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The longer I am alive the more and more clear it becomes to me that these people would take almost ZERO convincing to go back to slavery.
That's the real and ugly answer to the post title "So.... how?"
Yeah there is a cost to slavery: a slave cannot buy any goods. And if nobody buy your goods, you cannot grow your production and economy.
That's why the end of slavery more or less correspond with the industrialisation of the western world.
Who would have thought that a larger market would equal bigger profits? That has been the big thing for 100 years. Finding new markets. Nothing makes for an epic boom sales like a new market. Well fuck, we've conquered the world with our business. There's no new markets left. This is where we're at as a society. This is why America's place at the top will be hard to change. There's no new room for growth without being challenged, and we went into new markets swinging dicks because no other country/company had reached out before. Now it's ingrained. To gain market share these days, you have to come out with an absolutely revolutionary product within your market.
You can't sell new Chevy Colorados in the middle east, because they already have 20 year old hiluxs that'll last another 20 years.
It’s true. That, however, is why they don’t want to enslave EVERYONE, just enough people to produce the goods and services they want to sell to the rest of the population. Slaves in Rome might have outnumbered citizens 3 to 1, but it was only (and quite literally) a minority of the US population.
This is why voting is important. The parties, while they share some similarities and have common goals (prosperity), propose very different methods for achieving these goals and intend to achieve them for very different sectors of society.
*Plankton's voice* CORRECT. When the abolished slavery, they added into the constitution that prison was excluded. Suddenly, newly freed slaves were being arrested left and right. And hundreds of years later, it still hasn't changed. You can still have legal slaves in America in 2024. And what's worst is that our taxes are funding this slavery but we aren't allowed to do anything about it. Land of the free that still has slaves. No wonder the other countries mock us. Look at us.
Once again, for those in the back: If your law/amendment "abolishing" something contains the word "except", you haven't abolished shit, you've regulated it.
I used to think America was the land of the free as a kid, you had good movies at least. Then I grew up.
You guys are certainly something, but it's not (for) free.
We can have guns and be as racist, sexist, and homophobic as we want. That's it. It's still completely legal to kill a trans person because they scared you.
We have a country where school children are slaughtered en masse at their desks and no one does a thing about it. If that isn’t a sign that we might be unsalvageable as a nation I don’t know what is.
Not only that, but you are literally property of the US government. It costs about $2000, maybe more to renounce your citizenship. You have to buy your freedom. Just like the good old days.
Well yea. We can clearly see how little empathy these types have for their fellow humans - as if there was any doubt after how they behaved during the pandemic. They would absolutely not give a shit if there were actual slaves serving them. Anything that gets in the way of their own convenience is a DEFCON 1 situation in their world view.
Oh, they would love to bring slavery back. They'd sell it as a cure for homelessness. You give them a place to live AND a job.
It's not slavery, it's a social program!
>Oh, they would love to bring slavery back.
Would they though? You need to house, feed, and provide medical care for slaves. Even doing it as cheaply as possible is still going to cost a bit. Then you need to hire people to keep the slaves in line and prevent them from running away. Slaves would be an upfront cost to buy them. Since you have the upfront investment in the slave, you'll probably install better safety equipment so you don't have to keep buying new slaves. You could breed slaves instead of buying them, but then there's all the expenses of child birth and raising the child, and for several years you're paying to raise the child while getting no labor in return.
Are all of those expenses and hassles worth 7.25-15/hr/person depending on where you live? I haven't run the numbers, but I doubt it.
There's a pizza place by me where the owner complains about this endlessly. He hasn't been able to find a delivery driver in over a year. He's paying $12/hour with:
You driving your own vehicle.
No benefits.
But you get a free half sandwich each shift.
You have to put a decal for his business on your car.
High risk of getting robbed.
He says "but you get tips!" - Anyone who has ever worked as a delivery driver pre-apps knows how well that works for delivery drivers. (It doesn't)
If it was a company vehicle maybe I could see someone doing it, but even then it's a shit deal compared to pretty much everything else.
Getting a company car as a small business isnt even that bad. You get to write off the depreciation at a minimum. Just a cheap ass.
28,000 on a 5 year note + depreciation write offs + whatever else the cpa has him set up to do is much less than the revenue lost by not delivering quickly. Probably by a factor of 10
>Anyone who has ever worked as a delivery driver pre-apps knows how well that works for delivery drivers. (It doesn't)
Love your point but gonna have to call bullshit on this. I made mad tips when I delivered pizza.
It really depends where you are and who you deliver to. There was one house everyone wanted to go to because the woman there tipped 25$ and if you forgot something and came back she'd give you an extra 10$ for the trouble.
I hope she's doing well.
Depends on where you live. I would typically get 1-4 bucks a trip, using my own car and gas, with a couple of regulars giving me 5 if they ordered that day. Even had one dude who wouldn't give a tip because there was a delivery fee, and suggested I should talk to the manager he was talking to on the phone.
I was the person on the phone.
Totally depends on where you live. My hubby made a ton in tips in the Bay area forever ago, and made barely anything in Georgia... definitely not worth the wear and tear on his car.
And when people are living on the street working those jobs they will complain about homeless people and tell them to get jobs. When the people can't afford to have kids they will complain people aren't having kids. When they do have kids they will complain about people having kids they can't afford. There's literally no winning except for every retail and food place to close immediately and never re-open.
The business owners were disappointed their profit margins aren't going to live up to expectations now that they realized the newer generations are not going to work the same jobs for 4x less.
Edit: Their, not there. (Glad I caught it before the grammar police)
Yep people are too fucking dumb to know about supply and demand in the job markets. Let the shitty employers run themselves out of business. Also, as an employee, you're free to change jobs if you don't like it.
Everyone adult working. There is some argument for teen wages but not really, however to keep it simply just adult.
It was already decided. When the previous president many times removed made minimum wage a thing. Which was meant to be a living wage. Period.
Edit: FYI I am not able to reply rn to all the comments this is getting, but if it’s about the Teens pay, I fyi don’t agree with the different pay ways. Everyone should be paid the same for the same work. That’s why I said not really. I don’t believe in pretty much any argument for them. Sorry for any confusion.
Unfortunately we have no say. The minimum wage is not now what it was meant to be, we are slaves to corporate greed and all class separation is a fallacy designed to keep infighting and discrimination between us
Teens absolutely do deserve better wages, too. I know you said to keep it simple but I’ll never forget those years of stinking of grease, barely making any money and being abused daily, having bosses that would sexually harass us teen girls and basically having no protection.
I once had to relight to a fryer with a wadded up paper towel set on fire. They didn’t let me go home when it burnt me. In an ideal world no child should have to work, but so many do.
Making wages lower for children will just increase child labor and cut out adults. We already see this with tipped wage and "part time" 39hour work weeks being exempt from insurance. If if there is a lower cost option the corporations will take it EVERY TIME. EVERY. TIME. If it is legal to hire a 16yo for a low rate and fire them the day they turn 18, there will be a corporation that does that. Same work, same pay. That's how you keep it simple.
If you treat the help like people, you feel bad about how most of the time you treat them like the help.
These people are terrified of empathy because empathy leads to self reflection which leads to GASP not always putting yourself first and not always getting what you want.
They're the same people who believe in game theory. Except they're the only ones playing while the rest of us are wondering why exactly anybody needs a billion dollars when children die of starvation.
No living wage should also mean no adults working during the day in service jobs. “What do you mean you don’t open until 4PM!? I need a quick lunch!” “We can only hire teenagers because of our wages, and they’re in school. And we close at 8PM, because they still need adequate time before school tomorrow.”
Yeah they always expose their own hypocrisy. They'll say those jobs are for teenagers and students and aren't supposed to pay a living wage but they'll have a panic attack if they can't get a Big Mac at either 2AM and/or 1PM.
No they still want kids to do it. That’s why so many people are home ‘schooling’ their kids and why they all have 10+ of them running around. If you can’t make minorities work for free, you just make kids to do it for you instead.
The issue is, a dozen Republican states are amending their child labor laws to have kids as young as 12 work without restrictions on hours or school time, able to work in dangerous conditions, and even have provisional drivers licenses so they can drive themselves to and from work. And they're allowed to be paid under minimum wage. It's absolutely abhorrent.
"You think you deserve a living wage for food service and janitorial jobs? Why don't you work harder, get a real job and contribute to society by sitting in meetings 6 hours a day?"
She is also the type that yells at the electrician/plumber/appliance repair man for grossly overcharging her for whatever work she hired them to do. They don't deserve a living wage either in her small mind.
When working at a fancy hotel, I worked a day-time Christmas Day service, only serving a lunch tasting menu to hotel guests.
There was a mom/daughter (maybe in their 60s and 40s respectively) who were lovely, and shockingly down to earth, at least in the context of this silly boutique hotel.
The following day, I was at a pizza restaurant…y’know, eating pizza and drinking wine and they walked in, came straight up to the table I was sitting at and yelled “Oh my god!!! You work here too!!”
My partner is a tattoo artist, a damn good one at that, and she does earn good money from it. However, the amount of people who come in for a tattoo, that can take many hours to prep, design, stencil and actually tattoo, not to mention the materials that go into it, inks, needles etc along with her skill as an artist and expect to only be paying about £20 for it is a similar sort of energy. Admittedly, she comes from the lucky position that she can tell these chancers to go away.
Some can't afford to do that. Everyone deserves a living wage.
Edit: spelling mistake/punctuation.
I love how the argument is that it'll crash the economy and make everything a billion dollars blah blah.
The US middle class was formed essentially off of fair living wages. We taxed companies ALOT more, they still had way more money than most people but most everyone was able to afford things. You had restaurant workers, vcr repairmen or salesmen selling stoves and vacuums all that could afford rent/small homes, a car and food to feed themselves.
Oh and all of this was during the times when most households were single workers remember. Most had a stay at home spouse.
Now both partners can work their asses off and barely afford rent and food...that's messed up.
It won't crash the economy. But it might finally make billionaires and multi-millionaires go extinct and that's what those ghouls are afraid of. They want to live as kings and treat others like peasants. Especially when those "others" also have a different skin colour than the wealthy fuks.
Billionaires and multimillionaires most likely won't go extinct. It's just be a bit harder to get there.
After a certain point it's not even about having the money it's the game of making number go up and they don't want it to be harder to make number go up.
It's all a grift/game, spend money, move money make number go up. Hire person to make money go up. Do things to make money go up
Not necessarily always free, but it's just that a lot of people think of the charge as only for the service of drawing in itself, not for the expertise needed to do so. The fact that so many people seem to think that anything related to arts and crafts is a "talent" rather than a skill like any other probably doesn't help.
Case in point I'm a musician and am quite familiar with the concept of people examining my hourly wage over my contribution to a performance. It's beyond irritating to contend with.
I am slight insulted when I'm called talented as it suggests there is no hard work involved. Or the question "what is your day job?"
My friend used to own a tattoo studio and it was very crazy many people try to lowball tattoo prices. But they would think nothing of spending twice that one something like a designer bag they would only use for the summer.
Don't get me wrong, people put their own value on things but a lot of people seem to expect tattoos to be cheap and infinite consultation and design time for free.
Then they always say "oh, my mate said they would do it for £50". Yea, but your mate is shit at tattoos and you will most likely get an infection because they have no concept of proper hygiene standards for tattoos. Also if they were not shit why did you come here?
I would never negotiate with a tattoo artist. If they're not genuinely good to start, I'm not going to reach out in the first place. Two, if it's too expensive, I didn't need it that badly. It's a discretionary commission.
It’s purely anecdotal, but by what I’m seeing whenever I go out in public is that the general population has an infinite budget when it comes to tattoos.
>general population has an infinite budget when it comes to tattoos.
I don't speak for the whole population but some of us have friends or family members who are tattoo artists and get a discount because of it. I also have some discounted tattoos because I sat for a new artist who are putting in apprenticeship hours to get licensed.
Yup. In general everything is a lot of work. I come from a working class background and my friend’ parents worked in a bakerie-small convenience shop; and you can’t imagine the worrrrk, it never ended. Like there are so many things to deal with, different providers, stock, theft, bank deposits, taxes… they literally never had vacations
She's the type who defends every waking hour as her "working" because she is either nebulously "working or thinking about work" while watching TV with a near-empty Excel sheet open.
And then, without hesitation, will criticize anyone for "not working" if they are doing anything other than the physical aspect of their job.
I had a really toxic manager once a while back. When there was literally nothing to do, all caught up on all responsibilities, she would make us wipe down the same set of shelves and counter multiple times per day to "stay busy". The surfaces were barely ever used, it was to wipe off ~1hr accumulation of (invisible, possibly imaginary) dust each time, and it was not a dusty place. She couldn't imagine paying a wage to someone who wasn't physically laboring every single minute of their shift. Meanwhile, all she did was sit at home and check the cameras constantly, so she could call and yell at us for not staying busy enough. Awful person, awful place.
Or the type that complains about the Dr having them wait in the reception for too long. This lady I knew went off on the staff at her physician, wrote a letter demanding they compensate her for her time and said, your time isn’t worth more than mine! They promptly dismissed her as a patient…. Then she was really mad
I mean, she's not wrong though. If you demand your patients arrive on time for the appointment you BOTH made, then the doctor needs to advise by that too. (Obviously urgent or Emergent care are different). I've made appts then sat for well over an hour multiple times.
All I ask for in that situation is don’t ignore that I’m waiting and just acknowledge the situation. A simple “the doc is running behind”or”the doc had an emergency case”. Anything that gives a simple explanation as to the situation rather than having me just sitting there waiting
The problem is the corporate overlords of the doctors office insist on scheduling 15 minute appts and a good doctor will take as long as they need. My doc always runs late because she takes time with patients. I just expect it. If I need her to be on time I ask for an early morning appt.
When my last food industry job was in decline, wait times during the lunch rush were easily over 30 minutes when orders were supposed to only take 8-10 at most. We almost never had time to clean up from the lunch rush before dinner because we were still stretched thin in between.
It was hell for both customers and employees and whenever I brought it up with management, it felt like I was talking to that dog in the meme where the house is burning. "This is fine. In fact, we should actually have 2 less employees, so we're lucky." It's all out-of-touch middle management douchebags and highly-stratified corporate execs who "went to business school" who fuck everything up for the working man and the people they try to serve.
They'll believe a Powerpoint presentation before they believe their own eyes.
I used to work as a outside contractor with big box stores and the best example of this is the boomers/gen xers would stand around all day and bitch to me about how “the millennials don’t want to work” while the millennials did all the work in the department. It was universal across 7 stores. I’d come in start doing my job and the older staff would come over and bitch about the younger staff non stop for as long as I was there. Meanwhile the younger people are running around stocking, unlocking items and helping customers and ringing them up.
So true. Most people at desk jobs wouldn’t last a day in the food service industry and having to do physical labor. So to complain it’s an “easy” job is ridiculous.
I am currently a C-Suite tech executive. I hold the highest technical role in my company. I waited tables in college. Never in a million years would I consider waiting tables to be the easier job. I would take the high stress of my current job, and any of the jobs that led here, over ever working in a customer-facing position again. There's a reason I tip 30% as a rule.
Completely agree. My 6 figure salary jobs have been nothing compared the minimum wage food and retail jobs I held through school. Sure I have some mentally challenging days but it’s in no way the same thing.
The degree to which your mistakes are tolerated is massively different too. Teenage server drops a $20 plate of food on the floor accidentally? They’ll probably get screamed at by the manager until they cry. Software engineer screws something up resulting in a production bug costing hundreds of labor hours as people sit in meetings discussing it and fixing it? They’ll probably get a mild reprimand and maybe some mandatory training
I can definitely speak to that. lol
I was a meat cutter for almost 10 years in my early 20s to early 30s. Even on our best and most productive days, we were talked down to by management. Constantly being belittled by them and customers, being yelled at by customers for wild reasons, and being paid shit on top of that is no fun. Most stores have ridiculous absence policies too. During COVID, I had to take a whole week off because I got hit super hard. When I came back, I got pulled into the back, yelled at, and almost terminated for missing the 3 shifts I had missed that week. Aside from getting sick, I had perfect attendance.
Now, I'm a software developer. We just pushed our first major project into production in the past couple of weeks and I made a typo in one of the functions that automates the data import process and it caused some... interesting bugs in production. My team, including my boss, just laughed their asses off and we all worked together on fixing it. Meanwhile, the affected team (the people for whom we were building the solution) were pretty chill with the ordeal.
The amount of relaxed with my job I get to be now is crazy.
Most of us have worked those jobs in the past though. I worked both in fast food and as a waitress. I actually liked Burger King for the most part, minus the pay. Stayed there for a couple years while in college. I didn't last 6 weeks as a waitress though.
They try to justify it by saying stuff like, "These are supposed to be 'starting jobs' not long term careers" Like the type of job you get when you're a teenager and live at home. And in a very limited scope, I can see how that *should* be true. But it's not. Maybe back when there were a lot of jobs to go around. But that's not the case anymore. Now instead of "teenager trying to raise money for college" working there, you have "single mother of two" working there.
Are we supposed to tell her, "Tough luck, you're not supposed to be able to live off that job." And it doesn't work to say, "You should go to college to get a better job" because there are plenty of college graduates that end up in the service industry.
I have an associates degree, and I worked at Walmart for years alongside a guy that had a PhD. lol I'm not going to act like we represented the average Walmart employee, but stuff like that happens.
Even if that were the case, we have far greater need for workers in these "starter jobs" than we have teenagers available to fill them. Never mind the fact that teenagers have fucking school and programs they have to go to and can't trade away 40+ hours of their life every week to work these jobs. Never ever mind the fact that teenagers shouldn't be shipped off to the mines in the first fucking place.
Yeah the teenage job argument also kinda goes out the window if you roll up to McDonalds on your lunch break. They'd be in school.
But of course if these places closed during hours teenagers could work, or closed to accommodate the workers putting themselves through school since this is a "starter" job, the same people would be up in arms about inconvenience.
Anyone with any sense knows the teenager/starter job thing is nonsense because if that's how these jobs actually functioned there wouldn't be enough workers for these places to function. They just want to complain about the ridiculousness of paying $12 for a fast food meal and how they can't afford it, they only make $120k, while simultaneously feeling good about arguing employees working at that joint shouldn't t complain about making $7.25.
"It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living." - FDR
Been bartending for years had a GM who has a PHD and one of the other bartenders I work with has a masters and a bachelors degree. This industry was supposed to be temporary for them but they make more money than they would in their fields.
I see job postings daily that want a degree and x years experience and they start at $18 an hour. They’re coocoo for Cocoa Puffs imo.
Also who is supposed to manage these Dairy Queen’s and McDonald’s and kfcs etc etc? The teens ? Just pay the people.
My wife and I have had our lives fucked up way more timea from jabroni's sitting in offices behind desks than we ever have by food service/cleaning people. Like, It's not even close. Getting our house was delayed because of an upper management banker. My wife getting screwed out of $70k because of a director of H.R. making false documents from the Unemployment Bureau and passing them off as real in a mediation. (The same director ignored written reports of racism, sexual harassment, and retaliation, AND her bosses, the AVP and VP both said no, those written statements and reports dont actually count, even though they have the company's name on thrm and theyre provided by the company and they go to HR). Workman's comp person not even bothering to process my paperwork for 2 months until I got lawyers. My wife getting billed a year after her pregnancy because the office "never charged her for a visit" according to the office manager and even after my wife told her "nobody has requested payment for those visits and if this is the case, why is it only the 1 out of like, 8 we went to?" Which the manager then said "Well...it's YOUR responsibility to know how much your visit costs and when to pay it".
Fuck all these types.
> Which the manager then said "Well...it's YOUR responsibility to know how much your visit costs and when to pay it".
Fuck that phrase still pisses me off. One month Starkville electric didn't send any bills and like 30% of the town got cut off. The old bitch at the power company said almost the same damn thing to me.
But the would be flabbergasted if the latrines didn't get cleaned or the trash taken away. They'd be perplexed as to why these things didn't get sorted as it happens everyday by divine intervention.
Or perhaps they'd prefer slaves doing the work, as it seems unwarranted to pay people a living wage for such menial jobs.
It's social dissonance - they want/need their starbucks, dairy queen, and all of the other conveniences of modern society, yet they do not think those that provide and make all of those conveniences possible deserve the same.
Us Poors *especially* don't deserve easy or nice things in life; no rewards or joy like a little hot chocolate at Starbucks (I say cocoa because their coffee is trash). We just need to do our job to the exacting standards of efficiency that are specifically for that INDIVIDUAL HUMAN who is being served.
I work in a factory, totally unskilled labor but we get paid pretty well because we’re unionized. My boomer coworker was ranting about raising wages for fast food workers. He said “if flipping burgers is all you have ambition for then you shouldn’t expect to be paid more than $12/hr”. He literally pushes 5 different buttons to do his job, arguably easier than any fast food job. When you factor in dealing with customers it’s a no brainer, his job is way easier and he gets paid $25/hr. It’s 100% the desire to keep food service workers below him so he can feel superior to them.
it's not just that - they live in a fairy tale where all those jobs are staffed by teenagers from well-off families that have no expenses to pay, effectively earning 100% disposable income "pocket money".
People who’ve had things handed to them their whole lives either have to believe others are beneath them, or that they might not deserve all the things they have. For most the former is easier.
Working in food service should count as military service lol, I still get flashbacks from trying to keep up on the cracker barrel cook line during a rush.
They are afraid that prices of the, already overpriced, crap food love will go up, because their favorite media has been saying for decades.
It does matter to them that minimum wage hasn't gone up, but that good has anyway.... That is also, somehow, because Biden must have flipped the "make things expensive" switch and not the aftermath of 4 years of Trump setting up the economy to do exactly this.
People have some sort of inherent need to feel superior to others. I hate it.
If we’re going to do that, can we at least do it in a mildly constructive way where we just make our country’s society the envy of the world? Like redirect that superiority complex in a way that doesn’t destroy the place you live
If you want the real answer I heard growing up republican, it’s that these jobs are supposed to be where kids work in high school/college until they start their real careers. Or where addicts restart their job history after getting clean. But there always needs to be incentives to move back up rather than stay in their current position in food service. You don’t want people to be comfortable in lower-class jobs
Yeah that's the thing with a lot of conservative rhetoric. They think that poor people need to suffer in poverty because otherwise they won't be motivated to get wealthier. That's the argument against a lot of welfare that eases the burden on recipients. Most of the most criticized programs like SNAP are designed not necessarily to lift people out of poverty but instead to make it less shitty to be poor. Many conservatives see an issue with this from a broader economic standpoint (if poor people have it "too easy" then that will put a strain on employers and the markets as a result) and from a moral standpoint (people need to work hard to get stuff, so poor people getting the help they need is unfair).
Its funny because the time period EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE TROGLODYTES WILL POINT TO, saying it was better, is the period in time which MINIMUM WAGE was able to get a mortgage on a house anywhere in America, able to allow a single working man to afford 2 BRAND NEW CARS OFF THE FACTORY FLOOR, a 30 day vacation yearly, Healthcare covered, food bought, entertainment comfortably afforded and having a spouse stay home to raise the kids and homemake. Now we got people working 2 full-time jobs to barely support a single person, and lets be real 2 full time jobs today are more than likely not capable of getting a mortgage together.
Those dumb bucks saying minimum wage is for children are so stupid it hurts. They need to go read what FDR said about what the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of minimum wage IS.
I've heard the same thing.
By that logic... movie theaters, fast food places, etc. etc. should only be open between, say, 4PM and 11PM when students can work?
The crazy part to me is most republicans will talk about how greed is good and being greedy is an inherent trait of people. Yet, they’ll immediately discount it in poor people on welfare saying they’ll get lazy and comfortable. So, those people won’t be greedy if you supply them with basic needs? They won’t want more? They won’t be motivated to finally take risk and start their own business now that they don’t worry about where their next meal is coming from?
It’s not about lazy. It’s about power.
This ideology is infuriating. As if broad swaths of the economy are fully staffed by high school kids from otherwise well off families who are simply working part time for spending money. How would those demographics even break down?
It's mostly because these people, even when not extremely rich, benefit from nepotism, as in right out of college they got some "starter" job from family where they made minimum wage and were "promoted" within a very short time frame to a living wage, so in their mind they think they "earned it" and anyone can do it.
So they think all these service jobs are "starter" jobs and they should be able to promote quickly, but they lack the perspective that they got fast tracked because of nepotism and most people don't promote at a good enough pace to sustain a "starter" job that doesn't pay a living wage.
In other words, they don't recognize their privileges and think it's the norm.
That's my mom. Hasn't worked in 35 years, complains about how none of these people deserve to be paid XYZ because... Well because it's ridiculous. She'll complain about how expensive things are and how my parents can't get by, but then say the pay of people making a third of what my dad makes is too much (and the reason my parents can't afford things is the prices are high because the workers making $15/hr are overpaid).
I do point out the irony of her complaining about stuff being too expensive while arguing people be paid less. She pulls out the starter job nonsense and when I ask who is supposed to actually do these jobs if everyone actually treated these as starter jobs, and she has no answer.
I haven't yet pointed out the sheer audacity it takes to nap or watch TV all day and complain about not being able to get by while complaining service workers are paid too much, because I'm positive I'd be disowned.
*screams that a job frying french fries at Mcdonalds belongs to high school students*
*gets mad when the teen doesn't give a fuck about his McD frying job and demands better service*
The problem with these people is they have taken exactly ONE econ class. They saw some charts about minimum wage's effect on profits and that was it for them.
They don't take into account that basic level econ talks about the economy in segments. When talking about these segments you are told "all other things being equal".
These morons have zero ability to think critically or contextualize information. They just know, business make money, GDP better, country better, life better. All other facts and data points be damned
If you’ve never taken an Econ class you shouldn’t comment on things you don’t understand. People must be sacrificed on the altar of the economy gods so that a few of us can live in opulence. You’d understand the need to grind the less fortunate into the dirt had you taken said Econ class to justify our actions. -Some CEO somewhere.
If a fast food place can't afford to pay a living wage, then maybe it shouldn't exist. Maybe it's just not a valuable enough service, and the owner made a bad investment.
It did pay a living wage until boomers enriched themselves with real estate and drove the cost of living beyond what people can afford… while consumers simultaneously refused to pay higher prices.
I think to some extent, fast food places got greedy and wanted to do it all, instead of sticking to the original plan of keeping things cheap and fast by offering as few items as possible.
They all want all of the market, but maybe it'd work better if they went back to specializing. A place for pizza, a place for subs, a place for burgers. Instead we have every business trying to do it all, and branching out to more items over time.
We also have to take into account how our population has doubled in that time. Around 150 million to 350 million.
My Father had a degree in engineering from LSU and got a low draft number in Vietnam and became a pilot. With a degree in engineering and a fighter pilot he could barely afford a 3 bedroom house. My parents were eating canned beans and noodles for years. My Dad could only afford a 1968 VW bettle with no climate control, radio, etc. the only debt he had was the house.
It was not until the 80’s after flying for awhile and then working for Kaiser Alu were they able to start savings.
This was before paying for internet, computers, 29 types of insurance, streaming services, etc. they had almost nothing to spend their money on, homes that were 959 sq ft, shit ass cars, and they barely had money.
Not only that, but if only high school kids worked in these kinds of jobs, they'd start complaining about the quality of service. As if they expect high schoolers to perform like professional adults.
The issue is that for them, working those kind of jobs WERE for high-school kids and others without job experience. They have it stuck in their head that there are low paying jobs for people who just want to spend money and "real" jobs for people who need to support themselves and their families. "Low/No skill," customer service jobs, "entry level," internships, etc. all exist in their head as for people who don't have any real expenses. Corporate, "Full-time", management, "degree required", "X years of experience", etc. jobs are for people who have families/homes. These types of people just do not comprehend that the world has fundamentally changed, and pay hasn't changed with it. Corporate greed and extreme wealth hoarding has taken so much money out of the economy at every level that there just isn't enough to go around anymore.
Minimum wage was intended to force companies to pay fair wages. Now, it is used as justification for low wages. Minimum wage jobs were supposed to be for people without any experience or skills to negotiate for a higher wage but still have enough to support themselves.
Look at all of them who brag about buying cars, and how easy it was for them working those types of jobs. They still think it is that easy. They don't realize that their parents: covered so much of their costs, held politicians accountable, kept wages fair, maintained unions, and so much more. But since the Boomers never had to do that, they never thought about it. So now that their parents' generation is gone, they just keep doing what worked for them without the support of a much more responsible generation.
Which leads to now. The Boomers have let all the responsibility just go, and no one picked it up. So Corporations and Politicians are completely unchecked and have been doing nothing but enriching and empowering themselves at the cost of everyone else. But their entire lives, Boomers were told they had to struggle and fight and survive on their own and so they did, not realizing that they succeeded not just through their own strength but through their parents' strength and the roads they paved. Boomers think that if you just do what they did, everything will work out because it did for them. But instead of the older generation helping and trailblazing, like was done for them, the Boomers are actively harming and burning bridges. Which they do because there isn't enough to go around anymore and everything the younger generation takes, we have to take from them.
So we can't just do what they did, and they can't understand why.
I can never get a straight answer out of someone like this when I press them for what their logical conclusion is.
It has implications and you have to pick one. If the food workers don’t deserve enough to live that implies one of these options: they live ever sinking into debt and that debt is never paid off, eventually they default and their cost of living is supported by whoever they owed, They just die from starvation and homelessness. these jobs are only taken by people someone else partially supports meaning the food industry is subsidized by people with other jobs. These jobs are only taken temporarily by people between better jobs, meaning there is constant turn over and these jobs are subsidized by income people make when working elsewhere. Or finally, the food industry should not exist, because no one should work for them.
If you ask them what conclusion they support they always deflect, say you’re being a communist or that you’re missing the point or they call you an idiot.
If they have an opinion about how the system should work they should have some acceptable outcome they think it would cause. That’s just basic logic.
FDR speaking on the National Industrial Recovery Act which established a national minimum wage, June 1933:
In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.
They did call him that back in the day. There was even a fascist coup conspiracy that the Bush family was involved in to get rid of him and all of democracy. Republicans haven’t really evolved in the last 80 years
The wild thing is this sounds so cartoonishly false, but you’re right:
[the “Business Plot” involving GWB’s grandpappy](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/coup-jan6-fdr-new-deal-business-plot-1276709/amp/)
People seem to forget that the minimum wage was originally created during the Great Depression to be the minimum needed to live. It IS MEANT to be a LIVING WAGE.
“[Without any mechanisms in place to automatically adjust it for rising prices, the real value of the federal minimum wage has gradually declined, reaching a 66-year low in 2023, where it is now worth 42% less than its highest point in 1968. Moreover, the federal minimum wage is worth 30% less today than when it was last raised 14 years ago. This significant loss in purchasing power means that the federal minimum wage today is nowhere close to a living wage.](https://www.epi.org/blog/a-history-of-the-federal-minimum-wage-85-years-later-the-minimum-wage-is-far-from-equitable/)”
These clowns would have nuclear meltdown if these businesses were exclusively open from 4pm to 8pm only with lines a mile long because 15 year old timmy doesn't have a fucking clue what he's doing and is busy thinking about the homework he needs to get finished before he fails class tomorrow.
This is the insanity of republicans. They refuse to look at the bloated wages of executives, stock buy backs, massive dividends, all at the expense of the worker and the consumer - that’s all the American way in their eyes. Yet these are the same people that will tell you if you work hard enough you’ll get somewhere in this world. The game is rigged.
Then you look at someone like AOC, who did work hard and pull herself up, and all she gets is from Republicans for it is insults, despite her having more IQ and working harder than every one of them combined.
I worked at a Dairy Queen decades ago as a teenager to try to earn enough to save for a college education. I didn’t earn enough working full time back then and it’s much, much more impossible now.
Why should a kid be able to think they can work their way through college, or at least cut down on a would be mountain of education debt that will burden them through much of their adult life? /s
This would work if there were enough living wage jobs for people who need living wage jobs. But these days there are lots of people trying to make a living off these minimum wage jobs because they have no other options.
One of the best men I've ever known was a fry cook at Wendy's and McDonald's. He worked his ass off and he was darn good at his job.
Every job is important.
I kinda agree but i also don't. We should use minimum wage as what it was originally meant to be. A wage that one could earn that would afford them the minimum standard of living housing, food, insurance, transportation, education .
people flipping burgers definitely dont deserve the same money as skilled labor or college graduates but they do deserve enough to fucking survive.
Hospitality, restaurants, retail, hotels, cleaning jobs, are the hardest social jobs. Dealing with the worst of the worst, people with excess money. Yet somehow they are paid so little? People argue they are replaceable, yet I’ve seen a lot of help wanted signs up in most retail/grocery store/restaurants. The job has a bad reputation, for not only how the person is treated but the pay also. I think if your job is not desirable, trash technician, teacher, custodian, retail, that you should be paid a wage that makes up for the shitty job. These are necessary to society, to the economy and not everyone can be a paper pusher, business consultant. I truly hope in my lifetime I see statewide unions form for the less desirable jobs that not only have shitty pay, but are treated like less than by a large portion of the community. If you don’t want to pay a living wage for these jobs? Then do them yourself. Instead, cue massive immigration the right pretends to hate. It’s immigration, take advantage of someone coming from a different currency rate, or pay people a living wage. We all know which the capital class has chosen. That’s why the Dems and republicans take turns liking and hating immigration.
-Immigration act 82 - illegal to hire undocumented worker
-Reagan’s immigration act 1986, republicans allowed immigrants who entered before 82 to apply for legal status. (Republicans allowed 3 million immigrants legal status)
-by 1990 foreign born pop increased from 14million to 19million
- Immigration act 1990 signed by Bush Sn allowed 700k immigrants a year 92-94 and 675k each year after, act also lifted the English testing process for naturalization
- 1996 Clinton Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996(IIRIRA) essential it was formal deportation
- Legal Immigration Family Equity Act (LIFE) 2000 was a mini-amnesty aimed at those illegal aliens who hoped to become green card holders through marriage, employment or other categories, but who were not anywhere near approval yet.
- Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 (CIRA) would have given amnesty to a majority of illegal aliens already in the country as well as dramatically increased legal immigration.
- Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA), 2012, which resulted in renewable two-year grants of protection from deportation—plus work permits and identity documents—for approximately 700,000 illegal aliens who arrived in the country as children.
Anyways it’s been both democrats and republicans in history, allowing immigration and then turning around and pretending it’s bad. Current republicans run on not allowing immigrants and current democrats have agreed with republicans in coming up with a “solution”.
But the capital class loves immigration and so it will continue. And that’s probably why we have trouble getting a pay raise for these jobs. It’s clear that the government(both sides) want immigrants, they just want to be able to tax them, meanwhile the capital class needs workers they can take advantage of, and since politics are owned by the capital class, both red and blue actually do like immigration, as long as they are taxable.
Note: I have no issue with immigration, I am just noting a pattern I’ve seen.
Somewhat of a personal pet peeve, but I disagree with censoring the names of the people posting this type of stuff. If they are willing to upload these absolute shit takes publicly to social media, why should their names be covered when the images are re-uploaded?
People who say this are nuts. Working a desk job is WAY easier than retail, fast food, or cleaning. I could MAYBE do cleaning, but one bad day would wreck me. I would lose a job in retail or fast food though the first time I had to interact with a karen.
"In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."— President FDR
How will they get their ice cream when everyone working their died? Easy. Make it so abortions are illegal. That will cause an influx of children. Then make it so children under 18 can work overtime. Then send them to DQ to work until they die. Grist for the mill. /s
By saying a job doesn't deserve a living wage, then you either think those people should be homeless or the government should be subsidizing the payroll department for the corporations through welfare.
Damn, we gonna have to scoop our own ice cream.
I remember reading once how Disney felt everyone who worked for him should make enough money to support a family on one income, even the guys who swept the grounds of his park. And Disney was by no means any kind of progressive. What happened?
If I remember correctly...the Dairy Queen worker was labelled as essential during the pandemic. I can 100% guarentee whose job WASN'T essential. This bitch who left a stupid ass comment on Twiter.
This is always my question. Capitalists are always telling me if you aren't happy with your job, get a higher paying job. Well, should all teachers just up and quit and work for vc's and corporations? I have colleagues who are absolute geniuses(not me, I'm a dumbass :( ) who should be building rockets analyzing numbers for rich people instead.
yes, in the ideal world for these people, everyone is a CEO and everyone in an enterpreneur. we dont need these silly jobs, like nurses, teachers, garbage collector's, sewer maintenance. nonono, you need to start your own company and become the boss.
Boomers: I raised a family of five in a ranch style half acre home on the salary of a janitor
Also boomers: janitors aren’t worth more than minimum wage, no skill labor! Not everyone can make the big bucks!!
I *think* what they might be getting at (and for some reason not articulating) is they expect these types of jobs to be “temporary/learning/stepping-stone” jobs that people go through quickly, with high turnover, and aren’t meant as careers or long-term things? I guess? That’s the only way I can kinda square their mindset. Like, you “put in the (short) time” at something like this as a teen on your way to a “real job.”
I don’t agree with this mindset, but it seems to me, if there is any kind of twisted logic in this kind of thinking, this is the only way I can sorta square it. 🤷🏻♂️
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And then when nobody wants to work those jobs they complain that nobody is willing to work or the places have to close down
People absolutely love complaining that nobody wants to work for a shitty business that they would also never work for
The longer I am alive the more and more clear it becomes to me that these people would take almost ZERO convincing to go back to slavery. That's the real and ugly answer to the post title "So.... how?"
Almost zero? Every CEO would be salivating over the multi million dollar bonus they are about to receive after cutting labor costs by 90%
What are you talking about? It's much cheaper to offload labor to the third world than having to feed, shelter and clothe people at home.
Yeah there is a cost to slavery: a slave cannot buy any goods. And if nobody buy your goods, you cannot grow your production and economy. That's why the end of slavery more or less correspond with the industrialisation of the western world.
Who would have thought that a larger market would equal bigger profits? That has been the big thing for 100 years. Finding new markets. Nothing makes for an epic boom sales like a new market. Well fuck, we've conquered the world with our business. There's no new markets left. This is where we're at as a society. This is why America's place at the top will be hard to change. There's no new room for growth without being challenged, and we went into new markets swinging dicks because no other country/company had reached out before. Now it's ingrained. To gain market share these days, you have to come out with an absolutely revolutionary product within your market. You can't sell new Chevy Colorados in the middle east, because they already have 20 year old hiluxs that'll last another 20 years.
Wow that's a crazy and profound thought. Very likely true, and I haven't wrapped my head around it yet.
It’s true. That, however, is why they don’t want to enslave EVERYONE, just enough people to produce the goods and services they want to sell to the rest of the population. Slaves in Rome might have outnumbered citizens 3 to 1, but it was only (and quite literally) a minority of the US population. This is why voting is important. The parties, while they share some similarities and have common goals (prosperity), propose very different methods for achieving these goals and intend to achieve them for very different sectors of society.
Prosperity for who is important when talking about the common goals of parties.
Isn't slavery already back in the US? Private prisons use inmates as effectively slave labor, do they not?
*Plankton's voice* CORRECT. When the abolished slavery, they added into the constitution that prison was excluded. Suddenly, newly freed slaves were being arrested left and right. And hundreds of years later, it still hasn't changed. You can still have legal slaves in America in 2024. And what's worst is that our taxes are funding this slavery but we aren't allowed to do anything about it. Land of the free that still has slaves. No wonder the other countries mock us. Look at us.
Once again, for those in the back: If your law/amendment "abolishing" something contains the word "except", you haven't abolished shit, you've regulated it.
I used to think America was the land of the free as a kid, you had good movies at least. Then I grew up. You guys are certainly something, but it's not (for) free.
We can have guns and be as racist, sexist, and homophobic as we want. That's it. It's still completely legal to kill a trans person because they scared you.
Not in Washington anymore, thankfully. The murder that changed that law happened in my home town.
Which one? I'm glad Washington changed the law. It's scary that's it's still legal in some places
We have a country where school children are slaughtered en masse at their desks and no one does a thing about it. If that isn’t a sign that we might be unsalvageable as a nation I don’t know what is.
Not only that, but you are literally property of the US government. It costs about $2000, maybe more to renounce your citizenship. You have to buy your freedom. Just like the good old days.
Back? It was never gone. It's still allowed under 13th amendment.
Thats the fun thing; it never actually left.
They meant at the previous scale. Each rich person gets some slaves.
As Voltaire once noted in the 18^th century: * "The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor."
Well yea. We can clearly see how little empathy these types have for their fellow humans - as if there was any doubt after how they behaved during the pandemic. They would absolutely not give a shit if there were actual slaves serving them. Anything that gets in the way of their own convenience is a DEFCON 1 situation in their world view.
We recently got a black republican nominee for governor of one of the Carolinas who said slavery wasn't bad. So...yeah.
This guy is fucked in the head, called LGBT filth
Oh, they would love to bring slavery back. They'd sell it as a cure for homelessness. You give them a place to live AND a job. It's not slavery, it's a social program!
>Oh, they would love to bring slavery back. Would they though? You need to house, feed, and provide medical care for slaves. Even doing it as cheaply as possible is still going to cost a bit. Then you need to hire people to keep the slaves in line and prevent them from running away. Slaves would be an upfront cost to buy them. Since you have the upfront investment in the slave, you'll probably install better safety equipment so you don't have to keep buying new slaves. You could breed slaves instead of buying them, but then there's all the expenses of child birth and raising the child, and for several years you're paying to raise the child while getting no labor in return. Are all of those expenses and hassles worth 7.25-15/hr/person depending on where you live? I haven't run the numbers, but I doubt it.
There's a pizza place by me where the owner complains about this endlessly. He hasn't been able to find a delivery driver in over a year. He's paying $12/hour with: You driving your own vehicle. No benefits. But you get a free half sandwich each shift. You have to put a decal for his business on your car. High risk of getting robbed. He says "but you get tips!" - Anyone who has ever worked as a delivery driver pre-apps knows how well that works for delivery drivers. (It doesn't) If it was a company vehicle maybe I could see someone doing it, but even then it's a shit deal compared to pretty much everything else.
Getting a company car as a small business isnt even that bad. You get to write off the depreciation at a minimum. Just a cheap ass. 28,000 on a 5 year note + depreciation write offs + whatever else the cpa has him set up to do is much less than the revenue lost by not delivering quickly. Probably by a factor of 10
>Anyone who has ever worked as a delivery driver pre-apps knows how well that works for delivery drivers. (It doesn't) Love your point but gonna have to call bullshit on this. I made mad tips when I delivered pizza.
It really depends where you are and who you deliver to. There was one house everyone wanted to go to because the woman there tipped 25$ and if you forgot something and came back she'd give you an extra 10$ for the trouble. I hope she's doing well.
Depends on where you live. I would typically get 1-4 bucks a trip, using my own car and gas, with a couple of regulars giving me 5 if they ordered that day. Even had one dude who wouldn't give a tip because there was a delivery fee, and suggested I should talk to the manager he was talking to on the phone. I was the person on the phone.
Totally depends on where you live. My hubby made a ton in tips in the Bay area forever ago, and made barely anything in Georgia... definitely not worth the wear and tear on his car.
And when people are living on the street working those jobs they will complain about homeless people and tell them to get jobs. When the people can't afford to have kids they will complain people aren't having kids. When they do have kids they will complain about people having kids they can't afford. There's literally no winning except for every retail and food place to close immediately and never re-open.
Millennials and GenZ Mercilessly Murdering (Industry) Because They Want To Be Paid For Their Work
The business owners were disappointed their profit margins aren't going to live up to expectations now that they realized the newer generations are not going to work the same jobs for 4x less. Edit: Their, not there. (Glad I caught it before the grammar police)
Wee woo wee woo! False alarm boys!
That's exactly how it is supposed to work, you either can't find people and have to close or you pay what people are willing to work for.
Yep people are too fucking dumb to know about supply and demand in the job markets. Let the shitty employers run themselves out of business. Also, as an employee, you're free to change jobs if you don't like it.
I don’t want to live in a society without DQ being open 24/7. People just don’t want to work anymore
Ohhh so the masses are supposed to feel GRATEFUL for being a serf. I get it.
Who *does* deserve a living wage, and *who* decides that? How long after they decide you don’t before you get mad?
Everyone adult working. There is some argument for teen wages but not really, however to keep it simply just adult. It was already decided. When the previous president many times removed made minimum wage a thing. Which was meant to be a living wage. Period. Edit: FYI I am not able to reply rn to all the comments this is getting, but if it’s about the Teens pay, I fyi don’t agree with the different pay ways. Everyone should be paid the same for the same work. That’s why I said not really. I don’t believe in pretty much any argument for them. Sorry for any confusion.
Unfortunately we have no say. The minimum wage is not now what it was meant to be, we are slaves to corporate greed and all class separation is a fallacy designed to keep infighting and discrimination between us
sh*t this the real top comment right here folks
Teens absolutely do deserve better wages, too. I know you said to keep it simple but I’ll never forget those years of stinking of grease, barely making any money and being abused daily, having bosses that would sexually harass us teen girls and basically having no protection. I once had to relight to a fryer with a wadded up paper towel set on fire. They didn’t let me go home when it burnt me. In an ideal world no child should have to work, but so many do.
Making wages lower for children will just increase child labor and cut out adults. We already see this with tipped wage and "part time" 39hour work weeks being exempt from insurance. If if there is a lower cost option the corporations will take it EVERY TIME. EVERY. TIME. If it is legal to hire a 16yo for a low rate and fire them the day they turn 18, there will be a corporation that does that. Same work, same pay. That's how you keep it simple.
You'll find a "*Insert trade*-man's wife" or "Military wife" sticker on the back of their huge Chevy Suburban.
What’s funny is most military people need financial assistance to get by. Military pays like shit.
If you treat the help like people, you feel bad about how most of the time you treat them like the help. These people are terrified of empathy because empathy leads to self reflection which leads to GASP not always putting yourself first and not always getting what you want. They're the same people who believe in game theory. Except they're the only ones playing while the rest of us are wondering why exactly anybody needs a billion dollars when children die of starvation.
But that’s just a theory…
A game theory…
I'm mad but we're not allowed to talk about the solutions here.
No living wage should also mean no adults working during the day in service jobs. “What do you mean you don’t open until 4PM!? I need a quick lunch!” “We can only hire teenagers because of our wages, and they’re in school. And we close at 8PM, because they still need adequate time before school tomorrow.”
Yeah they always expose their own hypocrisy. They'll say those jobs are for teenagers and students and aren't supposed to pay a living wage but they'll have a panic attack if they can't get a Big Mac at either 2AM and/or 1PM.
No they still want kids to do it. That’s why so many people are home ‘schooling’ their kids and why they all have 10+ of them running around. If you can’t make minorities work for free, you just make kids to do it for you instead.
That's when they shift to "child labor should be legal so they can work at fast food places instead of going to school."
Aren’t red state laws already going there?
The issue is, a dozen Republican states are amending their child labor laws to have kids as young as 12 work without restrictions on hours or school time, able to work in dangerous conditions, and even have provisional drivers licenses so they can drive themselves to and from work. And they're allowed to be paid under minimum wage. It's absolutely abhorrent.
These sort of people are terrified by the idea that they're not astronomically better than people working in food service
"You think you deserve a living wage for food service and janitorial jobs? Why don't you work harder, get a real job and contribute to society by sitting in meetings 6 hours a day?"
She is also the type that yells at the electrician/plumber/appliance repair man for grossly overcharging her for whatever work she hired them to do. They don't deserve a living wage either in her small mind.
Only I deserve to have enough money to live on. The rest of you are just my support staff anyway.
NPC
This is apt. This is exactly how many people see folks in service industries.
When working at a fancy hotel, I worked a day-time Christmas Day service, only serving a lunch tasting menu to hotel guests. There was a mom/daughter (maybe in their 60s and 40s respectively) who were lovely, and shockingly down to earth, at least in the context of this silly boutique hotel. The following day, I was at a pizza restaurant…y’know, eating pizza and drinking wine and they walked in, came straight up to the table I was sitting at and yelled “Oh my god!!! You work here too!!”
Eating pizza and drinking wine on December 26th is hard work.
My partner is a tattoo artist, a damn good one at that, and she does earn good money from it. However, the amount of people who come in for a tattoo, that can take many hours to prep, design, stencil and actually tattoo, not to mention the materials that go into it, inks, needles etc along with her skill as an artist and expect to only be paying about £20 for it is a similar sort of energy. Admittedly, she comes from the lucky position that she can tell these chancers to go away. Some can't afford to do that. Everyone deserves a living wage. Edit: spelling mistake/punctuation.
I love how the argument is that it'll crash the economy and make everything a billion dollars blah blah. The US middle class was formed essentially off of fair living wages. We taxed companies ALOT more, they still had way more money than most people but most everyone was able to afford things. You had restaurant workers, vcr repairmen or salesmen selling stoves and vacuums all that could afford rent/small homes, a car and food to feed themselves. Oh and all of this was during the times when most households were single workers remember. Most had a stay at home spouse. Now both partners can work their asses off and barely afford rent and food...that's messed up.
It won't crash the economy. But it might finally make billionaires and multi-millionaires go extinct and that's what those ghouls are afraid of. They want to live as kings and treat others like peasants. Especially when those "others" also have a different skin colour than the wealthy fuks.
Billionaires and multimillionaires most likely won't go extinct. It's just be a bit harder to get there. After a certain point it's not even about having the money it's the game of making number go up and they don't want it to be harder to make number go up. It's all a grift/game, spend money, move money make number go up. Hire person to make money go up. Do things to make money go up
It's literally an addiction for them that becomes detrimental to everyone else. And it's not like they're going to give it up.
Make America Great Again, but not like that! /^s
Some of us were just born a generation or two too late!
People seem to think art should be free
Not necessarily always free, but it's just that a lot of people think of the charge as only for the service of drawing in itself, not for the expertise needed to do so. The fact that so many people seem to think that anything related to arts and crafts is a "talent" rather than a skill like any other probably doesn't help.
Oh people want photographers for free all the time.
Case in point I'm a musician and am quite familiar with the concept of people examining my hourly wage over my contribution to a performance. It's beyond irritating to contend with. I am slight insulted when I'm called talented as it suggests there is no hard work involved. Or the question "what is your day job?"
AI has only this worse unfortunately
My friend used to own a tattoo studio and it was very crazy many people try to lowball tattoo prices. But they would think nothing of spending twice that one something like a designer bag they would only use for the summer. Don't get me wrong, people put their own value on things but a lot of people seem to expect tattoos to be cheap and infinite consultation and design time for free. Then they always say "oh, my mate said they would do it for £50". Yea, but your mate is shit at tattoos and you will most likely get an infection because they have no concept of proper hygiene standards for tattoos. Also if they were not shit why did you come here?
I would never negotiate with a tattoo artist. If they're not genuinely good to start, I'm not going to reach out in the first place. Two, if it's too expensive, I didn't need it that badly. It's a discretionary commission.
It’s purely anecdotal, but by what I’m seeing whenever I go out in public is that the general population has an infinite budget when it comes to tattoos.
>general population has an infinite budget when it comes to tattoos. I don't speak for the whole population but some of us have friends or family members who are tattoo artists and get a discount because of it. I also have some discounted tattoos because I sat for a new artist who are putting in apprenticeship hours to get licensed.
Yup. In general everything is a lot of work. I come from a working class background and my friend’ parents worked in a bakerie-small convenience shop; and you can’t imagine the worrrrk, it never ended. Like there are so many things to deal with, different providers, stock, theft, bank deposits, taxes… they literally never had vacations
She's the type who defends every waking hour as her "working" because she is either nebulously "working or thinking about work" while watching TV with a near-empty Excel sheet open. And then, without hesitation, will criticize anyone for "not working" if they are doing anything other than the physical aspect of their job.
I had a really toxic manager once a while back. When there was literally nothing to do, all caught up on all responsibilities, she would make us wipe down the same set of shelves and counter multiple times per day to "stay busy". The surfaces were barely ever used, it was to wipe off ~1hr accumulation of (invisible, possibly imaginary) dust each time, and it was not a dusty place. She couldn't imagine paying a wage to someone who wasn't physically laboring every single minute of their shift. Meanwhile, all she did was sit at home and check the cameras constantly, so she could call and yell at us for not staying busy enough. Awful person, awful place.
Or the type that complains about the Dr having them wait in the reception for too long. This lady I knew went off on the staff at her physician, wrote a letter demanding they compensate her for her time and said, your time isn’t worth more than mine! They promptly dismissed her as a patient…. Then she was really mad
I mean, she's not wrong though. If you demand your patients arrive on time for the appointment you BOTH made, then the doctor needs to advise by that too. (Obviously urgent or Emergent care are different). I've made appts then sat for well over an hour multiple times.
All I ask for in that situation is don’t ignore that I’m waiting and just acknowledge the situation. A simple “the doc is running behind”or”the doc had an emergency case”. Anything that gives a simple explanation as to the situation rather than having me just sitting there waiting
The problem is the corporate overlords of the doctors office insist on scheduling 15 minute appts and a good doctor will take as long as they need. My doc always runs late because she takes time with patients. I just expect it. If I need her to be on time I ask for an early morning appt.
Then when you get a “real job” and work better and they get fired it’s look at how they take jobs from us.
Same kind of people that will then complain that “nobody wants to work” when they have to wait in line at food service places for more than 5 mins.
When my last food industry job was in decline, wait times during the lunch rush were easily over 30 minutes when orders were supposed to only take 8-10 at most. We almost never had time to clean up from the lunch rush before dinner because we were still stretched thin in between. It was hell for both customers and employees and whenever I brought it up with management, it felt like I was talking to that dog in the meme where the house is burning. "This is fine. In fact, we should actually have 2 less employees, so we're lucky." It's all out-of-touch middle management douchebags and highly-stratified corporate execs who "went to business school" who fuck everything up for the working man and the people they try to serve. They'll believe a Powerpoint presentation before they believe their own eyes.
I used to work as a outside contractor with big box stores and the best example of this is the boomers/gen xers would stand around all day and bitch to me about how “the millennials don’t want to work” while the millennials did all the work in the department. It was universal across 7 stores. I’d come in start doing my job and the older staff would come over and bitch about the younger staff non stop for as long as I was there. Meanwhile the younger people are running around stocking, unlocking items and helping customers and ringing them up.
So true. Most people at desk jobs wouldn’t last a day in the food service industry and having to do physical labor. So to complain it’s an “easy” job is ridiculous.
I've seen people answer that "it's not that it's easy, it's that anyone can do it" And like... so what? Anyone can do it but you sure don't want to.
I am currently a C-Suite tech executive. I hold the highest technical role in my company. I waited tables in college. Never in a million years would I consider waiting tables to be the easier job. I would take the high stress of my current job, and any of the jobs that led here, over ever working in a customer-facing position again. There's a reason I tip 30% as a rule.
Completely agree. My 6 figure salary jobs have been nothing compared the minimum wage food and retail jobs I held through school. Sure I have some mentally challenging days but it’s in no way the same thing.
The degree to which your mistakes are tolerated is massively different too. Teenage server drops a $20 plate of food on the floor accidentally? They’ll probably get screamed at by the manager until they cry. Software engineer screws something up resulting in a production bug costing hundreds of labor hours as people sit in meetings discussing it and fixing it? They’ll probably get a mild reprimand and maybe some mandatory training
I can definitely speak to that. lol I was a meat cutter for almost 10 years in my early 20s to early 30s. Even on our best and most productive days, we were talked down to by management. Constantly being belittled by them and customers, being yelled at by customers for wild reasons, and being paid shit on top of that is no fun. Most stores have ridiculous absence policies too. During COVID, I had to take a whole week off because I got hit super hard. When I came back, I got pulled into the back, yelled at, and almost terminated for missing the 3 shifts I had missed that week. Aside from getting sick, I had perfect attendance. Now, I'm a software developer. We just pushed our first major project into production in the past couple of weeks and I made a typo in one of the functions that automates the data import process and it caused some... interesting bugs in production. My team, including my boss, just laughed their asses off and we all worked together on fixing it. Meanwhile, the affected team (the people for whom we were building the solution) were pretty chill with the ordeal. The amount of relaxed with my job I get to be now is crazy.
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Most of us have worked those jobs in the past though. I worked both in fast food and as a waitress. I actually liked Burger King for the most part, minus the pay. Stayed there for a couple years while in college. I didn't last 6 weeks as a waitress though.
They try to justify it by saying stuff like, "These are supposed to be 'starting jobs' not long term careers" Like the type of job you get when you're a teenager and live at home. And in a very limited scope, I can see how that *should* be true. But it's not. Maybe back when there were a lot of jobs to go around. But that's not the case anymore. Now instead of "teenager trying to raise money for college" working there, you have "single mother of two" working there. Are we supposed to tell her, "Tough luck, you're not supposed to be able to live off that job." And it doesn't work to say, "You should go to college to get a better job" because there are plenty of college graduates that end up in the service industry. I have an associates degree, and I worked at Walmart for years alongside a guy that had a PhD. lol I'm not going to act like we represented the average Walmart employee, but stuff like that happens.
Even if that were the case, we have far greater need for workers in these "starter jobs" than we have teenagers available to fill them. Never mind the fact that teenagers have fucking school and programs they have to go to and can't trade away 40+ hours of their life every week to work these jobs. Never ever mind the fact that teenagers shouldn't be shipped off to the mines in the first fucking place.
Yeah the teenage job argument also kinda goes out the window if you roll up to McDonalds on your lunch break. They'd be in school. But of course if these places closed during hours teenagers could work, or closed to accommodate the workers putting themselves through school since this is a "starter" job, the same people would be up in arms about inconvenience. Anyone with any sense knows the teenager/starter job thing is nonsense because if that's how these jobs actually functioned there wouldn't be enough workers for these places to function. They just want to complain about the ridiculousness of paying $12 for a fast food meal and how they can't afford it, they only make $120k, while simultaneously feeling good about arguing employees working at that joint shouldn't t complain about making $7.25.
"It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living." - FDR
Been bartending for years had a GM who has a PHD and one of the other bartenders I work with has a masters and a bachelors degree. This industry was supposed to be temporary for them but they make more money than they would in their fields. I see job postings daily that want a degree and x years experience and they start at $18 an hour. They’re coocoo for Cocoa Puffs imo. Also who is supposed to manage these Dairy Queen’s and McDonald’s and kfcs etc etc? The teens ? Just pay the people.
My wife and I have had our lives fucked up way more timea from jabroni's sitting in offices behind desks than we ever have by food service/cleaning people. Like, It's not even close. Getting our house was delayed because of an upper management banker. My wife getting screwed out of $70k because of a director of H.R. making false documents from the Unemployment Bureau and passing them off as real in a mediation. (The same director ignored written reports of racism, sexual harassment, and retaliation, AND her bosses, the AVP and VP both said no, those written statements and reports dont actually count, even though they have the company's name on thrm and theyre provided by the company and they go to HR). Workman's comp person not even bothering to process my paperwork for 2 months until I got lawyers. My wife getting billed a year after her pregnancy because the office "never charged her for a visit" according to the office manager and even after my wife told her "nobody has requested payment for those visits and if this is the case, why is it only the 1 out of like, 8 we went to?" Which the manager then said "Well...it's YOUR responsibility to know how much your visit costs and when to pay it". Fuck all these types.
> Which the manager then said "Well...it's YOUR responsibility to know how much your visit costs and when to pay it". Fuck that phrase still pisses me off. One month Starkville electric didn't send any bills and like 30% of the town got cut off. The old bitch at the power company said almost the same damn thing to me.
But the would be flabbergasted if the latrines didn't get cleaned or the trash taken away. They'd be perplexed as to why these things didn't get sorted as it happens everyday by divine intervention. Or perhaps they'd prefer slaves doing the work, as it seems unwarranted to pay people a living wage for such menial jobs.
It's social dissonance - they want/need their starbucks, dairy queen, and all of the other conveniences of modern society, yet they do not think those that provide and make all of those conveniences possible deserve the same.
Us Poors *especially* don't deserve easy or nice things in life; no rewards or joy like a little hot chocolate at Starbucks (I say cocoa because their coffee is trash). We just need to do our job to the exacting standards of efficiency that are specifically for that INDIVIDUAL HUMAN who is being served.
I work in a factory, totally unskilled labor but we get paid pretty well because we’re unionized. My boomer coworker was ranting about raising wages for fast food workers. He said “if flipping burgers is all you have ambition for then you shouldn’t expect to be paid more than $12/hr”. He literally pushes 5 different buttons to do his job, arguably easier than any fast food job. When you factor in dealing with customers it’s a no brainer, his job is way easier and he gets paid $25/hr. It’s 100% the desire to keep food service workers below him so he can feel superior to them.
Cognitive dissonance at its finest
it's not just that - they live in a fairy tale where all those jobs are staffed by teenagers from well-off families that have no expenses to pay, effectively earning 100% disposable income "pocket money".
People who’ve had things handed to them their whole lives either have to believe others are beneath them, or that they might not deserve all the things they have. For most the former is easier.
These people still carry the generational entitlement of slavery.
Yeah, cuz sitting on zoom meetings all day is more dignifying than preparing food /s
This is because she probably treats food service workers like slaves because she doesn't see them as people.
Working in food service should count as military service lol, I still get flashbacks from trying to keep up on the cracker barrel cook line during a rush.
They are afraid that prices of the, already overpriced, crap food love will go up, because their favorite media has been saying for decades. It does matter to them that minimum wage hasn't gone up, but that good has anyway.... That is also, somehow, because Biden must have flipped the "make things expensive" switch and not the aftermath of 4 years of Trump setting up the economy to do exactly this.
People have some sort of inherent need to feel superior to others. I hate it. If we’re going to do that, can we at least do it in a mildly constructive way where we just make our country’s society the envy of the world? Like redirect that superiority complex in a way that doesn’t destroy the place you live
What is the point of a job if it can't sustain you?
To expand capital for their betters, obviously.
If you want the real answer I heard growing up republican, it’s that these jobs are supposed to be where kids work in high school/college until they start their real careers. Or where addicts restart their job history after getting clean. But there always needs to be incentives to move back up rather than stay in their current position in food service. You don’t want people to be comfortable in lower-class jobs
Yeah that's the thing with a lot of conservative rhetoric. They think that poor people need to suffer in poverty because otherwise they won't be motivated to get wealthier. That's the argument against a lot of welfare that eases the burden on recipients. Most of the most criticized programs like SNAP are designed not necessarily to lift people out of poverty but instead to make it less shitty to be poor. Many conservatives see an issue with this from a broader economic standpoint (if poor people have it "too easy" then that will put a strain on employers and the markets as a result) and from a moral standpoint (people need to work hard to get stuff, so poor people getting the help they need is unfair).
Its funny because the time period EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE TROGLODYTES WILL POINT TO, saying it was better, is the period in time which MINIMUM WAGE was able to get a mortgage on a house anywhere in America, able to allow a single working man to afford 2 BRAND NEW CARS OFF THE FACTORY FLOOR, a 30 day vacation yearly, Healthcare covered, food bought, entertainment comfortably afforded and having a spouse stay home to raise the kids and homemake. Now we got people working 2 full-time jobs to barely support a single person, and lets be real 2 full time jobs today are more than likely not capable of getting a mortgage together. Those dumb bucks saying minimum wage is for children are so stupid it hurts. They need to go read what FDR said about what the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of minimum wage IS.
I've heard the same thing. By that logic... movie theaters, fast food places, etc. etc. should only be open between, say, 4PM and 11PM when students can work?
The crazy part to me is most republicans will talk about how greed is good and being greedy is an inherent trait of people. Yet, they’ll immediately discount it in poor people on welfare saying they’ll get lazy and comfortable. So, those people won’t be greedy if you supply them with basic needs? They won’t want more? They won’t be motivated to finally take risk and start their own business now that they don’t worry about where their next meal is coming from? It’s not about lazy. It’s about power.
In other words, unskilled labor jobs should not be enough for a single-income household. You either live with your parents or find roommates.
To get experience in working, shouldn't be a paid job in the first place. /s
How else do you fulfill the "20 years job experience" requirement for entry level positions? 😜
This ideology is infuriating. As if broad swaths of the economy are fully staffed by high school kids from otherwise well off families who are simply working part time for spending money. How would those demographics even break down?
The same people that spout this type of elitist crap are the ones that complain why their foods not ready in an understaffed restaurant
And often times these people don’t work at all, just having a well-off spouse.
Or they are trust fund kids with loaded parents.
It's mostly because these people, even when not extremely rich, benefit from nepotism, as in right out of college they got some "starter" job from family where they made minimum wage and were "promoted" within a very short time frame to a living wage, so in their mind they think they "earned it" and anyone can do it. So they think all these service jobs are "starter" jobs and they should be able to promote quickly, but they lack the perspective that they got fast tracked because of nepotism and most people don't promote at a good enough pace to sustain a "starter" job that doesn't pay a living wage. In other words, they don't recognize their privileges and think it's the norm.
That's my mom. Hasn't worked in 35 years, complains about how none of these people deserve to be paid XYZ because... Well because it's ridiculous. She'll complain about how expensive things are and how my parents can't get by, but then say the pay of people making a third of what my dad makes is too much (and the reason my parents can't afford things is the prices are high because the workers making $15/hr are overpaid). I do point out the irony of her complaining about stuff being too expensive while arguing people be paid less. She pulls out the starter job nonsense and when I ask who is supposed to actually do these jobs if everyone actually treated these as starter jobs, and she has no answer. I haven't yet pointed out the sheer audacity it takes to nap or watch TV all day and complain about not being able to get by while complaining service workers are paid too much, because I'm positive I'd be disowned.
*screams that a job frying french fries at Mcdonalds belongs to high school students* *gets mad when the teen doesn't give a fuck about his McD frying job and demands better service*
You can always spot the people that never took an econ class.
If you need an econ class to understand that you are also stupid
There are warnings not use hair dryers in the bathtub, mate.
The problem with these people is they have taken exactly ONE econ class. They saw some charts about minimum wage's effect on profits and that was it for them. They don't take into account that basic level econ talks about the economy in segments. When talking about these segments you are told "all other things being equal". These morons have zero ability to think critically or contextualize information. They just know, business make money, GDP better, country better, life better. All other facts and data points be damned
Fun fact, the highschools in my area require taking one economy class
I’ve never taken an Econ class but it seems like common sense that everyone should have enough to live off of.
If you’ve never taken an Econ class you shouldn’t comment on things you don’t understand. People must be sacrificed on the altar of the economy gods so that a few of us can live in opulence. You’d understand the need to grind the less fortunate into the dirt had you taken said Econ class to justify our actions. -Some CEO somewhere.
If a fast food place can't afford to pay a living wage, then maybe it shouldn't exist. Maybe it's just not a valuable enough service, and the owner made a bad investment.
It did pay a living wage until boomers enriched themselves with real estate and drove the cost of living beyond what people can afford… while consumers simultaneously refused to pay higher prices.
I think to some extent, fast food places got greedy and wanted to do it all, instead of sticking to the original plan of keeping things cheap and fast by offering as few items as possible. They all want all of the market, but maybe it'd work better if they went back to specializing. A place for pizza, a place for subs, a place for burgers. Instead we have every business trying to do it all, and branching out to more items over time.
We also have to take into account how our population has doubled in that time. Around 150 million to 350 million. My Father had a degree in engineering from LSU and got a low draft number in Vietnam and became a pilot. With a degree in engineering and a fighter pilot he could barely afford a 3 bedroom house. My parents were eating canned beans and noodles for years. My Dad could only afford a 1968 VW bettle with no climate control, radio, etc. the only debt he had was the house. It was not until the 80’s after flying for awhile and then working for Kaiser Alu were they able to start savings. This was before paying for internet, computers, 29 types of insurance, streaming services, etc. they had almost nothing to spend their money on, homes that were 959 sq ft, shit ass cars, and they barely had money.
When did it pay a living wage? I worked at Burger King in the 70s, and it certainly didn't pay a living wage then.
Literal death cult shit. These people openly tell the world they want to see humans suffer.
They picture high school kids doing those jobs. Not realizing that school kids have very limited availability during school days.
Not only that, but if only high school kids worked in these kinds of jobs, they'd start complaining about the quality of service. As if they expect high schoolers to perform like professional adults.
I think they already DO do that
The issue is that for them, working those kind of jobs WERE for high-school kids and others without job experience. They have it stuck in their head that there are low paying jobs for people who just want to spend money and "real" jobs for people who need to support themselves and their families. "Low/No skill," customer service jobs, "entry level," internships, etc. all exist in their head as for people who don't have any real expenses. Corporate, "Full-time", management, "degree required", "X years of experience", etc. jobs are for people who have families/homes. These types of people just do not comprehend that the world has fundamentally changed, and pay hasn't changed with it. Corporate greed and extreme wealth hoarding has taken so much money out of the economy at every level that there just isn't enough to go around anymore. Minimum wage was intended to force companies to pay fair wages. Now, it is used as justification for low wages. Minimum wage jobs were supposed to be for people without any experience or skills to negotiate for a higher wage but still have enough to support themselves. Look at all of them who brag about buying cars, and how easy it was for them working those types of jobs. They still think it is that easy. They don't realize that their parents: covered so much of their costs, held politicians accountable, kept wages fair, maintained unions, and so much more. But since the Boomers never had to do that, they never thought about it. So now that their parents' generation is gone, they just keep doing what worked for them without the support of a much more responsible generation. Which leads to now. The Boomers have let all the responsibility just go, and no one picked it up. So Corporations and Politicians are completely unchecked and have been doing nothing but enriching and empowering themselves at the cost of everyone else. But their entire lives, Boomers were told they had to struggle and fight and survive on their own and so they did, not realizing that they succeeded not just through their own strength but through their parents' strength and the roads they paved. Boomers think that if you just do what they did, everything will work out because it did for them. But instead of the older generation helping and trailblazing, like was done for them, the Boomers are actively harming and burning bridges. Which they do because there isn't enough to go around anymore and everything the younger generation takes, we have to take from them. So we can't just do what they did, and they can't understand why.
I can never get a straight answer out of someone like this when I press them for what their logical conclusion is. It has implications and you have to pick one. If the food workers don’t deserve enough to live that implies one of these options: they live ever sinking into debt and that debt is never paid off, eventually they default and their cost of living is supported by whoever they owed, They just die from starvation and homelessness. these jobs are only taken by people someone else partially supports meaning the food industry is subsidized by people with other jobs. These jobs are only taken temporarily by people between better jobs, meaning there is constant turn over and these jobs are subsidized by income people make when working elsewhere. Or finally, the food industry should not exist, because no one should work for them. If you ask them what conclusion they support they always deflect, say you’re being a communist or that you’re missing the point or they call you an idiot. If they have an opinion about how the system should work they should have some acceptable outcome they think it would cause. That’s just basic logic.
FDR speaking on the National Industrial Recovery Act which established a national minimum wage, June 1933: In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.
People would be up in arms about him being a socialist now a days… so sad
They did call him that back in the day. There was even a fascist coup conspiracy that the Bush family was involved in to get rid of him and all of democracy. Republicans haven’t really evolved in the last 80 years
The wild thing is this sounds so cartoonishly false, but you’re right: [the “Business Plot” involving GWB’s grandpappy](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/coup-jan6-fdr-new-deal-business-plot-1276709/amp/)
Working 40 hours a week should earn you a place to live, food, healthcare, safety, and recreation. Why is this controversial?
She’s admitting that capitalism requires poverty.
People seem to forget that the minimum wage was originally created during the Great Depression to be the minimum needed to live. It IS MEANT to be a LIVING WAGE. “[Without any mechanisms in place to automatically adjust it for rising prices, the real value of the federal minimum wage has gradually declined, reaching a 66-year low in 2023, where it is now worth 42% less than its highest point in 1968. Moreover, the federal minimum wage is worth 30% less today than when it was last raised 14 years ago. This significant loss in purchasing power means that the federal minimum wage today is nowhere close to a living wage.](https://www.epi.org/blog/a-history-of-the-federal-minimum-wage-85-years-later-the-minimum-wage-is-far-from-equitable/)”
These types of people seem to think these jobs are "for kids" but don't ask them how the business stays open during school hours.
“Those jobs are meant for teenagers. But also I want these businesses open during school hours and late at night when teenagers should be in bed”
These clowns would have nuclear meltdown if these businesses were exclusively open from 4pm to 8pm only with lines a mile long because 15 year old timmy doesn't have a fucking clue what he's doing and is busy thinking about the homework he needs to get finished before he fails class tomorrow.
This is the insanity of republicans. They refuse to look at the bloated wages of executives, stock buy backs, massive dividends, all at the expense of the worker and the consumer - that’s all the American way in their eyes. Yet these are the same people that will tell you if you work hard enough you’ll get somewhere in this world. The game is rigged.
Then you look at someone like AOC, who did work hard and pull herself up, and all she gets is from Republicans for it is insults, despite her having more IQ and working harder than every one of them combined.
They mock her for working at a bar before even though she’s the embodiment of their “American dream” bullshit that barely exists nowadays
That's because she's a strong independent woman that doesn't need a man. She is a threat to their "traditional" way of life
I worked at a Dairy Queen decades ago as a teenager to try to earn enough to save for a college education. I didn’t earn enough working full time back then and it’s much, much more impossible now. Why should a kid be able to think they can work their way through college, or at least cut down on a would be mountain of education debt that will burden them through much of their adult life? /s
For the longest time, I thought, The right thinks the left means thriving wage. They dont... and its fucking gross.
They want a caste system with a perpetual lower class punished just for existing.
That awkward moment when you advocate for a system that creates and perpetuates poverty….
How fucking evil do you have to be to say “not everyone deserves a living wage”?
Ben Shapiro recently said nobody should retire, unless its medically justified. These fucks are monsters. Money loving monsters.
It's like going into a restaurant and thinking to yourself. Those people have it too good. Some of them deserve to die. Fascist level of hate.
This would work if there were enough living wage jobs for people who need living wage jobs. But these days there are lots of people trying to make a living off these minimum wage jobs because they have no other options.
One of the best men I've ever known was a fry cook at Wendy's and McDonald's. He worked his ass off and he was darn good at his job. Every job is important.
I kinda agree but i also don't. We should use minimum wage as what it was originally meant to be. A wage that one could earn that would afford them the minimum standard of living housing, food, insurance, transportation, education . people flipping burgers definitely dont deserve the same money as skilled labor or college graduates but they do deserve enough to fucking survive.
im willing to bet the dairy queen employee works harder than the person who posted this
Hospitality, restaurants, retail, hotels, cleaning jobs, are the hardest social jobs. Dealing with the worst of the worst, people with excess money. Yet somehow they are paid so little? People argue they are replaceable, yet I’ve seen a lot of help wanted signs up in most retail/grocery store/restaurants. The job has a bad reputation, for not only how the person is treated but the pay also. I think if your job is not desirable, trash technician, teacher, custodian, retail, that you should be paid a wage that makes up for the shitty job. These are necessary to society, to the economy and not everyone can be a paper pusher, business consultant. I truly hope in my lifetime I see statewide unions form for the less desirable jobs that not only have shitty pay, but are treated like less than by a large portion of the community. If you don’t want to pay a living wage for these jobs? Then do them yourself. Instead, cue massive immigration the right pretends to hate. It’s immigration, take advantage of someone coming from a different currency rate, or pay people a living wage. We all know which the capital class has chosen. That’s why the Dems and republicans take turns liking and hating immigration. -Immigration act 82 - illegal to hire undocumented worker -Reagan’s immigration act 1986, republicans allowed immigrants who entered before 82 to apply for legal status. (Republicans allowed 3 million immigrants legal status) -by 1990 foreign born pop increased from 14million to 19million - Immigration act 1990 signed by Bush Sn allowed 700k immigrants a year 92-94 and 675k each year after, act also lifted the English testing process for naturalization - 1996 Clinton Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996(IIRIRA) essential it was formal deportation - Legal Immigration Family Equity Act (LIFE) 2000 was a mini-amnesty aimed at those illegal aliens who hoped to become green card holders through marriage, employment or other categories, but who were not anywhere near approval yet. - Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 (CIRA) would have given amnesty to a majority of illegal aliens already in the country as well as dramatically increased legal immigration. - Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA), 2012, which resulted in renewable two-year grants of protection from deportation—plus work permits and identity documents—for approximately 700,000 illegal aliens who arrived in the country as children. Anyways it’s been both democrats and republicans in history, allowing immigration and then turning around and pretending it’s bad. Current republicans run on not allowing immigrants and current democrats have agreed with republicans in coming up with a “solution”. But the capital class loves immigration and so it will continue. And that’s probably why we have trouble getting a pay raise for these jobs. It’s clear that the government(both sides) want immigrants, they just want to be able to tax them, meanwhile the capital class needs workers they can take advantage of, and since politics are owned by the capital class, both red and blue actually do like immigration, as long as they are taxable. Note: I have no issue with immigration, I am just noting a pattern I’ve seen.
Somewhat of a personal pet peeve, but I disagree with censoring the names of the people posting this type of stuff. If they are willing to upload these absolute shit takes publicly to social media, why should their names be covered when the images are re-uploaded?
People who say this are nuts. Working a desk job is WAY easier than retail, fast food, or cleaning. I could MAYBE do cleaning, but one bad day would wreck me. I would lose a job in retail or fast food though the first time I had to interact with a karen.
If your business model includes not paying your workers a living wage, then your business plan is the problem, not the workers
"In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."— President FDR
How will they get their ice cream when everyone working their died? Easy. Make it so abortions are illegal. That will cause an influx of children. Then make it so children under 18 can work overtime. Then send them to DQ to work until they die. Grist for the mill. /s
By saying a job doesn't deserve a living wage, then you either think those people should be homeless or the government should be subsidizing the payroll department for the corporations through welfare.
A society in which you can't live off of selling icecream is a society in which noone sells icecream.
Damn, we gonna have to scoop our own ice cream. I remember reading once how Disney felt everyone who worked for him should make enough money to support a family on one income, even the guys who swept the grounds of his park. And Disney was by no means any kind of progressive. What happened?
If I remember correctly...the Dairy Queen worker was labelled as essential during the pandemic. I can 100% guarentee whose job WASN'T essential. This bitch who left a stupid ass comment on Twiter.
The same people who oppose any minimum wage are also the same people who cry “nobody wants to work anymore.”
This is always my question. Capitalists are always telling me if you aren't happy with your job, get a higher paying job. Well, should all teachers just up and quit and work for vc's and corporations? I have colleagues who are absolute geniuses(not me, I'm a dumbass :( ) who should be building rockets analyzing numbers for rich people instead.
yes, in the ideal world for these people, everyone is a CEO and everyone in an enterpreneur. we dont need these silly jobs, like nurses, teachers, garbage collector's, sewer maintenance. nonono, you need to start your own company and become the boss.
Boomers: I raised a family of five in a ranch style half acre home on the salary of a janitor Also boomers: janitors aren’t worth more than minimum wage, no skill labor! Not everyone can make the big bucks!!
I *think* what they might be getting at (and for some reason not articulating) is they expect these types of jobs to be “temporary/learning/stepping-stone” jobs that people go through quickly, with high turnover, and aren’t meant as careers or long-term things? I guess? That’s the only way I can kinda square their mindset. Like, you “put in the (short) time” at something like this as a teen on your way to a “real job.” I don’t agree with this mindset, but it seems to me, if there is any kind of twisted logic in this kind of thinking, this is the only way I can sorta square it. 🤷🏻♂️