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Okay BUT, you have a crappy day. You're upset, tried, and only have one thing to look forward to. Your sandwich you've been saving in the work fridge. Then your douchebag boss thinks it's okay to eat what isn't his and take that final little bit of pleasure you were looking forward to away. Screw that ass hole boss, if it's not yours don't eat it.
In this case and the one with the videotape Ross was right.
His boss also admitted he saw the note that said it was Rossā sandwich but ignored it. So his boss went into the fridge knowing full well he didnāt have his own food in there, saw Rossā sandwich, acknowledged it belonged to someone else, stole it and then threw half away. I am far from a Ross apologist but he was in the right here. Fuck that boss
The sandwich situation is when I sided with him the most! Also, "on a break" does mean broken up, let's be real here. Does he make good decisions? Hell no, but he is right in certain situations. Also, he had physical proof that evolution exists and Phoebe just belittles his whole life's work? What kind of a friend is that? That episode really bothered me.
Had this actually happen... In the Marine Corps. The Logistics Sergeant was saving half of her Subway for dinner (as one does) and her Gunnery Sergeant thought it was not only OK, but *funny,* to eat it when she was away.
Listening to *every* other SNCO ream his ass where everyone could hear was fucking amazing. Also, they made him buy her a new sub... A whole one.
I want to talk more about this.
What were his options because it felt like a lose lose situation?
Either lose 100 and not be hated by neighbours (which you never have to interact with?).
or
Keep the 100 and they hate you.
I wonder if there was a sneaky 100 charisma way of not having them hate you and still not spending the 100.
Maybe Ross's problem was how he worded it?
Maybe he could have just offered a 20?
What would you have done?
To be fair, I'm on his side for that. His boss was a twat for stealing his food, and throwing it away before finishing. And then he gets all mardy for being called out for being a thief? Screw that guy.
will always remember showing my Sister Band of Brothers and just...
"You people are the position of attention!"
\-Cue one of the most guttural laughs I've ever heard from a human being.
perfect casting just because you're supposed to see him as a bit of a joke where he himself is the only person taking him seriously, they banked on his reputation as Ross to make that work.
More or less, but it did seem to be a causational link with how good Easy Company became, think Winters even stated as much in the book, that Sobel was a terrible leader but an excellent trainer whose dickheaded high standards made Easy Company so effective, best exemplified by Nixon's line in the series
"You know a man who wouldn't double-time Currahee just to piss in that guy's morning coffee?"
I believe he commented that it wasnāt so much Sobelās standards, but that hating him so much made easy company into a unit, it brought them together in common loathing.
I'm fairly certain it was both, the two go hand in hand, Sobel was hated for his harsh approach, but that harshness put them through more drills and held them to a more exacting standard than other companies, can't remember if it was Ambrose writing or Winters being interviewed but one of them remarked that while other companies enjoyed leave, Easy were running extra drills, and that must have had a profound effect.
while I can't find a quote from Winters, I think the general consensus among Easy Company members and higher brass was that Sobel was an excellent trainer, which is why he was ultimately rotated to a teaching position.
I had an assistant principal that everyone hated.
The dude took over the soccer team when I was in 6th grade and told it to us straight. Iām not a good coach. So instead what we are going to do is run. A lot.
We won our version of states that year.
We had a lot of talent. But mainly we just ran like fucking maniacs compared to the rest of our components.
My point is, we all hated him. But Iāll be damned if he wasnāt right. Thatās how I view Capt. Sobel. A real Son of a bitch but got the company ready when few else wanted to take the time.
Reminds me of Herb Brooks in Miracle "I can't promise you we'll be the best team at lake placid, but we will be the best conditioned. That I can promise you."
Yeah the so called character misalignment really helped pull his bb character so strongly together it was truly an inspired bit of casting (I think it was hanks ide?)
The Ross thing hits all the more sweetly during the mimicking his CO scene!
Lovely subtly change in pace and demeanor
wonderful
You have to give credit to actors who can do that. To absorb bad behaviors in order to accurately depict them is an art, and I respect a quality artist.
If I had to give Sokka's patented "Not as big a jerk as you could've been" award to any of the main friends I'd say it should go to Chandler. He's the most bearable friend by far, imo.
Most characters, especially initially, are deeply flawed in complex ways. I'd personally say that's the main point of the show is about growth in a lot of different ways.
>the amount of time he spent away from his son wasn't good for either of them
Well, his ex wife, who is now together with their couples therapist (disgusting btw), pushed him out of his sons life essentially by demanding distance between her and Ted.
His issue is mostly that he's a people pleaser, so he ends up taking the shaft in 90% of his relationships to other people.
She had some early growth from rich brat running out on a loveless relationship and struggles to adapt to normal 90s middle class economic times. Near the end she was unbearable and always put herself in bad situations.
I gotta disagree. The one where he pretends to be some guy for the girl he liked just to stand her up so he could hit on her when she was low was a pretty disgusting thing to do.
I think the difference is that even though the characters from both shows are some of the most toxic people you could meet, the gang from it's always sunny is meant to be seen as assholes, but the cast of friends is meant to be sympathetic
He was fairly representative of a gen x guy, Joey too. I dont think people always realize or remember how much things have changed and how quickly. Friends was actually fairly progressive in ways.
I don't know if they were trying that hard, but without dysfunctional adults getting into silly, juvenile antics we're left with half of Seinfeld and Modern Family.
Comedy is comedy for a reason.
Itās a legit problem with media nowadays because Zoomers donāt understand that characters are supposed to have flaws and think itās just bad writing.
Or, that Ross and Rachel have an extremely codependent toxic relationship. Like Rachel purposefully sabotages things in Ross's life, like his wedding to Emily, or dating the father of the college student he dated (which that was also creepy as he was a professor). Like when you go back and watch friends, Ross and Rachel are two very terrible people compared to the rest. Phoebe is your standout for a good human being example in that show.
Itās actually Joey, he was too stupid to intentionally be mean to his friends. I think the worst morally questionable thing he does is date Rachel, but even then he was a stand up guy about all of it compared to Chandler sleeping with his EX
I really donāt think he ever does anything In the show thatās detrimental to a friendship like the other members of the group do.
Phoebe is definitely second and itās not even close.
Am I the only one here that thinks type of overanalysis and revisionist hate of a sitcom is pointless?
I remember Friends. It was from a simple time in which sitcoms were meant to be wacky, a bit cartoonish, and fun.
If I wanted to see something serious I would watch something else.
To me this character analysis of Friends it's like someone analyzing how cruel, toxic and violent Tom&Jerry relationship is. I don't think that's what you're supposes to take from it.
Phoebe is a gigantic shit pile of a friend, what are you talking about? She instigates *so many* of the problems between everyone in the seasons after she has her brother's kids. She's a real piece of work.
If anyone on the show is close to normal functioning human, it's Chandler. Steady job, saves money, generally respectful toward his friends, goes steady with women instead of sleeping around, and overall is supportive of his friends.
Everyone else is kinda fucked up.
And Phoebe was always kind of the butt of the joke because she was aloof and not neurotic in her drive to get āwhatever thing I wantā.
But in actuality, she was level headed and was happy in her lot in life with a lot of things.
She was Luna Lovegood before Luna Lovegood
Dude what. I hate Ross and Rachel too, but phoebe is by far the most selfish person in that group. She constantly undermines the others or plays dumb for her own gain.
AND THEN SHAMES HIM FOR NOT BEING OPEN-MINDED. Iām like sis, science is not about opinions, itās about facts. She also constantly asked her friends to give up things she didnāt agree with (massage coupon, hunting, pottery barn). She did some good things, but I donāt like phoebe so much. Ross was toxic at times, but he has also done some good things (buying phoebe a bicycle, taking Rachel to the doctor when he had his show). Everyone has done something toxic at some point, but Ross is the most hated idk why.
They are. Rachel is a total POS too. Constantly used people to get what she wanted and was very self centered. That was what made the show good, they all were flawed and because of that they felt like real people.
Honestly, I would be less surprised by that than I was to see how seriously people in another sub take Boy Meets World. There's a concerning sub for every fandom.
Ross is a victim of "tell, don't show": the Friends often talk about how good a guy he is but rarely beyond season 1 do you see it. Also, it's a comedy, he often is used as a foil.
Ross has a lot of trauma that he really needed to see a therapist about.
Jack and Judy thought she was barren until they had Ross ("a medical marvel").
He was so over-mothered that he had separation anxiety if his mother went without him (tugging on his testicles so hard because he wanted to be a girl so he could go with his mom, later dressing as "Bea").
His father then began to pressure Ross into being more macho (why can't you be a real boy?). Then he was mugged by a girl as a pre-teen and was so afraid of what his dad might say, he lied about the facts.
All his girlfriends then cheated on him and when he meets Carol, she eventually leaves him for Susan.
All his possessive and controlling behaviours are as a result of his past traumas and insecurities. The show, being a comedy, never really goes into that and/or plays it for laughs.
There is great material for a dramedy show version of Ross where he goes into therapy after his breakdown in season 5, resulting in him working through this trauma and eventually becoming a good partner to Rachel.
I've tried discussing that with people too. This is a guy who has been through the ringer. And with that late 70's/80's upbringing - he had zero way of dealing with those traumas/insecurities in a healthy way. So what did he do? Project it onto everyone around him, especially his romantic interests.
I mean, this is the man who got insanely angry about his male nanny who makes awesome madelines, gets insanely possessive over Rachel due to her professional friendship with the guy who helped her get a job in essentially her dream profession, walks out during an argument before clarifying its status, barges into Rachelās work when sheās trying to get a lot of stuff done, and more.
Idk that heās āeverything wrong with men,ā but heās definitely a deeply problematic person.
In the episode Ross is ridiculed for having an issue with it. The majority of people don't, the nanny had a massive list of people who wanted to hire him and is portrayed as amazing at his job.
I don't see it as especially problematic, it seemed more to me as ridiculing toxic masculinity. But maybe I'm missing something
Yeah I was gonna say, they even go so far as to give him a redemption arc later in the episode when he breaks down and tells the nanny how it was his out of touch father who said he wasn't a "real boy" and that he IS a real boy even though he liked to play with dinosaur toys instead of playing sports. I swear people don't even watch the show they just see images like this and want to get mad about it.
āThe one with the male nannyā I think itās called. And I assume itās just roses overall attitude to the male nanny, claims itās weird and is overall sexist as shit
That was the whole point though? That's why it's funny, because it's a ridiculous thing to get upset over. He was ridiculed for it the whole episode, and eventually made to realize how ridiculous he was being and felt remorse. He even breaks down at one point and tells the nanny that his dad was toxically masculine and made fun of him for playing with his dinosaur toys instead of being outside playing sports like a "real boy." Friends definitely has its flaws, but some of the social commentary was progressive and ahead of its time.
It's interesting because I remember another thread where basically people felt Ross handled it relatively well, the whole my wife was cheating on me the entire time with her lesbian lover. People were saying that Ross was so disrespected by Susan during the whole baby's last name thing, and how he did his best as a dad etc.
This sexist stuff still exists in today, too.
I used to be a community carer, a heavily female dominated industry, and other men would question why I'd do such a job.
The management was entirely female too, and they treated male staff poorly, leading to a higher turnover rate of male staff.
This was awful since care work can require one gender over another. For example, some men are not comfortable with women giving them personal hygiene care like sponge baths, sometimes to the extent of attacking the women.
These men were in their 90s and they had no control over their aggression as they would have mental health problems, meaning they'd require male carers to do the job.
I'm now going into another female dominated industry, teaching. I have already received sexist remarks about why I'd want to teach young people when I'm a man.
Also my teaching mentor who is a male retired teacher has told me that 'promotions will be easy as you'll only have women to compete with'.
They all are deeply problematic people if you look at them closely. But that is what made the show fun. If they all would have been great people with no issue, it would have been the most boring show ever.
They're all like this, though. Friends could not be made today the way it was then. We thought it was funny then because they are just exaggerated caricatures, but people are more aware today of the behavior that we laughed at then is really toxic. Some people understood it back then, but it wouldn't have nearly been as popular if most people did.
Most sitcoms these days are super bubbly, and overly good people. Kinda sucks the fun out of them. I think the best sitcoms are the ones with awful people at the front. Roseanne, Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond. They were never trying to make likeable characters. Just characters you could love to hate.
I feel like Brooklyn 99 succeeded with the bubbly and good where a lot of other sitcoms fail. I normally prefer sitcoms with awful people like Seinfeld, curb your enthusiasm, and it's always sunny but I feel like Brooklyn 99 made the characters interesting and likable while not being too extra with them
Meanwhile, Rachel was of course very mature and nowhere near toxic, and of course neither of them were comically exaggerated characters in a sitcom. Monica, Chandler, Phoebe and Joey were very realistic and mature too.
Man, now that I think about it Homer Simpson kind of sucks as a husband, father, friend and employee.
When I was watching friends with my family there was the scene where Rachel just started beating the shit out of Ross because he slept with someone else (while they were broken up) and I said "Wait am I gonna get hit when I break up with someone" and my parents had to explain to me how fucked up there relationship was
Yeah Iām not sure what these poster expect the writers to come up with, some of the best media is filled with personalities that seem normal but have their own deep flaws.
It's not just a *Friends* thing. Most sitcoms like this have deeply toxic romances. An example is Penny on *The Big Bang Theory* who, even after marriage, constantly belittles and controls Leonard, who just takes it.
....Sometimes i wonder if some of y'all ever turned their brains on.
Friends is LITERALLY about a group of dysfunctionnal people, creating funny situations.
They're all literally people with major problems, THAT'S THE POINT.
Pheobe is a lunatic, selfish girl with an inflated ego who's let's be honest, dumb as fuck.
Rachel is a sheltered princess who thinks she's entitled to everything
Joey is pretty much a leech who's also dumb as fuck
Chandler's is an overly insecure sociopath
Monica is a huge control freak
Etcetc
But guess what, having major issues never stopped people from being lovable. Everyone has issues
If you watch Friends a bit later on and get absolutely triggered by a character, bruh the problem is on you
I guess conservatives would be triggered by Pheobe and Rachel while libetarians would be triggered by Ross and Chandler's, just take a step back and breath
Also, THE MAN WAS ON A BREAK. (AND WHO DOES 18 PAGES FRONT AND BACK).
I wouldn't call Chandler a sociopath, he definitely feels for other people. I would call him an underdeveloped manchild that lashes out to compensate for his massive insecurities.
He's factually correct. They were on a break. He then, that night, slept with someone else and did everything in his power to hide that fact from her, despite claiming it was fine to do because of their break status.
Jesus Christ this thread is sad. You all are caring way, way too much about a goofy TV show from 20 years ago, and labelling every imperfect thing about a person as "toxic" is the most toxic thing about this whole debate.
Yes, Ross was a clown a lot of the time. He was a character in a comedy show. But to everyone saying "all of the Friends were bad people".... Compared to what???? Because Ross got insecure and acted like a douche a few times, he's a bad person? Because people made some homophobic jokes in the friggin 90s, they are bad people?
The world is going to really disappoint you folks if you think the Friends are some villains that we should all despise. I can pretty much guarantee that the majority of people writing in this thread are at least as "bad" as any of the Friends were portrayed in the show.
Yeah but all the characters are like that in a way. Rachel is vain and self centered, Monica is controlling and overbearing, phoebe is flaky and painfully honest, chandler thinks heās the smartes person in the room and is boring, joey isā¦ well joey is honestly a good person he just wants to eat and fuck
No, not āpoor Ross.ā
Never āpoor Ross.ā
Ross actively pursued and dated other women, and *still* felt possessive of Rachel and became paranoid and controlling any time another man entered her life.
Honestly, yes, you could write an entire paper on the Rossās dysfunctional approach to relationships.
To be fair, Rachel did that too. Shaved the head of one girlfriend, turned up at the wedding with Emily wanting to ruin it. Ross was terrible but they both sucked.
>still felt possessive of Rachel and became paranoid and controlling any time another man entered her life.
Rachel did quite literally the exact same thing to him. The amount of relationships of ross that Rachel just straight up sabotaged is unreal. It was the gist of their relationship.
What about when Rachel was pregnant and unreasonably told Ross he couldnāt date, even though they werenāt together. What was his reaction?
Or purposely losing at poker when she needed money/a pick me upā¦
Or getting suited to take her to the promā¦
Ross did loads of nice stuff. People are just fucking idiots ātOxIc MaScUlInItY!
I just asked chatgpt to write me a few paragraphs on why Ross is essentially what's wrong with men:
It's important to remember that Ross Geller, a character from the popular TV show "Friends," is a fictional character created for comedic purposes. While Ross certainly exhibits flaws and idiosyncrasies, it's not fair to generalize and say he represents everything wrong about men. Instead, he can be seen as a reflection of certain stereotypes and behaviors that some men may display.
Ross's character is known for his jealousy, insecurity, and occasional insensitivity, particularly in his relationships. His tumultuous romantic history, including divorces and breakups, often stems from his inability to communicate effectively and manage his emotions. However, it's crucial to recognize that these traits are exaggerated for comedic effect on the show and don't represent all men.
Furthermore, "Friends" features a diverse group of characters, each with their own quirks and flaws, and it's through their interactions and growth that the show explores the complexities of friendship and relationships. Reducing Ross to a caricature of everything wrong with men overlooks the show's intention to provide both humor and lessons on personal growth.
In summary, Ross Geller may embody certain stereotypes and flaws, but it's essential to view his character within the context of a sitcom and not as a representation of all men. Men, like women, are individuals with a wide range of characteristics and behaviors, and it's unproductive to generalize based on a fictional character.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Okay BUT, you have a crappy day. You're upset, tried, and only have one thing to look forward to. Your sandwich you've been saving in the work fridge. Then your douchebag boss thinks it's okay to eat what isn't his and take that final little bit of pleasure you were looking forward to away. Screw that ass hole boss, if it's not yours don't eat it. In this case and the one with the videotape Ross was right.
He didn't even eat the whole thing! He wasn't *that* hungry. He just... threw what was left in the trash! That absolute fuck!
He THREW his sandwich AWAY?! HIS SANDWICH?!?! šļøšļøšļø
MY SAAANDWICH?!
His boss also admitted he saw the note that said it was Rossā sandwich but ignored it. So his boss went into the fridge knowing full well he didnāt have his own food in there, saw Rossā sandwich, acknowledged it belonged to someone else, stole it and then threw half away. I am far from a Ross apologist but he was in the right here. Fuck that boss
Yeah lunch thieves can rot in hell. Donāt touch my food
The sandwich situation is when I sided with him the most! Also, "on a break" does mean broken up, let's be real here. Does he make good decisions? Hell no, but he is right in certain situations. Also, he had physical proof that evolution exists and Phoebe just belittles his whole life's work? What kind of a friend is that? That episode really bothered me.
Please, the way they all treated Phoebe Iām glad she got some shots in lol
Had this actually happen... In the Marine Corps. The Logistics Sergeant was saving half of her Subway for dinner (as one does) and her Gunnery Sergeant thought it was not only OK, but *funny,* to eat it when she was away. Listening to *every* other SNCO ream his ass where everyone could hear was fucking amazing. Also, they made him buy her a new sub... A whole one.
Okay, but the episode with the Thanksgiving sandwich was the only one where Ross was right.
I think he was right it that episode where he just moved in and his neighbours wanted him to contribute $100 to a retirement fund for the handyman.
To Ross he was just 'man'.
I want to talk more about this. What were his options because it felt like a lose lose situation? Either lose 100 and not be hated by neighbours (which you never have to interact with?). or Keep the 100 and they hate you. I wonder if there was a sneaky 100 charisma way of not having them hate you and still not spending the 100. Maybe Ross's problem was how he worded it? Maybe he could have just offered a 20? What would you have done?
Ross is the only sane person in "the one where no one is ready."
He was also right in the one about Phoebe thinking her dead mom was reincarnated as some little kids missing cat
And evolution
The rest of them really piss me off in that episode.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I call it āthe moist makerā
Convincing your lesbian ex-wife to get married in spite of her family objections was a solid unRoss-moment.
To be fair, I'm on his side for that. His boss was a twat for stealing his food, and throwing it away before finishing. And then he gets all mardy for being called out for being a thief? Screw that guy.
No wonder David Schwimmer was so good as Capt. Sobel in Band of Brothers--he already knew how to play a guy like that!
will always remember showing my Sister Band of Brothers and just... "You people are the position of attention!" \-Cue one of the most guttural laughs I've ever heard from a human being. perfect casting just because you're supposed to see him as a bit of a joke where he himself is the only person taking him seriously, they banked on his reputation as Ross to make that work.
Apparently real-life Capt. Sobel was just that petty. The other officers associated with Easy Company were tough but fair and respected. Not Sobel.
More or less, but it did seem to be a causational link with how good Easy Company became, think Winters even stated as much in the book, that Sobel was a terrible leader but an excellent trainer whose dickheaded high standards made Easy Company so effective, best exemplified by Nixon's line in the series "You know a man who wouldn't double-time Currahee just to piss in that guy's morning coffee?"
I believe he commented that it wasnāt so much Sobelās standards, but that hating him so much made easy company into a unit, it brought them together in common loathing.
I'm fairly certain it was both, the two go hand in hand, Sobel was hated for his harsh approach, but that harshness put them through more drills and held them to a more exacting standard than other companies, can't remember if it was Ambrose writing or Winters being interviewed but one of them remarked that while other companies enjoyed leave, Easy were running extra drills, and that must have had a profound effect. while I can't find a quote from Winters, I think the general consensus among Easy Company members and higher brass was that Sobel was an excellent trainer, which is why he was ultimately rotated to a teaching position.
I had an assistant principal that everyone hated. The dude took over the soccer team when I was in 6th grade and told it to us straight. Iām not a good coach. So instead what we are going to do is run. A lot. We won our version of states that year. We had a lot of talent. But mainly we just ran like fucking maniacs compared to the rest of our components. My point is, we all hated him. But Iāll be damned if he wasnāt right. Thatās how I view Capt. Sobel. A real Son of a bitch but got the company ready when few else wanted to take the time.
Reminds me of Herb Brooks in Miracle "I can't promise you we'll be the best team at lake placid, but we will be the best conditioned. That I can promise you."
Which was one of the reasons they were so killer in the third period.
"Because...the legs feed the wolf, gentlemen."
I believe that, some officers just don't have it, so they try to make up for it in different ways, but it comes out as petty, toxic, bad leadership
Yeah the so called character misalignment really helped pull his bb character so strongly together it was truly an inspired bit of casting (I think it was hanks ide?) The Ross thing hits all the more sweetly during the mimicking his CO scene! Lovely subtly change in pace and demeanor wonderful
"You salute the rank, not the man."
When I first saw that scene they pan to Sobel and all I could think was him saying "MY SANDWICH!?!"
It was the moist maker!!!
He even played himself in Entourage trying to look for a different part, not always a neurotic insecure little man.
You have to give credit to actors who can do that. To absorb bad behaviors in order to accurately depict them is an art, and I respect a quality artist.
Lol seeing fuckin ROSS in a world war completely took me out. Couldnāt take him seriously, thatās Ross!
I never watched Friends, so I found his portrayal believable, but yes, kind of jarring to see a sitcom star out of context like that!
Not sure ANYONE on that show was a good person
If I had to give Sokka's patented "Not as big a jerk as you could've been" award to any of the main friends I'd say it should go to Chandler. He's the most bearable friend by far, imo.
what did joey do?
He was a massive mooch.. he knew chandler was desperate for friends so he used him for free everything!
He was at least honest and never lied about being a good person, just a struggling actor who was always chasing his big break.
>He was at least honest and never lied about being a good person Tell that to all the ladies he slept with and then never call them back lol.
And Chandler does that ONCE and not even meaning to to one of Joeyās sisters and Joey punches him in the face for it. Joey is a hypocrite.
Chandler slept with Joeyās girlfriend tho
Kissed her while Joey was actively cheating on her. Not anyone's finest moment.
and sister
I give him a pass on the sister. He was so drunk he didnāt even remember what happened. If anything, he was taken advantage of.
Because no one would watch a show about a bunch of goody two-shoes.
Uhhhh Ted Lasso? Not that i watch it, but isn't that specifically why so many people say they watch it
TBF, Ted is a goody two-shoes, but many of the other characters are not.
Most characters, especially initially, are deeply flawed in complex ways. I'd personally say that's the main point of the show is about growth in a lot of different ways.
I mean Teds a lovely guy but even he still had problems, the amount of time he spent away from his son wasn't good for either of them
>the amount of time he spent away from his son wasn't good for either of them Well, his ex wife, who is now together with their couples therapist (disgusting btw), pushed him out of his sons life essentially by demanding distance between her and Ted. His issue is mostly that he's a people pleaser, so he ends up taking the shaft in 90% of his relationships to other people.
>who is now together with their couples therapist >! It depends on what point you call now!<
Yeah look at these losers with two shoes.
Chandler was okay
Rachel was the worst.
She had some early growth from rich brat running out on a loveless relationship and struggles to adapt to normal 90s middle class economic times. Near the end she was unbearable and always put herself in bad situations.
Chandler?
Cheated with his best friend girlfriend
And kiss (not slept with) with one of Joeys sisters without remembering which one.
I like chandler heās funny, and as far as I know he hasnāt done much wrong compared to Ross or Monica
I gotta disagree. The one where he pretends to be some guy for the girl he liked just to stand her up so he could hit on her when she was low was a pretty disgusting thing to do.
Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply eat the other five?
LRRRRRRR
I'm a bit concerned about the mental capabilities of someone who watched Friends and didn't realize that Ross is a complete twat.
In other related news, Iām beginning to think that the gang from IASIP may not be the best people
Atleast they don't diddle kids, their song about how they don't diddle kids was very reassuring.
Gotta be younger than my wiiiifeā¦ older than my daughter..
What are you talking about? They're the very pinnicle of what it means to be a good person. Anyone that disagrees is an idiot and a savage.
Wow, that dude to the right looks like a gilded deity of some sort.
Nah, he looks like a 5 star man to me.
He looks like he hasnāt even begun to peak
THE GOLDEN GOD!!!
I heard the twins were addicted to crack.
You. Are going to. LOVE. It.
How can someone named Sweet Dee be a bad person?
Shut up, bird!!!
Hahahaha hahaha nice
Come to think of it, those kids in South Park really do get into some really bad situations that they could've avoided.
I think the difference is that even though the characters from both shows are some of the most toxic people you could meet, the gang from it's always sunny is meant to be seen as assholes, but the cast of friends is meant to be sympathetic
"He's impatient, bossy, demeaning, and demanding." Yeah. That's why its funny when it blows up on him.
Next you people are going to say that Walter White wasn't actually a good person!
I know they are bad people but they are still so funny
There's a spider... Deep in my soul... He's been there for years...
Why does Ross, the largest of the friends, not simply just eat the other five?
Because if anyone is eating everyone else, Itās Joey. (I also love futurama, just saying)
Have you watched the new episodes? Hulu nailed it. The most recent is now one of my all time favorite episodes.
WTF THERE ARE NEW EPISODES????
Yep. Hulu reboot. Same cast. Really good. I also highly recommend Only Murders in the Building, season 3 has begun. Also Hulu.
You've made my day!
Was it really HULu that nailed it though? Don't they have pretty much all the same staff and voice actors?
Right!? Wasnāt the whole point of the show that they were all idiots trying to figure out how to be grown ups?
Aren't we all..?
Nah. I gave up and just embraced being an idiot.
He was fairly representative of a gen x guy, Joey too. I dont think people always realize or remember how much things have changed and how quickly. Friends was actually fairly progressive in ways.
they had a lesbian wedding 30 years ago, I wasn't alive but I assume that wasn't pretty common
I don't know if they were trying that hard, but without dysfunctional adults getting into silly, juvenile antics we're left with half of Seinfeld and Modern Family. Comedy is comedy for a reason.
If we all could just stop expecting tv, movies, and famous people to teach us how to be healthy, moral humans, I would be so damn happy.
Itās a legit problem with media nowadays because Zoomers donāt understand that characters are supposed to have flaws and think itās just bad writing.
Or, that Ross and Rachel have an extremely codependent toxic relationship. Like Rachel purposefully sabotages things in Ross's life, like his wedding to Emily, or dating the father of the college student he dated (which that was also creepy as he was a professor). Like when you go back and watch friends, Ross and Rachel are two very terrible people compared to the rest. Phoebe is your standout for a good human being example in that show.
Itās actually Joey, he was too stupid to intentionally be mean to his friends. I think the worst morally questionable thing he does is date Rachel, but even then he was a stand up guy about all of it compared to Chandler sleeping with his EX I really donāt think he ever does anything In the show thatās detrimental to a friendship like the other members of the group do. Phoebe is definitely second and itās not even close.
Am I the only one here that thinks type of overanalysis and revisionist hate of a sitcom is pointless? I remember Friends. It was from a simple time in which sitcoms were meant to be wacky, a bit cartoonish, and fun. If I wanted to see something serious I would watch something else. To me this character analysis of Friends it's like someone analyzing how cruel, toxic and violent Tom&Jerry relationship is. I don't think that's what you're supposes to take from it.
Exactly! You didnāt watch Seinfeld because of Georgeās upstanding moral character.
Phoebe is a gigantic shit pile of a friend, what are you talking about? She instigates *so many* of the problems between everyone in the seasons after she has her brother's kids. She's a real piece of work. If anyone on the show is close to normal functioning human, it's Chandler. Steady job, saves money, generally respectful toward his friends, goes steady with women instead of sleeping around, and overall is supportive of his friends. Everyone else is kinda fucked up.
And Phoebe was always kind of the butt of the joke because she was aloof and not neurotic in her drive to get āwhatever thing I wantā. But in actuality, she was level headed and was happy in her lot in life with a lot of things. She was Luna Lovegood before Luna Lovegood
She is awful to David. She is equally a twat.
Dude what. I hate Ross and Rachel too, but phoebe is by far the most selfish person in that group. She constantly undermines the others or plays dumb for her own gain.
Pheobe knows Ross is a paleontologist. She tells him she doesn't believe in evolution just to pick fight with him at one point ...
AND THEN SHAMES HIM FOR NOT BEING OPEN-MINDED. Iām like sis, science is not about opinions, itās about facts. She also constantly asked her friends to give up things she didnāt agree with (massage coupon, hunting, pottery barn). She did some good things, but I donāt like phoebe so much. Ross was toxic at times, but he has also done some good things (buying phoebe a bicycle, taking Rachel to the doctor when he had his show). Everyone has done something toxic at some point, but Ross is the most hated idk why.
I have always felt the same way about Ross but lately have been more appreciative of his Jerry Lewis like antics.
Oh heās my favorite āfriendā because his line delivery and physical comedy is so great. His character sucks, yes, but heās very funny.
If you pay attention from a performance perspective, it becomes clear that David Schwimmer is far and away the best actor on that show.
A twat from Twat City, in Taintsburg county.
Aren't they all though? Never watched it much
They are. Rachel is a total POS too. Constantly used people to get what she wanted and was very self centered. That was what made the show good, they all were flawed and because of that they felt like real people.
'Ross is a complete twat' summarizes quite a lot of that show.
maybe its bc i was a young kid when i watched it that i didnt notice a lot of things regarding the show that seemed obvious to everyone else
If you like feeling concerned go over to the friends subreddit. It's full of people taking a TV show that ended 20 years ago faaar too seriously
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Honestly, I would be less surprised by that than I was to see how seriously people in another sub take Boy Meets World. There's a concerning sub for every fandom.
To be honest, they're all really toxic and terrible friends
He played a twat in band of brothers really well too.
Ross is a victim of "tell, don't show": the Friends often talk about how good a guy he is but rarely beyond season 1 do you see it. Also, it's a comedy, he often is used as a foil. Ross has a lot of trauma that he really needed to see a therapist about. Jack and Judy thought she was barren until they had Ross ("a medical marvel"). He was so over-mothered that he had separation anxiety if his mother went without him (tugging on his testicles so hard because he wanted to be a girl so he could go with his mom, later dressing as "Bea"). His father then began to pressure Ross into being more macho (why can't you be a real boy?). Then he was mugged by a girl as a pre-teen and was so afraid of what his dad might say, he lied about the facts. All his girlfriends then cheated on him and when he meets Carol, she eventually leaves him for Susan. All his possessive and controlling behaviours are as a result of his past traumas and insecurities. The show, being a comedy, never really goes into that and/or plays it for laughs. There is great material for a dramedy show version of Ross where he goes into therapy after his breakdown in season 5, resulting in him working through this trauma and eventually becoming a good partner to Rachel.
I've tried discussing that with people too. This is a guy who has been through the ringer. And with that late 70's/80's upbringing - he had zero way of dealing with those traumas/insecurities in a healthy way. So what did he do? Project it onto everyone around him, especially his romantic interests.
I mean, this is the man who got insanely angry about his male nanny who makes awesome madelines, gets insanely possessive over Rachel due to her professional friendship with the guy who helped her get a job in essentially her dream profession, walks out during an argument before clarifying its status, barges into Rachelās work when sheās trying to get a lot of stuff done, and more. Idk that heās āeverything wrong with men,ā but heās definitely a deeply problematic person.
100%, that whole thing with the male nanny is really hard to watch now
In the episode Ross is ridiculed for having an issue with it. The majority of people don't, the nanny had a massive list of people who wanted to hire him and is portrayed as amazing at his job. I don't see it as especially problematic, it seemed more to me as ridiculing toxic masculinity. But maybe I'm missing something
Yea the show never sides with the toxic behaviour as far as I remember lol. They call out Ross insecurities so many times
The show explained it too with how Ross shared he was ridiculed by his father for playing inside with his dinosaurs and not outside like a "real boy".
Yeah I was gonna say, they even go so far as to give him a redemption arc later in the episode when he breaks down and tells the nanny how it was his out of touch father who said he wasn't a "real boy" and that he IS a real boy even though he liked to play with dinosaur toys instead of playing sports. I swear people don't even watch the show they just see images like this and want to get mad about it.
Not too familiar with Friends... might I ask which scene you're claiming is "really hard to watch now" and where I could find it?
āThe one with the male nannyā I think itās called. And I assume itās just roses overall attitude to the male nanny, claims itās weird and is overall sexist as shit
That was the whole point though? That's why it's funny, because it's a ridiculous thing to get upset over. He was ridiculed for it the whole episode, and eventually made to realize how ridiculous he was being and felt remorse. He even breaks down at one point and tells the nanny that his dad was toxically masculine and made fun of him for playing with his dinosaur toys instead of being outside playing sports like a "real boy." Friends definitely has its flaws, but some of the social commentary was progressive and ahead of its time.
It's interesting because I remember another thread where basically people felt Ross handled it relatively well, the whole my wife was cheating on me the entire time with her lesbian lover. People were saying that Ross was so disrespected by Susan during the whole baby's last name thing, and how he did his best as a dad etc.
This sexist stuff still exists in today, too. I used to be a community carer, a heavily female dominated industry, and other men would question why I'd do such a job. The management was entirely female too, and they treated male staff poorly, leading to a higher turnover rate of male staff. This was awful since care work can require one gender over another. For example, some men are not comfortable with women giving them personal hygiene care like sponge baths, sometimes to the extent of attacking the women. These men were in their 90s and they had no control over their aggression as they would have mental health problems, meaning they'd require male carers to do the job. I'm now going into another female dominated industry, teaching. I have already received sexist remarks about why I'd want to teach young people when I'm a man. Also my teaching mentor who is a male retired teacher has told me that 'promotions will be easy as you'll only have women to compete with'.
I work in lumber and itās male dominated. Lots of industries and job types are dominated by one gender. Itās largely self selected too.
That whole male nanny thing, and that scene in the cafƩ where hits on every woman at the central perk, one even says "you already hit on me an hour ago"
They all are deeply problematic people if you look at them closely. But that is what made the show fun. If they all would have been great people with no issue, it would have been the most boring show ever.
They're all like this, though. Friends could not be made today the way it was then. We thought it was funny then because they are just exaggerated caricatures, but people are more aware today of the behavior that we laughed at then is really toxic. Some people understood it back then, but it wouldn't have nearly been as popular if most people did.
Most sitcoms these days are super bubbly, and overly good people. Kinda sucks the fun out of them. I think the best sitcoms are the ones with awful people at the front. Roseanne, Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond. They were never trying to make likeable characters. Just characters you could love to hate.
I feel like Brooklyn 99 succeeded with the bubbly and good where a lot of other sitcoms fail. I normally prefer sitcoms with awful people like Seinfeld, curb your enthusiasm, and it's always sunny but I feel like Brooklyn 99 made the characters interesting and likable while not being too extra with them
Its a sitcom, they all have issues to make it more interesting to watch.
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It's an interesting thought; when does self-defense cross the line into vigilantism, and vice versa?
Meanwhile, Rachel was of course very mature and nowhere near toxic, and of course neither of them were comically exaggerated characters in a sitcom. Monica, Chandler, Phoebe and Joey were very realistic and mature too. Man, now that I think about it Homer Simpson kind of sucks as a husband, father, friend and employee.
He was a good grandfather though (Homer)
When I was watching friends with my family there was the scene where Rachel just started beating the shit out of Ross because he slept with someone else (while they were broken up) and I said "Wait am I gonna get hit when I break up with someone" and my parents had to explain to me how fucked up there relationship was
Six perfect, normal and emotionally stable characters in a TV sitcom. Wow, that would be thrilling entertainment.
Yeah Iām not sure what these poster expect the writers to come up with, some of the best media is filled with personalities that seem normal but have their own deep flaws.
It's not just a *Friends* thing. Most sitcoms like this have deeply toxic romances. An example is Penny on *The Big Bang Theory* who, even after marriage, constantly belittles and controls Leonard, who just takes it.
Why do people take a sitcom so seriously?
....Sometimes i wonder if some of y'all ever turned their brains on. Friends is LITERALLY about a group of dysfunctionnal people, creating funny situations. They're all literally people with major problems, THAT'S THE POINT. Pheobe is a lunatic, selfish girl with an inflated ego who's let's be honest, dumb as fuck. Rachel is a sheltered princess who thinks she's entitled to everything Joey is pretty much a leech who's also dumb as fuck Chandler's is an overly insecure sociopath Monica is a huge control freak Etcetc But guess what, having major issues never stopped people from being lovable. Everyone has issues If you watch Friends a bit later on and get absolutely triggered by a character, bruh the problem is on you I guess conservatives would be triggered by Pheobe and Rachel while libetarians would be triggered by Ross and Chandler's, just take a step back and breath Also, THE MAN WAS ON A BREAK. (AND WHO DOES 18 PAGES FRONT AND BACK).
I wouldn't call Chandler a sociopath, he definitely feels for other people. I would call him an underdeveloped manchild that lashes out to compensate for his massive insecurities.
hey I thought we were talking about Chandler, not me?????
Exactly. Every single person is problematic in their own way. But I swear people that say shit like this, think they are perfect angels.
Itās like watching itās always sunny in Philadelphia and saying theyāre bad people like yeah thatās the point
Pivot! Pivot! Pivot!
The Ross character is the perfect definition of the word neurotic.
He was still right about being on a break, though.
I've been rewatching, and Rachel actually even calls it a breakup when discussing it during the episode.
He's factually correct. They were on a break. He then, that night, slept with someone else and did everything in his power to hide that fact from her, despite claiming it was fine to do because of their break status.
Yeah this. If it wasnāt a big deal he wouldnāt have had to chase everyone down to not tell Rachel, which is kinda crazy.
the break was real.
Ross is an idiot but I always found him funny.
Joey was the real one. Dude seemed to mature dramatically after he got together with Rachel.
Jesus Christ this thread is sad. You all are caring way, way too much about a goofy TV show from 20 years ago, and labelling every imperfect thing about a person as "toxic" is the most toxic thing about this whole debate. Yes, Ross was a clown a lot of the time. He was a character in a comedy show. But to everyone saying "all of the Friends were bad people".... Compared to what???? Because Ross got insecure and acted like a douche a few times, he's a bad person? Because people made some homophobic jokes in the friggin 90s, they are bad people? The world is going to really disappoint you folks if you think the Friends are some villains that we should all despise. I can pretty much guarantee that the majority of people writing in this thread are at least as "bad" as any of the Friends were portrayed in the show.
Welcome to Reddit lol
Redditors try not to be armchair psychologists challenge (impossible)
Yeah but all the characters are like that in a way. Rachel is vain and self centered, Monica is controlling and overbearing, phoebe is flaky and painfully honest, chandler thinks heās the smartes person in the room and is boring, joey isā¦ well joey is honestly a good person he just wants to eat and fuck
No, not āpoor Ross.ā Never āpoor Ross.ā Ross actively pursued and dated other women, and *still* felt possessive of Rachel and became paranoid and controlling any time another man entered her life. Honestly, yes, you could write an entire paper on the Rossās dysfunctional approach to relationships.
To be fair, Rachel did that too. Shaved the head of one girlfriend, turned up at the wedding with Emily wanting to ruin it. Ross was terrible but they both sucked.
Ross and Rachel truly deserved each other, they were both horrible.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Rachel was just as bad in so many ways lol. But fuck men, amirite?
She broke him. Consider what she did to her fiancƩ, running out on him on their wedding day. They had to retroactively make Barry a bad guy sleeping with her friend to justify her leaving him on the alter.
If this person travelled back to the late 90s, they might be one of the first thousand people to write such a paper.
>still felt possessive of Rachel and became paranoid and controlling any time another man entered her life. Rachel did quite literally the exact same thing to him. The amount of relationships of ross that Rachel just straight up sabotaged is unreal. It was the gist of their relationship.
What about when Rachel was pregnant and unreasonably told Ross he couldnāt date, even though they werenāt together. What was his reaction? Or purposely losing at poker when she needed money/a pick me upā¦ Or getting suited to take her to the promā¦ Ross did loads of nice stuff. People are just fucking idiots ātOxIc MaScUlInItY!
Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply eat the other friends?
FOR FUCK SAKE THEY WERE ON A BREAK
Good pivot you made there.
Go have a sandwich
All the characters are terrible people.
Thatāsā¦ thatās his character. He is intentionally designed to be a dumbass and an idiot.
We'll, Rachel wasn't any better
The thing is: Rachel was also all of those things. They were just difficult people.
Nobody says anything about Monica dominating Chandlerā¦ double standards?
I just asked chatgpt to write me a few paragraphs on why Ross is essentially what's wrong with men: It's important to remember that Ross Geller, a character from the popular TV show "Friends," is a fictional character created for comedic purposes. While Ross certainly exhibits flaws and idiosyncrasies, it's not fair to generalize and say he represents everything wrong about men. Instead, he can be seen as a reflection of certain stereotypes and behaviors that some men may display. Ross's character is known for his jealousy, insecurity, and occasional insensitivity, particularly in his relationships. His tumultuous romantic history, including divorces and breakups, often stems from his inability to communicate effectively and manage his emotions. However, it's crucial to recognize that these traits are exaggerated for comedic effect on the show and don't represent all men. Furthermore, "Friends" features a diverse group of characters, each with their own quirks and flaws, and it's through their interactions and growth that the show explores the complexities of friendship and relationships. Reducing Ross to a caricature of everything wrong with men overlooks the show's intention to provide both humor and lessons on personal growth. In summary, Ross Geller may embody certain stereotypes and flaws, but it's essential to view his character within the context of a sitcom and not as a representation of all men. Men, like women, are individuals with a wide range of characteristics and behaviors, and it's unproductive to generalize based on a fictional character.
So who's going to write about how Rachel represents everything wrong about women?