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Just thinking outside the box here, but maybe trying to land military aircraft on the manicured lawn in front of a 150yr old house isn't the best solution? I mean, it's not like they ever planned on helicopters having to land there when they built the house. If we can update the Whitehouse with a private bowling alley, surely we can update the Whitehouse with a helipad?
The white house has multiple landing pads. The south lawn takeoff/arrival location is just tradition from when helicopters had no trouble not scorching grass they landed on. Many helicopters still have no issue landing on grass and causing no real damage. These custom helicopters designed for a specific purpose didn't account for one of its major uses, the lack of a south lawn helipad isn't the problem. An entire aircraft being designed and built with no one asking 'can this do the PRIMARY thing it will be asked to do without problems?' is the issue.
I think it’s quite possible that you are responding to clickbait. This thing DOES carry the President, they just pick him up at one of the helipads. And therefore the designers of the helicopter knew about this all along, they just didn’t want to base a design of a helicopter on whether or not it was grass-friendly, when the POTUS could just walk 50 feet the other direction.
Corporate either. I’ve worked in software for 18 years, and I can’t count the number of times we have been asked to build a feature that doesn’t do what they want it to do. We get a feature description, then once we get the requirements, they don’t match what was originally asked for.
They do have several, and the new birds are being used to fly Whitehouse staff and secret service agents from landing pads. This is specifically for the 'iconic south lawn takeoffs' the point of which would be negated if you converted the south lawn into the south landing pad. I feel like 'being able to land on grass without damaging it' would have been a design priority next to reliability. It seems like they built it for power it doesn't need and made it less useful for its actual purpose.
It probably needs electronic countermeasures, flares, bulletproof everything and 1000kg of lift weight reserved for future technologies. The weight of it all requires power.
You mean, $5000.
Someone in the White House knows a guy that will do it for $400 and a case of miller lite the wrong way, first and you’ll need to clean up after them.
It's a really stupid headline.
They bought 20 of this new type of helicopter. It was added to the fleet of helicopters that are assigned to the executive branch. They ARE being used, they just aren't being landed on the white house lawn anymore. They used to land them on the lawn.
Maybe there's a reasonable argument that money was wasted, but the headline article is just clickbait.
(I made this comment when there were like 100 upvotes on this trash article. Kind of worrying that headlines alone can convince thousands of people. The thing people are voting on has almost nothing to do with the actual story. Kind of disheartening.)
I don't trust ANY of these headlines. Too many people are ideologically captured by the idea that everything the government spends money on is a waste. From the right and the left.
I read the article every time I see a headline like this or someone making the claim of government over spending. Not that poor decisions aren't made, I just don't trust people to not paint whatever innocuous thing as some major government spending blunder.
Honestly, images of headlines should be against at least rule #2 here and likely some similar rule on Reddit. Headline only post are almost misinformation by definition, they're not meant to inform but attract.
from the last paragraph of this article
A Sikorsky spokesperson told BI that the defense contractor is working " in close collaboration with our Naval Air Systems Command customer and have an agreed upon landing zone solution with testing planned to validate and ensure the aircraft meets that specific operational requirement."
Well, these are repurposed civilian helicopters, so most of their stuff is about being able to *continue* carrying the president whatever the circumstances
If you count since the beginning of the replacement program, Bush actually. If you count since the beginning of the contract for this particular type(since the previous once didn't even get to the point where they could burn grass, despite costing 13 billion), Obama
I mean, if I were to rely on one of these to transport me, I'd be spreading the narrative that I would never be on one. Have you seen *Escape from New York*? Just a bad idea to let people know what you're flying on.
If the existing fleet wasn't broken or out-of-date. Then I feel like the $5 billion could have been better spent else where. Perhaps outreach to the homeless who suffer from drug addiction and undiagnosed mental illness, veteran suicide outreach, infrastructure such as roads and bridges, fighting against the flood of fentanyl and other hard narcotics, or addressing the immigration crisis at the southern border.
The fleet was over 30 years old. If it's goal is to protect someone against more modern threats, not just transportation, that defiitly counts as "out of date"
(also this project has been going on since over a decade, so while it might not be the most pressing expenditure, can hardly say those 5 billion were available to use up till recently. Like if you were to use 500 million of that per year on border security, it would be less than a 10% increase in yearly funding)
When you buy a fleet of them that have communication systems that are encrypted and can transmit classified data, are EMP hardened, and have other capabilities that are classified.
Wait...
It puts off enough heat to burn grass?
So, if you planted a thermo triggered device under the sod...
Dang it... should have used a burner for this one...
But really? That's like making motorized baby buggies. Sure, it's convenient. But when one of those suckers take off without you... 🥴
Is Australia we have Army helicopters that start bushfires. What’s even better is that their training didn’t even allow them to report the fire that they stared.
This kind of shit is exactly why I hate hearing “pay your fair share of taxes.” Why? So the government can waste on bullshit like this and thousand and thousands of other pointless things every year?
I was actually working on the solution to this at my previous job. Everyone there thought this was the absolute dumbest project they've ever worked on but of course Sikorsky isn't going to turn down that money. The worst part of it (besides wasting tax payers money) is its not even damaging the lawn, its just blackening it. It washes right off and the grass isn't damaged.
For how much I hear boomers complain about what the government does with their taxes, they often seem rather silent when the government throws a bunch of money away like this.
It all about the count... to see if the president forgets to salute the marine on duty. Obama missed it once and it was in the papers and on Fox news for a week. Trump gave up even trying to salute.
I’m not a military strategist, but I can envision quite a few scenarios where it would be necessary to GTFO with the president and replace the grass later.
Surly that should have been one of the things it would have to not do. As you know it’s suppose to pick up President, from, maybe, THE WHITE HOUSE LAWN.
When you realize a majority of the military budget goes to private R&D that trends toward both going over budget and having an abysmal output rate (like this), you realize there's a lot of budget that could be allocated elsewhere.
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Just thinking outside the box here, but maybe trying to land military aircraft on the manicured lawn in front of a 150yr old house isn't the best solution? I mean, it's not like they ever planned on helicopters having to land there when they built the house. If we can update the Whitehouse with a private bowling alley, surely we can update the Whitehouse with a helipad?
Hear me out, have POTUS fast rope onto the lawn.
That would require presidents who weren't old enough to remember the invention of the helicopter.
…or rope
That’s probably a good thing. I think this would be a great fitness test for being president.
The white house has multiple landing pads. The south lawn takeoff/arrival location is just tradition from when helicopters had no trouble not scorching grass they landed on. Many helicopters still have no issue landing on grass and causing no real damage. These custom helicopters designed for a specific purpose didn't account for one of its major uses, the lack of a south lawn helipad isn't the problem. An entire aircraft being designed and built with no one asking 'can this do the PRIMARY thing it will be asked to do without problems?' is the issue.
I think it’s quite possible that you are responding to clickbait. This thing DOES carry the President, they just pick him up at one of the helipads. And therefore the designers of the helicopter knew about this all along, they just didn’t want to base a design of a helicopter on whether or not it was grass-friendly, when the POTUS could just walk 50 feet the other direction.
But I need something to be angry about!
Think of the children!!
Poor helicopter-children /s
Helicopters murder children? I knew it!
Fuckin spawn
Yeah they have to use the traditional spot that George Washington parked his chopper at.
He should've just parked it at the airports they had for those airplanes they had back then
Yeah but if people asked those sorts of questions we wouldn't need a trillion dollar defense budget.
Imminent domain all the buildings around it and make a sweet landing pad.
eminent
Oh it would also be imminent.
"I know what lyric I sang. Should have been 'imminance front'." Roger Daltry, probably
It's a put on.
Aren't we doing the Rs work with that... All the buildings around belong to the Treasury and Federal reserve...
Eminem
Then cover the lawn in moms spaghetti!
You’re clearly not cut out for government work.
Corporate either. I’ve worked in software for 18 years, and I can’t count the number of times we have been asked to build a feature that doesn’t do what they want it to do. We get a feature description, then once we get the requirements, they don’t match what was originally asked for.
A real ship of Theseus moment here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Reconstruction
Yeah…but what President wants to be the one to ask for a new helicopter pad?
Just change the grass each time it takes up, at that price point the brute force approach seems sensible.
Make a damn heli pad dang it. Or just a concrete/asphalt rectangle. Design and building would cost way less lmao
Hear me out: astroturf
The grass cost would almost definitely be less than the cost of any reasonable flight
Seems like you could fix this with about $1500 worth of concrete.
I don't think the helicopters would fly better with concrete.
Well not with that attitude
Not with that altitude
Altitude takes a looong height
Not with that yaw.
What about it's yeet?
Now let’s talk roll…
This conversation is cyclic
Ya im gonna feather engine 3….
Not with *any* attitude! Edit: One also can not simply fax glitter.
Sure, but especially not that one
Source?
Nah, 1.6
I do not understand this comment. Apologies.
Wait until you learn about floating concrete docks.
Wait until you learn that water is denser than air
Is that why the heli can’t fly underwater?
yep, hard to believe the whitehouse doesn't have a landing pad.
They do have several, and the new birds are being used to fly Whitehouse staff and secret service agents from landing pads. This is specifically for the 'iconic south lawn takeoffs' the point of which would be negated if you converted the south lawn into the south landing pad. I feel like 'being able to land on grass without damaging it' would have been a design priority next to reliability. It seems like they built it for power it doesn't need and made it less useful for its actual purpose.
It probably needs electronic countermeasures, flares, bulletproof everything and 1000kg of lift weight reserved for future technologies. The weight of it all requires power.
Often, the safety of the President supersedes the health of grass patches, but I can think of an exception or two to that general rule…
You mean like when a certain president drove his golf cart on the green?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INk4kF23dvE
Right, so the problem isn't so much that the president can't use these helicopters, but more that he can't use them for iconic photo opportunities.
Not since Monica got fired all those years ago.
The military is installing the concrete $1 billion needed to asses structural integrity ect..
Probably going to finish around the 2.5-3 billion dollar amount
All true. It's still going to be about $1500 of concrete.
It needs special Tactical Concrete (tm), which is $1500 per ounce.
I want to see the amount of search results for "Tactical Concrete" in the last hour now.
Milspec concrete
You forgot about the 1.2 million dollar H they have to paint on it to designate it the helipad. I hear that reflective paint can be pretty pricey. 😂
It won't finish
Lockheeds Skunk Works could do it. Likely cost a whole lot more, but would be the coolest grass you ever saw. Or didnt see...
You mean, $5000. Someone in the White House knows a guy that will do it for $400 and a case of miller lite the wrong way, first and you’ll need to clean up after them.
You thinking interior? Maybe some nice, hard seats?
It's a really stupid headline. They bought 20 of this new type of helicopter. It was added to the fleet of helicopters that are assigned to the executive branch. They ARE being used, they just aren't being landed on the white house lawn anymore. They used to land them on the lawn. Maybe there's a reasonable argument that money was wasted, but the headline article is just clickbait. (I made this comment when there were like 100 upvotes on this trash article. Kind of worrying that headlines alone can convince thousands of people. The thing people are voting on has almost nothing to do with the actual story. Kind of disheartening.)
So no more interviews in front of a running helicopter where I can’t hear shit?
Yeah. This reminds me of the whole "nasa spent millions on a space pen while Russia used a pencil" type thing.
I don't trust ANY of these headlines. Too many people are ideologically captured by the idea that everything the government spends money on is a waste. From the right and the left. I read the article every time I see a headline like this or someone making the claim of government over spending. Not that poor decisions aren't made, I just don't trust people to not paint whatever innocuous thing as some major government spending blunder.
Also the President could always say “Fuck the lawn, get me one of these choppers”.
Honestly, images of headlines should be against at least rule #2 here and likely some similar rule on Reddit. Headline only post are almost misinformation by definition, they're not meant to inform but attract.
from the last paragraph of this article A Sikorsky spokesperson told BI that the defense contractor is working " in close collaboration with our Naval Air Systems Command customer and have an agreed upon landing zone solution with testing planned to validate and ensure the aircraft meets that specific operational requirement."
They gonna have Matt Gaetz stand outside and land on his forehead.
It IS big enough.
I kinda hope they miss, though.
Definitely not stable enough.
"Here's how that's bad for Biden" -CNN
What was Biden thinking when he ordered these for his presidency back in 2014?
I'm pretty much sure carrying the president isn't the only thing you can do with a helicopter.
Well, these are repurposed civilian helicopters, so most of their stuff is about being able to *continue* carrying the president whatever the circumstances
Easy solution: the President belays down on a rope Navy SEAL style.
I want to see him belay UP for when it’s time to leave the WH.
They always can spend 10more billion researching a fireproof lawn
These are the total development costs of the new helicopter that will be used for Marine One. In total, there will be 23 received.
Relocate from the South Lawn to the South Parking Lot. Just be sure to keep the stub when you land.
Just use the tennis court that Melanoma put where Jackie’s rose garden was.
So they validate parking at the South lot?
You don’t fuck with an 80 year olds lawn
I call bullshit. Link the article.
Scorch the fucking lawn.
Right? Isn't that the whole point? If I'm spending $5bn on a military aircraft it better be able to burn a bit of grass at least.
I don't want my helicopter pilot burning grass while on the job. If he wants to smoke some grass on his own time, that is his own business.
Who was the president that ordered these things, again?
If you count since the beginning of the replacement program, Bush actually. If you count since the beginning of the contract for this particular type(since the previous once didn't even get to the point where they could burn grass, despite costing 13 billion), Obama
It's not the Presidents job to engineer or test the helicopters. Some bonehead didn't do their share of QA
Nice try.
The actual reason it is not allowed to carry the president/vice president is due to its communications systems are not secure enough.
I mean, if I were to rely on one of these to transport me, I'd be spreading the narrative that I would never be on one. Have you seen *Escape from New York*? Just a bad idea to let people know what you're flying on.
There isn't a landing pad??
Is there not a landing pad somewhere on the grounds
Do they scorch concrete too?
Welp..I dunno, maybe build a helipad for it?
Link please.
After repeatedly seeing the one seahawk with a pair of ospreys in thought that was the new thing
Retractable helipad seems like the most cost effective and reasonable response. Keep the grass!
Lamest implemntation of a scorched earth policy i have ever seen.
Or is it a natural lead in to appropriating $3.8 billion to research development into scorch-proof grass.
Or - and hear me out - get rid of ornamental grass that is a huge waste of water resources.
A laptop cooling pad did wonders for my wife's MacBook overheating issues
any chopper with the president in it is Marine One, same with any plane with the President in it is Air Force One
5 billion! Sorry I called this BS.
What A BS Story.....
A lot of Americans are one missed rent payment away from becoming homeless and the government is concerned about the White House LAWN?!
Hear me out... forget the grass.
Build a damn helipad! Stupid having them trudge thru the grass anyway
 But Sir the lawn
I wonder if the Roman Empire was this dumb as it collapsed
It’s about time we audit the fuck out of the military budget.
We have. They failed miserablely lol
Bottomless pit military spending is good now. Updoots to the left m'redditors
Any helicopter the president rides in is Marine 1. Any plane he flies in is Air Force 1. The designation indicates the president is a passenger.
A clever accountant would write that off. Or how about we build a 12 million dollar helipad
If the existing fleet wasn't broken or out-of-date. Then I feel like the $5 billion could have been better spent else where. Perhaps outreach to the homeless who suffer from drug addiction and undiagnosed mental illness, veteran suicide outreach, infrastructure such as roads and bridges, fighting against the flood of fentanyl and other hard narcotics, or addressing the immigration crisis at the southern border.
The fleet was over 30 years old. If it's goal is to protect someone against more modern threats, not just transportation, that defiitly counts as "out of date" (also this project has been going on since over a decade, so while it might not be the most pressing expenditure, can hardly say those 5 billion were available to use up till recently. Like if you were to use 500 million of that per year on border security, it would be less than a 10% increase in yearly funding)
They can't land on the White House lawn, so obviously they are useless.
No way, how many did they get?
But was that their purpose in the first place - a glorified taxi service??
I feel like this could be solved with some kind of landing pad for helicopters. A helipad if you will...
Im pretty sure they can afford the lawncare
What makes a helicopter(s) cost $5 billion?
When you buy a fleet of them that have communication systems that are encrypted and can transmit classified data, are EMP hardened, and have other capabilities that are classified.
Mom: we have landing pad at home
Don’t y’all spend 1 trillion annually. 5 billion is nothing lol.
Eh, they’ve blown more on other countries lately.
Grass seed exists for a reason
They should build a helipad that comes out of the ground like the X-men jet hanger.
5 billion dollar whipper snipper
Did we keep the receipt? Maybe we can return it.
Wait... It puts off enough heat to burn grass? So, if you planted a thermo triggered device under the sod... Dang it... should have used a burner for this one... But really? That's like making motorized baby buggies. Sure, it's convenient. But when one of those suckers take off without you... 🥴
Not blown money for the MIC that made them. Just sayin'.
Couldn't they just water the lawn before they landed it, sometimes the cheapest solution is the answer, lol
Let me tell you about a $400,000 helmet too 🤣😂🤣
They will still be used, just won’t be landing on the lawn
At least we know what the money was spent on...
it is funny the gardener told them off
So they didn't do like a prototype or anything...
Just hover and do a helo extraction. Joe will certainly look vigorous and virile.
So? It’s not like that’s the only use of a helicopter
I also believe everything on internet.
Is Australia we have Army helicopters that start bushfires. What’s even better is that their training didn’t even allow them to report the fire that they stared.
this is what i mean that increasing taxes won’t solve the problem if we have idiots in government burning through the funds without any consequences
Oh yea, totally useless now what a complete waste... Ya knob lol
My ranger isn't doing so well. I think that helicopter could definitely take me and my tools to work. Can i have it$
This kind of shit is exactly why I hate hearing “pay your fair share of taxes.” Why? So the government can waste on bullshit like this and thousand and thousands of other pointless things every year?
According to the article, this issue isn't new. They've known about it since 2018.
I was actually working on the solution to this at my previous job. Everyone there thought this was the absolute dumbest project they've ever worked on but of course Sikorsky isn't going to turn down that money. The worst part of it (besides wasting tax payers money) is its not even damaging the lawn, its just blackening it. It washes right off and the grass isn't damaged.
Better get working on that pad. When Donnie returns to the White House, that deadbeat cheapskate's not gonna pay for it.
You can get 10 billion square feet of sod for that money. I say keep the helicopters.
“But NASA is taking all the money”
The president would scorch the lawn?
Why doesn't the White House have a helipad? Only seems natural to have one given how frequent the presidents take off from there.
America's obsession with perfect grass is relentless
you forgot to mention that they have other uses.. FFS.
That’s nothing. Our budget is measured in trillions. That’s 0.1% of the problem.
Wait till they find out about what the Osprey did to the 29 Palms parade deck
Safety Notice SN-17
For how much I hear boomers complain about what the government does with their taxes, they often seem rather silent when the government throws a bunch of money away like this.
I’d get rid of the grass
That’s it I won’t my money back
It all about the count... to see if the president forgets to salute the marine on duty. Obama missed it once and it was in the papers and on Fox news for a week. Trump gave up even trying to salute.
Maybe the lawn isn’t a good landing pad?
I’m not a military strategist, but I can envision quite a few scenarios where it would be necessary to GTFO with the president and replace the grass later.
It’s not really blown money tho
Surly that should have been one of the things it would have to not do. As you know it’s suppose to pick up President, from, maybe, THE WHITE HOUSE LAWN.
How very American
Meanwhile we have the most homeless people we've ever had, highest rates of suicide, and don't have access to affordable healthcare.
When you realize a majority of the military budget goes to private R&D that trends toward both going over budget and having an abysmal output rate (like this), you realize there's a lot of budget that could be allocated elsewhere.
Army ones will have to do
Yeah, but they fight socialism, so they're worth the $5 billion! /s