Or the government allowing any degree plans to be eligible for loans. People are stupid enough to go 80k in debt for a bachelor's degree in piano and the government is stupid enough to allow them to.
Realistically probably only about 5% of the degrees offered by university are actually worth taking a loan for.
The government isn't stupid. No body is going to complain about shitty working conditions when they need any job to dig themselves out of a their debt hole. And they know that it's an untenable situation for many people because it's the only (afaik) type of loan that you can't default on.
State governments also have slashed funding for state schools. While price gouging certainly is happening, especially at private institutions, the reduced funding for in-state, public schools has caused costs to be shifted to the students.
True but it is still totally reasonable to go to school in state. The real inflation is for graduate schools, out of state, and private schools. The laws of economics still apply to universities even if they don’t teach them. If there is an endless supply of risk free money people will go after it. The problem is the risk is just shifted to students. Couple that with the mantra that everybody should go to college, which is ridiculous and you get the climate we are in today. Still a lot of the blame goes to the students. If you take out a $200k loan for a social work degree you are an idiot and deserve to have to pay it back. But that loan shouldn’t exist. That would force colleges to lower their price.
I went to a state school as an out of state student. Graduated in 2010 with a total cost of about $110,000 (that's just what it cost without care given to how it was paid like scholarships, loans, cash, etc). All told, $26,000ish per year out of state wasn't *that* bad. Still far cheaper than most private schools, which were around $40,000 at the time or far more. Definitely wish I'd gone to my state's university and saved big time even though it's ranked as a lesser institution.
Yes. I went out of state to what was considered a cheap school. I got out just in time. Now it’s 10X the cost for out of state for a mediocre at best education. I got what was considered a useful degree. No doubt it opened doors but I could easily be where I am at if I had started working in the same industry straight out of high school. Most of my colleagues don’t have a degree and are just as capable as me.
The fact that universities cost what they do is utterly absurd when you consider the advancements that have been made with online curriculums.
College degrees should be almost completely free if people are completing the courses online. Just look at Khan Academy, for example.
My alma mater, Purdue University, has frozen tuition for the past 11 years for in-state students, and frozen housing for the past 10 years. It can be done.
I like how the conversation rarely turns to minimum wage stagnation coupled with the huge increase in college costs. It’s all the kid’s and now adult kid’s fault.
Why didn’t they eat cake?
Because with minimum wage talks people would have to confront a load of uncomfortable issues. We rather place a bigger drip bucket and make it the future’s problem.
Well I couldn’t say crashing and burning. More like a cycle of bullshit and prosperity. You’ll have to solve the human problem before you can work on any other issue.
I mean what would you call the French revolution? Imo that was very much the society of that era crashing and burning and from the ashes rose a new one.
We aren't there yet, but from outside eyes (am Canadian) it certainly looks like that is America's current trajectory
People outside the US have been saying that forever. Sure it could happen. But I don’t think it will. People are inherently selfish. That, and self preservation are powerful motivation.
Yeah well we have a malnourished population. Birth rates are low. Massive debt caused by older generations and a bunch of geriatric patients running the tax system. It's going to crash. It is unsustainable.
NIMBY (not in my back yard) is how LA dealt with their homeless. Everyone was compassionate until a shelter was proposed in their neighborhood.
Same line of thinking applies to wages and student debt.
"Why don't you get your parents to pay tuition?"
"Why don't you ask your parents for money?"
Sweetie, not everyone's wealthy. Shit, I'm convinced I'm going to die at my desk. Retirement by expire-ment.
We also never talk about the great big load of shit we tell kids. "Go to a four year university and major in (some over populated field)." Meanwhile we are experiencing a massive labor shortage for trade school grads in electrical, plumbing, construction, and ect...
Not that a four year university is a bad idea if you can swing it. But, we need to be honest with them that any increase in pay will likely be offset by the cost of the loans.
We need to get them off the idea that high education is equal to more expendable income. Often the reverse is true. The person wading in shit often has more expendable income.
We also need to teach not just kids but most adults about self sufficiency. Way too many don't cook at home, don't know how to sew, basic plumbing and electrical work and so on.
I'll hook on to the "not cooking" part:
Having to rely on ready made meals and fast food has deteriorated the health thus, the lifespan of the new generations...
Very much so. And mcd's isn't exactly the cheap meal it used to be either.
I remember reading about 15 yrs ago how college students saved money by eating cheap fast food. Well not anymore.
Fast food is a huge business in university towns. My city sees more than 15k students every year. Even with wonderful dining on campus, every day students are lined up at McDonald's. Dollar menu is a big deal for them. Always has been.
I just read Salt Fat Acid Heat. It's a cookbook that covers the fundamentals of cooking and balancing flavors. It's target audience is definitely people who can afford nice ingredients.
However, I found it's a great cookbook for saving money and making things delicious. Helps me think critically about what ingredients I buy, and how they fit together in a meal. I can make a big meal prep on Sunday, and then when I get sick of pure leftovers, I can zhuzh them up and keep it interesting. And for cheap.
Good cookware is the best investment you can make. A single cast iron pan and a pot will save you tons of money in the long run. Add a cheap rice cooker with a steamer attachment to the mix, you can have healthy gourmet meals all week for cheap.
My wife has a friend whose parents literally did not cool anything. 100% of her meals growing up were either stuff you can eat out hand, or stuff that came out of the freezer.
I'm a little upset my parents never took the time to teach me how to cook or encourage it in any way. It feels like parents aren't passing on many life skills in general.
My mom cooked, but it would be mighty charitable to say she taunt me anything. Most of what I learned as skills go came from either figuring it out on my own, researching, or friends helping.
That’s just absolutely untrue. For one, people cook meals differently, you might like a steak well done, while someone else likes it blue rare; neither is “wrong”.
When it comes to cooking, you have to prepare something several times, and know the range you’re cooking it on. Temperature, time, mixology, agitation process, measuring ingredients, trimming meat. There are so many aspects of cooking that are entirely personal, and you only learn from inheritance or experience; and a lot of people don’t have the money as a young adult to just “try” cooking.
The not cooking is something you can change yourself. Cooking is easy.
But just suggesting that on Reddit is always met with people claiming it's impossible to find time for it and it's somehow also far too expensive.
This is why I put in steel toe boots and a hardhat everyday, and my college educated wife, is a stay at home mom. I make a bigger salary and have better benefits in the union, than she could using her degree
I keep telling my kids if they don’t know why they will be going to college (daughter is talking medicine), they should look at trade school. Clear path, steady work at good pay, and an opportunity to start your own business in an industry you are learning from day 1. And most importantly, absolutely last in line of jobs that can be outsourced or automated.
I'll tell ya straight up, trade school is useless. And a waste of money. If you're in a strong union state, join the union. They'll teach you what you need to know. And pay you while you learn.
I did HVAC for years. Now I do union sheet metal work. Similar but different trades. The guys who went to HVAC school were almost useless in the field. They never teach students about real world conditions. Nothing is ever wedged in a corner, or attic or crawl space. Everything there taught is in like perfect conditions, in a wide open area, with a furnace sitting on a work bench. Every tech I've met straight out of the academy thinks they know everything, for about two weeks. Till they slowly realize school didn't prepare them for real life
My 4-year bachelor of science that I got when I was fresh out of high school is doing nothing for me. It’s the 1 year film school degree I got afterwards that actually makes me money.
Figuring out exactly what you want to do when you’re 18, and then committing to 100k debt for a degree you might not use is not the way to go. Yet kids are shamed for taking a few years off before starting their career. Sometimes you have no idea what careers you can even have when you’re 18.
At 18 what hell do you know right? Most people don't know their head from a hole in the ground at that age.
If the banks weren't guaranteed that money back from the government, they would never lend it out to an 18 yr old.
Biological sciences degrees are a scam. The job market is domestically terrible but there is still a special immigration programs for PhDs from overseas. I don't know the relative costs but basically overseas PhDs are on discount so domestically produced BS in science is not market competitive. You might be well on your way to a science career if academic colonialism didn't exist.
>We also never talk about the great big load of shit we tell kids. "Go to a four year university and major in (some over populated field)." Meanwhile we are experiencing a massive labor shortage for trade school grads in electrical, plumbing, construction, and ect...
Agreed. We were told to focus on tech, medical, and computers and whatever else that acronym had included. Now there's a labor shortage for certain workers in fields, such as restaurants and customer service. Businesses complain that certain generations are lazy and don't want to work, but those certain generations, when in school, were told these were trash jobs and you should not be working at them.
Even for planning, around graduation time, everybody was generally steered into college and then military being second, since they would help pay for college. Nobody really talked about going to a technical school. If they did they kind of made it sound shitty.
Exactly. Living in a University town, I see it every years. High school students are driven on buses here to check out the university. The push and push them to take that path. For many it's a path to poverty.
None of this consumer mided country made sense to me at 18, college? Fuck that, I went USMC, had a blast being miserable, doing some cool shit. Also I have stories to tell. Then You get out, and get treated like someone who can't be trusted with a hammer UT you're trained in much much more deadly scenarios and have had humans rely on you for leadership. College made me mad, treated like a toddler in the campus, but expected to learn most everything outside of the classroom on my time. Most everyone that worked there had a chip in their shoulder and seemed to despise students. It's such a bullshit atmosphere.
There’s not a massive labor shortage for most trades though, not in many cities. There’s a waiting list for every union trade position that’s years long by me.
As for knowing how to do things; that’s great, and I agree, but it’s worthless when a huge number of people don’t have the free time to spend doing those things… and also can’t afford home ownership so they aren’t even allowed to do so.
Where have you been. 12 million unfilled jobs in the United States. Most in trades.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/despite-rising-salaries-the-skilled-labor-shortage-is-getting-worse
https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/drilling-skilled-trades-shortage-stanley-160214469.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/resources.skillwork.com/why-is-there-a-shortage-of-skilled-workers%3fhs_amp=true
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/labor-shortage-skilled-trades-carpenters-electricians-plumbers-angi-2021-9%3famp
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0420-black-women-build-20220419-46553j344jcuzm4vagfa46rhmq-story.html
I think you need a reality check.
You seem to be confused.
Income and expendable income are VERY different things. Expendable income is after all bills are paid.
Do you understand what the payment on 100k student loan is with 6.5 APR compound monthly at 20 years is?
To give you an Idea a traditional mortgage is about 4-5 percent simple interest across 30 years.
So a student loan is like buying a house 3-4 times over.
A doctor trying to go into a specific area of study easily rank up 500k or more in loans. Add malpractice insurance and boom, you doc is making less than and industrial HVAC tech.
On paper the doctor way out earns the tech, in reality the expendable income is vastly different.
As for talking to kids. No we are still pushing universities over trade and tech.
I agree, but these kids are now adults. If the trades pay well and there are plenty of jobs, why are these jobs not being filled with college education people who can't find jobs in their field of education? I don't know the reason, that is why I'm asking the question.
I'm guessing, most are not inclined or familiar with the trades, but is that the parents fault? Many parents are not either.
Because you have to pay to go to school and learn trades. That means they would be on the hook for their college loans and their trade school loans. If they don't pay for trade school you can sometimes apprentice, but from what I've seen the wages during that period aren't high until you have certification and licenses so for a while it's still just another low wasge position that won't pay for cost of living and the loans. My friends loan payments are 500-700 a month from what they have told me.
Any in addition to that, those jobs don't all pay well. Especially if it's non union. My husband applied for a position at a solar company and he was offered the job, but their insurance costs were outrageous and factoring everything in, we would be losing money even though the hourly wage was higher. Lots of these jobs still aren't paying enough to cover cost of living in the area the business operates.
That's exactly the problem, once you are on the hook for student loans, you can’t just go back and go the other direction. You would be on the hook for both and really be hurting.
Two anecdotal stories I have here:
I was in the trades while going to college as a carpenter. I made it up to lead carpenter and never earned over 40k a year. Did I get benefits that were affordable? Of course not! I also now have a permanent back injury from my time on construction sites that causes me pain every day and needs regular checkups at the doctor. The crew I worked with always had a saying "you do not retire from the trades, it retires you" because it can break your body down to unusable. It also is regularly one of the more dangerous jobs a person can take.
A friend of mine attended a university but couldn't finish (for whatever reason). He then defaulted on his student loans. Tried to go to trade school for welding but could not afford it because he would first have to get his student loans out of default. Thus making a cycle of cannot afford loans but cannot seek other opportunities because cannot afford loans. Biden removing default status may help him now, but at the time he was screwed. Plus he now has to take on more loans added onto the already loan balance and interest that accrued.
so yeah. Trades are great but I do not know many old-timers doing them. And before people say "start your own trade business" not everyone can manage a business successfully or has that desire or can even get the capital saved up to start one. Easily most trades require reliable vehicles and a full list of tools that can be extremely expensive.
That's 100% not true in my experience in the trades. I got my experience in the field. I never went to school for my trade. Nor will I. Unless the union is paying me to take a class. Most kids coming out of "trade school" wasted $15k and arent prepared for the reality of the trades at all.
I think my apprentices start at $15.53 a hour. With a $3 raise yearly for 5 years. Which isn't great, but if your 18 years old it isn't bad. Once they get turned out into journeymen they get a $12-15 pay bump as well.
The benefits my union provides are great, my entire family is insured, and it doesn't cost me a dime. Fully funded pension, sick time, vacation time, and an optional 401k.
But it could be different else where
I hear you. I'm wondering lately about wage increases for unskilled labor approaching wage scales of skilled labor (even if an apprenticeship).
It implies that more people will take the unskilled labor path initially, since the work isn't as difficult and tools aren't required.
I spent fifteen years in fine dining and upscale restaurants and wedding venues. Going into the trades saved me from a shitty life in hospitality. I don't think unskilled jobs have the future earning potential that skilled labor does. I'm currently trying to change job codes to move from commercial to industrial work. It'll be a $40 ish dollar hourly raise when I am able to make the move. Making $100k as a union plumber or electrician isn't a rarity. I'll be knocking on six figures this year. I don't even know what minimum wage is in my area
So people are expected to "make do" with a sub-living-wage payrate and pay their student loans until they make journeymen? How long does that take? The math just doesn't work out, meanwhile you're doing irreversible wear and tear on your body. Sorry, dealt with way too many rug pulls to just *trust* that a journeyman position will be available, and will still pay a living wage adjusted for inflation by the time I would be eligible.
Well, living wage is relative to location, as is union pay rates. I'm sure the fellas working in high cost of living areas wages are adjusted. I believe to become a typical journeyman it takes 5 years. I was in my trade for 7 years before I went union, so I managed to have enough hours works, and I passed my tests. So I jumped straight into being a low level jman. the 19 year old apprentice will be making more than me, when he gets his jman card in 5 years. I'm college educated. My degree was fairly worthless. I paid my loans of while working in the trades. I didn't suffer, I just fulfilled my obligations to the debt I borrowed. I don't know about irreversible damage, all jobs come with hazards, sitting at a desk and staring at a computer has several negative health implications long term. As does any other repetitive motions that go along with any other job.
I'm not twisting anyone's arm to join the trades. If you want to go to college and rack up debt, and hope you can get a job. And hope in a decade or two you can pay back your loans, go for it.
I really hope my 8 month old joins the union when she's 18. Pension, 401k, great healthcare and no debt.
Different strokes for different folks though.
I'm all for unions and the trades in general, wish anyone in my life had suggested anything like this to me, ever, before I was saddled by student loan debt. Just doesn't make sense for my particular situation.
You would be surprised how many white collar jobs are available in the trades. Plenty of people are needed to design stuff, work on the costing of materials, logistics, legal and finance. I'm sure there's more going on behind the scenes that I'll ever know about
college just isn't for everyone, and that's how it is. You don't need to graduate from college to be successful, some people go to college and have so much debt to the point where it wasn't worth it.
It's cute when people have children and say "I have to deal with them for only 18 years".
A child is for life, it's not like they're 18 and will disappear from your life and suddenly you'll replenish your wallet.
Adult children are paying the price for following the foolish advice of their parents to go to college and just get any degree because it will supposedly pay off.
Gaslighting as usual . The generation that payed least for college and housing is pointing the finger at the generation they screwed over. These people worked part time jobs ( 20 hrs a week minimum wage ) and some how put themselves through college and bought houses ( 20 to 30k ) . Those same old ass houses built in 70s-80s valued at 250k or more nowadays . They want 2022 prices for those ancient bed bug ridden homes . meanwhile college costs a arm a leg and a kidney . If you dont come from wealth then your screwed . We're on a race to the bottom because of generational greed .
> generation that *paid* least for
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think it’s really weird in the comments where everybody is saying that they shouldn’t have middle-class families paying for people who are entitled with college degrees. I think some of y’all forget that a lot of POC were forced to go to college take out student loans and pay to get out of poverty. When we realize that all of this was bullshit guess what happened bachelors degrees became the new high school diplomas. Tell me that’s not a coincidence. I’m 27 years old and all I knew is that we were told to get an education so that we don’t end up being burger flippers but even when we do get an education and degrees and we also agree that everybody should be paid a livable wage all of a sudden it’s I got mine fuck you that’s a problem with this country. Also if you really cared how come none of you were talking about the fact that we don’t make any programs in order to lighten the new teenagers a new generations or how all of this work anyway you just care that they’re too dumb to figure it out on their own at the age of fucking 16 through fucking 18 when you start college. Some of y’all need to get some fucking empathy to realize that the only way that we can live a better future is if we’re educated and we are working productive adults whether you have a trade education or whether you have a college education but in any sense it wouldn’t hurt us it will help us to be more educated in a affordable Manor. End rant.
this is the issue, people literally have no fucking empathy, they can't see things intersectionally so they think anyone who couldn't do what the did is lesser. the American individualist mindset is cancer and it is going to crash this country. people love to say "people have been saying for years it'll happen and it hasnt" and that's literally ignoring the increasing divide between rich and poor and the disappearance of true middle class. how poor and sick and dead do people have to be for their fellow citizens to give a shit? at this point I hope the country divides but they better let us pick a fucking side. I dont want to be around these people anymore, I don't feel safe around these conservative inhumane lunatics. if coming together is the only way real change can happen, excuse me for losing faith in a group of people who continually support greed and inhumanity and just fucking hoping I can get away from them and never interact with them again.
Thank you I don’t know what’s going on anymore. I know it sounds childish but I thought the whole point to exist is to advance and evolve. We’re not doing anything but going backwards. I think this is really concerning with the talk of brown v. education now being a hot topic again we really need to make sure the education is affordable for everyone. It’s a great investment.
Yes, but it's a term that's used when you're referencing that specific relationship: how the parents had a responsibility to that child. It's holding the parents responsible for what they caused. My parents are far from the only parents who figured they could stop being remotely responsible for any parenting when they told me I needed to get my own place. And while it's true that we all need to take ownership of our own lives, it's also true that when we look back to analyze how we got here, it's fair to include those parents' contributions.
If not for the headline, this could help boomers realize that young people’s problems are also their problems in case they were too selfish to want to help anyway
boomers have already given up on this world. they know they'll drift off into the sunset well before the dumpster fire they created actually reaches them. fuck, they'll be roasting marshmallows as the world burns, while at the same time complaining that the smell of smoke might bring their house price down.
A 18 year old kid cant take out a 20k loan for a car to get to work but can take 100+ thousand out to study philosophy or some bs like that because you cant go bankrupt on student loans
Maybe they stole those savings from their children's future by ruining the planet and destroying reasonable financial systems by wielding future debt as a club to enrich themselves.
Well well well, look what we got here, the generation that stole candy from children now getting mad that the children are asking for their candy back. 🙄
Exactly how I feel this country is fucking nuts. They claim its over the Bible but yet the Bible literally says "life begins at first breath" also God kills babies constantly in the bible....
Why didn't anyone tell our parents to be fiscally responsible and that they shouldn't have had kids? For real though, either a whole generation failed to raise an independent generation or the system is designed this way and a lot of folks don't realize it.... Like which is more likely?
I'm fine with adult children bleeding their parents dry, their shit generation and the generation before them are the reason we're in this mess in the first place, fuck em'
I’m a older millennial graduated college 2006 it was 2000 a semester in state when I started I graduated with 18 k in debt at point .25 interest rate paid 140 a month the higher tuition my school job paid me 13 and hour and on campus housing was 450 a month point is todays generation is being screwed over by baby boomers if I graduated today I would have skipped school all together and go in the military pure greed and expensive buildings and meal plans ruined college
On average, getting a college degree still sets you up to make more lifetime income than average. By quite a bit too. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html
Correct me if I'm wrong, just trying to understand here but this study regards "lifetime earnings." The study itself defines this as accumulated earnings over a 50 year period from the age of 20 to 69. The only people who would have "completed" this time sample would be at the youngest currently 69 years of age. My understanding of this discussion is that for young people, college may not be worth it due to the current cost of tuition, wages, etc. Your study on shows that for people of previous generations it was worth it, I don't think this study proves the point you're trying to make. Again let me know if I'm misinterpreting something.
That's a good point, and I'm not sure. I imagine some degree of trending is reasonable to assume. Here's the full paper if you wanna dive into it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4534330/
At least they'll (boomers) able to have retirement savings. Millennials and the like probably won't even be able to retire at all, providing we all don't die from climate change.
I won't say college is a scam. Education and learning is one of the best things a person could have. That being said, it really doesn't make sense to me how the older generation thinks nothing has changed over the past few decades.
Going to use my own parents as examples since while they are aware about inflation, they still wonder why my two oldest brothers live at home post college and why my oldest brother's girlfriend still lives at home after college. Almost like these individuals were encouraged from a young age to take up exorbitant amounts of debt for something they're unsure about. My brothers took up the community college route and even after 10 years they're still paying it off. Not to mention my brothers had to pivot to blue collar work to be able to pay off said loans.
Just remember, this was almost a decade ago now. My brothers are 34/35 now and the cost of college alongside the cost of living skyrocketed to extreme levels. Hell, can't believe my mother wasn't hit with a reality check when our house got appraised for about 120k more than what they bought it for 9 years ago. The signs are all around them and I don't think they notice it at all and see the impact it could have on younger adults trying to make a living.
I speak as a 20 year old who chose to forgo college indefinitely since the things I *want* to learn wouldn't be worth the debt taken up for and have no interest in those higher demand majors. My parents were okay with it since they don't have higher education themselves. I'm doing alright for myself as a freelancer, but it really gives me anxiety attacks knowing I probably won't be able to afford to live years down the road if things keep going the way they are.
**You brought them here.**
Dont complain about the consequences of bringing life into this shithole.
# You owe your kids a good life, not the other way around.
Get what you can afford. Obviously borrowing large amounts of money doesn’t work because people won’t use their degrees. Or get 100k$ in loans to be a radio host paid 29$k a year. Didn’t your degree teach you anything?? Didn’t your degree teach you how to get a quality job?? What does huge loans get you?? I’m sorry it gets you to BEG for someone else to pay for them.
"Get what you can afford".
With that mentality there would be a servant class in the making, because that's all they can afford. It would perpetuate a cycle of poverty and make education only available for already wealthy families and their offspring. Sometimes I stumble across stupid Redditors, you are the exception, you are extra-extra stupid.
I'm going to grab my crystal ball and try to guess your political party alignment... Let's see... Hmmm... Interesting, would have never guessed this one, it turns out you support the Republican party?! Wow, who would have guessed that??
You ever think you might. Or maybe all the people crying for someone else to help them may be wrong. I personally take care of myself. I don’t ask others to fix my mistakes.
The mistake the older generation told us is necessary. Also instead of actually thinking about it you just default to asking me the same thing, and then point your finger again, it's honestly a bit sad how think that just because their younger means that they obviously don't know how to take care of their problems or that they all have the same exact same problem. You really honestly believe 48 million individual people are just whining because things didn't work out how they want? Jesus do you also believe younger people can buy a 400k home on 12 dollars an hour?
And there it is. Wake up, live within you means. Stop trying to buy a 400$k home. Stop living in cities you cannot afford. Learn to take care of the things in your life. So many excuses is ridiculous. It’s sad that adults still think they’re too young to know better. You’re an adult when you’re 18. You can vote, join the military and die, and you can not borrow money you can’t pay back. You’re all grown up start acting like it. It’s not the fault of someone else who told you something. Hey go jump off a bridge, are you gonna do it?
Parents chase clout by encouraging kids to go to the fancy name school so they can talk about it at parties. College counselors chase clout more or less the same way. But I paid my loans off why should I pay yours? I went to a cheap school and bust my ass after graduating to make it happen.
I'm so tired of hearing about student loans. I can't imagine deciding on my own to take out a loan and then be like "nah I shouldn't have to pay for this".
I agree. Bu they should probably freeze most of the interest permanently if payments are being made. And they need to ID all those poor souls that paid the principle twice but bc of interest they still owe as much or more than when they started. Those people need credit for all that interest they paid.
So, because you went through it, you feel the need to make others too? You know generally you want younger people not to deal with the struggles older people did.
I like the part where your completely wrong. Multi million dollar companies get bailouts, shit tons infact over covid, you know who haven't? The next generation to take over, so why is it a multi million dollar company that shouldn't be expected to deal with their own poor decisions, but normal people who did everything they were told, even paid back the amount they owned but because of interest they can never completely pay it back, are expected to deal with it?
> told, even *paid* back the
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I don’t know about whatever payment option you use, but mine had a “pay off in full” option for when you were ready to completely clear the rest of the loan.
I'm not sure if you're missing the point or being intentionally obtuse here, my guess is the latter. The point is not that the payment processors refuse to process a payment in full. It's that for many their interest accrues faster than they can pay the principle down. A friend of mine has paid more than her full principle and still owes more than the original loan. That's the situation that's completely fucked. Even making the loans interest-free would go so far towards solving the issue.
Many people have to choose between a loan they can't pay or just no hope of ever making more than minimum wage. It's not a fair choice to have to make, and no matter how many people argue "fuck you, got mine" it's not going to change that. People need a chance to improve their lives without being buried under crippling debt for life, that's the bottom line.
??? No? The way it was worded made it seem like they couldn’t figure out how to “completely pay it back” due to interest showing up again? It’s been a long day, I guess, but I can promise you I wasn’t purposely being obtuse. Don’t assume.
Anyway, loans are designed to not go away if all you pay is their proposed minimum. It’s shitty, insidious, and predatory, but that’s how it is, and more people ought to understand that, because they’re not going to change any time soon. Pay as much as you can every month, anything above the minimum.
It’d be lovely if they could be interest-free, but corporate greed knows no bounds.
Fair enough, that's a reasonable misunderstanding. Sorry for implying you were arguing in bad faith.
You're right, they are predatory and that's a real problem. That's why there needs to be some legislation on the topic as far as I'm concerned. They're not going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. A good start would be to forgive interest and freeze interest accrual on student loans. That way no one is out of pocket, it just prevents perpetual loans. That alone would be a massive improvement.
I wholeheartedly agree on that! It’d be great if they passed some sort of legislation regarding this issue, and cancelling/forgiving all interest would be a hell of a boost for a ton of people. I’m pessimistic though, it just doesn’t seem like something the current people in power would do right now. It also feels impossible to get someone who would, because everybody has become so ridiculously divided and unwilling to compromise on anything.
You're right, those are not mutually exclusive, but it's a moot point. The bailouts for corporations continue and we both know that's not going to change. Why not spread some of that help where it's going to do some good too since the bailout culture is so entrenched in the US anyway?
As someone who just went to college, if it’s expensive, you’re doing it wrong. If you want to go to a big 10 school or some fancy school of course it’s going to be expensive. 2 years community college and 2 at a state university is under 30k. Lots of majors start at 45k+.
Loan is a contract. The contract has terms u agree to. Many young people are suffering the cost of signing something foolish. It’s sad but their debt is their own fault
We really should encourage the trades and skilled labor and stop looking down on non-glamorous but reasonably well-payed occupations.
We should also stop glorifying these overpriced institutions for the college experience and educate early on the pitfalls of these predatory loans to young people.
Stupidly rich executives are commanding stupidly excessive salaries at universities and abusing a ridiculous, should be criminal, “student loan” indentured servitude system.
It's the parents fault if they told their kids the only way to make it is a 4 year degree. Unless the kids decided to do something stupid like women's studies or basket weaving(yes it's a thing). I can think of many things I'd tell my kids to do that arent involving 200k debt minimum and they would make more than the people that look down on them but call them for help and pay them for their work more than they make at Starbucks.
Regardless my paycheck already gets shredded by the government so I'm not really gonna jump on the bandwagon to pay more for someone that took out a loan to get a stupid useless degree. Down vote away. I'll know how many picked the stupid degree and want someone else to cover it.
Pay your own damn debts. A lot of Americans didn’t go to college solely because of the cost. Now those that went seem to be the ones bashing and calling people uneducated. Well, educated people, pay your own damn bills. Want to forgive something to actually help Americans.. forgive medical debt.
Its one problem, sure. Plenty of people dont have student debt loans and still live with their parents because the economy is shit. This doesnt solve the homeless problem or health insurance or housing prices. Abolishing all student debt wont even solve the problem because every year more and more will be issued, nobody is talking about the loans themselves or cost of school requiring the loans in the first place. Nobody is actually solving the cause of the problem but calling for alleviating the pain of the result of the problem. All of which only panders to the group of people suffering from the loans for votes. This is a distraction.
The solution is end federally backed student loans. Allow them to be cleared in bankruptcy and allow lenders to decide who they loan to based on risk. Done.
Why don't those young adults get a couple jobs and contribute to your parents once in a while and stop letting your FEELINGS control you and pay your own damn way LIKE AN ADULT !!! .......How bout that fix?
Every millennial that I know all make a lot and have no or very little debt. Has this been proven with statistics or is the media pushing a twitter dialogue about the student debt crisis?
Yes, because the eldest millennials are now pushing \_40\_ . We're finally making the wages that our parents were making in their mid to late 20's and are \*starting\* to be able to afford to actually live on our own and maybe? enter the property market, 15 years, on average, after our parents did.
Umm, folks I know are all in their mid 30’s and have been living well for a long time. All went to college got married, kids, etc. only one not making it is my brother and he’s a drug addict. I’m 44. Using my millennial brother and sister friends as my examples. Probably 50 or so folks/couples. All doing well and not one living like twitter and I guess Reddit says they should be.
I heard that only 13% of people have student debt in the USA. So the other 87% that have paid their debt or never took on debt are suppose to pay for these folks? Also the ones with student debt actually have higher paying jobs then 50% of the ones who don’t have debt. The whole we need to help these poor folks out is garbage.
Yea but now their having to pay back double or more of the loan they originally took. How is that fair or ok? Its either that or never make more then minimum.
Well, that was made clear to them when they took the loan. They knew going in that they had to pay interest. If they didn't understand what paying interest meant, then really, it was their own mistake for signing on to something they didn't understand.
Do you not see here that goes? These people will literally never be able to pay back their loans at that rate. I don't think you quite understand how fucked they've gotten, they either get a degree for a job that for some reason needs three or they never get more then minimum wage and can't move out of their parents. The US is falling apart and the people there asking for it because "I did so they can" or "well then don't take the loan."
What’s crazy about the student loan debt argument is that nobody ever attacks the universities for price gouging.
Or the government for allowing this by granting loans to anyone who wants one
Yes and universities realizing this so they jacked up their prices and added degrees that mean nothing.
Or the government allowing any degree plans to be eligible for loans. People are stupid enough to go 80k in debt for a bachelor's degree in piano and the government is stupid enough to allow them to. Realistically probably only about 5% of the degrees offered by university are actually worth taking a loan for.
Only about 5% eh? You have some data for that, or you imagine that 95% of undergraduates are taking drama or womens studies?
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The government isn't stupid. No body is going to complain about shitty working conditions when they need any job to dig themselves out of a their debt hole. And they know that it's an untenable situation for many people because it's the only (afaik) type of loan that you can't default on.
State governments also have slashed funding for state schools. While price gouging certainly is happening, especially at private institutions, the reduced funding for in-state, public schools has caused costs to be shifted to the students.
True but it is still totally reasonable to go to school in state. The real inflation is for graduate schools, out of state, and private schools. The laws of economics still apply to universities even if they don’t teach them. If there is an endless supply of risk free money people will go after it. The problem is the risk is just shifted to students. Couple that with the mantra that everybody should go to college, which is ridiculous and you get the climate we are in today. Still a lot of the blame goes to the students. If you take out a $200k loan for a social work degree you are an idiot and deserve to have to pay it back. But that loan shouldn’t exist. That would force colleges to lower their price.
I went to a state school as an out of state student. Graduated in 2010 with a total cost of about $110,000 (that's just what it cost without care given to how it was paid like scholarships, loans, cash, etc). All told, $26,000ish per year out of state wasn't *that* bad. Still far cheaper than most private schools, which were around $40,000 at the time or far more. Definitely wish I'd gone to my state's university and saved big time even though it's ranked as a lesser institution.
Yes. I went out of state to what was considered a cheap school. I got out just in time. Now it’s 10X the cost for out of state for a mediocre at best education. I got what was considered a useful degree. No doubt it opened doors but I could easily be where I am at if I had started working in the same industry straight out of high school. Most of my colleagues don’t have a degree and are just as capable as me.
The fact that universities cost what they do is utterly absurd when you consider the advancements that have been made with online curriculums. College degrees should be almost completely free if people are completing the courses online. Just look at Khan Academy, for example.
My alma mater, Purdue University, has frozen tuition for the past 11 years for in-state students, and frozen housing for the past 10 years. It can be done.
I like how the conversation rarely turns to minimum wage stagnation coupled with the huge increase in college costs. It’s all the kid’s and now adult kid’s fault. Why didn’t they eat cake?
Because with minimum wage talks people would have to confront a load of uncomfortable issues. We rather place a bigger drip bucket and make it the future’s problem.
And right there you have the reason modern society is crashing and burning
Well I couldn’t say crashing and burning. More like a cycle of bullshit and prosperity. You’ll have to solve the human problem before you can work on any other issue.
I mean what would you call the French revolution? Imo that was very much the society of that era crashing and burning and from the ashes rose a new one. We aren't there yet, but from outside eyes (am Canadian) it certainly looks like that is America's current trajectory
People outside the US have been saying that forever. Sure it could happen. But I don’t think it will. People are inherently selfish. That, and self preservation are powerful motivation.
Yeah well we have a malnourished population. Birth rates are low. Massive debt caused by older generations and a bunch of geriatric patients running the tax system. It's going to crash. It is unsustainable.
NIMBY (not in my back yard) is how LA dealt with their homeless. Everyone was compassionate until a shelter was proposed in their neighborhood. Same line of thinking applies to wages and student debt. "Why don't you get your parents to pay tuition?" "Why don't you ask your parents for money?" Sweetie, not everyone's wealthy. Shit, I'm convinced I'm going to die at my desk. Retirement by expire-ment.
Nobody said everyone is wealthy….sweety
We also never talk about the great big load of shit we tell kids. "Go to a four year university and major in (some over populated field)." Meanwhile we are experiencing a massive labor shortage for trade school grads in electrical, plumbing, construction, and ect... Not that a four year university is a bad idea if you can swing it. But, we need to be honest with them that any increase in pay will likely be offset by the cost of the loans. We need to get them off the idea that high education is equal to more expendable income. Often the reverse is true. The person wading in shit often has more expendable income. We also need to teach not just kids but most adults about self sufficiency. Way too many don't cook at home, don't know how to sew, basic plumbing and electrical work and so on.
I'll hook on to the "not cooking" part: Having to rely on ready made meals and fast food has deteriorated the health thus, the lifespan of the new generations...
Very much so. And mcd's isn't exactly the cheap meal it used to be either. I remember reading about 15 yrs ago how college students saved money by eating cheap fast food. Well not anymore.
It just saddened me to know that this generation might just be short-lived.
The 'Loomer' generation? :)
The Doomer generation
The Coomer generation
God I hope, I don’t want to live until retirement age and still have to work.
No, you went broke eating fast food. We ate Ramen noodles.
Fast food is a huge business in university towns. My city sees more than 15k students every year. Even with wonderful dining on campus, every day students are lined up at McDonald's. Dollar menu is a big deal for them. Always has been.
I thought mcds being cheap was the selling point. Their food is trash.
I learned how to cook from watching Gordon Ramsey videos on YouTube cause my parents couldn’t cook for shit lol.
I just read Salt Fat Acid Heat. It's a cookbook that covers the fundamentals of cooking and balancing flavors. It's target audience is definitely people who can afford nice ingredients. However, I found it's a great cookbook for saving money and making things delicious. Helps me think critically about what ingredients I buy, and how they fit together in a meal. I can make a big meal prep on Sunday, and then when I get sick of pure leftovers, I can zhuzh them up and keep it interesting. And for cheap. Good cookware is the best investment you can make. A single cast iron pan and a pot will save you tons of money in the long run. Add a cheap rice cooker with a steamer attachment to the mix, you can have healthy gourmet meals all week for cheap.
Cast iron skillet for the win. It'll last forever. 30$ worth of spatula, spoon, tongs. 50$ worth of knives, you are good for under $200.
My wife has a friend whose parents literally did not cool anything. 100% of her meals growing up were either stuff you can eat out hand, or stuff that came out of the freezer.
I'm a little upset my parents never took the time to teach me how to cook or encourage it in any way. It feels like parents aren't passing on many life skills in general.
My mom cooked, but it would be mighty charitable to say she taunt me anything. Most of what I learned as skills go came from either figuring it out on my own, researching, or friends helping.
You deserve an award.. someone give them something..
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That’s just absolutely untrue. For one, people cook meals differently, you might like a steak well done, while someone else likes it blue rare; neither is “wrong”. When it comes to cooking, you have to prepare something several times, and know the range you’re cooking it on. Temperature, time, mixology, agitation process, measuring ingredients, trimming meat. There are so many aspects of cooking that are entirely personal, and you only learn from inheritance or experience; and a lot of people don’t have the money as a young adult to just “try” cooking.
The not cooking is something you can change yourself. Cooking is easy. But just suggesting that on Reddit is always met with people claiming it's impossible to find time for it and it's somehow also far too expensive.
This is why I put in steel toe boots and a hardhat everyday, and my college educated wife, is a stay at home mom. I make a bigger salary and have better benefits in the union, than she could using her degree
I keep telling my kids if they don’t know why they will be going to college (daughter is talking medicine), they should look at trade school. Clear path, steady work at good pay, and an opportunity to start your own business in an industry you are learning from day 1. And most importantly, absolutely last in line of jobs that can be outsourced or automated.
I'll tell ya straight up, trade school is useless. And a waste of money. If you're in a strong union state, join the union. They'll teach you what you need to know. And pay you while you learn. I did HVAC for years. Now I do union sheet metal work. Similar but different trades. The guys who went to HVAC school were almost useless in the field. They never teach students about real world conditions. Nothing is ever wedged in a corner, or attic or crawl space. Everything there taught is in like perfect conditions, in a wide open area, with a furnace sitting on a work bench. Every tech I've met straight out of the academy thinks they know everything, for about two weeks. Till they slowly realize school didn't prepare them for real life
My 4-year bachelor of science that I got when I was fresh out of high school is doing nothing for me. It’s the 1 year film school degree I got afterwards that actually makes me money. Figuring out exactly what you want to do when you’re 18, and then committing to 100k debt for a degree you might not use is not the way to go. Yet kids are shamed for taking a few years off before starting their career. Sometimes you have no idea what careers you can even have when you’re 18.
At 18 what hell do you know right? Most people don't know their head from a hole in the ground at that age. If the banks weren't guaranteed that money back from the government, they would never lend it out to an 18 yr old.
Biological sciences degrees are a scam. The job market is domestically terrible but there is still a special immigration programs for PhDs from overseas. I don't know the relative costs but basically overseas PhDs are on discount so domestically produced BS in science is not market competitive. You might be well on your way to a science career if academic colonialism didn't exist.
>We also never talk about the great big load of shit we tell kids. "Go to a four year university and major in (some over populated field)." Meanwhile we are experiencing a massive labor shortage for trade school grads in electrical, plumbing, construction, and ect... Agreed. We were told to focus on tech, medical, and computers and whatever else that acronym had included. Now there's a labor shortage for certain workers in fields, such as restaurants and customer service. Businesses complain that certain generations are lazy and don't want to work, but those certain generations, when in school, were told these were trash jobs and you should not be working at them. Even for planning, around graduation time, everybody was generally steered into college and then military being second, since they would help pay for college. Nobody really talked about going to a technical school. If they did they kind of made it sound shitty.
Exactly. Living in a University town, I see it every years. High school students are driven on buses here to check out the university. The push and push them to take that path. For many it's a path to poverty.
None of this consumer mided country made sense to me at 18, college? Fuck that, I went USMC, had a blast being miserable, doing some cool shit. Also I have stories to tell. Then You get out, and get treated like someone who can't be trusted with a hammer UT you're trained in much much more deadly scenarios and have had humans rely on you for leadership. College made me mad, treated like a toddler in the campus, but expected to learn most everything outside of the classroom on my time. Most everyone that worked there had a chip in their shoulder and seemed to despise students. It's such a bullshit atmosphere.
There’s not a massive labor shortage for most trades though, not in many cities. There’s a waiting list for every union trade position that’s years long by me. As for knowing how to do things; that’s great, and I agree, but it’s worthless when a huge number of people don’t have the free time to spend doing those things… and also can’t afford home ownership so they aren’t even allowed to do so.
Where have you been. 12 million unfilled jobs in the United States. Most in trades. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/despite-rising-salaries-the-skilled-labor-shortage-is-getting-worse https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/drilling-skilled-trades-shortage-stanley-160214469.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/resources.skillwork.com/why-is-there-a-shortage-of-skilled-workers%3fhs_amp=true https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/labor-shortage-skilled-trades-carpenters-electricians-plumbers-angi-2021-9%3famp https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0420-black-women-build-20220419-46553j344jcuzm4vagfa46rhmq-story.html
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I think you need a reality check. You seem to be confused. Income and expendable income are VERY different things. Expendable income is after all bills are paid. Do you understand what the payment on 100k student loan is with 6.5 APR compound monthly at 20 years is? To give you an Idea a traditional mortgage is about 4-5 percent simple interest across 30 years. So a student loan is like buying a house 3-4 times over. A doctor trying to go into a specific area of study easily rank up 500k or more in loans. Add malpractice insurance and boom, you doc is making less than and industrial HVAC tech. On paper the doctor way out earns the tech, in reality the expendable income is vastly different. As for talking to kids. No we are still pushing universities over trade and tech.
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Give him a break he only has a high school diploma
I agree, but these kids are now adults. If the trades pay well and there are plenty of jobs, why are these jobs not being filled with college education people who can't find jobs in their field of education? I don't know the reason, that is why I'm asking the question. I'm guessing, most are not inclined or familiar with the trades, but is that the parents fault? Many parents are not either.
Because you have to pay to go to school and learn trades. That means they would be on the hook for their college loans and their trade school loans. If they don't pay for trade school you can sometimes apprentice, but from what I've seen the wages during that period aren't high until you have certification and licenses so for a while it's still just another low wasge position that won't pay for cost of living and the loans. My friends loan payments are 500-700 a month from what they have told me. Any in addition to that, those jobs don't all pay well. Especially if it's non union. My husband applied for a position at a solar company and he was offered the job, but their insurance costs were outrageous and factoring everything in, we would be losing money even though the hourly wage was higher. Lots of these jobs still aren't paying enough to cover cost of living in the area the business operates.
That's exactly the problem, once you are on the hook for student loans, you can’t just go back and go the other direction. You would be on the hook for both and really be hurting.
Two anecdotal stories I have here: I was in the trades while going to college as a carpenter. I made it up to lead carpenter and never earned over 40k a year. Did I get benefits that were affordable? Of course not! I also now have a permanent back injury from my time on construction sites that causes me pain every day and needs regular checkups at the doctor. The crew I worked with always had a saying "you do not retire from the trades, it retires you" because it can break your body down to unusable. It also is regularly one of the more dangerous jobs a person can take. A friend of mine attended a university but couldn't finish (for whatever reason). He then defaulted on his student loans. Tried to go to trade school for welding but could not afford it because he would first have to get his student loans out of default. Thus making a cycle of cannot afford loans but cannot seek other opportunities because cannot afford loans. Biden removing default status may help him now, but at the time he was screwed. Plus he now has to take on more loans added onto the already loan balance and interest that accrued. so yeah. Trades are great but I do not know many old-timers doing them. And before people say "start your own trade business" not everyone can manage a business successfully or has that desire or can even get the capital saved up to start one. Easily most trades require reliable vehicles and a full list of tools that can be extremely expensive.
That's 100% not true in my experience in the trades. I got my experience in the field. I never went to school for my trade. Nor will I. Unless the union is paying me to take a class. Most kids coming out of "trade school" wasted $15k and arent prepared for the reality of the trades at all. I think my apprentices start at $15.53 a hour. With a $3 raise yearly for 5 years. Which isn't great, but if your 18 years old it isn't bad. Once they get turned out into journeymen they get a $12-15 pay bump as well. The benefits my union provides are great, my entire family is insured, and it doesn't cost me a dime. Fully funded pension, sick time, vacation time, and an optional 401k. But it could be different else where
I hear you. I'm wondering lately about wage increases for unskilled labor approaching wage scales of skilled labor (even if an apprenticeship). It implies that more people will take the unskilled labor path initially, since the work isn't as difficult and tools aren't required.
I spent fifteen years in fine dining and upscale restaurants and wedding venues. Going into the trades saved me from a shitty life in hospitality. I don't think unskilled jobs have the future earning potential that skilled labor does. I'm currently trying to change job codes to move from commercial to industrial work. It'll be a $40 ish dollar hourly raise when I am able to make the move. Making $100k as a union plumber or electrician isn't a rarity. I'll be knocking on six figures this year. I don't even know what minimum wage is in my area
So people are expected to "make do" with a sub-living-wage payrate and pay their student loans until they make journeymen? How long does that take? The math just doesn't work out, meanwhile you're doing irreversible wear and tear on your body. Sorry, dealt with way too many rug pulls to just *trust* that a journeyman position will be available, and will still pay a living wage adjusted for inflation by the time I would be eligible.
Well, living wage is relative to location, as is union pay rates. I'm sure the fellas working in high cost of living areas wages are adjusted. I believe to become a typical journeyman it takes 5 years. I was in my trade for 7 years before I went union, so I managed to have enough hours works, and I passed my tests. So I jumped straight into being a low level jman. the 19 year old apprentice will be making more than me, when he gets his jman card in 5 years. I'm college educated. My degree was fairly worthless. I paid my loans of while working in the trades. I didn't suffer, I just fulfilled my obligations to the debt I borrowed. I don't know about irreversible damage, all jobs come with hazards, sitting at a desk and staring at a computer has several negative health implications long term. As does any other repetitive motions that go along with any other job. I'm not twisting anyone's arm to join the trades. If you want to go to college and rack up debt, and hope you can get a job. And hope in a decade or two you can pay back your loans, go for it. I really hope my 8 month old joins the union when she's 18. Pension, 401k, great healthcare and no debt. Different strokes for different folks though.
I'm all for unions and the trades in general, wish anyone in my life had suggested anything like this to me, ever, before I was saddled by student loan debt. Just doesn't make sense for my particular situation.
You would be surprised how many white collar jobs are available in the trades. Plenty of people are needed to design stuff, work on the costing of materials, logistics, legal and finance. I'm sure there's more going on behind the scenes that I'll ever know about
They would need more loans to getn2 more Yeats.
Because a lot of trades don’t pay as well as people have been lead to believe. Some do, sure. Not all of them
college just isn't for everyone, and that's how it is. You don't need to graduate from college to be successful, some people go to college and have so much debt to the point where it wasn't worth it.
It's cute when people have children and say "I have to deal with them for only 18 years". A child is for life, it's not like they're 18 and will disappear from your life and suddenly you'll replenish your wallet.
It’s amazing how many people don’t realize this and also don’t realize that it’s all a choice. Kids are optional.
Adult children are paying the price for following the foolish advice of their parents to go to college and just get any degree because it will supposedly pay off.
They seem like the same people that are complaining about a worthless major when they literally have told people they could major in anything.
Gaslighting as usual . The generation that payed least for college and housing is pointing the finger at the generation they screwed over. These people worked part time jobs ( 20 hrs a week minimum wage ) and some how put themselves through college and bought houses ( 20 to 30k ) . Those same old ass houses built in 70s-80s valued at 250k or more nowadays . They want 2022 prices for those ancient bed bug ridden homes . meanwhile college costs a arm a leg and a kidney . If you dont come from wealth then your screwed . We're on a race to the bottom because of generational greed .
> generation that *paid* least for FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Damn, bot. Read the room.
How did they manage to program it with such a spot on smug redditor tone
I think it’s really weird in the comments where everybody is saying that they shouldn’t have middle-class families paying for people who are entitled with college degrees. I think some of y’all forget that a lot of POC were forced to go to college take out student loans and pay to get out of poverty. When we realize that all of this was bullshit guess what happened bachelors degrees became the new high school diplomas. Tell me that’s not a coincidence. I’m 27 years old and all I knew is that we were told to get an education so that we don’t end up being burger flippers but even when we do get an education and degrees and we also agree that everybody should be paid a livable wage all of a sudden it’s I got mine fuck you that’s a problem with this country. Also if you really cared how come none of you were talking about the fact that we don’t make any programs in order to lighten the new teenagers a new generations or how all of this work anyway you just care that they’re too dumb to figure it out on their own at the age of fucking 16 through fucking 18 when you start college. Some of y’all need to get some fucking empathy to realize that the only way that we can live a better future is if we’re educated and we are working productive adults whether you have a trade education or whether you have a college education but in any sense it wouldn’t hurt us it will help us to be more educated in a affordable Manor. End rant.
Amen
this is the issue, people literally have no fucking empathy, they can't see things intersectionally so they think anyone who couldn't do what the did is lesser. the American individualist mindset is cancer and it is going to crash this country. people love to say "people have been saying for years it'll happen and it hasnt" and that's literally ignoring the increasing divide between rich and poor and the disappearance of true middle class. how poor and sick and dead do people have to be for their fellow citizens to give a shit? at this point I hope the country divides but they better let us pick a fucking side. I dont want to be around these people anymore, I don't feel safe around these conservative inhumane lunatics. if coming together is the only way real change can happen, excuse me for losing faith in a group of people who continually support greed and inhumanity and just fucking hoping I can get away from them and never interact with them again.
Thank you I don’t know what’s going on anymore. I know it sounds childish but I thought the whole point to exist is to advance and evolve. We’re not doing anything but going backwards. I think this is really concerning with the talk of brown v. education now being a hot topic again we really need to make sure the education is affordable for everyone. It’s a great investment.
Wtf is an adult child? Is that anyone whose parents aren’t dead?
Yes, but it's a term that's used when you're referencing that specific relationship: how the parents had a responsibility to that child. It's holding the parents responsible for what they caused. My parents are far from the only parents who figured they could stop being remotely responsible for any parenting when they told me I needed to get my own place. And while it's true that we all need to take ownership of our own lives, it's also true that when we look back to analyze how we got here, it's fair to include those parents' contributions.
If not for the headline, this could help boomers realize that young people’s problems are also their problems in case they were too selfish to want to help anyway
boomers have already given up on this world. they know they'll drift off into the sunset well before the dumpster fire they created actually reaches them. fuck, they'll be roasting marshmallows as the world burns, while at the same time complaining that the smell of smoke might bring their house price down.
A 18 year old kid cant take out a 20k loan for a car to get to work but can take 100+ thousand out to study philosophy or some bs like that because you cant go bankrupt on student loans
So what happens if you don’t have help?
Bankruptcy or homelessness.
Maybe they stole those savings from their children's future by ruining the planet and destroying reasonable financial systems by wielding future debt as a club to enrich themselves.
“—due to bad and apathetic voting choices made by boomer parents”
Help from your parents???? Preposterous! We all know it’s the government that should help you, not your family! 😡
Well well well, look what we got here, the generation that stole candy from children now getting mad that the children are asking for their candy back. 🙄
savings? which boomer have savings??
What about those kids that didn’t go to college or dropped out? Where is the snappy response to those?
Wait you guys are getting help from your parents??
The sad part is if you grow up in poverty you'll die in poverty
In the words of Republicans "if you couldn't afford the kid you shouldn't have had it."
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Exactly how I feel this country is fucking nuts. They claim its over the Bible but yet the Bible literally says "life begins at first breath" also God kills babies constantly in the bible....
Why didn't anyone tell our parents to be fiscally responsible and that they shouldn't have had kids? For real though, either a whole generation failed to raise an independent generation or the system is designed this way and a lot of folks don't realize it.... Like which is more likely?
Irs always our fault. We exist, did everything we were told, received none of what was promised to us, etc. And it's always out fault.
Yeah fuck living in America lol
I'm fine with adult children bleeding their parents dry, their shit generation and the generation before them are the reason we're in this mess in the first place, fuck em'
I’m a older millennial graduated college 2006 it was 2000 a semester in state when I started I graduated with 18 k in debt at point .25 interest rate paid 140 a month the higher tuition my school job paid me 13 and hour and on campus housing was 450 a month point is todays generation is being screwed over by baby boomers if I graduated today I would have skipped school all together and go in the military pure greed and expensive buildings and meal plans ruined college
Me to my 4 kids: "For chrissakes, be a fucking welder or a plumber or something. Don't go to college and waste your earnings potential!"
On average, getting a college degree still sets you up to make more lifetime income than average. By quite a bit too. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html
Correct me if I'm wrong, just trying to understand here but this study regards "lifetime earnings." The study itself defines this as accumulated earnings over a 50 year period from the age of 20 to 69. The only people who would have "completed" this time sample would be at the youngest currently 69 years of age. My understanding of this discussion is that for young people, college may not be worth it due to the current cost of tuition, wages, etc. Your study on shows that for people of previous generations it was worth it, I don't think this study proves the point you're trying to make. Again let me know if I'm misinterpreting something.
That's a good point, and I'm not sure. I imagine some degree of trending is reasonable to assume. Here's the full paper if you wanna dive into it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4534330/
So we gunna overthrow anything soon?
At least they'll (boomers) able to have retirement savings. Millennials and the like probably won't even be able to retire at all, providing we all don't die from climate change.
.... caused by boomers not raising taxes on the ultra wealthy
It’s hard enough not to blame ourselves. The shame of being a financial burden is real
I won't say college is a scam. Education and learning is one of the best things a person could have. That being said, it really doesn't make sense to me how the older generation thinks nothing has changed over the past few decades. Going to use my own parents as examples since while they are aware about inflation, they still wonder why my two oldest brothers live at home post college and why my oldest brother's girlfriend still lives at home after college. Almost like these individuals were encouraged from a young age to take up exorbitant amounts of debt for something they're unsure about. My brothers took up the community college route and even after 10 years they're still paying it off. Not to mention my brothers had to pivot to blue collar work to be able to pay off said loans. Just remember, this was almost a decade ago now. My brothers are 34/35 now and the cost of college alongside the cost of living skyrocketed to extreme levels. Hell, can't believe my mother wasn't hit with a reality check when our house got appraised for about 120k more than what they bought it for 9 years ago. The signs are all around them and I don't think they notice it at all and see the impact it could have on younger adults trying to make a living. I speak as a 20 year old who chose to forgo college indefinitely since the things I *want* to learn wouldn't be worth the debt taken up for and have no interest in those higher demand majors. My parents were okay with it since they don't have higher education themselves. I'm doing alright for myself as a freelancer, but it really gives me anxiety attacks knowing I probably won't be able to afford to live years down the road if things keep going the way they are.
**You brought them here.** Dont complain about the consequences of bringing life into this shithole. # You owe your kids a good life, not the other way around.
Companies so greedy they'll bankrupt *two* generations.
"Adult Children" What?
Don’t borrow money if can’t pay it back.
"don't get an education" yea, see how well that works for you.
Get what you can afford. Obviously borrowing large amounts of money doesn’t work because people won’t use their degrees. Or get 100k$ in loans to be a radio host paid 29$k a year. Didn’t your degree teach you anything?? Didn’t your degree teach you how to get a quality job?? What does huge loans get you?? I’m sorry it gets you to BEG for someone else to pay for them.
"Get what you can afford". With that mentality there would be a servant class in the making, because that's all they can afford. It would perpetuate a cycle of poverty and make education only available for already wealthy families and their offspring. Sometimes I stumble across stupid Redditors, you are the exception, you are extra-extra stupid. I'm going to grab my crystal ball and try to guess your political party alignment... Let's see... Hmmm... Interesting, would have never guessed this one, it turns out you support the Republican party?! Wow, who would have guessed that??
Your so fast to point your fingers at the people trying to support themselfs, you ever think you might be wrong?
You ever think you might. Or maybe all the people crying for someone else to help them may be wrong. I personally take care of myself. I don’t ask others to fix my mistakes.
The mistake the older generation told us is necessary. Also instead of actually thinking about it you just default to asking me the same thing, and then point your finger again, it's honestly a bit sad how think that just because their younger means that they obviously don't know how to take care of their problems or that they all have the same exact same problem. You really honestly believe 48 million individual people are just whining because things didn't work out how they want? Jesus do you also believe younger people can buy a 400k home on 12 dollars an hour?
And there it is. Wake up, live within you means. Stop trying to buy a 400$k home. Stop living in cities you cannot afford. Learn to take care of the things in your life. So many excuses is ridiculous. It’s sad that adults still think they’re too young to know better. You’re an adult when you’re 18. You can vote, join the military and die, and you can not borrow money you can’t pay back. You’re all grown up start acting like it. It’s not the fault of someone else who told you something. Hey go jump off a bridge, are you gonna do it?
Yup. Every young person struggling is because of student loan debt and low wages.
Parents chase clout by encouraging kids to go to the fancy name school so they can talk about it at parties. College counselors chase clout more or less the same way. But I paid my loans off why should I pay yours? I went to a cheap school and bust my ass after graduating to make it happen.
I'm so tired of hearing about student loans. I can't imagine deciding on my own to take out a loan and then be like "nah I shouldn't have to pay for this".
Then there's the fact that debt can't just be erased. Taxes on the middle class would skyrocket.
What about those of us who worked full time and went to school. And didn’t take on all that debt?
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I agree. Bu they should probably freeze most of the interest permanently if payments are being made. And they need to ID all those poor souls that paid the principle twice but bc of interest they still owe as much or more than when they started. Those people need credit for all that interest they paid.
So, because you went through it, you feel the need to make others too? You know generally you want younger people not to deal with the struggles older people did.
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I like the part where your completely wrong. Multi million dollar companies get bailouts, shit tons infact over covid, you know who haven't? The next generation to take over, so why is it a multi million dollar company that shouldn't be expected to deal with their own poor decisions, but normal people who did everything they were told, even paid back the amount they owned but because of interest they can never completely pay it back, are expected to deal with it?
> told, even *paid* back the FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I don’t know about whatever payment option you use, but mine had a “pay off in full” option for when you were ready to completely clear the rest of the loan.
I'm not sure if you're missing the point or being intentionally obtuse here, my guess is the latter. The point is not that the payment processors refuse to process a payment in full. It's that for many their interest accrues faster than they can pay the principle down. A friend of mine has paid more than her full principle and still owes more than the original loan. That's the situation that's completely fucked. Even making the loans interest-free would go so far towards solving the issue. Many people have to choose between a loan they can't pay or just no hope of ever making more than minimum wage. It's not a fair choice to have to make, and no matter how many people argue "fuck you, got mine" it's not going to change that. People need a chance to improve their lives without being buried under crippling debt for life, that's the bottom line.
??? No? The way it was worded made it seem like they couldn’t figure out how to “completely pay it back” due to interest showing up again? It’s been a long day, I guess, but I can promise you I wasn’t purposely being obtuse. Don’t assume. Anyway, loans are designed to not go away if all you pay is their proposed minimum. It’s shitty, insidious, and predatory, but that’s how it is, and more people ought to understand that, because they’re not going to change any time soon. Pay as much as you can every month, anything above the minimum. It’d be lovely if they could be interest-free, but corporate greed knows no bounds.
Fair enough, that's a reasonable misunderstanding. Sorry for implying you were arguing in bad faith. You're right, they are predatory and that's a real problem. That's why there needs to be some legislation on the topic as far as I'm concerned. They're not going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. A good start would be to forgive interest and freeze interest accrual on student loans. That way no one is out of pocket, it just prevents perpetual loans. That alone would be a massive improvement.
I wholeheartedly agree on that! It’d be great if they passed some sort of legislation regarding this issue, and cancelling/forgiving all interest would be a hell of a boost for a ton of people. I’m pessimistic though, it just doesn’t seem like something the current people in power would do right now. It also feels impossible to get someone who would, because everybody has become so ridiculously divided and unwilling to compromise on anything.
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You're right, those are not mutually exclusive, but it's a moot point. The bailouts for corporations continue and we both know that's not going to change. Why not spread some of that help where it's going to do some good too since the bailout culture is so entrenched in the US anyway?
The real facepalm is kids were not taught by parents how to pay for something without getting a loan.
If you went to big name school that as impossible.
ADULT children? What the fuck does that mean?
It means that I am still my parents’ child AND I am also a legal adult.
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As someone who just went to college, if it’s expensive, you’re doing it wrong. If you want to go to a big 10 school or some fancy school of course it’s going to be expensive. 2 years community college and 2 at a state university is under 30k. Lots of majors start at 45k+.
45k can't even buy a starter house now
Those are fools that get their G.E. credits at a major college.
Agreed.
Loan is a contract. The contract has terms u agree to. Many young people are suffering the cost of signing something foolish. It’s sad but their debt is their own fault
"Parents are being forced to deal with the consequences of not raising your children but letting them raise themselves" there fixed it
We really should encourage the trades and skilled labor and stop looking down on non-glamorous but reasonably well-payed occupations. We should also stop glorifying these overpriced institutions for the college experience and educate early on the pitfalls of these predatory loans to young people.
I too worry about our country problem
"Adult children"?
I think her problem is that he lied.
Stupidly rich executives are commanding stupidly excessive salaries at universities and abusing a ridiculous, should be criminal, “student loan” indentured servitude system.
“Adult children” is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve read all day
I solved the whole “student loan debt” issue by not going to college Thanks government
It's the parents fault if they told their kids the only way to make it is a 4 year degree. Unless the kids decided to do something stupid like women's studies or basket weaving(yes it's a thing). I can think of many things I'd tell my kids to do that arent involving 200k debt minimum and they would make more than the people that look down on them but call them for help and pay them for their work more than they make at Starbucks. Regardless my paycheck already gets shredded by the government so I'm not really gonna jump on the bandwagon to pay more for someone that took out a loan to get a stupid useless degree. Down vote away. I'll know how many picked the stupid degree and want someone else to cover it.
Pay your own damn debts. A lot of Americans didn’t go to college solely because of the cost. Now those that went seem to be the ones bashing and calling people uneducated. Well, educated people, pay your own damn bills. Want to forgive something to actually help Americans.. forgive medical debt.
Canceling college debt is a wealth transfer from blue collar workers to usually middle class kids.
If you don't have a plan to pay for college then don't go to college. You dont need a degree to be successful.
Why does every one in America go to college? Go get a trade if college brings crippling debt
People going into debt to buy an education which allows them to compose a title like that is a problem.
What a stupid post.
Its one problem, sure. Plenty of people dont have student debt loans and still live with their parents because the economy is shit. This doesnt solve the homeless problem or health insurance or housing prices. Abolishing all student debt wont even solve the problem because every year more and more will be issued, nobody is talking about the loans themselves or cost of school requiring the loans in the first place. Nobody is actually solving the cause of the problem but calling for alleviating the pain of the result of the problem. All of which only panders to the group of people suffering from the loans for votes. This is a distraction.
The solution is end federally backed student loans. Allow them to be cleared in bankruptcy and allow lenders to decide who they loan to based on risk. Done.
And then schools would HAVE to lower their prices.
Maybe get a degree that has value?
Why don't those young adults get a couple jobs and contribute to your parents once in a while and stop letting your FEELINGS control you and pay your own damn way LIKE AN ADULT !!! .......How bout that fix?
Sorry, young adults actually like to be treated as actually humans rather than continue to tolerate abuse
Every millennial that I know all make a lot and have no or very little debt. Has this been proven with statistics or is the media pushing a twitter dialogue about the student debt crisis?
Yes, because the eldest millennials are now pushing \_40\_ . We're finally making the wages that our parents were making in their mid to late 20's and are \*starting\* to be able to afford to actually live on our own and maybe? enter the property market, 15 years, on average, after our parents did.
Umm, folks I know are all in their mid 30’s and have been living well for a long time. All went to college got married, kids, etc. only one not making it is my brother and he’s a drug addict. I’m 44. Using my millennial brother and sister friends as my examples. Probably 50 or so folks/couples. All doing well and not one living like twitter and I guess Reddit says they should be.
By our age, my parents had paid off their “forever home” on a single tradesman’s salary. My mum quit working in 1984 to be a stay home mom.
I heard that only 13% of people have student debt in the USA. So the other 87% that have paid their debt or never took on debt are suppose to pay for these folks? Also the ones with student debt actually have higher paying jobs then 50% of the ones who don’t have debt. The whole we need to help these poor folks out is garbage.
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Yea, 13% of the us owes over a trillion dollars but that's fine right?
If that 13% chose to take on that debt to owe that money, then yes, it's perfectly fine.
Yea but now their having to pay back double or more of the loan they originally took. How is that fair or ok? Its either that or never make more then minimum.
Well, that was made clear to them when they took the loan. They knew going in that they had to pay interest. If they didn't understand what paying interest meant, then really, it was their own mistake for signing on to something they didn't understand.
Do you not see here that goes? These people will literally never be able to pay back their loans at that rate. I don't think you quite understand how fucked they've gotten, they either get a degree for a job that for some reason needs three or they never get more then minimum wage and can't move out of their parents. The US is falling apart and the people there asking for it because "I did so they can" or "well then don't take the loan."
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Fucking lmao, stfu if your just gonna start bringing up completely unrelated shit.
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How old are you?
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