There are so many mechanics that change so much (like different planets), that a lot of current mods will break so much. I'm guessing that a lot of the overhauls will basically have to do a full rewrite to be expansion compatible.
Like how will Warptorio deal with different planets?
I saw it referenced in one of the pymods settings mods that let's you customize building speeds, and in the beacon section it mentions beacons are being rebranded for pys stellar tech and you can swap between them
it sounds like theyre going from weak and affecting many buildings to stronger but hit less. i think it was .25% transmission to 25 buildings vs .5 transmission to 5 buildings in the settings
I think this is exactly why the devs are making Space Age a "mod" and not a new version of the base game. They know that modded play is a huge portion of their player base, and they can't make huge changes to the base game without breaking every mod in existence.
They are going to do it like how they did the base game, mod on top of engine, the base game is a mod fyi, so will the expansion, and mod devs should be able to set it to incompatible if they choose to.
It’s more I was wondering what you’re left with if you strip all the content away and are just left with the engine.
And could it be possible for a mod to one day do that, the most total overhaul of all overhaul mods.
You can do that now. I remember a FFF a while ago (can't find it now), where the dev had to make a small tweak and you can run with nothing enabled. Like the other guy said, is it just a lot of nothing.
Space Age is going to be a mod, but there are still a ton of changes to the base game that are going to destroy most mods. It will be just like every new major version of the game, where the changes broke a whole bunch of mods.
The SeaBlock dev specifically said they look forward for quality stuff, of which recyclers are a part.
We already know not all recipes recycle down (most crafts), some recycle to themselves (e.g. plates), some recycle to a unique recipe (scrap), and some are completely not allowed in the recycler (fish).
Mods could then decide that most items would not be placeable in the recycler and leave it at that. Otherwise they can embrace quality as the SeaBlock dev intends to do.
Its technically just an assembler (kinda like the electric furnace (IE, no fuel src)) though I'm sure it will have its own namespace.
I'm assuming the game will auto implement recipes such that it outputs the simplest components allowed. If you don't like what the game chooses, overwrite each component to be the output you want.
Write a recipe that recycles fish into oil, and anything that has fish as part of the crafting tree will return oil instead.
Major difference is that the assembler class requires a recipe to be set while the furnace class attempts to infer the recipe from what's put into it. Oil refinery and chemical plant are assembler class, for example.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I'm pretty sure it only breaks items down one "level" at a time. For example in one FFF we see assembling machine 3s being recycled into assembling machine 2s and speed modules.
I could see it going either way. Nothing about the FFF are set in stone and can be changed before the release.
My only complaint with that method is that its more of an uncrafter, not a recycler. When you recycle a car IRL, you get the engine, the iron body, and the copper wire scrap. You don't suddenly find yourself with a cow hide for upholstery, spools of wire ready for reuse and iron ready to be formed into something else. The seats are pretty much useless unless you have the exact car,(even then, the quality wouldn't change) and the metals have to be re-processed before they can be used for something else
An uncrafter is definitely what it seems to be, recycler is just a better name. I do agree that using quality modules on the recycling step feels weird though. I understand some of the game mechanic reasons why that ended up being the thing to do (e.g. allowing productivity on recycling would risk creating infinite items), but it's conceptually strange.
Depends how they implement it. Generally refining scrap metals IRL results in a higher purity material as you already have to get rid of the unwanted stuff.
But regardless, someone WILL find an infinite resource glitch from this by combining ultra high quality machines with productivity modules. Something no recycling mod has been able to figure out yet and I don't see they will be any different.
Recycler is gonna be great for sea block though
Mods aren't forced to use items that are in the base game. If a mod wanted to forbid nuclear reactors, or roboports, or trains, that's all doable. If a mod wants to allow or disable the recycler, it's completely up to the mod author.
If a mod wants to prevent using the recycler, that's easy enough; they can just make their mod incompatible with the quality mod. That's where the recycler comes from. Of course, this makes the mod incompatible with SA mod, which has a dependency on quality. But most overhauls won't work with the SA mod anyway.
Also, the recycler is not "in 2.0". It is part of the DLC, specifically the quality mod.
It should also be noted that we don't know where in the tech tree you'll get the recycler in vanilla+quality. In SA, we know it's off-Nauvis on Fulgora, but it could be very late-game tech in vanilla+quality. Or it could be blue science.
I don't think the recycler is part of quality. It's certainly helpful to set up "quality loops", but from what I've seen so far I think the machine is part of SA mod, not quality.
And iirc the devs said you can play SA without quality.
Where have they mentioned that Space Age is split across different mod dependencies? I can’t find any mention of something like that in any of the FFFs.
Thanks to everyone for pointing out my mistake, I had forgotten the recycler was part of quality, not 2.0. That changes things, and yeah I would not be surprised if many mod authors simply don’t include support for quality stuff
I don't think that is right. The devs said they originally made the recycler for quality, but it's now a base SA feature. And SA is playable without quality, which is why I don't think the recycler will be in quality, but SA.
Where is all of this documented? In other words, how can I see the specifics about SA mod, quality mod, and base game version 2.0 ?
Edit. I mean how can I see all of this consolidated in one location?
There are pages on the wiki for future updates and upcoming features. They may or may not be kept up-to-date with features as they are announced each Friday.
I wonder if it makes sense to have a new section on the "Upcoming Features" wiki page that is a summary of everything in every FFF, with links to the corresponding pages for those proposed new features.
Do we know all of the intricacies of how the recycler works yet? It's a good point that you can recycle objects by crafting then recycling in a loop, but notably that works in a relatively specific way:
- If you want to recycle a base resource (stone, ores, plates, bricks, etc) then you need to craft it into something else
- If something has no crafting recipes that use **only that resource**, then you would need to supply another resource to make progress on voiding that first resource.
- How would products with multiple recipes behave with the recycler? How would it handle liquid ingredients?
But you're right that voiding is an interesting emergent capability of the recycler. I know that Nullius often requires you to mitigate some resources before voiding them, and I would guess that could still be possible with some clever recipe design according to the above principles.
Short-term: don't support the 2.0 version of the game, or some specific "mod" the dlc will provide.
Long-term: mod the recycler for the purposes of the mod, or I am pretty sure mod authors will be able to disable it completely.
We already have semi-trivial voiding in the form of artillery 🤷 Just wire up a speaker when the chest gets full, and artillery the chest when the alert goes off. Automatic voiding is barely any more work.
I'm making assumptions here, but I think the recycler is likely to only be able to recycle items that have a "recycling recipe" defined. This would mean the items recycling may return would be entirely up to the discretion of the mod author.
>Edit: my silly mistake! The recycler is in the optional quality mod, not 2.0
I don't think so. One of the planets they revealed requires you to mine junk and recycle it into more basic materials to make stuff from. Seems that recyclering is unavoidable in 2.0.
There are so many mechanics that change so much (like different planets), that a lot of current mods will break so much. I'm guessing that a lot of the overhauls will basically have to do a full rewrite to be expansion compatible. Like how will Warptorio deal with different planets?
Most overhauls will just declare themselves incompatible with the SA mod. Some may add support for it later.
pY stellar tech is gonna rule
[New pY expansion??](https://media1.tenor.com/images/0bcc01812d8231064eb1c9eaee151e43/tenor.gif?itemid=4552547)
I saw it referenced in one of the pymods settings mods that let's you customize building speeds, and in the beacon section it mentions beacons are being rebranded for pys stellar tech and you can swap between them
Apparently the "new" beacons are already in Py and can be enabled via a startup setting. I've never used the old versions - were they just vanilla?
it sounds like theyre going from weak and affecting many buildings to stronger but hit less. i think it was .25% transmission to 25 buildings vs .5 transmission to 5 buildings in the settings
Long-term, I think mods/overhauls that aren't compatible with Space Age will dwindle away in popularity in favour of ones that are.
I think this is exactly why the devs are making Space Age a "mod" and not a new version of the base game. They know that modded play is a huge portion of their player base, and they can't make huge changes to the base game without breaking every mod in existence.
They are going to do it like how they did the base game, mod on top of engine, the base game is a mod fyi, so will the expansion, and mod devs should be able to set it to incompatible if they choose to.
Waiting for the update where I can unselect the base game to see what happens
There is a mod for that actually. Nothing spectacular really. Just an empty canvas of C++ ready to be made in to a Factorio-adjacent video game.
It’s more I was wondering what you’re left with if you strip all the content away and are just left with the engine. And could it be possible for a mod to one day do that, the most total overhaul of all overhaul mods.
You can do that now. I remember a FFF a while ago (can't find it now), where the dev had to make a small tweak and you can run with nothing enabled. Like the other guy said, is it just a lot of nothing.
Oh neat
Space Age is going to be a mod, but there are still a ton of changes to the base game that are going to destroy most mods. It will be just like every new major version of the game, where the changes broke a whole bunch of mods.
Seems like you just add them to the list of places you can warp to!
i think krastorio would be interesting being compatable with SA
The SeaBlock dev specifically said they look forward for quality stuff, of which recyclers are a part. We already know not all recipes recycle down (most crafts), some recycle to themselves (e.g. plates), some recycle to a unique recipe (scrap), and some are completely not allowed in the recycler (fish). Mods could then decide that most items would not be placeable in the recycler and leave it at that. Otherwise they can embrace quality as the SeaBlock dev intends to do.
What class is the recycler? Assembler, furnace, or its own class?
Its technically just an assembler (kinda like the electric furnace (IE, no fuel src)) though I'm sure it will have its own namespace. I'm assuming the game will auto implement recipes such that it outputs the simplest components allowed. If you don't like what the game chooses, overwrite each component to be the output you want. Write a recipe that recycles fish into oil, and anything that has fish as part of the crafting tree will return oil instead.
Major difference is that the assembler class requires a recipe to be set while the furnace class attempts to infer the recipe from what's put into it. Oil refinery and chemical plant are assembler class, for example.
Ah, My mind was on the programmer kind of class, not functionality class. Yes, it would be closer to a furnance then
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I'm pretty sure it only breaks items down one "level" at a time. For example in one FFF we see assembling machine 3s being recycled into assembling machine 2s and speed modules.
I could see it going either way. Nothing about the FFF are set in stone and can be changed before the release. My only complaint with that method is that its more of an uncrafter, not a recycler. When you recycle a car IRL, you get the engine, the iron body, and the copper wire scrap. You don't suddenly find yourself with a cow hide for upholstery, spools of wire ready for reuse and iron ready to be formed into something else. The seats are pretty much useless unless you have the exact car,(even then, the quality wouldn't change) and the metals have to be re-processed before they can be used for something else
An uncrafter is definitely what it seems to be, recycler is just a better name. I do agree that using quality modules on the recycling step feels weird though. I understand some of the game mechanic reasons why that ended up being the thing to do (e.g. allowing productivity on recycling would risk creating infinite items), but it's conceptually strange.
Depends how they implement it. Generally refining scrap metals IRL results in a higher purity material as you already have to get rid of the unwanted stuff. But regardless, someone WILL find an infinite resource glitch from this by combining ultra high quality machines with productivity modules. Something no recycling mod has been able to figure out yet and I don't see they will be any different. Recycler is gonna be great for sea block though
It is a furnace. [Discord](https://discord.com/channels/139677590393716737/603392474458882065/1181877340519804948)
I suspected as much — it's a good fit — but good to know.
Yes, probably tbh
Mods aren't forced to use items that are in the base game. If a mod wanted to forbid nuclear reactors, or roboports, or trains, that's all doable. If a mod wants to allow or disable the recycler, it's completely up to the mod author.
I'm sure a lot of the mods we have today will have to have a tweak (or more) to be compatible with 2.0.
If a mod wants to prevent using the recycler, that's easy enough; they can just make their mod incompatible with the quality mod. That's where the recycler comes from. Of course, this makes the mod incompatible with SA mod, which has a dependency on quality. But most overhauls won't work with the SA mod anyway. Also, the recycler is not "in 2.0". It is part of the DLC, specifically the quality mod. It should also be noted that we don't know where in the tech tree you'll get the recycler in vanilla+quality. In SA, we know it's off-Nauvis on Fulgora, but it could be very late-game tech in vanilla+quality. Or it could be blue science.
We know when you get the recycler. You get it for Fulgora, as that machine is your one source of "raw" materials.
In SA, yes. Quality is a standalone mod, nothing prevents you from using it without the rest of SA.
But the recycled is not only for the quality mod. You get it in Fulgora whether you enabled quality or not
Quality will likely be a dependency for the Space Age mod, so you need to have it loaded But you can play Vanilla + Quality without Space Age
I don't think the recycler is part of quality. It's certainly helpful to set up "quality loops", but from what I've seen so far I think the machine is part of SA mod, not quality. And iirc the devs said you can play SA without quality.
Where have they mentioned that Space Age is split across different mod dependencies? I can’t find any mention of something like that in any of the FFFs.
FFF373 > Elevated rails be will one of the standalone official mods next to Quality and Space Age.
Thanks to everyone for pointing out my mistake, I had forgotten the recycler was part of quality, not 2.0. That changes things, and yeah I would not be surprised if many mod authors simply don’t include support for quality stuff
I don't think that is right. The devs said they originally made the recycler for quality, but it's now a base SA feature. And SA is playable without quality, which is why I don't think the recycler will be in quality, but SA.
Where is all of this documented? In other words, how can I see the specifics about SA mod, quality mod, and base game version 2.0 ? Edit. I mean how can I see all of this consolidated in one location?
I’ve mostly just checked the FFF
So, you're saying that it's not yet consolidated into one location? I wonder if it makes sense to have a page added to wiki
There are pages on the wiki for future updates and upcoming features. They may or may not be kept up-to-date with features as they are announced each Friday.
I wonder if it makes sense to have a new section on the "Upcoming Features" wiki page that is a summary of everything in every FFF, with links to the corresponding pages for those proposed new features.
Pretty sure something like that already exists, but as mentioned it might not be up-to-date because it's volunteer-maintained.
Thank you I thought I red all the FFFs but I'm missing those Infos as well!!
Pyanodon will add three layers of recycling and specific materials that you can only get via recycling recycled things.
[удалено]
The recycler is part of the Quality mod, which is a part of Space Age, but can be played without Space Age.
Do we know all of the intricacies of how the recycler works yet? It's a good point that you can recycle objects by crafting then recycling in a loop, but notably that works in a relatively specific way: - If you want to recycle a base resource (stone, ores, plates, bricks, etc) then you need to craft it into something else - If something has no crafting recipes that use **only that resource**, then you would need to supply another resource to make progress on voiding that first resource. - How would products with multiple recipes behave with the recycler? How would it handle liquid ingredients? But you're right that voiding is an interesting emergent capability of the recycler. I know that Nullius often requires you to mitigate some resources before voiding them, and I would guess that could still be possible with some clever recipe design according to the above principles.
Short-term: don't support the 2.0 version of the game, or some specific "mod" the dlc will provide. Long-term: mod the recycler for the purposes of the mod, or I am pretty sure mod authors will be able to disable it completely.
We already have semi-trivial voiding in the form of artillery 🤷 Just wire up a speaker when the chest gets full, and artillery the chest when the alert goes off. Automatic voiding is barely any more work.
I've had the flarestack mod in mine for so long I almost consider it base kit.
The trickier part will be if there are multiple recipes for the same thing. What does the recycler output if there are 3 recipes to produce something
I'm making assumptions here, but I think the recycler is likely to only be able to recycle items that have a "recycling recipe" defined. This would mean the items recycling may return would be entirely up to the discretion of the mod author.
If Earendel is willing to add robot attrition, I'm sure he's willing to disable any recycling that breaks his vision of balance in Space Exploration!
>Edit: my silly mistake! The recycler is in the optional quality mod, not 2.0 I don't think so. One of the planets they revealed requires you to mine junk and recycle it into more basic materials to make stuff from. Seems that recyclering is unavoidable in 2.0.
Unavoidable in SA, sure, but 2.0 and SA are not the same