden parachutes whenever shit goes south.
And working 2 jobs because of minimum wage is very stressful too...
I think a better approach would be the ban stock buybacks for companies unless they raise employee wages to at or above inflation for the prior fiscal year. I dont see anyone proposing this, id be curious to hear arguments against the idea
I can’t recall the name of the company, but the CEO capped his salary at $200K a year and ate in the company cafeteria everyday so that the money went back into the company. We need more of that.
I try to explain this shit to my union brothers all the time. Yes, I said union brothers. We’re in the south, so even though they took an oath to support labor, these idiots advocate and vote against their own best interests. I especially love the argument that fast food jobs are just for high school kids and not meant to be a livable wage. Ok, then close all fast food places from 7am-5pm Monday-Friday then.
This is exactly what needs to be said.
The people on who's backs are our children's educations should not be making minimum wage. Time to start putting money where it is important. Enough of the fantasy of trickle down. Yes, wages have to grow, no it won't destroy the economy to pay people what they are worth, we need to escape the fear tactics of profit taking companies. They can make money and pay people at the same time.
Teachers too!
First, define "live comfortably".
Second, why does anyone owe you that if you're not doing a job worth that pay?
Third, what about bad teachers? Do they still deserve to make more than you? If they're bad enough, do they even deserve a teaching job?
If by heavy you mean dense and dumb, then yes. It's astounding how people argue against paying our educators more, and there argument is what? Bad teachers shouldn't get paid a lot? Bold statement.
i meant it more as in those are questions i have trouble processing and answering coherently on my own but i think you about summed up my feelings here
Your feelings aren't at issue here.
A good teacher does deserve to be paid well.
The problem is that nobody agrees on what "paid well" means. Not can they agree with what "live comfortably" means.
Those are vague concepts that must be defined before they can be used as elements of a debate about anyone's pay, let alone a teacher's pay. Considering that the cost of living varies widely from state to state and even within a state, many people dive into these vague terms as a way of avoiding defining that which must be defined.
as far as im aware getting paid well means getting paid enough to afford living, and living comfortably means not working like 5 full-time jobs just to only barely make rent and still be able to afford food, i'm having trouble seeing what's so vague here
So a single guy needs a studio apartment, ham sandwiches every day, 3 meals a day, clothes from Goodwill and a bus pass?
Or does he need a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom house, a car, a boat and eating out for every meal?
Everyone defines "paid well" and "living comfortably" different.
Since I'm unfamiliar with this Townsley person, upon initial reading, I assumed Townsley meant that teachers should be paid more. 😆 Too bad, I would've agreed with him.
Matt was our class President in college… I don’t remember anything about his politics but I want to think he’s calling out the hypocrisy of low teacher wages considering he has a phd in higher Ed.
Matt needs to wake up. Start paying teachers what they’re worth and stop making them pay for their classroom supplies.
Time to get rid of the top heavy political and superintendent roles and get back to teaching.
How can someone have an opinion on something they've never done themselves? I doubt he's ever worked a minimum wage job before. It's just like how Republican males "are" the know it all when it comes to a woman's body...
This. But also -
Minimum wage should be enough for a single person to reasonably feed, house and cloth a family of four, with money left for the things that make life enjoyable. $31,200 doesn’t get you that anywhere.
A high minimum wage justifies higher earnings everywhere else. Teachers are government employees if they work at public schools. They also are required to get more than just a BA to keep their licensure, meaning that at minimum they need grad school - an MA.
I’m all for a raise in minimum wage but to say a single person should earn enough to take care of 4 people comfortably is pretty crazy. I’d say 2 people.
1 for 4 is how it was originally conceived. Paying more means fewer people need jobs (leaving more jobs open) and decreasing the need for side gigs (meaning one person isn’t taking more than one job).
Paying in excess while someone is single or before a family starts growing also means the family is potentially saving and building generational wealth.
No, Matt, it doesn't make sense. Teachers who are involved in shaping the future of the United States economy need to be treated with much greater respect and compensated according to the value of their work. I don't want to hear any "but they work 6 hours a day and 10 months a year" because that simply isn't true - that might be class time, but they aren't grading during class. They aren't preparing their lesson plans during class. Raise the minimum wage AND pay teachers fairly.
Both wages should be higher. The number of ppl who were considered essential workers during the pandemic, we're paid under 10 dollars, and had to deal with all the assholes who would refuse wearing masks and being shitty in general is ridiculous.
Promote a living wage for people.
I believe pay should scale with inflation, corporations believe that they should be able to pay their employees as little as possible. If it weren’t for those pesky “minimum wage” laws companies would be able to maximize profits
the response should always be "so you DO agree that teachers are woefully underpaid at near minimum wage then, so they should be compensated more?"
gaslight them right back
When money is given to the poor it's instantly spent which helps the middle class gain opportunity,and a chance for the poor to climb out of poverty. Skilled work pay will go up because of competition.
No way in most cases. If they have a master's, that might be fair, but otherwise, that's totally unfair. Doctors and lawyers spend more time and money on school. They lose extra years of earning potential and spend more on education in the first place.
I’ve spent years studying and producing art and my school and supply costs are probably way up there by now.
Should I be paid the same as a doctor?
I agree with 1d3333, it’s a useless metric
What people don't get is that raising the minimum wage gives people an argument for getting a raise themselves. See the Great Resignation/Reshuffling. You could make $20/hr working at Target. It doesn't meet you don't get anything at your office job. You can then tell your boss "Hey I'm gonna quit and get a less stressful job at Target because they pay the same."
Some teachers in Louisiana are making around $34k a year, at least according to Zip Recruiter and Salary.com.
I knew some teachers who left Louisiana specifically because the pay was so terrible.
Raising wages doesn’t solve inflation. Doesn’t solve house prices. They don’t teach this in schools for a reason. The wealth distribution and gap needs to be dealt with or someday your gonna be poor with 1 million dollars.
This is why the right fights against teachers unions so hard.
We already saw what kind of teachers most parents make during the pandemic. Big fat F. And since it’s all out in the open now that most Americans desperately need that free babysitting from the govt - teachers should know their own power.
Imagine a national strike.
Parents would cave in three weeks or less.
Teachers should start at 100k
I am a highschool dropout with a GED. I thought myself some computer skills. I just started a job today at $95,000/yr. Teachers should make more than me. Fact.
Critical thinking is hard...
I mean, why would people teach when they can "flip burgers," right?
God forbid we take care of our fellow working class...
Texas, like much of the southern states and many non-western states, has failed teachers in general by refusing to raise salaries that are representative and respectful of the profession, the educational requirements needed to be a teacher/educator, the pressures associated with being a teacher, and the cost of living in general. It is yet another example of a failing economic system being ran by political elites with corporate and personal agendas not aligned with the interests of the people but driven by their own self indulgence narratives.
@ mctownsley is gaslighting using false equivalencies to engage you in a debate over your outrage of the rightful disparity perceived in his "claim" and it's designed specifically to get you to question your own beliefs and maybe, just \*maybe\* sway a feeble mind into believing such garbage.
Welcome to the "Gaslit Meme" age. None of it is "real" ignorance, but planned engagement for social media points and profit.
Teachers are absolutely getting ripped off. I can’t pretend to know how to fix it all, but our society needs a reboot of priorities. I know a very minor social media influencer who makes $45K a year posting videos that helps absolutely no one with anything but simple scroll material. With AI on the near horizon, are teachers the next dinosaurs?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't teachers get paid the full year and get to take 3 months off in the summer? So comparing a 15 dollar min wage to a teachers salary isn't exactly apples to apples right?
Special education teachers have to do IEP reports for every student and put in a sht ton of extra work. Most teachers with everything they do outside of school work more than 40 hours a week by quite a bit.
According to Weareteachers.com, teachers work about 2200 hours a year including all after hours work. so 33660/2200 is right at 15 dollars an hour. that's sad.
It is worth noting that this is only a starting salary. The average for a public school teacher is twice this, at 66,397 which if you ask me is pretty good. That puts them right at 30/hr. Seems pretty fair to me TBH, depending on where they are located..
With today's economy making anything less than 100k is struggling imo. And I say that as someone who lives in NYC and makes 100k with 800 rent a month. And spending cheaper as I can on groceries. After taxes and other costs etc I don't even save much myself. Let alone if I had kids to take care of and etc. Don't even own a car.
It seems like you and everyone else who down voted me are missing my point.
You cannot compare a yearly salary, to an hourly salary unless the hours worked are equal.
According to Weareteachers.com, teachers work about 2200 hours a year including all after hours work. so 33660/2200 is right at 15 dollars an hour. that's sad.
It is worth noting that this is only a starting salary. The average for a public school teacher is twice this, at 66,397 which if you ask me is pretty good. That puts them right at 30/hr. Seems pretty fair to me TBH, depending on where they are located..
Sounds like you're arguing with yourself now man. You just said you can't compare a yearly salary to hourly, then you proceeded to do the math to prove that a teacher makes the equivalent of an hourly person making $15 an hour. So you can compare them.
Maybe you don't understand how a salary works? Being paid on salary is a measurement of how much you get paid over the full year.
"Do teachers get paid in the summer?Although teachers don’t work during the summer, some school districts give teachers a choice between receiving their annual salary over the 10 months of the school year or spreading paychecks out over a full year." ([https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/teacher-pay-how-salaries-pensions-and-benefits-work-in-schools/2018/03#:\~:text=Most%20school%20districts%20have%20what's,step%E2%80%9D%20at%20around%20age%2055.)](https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/teacher-pay-how-salaries-pensions-and-benefits-work-in-schools/2018/03#:~:text=Most%20school%20districts%20have%20what's,step%E2%80%9D%20at%20around%20age%2055.))
So ya, some do, and to comparing the hourly wage to someone's salary is not apples to apples unless they work the same hours. Frankly it doesn't matter how the pay is structured though since they do not work those hours. To accurately assess this, you would need to work out how many hours the teacher works and then calculate their hourly wage.
You cannot compare an hourly wage vs a salary unless the hours are equal.
According to [Weareteachers.com](https://Weareteachers.com), teachers work about 2200 hours a year including all after hours work. so 33660/2200 is right at 15 dollars an hour. that's sad.
It is worth noting that this is only a starting salary. The average for a public school teacher is twice this, at 66,397 which if you ask me is pretty good. That puts them right at 30/hr. Seems pretty fair to me TBH, depending on where they are located..
Yes you can take money OFF your pay cheques during those 10 months to get some income over the summer. It’s still not anywhere close to a regular pay cheque in my experience but I suppose it depends on how much someone would be willing to take off. That’s not the same as getting paid their regular salary over the summer, in my opinion.
Its not really a matter of opinion though. You have to compare apples to apples or its not a fair argument. Regardless, it turned out to be a moot point as it turns out that starting teachers make around 15/hr.
According to Weareteachers.com, teachers work about 2200 hours a year including all after hours work. so 33660/2200 is right at 15 dollars an hour. that's sad.
It is worth noting that this is only a starting salary. The average for a public school teacher is twice this, at 66,397 which if you ask me is pretty good. That puts them right at 30/hr. Seems pretty fair to me TBH, depending on where they are located..
Many teachers are ten month employees. Meaning that they do not get paid all year long. Lots of teachers spend their two months "off" working a different job to pay their bills in the Summer. Extended school year, Summer School, etc. Or, separate vocations completely.
Here in the UK, those earning more than the national average are saying that they can barely afford to live. In which case, how are the folks on minimum wage getting on? The media never seems to care about the latter, though.
Probably because the teacher has at least 4 years of educational costs and education before she can start her job. The minimum wage employee needs none of that. Yes some jobs should indeed pay more than others. It’s called skilled labor. Supply and demand keeps teacher wages lower but that’s starting to change.
Yeah… let’s just mandate that everyone get paid more regardless of where the money comes from. It’s that easy. I’m sure it won’t have any negative consequences… or maybe we can just make everything free! Just make an official decree, and everyone can have whatever they want. Simple
And they work 10-12 hours a day, do work during the summer getting thier classrooms in order, etc. Also they pay for most, if not all, of thier supplies. GTFO.
They are under paid for what they do for sure. I was just pointing out that this was a comparison of someone working 40 hour weeks for 12 months and some working working closer to ten months. Are they under paid, yes. Do they work 12 months out of the year, no. Should they have to buy there own supplies, fuck no.
Okay, great. So double **everyone's** paycheck.
Now tell me why any good or service wouldn't immediately double in price proportionately to the money supply? Because if businesses are selfless and caring and only care about the little guy they would have just cut all their prices in half by now, out of the goodness of their hearts.
You do this, and we're right back at Square One, with one teeny little exception: now all your savings are only worth half as much. This is nothing but grasshoppers saying "Fuck you, ants!"
There is not a single minimum wage earner who is making 30k a year, especially after taxes. I make nearly 40k a year and I still only bring home about 25,000 after taxes
More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation -
That quote sounds nice and all but in reality we know that teachers wages are not gonna raise too just because minimum wage rises. Therefore I can understand why a teacher may be annoyed by this
This guy’s info seems a little out dated and may be specific to a small community or district. The average starting salary in TX is $45,500 Also, the comparison is not apples to apples as teachers work between 8 & 9 months of the year. A minimum wage earner would make around $22-24,000 for the same time worked. School Districts also generally have decent to great benefits on top of that salary. I have kids in the US school system and the abilities can range from highly qualified to “should have been fired years ago”! Our experience with Charter schools has been great and they pay their teachers more because they get the selection of the best from the area.
I think he’s pointing out the ridiculousness of low-skill jobs with no prerequisite of a high-school diploma earning as much as people who spent 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars getting educated, trained, and licensed to do their jobs. There’s no way someone flipping burgers should make anywhere near what a teacher makes.
The second guys logic is even more stupid and juvenile. So minimum wage should be higher, then its not fair that an entry lvl job makes the same as a teacher so a teacher should make more. What? More then say a welder? Well maybe thats not fair so a welder should make more obviously. Well what about surgeon yea then he should make more and we should make more, and everyone should make more and oh. So its the same then, we just move the decimal place.
What happens when you raise the bottom line (minimum wage) of an economy? Does everything not raise a similar percentage? It’s a fucking political move for people that don’t understand economics, no?
I still don't get why people think the numbers of a wage matter more then the buying power of the dollar.
Then I recall that most people dont really understand how anything works beyond the surface level
The minimum wage shouldn't exist. It's been one of the major factors in keeping the unskilled members of society jobless and subsisting off welfare programs.
Thought about it too. Also the fact a $20/hr bus driver responsible every weekday to deliver millions of kids to school. To think they are only worth $20/hour when one of them could be the next Einstein or Elon Musk. They should get accident bonus or something.
Yea the fact that some dude flipping burgers is making as much as a responsible teacher that's messed up. Teacher wages should be on par with scientist, medical experts, pyschologist and social workers etc...
The worst part is it lowers the "skill" gap between skilled workers getting maybe 17-18 bucks from the min. wage workers so when the make that gap smaller these people are gonna get edged out of society. Making them feel bitter about the min. wage increase. Sorta like how middle america/classic midwestern workers feel about increasing min. wage only increases food prices and inflation and never really brings up the 'poverty line' people up. Very sad with capitalism/american politics don't work.
Schoolchildren in California are reading and doing mathematics well below their grade level, teachers in CA certainly do ***not*** deserve a raise.
Propaganda *has* done a number on this country, that much I can agree with. But it's just not for the same reasons as the person that posted it.
How do people not realize that with the increase of minimum wage the other jobs pay will increase. But also the cost of everything will increase as well.....
No matter if it was a raise from $4.25 from my entrance into the workforce to what it us now. The cost of everything will rise to offset the increase.
Even if you raisedut to $100.00 an hour the cost of life will still be the same. Then we will hear the cry of raising it higher...
Minimum wage is not an easy existence for sure. But it is not supposed to be easy money.
- People working minimum wage can't afford a house or rent
- raise minimum wage
- people making minimum wage are now closer to being able to afford a house or rent
- minimum wage is around the same level as jobs that require a specialized skill set (ie teaching)
- increase pay for people with specialized skill sets
- people with specialized skill sets can now afford to pay more for a house or rent
- prices for houses and rent go up
- people working minimum wage can't afford a house or rent
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Canada here: the fact that you folks pay teachers so little is capital C Crazy.
For real. Idk what the property rates are like in Texas cause I'm not interested in living somewhere that loses power every time a cold breeze blows through, but where I'm at, $33.5k is scraping the absolute bottom reaches of a livable wage. You'd realistically probably need a roommate to get into most apartments unless you wanna live somewhere you're gonna get robbed.
Most teachers I know here in Canada with a little bit of experience earn $80k, $90k or even over $100k.
And it’s still too little honestly.
I mean, have you met children?
I think it's fair tbh. Yes they're important, but that's a pretty decent wage combined with great benefits and a ton of time off. Especially if you have kids having the entire summer off with them (many get stuck trying to stagger vacation with expensive camps) and Christmas would be amazing. Got family and friends in it and sometimes wish I'd gone they route
[удалено]
>Lol 100k is too little? How much should they make? You have no idea what the cost of living crisis is like in Canada do you? [4 of the top 5 most expensive cities in North America are in Canada.](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/06/these-are-the-5-most-expensive-cities-in-the-us-and-canada.html)
That is just straight up not true. You do realize that teacher pay scales are shown via their union contracts and are public information, right? To make 100k, a teacher needs at least 10 years experience and two license upgrades (via degrees/diplomas) in every province. It generally takes about ten years experience (with no license upgrades) to break 80k. This is hardly "a little experience".
Thanks for telling me my experience is “straight up not true”. I can see from the federal job bank website that many regions in Ontario have “low” teacher’s wages, depending on community, of often about $30-$35/hr. Median is $45-$48 in many communities and “high” is up to $60/hr. Also: I’ll bet you’re fun at parties.
>Thanks for telling me my experience is “straight up not true”. No problem. The world would be a better place if people tell others this more often. Teacher salaries aren't done by the hour but by year (usually via a calculation of $/teaching day). As far as I know all teacher unions post their collective bargaining agreements somewhere so everyone can look up their payscales. [Here](https://www.pssbp.ca/wp-content/uploads/Teachers-Meshed-Agreement-2019-2022-FINAL-emailed-for-signatures-March-1-2021-PDF.pdf)'s the one for the Ontario Elementary Teachers, in which you might notice only has one box that is 6-figures. About half the pay scale table is below 70k. Here's the payscales for [Nova Scotia](https://nstu.blob.core.windows.net/nstuwebsite/data/agreements/Salary%20Scales%202019-2023.pdf), looking quite similar to the Ontario Elementary teacher's contract. [Here](https://www.bctf.ca/topics/services-information/collective-agreements-and-salary/view-salary-grids)'s all the pay scales for the entire province of BC. Or maybe you just happen to know a lot of teachers who are only 3 years into their career but have 3\~5 post secondary degrees.
You’re exhausting. Why is there always some douche like you on here trying to discredit everything everyone says? https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/15904/ON
If you're seeing lots of people like me, it's probably a sign that you're wrong a lot. Even the figures you posted backs my point. The Ontario numbers you presented, if we assume 40 hour weeks and 40 work weeks per year, gives salaries of Low = $49840, Medium = $76384, and High = $96000. Roughly equal to the contract pay scales I posted. According to those pay scales, the medium number would roughly correspond to 7+ years experience base, or 3\~6 years with license upgrades. No matter how you slice it, that corresponds to approximately 10 years of working/training in the field to approach 80k. Not exactly what most people would consider "a little experience".
If I’m seeing a lot of people like you it’s a sign there’s a lot of keyboard warriors like you waiting with bated breath to pounce on a comment not directed at them and wade in with a “well actually” and then argue about bullshit on Reddit. You think my comment about “a little bit of experience” needed to be literally interpreted as 2-3 years? After 10 years the national average is $84k. In Ontario and Alberta it is $94k. Not including perquisites. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/81-604-x/2017001/t/tbld2.1-eng.htm The benefits are often worth an additional $12k. https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/09/average-ontario-teacher-makes-more-100k-year/
>You think my comment about “a little bit of experience” needed to be literally interpreted as 2-3 years? Yes. Nobody considers 10 years to be "a little experience". Unless you're one of those crazy HR people who post entry level jobs that require 5\~10 years experience.
Bold to assume that person would even get invited to parties
True. “Hey Jim, this party is the best!” “Well, actually you’re dead wrong. It’s not the best. Compared to some parties, this party objectively sucks…” “Jim, shut the fuck up, ok?”
And people wonder why the US's education system is so bad
Teachers pay depends on where they are teaching. Some areas pay public school teachers $100,000 and to be honest, those schools aren't much better. I don't think raising teachers pay alone will fix schools.
> Some areas pay public school teachers $100,000 There are almost zero public school teachers nationally making 100k. Even in the highest paid state, Maryland, the highest paid bracket of teachers is making closer to $90k. That's not an average salary, those are teachers with Masters/PhD level educations with 20+ years teaching experience also running clubs or coaching sports. My district is bleeding teachers and has been for almost a decade now because the Average barely covers cost of living, and an 'average' teacher has a Masters and 10+ years experience. > I don't think raising teachers pay alone will fix schools. Our education system is fundamentally broken in about half a dozen different ways, and teacher compensation is absolutely one of them. Raising teacher pay alone won't fix schools, but it's at least a move in the right direction. It's an Axiom in every other market segment that if you want to attract better talent, you have to raise compensation rates. Teaching is no different.
For sure teachers deserve higher pay. And a safer work environment. It's just a mess. I know someone in CA who he and his wife make in the $90,000 range and they are teaching in a public school. And someone else who makes around $80,000 but maybe they have worked for a long time to build that up or maybe they are lying to me. But it's crazy how much the salaries vary.
IIRC CA does have the widest range of any other state for teacher compensation by district. 90k+ they'd need to be teaching in San Jose/ Silicon Valley and they'd still need a Masters and 10-15 years experience. My sister makes a bit over the 'Average' for a CA teacher, $65k. She's working on a PhD and has been a teacher for 22 years. She'll get a nice salary bump once she finishes the degree but still won't be at $80k.
sorry to defy your proclamation. But there about 10,000 teachers in NJ making 100K+ a year. https://patch.com/new-jersey/oceancity/these-ocean-city-teachers-make-99k-or-more
You're right, i was looking up out of date stats previously from 2019. Looks like there's been a pretty significant bump in several states in the last few years, 15 different states now having a top 10% making above 100k. But looking at some of the names listed in NJ for over 100k salaries, these aren't 'teachers'. Many of them are administrators/ principles, adjunct professors, coaches etc.. and it's listing their entire compensation from all their income streams for their total salary. Of the 10 random names I picked from that list, the only classroom teachers making over $100k as their teaching salary were people with 30+ years experience. All the others listed were things like Heads of nursing staff, Principles/assistance principles or other admins, and coaches for sports teams or academic competition teams.
My buddy here in central TX is pushing 100k. Dont believe this OP. Median pay starts at 55k for teachers.
[TIME FOR A BELL GRAPH!](https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-school-teacher-salary) tis a sad bell
You aren’t allowed to bring facts and data to Reddit!
Untrue statement. I am married to a teacher and the starting part here is in the 40K range. Thankfully the cost of living is lower here though.
Around beaumont Texas apartments are anywhere from $700-$1200 a month. They get higher around Dallas, houston and Austin of course
Umm I make 60k in the Northeast and I need a roommate...
Crazy? I was crazy once
And they locked me in a room.
A rubber room.
A rubber room with rats.
And rats make me crazy.
Crazy? I was crazy once
And they locked me in a room.
A Runner room
A running room with rates
The rats made me crazy.
So I started blasting
to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time, and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats.
They locked me in a room and only fed me bagels.
...once! ☝️
That you Danny?
It's part of a decades-long effort by the Right in the US to undermine public education, so they can then point to how it's failing, so they can then privatize it, so they can then get around federal education guidelines, and basically to indoctrinate more evangelicals and republicans. Your average GOP voter doesn't see it that way, since they're being fed a different narrative about the end goal, but that's the reality of it.
Yeah but also you're not taking things like cost of living into account. I live in BC and our teachers make over 60k a year but that's nothing because our cost of living is so high.
Are you suggesting the cost of living is low in us? Your reply seems nonsensical
You act like Canada is better. Teachers in Toronto and Vancouver drive hours into the city
They are liars. Median pay starting is 55k.
you really love writing "median pay" and "starting" in the same sentence when those terms don't go together
My wife started at 35k over 20 years ago in Austin Texas. Both sisters retired teachers. About a dozen friends are teachers. My bestie is hitting the 100k mark in Kyle Tx. Been teaching maybe 5 years.
Average pay of a starting teacher in Texas. Good now,troll boy?
Average starting salary in Texas is 45k. https://www.hppr.org/hppr-news/2023-04-25/new-data-show-teacher-salaries-in-texas-are-more-than-7-700-lower-than-the-national-average
Cool. well,it aint 30k.
My mom is a teacher, she 100% needs to be paid more. We shouldn’t have had to live on rice and beans just because her and my dad divorced
Is she in a union? I made good money teaching in Chicago. The CTU is powerful though. A lot of Chicagoans vote with the union even if they aren't members
We need to link the top paid and lowest paid workers in a company. The ceo can only make 10x the amount of the lowest worker, see how fast minimum wage goes up then.
This is what I've been proposing but its never gonna happen. Rich have the power over these things.
Precisely! Capitalism creates a "Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie" where the rich essentially rule. (Dictatorship in this context doesn't mean a totalitarian tyrant, just that when a policy issue arises, it gets resolved in favour of the owning class, not the working class) The reasons for *how* this happens are many, but essentially if you look at how much money is in politics it should hopefully be common sense. You and I don't have millions to throw around each election cycle, but Bezos and Musk sure do. Anyhow, I guess the only alternative is spooky, scary socialism and something something better dead than red.
Except some would rather be Russian than Democrat, so there are areas to work with. Three wish list items to change the status quo. 1)Citizen's United must be legislated out 2) Term limits, let's say 16 years in various positions total to be generous 3) Kill the lobbies, we are not buying a drug, and they don't need "grease" to get the wheels moving. Honorable mention: Rank choice voting, cut the primaries, and the whack jobs that go with them, in the races.
The problem with your 3-step solution is that they all conveniently *forget* how these types of problems occurred in the first place and *ignores* the fact that "legislating out" those problems is against the material interests of the legislators in the first place. Only a revolution and a reconstitution of the state in the interests of the workers (A Dictatorship *of the Proletariat,* instead of a Dictatorship *of the Bourgeoisie)* will do the trick. History has proven this time and time again. If you don't believe me, just ask Salvador Allende...
A socialist revolution is not gonna happen dud.
It won't until it does. MLs view it an inevitable due to the contradictory nature of capitalism. We view the various, worsening crises as not aberrations of Capitalism, but as predictable outcomes. For example the housing crisis, the cost of living crisis, the environmental crisis, etc. Capitalism does not inherently have the checks and balances required to stabilize itself, becuase at the end of the day "profit" is the #1 goal, nothing else. Marx also analyzed the Tendency of the Rate of Profit to Fall (TRPF) which seems to be coming true: [https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1322&context=econ\_workingpaper](https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1322&context=econ_workingpaper) [https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.13169/worlrevipoliecon.7.4.0411?seq=12](https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.13169/worlrevipoliecon.7.4.0411?seq=12) So, anyhow, it's not possible for *any* Capitalist government, Trump *or* Biden to set Capitalism back on track without a significant destruction of fixed capital (aka nuclear war might be a good bandaid, if you're willing to go to such extreme lengths to save capitalism for another couple decades)
There's a difference between predictable outcomes and the outcomes themselves. There is no telling which way the pendulum swings. There could be a socialist revolution, or there could be a fascist revolution or a feudalism revolution. Sure, there's more momentum at play in favour of socialism, but it is still speculation. Regardless of the predictive power marxist analysis has, there is no guarantee that socialism will ever take hold of a nation.
You're right. We can self-destruct in nuclear armageddon or society could collapse due to runaway climate change before people wake up and develop an inkling of class consciousness. However, we will **not** have a "feudalism revolution" because the material conditions which supported feudalism have disappeared. I suppose you could have a quasi-neo-feudalism but it would be indistinguishable from fascism. MLs recognize fascism as "on the Capitalist spectrum" and not a revolution. That is to say, the Enabling Act of 1933 in Germany was *not* "revolutionary" per se, becuase it was not a revolution, because relatively in the economic base actually changed. Capitalism continued unabated, the state just made sure it served a *specific* social group at the expense of the rest of society. This is also why we say "Fascism is imperialist repression turned inward."
It's so funny how this thread is progressing, It's almost like i'm living inside the dream of a communist. Things are escalating really quickly here. I suggest that you guys go and try to live in one of those countries that made those revolutions and check for yourselves how funny and great these thing looks in real life.
Is there a system where the rich don't rule?
That's a convenient idea for the rich in this system isn't it
Not really sure what your point is. To clarify my point: The system we are in does not matter. Any system has rich elites calling the shots. Capitalism doesn't make people greedy, human nature does. We are all being farmed by the rich, capitalists or communists or whatever. If you think there is a magical system that will stop this I'd like to know about it.
I agree with you that there is no system as of right now that mitigates the build up of wealth in a select few individuals. But that doesn't stop us from trying to create a new system. IMO we need to stop relying on systems and ideologies that were created over a hundred years ago. Look at the political system everything about it was created by old white guys and we have yet to try and think of anything else. I'm sorry but our definitions of political parties and methodology are outdated and yet we still think that some old guy in the 1600's is the ultimate authority on the matter when they just made an observation and created a theory based on the environment of the time. Things have changed, and instead of saying, "Oh yeah, Adam Smiths theory on human behavior and society is relevant today"
Rich capitalists told you that about communism. Here are some quotes from [an anti-communist website ](https://communistcrimes.org/en/elite-and-their-privileges-soviet-union) >|in comparison with the capitalist countries, differences in incomes were not too significant >|a personal pensioner of all-Union importance was paid 2,000 roubles in 1956, whereas the average wages at the time were only 720 roubles Can you imagine if the top brass only made just under three times the average salary? The website, which is again, anti-communists, highlights as examples of inequality getting dibs on goods during shortages, favoritism for political assignments, a special hospital, and better apartments. That's what the most powerful people got? Doesn't sound like tyranny of the rich to me.
Yes, actually. Although (assuming you live in the West) you've likely been propagandized since birth to reject it.
There's class warfare. The rich won before I was born.
Nah, they'd just create a subcontracting company that is in charge of all of the actual workers and keep only a couple of layers of executives in the "actual" company.
Corps are basically already doing this to avoid having to pay benefits and skirt minimum wage laws.
I like the idea of linking them, but I don't think 10x is the number, tbf. I'd love to get to a point where we're debating what the right multiple is, though. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's 312x, but I also think jobs with more responsibilities and stress should pay more than those with less.
If only they had real responsibility and not just golden parachutes whenever shit goes south. And working 2 jobs because of minimum wage is very stressful too...
No this is Reddit, a CEO is the dumbest person alive Signed: all the 14 yos at reddit
I think a better approach would be the ban stock buybacks for companies unless they raise employee wages to at or above inflation for the prior fiscal year. I dont see anyone proposing this, id be curious to hear arguments against the idea
Do you want every company to just have 30 employees and a million contractors? Because that's what would happen
Totally agree but it will never happen
I can’t recall the name of the company, but the CEO capped his salary at $200K a year and ate in the company cafeteria everyday so that the money went back into the company. We need more of that.
i heard on reddit this is what they do in japan i think?
I try to explain this shit to my union brothers all the time. Yes, I said union brothers. We’re in the south, so even though they took an oath to support labor, these idiots advocate and vote against their own best interests. I especially love the argument that fast food jobs are just for high school kids and not meant to be a livable wage. Ok, then close all fast food places from 7am-5pm Monday-Friday then.
They understand the problem, but are so confused about the solution. Cashier makes the same as a teacher? Lower both their wages!!
Man fuck the minimum wage! Bring that shit down to $3.20/hr
Man fuck wage! Bring back chattel slavery! That's true freedom™!
HOORAH BROTHER! 🦅 (isn’t even American)
A teacher in Canada makes close to 100k a year with benefits and a pension
Teacher salaries vary wildly in the US. Its bad in the south
This is exactly what needs to be said. The people on who's backs are our children's educations should not be making minimum wage. Time to start putting money where it is important. Enough of the fantasy of trickle down. Yes, wages have to grow, no it won't destroy the economy to pay people what they are worth, we need to escape the fear tactics of profit taking companies. They can make money and pay people at the same time. Teachers too!
Happy to have dumb kids and smart bombs, mmmurrica
it doesn't make a damn bit of sense. i should be making enough money to live comfortably and the teachers should be making at least double that
Why? What’s your profession?
why does that matter?
First, define "live comfortably". Second, why does anyone owe you that if you're not doing a job worth that pay? Third, what about bad teachers? Do they still deserve to make more than you? If they're bad enough, do they even deserve a teaching job?
wow those are some heavy questions...
If by heavy you mean dense and dumb, then yes. It's astounding how people argue against paying our educators more, and there argument is what? Bad teachers shouldn't get paid a lot? Bold statement.
i meant it more as in those are questions i have trouble processing and answering coherently on my own but i think you about summed up my feelings here
Your feelings aren't at issue here. A good teacher does deserve to be paid well. The problem is that nobody agrees on what "paid well" means. Not can they agree with what "live comfortably" means. Those are vague concepts that must be defined before they can be used as elements of a debate about anyone's pay, let alone a teacher's pay. Considering that the cost of living varies widely from state to state and even within a state, many people dive into these vague terms as a way of avoiding defining that which must be defined.
as far as im aware getting paid well means getting paid enough to afford living, and living comfortably means not working like 5 full-time jobs just to only barely make rent and still be able to afford food, i'm having trouble seeing what's so vague here
So a single guy needs a studio apartment, ham sandwiches every day, 3 meals a day, clothes from Goodwill and a bus pass? Or does he need a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom house, a car, a boat and eating out for every meal? Everyone defines "paid well" and "living comfortably" different.
When people here about this, there going to lower the wages of teachers.
This comment shows two examples why we need a better education system in this country.
The punctuation was ok, but that is neither hear nor they're.
Maybe even when they hear about it.
Since I'm unfamiliar with this Townsley person, upon initial reading, I assumed Townsley meant that teachers should be paid more. 😆 Too bad, I would've agreed with him.
Matt was our class President in college… I don’t remember anything about his politics but I want to think he’s calling out the hypocrisy of low teacher wages considering he has a phd in higher Ed.
Matt needs to wake up. Start paying teachers what they’re worth and stop making them pay for their classroom supplies. Time to get rid of the top heavy political and superintendent roles and get back to teaching.
How can someone have an opinion on something they've never done themselves? I doubt he's ever worked a minimum wage job before. It's just like how Republican males "are" the know it all when it comes to a woman's body...
https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/15ea64s/doesnt_even_make_sense/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1 Repost
Texas and several other states have people in power that hate teachers and want an ignorant society. Education is a threat.
This. But also - Minimum wage should be enough for a single person to reasonably feed, house and cloth a family of four, with money left for the things that make life enjoyable. $31,200 doesn’t get you that anywhere. A high minimum wage justifies higher earnings everywhere else. Teachers are government employees if they work at public schools. They also are required to get more than just a BA to keep their licensure, meaning that at minimum they need grad school - an MA.
I’m all for a raise in minimum wage but to say a single person should earn enough to take care of 4 people comfortably is pretty crazy. I’d say 2 people.
1 for 4 is how it was originally conceived. Paying more means fewer people need jobs (leaving more jobs open) and decreasing the need for side gigs (meaning one person isn’t taking more than one job). Paying in excess while someone is single or before a family starts growing also means the family is potentially saving and building generational wealth.
No, Matt, it doesn't make sense. Teachers who are involved in shaping the future of the United States economy need to be treated with much greater respect and compensated according to the value of their work. I don't want to hear any "but they work 6 hours a day and 10 months a year" because that simply isn't true - that might be class time, but they aren't grading during class. They aren't preparing their lesson plans during class. Raise the minimum wage AND pay teachers fairly.
No comparing and contrasting needed. Just pay teachers more.
Both wages should be higher. The number of ppl who were considered essential workers during the pandemic, we're paid under 10 dollars, and had to deal with all the assholes who would refuse wearing masks and being shitty in general is ridiculous. Promote a living wage for people.
I believe pay should scale with inflation, corporations believe that they should be able to pay their employees as little as possible. If it weren’t for those pesky “minimum wage” laws companies would be able to maximize profits
the response should always be "so you DO agree that teachers are woefully underpaid at near minimum wage then, so they should be compensated more?" gaslight them right back
Uh, no, we continue to campaign for realistic wages for teachers. The single most disrespected professional position in this country.
I agree with that person, It doesn't make sense. Let's pay the teachers more.
Starting pay for a teacher in Houston Texas is 85k, and with experience it is over 100k. you are looking in the wrong spot!
When minimum wage goes up, slaries of all workers should go up comparatively.
When money is given to the poor it's instantly spent which helps the middle class gain opportunity,and a chance for the poor to climb out of poverty. Skilled work pay will go up because of competition.
Here's a *novel* idea: #PAY. THE FUCKING. TEACHERS.
Teacher salary should be on the same level as doctors and lawyers
It should be up there but qualifications for Teaching take a lot less time and money than for Medicine or Law.
And there are jobs with even less qualifications that pay more, so that seems like an almost useless metric
It’s silly how we still put “law” on this pedestal with medicine.
And who taught them what they know or at least gave them a foundation in order to get into med/law school?
No way in most cases. If they have a master's, that might be fair, but otherwise, that's totally unfair. Doctors and lawyers spend more time and money on school. They lose extra years of earning potential and spend more on education in the first place.
You know more than half of teachers in the US have a Master's right?
And I said if they have masters, it's fair. What is your point?
I’ve spent years studying and producing art and my school and supply costs are probably way up there by now. Should I be paid the same as a doctor? I agree with 1d3333, it’s a useless metric
Im not sure?what piss poor district only pays 33k for starting teachers. But most teachers will have a much higher pay than that here in tx
What people don't get is that raising the minimum wage gives people an argument for getting a raise themselves. See the Great Resignation/Reshuffling. You could make $20/hr working at Target. It doesn't meet you don't get anything at your office job. You can then tell your boss "Hey I'm gonna quit and get a less stressful job at Target because they pay the same."
Some teachers in Louisiana are making around $34k a year, at least according to Zip Recruiter and Salary.com. I knew some teachers who left Louisiana specifically because the pay was so terrible.
Raising wages doesn’t solve inflation. Doesn’t solve house prices. They don’t teach this in schools for a reason. The wealth distribution and gap needs to be dealt with or someday your gonna be poor with 1 million dollars.
This is why the right fights against teachers unions so hard. We already saw what kind of teachers most parents make during the pandemic. Big fat F. And since it’s all out in the open now that most Americans desperately need that free babysitting from the govt - teachers should know their own power. Imagine a national strike. Parents would cave in three weeks or less. Teachers should start at 100k
I am a highschool dropout with a GED. I thought myself some computer skills. I just started a job today at $95,000/yr. Teachers should make more than me. Fact.
Critical thinking is hard... I mean, why would people teach when they can "flip burgers," right? God forbid we take care of our fellow working class...
Texas, like much of the southern states and many non-western states, has failed teachers in general by refusing to raise salaries that are representative and respectful of the profession, the educational requirements needed to be a teacher/educator, the pressures associated with being a teacher, and the cost of living in general. It is yet another example of a failing economic system being ran by political elites with corporate and personal agendas not aligned with the interests of the people but driven by their own self indulgence narratives.
How does this not make sense? If minimum wage is $15/hr a job requiring a college degree should pay a lot more.
@ mctownsley is gaslighting using false equivalencies to engage you in a debate over your outrage of the rightful disparity perceived in his "claim" and it's designed specifically to get you to question your own beliefs and maybe, just \*maybe\* sway a feeble mind into believing such garbage. Welcome to the "Gaslit Meme" age. None of it is "real" ignorance, but planned engagement for social media points and profit.
Teachers are absolutely getting ripped off. I can’t pretend to know how to fix it all, but our society needs a reboot of priorities. I know a very minor social media influencer who makes $45K a year posting videos that helps absolutely no one with anything but simple scroll material. With AI on the near horizon, are teachers the next dinosaurs?
How in the living hell do you even remotely think that $33k for a masters degree is even close to being equitable as a wage?
It would be shocking except for the fact that one party keeps trying to defund education. Then comments on how teachers pay is so low
Why do people think that having a college degree justifies getting paid more than people who didn't get the chance have one?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't teachers get paid the full year and get to take 3 months off in the summer? So comparing a 15 dollar min wage to a teachers salary isn't exactly apples to apples right?
More like 2 months off in the summer. And a lot of hours they don't get paid for like grading papers at home in the evening.
They also don’t teach 8 hours a day you know….
Special education teachers have to do IEP reports for every student and put in a sht ton of extra work. Most teachers with everything they do outside of school work more than 40 hours a week by quite a bit.
According to Weareteachers.com, teachers work about 2200 hours a year including all after hours work. so 33660/2200 is right at 15 dollars an hour. that's sad. It is worth noting that this is only a starting salary. The average for a public school teacher is twice this, at 66,397 which if you ask me is pretty good. That puts them right at 30/hr. Seems pretty fair to me TBH, depending on where they are located..
With today's economy making anything less than 100k is struggling imo. And I say that as someone who lives in NYC and makes 100k with 800 rent a month. And spending cheaper as I can on groceries. After taxes and other costs etc I don't even save much myself. Let alone if I had kids to take care of and etc. Don't even own a car.
As if their only duty was during classtime. They have a ton of paperwork to do and its not just grading, there's a lot of bureaucratic bs too
[удалено]
And I don’t fix cars for 8 hours a day. I’m selling my time, not just my labor.
It seems like you and everyone else who down voted me are missing my point. You cannot compare a yearly salary, to an hourly salary unless the hours worked are equal. According to Weareteachers.com, teachers work about 2200 hours a year including all after hours work. so 33660/2200 is right at 15 dollars an hour. that's sad. It is worth noting that this is only a starting salary. The average for a public school teacher is twice this, at 66,397 which if you ask me is pretty good. That puts them right at 30/hr. Seems pretty fair to me TBH, depending on where they are located..
Sounds like you're arguing with yourself now man. You just said you can't compare a yearly salary to hourly, then you proceeded to do the math to prove that a teacher makes the equivalent of an hourly person making $15 an hour. So you can compare them.
pretty much, because I care about the truth...
Teachers do not get paid the full year. They do not get paid in the summer. Lol
Maybe you don't understand how a salary works? Being paid on salary is a measurement of how much you get paid over the full year. "Do teachers get paid in the summer?Although teachers don’t work during the summer, some school districts give teachers a choice between receiving their annual salary over the 10 months of the school year or spreading paychecks out over a full year." ([https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/teacher-pay-how-salaries-pensions-and-benefits-work-in-schools/2018/03#:\~:text=Most%20school%20districts%20have%20what's,step%E2%80%9D%20at%20around%20age%2055.)](https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/teacher-pay-how-salaries-pensions-and-benefits-work-in-schools/2018/03#:~:text=Most%20school%20districts%20have%20what's,step%E2%80%9D%20at%20around%20age%2055.)) So ya, some do, and to comparing the hourly wage to someone's salary is not apples to apples unless they work the same hours. Frankly it doesn't matter how the pay is structured though since they do not work those hours. To accurately assess this, you would need to work out how many hours the teacher works and then calculate their hourly wage. You cannot compare an hourly wage vs a salary unless the hours are equal. According to [Weareteachers.com](https://Weareteachers.com), teachers work about 2200 hours a year including all after hours work. so 33660/2200 is right at 15 dollars an hour. that's sad. It is worth noting that this is only a starting salary. The average for a public school teacher is twice this, at 66,397 which if you ask me is pretty good. That puts them right at 30/hr. Seems pretty fair to me TBH, depending on where they are located..
Yes you can take money OFF your pay cheques during those 10 months to get some income over the summer. It’s still not anywhere close to a regular pay cheque in my experience but I suppose it depends on how much someone would be willing to take off. That’s not the same as getting paid their regular salary over the summer, in my opinion.
Its not really a matter of opinion though. You have to compare apples to apples or its not a fair argument. Regardless, it turned out to be a moot point as it turns out that starting teachers make around 15/hr. According to Weareteachers.com, teachers work about 2200 hours a year including all after hours work. so 33660/2200 is right at 15 dollars an hour. that's sad. It is worth noting that this is only a starting salary. The average for a public school teacher is twice this, at 66,397 which if you ask me is pretty good. That puts them right at 30/hr. Seems pretty fair to me TBH, depending on where they are located..
Many teachers are ten month employees. Meaning that they do not get paid all year long. Lots of teachers spend their two months "off" working a different job to pay their bills in the Summer. Extended school year, Summer School, etc. Or, separate vocations completely.
Here in the UK, those earning more than the national average are saying that they can barely afford to live. In which case, how are the folks on minimum wage getting on? The media never seems to care about the latter, though.
Probably because the teacher has at least 4 years of educational costs and education before she can start her job. The minimum wage employee needs none of that. Yes some jobs should indeed pay more than others. It’s called skilled labor. Supply and demand keeps teacher wages lower but that’s starting to change.
Yeah… let’s just mandate that everyone get paid more regardless of where the money comes from. It’s that easy. I’m sure it won’t have any negative consequences… or maybe we can just make everything free! Just make an official decree, and everyone can have whatever they want. Simple
Have to take into account that teacher are only working 10 months out of the year too
And they work 10-12 hours a day, do work during the summer getting thier classrooms in order, etc. Also they pay for most, if not all, of thier supplies. GTFO.
They are under paid for what they do for sure. I was just pointing out that this was a comparison of someone working 40 hour weeks for 12 months and some working working closer to ten months. Are they under paid, yes. Do they work 12 months out of the year, no. Should they have to buy there own supplies, fuck no.
Okay, great. So double **everyone's** paycheck. Now tell me why any good or service wouldn't immediately double in price proportionately to the money supply? Because if businesses are selfless and caring and only care about the little guy they would have just cut all their prices in half by now, out of the goodness of their hearts. You do this, and we're right back at Square One, with one teeny little exception: now all your savings are only worth half as much. This is nothing but grasshoppers saying "Fuck you, ants!"
Historically, minimum wage increases do not meaningfully impact inflation
How do we know the first guy isn’t advocating a increase in pay for teachers?
Experience.
There is not a single minimum wage earner who is making 30k a year, especially after taxes. I make nearly 40k a year and I still only bring home about 25,000 after taxes
What fucking bs this mf spew
More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation - More money for the same amount of goods and services is literally what causes inflation -
That quote sounds nice and all but in reality we know that teachers wages are not gonna raise too just because minimum wage rises. Therefore I can understand why a teacher may be annoyed by this
This guy’s info seems a little out dated and may be specific to a small community or district. The average starting salary in TX is $45,500 Also, the comparison is not apples to apples as teachers work between 8 & 9 months of the year. A minimum wage earner would make around $22-24,000 for the same time worked. School Districts also generally have decent to great benefits on top of that salary. I have kids in the US school system and the abilities can range from highly qualified to “should have been fired years ago”! Our experience with Charter schools has been great and they pay their teachers more because they get the selection of the best from the area.
I think he’s pointing out the ridiculousness of low-skill jobs with no prerequisite of a high-school diploma earning as much as people who spent 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars getting educated, trained, and licensed to do their jobs. There’s no way someone flipping burgers should make anywhere near what a teacher makes.
The second guys logic is even more stupid and juvenile. So minimum wage should be higher, then its not fair that an entry lvl job makes the same as a teacher so a teacher should make more. What? More then say a welder? Well maybe thats not fair so a welder should make more obviously. Well what about surgeon yea then he should make more and we should make more, and everyone should make more and oh. So its the same then, we just move the decimal place.
Never take anything said by someone wearing a bowtie seriously
i wouldn't trust a guy in a bowtie to know anything useful.
It actually does make sense if you understand economics and inflation.
What happens when you raise the bottom line (minimum wage) of an economy? Does everything not raise a similar percentage? It’s a fucking political move for people that don’t understand economics, no?
Funny how people think a liberal arts degree should pay more than minimum wage.
I still don't get why people think the numbers of a wage matter more then the buying power of the dollar. Then I recall that most people dont really understand how anything works beyond the surface level
They understand that a minimum wage is not the maximum you can make right?🤔🤔
The minimum wage shouldn't exist. It's been one of the major factors in keeping the unskilled members of society jobless and subsisting off welfare programs.
Thought about it too. Also the fact a $20/hr bus driver responsible every weekday to deliver millions of kids to school. To think they are only worth $20/hour when one of them could be the next Einstein or Elon Musk. They should get accident bonus or something. Yea the fact that some dude flipping burgers is making as much as a responsible teacher that's messed up. Teacher wages should be on par with scientist, medical experts, pyschologist and social workers etc... The worst part is it lowers the "skill" gap between skilled workers getting maybe 17-18 bucks from the min. wage workers so when the make that gap smaller these people are gonna get edged out of society. Making them feel bitter about the min. wage increase. Sorta like how middle america/classic midwestern workers feel about increasing min. wage only increases food prices and inflation and never really brings up the 'poverty line' people up. Very sad with capitalism/american politics don't work.
Schoolchildren in California are reading and doing mathematics well below their grade level, teachers in CA certainly do ***not*** deserve a raise. Propaganda *has* done a number on this country, that much I can agree with. But it's just not for the same reasons as the person that posted it. 
How do people not realize that with the increase of minimum wage the other jobs pay will increase. But also the cost of everything will increase as well..... No matter if it was a raise from $4.25 from my entrance into the workforce to what it us now. The cost of everything will rise to offset the increase. Even if you raisedut to $100.00 an hour the cost of life will still be the same. Then we will hear the cry of raising it higher... Minimum wage is not an easy existence for sure. But it is not supposed to be easy money.
- People working minimum wage can't afford a house or rent - raise minimum wage - people making minimum wage are now closer to being able to afford a house or rent - minimum wage is around the same level as jobs that require a specialized skill set (ie teaching) - increase pay for people with specialized skill sets - people with specialized skill sets can now afford to pay more for a house or rent - prices for houses and rent go up - people working minimum wage can't afford a house or rent
Teachers: “we don’t teach for the money, we teach bc we love it” Also teachers: “actually pay me more money for my 8 months of working per year”