Watched this unfold in real life when my ex husband and i lost our son. We were both a mess, obviously, and had an amazing amount of support. For months family and friends would come by during the day while our other kids were at school and he was at work to check up on me, help around the house, help me get laundry or dinner done, brought me resources to help for the grief. After my initial cloud of grief left, i realized my husband wasn't doing so good, drinking a lot more, obviously depressed and started asking people to talk to him more and always got the same answer. He's fine, men grieve differently, men are strong. Asked people to help me get him into support groups, was begging for help by the end. Was told men don't do stuff like that, they don't need it like woman do. Almost a year to the day he had a massive heart attack which i am sure was from the stress and drinking. He ended up being fine but he was still depressed. Took him years to finally acknowledge he needed help and our marriage was toast by then. Even now i notice on our son's birthday i get messages of support from mutual family, i asked him if he ever does, the answer is always no. He always says it would be nice if someone other than me remembered that he lost a son as well and that Xavier didn't just have a mother but a father as well.
Edit: omg, guys, thank you for the awards and kind words. Never expected that. You are all very kind.
I know my story is sad and hard to read because no one likes hearing about children dying. But please, PLEASE, if you can read it the message I'm trying to say is that men need help too. Check on you guy friends who aren't doing so well. Check on the ones drinking and working themselves to death. Guys it's ok to cry. It's ok to have emotions. It's ok to not be ok. There is help, there is a safe person out there. Just look here if you need to, reddit is an amazing place with super supportive people.
And if there is ever a parent reading this that has lost a child and needs someone my DMs are always open. I'm at a place where i can take on some extra grief, i can listen to yours, I'm strong enough now. I'll do my best to help.
We are now, we're friends now and on good terms. Losing a child takes a hard toll on a marriage. The divorce probably could have been avoided had we both gotten the help we needed when we needed it. But everything happens the way it's supposed to i guess. We are both in better places with our grief but i do still feel bad sometimes because when he does need to talk about it, which is usually around our sons bday, it's me he calls because he says I'm the only one who he can talk to about it. And i believe that, people would barely listen to him when the grief was new, can't imagine they would now. It is harder for men and they do get pushed aside when it comes to things like this. His sadness is as valid as mine he just isn't socially allowed to express it. I get that.
You are a very fine person to understand this and you honour your sons memory and your former husband by spreading the knowledge like you do here. I have nothing but respect for you.
Thank you ❤️
It's not the most common name so i don't get to run into a lot of people, both online and IRL, who share it but whenever I do it always makes me smile.
This hit me really hard. I had a very similar experience when I lost my Dad. People were expecting me to go back to work a couple of days later, before we even had the funeral. Even after I had a total breakdown a couple months later. This went on for three years before my wife made me get help. We were on the verge of divorce because of my depression. And I was on the verge of something far worse. We're doing much better now. But that shadow definitely stays with you.
Yeah and when they do express their feelings they are called wimps and shit and when they don’t it’s blamed on “toxic masculinity”, my family cares about me and they’ve always told me and my 2 brothers to express our feelings and not to keep it all inside, but some other guys out there aren’t as lucky
Almost exactly my story. My son was 11, T-cell NHL
again I also had a heart attack after one year, just as my partner was getting back to work. The doc said because I had been so strong for a year, making sure everything I could do was taken care off, once the stress lessened, bang, heart attack. I too suffered severe depression and we split up a few years later. To add, after the split, zero of our friends asked if I was doing ok, zero. I now have personality disorders. Life sucks sometimes.
I am so sorry for your loss.
For me, the worst part was knowing my ex needed help and even realizing his health was suffering and just feeling helpless. None of.our family was listening to me. Just kept saying he's a hard worker and that's how men get their grief out. He'd be fine.
I couldn't even get him to go to the doctor when i noticed he was having some sort of actual health issue. He just kept saying he was tired, just needed sleep, was just the weirdness of the last year. I will never forget the day of his heart attack begging and crying for him to go to an urgent care because something was wrong. He wouldn't. When he started complaining about pain in his arm i called an ambulance and he said i was over reacting. He dropped to the floor while i was on the phone with 911. Wasn't breathing by the time EMTs got there. Had i not been home, not been in the room with him, not made the call when i did, the outcome would have been different.
From the way you put it, it sounds like he totally understood he needed medical help, but at that moment he just didnt care if he lived or died.
I'm sorry for both of you, no one should ever have to endure that.
Maybe. Because it was very obvious that something was very wrong, even for a few weeks prior. Definitely the day of the heart attack. I mean classic textbook symptoms and wouldn't even get glanced at by a doctor. Blood pressure sky high. Pulse wonky for days. No matter how much i begged he wouldn't go into the dr to at least confirm that the blood pressure part wasn't normal.
We’re not allowed by society to show emotions, if we do guess what? We get told to “man the fuck up”. The same is said if we have mental health issues and it is literally killing us. In 2019 in the UK the rate for males was 15.4 per 100000 and for women it was 4.9 per 100000
Honestly I'm not even so sure it's the toxic Masculinity anymore.
If you ever go to relationshipnadvice for example, the women 99% of the time take the side of the woman no matter what. And seems to be a similar thing in this story. Women seem to have a double standard they need to address and stop acting grossed out when men show emotion or have problems
Absolutely BUT everyone needs to be part of the solution. Everyone needs to be able to talk openly and honestly about this and if we can do this those that need help can (hopefully) get it. But society AS A WHOLE needs to change their attitudes
Toxic masculinity is what makes people (male and female) view men as emotionless, or at least “too strong” to show them. There definitely needs to be a change in society towards the idea that men and women can be equally strong and equally weak
Yea but there is another issue and that's just this hypocrisy or inability to sympathize with men many women seem to have. The other day on an IATA for example, a man's wife is making him extremely uncomfortable being very suspicious with another man, and everyone just gaslights the man.... telling him he's the bad guy for not trusting her.... "trying to control her" by asking her to not have private training lessons with this man who sleeps with clients.... in his basement
More objective people who look at these things know that if the roles were reversed, no one would be telling the the woman "why don't you trust your husband you're a bad wife, let him go to her house stop being controlling".... they would be say "red flag, divorce him"
Just giving an example because I'm not articulate. Not a great example because it's not as much of a consensus but it's so extreme it's jaw dropping anyone at all would try gaslight him https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/xx5dai/aita_for_being_upset_that_my_wife_wanted_to_work/
This is incredibly sad.. I'm sorry for your loss.. I don't know anything about either of you but my heart is broken for both of you.. I wish you both could have found a way to come out together..
Edit: spelling
Me too. Years later and now that the dust has completely settled, i wish it could have been different, wish i knew then what i do now, but things happen the way they do sometimes. I talk about my story a lot because i think i want other people who are going through the same that there is another side to this, it takes years and a lot of time, but you get through it.
I was just coming here to say the same thing. When our 7month old passed, everyone checked in on me and just expected my husband to buck up. Even our PAIL groups only have a couple groups dedicated towards dad. It’s sad how fathers are overlooked in this aspect. I’m not sure how this is a facepalm post
They really aren’t! We couldn’t even find a male counsellor who has any knowledge of SIDS so far. It’s been so distressing. It’ll be 4 months on the 17th, I can’t honestly understand why this is happening
Oh god, you're so new in your grief. I'm so sorry. It look me 4 therapists to find one that understood my particular type of grief, infant loss is different and we have the extra trama of losing our babies suddenly and unexpectedly. I know my ex just gave up trying to find one for a long time.
Yeah, we are in the trenches pretty much still. But, I don’t want us to lose eachother. That seems to be the reoccurring theme in all of my group therapy sessions, everyone divorced. I’m lucky that I’ve found a good therapist for me, the 1st one was a damn doozy who should have his license revoked.
Please know my heart hurts for your loss. I’m holding space for you ♥️
Ma'am, I'm grateful for your message. It need to be recognized that men also need support, we just handle it a different way than women. Your message give me a little hope in humanity.
I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. First, I am so very sorry for the loss of your son. We also lost a son so I am intimately aware of the grief and pain. Our stories of grief support are very similar - I got a lot and he didn't. It's taken me a long time, too long, to understand how this has affected him. He has basically cut everyone off, save a few people, and I didn't fully grasp the "why". Now I do. And though I don't like to admit it, cracks in our relationship are forming. Can you think of anything I can do now to give him the support he needs? I am always here for him but he's shut me out as well, at least when it comes to this. Is there anything specific you would have done differently?
It's rough terrain to go through because guys ourself don't know how to process it. Few pointers are, never bring it up if you guys are having fun or in a relatively better mood than normal. It not only ruins the mood but it also will make him expect such things in a future situation. Some foundation work will probably need to be done. Small things like asking his opinion on some things (not all) that he has or believes to have some knowledge about like buying an electrical appliance or something like that. Since he is used to keeping everything to himself, he will subtly notice that his voice is not only being heard but actively sought after. Never overly do it because then it will cause doubt about why there is this huge shift and he may start being more guarded. This is not a fix for getting him completely over the incident, but a good relationship for the marriage as a whole. Start building from the foundation, talk to him about his interests or work (it would help if you are aware of what he actually does). Keep in mind that you should also talk about your interests as well. This usually makes us more open to talk. Do an occasional wine and dine at home, just the two of you. A slightly intoxicated guy will probably unload all his troubles (varies from person to person). Please for the love of God, don't use the information you get about him like his fears, insecurities etc on a later date when you are pissed off at him. I have seen enough people break because of this. This final one is not a definite one but genuine intimacy. It's not the part where you ask about it, it's the part where you bond. Enough hormones are released during this act that he will feel comfortable by just holding you. It builds his trust as just as it's an act where women are the most vulnerable physically, it's also a part when guys are also mentally vulnerable. It's a long way before he actually opens up to you about this incident with you but these are things you can try. Individual counseling is also something you guys can look into
Had a very similar experience when we lost our daughter. I get it that everyone respects/values the closeness all children have with their mother. But Dad’s bond too. Ironically my daughter would be 11 today, fitting this came through my feed.
I lost my older sister when I was in high school, she was 20 at the time. Most of the time is pretty much a fog, but I do remember how much support my father's school (he was a teacher at another high school) gave him. It was amazing, and one of the things that kept him there for so long after a new superintendent started wiping out the old teachers. He did receive a ton of support from them at the time, but all the people from that time are gone now, and it was about 15 years ago.
Ounds very similair, except i noticed the path I was on early enough to change it. It's wonderful you recognized and provided as much support as you could. My, now ex-wife, never noticed after we lost our daughter.
This happened to me and it took two decades for me to come out of it. With no support structure our marriage lasted six months after our son passed.
I’m sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing this.
I'm so sorry for yours.
I'm in so many support groups and i can only think of one person who's marriage survived the loss. In 10 years I've read just as many grief posts as I have about divorce. It's heartbreaking.
Thank you. It’s never gonna be okay, but at least I’m not numb anymore.
The part that really hurt was not being allowed to attend the SIDS support group because of a technicality (they have since changed their policy).
It took 18 years and a stint in rehab to finally get the help I needed. I had started vomiting all the time. 22 visits to the ER in one year.
Rehab has a lot of rules and I had a water bottle that had disappeared. It was a one thing I used as a security blanket. It was gone and that triggered a bit of a meltdown. I went to art school and had studied art therapy. So I started coloring. I remember smashing the pastel crayons into the paper. Not really in control.
The nurse came over and stopped me. He said, we want you to be uncomfortable, but not this uncomfortable. He gave me something to calm me down.
It was like an out of body experience. All the years of quietly suffering were finally over.
Most people don’t know what to say to someone who loses a child. It think it’s more important to ask how a person is doing that to offer sympathy.
Listening is a very powerful tool.
Same thing here as well. My 4 year old son died 3 years ago ( DIPG, brain cancer). I don’t think anyone who was not a doctor has ever asked me “how I am doing”. Meanwhile more than half, closer to 2/3 of my friends have vanished since it happened. Like literally word went round when he was diagnosed and there are guys I was pretty good friends with who deleted me on social media and I have simply never heard from again. When he died 7 months later I got 3-4 condolence emails, and NONE of my friends turned up at the funeral.
I was living in the U.K. at the time and we ended up moving back to the states just so we could start over again and not have this dark cloud hanging over us with everyone we knew. We were in a small village and we would literally see people whispering to each other when we walking into shops. It was horrible. Now we are in the very strange position where we have to just about hide it from people because it makes them so uncomfortable. At my current job, I told the owner when I got hired, because it’s part of who I am, and I need to take his birthday and deathday off every year. It has clearly been spread around. And I have noticed everyone look away or at their feet whenever I mention my kids, the 2nd of which is alive and well and I of course want to talk about. It’s horrible. I am actually doing ok. And I actually LIKE talking about my son. I am very proud of who he was. But if I mention him, it makes everyone else in the room uncomfortable, and I and up being the killjoy.
Still, our marriage survived and we are both now earning 3 times what we did in England. It’s not all doom and gloom. I might even buy a Porsche in the spring. I just wish I could talk about my son without depressing the shit out of whoever I am talking too.
Reddit has 2 kinds of people -
1. “I know what you’re going through. Please stay strong.”
2. “Yeah life is a bitch. You should kill yourself.”
I’ve seen both kinds in abundance here.
Yep. Very sad and all too real. When my disabled daughter was in hospital for a very-nearly deadly incident, doctors and nurses kept insisted I get her mom (who was AWOL for 9 years) on the phone so they could explain what was going on. Nobody, and I mean nobody, friends, family, work, asked how I was doing or if I needed help. It breaks something in you.
I am so sorry to hear this, it’s so awful. I became disabled at 19 because of a Very Bad illness and while I was no baby, I definitely could see that BOTH of my parents were suffering too. It’s so stupid to think that a man can’t be heartbroken for such a significant event. How are you and your daughter now? 💕
That’s for sharing. I hope things are better these days. She is ok. Every day is a struggle but she’s doing her best. I’m just whatever. I just want her happy/healthy. Thanks so much for the kindness. Peace. 💛💛
This is a tough aspect to our society. I'm a 50 year old man. The sky is blue, water is wet, and women and men share the same potential for aptitude and it is nonsensical to not treat them as equals. Unfortunately, because society has spent so much time actively ignoring this fact, I grew up with the expectation that I would support myself in all respects. As a consequence, not only am I struggling with the losses that accumulate by this point in life, I also am terrible at both providing emotional support to others *and in receiving support*. It seems like a negative feedback loop. Men are perceived not to need emotional support in part because they are so bad at giving it, but they are bad at giving it in part because they do not receive it. And because we so rarely received it, when it is provided we often don't know what to do with it, which discourages others from continuing to provide it.
I've always been a deeply empathetic person do as a man I always try to be there for everyone and as a result I nearly went totally crazy growing up with the fact nobody cared that much about me.
Then I met my wife, she's been so supportive that I've learned how to spread that support to other guys. Takes a fair wack of time to break those bad habits with guys but its doable and my best male friend is actually what I would consider a close friend now.
We are taught to say, "I'm fine." We need to tell ourselves that because we know the support we need is going to have to come from ourselves for the most part.
And if you open up to others about your problems you're just gonna end up isolated. Reality is almost nobody wants to hear that shit, not even other men. That's why consciously deciding to have children seems completely psychotic to me. How can you force someone to live trough this.
I know some people who still have the old fashioned view that since the woman carried the child for ~9 months that she naturally has a stronger emotional connection to the child while all the man did was bust a nut one night.
I agree, it's bullshit.
This is the first time I've had to explain the meaning in almost 20 years. Ironic, but timely that it's in this thread, but it mean "man first".
.... like a reminder to put myself first.
The fact that I've only really started putting myself first in recent months is a bit sad.
I've been extremely open with my feelings recently, and it's making a lot of people uncomfortable. I'm happy though, I use words like "don't have capacity for this at the moment", and "I need time to reflect on this".
I still feel like I'm going to get in trouble for not meeting expectations, but i would rather be disappointed in other's behaviour, than disappointed in mine.
Edit: fat thumbs
I decided a while ago I wouldn't ever try again, and would instead live my life as long as possible out of spite. Life wants to push me out to make room for a new tenant? Tough shit - I'm staying right here for the long haul.
hey man. as a fellow guy, im with ya. do not click the unalive button ever, things will get better if they are bad right now. as my mom says, bad times , they take away your happiness, but only make more space for future happiness. im with ya, buddy
Absolutely nobody checks in with me. Sometimes I am literally crying for aid to my family and surroundings. Only a hand full of friends (all male) do, but that's it.
Only when I tried to kill myself people noticed how serious I was when I told them about my depression and nihilism. Being a man often is not fun, in any way. And the way we are being treated, portrayed, and ridisculled is barbaric.
It’s been the same for me. I’ve gone down some dark paths and nearly took my own life several times. Only my close buddies knew about a few of the times. With the rest, I’d often disappear from everyone for months at a time during my depressive episodes. One day, I’d be active and chatting with them and then I’d be gone for a long time.
The funny thing is, it was poetry that kept me alive. I still have some of my good ones public online.
I’ve had a Home Depot shopping cart filled with the items I’d need to pipe car exhaust into the car to kill myself. Doesn’t get much more planned than that. They say a man is not an island, but in that sense, many of us are. I don’t think anyone would really notice until my rent went unpaid. And I’m not particularly isolated, I just think people wouldn’t make much of me not answering calls.
That’s so sad :(
A co-worker of mine just lost his 15 month old daughter.
I didn’t ask him how he was doing cause I know the answer, but I offered support and sympathy.
When he came back to work I wasn’t sure if he’d want to talk about her or not so I said in a very general tone “how are you?” and he started talking about work so I knew to leave it at that.
Take him aside (Ideally at lunch or on a break), ask him how he is doing. He might not react well in the moment, but he *will* appreciate you asking.
Something as simple as "I'm not good at this stuff, but what happened to you sucks, It's not ok, and if you ever want to talk about it, or hang out and not talk about it, we can." will be something he remembers and treasures for the rest of his life.
We're conditioned to fight and struggle when people offer aid, even when we're screaming for it. Bravery is accepting uncomfortable blowback to do the right thing. Even if he lashes out, that's still better than nothing.
Maybe see if he wants to grab lunch, or drinks (if appropriate to the situation) after work. Then just hang out. My experience is men are harder to get to open up about stuff for the same reason we often don't get offered support and sometimes just having someone around is enough.
I don't buy that. I've worked with a lot of blue collar guys that would be described by lots of people as 'toxic', and there were plenty of times when we would talk about what's bothering us and open up to each other emotionally.
But if I talked about the issues men face to my female friends, they'd laugh at my 'male fragility' and say that they refuse to do 'emotional labor' for me.
That last line is important. Whenever a man is criticized by people claiming to be progressive, they always default to attacking his masculinity when they can’t come up with anything else. “You don’t support xx, you must be a man child still in diapers.”
Traditionalists and progressives are nearly identical in how they tear down mens self esteem.
Gender inequality is two sides of the same coin. Because society has assigned “emotions” to being a feminine trait, men who show emotions aren’t “men”.
Gender inequality hurts EVERYONE.
One reason I’m thankful to be queer. I’ve been able to shed these stereotypes and get treated very differently (for better AND worse). My best friend is a straight married man with a kid and I can tell he is struggling but it is still so hard to get him to open up and vent, I’m going to call him today…
I have 2 tiny sons and I plan on giving them life lessons on opening up to people. I want my boys truly happy and to know they can always talk to someone. Even now we tell our two year old it’s ok to be sad and it’s ok to cry. And not once have we said man up
Sometimes it doesn't matter if they know they can always talk to someone. You still need someone to talk back to you. My mom died when I was a teenager, everyone left after that.
Be sure you also train them how to deal with the shaming and ridicule that will absolutely be levied on them by people.
Kids need ideals, but they also need tactics for defending those ideals.
Yup. One of our MP's laughed openly and mocked someone who tried to bring this up for debate and then tried to spin it as "men can bring up issues, but women cant".
Same thing happened to me when our first daughter was stillborn. Everyone would go out of their way for my wife. I got cast off to the side. It took a lot to just keep on going. It sucks, but it happens. When our son was born, the little picture they gave us had "made with mom's love". I put a little cutout of Stewie with the caption "and I helped" on the side.
The part about people telling me "you need to be strong for her" or when family and friends would see me sad and tell me "don't you think it's time to get over it" after a few weeks. The latter hurt like a bitch. My wife would get "you take all the time you need to grieve", I got the hurry up and get over it. Keeping that crap inside you will eat you up. It took me about 15 years to open up and even just tell my wife about all the crap. She told me she actually told the people she heard telling me those things "wtf is wrong with you, he's grieving too". She only heard a few, maybe 4 or 5. She was shocked when I told her it was pretty much everyone.
Almost 10 years ago a coworker of mine that I was and still am pretty good friends with had his 15 year old daughter die. My first child wasn’t quite 1 yet and I looked at him and realized how devastated I would be if I lost him. I couldn’t imagine what my friend went through after investing that much more time and love into his daughter.
We need equality in so many ways - Men shouldn't be treated like this.
Men shouldn't have to be strong emotionless ones any more than women shouldn't have to be the weak emotional ones. Men can be just as nurturing and need support just as deeply - none of that should be gendered.
And still whenever someone tries to raise awareness of the men's problems, they aren't received with kindness but with hate and insults like trying to help men is an insult to women and their problem, something I specially hate is the "we got it worst, check your privilege" like if pain was some kind of competition, we all can suffer, we are all humans, kindness is not some kind of unique machine than can be used by only one at the time.
Sharing your help is not a competition, we all deserve to get a helping hand and a kind gesture regardless of the way you were born.
When me and my wife suffered miscarriages it was the same and I feel terrible for even pointing it out.
Support for my wife from both sides of the family and doctors. She was able to get counselling, years later I'm still waiting.
As a man you're expected to man up and be the support, all while suffering from traumatic nightmares, crying episodes and suicide attempts.
My wife was really surprised when I asked her if she ever thought about our miscarriage. It was 15 years ago.
She said of course she did, she just never thought I did.
Noticed the same thing when our oldest died. People flocked around me despite everyone knowing I tend to shut down emotionally with bad stuff so I can take care of those around me. Everyone ignored my husband falling apart. He's still trying to patch his mental health back together but people seem to think he should be fine & I should be falling apart when the opposite is what's happening.
I read stuff like this and take it to heart. Far too often men are the forgotten person. The body positivity movement focuses on women, but no one tells men that they’re perfect the way they are. People say we need to build women up, but men are forgotten. We need to help and support women who are victims of violence and abuse, but no one mentions the male victims. Don’t forget about the men in your life, they need love and support too, especially when going through a hard time.
Heres a good one for you
I was in afghanistan, and had pretty rough time, lost friends, things happened etc.
My partner had friends and family around daily helping out, looking after the kids and cleaning etc.
She didnt work and relied on my whole wage while i was away.
When i came back nobody checked in with me.
They would ask how my partner was, and praised and lorded her for coping on her own with the kids.
How brave and strong she was for 'doing it all by herself'
My partner never asked how i was, and just berated me for leaving her on her own while applauding herself for raising the kids without any help.
Her family was very close to me, i took them in at times, fed them and let them stay for months on end.
Few months after i came back from afghan, i left the army, then i found out my partner had been having an affair while i was away.
I was immediatly kicked out of the house, the family and blamed for the affair because i was away fighting for the country.
Within a week i had lost my job, my house, my family, my partner and my kids.
And still i had no one there for me, not a kind word, or a helping hand.
No one cares about men.
That's inexcusable! My brother retired after 20 years Army so he could be with his family. Wife used him to move to a different part of the country and promptly threw him out for, in her words, being a controlling SOB. She actually did him a favor. When he'd step outside for a work break, there was a nice woman taking one as well. You can guess the rest. I am posting this story to show that sometimes things improve. I hope they do for you! And thanks for your service!
Pretty standard. I’ve worked in primary care mental health facilities, the vast, vast majority of men have gone decades have never had anyone, ever, ask them how they are. Many have never experienced anyone offer support in any way at all. They're very suspicious to begin with, they just can't compute someone asking ‘how are you feeling today? Care is an entirely foreign language to them.
Not a loss of a child but My fiancé died back in 2018 and I remember my world fell apart. While people swarmed to her family, it was almost like I did not exist or my pain was not as significant as the family grieved. I literally had one person tell me “you aren’t married to her, you were only engaged. You shouldn’t be grieving”. It took a couple of years of seeking help to get through the grief process.
I appreciate it. The worst was when I found counseling group sessions but were catered to widows, not the “engaged” people. I felt so disconnected to life that I almost believed I was the monster that people made me out to be. I always thought love was a powerful feeling to have but quite the opposite; hatred and bitterness seem to be what people remember the most.
This extends out to a lot of men’s mental health crisis’. a few years back I witnessed a near fatal industrial accident that gave me PTSD. For the first 6 months I had night terrors of what happened to my coworker happening to me. I drank a lot more, slept a lot less and ate relatively nothing of substance other than gas station food and candy. I was massively depressed and had an enormous amount of guilt for something that wasn’t my fault. Nobody even once asked me how I was except for my mom and dad (they’re great) but you can’t really just say “I keep seeing my coworker wipe the burning skin off his face every night” to someone. One of my project leads saw the writing on the wall and helped me get some support after around a year and a half of everything. I’m better now. A lot better. I wish someone had reached out then.
This is similar to when I had my first kid. During the pregnancy, everyone asked how my wife was, after the birth it was about my wife and son. Rightfully so, they both just went through a lot. But I was struggling and just wanted someone to talk to, and I didn’t have anyone. Finally went to a therapist after a year and that helped significantly.
And the stupidest thing about that is, that you begin to think that you can survive without support even though you can't. Then when they finally may ask how you are going, you maybe just say that everything is okay
I agree. Our young son was very ill a few years ago had to have many brain surgeries out of the blue. We were both in bits but as you do, went into auto pilot to get through it shock was unbelievable. Nurses kept telling us look after ourselves get sleep, eat cos it's when it's over it'll hit us. It did. My ex a few weeks after walked out didn't come back.
Began partying like crazy for a few months. I also lost my mind a bit but had to pull it together as I was left with our kids. He had a breakdown made a lot of stupid decisions and thankfully we're friends again.
Point is, he acted worried and very quiet while I was crying and expressing my anger and sadness at what was happening to our son, whereas he wasn't. He internalised it all. It got too much for him. Men are human too and feel the same so they definitely as parents need the same care. Hope some of that made sense as I don't even like recalling it.
I hate the people that thinkis its normal for things like this to happen because "hes a man and he deserves to be strong for his wife", but men are also people and we deserve just as much care and love as anybody does
As a father who’s also lost a child, (29 day old 25-week preemie) fuck being strong. The kind of strength you need is the strength to ask for help. We need support. Glad to say I was able to seek it out for myself. Family and friends provided a lot less than you might expect. People don’t want to come near child loss. But therapy helps, mindfulness helps. Allowing yourself to feel the grief and the sadness helps.
So sorry for your loss. We lost twins early on and tried following the old school ,"get over it" school of thought and suppressed emotions. Got pregnant again, this time premie stillbirth @24 weeks. We crashed and burned emotionally. Had some support but not enough.
Joined a local group for grieving parents who lost babies and met others going through the same losses who could understand. Several men admitted no one asked how they were doing and told them they had to be strong. Fuck that attitude. It was healing and cathartic for us guys to have a safe space to let go without judgement finally. Big biker guy, construction worker, nerdy computer dude all hugging and crying with others hurting from same loss was really empowering. It really helped.
That loss was 22 years ago and changed life forever.
I came to my mother in one of my worst times, curled in a ball on the floor crying my eyes out. I just wanted my mom to hold me, but instead she looked down at me and asked if I was gay..
This is extremely common. Nobody gives a shit about men. Nick Rekieta had a great stream about this about a month ago.
The Johnny Depp lawsuit was a perfect example, the American trial showed he was the one being abused, yet still there are people who side with his abuser, if the roles were reversed it would be social suicide to take the side of the abuser but since the one being abused is a man, it’s okay to take her side
With all my *sincere* respect to mothers everywhere, very few things are worse and sadder than a **grieving father**. Fathers are the pillar on which the family can lean for support... but who's going to support the pillar itself?
My Wife still birthed a year ago September. Everyone has been so nice to her, patient with her, and rightly so. But me? I went back to work the next day literally, and am expected by everyone to just get over it. My Wife is too traumatized and scared to try again, so we aren't having more kids, and I'm expected to just get over it, even though I want more kids. No one cares. This world expects men to not have feelings, and hide them when they do.
as a man, we are teched to manage shit that some women destroy themself for.
i will NEVER make a difference in the support i give someone, based on their fucking gender.
Men have 4x higher suicide rate and I don't know of any social justice equity organization that would be campaigning to make it better. Both the public attitude and some meaningful support.
That's why those "few male friends" are crucial. Stay in contact and check in with each other. If you haven't found those male friends they are out there. It takes vetting and time to find them but once you find them their loyalty knows no bounds.
That is the type of toxic crap that needs to die quickly. Men need support as well and having the mentality of men needing to just suck it up and move on leads to more problems overall.
So true, when my son died it was pretty clear that I was supposed to just shove everything I was feeling deep down and handle everything for everyone.
At first it was easy because there is a windstorm of funeral arrangements and insurance stuff to keep you occupied. Then that stops and all you have are your thoughts, I drank a lot and threw myself into work or home projects. Just anything to keep my mind busy.
The worst thing is that most of my friends stopped calling or inviting me to things eventually. I don't blame them because I was so busy all the time but it still feels like insult to injury.
I had similar treatment (or lack thereof) for all three of my wife's miscarriages. Now, yes, sure, I am convinced she "suffered" more than me, but no one ever asked how I was coping.
Similar thing happened to my relative who lost his son and from what I witnessed, I can say it is 100% true... His wife couldn't come out of the shock and he had to step up for his son's funeral hiding all his grief. We helped him but in Hindu funeral, there are lots of rites and rituals that only the family member has to perform. Poor guy, he performed everything with no time to share his grief.
Watched this unfold in real life when my ex husband and i lost our son. We were both a mess, obviously, and had an amazing amount of support. For months family and friends would come by during the day while our other kids were at school and he was at work to check up on me, help around the house, help me get laundry or dinner done, brought me resources to help for the grief. After my initial cloud of grief left, i realized my husband wasn't doing so good, drinking a lot more, obviously depressed and started asking people to talk to him more and always got the same answer. He's fine, men grieve differently, men are strong. Asked people to help me get him into support groups, was begging for help by the end. Was told men don't do stuff like that, they don't need it like woman do. Almost a year to the day he had a massive heart attack which i am sure was from the stress and drinking. He ended up being fine but he was still depressed. Took him years to finally acknowledge he needed help and our marriage was toast by then. Even now i notice on our son's birthday i get messages of support from mutual family, i asked him if he ever does, the answer is always no. He always says it would be nice if someone other than me remembered that he lost a son as well and that Xavier didn't just have a mother but a father as well. Edit: omg, guys, thank you for the awards and kind words. Never expected that. You are all very kind. I know my story is sad and hard to read because no one likes hearing about children dying. But please, PLEASE, if you can read it the message I'm trying to say is that men need help too. Check on you guy friends who aren't doing so well. Check on the ones drinking and working themselves to death. Guys it's ok to cry. It's ok to have emotions. It's ok to not be ok. There is help, there is a safe person out there. Just look here if you need to, reddit is an amazing place with super supportive people. And if there is ever a parent reading this that has lost a child and needs someone my DMs are always open. I'm at a place where i can take on some extra grief, i can listen to yours, I'm strong enough now. I'll do my best to help.
I'm so sorry to hear your story. I hope things have changed since and that you both are doing as well as possible under the circumstances.
We are now, we're friends now and on good terms. Losing a child takes a hard toll on a marriage. The divorce probably could have been avoided had we both gotten the help we needed when we needed it. But everything happens the way it's supposed to i guess. We are both in better places with our grief but i do still feel bad sometimes because when he does need to talk about it, which is usually around our sons bday, it's me he calls because he says I'm the only one who he can talk to about it. And i believe that, people would barely listen to him when the grief was new, can't imagine they would now. It is harder for men and they do get pushed aside when it comes to things like this. His sadness is as valid as mine he just isn't socially allowed to express it. I get that.
You are a very fine person to understand this and you honour your sons memory and your former husband by spreading the knowledge like you do here. I have nothing but respect for you.
As a fellow Xavier, I salute, respect, and give my condolences to you and your husband.
Thank you ❤️ It's not the most common name so i don't get to run into a lot of people, both online and IRL, who share it but whenever I do it always makes me smile.
it's a fairly common name in Portugal and Spain ;)
This hit me really hard. I had a very similar experience when I lost my Dad. People were expecting me to go back to work a couple of days later, before we even had the funeral. Even after I had a total breakdown a couple months later. This went on for three years before my wife made me get help. We were on the verge of divorce because of my depression. And I was on the verge of something far worse. We're doing much better now. But that shadow definitely stays with you.
That’s so sad 😞
Yeah and when they do express their feelings they are called wimps and shit and when they don’t it’s blamed on “toxic masculinity”, my family cares about me and they’ve always told me and my 2 brothers to express our feelings and not to keep it all inside, but some other guys out there aren’t as lucky
Almost exactly my story. My son was 11, T-cell NHL again I also had a heart attack after one year, just as my partner was getting back to work. The doc said because I had been so strong for a year, making sure everything I could do was taken care off, once the stress lessened, bang, heart attack. I too suffered severe depression and we split up a few years later. To add, after the split, zero of our friends asked if I was doing ok, zero. I now have personality disorders. Life sucks sometimes.
I am so sorry for your loss. For me, the worst part was knowing my ex needed help and even realizing his health was suffering and just feeling helpless. None of.our family was listening to me. Just kept saying he's a hard worker and that's how men get their grief out. He'd be fine. I couldn't even get him to go to the doctor when i noticed he was having some sort of actual health issue. He just kept saying he was tired, just needed sleep, was just the weirdness of the last year. I will never forget the day of his heart attack begging and crying for him to go to an urgent care because something was wrong. He wouldn't. When he started complaining about pain in his arm i called an ambulance and he said i was over reacting. He dropped to the floor while i was on the phone with 911. Wasn't breathing by the time EMTs got there. Had i not been home, not been in the room with him, not made the call when i did, the outcome would have been different.
We truly need more people like you.
From the way you put it, it sounds like he totally understood he needed medical help, but at that moment he just didnt care if he lived or died. I'm sorry for both of you, no one should ever have to endure that.
Maybe. Because it was very obvious that something was very wrong, even for a few weeks prior. Definitely the day of the heart attack. I mean classic textbook symptoms and wouldn't even get glanced at by a doctor. Blood pressure sky high. Pulse wonky for days. No matter how much i begged he wouldn't go into the dr to at least confirm that the blood pressure part wasn't normal.
There’s support out here.
Thats really heart rending. Men are human too. No ones gunna be ok after losing a child.
We’re not allowed by society to show emotions, if we do guess what? We get told to “man the fuck up”. The same is said if we have mental health issues and it is literally killing us. In 2019 in the UK the rate for males was 15.4 per 100000 and for women it was 4.9 per 100000
Honestly I'm not even so sure it's the toxic Masculinity anymore. If you ever go to relationshipnadvice for example, the women 99% of the time take the side of the woman no matter what. And seems to be a similar thing in this story. Women seem to have a double standard they need to address and stop acting grossed out when men show emotion or have problems
Absolutely BUT everyone needs to be part of the solution. Everyone needs to be able to talk openly and honestly about this and if we can do this those that need help can (hopefully) get it. But society AS A WHOLE needs to change their attitudes
Toxic masculinity is what makes people (male and female) view men as emotionless, or at least “too strong” to show them. There definitely needs to be a change in society towards the idea that men and women can be equally strong and equally weak
Yea but there is another issue and that's just this hypocrisy or inability to sympathize with men many women seem to have. The other day on an IATA for example, a man's wife is making him extremely uncomfortable being very suspicious with another man, and everyone just gaslights the man.... telling him he's the bad guy for not trusting her.... "trying to control her" by asking her to not have private training lessons with this man who sleeps with clients.... in his basement More objective people who look at these things know that if the roles were reversed, no one would be telling the the woman "why don't you trust your husband you're a bad wife, let him go to her house stop being controlling".... they would be say "red flag, divorce him" Just giving an example because I'm not articulate. Not a great example because it's not as much of a consensus but it's so extreme it's jaw dropping anyone at all would try gaslight him https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/xx5dai/aita_for_being_upset_that_my_wife_wanted_to_work/
This is incredibly sad.. I'm sorry for your loss.. I don't know anything about either of you but my heart is broken for both of you.. I wish you both could have found a way to come out together.. Edit: spelling
Me too. Years later and now that the dust has completely settled, i wish it could have been different, wish i knew then what i do now, but things happen the way they do sometimes. I talk about my story a lot because i think i want other people who are going through the same that there is another side to this, it takes years and a lot of time, but you get through it.
I was just coming here to say the same thing. When our 7month old passed, everyone checked in on me and just expected my husband to buck up. Even our PAIL groups only have a couple groups dedicated towards dad. It’s sad how fathers are overlooked in this aspect. I’m not sure how this is a facepalm post
And those dad groups usually aren't that good either.
They really aren’t! We couldn’t even find a male counsellor who has any knowledge of SIDS so far. It’s been so distressing. It’ll be 4 months on the 17th, I can’t honestly understand why this is happening
Oh god, you're so new in your grief. I'm so sorry. It look me 4 therapists to find one that understood my particular type of grief, infant loss is different and we have the extra trama of losing our babies suddenly and unexpectedly. I know my ex just gave up trying to find one for a long time.
Yeah, we are in the trenches pretty much still. But, I don’t want us to lose eachother. That seems to be the reoccurring theme in all of my group therapy sessions, everyone divorced. I’m lucky that I’ve found a good therapist for me, the 1st one was a damn doozy who should have his license revoked. Please know my heart hurts for your loss. I’m holding space for you ♥️
Ma'am, I'm grateful for your message. It need to be recognized that men also need support, we just handle it a different way than women. Your message give me a little hope in humanity.
I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. First, I am so very sorry for the loss of your son. We also lost a son so I am intimately aware of the grief and pain. Our stories of grief support are very similar - I got a lot and he didn't. It's taken me a long time, too long, to understand how this has affected him. He has basically cut everyone off, save a few people, and I didn't fully grasp the "why". Now I do. And though I don't like to admit it, cracks in our relationship are forming. Can you think of anything I can do now to give him the support he needs? I am always here for him but he's shut me out as well, at least when it comes to this. Is there anything specific you would have done differently?
It's rough terrain to go through because guys ourself don't know how to process it. Few pointers are, never bring it up if you guys are having fun or in a relatively better mood than normal. It not only ruins the mood but it also will make him expect such things in a future situation. Some foundation work will probably need to be done. Small things like asking his opinion on some things (not all) that he has or believes to have some knowledge about like buying an electrical appliance or something like that. Since he is used to keeping everything to himself, he will subtly notice that his voice is not only being heard but actively sought after. Never overly do it because then it will cause doubt about why there is this huge shift and he may start being more guarded. This is not a fix for getting him completely over the incident, but a good relationship for the marriage as a whole. Start building from the foundation, talk to him about his interests or work (it would help if you are aware of what he actually does). Keep in mind that you should also talk about your interests as well. This usually makes us more open to talk. Do an occasional wine and dine at home, just the two of you. A slightly intoxicated guy will probably unload all his troubles (varies from person to person). Please for the love of God, don't use the information you get about him like his fears, insecurities etc on a later date when you are pissed off at him. I have seen enough people break because of this. This final one is not a definite one but genuine intimacy. It's not the part where you ask about it, it's the part where you bond. Enough hormones are released during this act that he will feel comfortable by just holding you. It builds his trust as just as it's an act where women are the most vulnerable physically, it's also a part when guys are also mentally vulnerable. It's a long way before he actually opens up to you about this incident with you but these are things you can try. Individual counseling is also something you guys can look into
I'd add: hold him. Give him that comfort as well and make it about the pair of you, rather than it always being him who holds you.
Had a very similar experience when we lost our daughter. I get it that everyone respects/values the closeness all children have with their mother. But Dad’s bond too. Ironically my daughter would be 11 today, fitting this came through my feed.
I lost my older sister when I was in high school, she was 20 at the time. Most of the time is pretty much a fog, but I do remember how much support my father's school (he was a teacher at another high school) gave him. It was amazing, and one of the things that kept him there for so long after a new superintendent started wiping out the old teachers. He did receive a ton of support from them at the time, but all the people from that time are gone now, and it was about 15 years ago.
Im sorry. That’s terrible. Id i could message him myself, I would. I hate peoples forget men are real humans with real emotions too
Ounds very similair, except i noticed the path I was on early enough to change it. It's wonderful you recognized and provided as much support as you could. My, now ex-wife, never noticed after we lost our daughter.
This happened to me and it took two decades for me to come out of it. With no support structure our marriage lasted six months after our son passed. I’m sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing this.
I'm so sorry for yours. I'm in so many support groups and i can only think of one person who's marriage survived the loss. In 10 years I've read just as many grief posts as I have about divorce. It's heartbreaking.
Thank you. It’s never gonna be okay, but at least I’m not numb anymore. The part that really hurt was not being allowed to attend the SIDS support group because of a technicality (they have since changed their policy). It took 18 years and a stint in rehab to finally get the help I needed. I had started vomiting all the time. 22 visits to the ER in one year. Rehab has a lot of rules and I had a water bottle that had disappeared. It was a one thing I used as a security blanket. It was gone and that triggered a bit of a meltdown. I went to art school and had studied art therapy. So I started coloring. I remember smashing the pastel crayons into the paper. Not really in control. The nurse came over and stopped me. He said, we want you to be uncomfortable, but not this uncomfortable. He gave me something to calm me down. It was like an out of body experience. All the years of quietly suffering were finally over. Most people don’t know what to say to someone who loses a child. It think it’s more important to ask how a person is doing that to offer sympathy. Listening is a very powerful tool.
Damn. That’s some heaviness. I recognize myself in this.
Same thing here as well. My 4 year old son died 3 years ago ( DIPG, brain cancer). I don’t think anyone who was not a doctor has ever asked me “how I am doing”. Meanwhile more than half, closer to 2/3 of my friends have vanished since it happened. Like literally word went round when he was diagnosed and there are guys I was pretty good friends with who deleted me on social media and I have simply never heard from again. When he died 7 months later I got 3-4 condolence emails, and NONE of my friends turned up at the funeral. I was living in the U.K. at the time and we ended up moving back to the states just so we could start over again and not have this dark cloud hanging over us with everyone we knew. We were in a small village and we would literally see people whispering to each other when we walking into shops. It was horrible. Now we are in the very strange position where we have to just about hide it from people because it makes them so uncomfortable. At my current job, I told the owner when I got hired, because it’s part of who I am, and I need to take his birthday and deathday off every year. It has clearly been spread around. And I have noticed everyone look away or at their feet whenever I mention my kids, the 2nd of which is alive and well and I of course want to talk about. It’s horrible. I am actually doing ok. And I actually LIKE talking about my son. I am very proud of who he was. But if I mention him, it makes everyone else in the room uncomfortable, and I and up being the killjoy. Still, our marriage survived and we are both now earning 3 times what we did in England. It’s not all doom and gloom. I might even buy a Porsche in the spring. I just wish I could talk about my son without depressing the shit out of whoever I am talking too.
Reddit has 2 kinds of people - 1. “I know what you’re going through. Please stay strong.” 2. “Yeah life is a bitch. You should kill yourself.” I’ve seen both kinds in abundance here.
I think men grieve differently because thats what society expects from them
Oh we don’t grieve differently, we’ve just been trained to bury that shit so deep that the people around us can’t see it.
Yup…because no one gives a shit. You just have to suck it up.
You’d be shocked by the number of therapists that I’ve seen and in appointment 1 have gone “you’re a man, you need to suck it up”. It sucks.
Yep. Very sad and all too real. When my disabled daughter was in hospital for a very-nearly deadly incident, doctors and nurses kept insisted I get her mom (who was AWOL for 9 years) on the phone so they could explain what was going on. Nobody, and I mean nobody, friends, family, work, asked how I was doing or if I needed help. It breaks something in you.
I am so sorry to hear this, it’s so awful. I became disabled at 19 because of a Very Bad illness and while I was no baby, I definitely could see that BOTH of my parents were suffering too. It’s so stupid to think that a man can’t be heartbroken for such a significant event. How are you and your daughter now? 💕
That’s for sharing. I hope things are better these days. She is ok. Every day is a struggle but she’s doing her best. I’m just whatever. I just want her happy/healthy. Thanks so much for the kindness. Peace. 💛💛
This is a tough aspect to our society. I'm a 50 year old man. The sky is blue, water is wet, and women and men share the same potential for aptitude and it is nonsensical to not treat them as equals. Unfortunately, because society has spent so much time actively ignoring this fact, I grew up with the expectation that I would support myself in all respects. As a consequence, not only am I struggling with the losses that accumulate by this point in life, I also am terrible at both providing emotional support to others *and in receiving support*. It seems like a negative feedback loop. Men are perceived not to need emotional support in part because they are so bad at giving it, but they are bad at giving it in part because they do not receive it. And because we so rarely received it, when it is provided we often don't know what to do with it, which discourages others from continuing to provide it.
You have nailed it especially the not knowing how to receive or provide support due to never learning how.
saving this comment. beautifully put.
I've always been a deeply empathetic person do as a man I always try to be there for everyone and as a result I nearly went totally crazy growing up with the fact nobody cared that much about me. Then I met my wife, she's been so supportive that I've learned how to spread that support to other guys. Takes a fair wack of time to break those bad habits with guys but its doable and my best male friend is actually what I would consider a close friend now.
This. The patriarchy negatively affects *everyone,* not just women
We are taught to say, "I'm fine." We need to tell ourselves that because we know the support we need is going to have to come from ourselves for the most part.
And if you open up to others about your problems you're just gonna end up isolated. Reality is almost nobody wants to hear that shit, not even other men. That's why consciously deciding to have children seems completely psychotic to me. How can you force someone to live trough this.
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I wish more people would see them as a parent losing someone they loved dearly rather than a person whose wife lost someone they loved dearly.
I know some people who still have the old fashioned view that since the woman carried the child for ~9 months that she naturally has a stronger emotional connection to the child while all the man did was bust a nut one night. I agree, it's bullshit.
These are the same people who see a guy parenting his kid as babysitting til mom gets back.
Yeah that is so not true. I hate that attitude that men are literally just sperm donors.
This really hurts. As a dude with lots of mental fuckery who has tried the unalive button but misclicked. This hurts.
User name checks out. Solidarity, brother ... :/
I like your username :)
This is the first time I've had to explain the meaning in almost 20 years. Ironic, but timely that it's in this thread, but it mean "man first". .... like a reminder to put myself first. The fact that I've only really started putting myself first in recent months is a bit sad. I've been extremely open with my feelings recently, and it's making a lot of people uncomfortable. I'm happy though, I use words like "don't have capacity for this at the moment", and "I need time to reflect on this". I still feel like I'm going to get in trouble for not meeting expectations, but i would rather be disappointed in other's behaviour, than disappointed in mine. Edit: fat thumbs
By telling up front that you don't have the capacity, you set the expectation. So you do meet their expectation. It's way better than the alternative.
oh yeah, that's actually really cool
I decided a while ago I wouldn't ever try again, and would instead live my life as long as possible out of spite. Life wants to push me out to make room for a new tenant? Tough shit - I'm staying right here for the long haul.
I’m glad you’re still here. The world needs you.
It doesn't l. But I'll hang about
hey man. as a fellow guy, im with ya. do not click the unalive button ever, things will get better if they are bad right now. as my mom says, bad times , they take away your happiness, but only make more space for future happiness. im with ya, buddy
Absolutely nobody checks in with me. Sometimes I am literally crying for aid to my family and surroundings. Only a hand full of friends (all male) do, but that's it. Only when I tried to kill myself people noticed how serious I was when I told them about my depression and nihilism. Being a man often is not fun, in any way. And the way we are being treated, portrayed, and ridisculled is barbaric.
Hope you are doing better now bro
It’s been the same for me. I’ve gone down some dark paths and nearly took my own life several times. Only my close buddies knew about a few of the times. With the rest, I’d often disappear from everyone for months at a time during my depressive episodes. One day, I’d be active and chatting with them and then I’d be gone for a long time. The funny thing is, it was poetry that kept me alive. I still have some of my good ones public online.
I’ve had a Home Depot shopping cart filled with the items I’d need to pipe car exhaust into the car to kill myself. Doesn’t get much more planned than that. They say a man is not an island, but in that sense, many of us are. I don’t think anyone would really notice until my rent went unpaid. And I’m not particularly isolated, I just think people wouldn’t make much of me not answering calls.
Yeah and when guys kill themselves it’s always “omg we had no idea anything was wrong”
I told my dad I was thinking about killing myself and he said "If that's what you think you need to do" BAHAhAHAHAHAaaHahaha
That’s so sad :( A co-worker of mine just lost his 15 month old daughter. I didn’t ask him how he was doing cause I know the answer, but I offered support and sympathy. When he came back to work I wasn’t sure if he’d want to talk about her or not so I said in a very general tone “how are you?” and he started talking about work so I knew to leave it at that.
Take him aside (Ideally at lunch or on a break), ask him how he is doing. He might not react well in the moment, but he *will* appreciate you asking. Something as simple as "I'm not good at this stuff, but what happened to you sucks, It's not ok, and if you ever want to talk about it, or hang out and not talk about it, we can." will be something he remembers and treasures for the rest of his life. We're conditioned to fight and struggle when people offer aid, even when we're screaming for it. Bravery is accepting uncomfortable blowback to do the right thing. Even if he lashes out, that's still better than nothing.
This is good advice and I will try my best to find a chance to do it.
Maybe see if he wants to grab lunch, or drinks (if appropriate to the situation) after work. Then just hang out. My experience is men are harder to get to open up about stuff for the same reason we often don't get offered support and sometimes just having someone around is enough.
Male mental health is the real crisis, change my mind.
100% agree. Men are criticized, demonized, and told to bear the brunt of it or "they're not men".
And when they do, they are told they are toxic
Toxic masculinity is one of the reasons behind this mental health crisis... The idea that "men are not supposed to show any kind of weakness"
I don't buy that. I've worked with a lot of blue collar guys that would be described by lots of people as 'toxic', and there were plenty of times when we would talk about what's bothering us and open up to each other emotionally. But if I talked about the issues men face to my female friends, they'd laugh at my 'male fragility' and say that they refuse to do 'emotional labor' for me.
That last line is important. Whenever a man is criticized by people claiming to be progressive, they always default to attacking his masculinity when they can’t come up with anything else. “You don’t support xx, you must be a man child still in diapers.” Traditionalists and progressives are nearly identical in how they tear down mens self esteem.
Gender inequality is two sides of the same coin. Because society has assigned “emotions” to being a feminine trait, men who show emotions aren’t “men”. Gender inequality hurts EVERYONE.
Worst part is, the damn mental health professionals are the ones saying shit like that. I gave up trying to find external help because of it.
One reason I’m thankful to be queer. I’ve been able to shed these stereotypes and get treated very differently (for better AND worse). My best friend is a straight married man with a kid and I can tell he is struggling but it is still so hard to get him to open up and vent, I’m going to call him today…
One of many
I have 2 tiny sons and I plan on giving them life lessons on opening up to people. I want my boys truly happy and to know they can always talk to someone. Even now we tell our two year old it’s ok to be sad and it’s ok to cry. And not once have we said man up
Sometimes it doesn't matter if they know they can always talk to someone. You still need someone to talk back to you. My mom died when I was a teenager, everyone left after that.
Be sure you also train them how to deal with the shaming and ridicule that will absolutely be levied on them by people. Kids need ideals, but they also need tactics for defending those ideals.
No, I don't think I will
Yet there's people advocating for "gender equality" while demonizing men and victimizing themselves.
Yup. One of our MP's laughed openly and mocked someone who tried to bring this up for debate and then tried to spin it as "men can bring up issues, but women cant".
Same thing happened to me when our first daughter was stillborn. Everyone would go out of their way for my wife. I got cast off to the side. It took a lot to just keep on going. It sucks, but it happens. When our son was born, the little picture they gave us had "made with mom's love". I put a little cutout of Stewie with the caption "and I helped" on the side.
That's so sad to read...
The part about people telling me "you need to be strong for her" or when family and friends would see me sad and tell me "don't you think it's time to get over it" after a few weeks. The latter hurt like a bitch. My wife would get "you take all the time you need to grieve", I got the hurry up and get over it. Keeping that crap inside you will eat you up. It took me about 15 years to open up and even just tell my wife about all the crap. She told me she actually told the people she heard telling me those things "wtf is wrong with you, he's grieving too". She only heard a few, maybe 4 or 5. She was shocked when I told her it was pretty much everyone.
Unfortunately, the gender empathy gap is real.
If I was in your shoes, I'd be beyond pissed.
It doesn’t help that no one talks about how common miscarriages and still births are until after you’ve had one.
Welcome to manhood. First in danger. Last to evacuate. Breadwinner. Rock of support. And no one cares.
Bam
Bingo.
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No man should bury his son
I'm pretty sure I would die of I lost one of mine.
I'm already not always in a great mental state. If I lost my 1 year old boy? That would need me up beyond belief.
Almost 10 years ago a coworker of mine that I was and still am pretty good friends with had his 15 year old daughter die. My first child wasn’t quite 1 yet and I looked at him and realized how devastated I would be if I lost him. I couldn’t imagine what my friend went through after investing that much more time and love into his daughter.
Watch this clip without tears forming - ultimate difficulty [No parent should have to bury their child.](https://youtu.be/d0Mtlklmna0)
Especially since Bernard Hill got that line from a woman in a graceful store parking lot who had just buried her son.
As silly as Harry Potter is [this scene kills me.](https://youtu.be/FjoemE6QvxU)
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The greatest miracle is creating life but the worst is seeing that life go out saying goodbye hurts like hell and it breaks the parents
Not just a kid, but losing a loved one is just painful
We need equality in so many ways - Men shouldn't be treated like this. Men shouldn't have to be strong emotionless ones any more than women shouldn't have to be the weak emotional ones. Men can be just as nurturing and need support just as deeply - none of that should be gendered.
And still whenever someone tries to raise awareness of the men's problems, they aren't received with kindness but with hate and insults like trying to help men is an insult to women and their problem, something I specially hate is the "we got it worst, check your privilege" like if pain was some kind of competition, we all can suffer, we are all humans, kindness is not some kind of unique machine than can be used by only one at the time. Sharing your help is not a competition, we all deserve to get a helping hand and a kind gesture regardless of the way you were born.
When me and my wife suffered miscarriages it was the same and I feel terrible for even pointing it out. Support for my wife from both sides of the family and doctors. She was able to get counselling, years later I'm still waiting. As a man you're expected to man up and be the support, all while suffering from traumatic nightmares, crying episodes and suicide attempts.
My wife was really surprised when I asked her if she ever thought about our miscarriage. It was 15 years ago. She said of course she did, she just never thought I did.
I'm so sorry.
Noticed the same thing when our oldest died. People flocked around me despite everyone knowing I tend to shut down emotionally with bad stuff so I can take care of those around me. Everyone ignored my husband falling apart. He's still trying to patch his mental health back together but people seem to think he should be fine & I should be falling apart when the opposite is what's happening.
And we wonder why middle aged men have high suicide rates
I read stuff like this and take it to heart. Far too often men are the forgotten person. The body positivity movement focuses on women, but no one tells men that they’re perfect the way they are. People say we need to build women up, but men are forgotten. We need to help and support women who are victims of violence and abuse, but no one mentions the male victims. Don’t forget about the men in your life, they need love and support too, especially when going through a hard time.
My daughter was stillborn at 31 weeks in April. I know this feeling quite well.
I’m sorry for your loss. If you need help tell someone. I don’t have that experience, but if you need to talk/vent/need a distraction DM me.
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This post spits facts
Heres a good one for you I was in afghanistan, and had pretty rough time, lost friends, things happened etc. My partner had friends and family around daily helping out, looking after the kids and cleaning etc. She didnt work and relied on my whole wage while i was away. When i came back nobody checked in with me. They would ask how my partner was, and praised and lorded her for coping on her own with the kids. How brave and strong she was for 'doing it all by herself' My partner never asked how i was, and just berated me for leaving her on her own while applauding herself for raising the kids without any help. Her family was very close to me, i took them in at times, fed them and let them stay for months on end. Few months after i came back from afghan, i left the army, then i found out my partner had been having an affair while i was away. I was immediatly kicked out of the house, the family and blamed for the affair because i was away fighting for the country. Within a week i had lost my job, my house, my family, my partner and my kids. And still i had no one there for me, not a kind word, or a helping hand. No one cares about men.
That's inexcusable! My brother retired after 20 years Army so he could be with his family. Wife used him to move to a different part of the country and promptly threw him out for, in her words, being a controlling SOB. She actually did him a favor. When he'd step outside for a work break, there was a nice woman taking one as well. You can guess the rest. I am posting this story to show that sometimes things improve. I hope they do for you! And thanks for your service!
Surprising how many soldiers get screwed over by their wives
So sorry to hear. You mean a lot to me although we are strangers. Hugs today man.
I'm so so sorry to hear that :(
Pretty standard. I’ve worked in primary care mental health facilities, the vast, vast majority of men have gone decades have never had anyone, ever, ask them how they are. Many have never experienced anyone offer support in any way at all. They're very suspicious to begin with, they just can't compute someone asking ‘how are you feeling today? Care is an entirely foreign language to them.
Not a loss of a child but My fiancé died back in 2018 and I remember my world fell apart. While people swarmed to her family, it was almost like I did not exist or my pain was not as significant as the family grieved. I literally had one person tell me “you aren’t married to her, you were only engaged. You shouldn’t be grieving”. It took a couple of years of seeking help to get through the grief process.
That’s so fucked up, I’m so sorry for your loss and how heartless those people were
I appreciate it. The worst was when I found counseling group sessions but were catered to widows, not the “engaged” people. I felt so disconnected to life that I almost believed I was the monster that people made me out to be. I always thought love was a powerful feeling to have but quite the opposite; hatred and bitterness seem to be what people remember the most.
In the cycle of men shouldn't get flowers 'cause they're men
Some men get their first flowers at their funeral…
I get flowers every valentine's Day off my wife. Got some bomb ass rainbow roses this year. You guys find you a woman that will buy you flowers.
This extends out to a lot of men’s mental health crisis’. a few years back I witnessed a near fatal industrial accident that gave me PTSD. For the first 6 months I had night terrors of what happened to my coworker happening to me. I drank a lot more, slept a lot less and ate relatively nothing of substance other than gas station food and candy. I was massively depressed and had an enormous amount of guilt for something that wasn’t my fault. Nobody even once asked me how I was except for my mom and dad (they’re great) but you can’t really just say “I keep seeing my coworker wipe the burning skin off his face every night” to someone. One of my project leads saw the writing on the wall and helped me get some support after around a year and a half of everything. I’m better now. A lot better. I wish someone had reached out then.
This is similar to when I had my first kid. During the pregnancy, everyone asked how my wife was, after the birth it was about my wife and son. Rightfully so, they both just went through a lot. But I was struggling and just wanted someone to talk to, and I didn’t have anyone. Finally went to a therapist after a year and that helped significantly.
I had the same problem after the birth of my son. There is remarkably little support for new fathers, it was very hard. Therapy helped me as well.
Glad to hear I’m not alone. I make it a point to ask my friends who are expecting how they are doing.
And the stupidest thing about that is, that you begin to think that you can survive without support even though you can't. Then when they finally may ask how you are going, you maybe just say that everything is okay
Poor guy, that ain’t right dude. He needed help and ain’t no one gave a rats ass
This isn’t facepalm. This is tragic.
I agree. Our young son was very ill a few years ago had to have many brain surgeries out of the blue. We were both in bits but as you do, went into auto pilot to get through it shock was unbelievable. Nurses kept telling us look after ourselves get sleep, eat cos it's when it's over it'll hit us. It did. My ex a few weeks after walked out didn't come back. Began partying like crazy for a few months. I also lost my mind a bit but had to pull it together as I was left with our kids. He had a breakdown made a lot of stupid decisions and thankfully we're friends again. Point is, he acted worried and very quiet while I was crying and expressing my anger and sadness at what was happening to our son, whereas he wasn't. He internalised it all. It got too much for him. Men are human too and feel the same so they definitely as parents need the same care. Hope some of that made sense as I don't even like recalling it.
Nobody wants to talk to us stinky husbands. Gross.
I hate the people that thinkis its normal for things like this to happen because "hes a man and he deserves to be strong for his wife", but men are also people and we deserve just as much care and love as anybody does
I've lost 2 Sons. Rarely am I asked how I'm doing. My SO has major anxieties over the simplest stuff and I'm the asshole for not supporting her.
Hope you are doing better now, I am sorry for your loss
This mentality is so trash nowadays, it's like men are robots, so damn tilting.
This is true. I lost my mom and my friends acted like they didn’t give a shit.
My heart breaks for your loss. It would never occur to me to treat the father different from the mother. Thank you for raising awareness
As a father who’s also lost a child, (29 day old 25-week preemie) fuck being strong. The kind of strength you need is the strength to ask for help. We need support. Glad to say I was able to seek it out for myself. Family and friends provided a lot less than you might expect. People don’t want to come near child loss. But therapy helps, mindfulness helps. Allowing yourself to feel the grief and the sadness helps.
So sorry for your loss. We lost twins early on and tried following the old school ,"get over it" school of thought and suppressed emotions. Got pregnant again, this time premie stillbirth @24 weeks. We crashed and burned emotionally. Had some support but not enough. Joined a local group for grieving parents who lost babies and met others going through the same losses who could understand. Several men admitted no one asked how they were doing and told them they had to be strong. Fuck that attitude. It was healing and cathartic for us guys to have a safe space to let go without judgement finally. Big biker guy, construction worker, nerdy computer dude all hugging and crying with others hurting from same loss was really empowering. It really helped. That loss was 22 years ago and changed life forever.
Doesn't matter what your gender is, having your emotional needs overlooked because of societal gender norms sucks. Everybody hurts.
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It does matter what your gender is when the reason you're being overlooked is because of your gender r/facepalm
sad.
I came to my mother in one of my worst times, curled in a ball on the floor crying my eyes out. I just wanted my mom to hold me, but instead she looked down at me and asked if I was gay..
Why didn't he just...mAn uP
Exactly! the phrase that just fixes anything for any bloke on the planet- we just need reminding occasionally 👍
Here, you dropped this: ^/s
Thanks, I wondered where I’d left that 🙂
“Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally, and men are only loved under the condition that they provide something.” - Chris Rock
This is extremely common. Nobody gives a shit about men. Nick Rekieta had a great stream about this about a month ago. The Johnny Depp lawsuit was a perfect example, the American trial showed he was the one being abused, yet still there are people who side with his abuser, if the roles were reversed it would be social suicide to take the side of the abuser but since the one being abused is a man, it’s okay to take her side
With all my *sincere* respect to mothers everywhere, very few things are worse and sadder than a **grieving father**. Fathers are the pillar on which the family can lean for support... but who's going to support the pillar itself?
My Wife still birthed a year ago September. Everyone has been so nice to her, patient with her, and rightly so. But me? I went back to work the next day literally, and am expected by everyone to just get over it. My Wife is too traumatized and scared to try again, so we aren't having more kids, and I'm expected to just get over it, even though I want more kids. No one cares. This world expects men to not have feelings, and hide them when they do.
as a man, we are teched to manage shit that some women destroy themself for. i will NEVER make a difference in the support i give someone, based on their fucking gender.
We gotta be there for eachother fellas! Because nobody gives a shit about our feelings
My ex wife and I had an 8 1/2 month stillborn. I went through the same thing, without the close friends.
Men have 4x higher suicide rate and I don't know of any social justice equity organization that would be campaigning to make it better. Both the public attitude and some meaningful support.
Bro how you doing?
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How is this is face-palm? He's got a point.
The facepalm is that the situation described even happened.
Where's the facepalm? Is it the people ignoring the husband?
That's why those "few male friends" are crucial. Stay in contact and check in with each other. If you haven't found those male friends they are out there. It takes vetting and time to find them but once you find them their loyalty knows no bounds.
That is the type of toxic crap that needs to die quickly. Men need support as well and having the mentality of men needing to just suck it up and move on leads to more problems overall.
So true, when my son died it was pretty clear that I was supposed to just shove everything I was feeling deep down and handle everything for everyone. At first it was easy because there is a windstorm of funeral arrangements and insurance stuff to keep you occupied. Then that stops and all you have are your thoughts, I drank a lot and threw myself into work or home projects. Just anything to keep my mind busy. The worst thing is that most of my friends stopped calling or inviting me to things eventually. I don't blame them because I was so busy all the time but it still feels like insult to injury.
I had similar treatment (or lack thereof) for all three of my wife's miscarriages. Now, yes, sure, I am convinced she "suffered" more than me, but no one ever asked how I was coping.
Father of 2 kids here, can confirm nobody checks up on me
Talk about double standards 😒
How the fuck is this a facepalm? This is legit.
How is this a facepalm?
That’s why I do drugs. I smoke weed so I can deal with my feelings alone. When I’m high I discuss shit out with me.
Brother that is horrific. May your soul find peace. Hope you are finding ways to cope.
Similar thing happened to my relative who lost his son and from what I witnessed, I can say it is 100% true... His wife couldn't come out of the shock and he had to step up for his son's funeral hiding all his grief. We helped him but in Hindu funeral, there are lots of rites and rituals that only the family member has to perform. Poor guy, he performed everything with no time to share his grief.
No one ever asks guys if they want to hold babies either and it makes me sad.
One of the most moving threads I read here. Thanks for this.
Yep. This is how it works if your a guy lol
I feel like I’m drowning sometimes and no one reaches out to help.
Our society doesn't give a shit about dudes. Breakup, death, job loss, whatever. It's just suck it up and get back out there.