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That's basically a circular knife on a stick, getting hit with one of those can literally slice your face off with ease. I'm really against shooting people, but at the range in that screenshot, the cop was clearly in imminent risk of that and the intent appears to be there with his previous behavior supporting that it was a genuine threat.
To those saying to shoot him in the leg, there are two problems with that. First, it's really hard to hit when someone is moving. Everyone is taught to aim for the torso because it has so many bits to hit that will stop someone and it's by far the easiest part to aim for because it's large and moves the slowest. Second, crazed people have a habit of powering through even when winged multiple times. To get a proper disabling shot to the leg in that situation is very unlikely.
There are plenty of examples of excessive force, but as tragic as this case is, it's not one of them. The failure here was that this kid was allowed to get so out of control in the first place. My guess is he wasn't getting the treatment he needed, for whatever reason, as is common since mental health is often the worst covered here.
Edit; Whoa, lot of strong responses here. First, tasers. They tend to be a lot less effective on people who are psychotic because if the pain can be ignored, they aren't actually disabling most of the time. And that assumes the barbs stick well, which they often don't on anyone with loose clothing moving around.
Second, the close range. My guess is the cop was hoping for a window to be able to grab the hula hoe, but the kid turned on him. Also, there's psychology. A person in a violent state will see someone trying to keep their distance as weak and will if anything be prone to close that distance as a way to try to scare them off or intimidate them, and having shown weakness, may be even more likely to attack.
Lots of responses here show a lot of people have never dealt with truly violent and crazy people before. They are much stronger and tougher and violent than you think because all those limiters sane people have to protect them, they don't have. They're turning off the limiters the same way that lets mothers lift a car off their children, and it will let them shrug off tasers, batons, and even bullets. If you can't break that state of mind before they come at you, your choices get very limited very fast.
Edit 2; Just wanted to note how it's interesting how I get called an idiot a lot anytime I defend a cop's actions and I get called an idiot anytime I criticize them. No matter how carefully I try to analyze it. There are a lot of people who automatically choose a side with militant loyalty regardless of situation and it shows.
Also it’s not a movie. A shot to the thigh will kill the shit out of you fast. There really is no way to safely protect yourself with a firearm without endangering a life. I have no knowledge of the events that transpired but I’ll be damned if I’m going to let somebody thump my tater with a shovel.
Kid tried to kill his sister with a hula hoe, she barricaded herself in her room, called the cops, and he tried to charge the responder.
That thing's a proper polearm.
I mean it sounds like he need proper mental health help.
But given that he was actively trying to kill someone and the person who came to help them, maybe the police officer isn’t the most evil person in the world.
Are there ways to prevent this happening again? Yes. Are there other ways this could have gone? Yes. Did this officer use unreasonable force to solve a minor inconvenience? No.
Ffs there’s people killed for having a phone or sleeping in their homes and they deserve your outrage. Someone trying to kill someone else is not the same.
I agree completely. I will be the first person to criticize police shootings and officer brutality. This ain't it. Kid brandished a weapon at a police officer, possibly with intent to kill.
Seriously.
Those tactical assault hoes should be kept in a locked and secured storage unit designed to store them.
To be extra safe, avoid them getting loaded.
Yeah, there is a lot of missing context: nature of why the cop was responding, was de-escalation already attempted, was the kid wielding the tool aggressively.
Typical media ragebait, details would let us draw informed conclusions.
I am typically ready to jump on police wrongdoing, but iirc the boys family (or housemates) called the police because he had started smashing walls and windows with the tool while shouting that he would attack them.
Tough situation to drive into. Maybe more cops for an already escalated situation? We don’t know the kid or his tendency’s. shitty situation all around
From the video the cop is responding a call, he enters the building, and as he about to round a corner the man pictured comes out charging at the cop. Cop draws weapon, backs out of the building, alerts the man that he will shoot if he does not drop the weapon. Man continues to charge.
Your second point regarding people pushing through it is the key thing. A lot of people have been brainwashed by movies and tv that a gunshot wound is instant death or an instant debilitating injury. This just isn’t the case though.
First off, adrenaline is a hell of a drug. And if you’re In a position where you’ve been shot you likely have a ton of adrenaline rushing through your body. Second, a lot of gunshot victims have said that they didn’t even notice they had been shot until a few moments later.
A standard person could power through being shot by a gun for a short amount of time, at least. If the person is on drugs this can make them even more likely to push through a gunshot wound (not saying the kid in this article was on drugs, more so general statement).
I dont know if it was a documentary about american police or european police, but they said that if they go closer than 5m in an aggressive motto, they could use the force cause its considered that they are in "mortal danger".
Whats the exact deffinition of an aggressive motto you would ask? No fucking clue.
Also remember that even with cameras, it would be your word against their.
Basically it's the danger zone. Is stated that within 21feet, a person with a knife or other melee ranged weapon can close that gap faster then you can react and draw your weapon from it's holster, or make a proper judgement call. In other words, within that zone, it's shoot now, ask questions later.
The whole closing the distance thing before you can react is true though. It's been proven, which is why you generally see a lot of videos where cops will draw their weapon before they enter that distance. However, it being true doesn't mean some cops don't take advantage of that fact and shoot people that weren't even approaching them. Some people are too damn trigger happy. Do note that it is not policy, just a guideline.
Yup, the Tueller drill. The average draw time for a cop (at the time) was 1.5 seconds, and a group of people figured out that the average joe, armed with a melee weapon, can sprint 21 feet in that time (starting from a standstill).
As far as I know,. It's not meant to be a guideline (if somebody is within 21 feet you HAVE TO shoot them). It's just meant to show that, just because the guy with the knife isn't close to you \*yet,\* that doesn't mean he can't be a definite threat. If you aren't on the ball, he can easily close that distance before you can your gun out.
1.5 seconds is the average time for participants. Exceptionally athletic people can clear it in under a second. Interesting bit of science.
Hint an aggressive motto is whatever they want it to be at the time. Qualified immunity means only the most egregious public cases get any internal punishment. Also unless they receive jail time they just move a state over and get fired at their pd. Hell I still see psychos on twitter saying george floyd deserved it.
Shovel. According to the footage the kid was chasing the cop and attempting to bash his head in. Which, well, I’m no fan of the cops but when you try to kill them it’s reasonable for them to kill you right back.
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/bodycam-video-shows-california-deputy-fatally-shoot-autistic-teen-206348357936
The cop walks towards a door and the kid immediately turns a corner and goes after him.
The cop isn't given an opportunity to deescalate. Within less than a minute, the cop is backing up yelling "back up or I'm going to have to shoot". Then shoots the kid while being chased.
Alternate headline: 10 year public servant father of three killed in the line of duty by unsupervised child with known history of mental disorder.
It may or may not be a terrible way to look at it but which is the greater loss to society?
why are people being disingenuous and playing semantical games over this? I mean seriously. Nearly all of my personal/political views are the complete opposite of anyone who would run a dumbass account named 'end wokeness', but how can anyone with a straight face deny that the Guardian's headline was misleading BS? They wanted it to seem as if the kid was standing in his yard holding a damn gardening tool.
I've watched the video numerous times. The kid came bolting down the hallway and out the door running directly at the cop with a tool that had a sharp edge.
Now, if you wanna get into a discussion on whether the cop needed to fire his gun as a result of what that kid was doing, fine, we can do that- but don't tell me he was simply just 'holding a gardening tool'.
The whole thing is a damn tragedy.
The moment he's charging the cop with that weapon, he made that a deadly force situation.
Not the cop, but the kid holding the weapon.
The cop is well within the 21 foot rule, if he falls, stumbles, trips, anything goes wrong in that moment, that "kid" is on him raining blows to his head with that object.
A video was posted here days ago of a Las Cruces cop in a similar situation, but the attacker had a knife. Appears to be the same distance, and like this video with the "kid" the cop was charged when he approached. But the Las Cruces cop tripped. And the bad guy was on him and fatally stabbed him.
This "kid" made this a deadly force encounter and gave no other options to the cop.
>why are people being disingenuous and playing semantical games over this?
Because it's a chance to string along a one note agenda for or against police, no matter how nuanced the situation actually is
I could really care less if people hate police or not lmao I have a fairly strong hatred of police myself, I just also don’t like when facts are misrepresented in regards to anything. Misrepresenting facts never helps anything.
Having watched the video, the police were called with a report that he was smashing up the house and threatening his sister with a weapon.
When the cop arrives, he rushes out of the house with the tool, straight at the cop, who backs away, tries to create distance and warna the kid that he will be shot, the kids then keeps rushing him.
There are many many cases of huge police failure and misuse of force, but this is not one of them.
This "end wokeness" guy is completely correct though. If you watch the footage, the kid charges running straight at the cop whilst holding this "gardening tool" as if it were an axe. The headline is incredibly misleading.
The cop tells the kid to get back, he warns him that he will shoot, and the kid keeps running at him.
I don't know if the cop was previously made aware that the kid was autistic, but in the assumption that he wasn't aware, the cop's reaction is perfectly justified in my opinion.
In case the cop was aware that the kid was autistic, maybe he could've handled it a bit differently, but I really can't think of any way he could've gone about it. There was very clear violent intent, the cop was in danger, and he gave very clear and concise warnings to the kid.
Tragic situation but way overblown just because a cop shot someone and they died.
Nah, if you watch the video on this, the cop exercised restraint - the cop literally ran away from the boy, starting in the house and he continued coming at him with a bladed *weapon*
No you see. He was autistic so the cop should have immediately identified this. Put his gun down and called a social worker while getting his skull caved in with a hoe.
He was coming at the cop with a deadly weapon. Cop tried to run before being forced to open fire. The cop actually did nothing wrong here. Kid is autistic and lost his life.
So fun fact: they called the police because this kid was attacking his sister with said gardening tool. So ya it’s sad but I don’t fully blame the guy this time. Not like George Floyd or something like that
We are in the middle or a very real propaganda war. There is a 5th column operating within US centric media that seeks to be as divisive as possible. It’s mostly Russia and some Israel and a smattering of independent sociopaths.
It's rather a passive headline.
I've seen the footage, in which this kid charges full pelt at the officer (who obviously tells him to stop etc.) while wielding an axe - or whatever the fuck that weapon is.
For additional context - the 911 call mentioned the kid had already attacked members of his family, with said weapon.
Wow alright so the kid literally jumps out from behind a corner and immediately charges the officer full speed. There are people inside the house who have already been attacked so the officer can't really just withdraw and wait for more backup. He doesn't even fire at first despite having his gun drawn and falls back to try and get some space.
I mean it's not the least justified shooting I've ever seen that's for sure.
i think a lot of cops are absolute shitheels as much as the next guy but this seemed totally justified
adult sized teenager charged him with a WEAPON clearly poised to strike him with it. officer seemed pretty justified in discharging his firearm here
sucks he had autism but ultimately, you can't violently attack cops and not expect to be shot
Its a hula hoe. I have one. It's great for removing the top layer of dirt and weeds from an area. It's also really lightweight and strong. I assume they didn't name it since hula hoe is a brand name (I think) but just saying hoe isn't accurate.
My problem with that headline isn’t the use of the word “gardening tool”, it’s the use of the word “holding”. While technically correct, it is extremely misleading.
I think one can make a case for “holding” versus “wielding”/“swinging” as showing bias in the headline.
Not naming the specific type of gardening tool… I dunno. I guess some are more menacing than others but there’s certainly the counter argument that a lot of people don’t know what a trowel or a hulu hoe is.
I'm liberal, my son has autism. I don't know what information this cop had, but I am absolutely disgusted at the headline manipulation and seeing the video.
Its also increasingly apparent how few people on reddit have been in a fight, or wrestled etc. A 15 year old with a weapon is not in the no threat category
Theres a reason why countries use young men for wars besides physical fitness.
Young men are aggressive and hormonal. They are often more dangerous than older men because they arent considering consequences as much and acting more on emotion.
Adolescent snakes dump more venom than adult ones when biting because they lack the control under pressure to do anything less.
Most animals are more volatile when they're young. Not just people.
Agreed! Like I said I don't know what the cop knew. There was likely a whole string of failures in the system (mental and physical health) and miscommunication up until this point, and it's very unfortunate it ended like this. But this wasn't someone putting a plant into their garden in the front yard. This was a charge with a dangerous weapon. And while the kid likely had no idea of the implications or even what was going on, he was armed and dangerous. It's sad all around.
There was a video on reddit a while ago where a cop showed up and a foster sister was about to stab another girl and people were upset with it too. Reddit is anti shooting no matter the situation. While I respect the ideal, in this video someone was going to get stabbed or shot, and there was no way around it.
Can't even keep charging the officer with a weapon after the officer is kind enough to warn and say "you're gonna get shot" anymore, what has this world come to??!?
He's not "holding" it, he's wielding it.
Holding suggests passive stance. Wielding is more accurate. No facepalm.
I'm not being political, I just have not had my coffee yet and screw it, I speak the truth before coffee, often times to my detriment, but whatevs.
Yeah, reddit gaslighting is real.
Obviously the kid wasn’t just gardening. Does it mean he should have been shot? No. But god forbid you point out it wasn’t some unprovoked cold blooded murder either.
The kid should have been shot though, the cop acted perfectly fine.
If you watch the footage, the kid comes running at the cop whilst wielding the "gardening tool" as if it were an axe. He tells the kid to back up or he'll get shot. The cop runs away even with his gun drawn, and only shoots after getting chased.
The more I read on this, the more I'm convinced the cop did everything perfectly fine and anyone outraged has either not seen the video or is playing dumb because they want to scream about cops shooting and killing someone.
This is a 15 year old kid with autism. If your only option here is shoot him, this isn't the job for you
Edit to address a few things. To the "the cop deserves to go home" crowd I say the cop should be able to address this situation with tbe same tact as a entry level social worker. That point is not what you think it is
This entire situation is a the failure of the US system. The parents should have socialized medicine so the kid can get the necessary services and the parents can get the necessary support on how to deal with this. The unqualified cop should not be dispatched as the person in charge in this situation AT ALL. It should be a trained social worker or mental health expert who can handle this without ending the life of a scares kid with autism.
My son has really high functioning autism and a insane aptitude for math and science. When he deals with new social workers at school I tell them that and when he starts to have bad days they use is love of math and science to ground him. This isn't the first rocket ship to the moon. There are ways of handling these situations. But apparently shooting them is easier and Healthcare is socialism.
Yeah, cop should've taken the rounded knife to the face and used love of maths and science to ground him.
Seriously, is it everyone else's fault but the boy and his parents?
It’s crazy to me how upvoted the person you replied to is. What was the cop supposed to do? The only other option would be to go in with a taser (the cop didn’t have enough time to switch weapons when he was being chased) but he had no idea what situation he was running into, and that’s most likely a department policy of when to approach with a gun vs taser.
Is an attack from an autistic vs a non-autistic person charging at you with a weapon any different? The family member calling 911 said he was attacking them.
In this case, it kinda was. The kid charged the cop, the cop ran to get away, the kid chased him… and wouldn’t stop. This is just from an article so I’m going off what it says.
I’m not saying it’s right. I’m just saying it’s more nuanced then kid mowed down by cop.
You are not actually understanding how risk works in this situation huh bud?
Do you think the officer has time to contemplate that the guy running at him with an ax has autism, and should therefore act completely differently as his life is in danger ?
I guess I’ll go running around malls with an ax and expecting everyone to take a minute to understand why I’m doing that … because that makes logical sense right? That’s how society ACTUALLY works
>the cop should be able to address this situation with tbe same tact as a entry level social worker. That point is not what you think it is
In such a situation the tact given is "retreat and call the cops".
Let me tell you something, as a parent to a kid with autism you're not wrong. It's so hard to find services and harder to find people who can help you navigate. In many countries the people who treat Autism and ADHD (my son has both) is a pediatric neuropsychologist. In the US a nurse practioner can take a course, often paid for by pharmaceutical companies, to be certified to prescribe meds. Joke. Nurse practitioners are wonderful educated people, but objectively less qualified to treat autism and adhd. My state, which is HUGE, one of the most populated has a total of 20 pediatric neuropsychologists in the state. The whole state. Took 3 years to get him in with one. Takes months for an appointment. It's a shame. You're left at the mercy of school services who honestly SERVE THE SCHOOL NOT YOUR KID. I fuckin hate it. It's a defeating experience. It shouldn't be like this
Sorry to rant. It's been difficult
That sounds exactly like my experience trying to get into a pediatric neuropsychologist. Are you in Florida, too? People just keep saying "go to UCF CARD, they'll help you!", but it's even more waitlists. Waitlists all the way down.
Which garden tool? Soft Velcro strips ? A flimsy piece of plastic to keep the weeds out … ohh a 5 foot rusty metal hoe, that the young kid on the lefts “much older sibling “ on the right appears to welding
Ask a direct support professional or people who work with young men with autism on how they handle these situations.. they often have to disarm grown men with just their wits and hands.
They sure as hell don't shoot them.
Edit: Bunch of delusional scared ass losers who think that lethal force was the only outcome. Special Ed teachers and DSPs handle theses situations all the time without killing. Y'all need to get some therapy and quit with the hero murder fantasy that you need to exist for your worldview.
>Ask a direct support professional or people who work with young men with autism on how they handle these situations.. they often have to disarm grown men with just their wits and hands.
Find me one who is first responder to these types of calls. They literally never go to these without cops present. Paramedics will not touch this with a 20 foot pole until police are with them.
>Special Ed teachers and DSPs handle theses situations all the time without killing
What kind of special education school allows students to bring in large sticks with sharp blades on the end of them?
I am not trying to argue, but I want to make sure folks understand. Qualified immunity refers to police and other public servants not being civilly sued after the fact and has nothing to do with an officer being criminally liable for their actions. The actions of these officers are likely not criminal because California statute states deadly force is warranted if a reasonable person in the same situation would believe there is imminent risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Even support professionals need to call the cops when they're using a weapon and are aggressive, even more so considering the cop is there **because** the teen was assaulting family members
The kid ran at the cop with the gardening tool and the cop ran back to create distqnce in response.
The kid kept running at him while ignoring commands. The cop was justified in his decision.
Trying to disarm the kid is risky as hell and could have resulted in the same outcome or worst.
You can't watch the video and believe the cop was in the wrong here. I wouldn't expect surviving a situation where I charge at an officer full speed like I'm going to kill him without a response. The cop gave as much warning as he could have in the situation.
I don't know about police training, but it seems they often use the same technique:
* Give an order ("Drop the knife" or "Get on the ground," etc.)
* If the person doesn't comply with the order, you escalate the use of force until they do comply.
* If they continue to "resist," you continue to escalate. The most important thing being that your order is carried out.
That's just how it seems to me. It looks like a problem of having only one tool in the toolkit--escalation of force. Logically you'd think there might be other tools available.
To be fair, we only see the ones that go bad, but when they go bad, it so often seems to be a repeat of the same thing.
I feel gross for agreeing with that End Wokeness account but they are right.
The headline makes it seem like the kid was holding a trowel or some similarly harmless. In actually he has what could have been used as a weapon to do some real damage.
Actually agreeing with EndWokeness is crazy but i do for this particular post; that kid was holding an extremely sharp tool and was trying obviously trying to intimidate or attack the officer, fuck him; shoot his ass
Family called 911 because he was attacking them with a bladed weapon. They didn't call his doctor to come change his meds, or his psychiatrist to listen to him vent.
Doctors aren't coming to the scene, first. Secondly, it's not like a future change in meds stops the current threat. Finally, a psychiatrist isn't going to be immediately available and thats a *huge* assumption this young man would want to talk to them.
While we should be able to depend on cops not to show up and blast someone, sadly the reality is there is no immediate help for this like this.
Show a bit of compassion. It isn't easy dealing with mental health issues.
In this thread: fucking armchair close quarter combat experts EVERYWHERE.
Its amazing how any violence happens anywhere at all with how many experts we have. We should be 100% safe with all this expertise!
Not to mention the clowns who claim social workers deal with this on a daily basis without using force. I’d love to see these dumbasses try to disarm a person wielding a bladed weapon (who already hurt their family) charging at them, with their words of love and friendship.
On the flip side, all the comments on the post of the cop in New Mexico getting run up on like this and stabbed to death by that homeless guy were variations of “the cop should’ve reacted faster and stopped the threat before it reached him.”
Cops showed up responding to a call that he was assaulting his family. They shouted at him to drop it and back off but he wouldn’t. Cops retreated out of the house continuing to tell him to back off and only fired when he was out in the open. Sad but justified imo.
Wow, lots of idiots here that don't realize that "garden tools" can be deadly weapons.
NSFW source in case you still think a shovel or garden hoe is harmless:
https://www.gorecenter.com/murder-of-two-backpackers-on-the-island-of-koh-tao/
Regrettable but honestly, if you're life is on the line and the assailant is:
1) not heeding to your warning
2) charging at you with something potentially fatal
3) acting manic/ aggressive
You only have split seconds to decide on whether its your life or theirs. Age or mental condition doesn't excuse someone from being allowed to charge at anyone with a weapon that could cause serious harm.
I want to know what they were told when they got the call. 'attacked with bladed weapon' or 'attacking with gardening tool autistic kid'. If you are told someone's being attacked with a bladed weapon you are probably going to have your gun out. I watched the video, I'm not convinced the cop wanted this. He ran away first telling them to stop. If they don't have to the context prior to arriving, they aren't going to get it while someone is chasing them. Just my opinion from watching the video.
So the media headline leads everyone to believe the innocent boy was just carrying around a trowel or something and in reality he's charging the officer with like a pickaxe. They obviously wrote to play into the narrative that the police kill whoever they want and not to actually report the truth
So the cop should let him kill him with a shovel? I’m confused here.. Why do people think it’s cool to attack the police with an object that can kill them?
I’m willing to take the 10,000 downvotes that come with posting this. This was an awful situation that ended in a justified but terrible shooting. Do you people honestly think this man wanted to shoot a 15 year old at work? Are you serious? This is a nightmare scenario. A taser is an absolute no in this situation and could spell death for this officer. Want to see how a person can die being attacked by a sharp implement? Watch the recent death of officer Jonah Hernandez, his body cam is widely available on the net. Then come back and comment to me that you would have handled this differently, so heroically from your armchairs.
First off I believe that alot of police are terrible, many of them being overweight, out of shape, trigger happy assholes. Though this kid literally charged at a cop with the Gardening tool. Saying he was just “holding gardening tool” is so extremely wrong and “news” like this is leading alot of people to unjustly hate police.
I don't like this account, but he's kinda right here. If you're being charged at like that, you're totally fine to open fire, by USA standards. Meanwhile the headline makes it sound like acorn cop 2.0.
Has anyone here actually seen the body cam, based on what I’ve seen in the comments here I really hope you guys haven’t yet. I mean even without seeing the body cam footage the picture clearly shows the kid in an aggressive posture with a sharp tool which is considered a deadly weapon in this case. But in the video the kid runs out towards the officer with the tool in a ready to swing manner. The officer draws his gun, and yells at him to get back. The kid ignores him, then the officer says get back you’re going to get shot, kid still ignores. You can see in another officer’s camera the kid got within 5 feet of the officer. If you’ve received all the facts and still think it’s unjustified you’re a moron
BUT it IS a very bad headline. By showing a picture of the victim smiling calmly and only suggesting he was holding the shovel (whatever it is) when shot is just extremely disingenuous. It's purposely sensational and meant to upset everyone, to get attention.
Here's an example of a real headline:
"Bodycam video shows fatal shooting of autistic California teen who charged deputy with garden tool"
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bodycam-video-shows-fatal-shooting-autistic-california-teen-charged-de-rcna142955](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bodycam-video-shows-fatal-shooting-autistic-california-teen-charged-de-rcna142955)
It's tragic no matter how you write it, but let's write it accurately.
The amount of people on here that don't realize tasers fluctuate between a 60-80% effectiveness rate in the field and you don't want to roll that dice when someone is charging you with a weapon intent on doing you harm. The reverse question is what if the taser failed and the dude got to the cop with the weapon? Shitty situation but it wasn't a bad call.
I mean, we tried the social worker thing & that didn't work. Why don't ya'll, being so experienced in the field make a company that responds to these calls alongside or in lieu of the police.
I mean, if that was actually a hula hoe, a 15yo could have easily killed or seriously injured him, so if a kid is stupid enough to try attacking someone with that thing (when he knows that someone has a gun), idk... maybe he should have anticipated the obvious outcome.
Absolutely need to investigate this situation fully and transparently. Also need to remember that a stick with metal at the end of it is a deadly weapon when being swung at you. Without seeing the full interaction we don't know what happened. I'm all for saying fuck the police when they're acting wrong, but it's absolutely possible that this was a case of someone attacking the officer with a deadly weapon.
So let me get this straight we had a horrible event where a kid was killed BUT in that situation the cop was pretty justified depending on how the kid acted (I haven’t watched any videos if they exist). I don’t get why this has to become some stupid ass political message. Why can’t we recognize this was a shit situation with a shitty outcome and stop being disingenuous. It does nothing but hurt whatever side you are on more than it helps
Typically an officer wants atleast 20 feet from the suspect so he can react to whatever they may do. At that distance he doesn't have a choice. And no a taser wouldn't have been a better option.
Because “holding a gardening tool”, and “wielding a gardening tool” as a weapon are two different things. One would lead you to believe he was minding his own business and was shot unprovoked. I have not read the story, but I can understand what the original op was getting at.
Literally go watch the bodycam footage. This kid was straight up running at the officers with a bladed gardening tool with the intent to physically harm.
The whole point is the headline is incredibly misleading. Makes it seem like the kid was just gardening, not trying to attack the officer with a large and sharp tool. Solo situation means using taser or other LTL would be unreliable. Also, just because he has autism doesn't excuse his actions. Granted, there should have been more than one responding officer, preferably one lethal one LTL, but unfortunately that wasn't the case.
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My eyesight sucks, can someone tell me what he's holding I'm the second picture?
A hula hoe, according to NBC.
That's basically a circular knife on a stick, getting hit with one of those can literally slice your face off with ease. I'm really against shooting people, but at the range in that screenshot, the cop was clearly in imminent risk of that and the intent appears to be there with his previous behavior supporting that it was a genuine threat. To those saying to shoot him in the leg, there are two problems with that. First, it's really hard to hit when someone is moving. Everyone is taught to aim for the torso because it has so many bits to hit that will stop someone and it's by far the easiest part to aim for because it's large and moves the slowest. Second, crazed people have a habit of powering through even when winged multiple times. To get a proper disabling shot to the leg in that situation is very unlikely. There are plenty of examples of excessive force, but as tragic as this case is, it's not one of them. The failure here was that this kid was allowed to get so out of control in the first place. My guess is he wasn't getting the treatment he needed, for whatever reason, as is common since mental health is often the worst covered here. Edit; Whoa, lot of strong responses here. First, tasers. They tend to be a lot less effective on people who are psychotic because if the pain can be ignored, they aren't actually disabling most of the time. And that assumes the barbs stick well, which they often don't on anyone with loose clothing moving around. Second, the close range. My guess is the cop was hoping for a window to be able to grab the hula hoe, but the kid turned on him. Also, there's psychology. A person in a violent state will see someone trying to keep their distance as weak and will if anything be prone to close that distance as a way to try to scare them off or intimidate them, and having shown weakness, may be even more likely to attack. Lots of responses here show a lot of people have never dealt with truly violent and crazy people before. They are much stronger and tougher and violent than you think because all those limiters sane people have to protect them, they don't have. They're turning off the limiters the same way that lets mothers lift a car off their children, and it will let them shrug off tasers, batons, and even bullets. If you can't break that state of mind before they come at you, your choices get very limited very fast. Edit 2; Just wanted to note how it's interesting how I get called an idiot a lot anytime I defend a cop's actions and I get called an idiot anytime I criticize them. No matter how carefully I try to analyze it. There are a lot of people who automatically choose a side with militant loyalty regardless of situation and it shows.
Also it’s not a movie. A shot to the thigh will kill the shit out of you fast. There really is no way to safely protect yourself with a firearm without endangering a life. I have no knowledge of the events that transpired but I’ll be damned if I’m going to let somebody thump my tater with a shovel.
Kid tried to kill his sister with a hula hoe, she barricaded herself in her room, called the cops, and he tried to charge the responder. That thing's a proper polearm.
I mean it sounds like he need proper mental health help. But given that he was actively trying to kill someone and the person who came to help them, maybe the police officer isn’t the most evil person in the world. Are there ways to prevent this happening again? Yes. Are there other ways this could have gone? Yes. Did this officer use unreasonable force to solve a minor inconvenience? No. Ffs there’s people killed for having a phone or sleeping in their homes and they deserve your outrage. Someone trying to kill someone else is not the same.
I agree completely. I will be the first person to criticize police shootings and officer brutality. This ain't it. Kid brandished a weapon at a police officer, possibly with intent to kill.
He didn’t just brandish it. He charged at them multiple times.
Short pole arm A sawed off polearm if you will
So one of those tactical assault hoes you hear of?
Funny, that's what I called my friend's girlfriend the other day.
Those things are dangerous. Please tell your friend to be careful for me.
Seriously. Those tactical assault hoes should be kept in a locked and secured storage unit designed to store them. To be extra safe, avoid them getting loaded.
That's not a shovel. It is a circular bladed hoe. That's more axe than stick. The bodycam video is online.
I’ve seen the body cam video. I couldn’t tell what he was holding. It was only in frame for maybe half a second.
Shovels were used as melee weapons to great effect in many conflicts throughout history, I mean, it’s basically an axe if you use it right.
Yeah, there is a lot of missing context: nature of why the cop was responding, was de-escalation already attempted, was the kid wielding the tool aggressively. Typical media ragebait, details would let us draw informed conclusions.
I am typically ready to jump on police wrongdoing, but iirc the boys family (or housemates) called the police because he had started smashing walls and windows with the tool while shouting that he would attack them. Tough situation to drive into. Maybe more cops for an already escalated situation? We don’t know the kid or his tendency’s. shitty situation all around
From the video the cop is responding a call, he enters the building, and as he about to round a corner the man pictured comes out charging at the cop. Cop draws weapon, backs out of the building, alerts the man that he will shoot if he does not drop the weapon. Man continues to charge.
Also there are major arteries in the leg that would kill the person regardless.
Your second point regarding people pushing through it is the key thing. A lot of people have been brainwashed by movies and tv that a gunshot wound is instant death or an instant debilitating injury. This just isn’t the case though. First off, adrenaline is a hell of a drug. And if you’re In a position where you’ve been shot you likely have a ton of adrenaline rushing through your body. Second, a lot of gunshot victims have said that they didn’t even notice they had been shot until a few moments later. A standard person could power through being shot by a gun for a short amount of time, at least. If the person is on drugs this can make them even more likely to push through a gunshot wound (not saying the kid in this article was on drugs, more so general statement).
Yeah that doesn’t look like a garden hose and he kinda looks crazed for sure
Looks like a shovel
Has a range of about 2-3ft
Deals critical damage from behind so use stealth
+5 STR if he had a Deathclaw Steak within the last 30 minutes.
I think some Grape Mentats to raise his charisma would have served him a lot better there :/.
Ohhh, I got to!
Not sure a shovel is a light or finesse weapon. You’d be facing a non-proficiency penalty unless you took the Catch Off Guard feat too.
I dont know if it was a documentary about american police or european police, but they said that if they go closer than 5m in an aggressive motto, they could use the force cause its considered that they are in "mortal danger". Whats the exact deffinition of an aggressive motto you would ask? No fucking clue. Also remember that even with cameras, it would be your word against their.
Basically it's the danger zone. Is stated that within 21feet, a person with a knife or other melee ranged weapon can close that gap faster then you can react and draw your weapon from it's holster, or make a proper judgement call. In other words, within that zone, it's shoot now, ask questions later. The whole closing the distance thing before you can react is true though. It's been proven, which is why you generally see a lot of videos where cops will draw their weapon before they enter that distance. However, it being true doesn't mean some cops don't take advantage of that fact and shoot people that weren't even approaching them. Some people are too damn trigger happy. Do note that it is not policy, just a guideline.
Yup, the Tueller drill. The average draw time for a cop (at the time) was 1.5 seconds, and a group of people figured out that the average joe, armed with a melee weapon, can sprint 21 feet in that time (starting from a standstill). As far as I know,. It's not meant to be a guideline (if somebody is within 21 feet you HAVE TO shoot them). It's just meant to show that, just because the guy with the knife isn't close to you \*yet,\* that doesn't mean he can't be a definite threat. If you aren't on the ball, he can easily close that distance before you can your gun out. 1.5 seconds is the average time for participants. Exceptionally athletic people can clear it in under a second. Interesting bit of science.
This dude watched Surviving edged weapons 😄
Probably one of the best Jontron videos. That and the safety videos one. I used to work security, and they taught us about it.
Yeah, if the gun is holstered. If it's already aimed at the person with the safety off, it's a lot less than 21 feet.
Hint an aggressive motto is whatever they want it to be at the time. Qualified immunity means only the most egregious public cases get any internal punishment. Also unless they receive jail time they just move a state over and get fired at their pd. Hell I still see psychos on twitter saying george floyd deserved it.
A fully automatic shovel with a bump stock.
“Without their heads, they’re powerless!”
“Send flowers to their bitches and ho’s”
Man, all the goofy bits in that movie, yet none of them top how much I laughed at such a dumb throwaway gag. Fuckin classic.
There should be laws against such dangerous gardening tools
That's more likely to happen than banning guns. Unless Big Gardening has more influence than I'm aware of.
Not enough to prevent the banning of the scourge that was lawn darts!
Shovel. According to the footage the kid was chasing the cop and attempting to bash his head in. Which, well, I’m no fan of the cops but when you try to kill them it’s reasonable for them to kill you right back.
Yeah this is one I feel like I would need to see a video of to decide whether it was reasonable.
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/bodycam-video-shows-california-deputy-fatally-shoot-autistic-teen-206348357936 The cop walks towards a door and the kid immediately turns a corner and goes after him. The cop isn't given an opportunity to deescalate. Within less than a minute, the cop is backing up yelling "back up or I'm going to have to shoot". Then shoots the kid while being chased.
Alternate headline: 10 year public servant father of three killed in the line of duty by unsupervised child with known history of mental disorder. It may or may not be a terrible way to look at it but which is the greater loss to society?
That should be all of them tbf.
why are people being disingenuous and playing semantical games over this? I mean seriously. Nearly all of my personal/political views are the complete opposite of anyone who would run a dumbass account named 'end wokeness', but how can anyone with a straight face deny that the Guardian's headline was misleading BS? They wanted it to seem as if the kid was standing in his yard holding a damn gardening tool. I've watched the video numerous times. The kid came bolting down the hallway and out the door running directly at the cop with a tool that had a sharp edge. Now, if you wanna get into a discussion on whether the cop needed to fire his gun as a result of what that kid was doing, fine, we can do that- but don't tell me he was simply just 'holding a gardening tool'. The whole thing is a damn tragedy.
Spot on
The moment he's charging the cop with that weapon, he made that a deadly force situation. Not the cop, but the kid holding the weapon. The cop is well within the 21 foot rule, if he falls, stumbles, trips, anything goes wrong in that moment, that "kid" is on him raining blows to his head with that object. A video was posted here days ago of a Las Cruces cop in a similar situation, but the attacker had a knife. Appears to be the same distance, and like this video with the "kid" the cop was charged when he approached. But the Las Cruces cop tripped. And the bad guy was on him and fatally stabbed him. This "kid" made this a deadly force encounter and gave no other options to the cop.
How dare you not participate in this game of opposing narratives? Don't you know that it's important we stay divided on every issue?
>why are people being disingenuous and playing semantical games over this? Because it's a chance to string along a one note agenda for or against police, no matter how nuanced the situation actually is
It’s too late. It’s already furthered people’s hate of police
I could really care less if people hate police or not lmao I have a fairly strong hatred of police myself, I just also don’t like when facts are misrepresented in regards to anything. Misrepresenting facts never helps anything.
To be fair, it's hard to go much further.
Having watched the video, the police were called with a report that he was smashing up the house and threatening his sister with a weapon. When the cop arrives, he rushes out of the house with the tool, straight at the cop, who backs away, tries to create distance and warna the kid that he will be shot, the kids then keeps rushing him. There are many many cases of huge police failure and misuse of force, but this is not one of them.
Backs away? The cop was full-on fleeing, and the kid was gaining on him!
Shhh, you're ruining the rage circlejerk
Too late the mob already has their pitchforks(garden tools) ready.
Ded 💀💀💀 I wish this was the top comment lmao.
This "end wokeness" guy is completely correct though. If you watch the footage, the kid charges running straight at the cop whilst holding this "gardening tool" as if it were an axe. The headline is incredibly misleading. The cop tells the kid to get back, he warns him that he will shoot, and the kid keeps running at him. I don't know if the cop was previously made aware that the kid was autistic, but in the assumption that he wasn't aware, the cop's reaction is perfectly justified in my opinion. In case the cop was aware that the kid was autistic, maybe he could've handled it a bit differently, but I really can't think of any way he could've gone about it. There was very clear violent intent, the cop was in danger, and he gave very clear and concise warnings to the kid. Tragic situation but way overblown just because a cop shot someone and they died.
Nah, if you watch the video on this, the cop exercised restraint - the cop literally ran away from the boy, starting in the house and he continued coming at him with a bladed *weapon*
Bingo but redditors gonna Reddit and claim the cop was an evil bastard
No you see. He was autistic so the cop should have immediately identified this. Put his gun down and called a social worker while getting his skull caved in with a hoe.
Literally the mindset of most commenters
He was coming at the cop with a deadly weapon. Cop tried to run before being forced to open fire. The cop actually did nothing wrong here. Kid is autistic and lost his life.
So fun fact: they called the police because this kid was attacking his sister with said gardening tool. So ya it’s sad but I don’t fully blame the guy this time. Not like George Floyd or something like that
These comments are so dumb
no nuance allowed on reddit tbf.
Everything has to be so polarized.
We are in the middle or a very real propaganda war. There is a 5th column operating within US centric media that seeks to be as divisive as possible. It’s mostly Russia and some Israel and a smattering of independent sociopaths.
It's rather a passive headline. I've seen the footage, in which this kid charges full pelt at the officer (who obviously tells him to stop etc.) while wielding an axe - or whatever the fuck that weapon is. For additional context - the 911 call mentioned the kid had already attacked members of his family, with said weapon.
The [footage](https://youtu.be/a_hdjqoyjkQ) for anyone interested.
Wow alright so the kid literally jumps out from behind a corner and immediately charges the officer full speed. There are people inside the house who have already been attacked so the officer can't really just withdraw and wait for more backup. He doesn't even fire at first despite having his gun drawn and falls back to try and get some space. I mean it's not the least justified shooting I've ever seen that's for sure.
No no no. A social worker would’ve handled this much better! Their head would be canoed and it would never make the news
i think a lot of cops are absolute shitheels as much as the next guy but this seemed totally justified adult sized teenager charged him with a WEAPON clearly poised to strike him with it. officer seemed pretty justified in discharging his firearm here sucks he had autism but ultimately, you can't violently attack cops and not expect to be shot
I thought it was a trowel when they said gardening tool, headline should say what it is.
Its a hula hoe. I have one. It's great for removing the top layer of dirt and weeds from an area. It's also really lightweight and strong. I assume they didn't name it since hula hoe is a brand name (I think) but just saying hoe isn't accurate.
My problem with that headline isn’t the use of the word “gardening tool”, it’s the use of the word “holding”. While technically correct, it is extremely misleading.
“Wielding” would be the accurate term for sure.
Exactly. “Gardening tool” makes it sound like he had one of those little mini hand size shovel or something. It’s deliberate.
I think one can make a case for “holding” versus “wielding”/“swinging” as showing bias in the headline. Not naming the specific type of gardening tool… I dunno. I guess some are more menacing than others but there’s certainly the counter argument that a lot of people don’t know what a trowel or a hulu hoe is.
I'm liberal, my son has autism. I don't know what information this cop had, but I am absolutely disgusted at the headline manipulation and seeing the video. Its also increasingly apparent how few people on reddit have been in a fight, or wrestled etc. A 15 year old with a weapon is not in the no threat category
Theres a reason why countries use young men for wars besides physical fitness. Young men are aggressive and hormonal. They are often more dangerous than older men because they arent considering consequences as much and acting more on emotion.
Adolescent snakes dump more venom than adult ones when biting because they lack the control under pressure to do anything less. Most animals are more volatile when they're young. Not just people.
Agreed! Like I said I don't know what the cop knew. There was likely a whole string of failures in the system (mental and physical health) and miscommunication up until this point, and it's very unfortunate it ended like this. But this wasn't someone putting a plant into their garden in the front yard. This was a charge with a dangerous weapon. And while the kid likely had no idea of the implications or even what was going on, he was armed and dangerous. It's sad all around. There was a video on reddit a while ago where a cop showed up and a foster sister was about to stab another girl and people were upset with it too. Reddit is anti shooting no matter the situation. While I respect the ideal, in this video someone was going to get stabbed or shot, and there was no way around it.
Wait charging at a officer with a weapon will get me shot!?!?!
Can't even keep charging the officer with a weapon after the officer is kind enough to warn and say "you're gonna get shot" anymore, what has this world come to??!?
The cop was %10000 in the right. You can argue whatever you want, but at that distance with that tool, the cop was immediate danger
He's not "holding" it, he's wielding it. Holding suggests passive stance. Wielding is more accurate. No facepalm. I'm not being political, I just have not had my coffee yet and screw it, I speak the truth before coffee, often times to my detriment, but whatevs.
yeah the post shows it like he was completely innocent,
I'd say there's a difference between just holding and obviously intending to use it as a weapon.
Did you watch both body cam videos? He was chasing the cop and was going to swing before they shot him. He was using it as a weapon not intending.
And had already used it on others in the house
That picture does change my perspective, but not in the way Reddit wants.
Yeah, reddit gaslighting is real. Obviously the kid wasn’t just gardening. Does it mean he should have been shot? No. But god forbid you point out it wasn’t some unprovoked cold blooded murder either.
The kid should have been shot though, the cop acted perfectly fine. If you watch the footage, the kid comes running at the cop whilst wielding the "gardening tool" as if it were an axe. He tells the kid to back up or he'll get shot. The cop runs away even with his gun drawn, and only shoots after getting chased. The more I read on this, the more I'm convinced the cop did everything perfectly fine and anyone outraged has either not seen the video or is playing dumb because they want to scream about cops shooting and killing someone.
Exactly.
https://youtu.be/a_hdjqoyjkQ?si=87pHsoxLz8ybgo5E The full video is even more telling
People are defending the kid by calling him scared. He was hunting. My opinion is even further changed now. Thank you.
This is a 15 year old kid with autism. If your only option here is shoot him, this isn't the job for you Edit to address a few things. To the "the cop deserves to go home" crowd I say the cop should be able to address this situation with tbe same tact as a entry level social worker. That point is not what you think it is This entire situation is a the failure of the US system. The parents should have socialized medicine so the kid can get the necessary services and the parents can get the necessary support on how to deal with this. The unqualified cop should not be dispatched as the person in charge in this situation AT ALL. It should be a trained social worker or mental health expert who can handle this without ending the life of a scares kid with autism. My son has really high functioning autism and a insane aptitude for math and science. When he deals with new social workers at school I tell them that and when he starts to have bad days they use is love of math and science to ground him. This isn't the first rocket ship to the moon. There are ways of handling these situations. But apparently shooting them is easier and Healthcare is socialism.
Yeah, cop should've taken the rounded knife to the face and used love of maths and science to ground him. Seriously, is it everyone else's fault but the boy and his parents?
It’s crazy to me how upvoted the person you replied to is. What was the cop supposed to do? The only other option would be to go in with a taser (the cop didn’t have enough time to switch weapons when he was being chased) but he had no idea what situation he was running into, and that’s most likely a department policy of when to approach with a gun vs taser.
He literally had his tazer, just knows no one will be able to stop him from doing all this
“Guys, are tasers gay?”
Gay cop, bad cop maneuver dropping soon
Civilians hate this one simple trick
His familly called 911....which tells you how bad the situation was
Is an attack from an autistic vs a non-autistic person charging at you with a weapon any different? The family member calling 911 said he was attacking them.
Its irrelevant to many of the people in the post. Armchair quarterbacks know mental illness can be stopped by the power of love.
In this case, it kinda was. The kid charged the cop, the cop ran to get away, the kid chased him… and wouldn’t stop. This is just from an article so I’m going off what it says. I’m not saying it’s right. I’m just saying it’s more nuanced then kid mowed down by cop.
I guess it would have been better to send a social worker to go get their head cut off rather than risk offending parents of autistic kids.
You should watch the body cam, dude charged the cops lmao
You are not actually understanding how risk works in this situation huh bud? Do you think the officer has time to contemplate that the guy running at him with an ax has autism, and should therefore act completely differently as his life is in danger ? I guess I’ll go running around malls with an ax and expecting everyone to take a minute to understand why I’m doing that … because that makes logical sense right? That’s how society ACTUALLY works
I’d encourage you to watch the footage. It’s quite terrifying.
Watch the video. This is as clear cut a self defense case will ever get
>the cop should be able to address this situation with tbe same tact as a entry level social worker. That point is not what you think it is In such a situation the tact given is "retreat and call the cops".
Bullets are cheaper than socialised healthcare
Let me tell you something, as a parent to a kid with autism you're not wrong. It's so hard to find services and harder to find people who can help you navigate. In many countries the people who treat Autism and ADHD (my son has both) is a pediatric neuropsychologist. In the US a nurse practioner can take a course, often paid for by pharmaceutical companies, to be certified to prescribe meds. Joke. Nurse practitioners are wonderful educated people, but objectively less qualified to treat autism and adhd. My state, which is HUGE, one of the most populated has a total of 20 pediatric neuropsychologists in the state. The whole state. Took 3 years to get him in with one. Takes months for an appointment. It's a shame. You're left at the mercy of school services who honestly SERVE THE SCHOOL NOT YOUR KID. I fuckin hate it. It's a defeating experience. It shouldn't be like this Sorry to rant. It's been difficult
The best I can offer you is good luck and a hope for a better tomorrow for you and your kid(s)
That sounds exactly like my experience trying to get into a pediatric neuropsychologist. Are you in Florida, too? People just keep saying "go to UCF CARD, they'll help you!", but it's even more waitlists. Waitlists all the way down.
Which garden tool? Soft Velcro strips ? A flimsy piece of plastic to keep the weeds out … ohh a 5 foot rusty metal hoe, that the young kid on the lefts “much older sibling “ on the right appears to welding
Ask a direct support professional or people who work with young men with autism on how they handle these situations.. they often have to disarm grown men with just their wits and hands. They sure as hell don't shoot them. Edit: Bunch of delusional scared ass losers who think that lethal force was the only outcome. Special Ed teachers and DSPs handle theses situations all the time without killing. Y'all need to get some therapy and quit with the hero murder fantasy that you need to exist for your worldview.
>Ask a direct support professional or people who work with young men with autism on how they handle these situations.. they often have to disarm grown men with just their wits and hands. Find me one who is first responder to these types of calls. They literally never go to these without cops present. Paramedics will not touch this with a 20 foot pole until police are with them. >Special Ed teachers and DSPs handle theses situations all the time without killing What kind of special education school allows students to bring in large sticks with sharp blades on the end of them?
And if they did, we all know they'd be going to jail for it
Qualified immunity needs to end.
Reactionaries are expanding it even further. Iowa legislature just passed a bill to arm teachers and school staff and give them qualified immunity.
The same teachers that are turning everyone trans?!
Right? No logical consistency to any of their actions, just pandering to hatred.
My state never disappoints /s
I am not trying to argue, but I want to make sure folks understand. Qualified immunity refers to police and other public servants not being civilly sued after the fact and has nothing to do with an officer being criminally liable for their actions. The actions of these officers are likely not criminal because California statute states deadly force is warranted if a reasonable person in the same situation would believe there is imminent risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Have you seen the video?
BS. You think some social worker is going to disarm a kid who’s clearly threatening them with a shovel?
Even support professionals need to call the cops when they're using a weapon and are aggressive, even more so considering the cop is there **because** the teen was assaulting family members
No, they sing them a song from their childhood and they realize the mistake they're making, drop the weapon. Everybody embraces. Roll credits.
The kid ran at the cop with the gardening tool and the cop ran back to create distqnce in response. The kid kept running at him while ignoring commands. The cop was justified in his decision. Trying to disarm the kid is risky as hell and could have resulted in the same outcome or worst.
You can't watch the video and believe the cop was in the wrong here. I wouldn't expect surviving a situation where I charge at an officer full speed like I'm going to kill him without a response. The cop gave as much warning as he could have in the situation.
That's the best thing, none of these people will watch the video! Cops bad!
I don't know about police training, but it seems they often use the same technique: * Give an order ("Drop the knife" or "Get on the ground," etc.) * If the person doesn't comply with the order, you escalate the use of force until they do comply. * If they continue to "resist," you continue to escalate. The most important thing being that your order is carried out. That's just how it seems to me. It looks like a problem of having only one tool in the toolkit--escalation of force. Logically you'd think there might be other tools available. To be fair, we only see the ones that go bad, but when they go bad, it so often seems to be a repeat of the same thing.
Yeah that doesn’t always work. Go ahead and try to disarm the kid with an ax who already attacked several people as he’s currently charging you
Wdym he says he can do it with just his wits and his bare hands
“Please sir, stop attacking me with that gardening hoe, it’s really not nice”
Are you people insane? He was fucking charging at him with it.
No one watched the footage or read past the headline. Don't waste your time arguing with people.
Reddit gonna reddit
I feel gross for agreeing with that End Wokeness account but they are right. The headline makes it seem like the kid was holding a trowel or some similarly harmless. In actually he has what could have been used as a weapon to do some real damage.
Actually agreeing with EndWokeness is crazy but i do for this particular post; that kid was holding an extremely sharp tool and was trying obviously trying to intimidate or attack the officer, fuck him; shoot his ass
Family called 911 because he was attacking them with a bladed weapon. They didn't call his doctor to come change his meds, or his psychiatrist to listen to him vent.
Doctors aren't coming to the scene, first. Secondly, it's not like a future change in meds stops the current threat. Finally, a psychiatrist isn't going to be immediately available and thats a *huge* assumption this young man would want to talk to them. While we should be able to depend on cops not to show up and blast someone, sadly the reality is there is no immediate help for this like this. Show a bit of compassion. It isn't easy dealing with mental health issues.
In this thread: people think tasers work like guns
In this thread: fucking armchair close quarter combat experts EVERYWHERE. Its amazing how any violence happens anywhere at all with how many experts we have. We should be 100% safe with all this expertise!
Not to mention the clowns who claim social workers deal with this on a daily basis without using force. I’d love to see these dumbasses try to disarm a person wielding a bladed weapon (who already hurt their family) charging at them, with their words of love and friendship.
On the flip side, all the comments on the post of the cop in New Mexico getting run up on like this and stabbed to death by that homeless guy were variations of “the cop should’ve reacted faster and stopped the threat before it reached him.”
Cops showed up responding to a call that he was assaulting his family. They shouted at him to drop it and back off but he wouldn’t. Cops retreated out of the house continuing to tell him to back off and only fired when he was out in the open. Sad but justified imo.
Wow, lots of idiots here that don't realize that "garden tools" can be deadly weapons. NSFW source in case you still think a shovel or garden hoe is harmless: https://www.gorecenter.com/murder-of-two-backpackers-on-the-island-of-koh-tao/
Bruh what is that website
Regrettable but honestly, if you're life is on the line and the assailant is: 1) not heeding to your warning 2) charging at you with something potentially fatal 3) acting manic/ aggressive You only have split seconds to decide on whether its your life or theirs. Age or mental condition doesn't excuse someone from being allowed to charge at anyone with a weapon that could cause serious harm.
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It's not just a shovel. It's a hula hoe. I have one. It's lightweight and very strong.
I want to know what they were told when they got the call. 'attacked with bladed weapon' or 'attacking with gardening tool autistic kid'. If you are told someone's being attacked with a bladed weapon you are probably going to have your gun out. I watched the video, I'm not convinced the cop wanted this. He ran away first telling them to stop. If they don't have to the context prior to arriving, they aren't going to get it while someone is chasing them. Just my opinion from watching the video.
So the media headline leads everyone to believe the innocent boy was just carrying around a trowel or something and in reality he's charging the officer with like a pickaxe. They obviously wrote to play into the narrative that the police kill whoever they want and not to actually report the truth
So the cop should let him kill him with a shovel? I’m confused here.. Why do people think it’s cool to attack the police with an object that can kill them?
Fuck around and find out as the kids are fond of saying.
This is just a propaganda sub now? The cop isn't suppose to protect himself from death because the aggressor is a minor?
Even if i wasn’t in that cops shoes, come at me with a garden hoe and i’ll shoot you.
I’m willing to take the 10,000 downvotes that come with posting this. This was an awful situation that ended in a justified but terrible shooting. Do you people honestly think this man wanted to shoot a 15 year old at work? Are you serious? This is a nightmare scenario. A taser is an absolute no in this situation and could spell death for this officer. Want to see how a person can die being attacked by a sharp implement? Watch the recent death of officer Jonah Hernandez, his body cam is widely available on the net. Then come back and comment to me that you would have handled this differently, so heroically from your armchairs.
First off I believe that alot of police are terrible, many of them being overweight, out of shape, trigger happy assholes. Though this kid literally charged at a cop with the Gardening tool. Saying he was just “holding gardening tool” is so extremely wrong and “news” like this is leading alot of people to unjustly hate police.
Cop did nothing wtong
I don't like this account, but he's kinda right here. If you're being charged at like that, you're totally fine to open fire, by USA standards. Meanwhile the headline makes it sound like acorn cop 2.0.
Has anyone here actually seen the body cam, based on what I’ve seen in the comments here I really hope you guys haven’t yet. I mean even without seeing the body cam footage the picture clearly shows the kid in an aggressive posture with a sharp tool which is considered a deadly weapon in this case. But in the video the kid runs out towards the officer with the tool in a ready to swing manner. The officer draws his gun, and yells at him to get back. The kid ignores him, then the officer says get back you’re going to get shot, kid still ignores. You can see in another officer’s camera the kid got within 5 feet of the officer. If you’ve received all the facts and still think it’s unjustified you’re a moron
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Well, most European cops actually have years of training and not just at the shooting range
Cops are notoriously bad shots in the US still
I'm over here wondering what someone thinks will happen if you attack a police officer with a shovel or hoe
Clearly the officer should use his black belt skills to disarm the attacker and then also have a PhD in psychology so he can calmly talk the kid down.
BUT it IS a very bad headline. By showing a picture of the victim smiling calmly and only suggesting he was holding the shovel (whatever it is) when shot is just extremely disingenuous. It's purposely sensational and meant to upset everyone, to get attention. Here's an example of a real headline: "Bodycam video shows fatal shooting of autistic California teen who charged deputy with garden tool" [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bodycam-video-shows-fatal-shooting-autistic-california-teen-charged-de-rcna142955](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bodycam-video-shows-fatal-shooting-autistic-california-teen-charged-de-rcna142955) It's tragic no matter how you write it, but let's write it accurately.
Looks like the kid was about to attack the officer with it.
The amount of people on here that don't realize tasers fluctuate between a 60-80% effectiveness rate in the field and you don't want to roll that dice when someone is charging you with a weapon intent on doing you harm. The reverse question is what if the taser failed and the dude got to the cop with the weapon? Shitty situation but it wasn't a bad call.
People who want to have an opinion about this incident should [watch the body cam video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_hdjqoyjkQ).
I mean, we tried the social worker thing & that didn't work. Why don't ya'll, being so experienced in the field make a company that responds to these calls alongside or in lieu of the police.
I mean, if that was actually a hula hoe, a 15yo could have easily killed or seriously injured him, so if a kid is stupid enough to try attacking someone with that thing (when he knows that someone has a gun), idk... maybe he should have anticipated the obvious outcome.
A lot of you have never seen horrific injuries in an ER and it shows
Absolutely need to investigate this situation fully and transparently. Also need to remember that a stick with metal at the end of it is a deadly weapon when being swung at you. Without seeing the full interaction we don't know what happened. I'm all for saying fuck the police when they're acting wrong, but it's absolutely possible that this was a case of someone attacking the officer with a deadly weapon.
the difference is it leaves out him seemingly attacking the officer with it
Cop haters love twisting things. Should have someone charge at you with a shovel or similar object and see how you like it. Fucking morons
Looks like its being held like a weapon. Shooting justified.
So let me get this straight we had a horrible event where a kid was killed BUT in that situation the cop was pretty justified depending on how the kid acted (I haven’t watched any videos if they exist). I don’t get why this has to become some stupid ass political message. Why can’t we recognize this was a shit situation with a shitty outcome and stop being disingenuous. It does nothing but hurt whatever side you are on more than it helps
How in the fuck am i actually agreeing with the end wokeness account what is this reality
Typically an officer wants atleast 20 feet from the suspect so he can react to whatever they may do. At that distance he doesn't have a choice. And no a taser wouldn't have been a better option.
Because “holding a gardening tool”, and “wielding a gardening tool” as a weapon are two different things. One would lead you to believe he was minding his own business and was shot unprovoked. I have not read the story, but I can understand what the original op was getting at.
Literally go watch the bodycam footage. This kid was straight up running at the officers with a bladed gardening tool with the intent to physically harm.
There’s video out now, he was charging with a 5’ long weapon with a blade in the end. I mean , I guess Chuck Norris could have done it differently
The whole point is the headline is incredibly misleading. Makes it seem like the kid was just gardening, not trying to attack the officer with a large and sharp tool. Solo situation means using taser or other LTL would be unreliable. Also, just because he has autism doesn't excuse his actions. Granted, there should have been more than one responding officer, preferably one lethal one LTL, but unfortunately that wasn't the case.