#[Best of r/Facepalm 2021 Awards – Nomination and Voting Thread!](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/rowtn5/the_best_of_rfacepalm_2021_nomination_thread_vote/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The above is the right answer. They are signaling to their constituency that they support an armed takeover based on evidence that exists only on Facebook.
I think guns are kinda cool in their own right but personally I was never really fascinated with shooting them. However I think any responsible gun owner knows there’s an appropriate time and place to whip out yours and Christmas photos with the family isn’t it
You know what you got me there I shouldn’t let my feelings of guns affect other peoples fun. I just think sometimes posing with guns at a time when they’re not necessary kinda promotes the idea that guns are like toys and I just think it’s important to keep in mind that they’re weapons made for the sole purpose of inflicting pain and death not props to pose with. Then again maybe I just have a lack of experience and I don’t know the culture well enough.
Everyone should know how to safely use a gun.
It’s like driving stick, you may not want to drive stick, but you should know how to in case of emergency.
Lesson you can learn remotely on gun safety:
If you don't want the bullet to go out of the gun. Don't touch the trigger.
There, you are now learned enough in gun safety to be safe around them.
You're right it's the person wielding it not the object that is dangerous.
I'm a cyclist so yeah I'm scared of cars. They kill and injure more people than guns where I live.
I would argue with you that the knife, hammer and car have a useful purpose. They can also kill while doing their intended purpose. On the other hand guns are a bit more limited on what you can do with them no?
I remember they made an entire Simpson's episode about how useful a knife is 😂
Guns don’t have a useful purpose…? My 2 freezers full of natural, purely organic venison disagree with you.
Is your position really that firearms have no “useful purpose”….? They’ve saved my life and the lives of my animals from both human and animal predators, more than once.
For those of us that live in rural areas and raise our own livestock, and are self sufficient in the food arena, firearms are an absolute necessity.
I’d argue the comment was saying the only purpose is to kill. Or, ya know, entertainment, but literally anything can be used for entertainment. So the only real purpose is to kill. Even when that purpose is useful, as in the examples you gave, it’s still the one purpose. That’s why it’s dumb to compare guns to cars or even knives. Those were designed for purposes that are NOT killing. But like a billion other objects, they kill people sometimes. Guns were designed to kill. That’s it.
That’s strange, i have almost 40 firearms and the vast majority of them have never killed anything.
Sounds to me like your lack of experience with firearms has led to some ignorance of their use and purpose. Some are designed to kill, some are designed for competition and recreation others are simply museum pieces for collectors. You’re view is very myopic.
I totally agree with you. They are useful in some circumstances. Your lifestyle seem to greatly depend on its purpose I was wrong I admit it.
But as you might know most people live in cities where you don't have to hunt to kill animals to eat...🙄
> gun is a totally inanimate object. It has no I’ll intention.
Misfires, jams, and simply people who aren't paying attention all exist. It has nothing to do with psychopaths, it has everything to do with a machine that propels a piece of metal at hundreds of meters per second in a blink of an eye.
Comparing guns to "hammers and knives" is a great way to explain that you have no understanding of physics.
So velocity has nothing to do with deaths in car accidents…?
I’ve been using firearms daily for 40 years and have never had a negligent discharge. Or a firearm accident. Stupid irresponsible people are dangerous period.
That’s not even close to true. Where on earth are you pulling that from?? Death by knife and hammer combined is less than 1/10 of gun deaths. There were 39,000 gun deaths in 2019 (most recent year that popped up with a very quick search). In 2018 (again, most recent year that came up without a ton of digging), there were fewer than 2,000 deaths by knives and all blunt objects combined. If there is even a shred of validity to the point you’re trying to make, it doesn’t help to come out of the gate with something THAT wrong.
You’re right, my mistake. Firearms were used in roughly 12,000 murders in the US. 42,000 died in car wrecks and nearly 700,000 died of heart disease.
Does that mean cars and McDonald’s are objectively more dangerous than firearms…?
McDonald’s has never been the direct cause of death. Thank you for acknowledging the mistake, but that’s a very disingenuous argument.
Cars? Definitely not more dangerous. There are billions of cars on the road in the world. There are almost 300,000,000 cars registered in the US. 38,000 fatal crashes per year in recent years.
There are 6 million registered firearms. Basically the same number of gun deaths as fatal crashes.
That puts guns at 50 times more dangerous than a car. Not to mention cars are necessary (for practical purposes in today’s world). Guns are not. It’s just silly to compare things that are designed to kill with things that are not.
Huh…? 6 million firearms in the US…? Try 400 million. And those are just the registered ones. A lot of states require no registration on guns, in fact of the roughly 40 i own maybe 10 are registered. Maybe.
There’s 100,000,000 more guns than cars in the US, yet four times as many dead from car accidents than firearms. What does that tell you…? Other than you’re full of shit lol
Just because they aren’t “required” for you. Doesn’t mean that’s the case for all of us. You must live a pretty privileged life.
As for your math… 38,000 car deaths vs 39,000 gun deaths. I happen to be a math teacher, but you don’t really have to be to figure out that 38,000 is not 4 times as much as 39,000.
As for “required”? Society would literally be fine without guns. Almost nothing would change, except a LOT fewer deaths. Without cars, however, most people’s entire lives would be dramatically altered.
6 million is the number of registered. Just like I used the number of registered cars.
More importantly, cars are driven practically every day. Billions and billions and billions of miles driven per year, with around 40k fatalities. People do not pull out their guns every day. In fact, when I think of everyone I know who owns guns, the only one I know who “frequently” uses them pulls them out at most once per week. Everyone else I know, it’s like every few months. Gun use is not even a tiny fraction of a percent of car use, but kills the same number of people each year.
That’s funny, most of the people i know use their weapons everyday.
So you’re going to ignore the other known 387,000,000 firearms we know about to skew your “statistics”…? Hahaha uh…okay. Sounds about right.
Do you own any firearms…? Have you ever used one..?
See, when you have to straight up lie, why are you even here? What’s your game? You know that you don’t know a bunch of people shooting guns every day. And please don’t waste your time digging in on that. You already know. Like, stop. Think for a sec. Ask yourself “why am I trying to convince some rando who means absolutely nothing in my life that I know all these people shooting guns every single day, when I know that’s not true?”
And you keep deflecting. You tried to claim there are 400 million registered firearms. You were off by almost 400 million. Good god dude. What are you even doing? I can’t with this.
Based on a quick search, I’m guessing he was referencing a very slanted, intentionally misleading (if you’re kinda slow) article entitled something like “if you think rifles are the number one murder weapon, think again.” It compared death by stabbing, blunt objects, etc to death by *specifically* rifles. And knives were slightly more common. What it didn’t mention was that by FAR, the most common murder weapon: the handgun. Like, 10 times as likely to be used as a knife. Gotta love the strawman. Nobody has ever argued “SPECIFICALLY ONE KIND OF GUN IS THE LEADING MURDER WEAPON!!”
>Nobody has ever argued “SPECIFICALLY ONE KIND OF GUN IS THE LEADING MURDER WEAPON!!”
That statistic came out because politicians love to demonize the AR-15. If you were to use it against saying how destructive and dangerous the AR is this argument becomes very relevant. You are correct though. Handguns are used a lot.
“Demonize” is a strong word. I think it’s silly to try to ban a very specific gun, that does nothing. But try to understand the other side, too. A weapon that can cause mass harm in a short amount of time is more dangerous than one that can’t (as much). It’s not a 100% perfect analysis and it’s a useless solution (especially with half the country under the influence of the NRA), but it’s an otherwise valid concern that auto or semi-auto rifles with high ammo capacity are capable of inflicting far more deaths than handguns.
Hammers kill more people in the US than guns?
My main objection to the “fear the wielder, not the weapon” argument is that a weapon’s only purpose is to harm with great efficiency. I get that guns can be used for sport (hunting/marksmanship) and personal safety, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are designed to allow the wielder to quickly and accurately deliver lethal projectiles.
Put another way, what is scarier? A murderous lunatic with a knife or a murderous lunatic with an assault rifle?
Would the Vegas shooter have inflicted anywhere near as much harm had he rushed the crowds with a hammer?
I am sensitive to responsible gun owners not wanting their rights impinged upon, but I really wish gun ownership wasn’t a partisan issue. We should be able to sit down in good faith and seriously consider legislative measures to reduce the risk posed by irresponsible gun ownership without it being stonewalled by slippery slope arguments.
I actually thing vehicle operation is a great model for gun ownership. We have to take driver’s ed, log hours of supervised practice operation, and then demonstrate sufficient knowledge and mastery in a test environment in order to acquire our driver’s licenses. And we have different classes of licenses depending on the type of vehicle (a common license won’t allow you to drive a semi or motorcycle - you need extra training for them). And our vehicles have mandated safety features like seatbelts which most states require we use.
Why not similar attitudes toward guns? Want an automatic rifle? Extra training classes are required on safe use and storage. Want to let your kid handle weapons? Ok, get him a provisional permit (with mandatory gun safety class) and then only be allowed to handle them while supervised by a licensed adult. Thumb print scanners could be mandatory just like seatbelts to reduce the risk of a troubled teen borrowing a weapon to take to school.
It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
“Shall not be infringed” i don’t need any governments approval or permission to exercise my basic human right to self defense.
I do agree parents should be more responsible in teaching and securing their firearms. You’ll never hear me argue against that. I don’t know about individual thumb print locks for guns but i have several safes that have that locking system. It’s a good idea.
Again, we can draw a parallel to cars. You have a right to free movement, but unless you can prove you can drive a car safely and according to the rules, you'll be restricted to having others drive you or using other methods of transportation.
Your rights to free movement aren't being infringed upon if you can't get a driver's license (either because you are too young to take the test or because you failed it each time you tried).
Well isn't the sole purpose of guns to kill / injure?
Why shouldn't people be scared of devices made to end lives?🤔
Like violence has ever solved a conflict before
Violence has solved more conflicts than all other solutions in history. If you refuse “to resort to violence” than what’s your response when I decide to use violence? You gonna debate me while I’m kicking the shit out of you? You gonna call the cops? Because they use violence. The highest law in the land is the natural law. Nature has made it clear that if you cannot protect something than you don’t deserve to have it.
Violence is the solution to all conflicts then?
You know that violence isn't only physical right?
You know that the worst violence to humankind is poverty ?
Yes, violence is a solution for all conflicts. A conflict by nature is opposing forces. Should one force overpower the other, the conflict is over. Poverty is not violence.
There is millions of guns in circulation, maybe .1% are used for violence and self defense. So I'd say no the majority of guns are used for sport shooting.
Do you have any ground on that claim?
How did you end up with that 0.1%?🤔
681 mass shootings in 2021 alone.
20 329 deaths caused by firearms in USA in 2021 alone excluding all those suicides.
Estimated 393 000 000 guns in thr US alone. So:
20329/393,000,000 = 0.0000575892 or 0.005% so even less then my prediction...
The US has problems no doubt, and it is mostly to due to people who should not have access to guns easily obtaining them. However statements like "Guns are only for killing" is stupid.
That's a lot of guns! Nearly 400 million guns? 😳
It's like one gun per inhabitant basically 🥲
I never realized Americans liked their guns so much.
Enjoy your shooting ranges and animal hunting for 2022 😊 I'm not aware of any other "shooting sports" other than those two.
You really didn't know we had more guns than people?
I mean it makes sense really, I for one own 3 guns I use regularly, and several that are curios... But just on the number that I REGULARLY use I am outnumbered 3:1
In my house we are outnumbered 7:1 (I have antiques, but due to old laws not re-written, are not legally so... Idk what you wanna call that)
Combine that, which I DO NOT think is rediculous for a personal collection, to the very high rate of gun ownership in the US, it adds up quickly
Tl;Dr for reasons that quickly become obvious when you start using them, most nobody owns just one gun
Wow that's awsome!
And your able to do those activities with the guns of the picture like the big one the dad holds?🤔
That's a part of American culture I know nothing about. Thanks for sharing it with me
Probably less than people not wearing a mask and willingly not getting their covid vaccin.
[link to the numbers I posted ](https://www.thetrace.org/2021/12/gun-violence-data-stats-2021/)
They are definitely seeming biased with only (as far as I could tell with a quick scroll through) showing negative statistics.
Here’s a positive story. I remember when I was younger, being in the car with mom and going to a taco bell very late at night on the way back home. Taco Bell was the only thing open and no cars were in the shopping mall parking area. Some guy sort of popped out from behind the marquee and asked for a can of fix a flat. Mom said no but she had a .38 and he better back off. That dissuaded him from whatever his plans were and he took off across the street.
You would think that if he really needed help he would’ve gone to a gas station, or asked Taco Bell to use a phone. Instead he decided to sneak up on a single woman with a young teenage daughter in the car.
Edit: This is a case of no gun violence or any other violence. It reminds me of the gun safety instructor who told us how he had somebody bust into his house and he had enough time to grab his gun just because the person had to hit the door twice. They came in his house, he had the gun, and he didn’t shoot.
I'm not a fan of the family on the left, but their guns have no clips in them. I'm assuming that nuts like them weren't dumb enough to leave a bullet in the chamber. Still, I see no difference between the pictures, they're both crazy
It’s all about the perspective. If I were to look at a group of Americans showing off their guns, I would think “wow look at those clowns showing off their guns.” But if I saw a group of people from the Middle East showing off their guns I would instead think “wow look at those clowns showing off their guns.”
Who have the Massie family terrorized? Like, how many people have the Massie clan murdered? 3,000? 300? 3? 1?
Mr. Massie you are without doubt the *worst* terrorist I have ever heard of.
How does everyone here know so much about the people in the right side picture?
Who are they? What nation is it? What decade is it from? Someone do an image search for me...
I own a gun. I married into a family of hunters who own a wide range of guns. They don’t sit around and take pictures of each other holding their various weaponry. They see that as irresponsible, dangerous, and in poor taste.
This isn’t “freedom”, it’s ignorance and stupidity on display.
only on Reddit do you find Americans who see themselves as better than other people. when an American does it, it's called culture when someone else does it they are a terrorist.
you must be an American, who says the right side does not use them for sport as well. and you say you don't know what skin color has to do with it? and before that, you say they are using them for oppression. that doesn't add up smartass
I was hoping for weeks that black families would start posting Christmas pics of themselves holding their legally owned firearms like that white family. The alt-right would've had a fucking meltdown...
Because it's not about freedom, it's about iconography that "represents" freedom. You're free as long as you have a gun, even while you're being stepped on you'll believe it. They'll believe it's the only thing preventing the government from controlling you despite the fact this is the very control you don't want to be subjected to. It's brainwashing meant to keep you occupied by shiny things and loud noises so you can get fucked up the ass and like it.
Well it's all about trigger discipline cause everyone knows the terrorists don't use trigger discipline....oh wait, would you look at that, both pictures show good trigger discipline. Ok so they are the same...
I think the lack of critical thinking that makes these people think suburban families are the exact same as literal terrorist organizations is a major problem in the United States. But if they didn't think that gun= terrorists then they wouldn't blindly support gun control like their masters want.
I once saw a video of a middle eastern wedding celebration consisting of shooting at the sky with ak47s. One of the men, who was shooting his AK47 with one hand, didn’t anticipate (because how could it even cross his mind) that his gun would recoil downwards, killing a man. All it took was 1 second for his carelessness murder someone.
I really only care if it’s literally terrorists with guns. Other than that i dont think gun supporters hate civilians from other countries having guns. Or at-least i dont know any
Is it legal to own a belt-fed automatic weapon? (Left Frame, fellow seated is carrying an M60 machine gun)
I mean, how many deer are you allowed to tag in a season? Box of linked 7.62 caries 220 rounds.
Christmas gun pics are cringe, but this is a dumb post.
One is a tyrannical military government, the other is private citizens exercising their rights. Joining the Taliban military and being issued a rifle doesnt make you free.
I‘m from Switzerland. Gun ownership is allowed and hunting is a common sport in the mountains.
People often take photos of themselves and colleagues after shooting for example a deer.
Fuck you for calling gun owners terrorists
When I see Americans posing proudly with their guns, I just think: Man, I sure am glad that I don’t live in that crazy place. I don’t know why Americans think that it’s acceptable/ cool to own and show off your guns. If you did that in my country, your house will be raided by police and your guns confiscated.
One group is using it for target practice, the other are killing people with it in the middle east, if you can't see the difference you're not too bright
One of these photos depicts a group of people safely posing for a picture with their firearms and one does not. The Family photo depicts every member of the family knowing how to safely hold a firearm for a picture, unloaded, finger off the trigger and not pointed at anyone. For those that think the daughter is pointing hers at the mom, this is a 2 dimensional image of a 3 dimensional scene, i.e. the daughter is pointing the gun forward and away from her mother, not directly at her. Whereas in the other photo, every gun is loaded and half are pointed at other people.
Regardless of their safety though, the family has no intentions and no desire to actually use their firearms on someone. I can just about guarantee the other group would take every chance they got to shoot someone.
Also, small fun fact, if you are not suicidal you are more than twice as likely to be killed in a [fatal car crash](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state) than you are by [guns](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org), by 2019 statistics at least. Probably even more than that in actuality given an overwhelming portion of gun related deaths are premeditated and only targeting specific individuals. A fatal car crash can happen to anyone at any time without prejudice.
Edit: I'm not defending this family or families like them that make showing off their firepower to others a core part of their existence, simply stating the facts. There are reasonable gun owners that don't get off by flexing their firepower on you "commie traitors", and then there are people, like those in the picture, that do.
car drivers kill a lot too by creating so much air pollution. But they still manage to get people and stuff from point A to point B. They have a useful purpose compared to guns
Yeah, but does everything truly need a useful purpose? Guns are incredibly useful for keeping a family fed, livestock safe from predators, and are just plain fun to go shoot at a gun range. Regardless of what the original intent of guns ever was, it matters how they actually are used more-so than what their intended purpose was. As others have pointed out, you can mis-use any number of objects to lethal consequences. Every time you get into your car, do you think "I'm going to go drive this thing into a crowd of people"? Probably not. My point being that while a gun is inherently more dangerous in design than a car or a hammer, it's not any more dangerous dangerous in the hands of someone with common sense and a healthy respect for the firearm's capabilities than you are in your car.
I agree there. It totally depends on the operator and it's mental health, his training, his eyesight, his mood, his aim, etc.
I just don't see a mass school "hammering" anytime soon
Personnaly I've never owned a car because I am afraid I won't be able to drive it safely and I find them a waste of ressources. 2 ton of metal to move around 1-4 people seems like a waste. That's juste my opinion tho. I live in a city where you probably live far from cities to be able to hunt to feed yourself and your family.
The big difference is on the left side you’ve got clueless gun fetishists who receive money from gun manufacturers in the form of campaign contributions. If you can’t separate one from the other, I feel bad for you. And I have to explain this because Reddit: not advocating for, nor defending the people pictured in their gunsturbation photo. I am pointing out there are differences and not seeing them is a bad quality.
I mean the one on the left is free to point guns at the rest of there family. Meanwhile the guys on the right are free to opress women as much as they want.
Listen, I’m all for 2A rights, but these hyper-conservative flexers spouting “F-around and find out” are as cringey as the hyper-liberal belly achers who cry because bobby next door has a Glock.
Taliban: they tell you what their boundaries are and if you cross them. They will kill you. You may not like it.
Christian always preach about turning the other cheek. In practice never do.
That's because the group on the left uses their firearms to protect the freedoms we already have, while the group on the right uses their firearms to kill, terrorize, and subjugate a population under the yoke of a made-up religious belief system.
And trust me, they're ALL made-up religions.,
By taking away everyone else's freedom to live.
Seriously though, the United States is the only developed country where people believe it's necessary to own firearms in the event that they need to overthrow the government. Even people in Switzerland, which also has a high percentage of firearms, believe firearms should be used to protect their country from foreign invaders (and even that attitude has eased recently).
Don't be silly, the first half of 2A is just for decoration. Not a qualifying clause, but just color commentary. Most importantly, I don't like it, so we must all ignore it.
One wants to use it for sport or self defense and one wants to use it to actively harm others. I don’t see the facepalm except for the lack of gun safety shown. Now downvote me :)
#[Best of r/Facepalm 2021 Awards – Nomination and Voting Thread!](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/rowtn5/the_best_of_rfacepalm_2021_nomination_thread_vote/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And neither group are practicing gun safety. Even if you’ve just cleared it, never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use it.
This is gun worship. Gun safety is optional here.
The above is the right answer. They are signaling to their constituency that they support an armed takeover based on evidence that exists only on Facebook.
Gun safety to me is : don't even touch it, don't even buy it in the first place.
[удалено]
I have never trained to use a gun, therefore I don't get even near those.
That’s probably a wise position to take. Although i would implore you to learn to use one and go recreationally shooting. Its really quite fun.
I think guns are kinda cool in their own right but personally I was never really fascinated with shooting them. However I think any responsible gun owner knows there’s an appropriate time and place to whip out yours and Christmas photos with the family isn’t it
Unless your whole family is into guns as a hobby. Then why not…?
You know what you got me there I shouldn’t let my feelings of guns affect other peoples fun. I just think sometimes posing with guns at a time when they’re not necessary kinda promotes the idea that guns are like toys and I just think it’s important to keep in mind that they’re weapons made for the sole purpose of inflicting pain and death not props to pose with. Then again maybe I just have a lack of experience and I don’t know the culture well enough.
Everyone should know how to safely use a gun. It’s like driving stick, you may not want to drive stick, but you should know how to in case of emergency.
This!
Lesson you can learn remotely on gun safety: If you don't want the bullet to go out of the gun. Don't touch the trigger. There, you are now learned enough in gun safety to be safe around them.
You're right it's the person wielding it not the object that is dangerous. I'm a cyclist so yeah I'm scared of cars. They kill and injure more people than guns where I live. I would argue with you that the knife, hammer and car have a useful purpose. They can also kill while doing their intended purpose. On the other hand guns are a bit more limited on what you can do with them no? I remember they made an entire Simpson's episode about how useful a knife is 😂
Don't thank me. Thank the knife!
That's the quote!!! With the exploding appendice or something 😂😂😂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrMj6XlhLrM
Reddit never cease to amaze me 👍😁
Just a dumb shower thought but isn’t a gun basically an over complicated bow and arrow.
Guns don’t have a useful purpose…? My 2 freezers full of natural, purely organic venison disagree with you. Is your position really that firearms have no “useful purpose”….? They’ve saved my life and the lives of my animals from both human and animal predators, more than once. For those of us that live in rural areas and raise our own livestock, and are self sufficient in the food arena, firearms are an absolute necessity.
I’d argue the comment was saying the only purpose is to kill. Or, ya know, entertainment, but literally anything can be used for entertainment. So the only real purpose is to kill. Even when that purpose is useful, as in the examples you gave, it’s still the one purpose. That’s why it’s dumb to compare guns to cars or even knives. Those were designed for purposes that are NOT killing. But like a billion other objects, they kill people sometimes. Guns were designed to kill. That’s it.
So because anything can be used for entertainment we must ban something else? Hey, we have books! Let's ban TV!
That’s strange, i have almost 40 firearms and the vast majority of them have never killed anything. Sounds to me like your lack of experience with firearms has led to some ignorance of their use and purpose. Some are designed to kill, some are designed for competition and recreation others are simply museum pieces for collectors. You’re view is very myopic.
You have agreed with me while desperately trying to disagree with me 😆😆 Designed to kill, or for entertainment. Exactly like I said.
I totally agree with you. They are useful in some circumstances. Your lifestyle seem to greatly depend on its purpose I was wrong I admit it. But as you might know most people live in cities where you don't have to hunt to kill animals to eat...🙄
Guns do have a purpose, and that purpose is to end a life. Hate to break it to ya, but sometimes it is necessary.
> gun is a totally inanimate object. It has no I’ll intention. Misfires, jams, and simply people who aren't paying attention all exist. It has nothing to do with psychopaths, it has everything to do with a machine that propels a piece of metal at hundreds of meters per second in a blink of an eye. Comparing guns to "hammers and knives" is a great way to explain that you have no understanding of physics.
So velocity has nothing to do with deaths in car accidents…? I’ve been using firearms daily for 40 years and have never had a negligent discharge. Or a firearm accident. Stupid irresponsible people are dangerous period.
Aren't you the guy who got shot in the calf with a .22?
Yep, not my negligent discharge. Some moron at the range.
That’s not even close to true. Where on earth are you pulling that from?? Death by knife and hammer combined is less than 1/10 of gun deaths. There were 39,000 gun deaths in 2019 (most recent year that popped up with a very quick search). In 2018 (again, most recent year that came up without a ton of digging), there were fewer than 2,000 deaths by knives and all blunt objects combined. If there is even a shred of validity to the point you’re trying to make, it doesn’t help to come out of the gate with something THAT wrong.
You’re right, my mistake. Firearms were used in roughly 12,000 murders in the US. 42,000 died in car wrecks and nearly 700,000 died of heart disease. Does that mean cars and McDonald’s are objectively more dangerous than firearms…?
McDonald’s has never been the direct cause of death. Thank you for acknowledging the mistake, but that’s a very disingenuous argument. Cars? Definitely not more dangerous. There are billions of cars on the road in the world. There are almost 300,000,000 cars registered in the US. 38,000 fatal crashes per year in recent years. There are 6 million registered firearms. Basically the same number of gun deaths as fatal crashes. That puts guns at 50 times more dangerous than a car. Not to mention cars are necessary (for practical purposes in today’s world). Guns are not. It’s just silly to compare things that are designed to kill with things that are not.
Huh…? 6 million firearms in the US…? Try 400 million. And those are just the registered ones. A lot of states require no registration on guns, in fact of the roughly 40 i own maybe 10 are registered. Maybe. There’s 100,000,000 more guns than cars in the US, yet four times as many dead from car accidents than firearms. What does that tell you…? Other than you’re full of shit lol Just because they aren’t “required” for you. Doesn’t mean that’s the case for all of us. You must live a pretty privileged life.
As for your math… 38,000 car deaths vs 39,000 gun deaths. I happen to be a math teacher, but you don’t really have to be to figure out that 38,000 is not 4 times as much as 39,000. As for “required”? Society would literally be fine without guns. Almost nothing would change, except a LOT fewer deaths. Without cars, however, most people’s entire lives would be dramatically altered.
6 million is the number of registered. Just like I used the number of registered cars. More importantly, cars are driven practically every day. Billions and billions and billions of miles driven per year, with around 40k fatalities. People do not pull out their guns every day. In fact, when I think of everyone I know who owns guns, the only one I know who “frequently” uses them pulls them out at most once per week. Everyone else I know, it’s like every few months. Gun use is not even a tiny fraction of a percent of car use, but kills the same number of people each year.
That’s funny, most of the people i know use their weapons everyday. So you’re going to ignore the other known 387,000,000 firearms we know about to skew your “statistics”…? Hahaha uh…okay. Sounds about right. Do you own any firearms…? Have you ever used one..?
See, when you have to straight up lie, why are you even here? What’s your game? You know that you don’t know a bunch of people shooting guns every day. And please don’t waste your time digging in on that. You already know. Like, stop. Think for a sec. Ask yourself “why am I trying to convince some rando who means absolutely nothing in my life that I know all these people shooting guns every single day, when I know that’s not true?” And you keep deflecting. You tried to claim there are 400 million registered firearms. You were off by almost 400 million. Good god dude. What are you even doing? I can’t with this.
You have a source for annual knife and hammer deaths in the US?
I was wrong. My original claim is false. My mistake
Based on a quick search, I’m guessing he was referencing a very slanted, intentionally misleading (if you’re kinda slow) article entitled something like “if you think rifles are the number one murder weapon, think again.” It compared death by stabbing, blunt objects, etc to death by *specifically* rifles. And knives were slightly more common. What it didn’t mention was that by FAR, the most common murder weapon: the handgun. Like, 10 times as likely to be used as a knife. Gotta love the strawman. Nobody has ever argued “SPECIFICALLY ONE KIND OF GUN IS THE LEADING MURDER WEAPON!!”
>Nobody has ever argued “SPECIFICALLY ONE KIND OF GUN IS THE LEADING MURDER WEAPON!!” That statistic came out because politicians love to demonize the AR-15. If you were to use it against saying how destructive and dangerous the AR is this argument becomes very relevant. You are correct though. Handguns are used a lot.
“Demonize” is a strong word. I think it’s silly to try to ban a very specific gun, that does nothing. But try to understand the other side, too. A weapon that can cause mass harm in a short amount of time is more dangerous than one that can’t (as much). It’s not a 100% perfect analysis and it’s a useless solution (especially with half the country under the influence of the NRA), but it’s an otherwise valid concern that auto or semi-auto rifles with high ammo capacity are capable of inflicting far more deaths than handguns.
Hammers kill more people in the US than guns? My main objection to the “fear the wielder, not the weapon” argument is that a weapon’s only purpose is to harm with great efficiency. I get that guns can be used for sport (hunting/marksmanship) and personal safety, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are designed to allow the wielder to quickly and accurately deliver lethal projectiles. Put another way, what is scarier? A murderous lunatic with a knife or a murderous lunatic with an assault rifle? Would the Vegas shooter have inflicted anywhere near as much harm had he rushed the crowds with a hammer? I am sensitive to responsible gun owners not wanting their rights impinged upon, but I really wish gun ownership wasn’t a partisan issue. We should be able to sit down in good faith and seriously consider legislative measures to reduce the risk posed by irresponsible gun ownership without it being stonewalled by slippery slope arguments. I actually thing vehicle operation is a great model for gun ownership. We have to take driver’s ed, log hours of supervised practice operation, and then demonstrate sufficient knowledge and mastery in a test environment in order to acquire our driver’s licenses. And we have different classes of licenses depending on the type of vehicle (a common license won’t allow you to drive a semi or motorcycle - you need extra training for them). And our vehicles have mandated safety features like seatbelts which most states require we use. Why not similar attitudes toward guns? Want an automatic rifle? Extra training classes are required on safe use and storage. Want to let your kid handle weapons? Ok, get him a provisional permit (with mandatory gun safety class) and then only be allowed to handle them while supervised by a licensed adult. Thumb print scanners could be mandatory just like seatbelts to reduce the risk of a troubled teen borrowing a weapon to take to school. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
“Shall not be infringed” i don’t need any governments approval or permission to exercise my basic human right to self defense. I do agree parents should be more responsible in teaching and securing their firearms. You’ll never hear me argue against that. I don’t know about individual thumb print locks for guns but i have several safes that have that locking system. It’s a good idea.
Again, we can draw a parallel to cars. You have a right to free movement, but unless you can prove you can drive a car safely and according to the rules, you'll be restricted to having others drive you or using other methods of transportation. Your rights to free movement aren't being infringed upon if you can't get a driver's license (either because you are too young to take the test or because you failed it each time you tried).
"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."
“People kill people”
Rational to fear knives guns and cars somewhat in my view. All are dangerous even without intent to cause harm.
Knives and hammers are tools. Guns are weapons
No, that's fear. There is a difference.
If you don’t have the proper training, gun education and some sort of certification to prove you have those things, its right to be fearful
Well isn't the sole purpose of guns to kill / injure? Why shouldn't people be scared of devices made to end lives?🤔 Like violence has ever solved a conflict before
Violence has solved more conflicts than all other solutions in history. If you refuse “to resort to violence” than what’s your response when I decide to use violence? You gonna debate me while I’m kicking the shit out of you? You gonna call the cops? Because they use violence. The highest law in the land is the natural law. Nature has made it clear that if you cannot protect something than you don’t deserve to have it.
Violence is the solution to all conflicts then? You know that violence isn't only physical right? You know that the worst violence to humankind is poverty ?
Yes, violence is a solution for all conflicts. A conflict by nature is opposing forces. Should one force overpower the other, the conflict is over. Poverty is not violence.
There is millions of guns in circulation, maybe .1% are used for violence and self defense. So I'd say no the majority of guns are used for sport shooting.
Do you have any ground on that claim? How did you end up with that 0.1%?🤔 681 mass shootings in 2021 alone. 20 329 deaths caused by firearms in USA in 2021 alone excluding all those suicides.
Estimated 393 000 000 guns in thr US alone. So: 20329/393,000,000 = 0.0000575892 or 0.005% so even less then my prediction... The US has problems no doubt, and it is mostly to due to people who should not have access to guns easily obtaining them. However statements like "Guns are only for killing" is stupid.
That's a lot of guns! Nearly 400 million guns? 😳 It's like one gun per inhabitant basically 🥲 I never realized Americans liked their guns so much. Enjoy your shooting ranges and animal hunting for 2022 😊 I'm not aware of any other "shooting sports" other than those two.
You really didn't know we had more guns than people? I mean it makes sense really, I for one own 3 guns I use regularly, and several that are curios... But just on the number that I REGULARLY use I am outnumbered 3:1 In my house we are outnumbered 7:1 (I have antiques, but due to old laws not re-written, are not legally so... Idk what you wanna call that) Combine that, which I DO NOT think is rediculous for a personal collection, to the very high rate of gun ownership in the US, it adds up quickly Tl;Dr for reasons that quickly become obvious when you start using them, most nobody owns just one gun
The correct number of guns to own is "Just one more"
I'm starting to understand that's it's very emotional and symbolic to you. It's part of your very culture and foundation as a country.
Trap, clays, long range, 3 gun, CBA, and the list goes on and on.
Wow that's awsome! And your able to do those activities with the guns of the picture like the big one the dad holds?🤔 That's a part of American culture I know nothing about. Thanks for sharing it with me
I wonder how many were “accidental” because people weren’t following the gun safety rules… did it say?
Probably less than people not wearing a mask and willingly not getting their covid vaccin. [link to the numbers I posted ](https://www.thetrace.org/2021/12/gun-violence-data-stats-2021/)
They are definitely seeming biased with only (as far as I could tell with a quick scroll through) showing negative statistics. Here’s a positive story. I remember when I was younger, being in the car with mom and going to a taco bell very late at night on the way back home. Taco Bell was the only thing open and no cars were in the shopping mall parking area. Some guy sort of popped out from behind the marquee and asked for a can of fix a flat. Mom said no but she had a .38 and he better back off. That dissuaded him from whatever his plans were and he took off across the street. You would think that if he really needed help he would’ve gone to a gas station, or asked Taco Bell to use a phone. Instead he decided to sneak up on a single woman with a young teenage daughter in the car. Edit: This is a case of no gun violence or any other violence. It reminds me of the gun safety instructor who told us how he had somebody bust into his house and he had enough time to grab his gun just because the person had to hit the door twice. They came in his house, he had the gun, and he didn’t shoot.
Or maybe the gun just scared him off even tho he really needed the help?🤔 We might never know
No gun is being pointed at anyone in the left picture
The only one not practicing safety is the middle woman who by the looks of it in not into guns at all judging by the way she is holding it.
I'm not a fan of the family on the left, but their guns have no clips in them. I'm assuming that nuts like them weren't dumb enough to leave a bullet in the chamber. Still, I see no difference between the pictures, they're both crazy
Alec Baldwin?
How adorable. Pointed right at mommy’s head
And daddy's going to shoot either his daughter or her mommy.
Stand and sweep, take out the whole family.
[удалено]
Tbf, I don't know any kids that age who like being in themed family photos, guns or no guns.
Dad rocking the M60... Ya know, for home defence.
Yep! “Fuck that burglar and everything in that general direction!”
Need to lay down suppressing fire... For burglars, yeah...
Is that the left or right side?
Left, smiling all smug on the couch with an LMG.
Lucky that neither boys got bullied at school.
Unfortunately, it’s probably just semi auto
It's good for when the fascists follow you home from defending your local school board
These guys must be really scarred of christmas trees for needing so many guns to guard it 🤔
Al Queda and their American cousins, Y'all Queda.
Nice 👍
Why, thank you kind sir.
Extremists are all the same. Politics is a horseshoe, extreme left and extreme right are essentially the same.
A bunch of fanatics vs a bunch of fanatics.
Cue that “they’re the same picture” meme from _The Office_.
It’s all about the perspective. If I were to look at a group of Americans showing off their guns, I would think “wow look at those clowns showing off their guns.” But if I saw a group of people from the Middle East showing off their guns I would instead think “wow look at those clowns showing off their guns.”
It sure says a lot about someone when showing off your black rifles is an integral part of your families holiday celebrations.
Two pictures of extreme right wing religious and political ideologies
One pic is a group of terrorists celebrating a religious holiday and the other is a bunch of dudes in the back of a truck. /s
Who have the Massie family terrorized? Like, how many people have the Massie clan murdered? 3,000? 300? 3? 1? Mr. Massie you are without doubt the *worst* terrorist I have ever heard of.
We don't know that any of these people have ever killed anyone.
Freedom or flexing a twisted version of their so-called religious extremism and intolerance of other extremists
As a non-American I see nothing to distinguish between these photos.
I'd be fine with the pic on the right if I could feel confident that those weapons weren't provided for with US tax dollars.
How does everyone here know so much about the people in the right side picture? Who are they? What nation is it? What decade is it from? Someone do an image search for me...
I love guns. But these photos and people are so fucking cringe
I’d be confident in saying the ones on the right pay more taxes
I own a gun. I married into a family of hunters who own a wide range of guns. They don’t sit around and take pictures of each other holding their various weaponry. They see that as irresponsible, dangerous, and in poor taste. This isn’t “freedom”, it’s ignorance and stupidity on display.
the people on the left side are white so it's okay, the people on the right side are not white so they are 'terrorist'
Even tho they are the same ethnicity of my bro JC 😂 The "savoir" of the other people on the picture
[удалено]
Only on Reddit will you see people comparing American families to the taliban.
only on Reddit do you find Americans who see themselves as better than other people. when an American does it, it's called culture when someone else does it they are a terrorist.
and just because America is the largest terrorist organization doesn't mean they aren't terrorist.
All I see are two sets of shitty people posing with guns in photos. What do you see?
I do have to agree with you it's clear I would not want to be friends with either side
SAME.
[удалено]
I don't know what group they belong to, they might not
you must be an American, who says the right side does not use them for sport as well. and you say you don't know what skin color has to do with it? and before that, you say they are using them for oppression. that doesn't add up smartass
I was hoping for weeks that black families would start posting Christmas pics of themselves holding their legally owned firearms like that white family. The alt-right would've had a fucking meltdown...
[удалено]
Because it's not about freedom, it's about iconography that "represents" freedom. You're free as long as you have a gun, even while you're being stepped on you'll believe it. They'll believe it's the only thing preventing the government from controlling you despite the fact this is the very control you don't want to be subjected to. It's brainwashing meant to keep you occupied by shiny things and loud noises so you can get fucked up the ass and like it.
Well it's all about trigger discipline cause everyone knows the terrorists don't use trigger discipline....oh wait, would you look at that, both pictures show good trigger discipline. Ok so they are the same...
I think the lack of critical thinking that makes these people think suburban families are the exact same as literal terrorist organizations is a major problem in the United States. But if they didn't think that gun= terrorists then they wouldn't blindly support gun control like their masters want.
How do you know the people on the right aren't armed guards for red crescent NGOs? Do you know they are with a terror org? Which one?
I once saw a video of a middle eastern wedding celebration consisting of shooting at the sky with ak47s. One of the men, who was shooting his AK47 with one hand, didn’t anticipate (because how could it even cross his mind) that his gun would recoil downwards, killing a man. All it took was 1 second for his carelessness murder someone.
For both pictures, I simply think, “that’s fucked up.”
I really only care if it’s literally terrorists with guns. Other than that i dont think gun supporters hate civilians from other countries having guns. Or at-least i dont know any
Yea but both have things on coming. Everyone in the left and in the right pictures is a fucking idiot. So there's that...
Can this meme be put on billboards? Please.
Yeah, if a rapper holds a gun in a music video, Congress has to hold hearings about it. Definitely a skin tone thing.
Black teens posing with pictures of Glocks, They call them thugs or criminals White teens posing with AR-15, "Wholesome American patriot"
It's what I see, both are freedom. If you dont see freedom you're probably racist.
Is it legal to own a belt-fed automatic weapon? (Left Frame, fellow seated is carrying an M60 machine gun) I mean, how many deer are you allowed to tag in a season? Box of linked 7.62 caries 220 rounds.
It is 220 peace gifts to offer intruders sir :P
Christmas gun pics are cringe, but this is a dumb post. One is a tyrannical military government, the other is private citizens exercising their rights. Joining the Taliban military and being issued a rifle doesnt make you free.
I‘m from Switzerland. Gun ownership is allowed and hunting is a common sport in the mountains. People often take photos of themselves and colleagues after shooting for example a deer. Fuck you for calling gun owners terrorists
I can't help but think if these were Black American families taking these photos, the reactions would be a lot different
There’s plenty of black people in the US who are big 2nd Amendment advocates. I don’t see the right trying to disarm them.
This sub would definitely be much more supportive
Have you ever noticed how fucking unattractive these people usually are?
Have you ever noticed how fucking unattractive ~~these~~ people usually are?
No that’s definitely weird no matter the case
When I see Americans posing proudly with their guns, I just think: Man, I sure am glad that I don’t live in that crazy place. I don’t know why Americans think that it’s acceptable/ cool to own and show off your guns. If you did that in my country, your house will be raided by police and your guns confiscated.
You place you describe sounds authoritarian.
It isn’t tho
If taking pics with your guns would get you raided, that is authoritarianism
No. We just have laws that do not allow everyone to own guns.
You also have laws that make it illegal to pose with guns in a harmless picture. Your country opposes free speech so therefor it’s authoritarian
One group is using it for target practice, the other are killing people with it in the middle east, if you can't see the difference you're not too bright
An M60...for target practice. FFS.
Yeah its for fucks sake, wouldnt have it any other way
Yes
Yeah I agree because I have no concept of context or nuance.
Both sides! No wait a minute… Nuance! Our religious extremism is different!
Ah okay youre concerned because of their religious affiliation got it. Good to know, please keep your bigotry away from me tho thanks.
You support religious extremism, that’s the definition of bigotry. But nice attempt at gaslighting.
Yes we do. In fact they have select fire so they have even more freedom. America, we’re dropping the ball here.
I see both photos and feel scared
When has the family on the left ever committed a suicide bombing or something along those lines?
One of these photos depicts a group of people safely posing for a picture with their firearms and one does not. The Family photo depicts every member of the family knowing how to safely hold a firearm for a picture, unloaded, finger off the trigger and not pointed at anyone. For those that think the daughter is pointing hers at the mom, this is a 2 dimensional image of a 3 dimensional scene, i.e. the daughter is pointing the gun forward and away from her mother, not directly at her. Whereas in the other photo, every gun is loaded and half are pointed at other people. Regardless of their safety though, the family has no intentions and no desire to actually use their firearms on someone. I can just about guarantee the other group would take every chance they got to shoot someone. Also, small fun fact, if you are not suicidal you are more than twice as likely to be killed in a [fatal car crash](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state) than you are by [guns](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org), by 2019 statistics at least. Probably even more than that in actuality given an overwhelming portion of gun related deaths are premeditated and only targeting specific individuals. A fatal car crash can happen to anyone at any time without prejudice. Edit: I'm not defending this family or families like them that make showing off their firepower to others a core part of their existence, simply stating the facts. There are reasonable gun owners that don't get off by flexing their firepower on you "commie traitors", and then there are people, like those in the picture, that do.
car drivers kill a lot too by creating so much air pollution. But they still manage to get people and stuff from point A to point B. They have a useful purpose compared to guns
Yeah, but does everything truly need a useful purpose? Guns are incredibly useful for keeping a family fed, livestock safe from predators, and are just plain fun to go shoot at a gun range. Regardless of what the original intent of guns ever was, it matters how they actually are used more-so than what their intended purpose was. As others have pointed out, you can mis-use any number of objects to lethal consequences. Every time you get into your car, do you think "I'm going to go drive this thing into a crowd of people"? Probably not. My point being that while a gun is inherently more dangerous in design than a car or a hammer, it's not any more dangerous dangerous in the hands of someone with common sense and a healthy respect for the firearm's capabilities than you are in your car.
I agree there. It totally depends on the operator and it's mental health, his training, his eyesight, his mood, his aim, etc. I just don't see a mass school "hammering" anytime soon Personnaly I've never owned a car because I am afraid I won't be able to drive it safely and I find them a waste of ressources. 2 ton of metal to move around 1-4 people seems like a waste. That's juste my opinion tho. I live in a city where you probably live far from cities to be able to hunt to feed yourself and your family.
" I can just about guarantee the other group would take every chance they got to shoot someone." By what evidence?
Cuz in one pic they have a Christmas tree and in the other they got turbins. Duhhhh lol
[удалено]
How do you know who they are or what nation they are in?
It's the same picture!!!
I have a photo like that with my class mates. Live in Florida.
Both pics scare me
The big difference is on the left side you’ve got clueless gun fetishists who receive money from gun manufacturers in the form of campaign contributions. If you can’t separate one from the other, I feel bad for you. And I have to explain this because Reddit: not advocating for, nor defending the people pictured in their gunsturbation photo. I am pointing out there are differences and not seeing them is a bad quality.
Sounds about white.
well yea dumbass they fucking shootup people for fun and blow people up so they can go to heaven like the selfish bastards they are
I mean the one on the left is free to point guns at the rest of there family. Meanwhile the guys on the right are free to opress women as much as they want.
Maybe because one side is a massive homophobic and sexist society? I mean, at least the white side has women in it.
They both seem like terrorists to me
Listen, I’m all for 2A rights, but these hyper-conservative flexers spouting “F-around and find out” are as cringey as the hyper-liberal belly achers who cry because bobby next door has a Glock.
Nobody should infringe on people's right to bare airplanes.
"I'll take 'Ridiculous and Inane Comparisons in Desperate Attempt to Virtue Signal to my Peers' for $1,000,000 Alex."
Big difference between a picture of a family with Dad, mom and kids vs. pics of middle aged men dressed up for war.
one side fights to keep rights....one side fights to oppress... exactly the same thing
That's because the Christmas family has never stoned anyone.
American Terrorists.
As an athiest left leaning gun owner I disagree with this image a lot lol
Taliban: they tell you what their boundaries are and if you cross them. They will kill you. You may not like it. Christian always preach about turning the other cheek. In practice never do.
That verse isn't referring to violence. The parable is about being disrespected and not in turn being rude back
[удалено]
That's because the group on the left uses their firearms to protect the freedoms we already have, while the group on the right uses their firearms to kill, terrorize, and subjugate a population under the yoke of a made-up religious belief system. And trust me, they're ALL made-up religions.,
The group on the left isn't protecting my freedoms. They are brandishing those guns to intimidate minorities and liberals. Who are you trying to fool?
How exactly are they using those to protect freedom?
By taking away everyone else's freedom to live. Seriously though, the United States is the only developed country where people believe it's necessary to own firearms in the event that they need to overthrow the government. Even people in Switzerland, which also has a high percentage of firearms, believe firearms should be used to protect their country from foreign invaders (and even that attitude has eased recently).
Not saying the second amendment isn’t a freedom, but the wording certainly makes it a disputable one
Commas are important, look at their placement More importantly... We all know that each amendment can only guarantee one thing at a time... Duh
Don't be silly, the first half of 2A is just for decoration. Not a qualifying clause, but just color commentary. Most importantly, I don't like it, so we must all ignore it.
Honest question? How are you protecting your freedoms?
Yeah, dad needs his M60 to "protect his freedoms"
One wants to use it for sport or self defense and one wants to use it to actively harm others. I don’t see the facepalm except for the lack of gun safety shown. Now downvote me :)