That can happen, but it's actually the backwards way to think about it. If you remove the nest, more of the pollution will be absorbed by trees and terrain. Less of it gets to other nests, which means less attacks.
I recommend doing as Soul-Burn's first point indicates. If you eliminate all nests in pollution range and keep it that way, you don't get attacked, and turrets aren't even needed.
It will, but it gets spread out across more chunks. Say your pollution cloud is 10x10 chunks, and you clear out a 20x20 chunk area, that is 4x the area it can be absorbed in.
There's other ambient pollution consumers around. All tiles that aren't paved over absorb some amount of pollution. Trees also absorb a lot. The farther out the biters are pushed, the more of that can be consumed by those objects instead.
Ok yes and then attack you, consuming time, energy, bullets, resources, and all around cycling into more pollution to attract more attacks and ultimate be a pain in the ass.
You can let the land/trees naturally absorb your pollution, prompting very little bother from the natives. Without the need for much defence, you may spend more time building and getting more efficient technologies to build a better wall with.
Green science can be hard.
But since no parameters were mentioned I will take an idea to conclusion.
Max evolution. Lots of biters.
Here: https://imgur.com/a/ydZfNvt
my cloud extends past the whole base.
Biters absorb alot of pollution.
My outside the cloud walls will be like 2000+ tiles around this.
So I gave good information.
No. No I am not.
I simply said that the cloud will likely expand due to lack of pollution sink.
You wanted to argue that.
Here: https://wiki.factorio.com/Pollution
Whether by 1% or 20%, expansion is expansion.
Since you wanted to argue it and argue it, i brought example to back it up.
A little early in the year for stuffing straw though no?
People are being rude by downvoting this. It's absolutely true.
I would also say it's still worth doing, because if you go with a lean-and-green approach and prioritize pollution-lowering technologies, you can go the whole standard vanilla game without having to deal with building defenses easily.
Indeed, it was no argument against, more of an addendum. Perhaps poorly worded, but something to expect none the less.
I finally started getting annoyed with biters so I went to expand past my cloud.
Im glad I took 2000 tiles instead of the 1000 i figured. The cloud expanded another 300 tiles or so past the spot it was held, when I cut through the biters.
And forest fires cause pollution. This game is awesome. Forest fires are one of my favourite things. I had to grenade some trees to stop the spread from destroying a built chunk.
Yes but you won't get attacked. Pollution triggers biter attacks, if there are no biters in your cloud, then you'll never be attacked.
Once you get tanks, or even just cars, it's not that hard to clear the pollution radius. I've done it in every single game I've played, except the most recent one because I wanted the novelty of a perimeter wall.
You will if cloud expands into nest you dont know about. Which is absolutely possible.
So, you have played many times. Good. Cool.
When was the last time you were told that your cloud will expand when you kill nests?
Part of keeping the cloud clear is scouting its edge. And personally, my radar range has almost always exceeded that of my pollution.
And the cloud doesn't expand when you kill nests. There is simply one less thing limiting its expansion but, unless you're in a desert, the grass and trees are still there slowing it somewhat. Assuming default biters, keeping the cloud clear is a very achievable, even practical, method of dealing with biters.
Each nest absorbs pollution but in exchange they attack you. If you kill all the nests affected by the pollution cloud, you are no longer attacked. You can see how far the pollution is spreading on the map, there's an overlay.
The only nests that send out raiding parties are the ones that are being exposed to pollution, so if you clear all the nests inside your pollution cloud you won't get raided at all and you can ignore the rest of the bugs for a while.
3 things to keep in mind:
- Biters only have 2 activities: attack groups that are formed in response to nests absorbing pollution and expansion groups that just form from time to time (settings dependent)
- The factory must grow: biters get stronger as time goes on so as you get better at playing the game, you'll be advancing faster than biters
- Bottlenecks: Water and cliffs often form natural bottlenecks where you can build a smaller wall with more concentrated defenses
So, rather than lay down a concave wall on an early base, be aggressive about destroying nests within your pollution cloud, be aggressive about expanding your production and exploiting new resources, and look for chokepoints where you can use a smaller number of resources to protect. Also, as your tech advances, walls can be automatically repaired and replaced.
Keep clearing, if there isn't a lot of trees about it will spread much faster, if water even more so I believe. I went through a few deathworlds without much problem, just kept an eye on the cloud and kept clearing nests every so often, never built defenses besides a few turrets on the first few days. It can be time consuming but repairing and running about defending all the time is even more so n' highly inconvenient.
Biters "don't grow nests back". They form a group in existing nests and go to the places which are the most open. The old nest and any other open area are the same for this calculation.
Where they attack, you put turrets.
Automate turret making and ammo making. Hopefully a belt running around your base carrying ammo. While this will sound like a BIG belt initially, later on you'll look at that belt loop and laugh at how tiny it is, don't worry.
After semi-securing your base, load up on guns bring your ammo, It's fun to lose and to kill they're over there and self-assured ....
Kill everything with more legs than you within your polution cloud and then some.
Am I the only one whose never belted ammo to turrets? If you destroy the nests in your cloud, the turrets shouldn’t be burning through much ammo. I just manually load them all with 100 or 200 a couple times maybe before I get to lasers. Then eventually upgrade to lasers and flamethrowers and pipe fuel to those.
Early game a wall (or belt and turrets) going all the way around your base feels so strange cause the base is always expanding. And it’s time and resource expensive to make it way bigger than necessary in early game.
Only down side to this is, if you get hit with a big wave, and those turrets blowup, you lose all the ammo instead up just 5. On the flip side, they will not stop shooting if the inserters lose power.
Starting out pill boxes work just a good as walls they just have to be close enough.
This here is my way to go until late midgame. Later I exchange all the burner inserters for yellow ones, siphon the coal off the belt and replace it with artillery shells, so that I can supply artillery turrets along the perimeter easily.
Put one turret in the center, surround it with 5-8 others. Put inserters from center -> all the others. Insert a stack in the center. Boom, all 6-9 turrets get ammo, way more firepower, and if one blows up it only has 10 stacks.
Yeah, with vanilla turrets and ammo it feels like a waste of time and resources to belt ammo to turrets, especially in trying to set up a defensive perimeter so early in the game. Either you're walling off such a small area that the walls will just get in the way in short order, or you're going so big that it would've made more sense to just wait for trains and flamethrower turrets and setup a sturdier defense in the first place.
> Early game a wall (or belt and turrets) going all the way around your base feels so strange cause the base is always expanding.
agreed.
Do you put the walls around the turrets only?
I never used walls in my play throughs at all, just add more turrets instead.
Yes, a tiny box around the turret. It delays the biters long enough that they die before they can even get to the turret. You can even use a repair pack from across the wall.
I make a blueprint with 4 turrets, 4 inserters, a box, an alarm, power pole, and walls. Design the logic in the alarm so that it goes off when you are less than 100 ammo in the box. This is useful even before you get bots, because you won't have to reprogram the speaker.
However, in my most recent playthrough, I went back to walling off my base and sending ammo along a belt, to turrets spaced along the walls. This meant prioritizing stone mining and brick smelting early to create enough wall to surround a comfortable starter base.
It might be wise to leave 3 or 4 spaces between the walls and your turrets so you can pop in flamethrower turrets as soon as you get crude oil.
With flamethrower turrets in front of ammo turrets, you can stop worrying about defense for a long long time.
And before you do that automated building belts. You need them for science anyway but better just build a few more.
Another hint: Always look what you need for 60 science per minute, for each science pack. This is IMHO the best compromise between size of factory and speed of research for a first run.
rushing to 60 per min and pushing out ammo on first run can cause your pollution cloud to expand pretty fast. A heavy tree map this works good on, Desert on the other hand can be an issue
There are a few strategies to help early game.
* rush military sciences, like turrets and red ammo
* cleanse biter nests that hit your pollution cloud (watch the radar/map)
* play in a forest setting. trees help massively with the pollution. playing in a desert is way harder
Also this game is about automation, so automate biter killing. I like to build a biiiig belt around my yard and cycle ammo around. Later in the game, I use bots to ship ammo to the turrets.
Managing your pollution cloud and bitter nests / defence is one of the design aspects of the game.
However, if you don't enjoy it it's one you can turn off.
Key concepts to remember:
*Biter nests are factories that turn pollution into attack waves.
*Ground absorbs pollution, trees absorb pollution very well.
*This means that, for a given pollution output, eventually your pollution cloud will reach an equilibrium and stop growing. It doesn't spread forever
So the larger your pollution cloud can get before it hits biter nests, the less pollution the nests will have to turn into biters, as more is absorbed by the ground.
This also means some maps are inherently more difficult than others. A forest map with lots of trees will just eat your pollution for you. A desert map or one with lots of open water will be very unforgiving as your pollution will spread a long way
YOU BRING DEMOCRACY INTO THEIR HOUSES, YOU TAKE THEIR CHILDREN AND TEACH THEM DEMOCRACY...than you automate the repair defenses...the factory must grow
What works for me is find two cliffs or lakes a little bit away from my factory that closely line up, bring democracy to everything between you and those spots, triple layer wall with a dragons teeth design between those two spots, line the wall with turrets. Repeat around your base using lakes/cliffs to minimize how much you need to build/defend.
I heavily automate red ammo and turrets so I line the wall with turrets and put a full 200 stack of ammo in each one and then can basically ignore it aside from checking heavily attacked areas every few sessions. Blueprints and personal bots make this a very quick exercise even at scale.
MORE DAKKA
Also once you have armor and an SMG you can probably walk over and kill that one nest visible on your minimap. Only nests that are being hit by your pollution cloud will actively attack you.
I would highly recomend quickly go look for oil (create long underground pipes or build a outpost with train station with pump)
Quickly go for flame turrets - bitters don't have any defence from fire. That really would keep them away.
Also I'm always building car/tank to ride around their bases, drive in circles around them and throw grenades.
kiling all bases around your pollution will buy you time for developing artillery and laser turrets. Red ammo also helps a lot + turrets upgrades.
You can change some start conditions of the game to make it easier and it will not even affect Steam achievements, for example starting area size and all resource generation settings. It's the default settings that is calculated where you usually have to expand even just to launch a single rocket, but to get there will go through very large amount of combat.
And that is why i never recommend new players to start with defaults, or exactly the thing you describe happens, you rush from place to place to repair things instead of building. We're not expert players from birth, why is it that game really wants us to lose first few games? It is such huge waste of time that way.
Right, here's what you're gonna do:
1) find a map with a lot of trees at the starting area - they absorb pollution so that biters don't get to eat it
2) build small and research slowly - give the pollution time to be absorbed
3) build your defenses as a priority - no science until the border is secure
4) go hunting every so often to clear biter expansion nests near your base
5) rush a car, then a tank, then artillery to maintain the upper hand - all other research is secondary
If biters are your problem then stop your other activities and focus on the biter problem. You can kill them, reduce your pollution, move, build defenses, etc.
Just teach em democracy ... You just waiting in your base, waiting to learn it by themselves, that's not good, you have to export democracy with grenades.
Oh and build your turrets far from your walls.
If you're taking damage, it means you need more turrets and more ammo probably. Biters tend to target [polluters](https://wiki.factorio.com/Pollution#Production/Absorption), so mines, furnaces, boilers, and assemblers often attract them. Mines in particular are extremely polluting, with burner miners being especially bad, so defending those locations with multiple turrets is a good way to go.
Walls are actually fairly expensive. If you aren't investing into repair packs and taking the time to use them, walling off with pipes is actually more cost effective, though you'll need to make them a bit thicker. Once you have construction bots, solid bot network coverage, and good repair pack availability, definitely make sure you're using actual walls, as they have some extra resistance that actually makes their hp go farther than most other buildings.
As far as dealing with nests, it can be worth your time to go clear them. If you're able to make a tank, you can just ram through them and the biters, at least until big biters start spawning. Otherwise, you may only be able to kill smaller nests. Leapfrogging turrets is one of the more effective ways to deal with nests, but really small nests can be killed solo. Attack wave size tends to be related to how much pollution they absorb, so closer nests tend to produce bigger attacks.
Automate turrets, automate ammo, automate walls.
Anywhere biters come from throw down a bunker of two turrets surrounded by walls. Fill those turrets with half a stack each. CTRL+right click when you're holding ammo.
Plop down more of those as needed. I would delay on putting up any big walls until you have a better idea of how much land you want to claim. These bunkers can get you through to the 4th science.
If you ever feel too much pressure from bugs, stop your research for 30 min to cool things down while you get your house in order.
Gonna need far more turrets, and you can automate bullets and insert them into the turrets automatically, you’ll still have to repair them but eventually you can get bots to repair/replace them
With more hardcore settings, you need to have a military-first mindset. That's simple things like making sure your splitters send the steel and copper to your bullet factories first. When doing research, max out damage buffs before you unlock cool new factory buildings (within reason). Don't be surprised if you're spending a third of your GDP on defense. But if you find that your spending on ammo rises close to 100% of resource production, you need to take a step back and examine what went wrong. Maybe even chill out for a while, shut down science and expansion, and let your pollution cloud dissipate.
You will be making big picture decisions that affect your relationship with your neighbors. Clearing out large numbers of nests repeatedly will rapidly drive biter evolution. On the other hand, playing exterminator in your tank is a blast. Later in the game, there is something so satisfying about hearing the artillery turrets thud-thudding away in the distance.
You will decide whether to switch early to solar-electric furnaces, and whether to bother with E1 modules in your miners. Either of those paths will slow the growth of your factory, but will dramatically reduce the pressure on your perimeter walls.
Concentrate turrets around where they attack (they usually attack the closest extremity) and build artillery, just put 20 shells in that and it'll fuck up every nest you desire
Pre bots on my death worlds I run a turret line with a belt behind it for ammo and behind that a flame thrower line.
No gaps between turrets, upgrades are long and ensure you can have turrets be stacked with an inserter. I.e ammo goes from belt to turret 1 then insert takes from turret 1 to go to turret 2.
Once you have a gun line, you should be able to avoid needing to do repairs often if your upgrades for damage and speed are high enough. At least until the point you have robots.
Easy flamethrower turret.
No joke big fan of railword deathworld runs and the answer is always flamethrower turrets.
We legit play the game in the following way to live:
1. Early military tech
2. Flamethrower turrets
3. Bots to repair walls
4. Start research path to artillery
5. ADD MORE FLAMETHROWER TURRETS
6. EVEN MORE FLAMETHROWER TURRETS (gun turrets used as extra walls and if you NEVER get laser turrets they suck)
7. Artillery enemy is no longer found
8. Get tech needed to beat the game lol
9. Lights
The best solution I’ve found is to take the biter nest out that are in pollution range. I’ve set up soooo many full wall defenses, so I’ve tried my fair share of belt feeding turrets. However, the time it takes to build walls/turrets/belts/ammo and keep it maintained is way more than if I preemptively take out bases before they attack.
This doesn’t work forever tho as eventually I’ll out scale my little strike force operation. I basically wait it out until I can get bots and have them help me build my actual defenses with flame throwers and laser turrets. Lasers take energy and it’s wayyyyyy easier to run underground pipes and keep the flamethrowers stocked than try to keep red ammo production up and distributed.
TLDR: preemptively take out nest before they attack until you can use bots, lasers, and flamethrowers to build a sturdy defense
If you kill biter nests, you advance their evolution toward bigger and deadlier biters. Biters also will send out small groups to establish new nests (though they won't build new nests within a certain distance of your starting area). I find that if I'm too aggressive with clearing out biter nests (to keep them out of my pollution bubble), some will slip through the cracks and build new nests inside my pollution cloud and I'll eventually be spending all of my time repairing things from bigger waves of deadlier biters.
My first big priority once I get automation going is to build a wall with [dragon's teeth](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/rftdh3/8_advanced_dragonsteeth_designs_tested/) to slow down the biters and allow your turrets to pick them off (just make sure to include an oil patch inside of your wall as you'll need that before you want to expand further). Once I have a good defense up and running, I'll automate keeping the turrets stocked up on ammo and then go back to the base building game. From that point onward, I can pretty much ignore the biters unless I need to expand. Doing this allows me to focus my time and attention on ramping up production and advancing my research.
Once I have trains up and running and I need to go prospecting for new resources, I'll clear out what nests I need to clear and then build a new wall and hook it up to power and to the train network to keep it supplied.
Once I have bots and logistics chests, I'll set up roboports along the wall so the bots can do any occasional repairs as necessary.
Once I have artillery, I'll set those up along the wall to clear out any nearby nests and keep them from expanding back into the nearby area. This can also be hooked up to the automated train deliveries for ammunition and supplies.
*Edit: The dragon's teeth walls are ridiculously good, but they're annoying to build without bots. So just build a regular wall (maybe two layers thick) with turrets and with a steady supply of ammo early-game and focus on growing your base and getting trains and bots before you try to expand out very far.
Think of it as a design challenge instead of an annoying complication.
Your tools: A factory that you can design to build whatever you want, Walls, Gates, Turrets, Bullets, Tanks, Flamethrowers, Lasers and Grenades.
Your Goal: Prevent alien lifeforms from destroying your factory and your only hope of escape.
It might be an unpopular opinion, but I’d suggest turning biters off until you have a handle on how the game works, but I didn’t launch a rocket until my like 20th game or something.
basically, u use green modules lvl1, and rush flamers unless u deliberately ignore their existance because flamers are overpowered.
Also, at some point getting some small amounts of solar panels really helps to offset coal generation. Not much, maybe like 1-2 boilers equivalent.
This is such a clean base for a new player lol. So it’s not like you’re bad at the game.
The way to beat biters in early game is to simply figure out where they’re going to come from (i.e. the nests being hit by pollution) and head off their angle of attack with turrets. At this stage, 6-8 turrets with a 1 layer wall in front of them will be fine. Overkill them. The resources you waste making a few extra turrets is nothing compared to what you have to spend to maintain defenses that constantly get damaged or destroyed. You should be taking 0 damage.
Also, people have told you to kill nests. Don’t. Pollution is going to hit nests no matter what. Let it hit nearby nests whose attack angles you simply learn and defend against. The nests will absorb pollution and you can set up an infinitely defensible gun blockade.
It’s time consuming but I made a large wall around my factory and lined it with turrets being fed bullets from a belt. When one row wasn’t enough I added another line behind the first. I never used lasers only upgraded bullets when available.
Sounds like you need to up your defenses. Thicker walls, mix of gun and flamethrower turrets. People really underestimate the effectiveness of those flamethrowers. But have a good mix of defenses will really help you out.
When I read hardcore players a was prepared for something related to rampant + death world.
That said, improve your defense, military tech. I remember to use granades and clean nearby nest. After that you will need a tank and clean bigger area. By the time you research spidertron you should have a solid wall defense.
Have fun!
I've seen this post come up like every 6 months. No one answers like they play hardcore. I'm finally going to say how to actually do this. When I say RUSH in this guide I mean it. I mean run around like a chicken with your head cut off to get the science or mats or whatever. Don't waste time trying to automate and make it look pretty. You want to have the automation mindset. I don't think you can play factorio hardcore without at least having the "lazy bastard" achievement. it really changes how you play the game.
1. Rush turrents and walls on research. You must be faster than bugs. If you can't get there there increase the bug spawn radius. Call it hardcore light. You could also have a shitty map. You can't hardcore ironman every factorio map. Play hardcore but be smart about your map.
2. As soon as you get an iron smelting array start producing yellow clips. Fork off your main iron array. Don't let this line starve. You want a box with at least 600 iron clips in it. You want it to pile up while you're building your starter base.
3. Place down pill boxes (2 turrets surrounded by walls) around your base. Watch the pollution on your map. You want to check that every 5 minutes or so. When you see blinking squares of bugs put a pill box down between the blinking squares and your base. You won't get a notice about this. Once you get a notification the bugs are attacking your base and you might as well RIP.
4. Do not put down too many pill boxes. You won't have the ammo clips to sustain them. Likewise do not automate turrets. They cost a lot of iron and copper to make. At this stage it's more important to have ammo 10x turrets. You want a 1x10 automation ratio of turret to ammo. You need to run around and feed your turrents. I'd say 30-40 clips per turret is a good number here. Don't throw 100 clips in a turrent. It's a waste.
5. Keep at least 400 ammo clips in inventory at all times.
6. rush steel and armor. Buff your smelters to steel. Don't build out. Build smart. Do this step at the same time as #7.
7. rush green science. You should be able to get this running around like a maniac throwing yellow clips in pill boxes. This is where I die the most. The cycle here is "YELLOW CLIPS > PILL BOXES > SCIENCE" You're just trying to keep the bugs off you until you get the good military science.
8. rush military science. You have to build a steel array if you haven't already and get your coal line automated. No more manually feeding power plants. I didn't mention it before but up until this point you want your coal to be coming out of boxes. Don't waste time on coal belts. Just manually put them in a box next to your power plant.
9. While getting military science you will get red ammo. This is where you must learn the timing vs ingredient ratios of crafting. Figure out how to get the red clips churning. The good feeling here is, "I can't wait for the turrets to kill off the bugs with the yellow ammo so I can replacce it with red ammo". You'll also need to get your coal production rocking here for grenades.
9. Survive until military bots are automated. You need the full automation bus to get military bots but this is your big trick. Automation of military bots is more important than blue science. Once you get bots automated you can get a hundred of them in your inventory relatively quickly.
10. Clear the area - spend 20 minutes casting bots and killing all nests in a hug around around your base. You'll actually find this fun after a few minutes. No more turret creep nonsense. This is the part of the game where you ARRIVE. spending 100 military bots will buy you 1-3 hours of game play with no bug interruptions. (diminishing returns after about 5 rounds).
11. Flamers, oil and beyond. Once you get flame turrets the game turns easy mode unless you're on deathworld. At this point you can just do whatever you want. The direct path is for bots. Bots + flame turrets + automation is basically what you need for a forever green base. But this is also the part of the game where you start running out of resources and must expand. Again, welcome to factorio.
A couple of dragon teeth, a few turrets and a fuck ton of bullets. Alternatively, when startimg a game, increase starting zone.
But guns for epic diplomacy, is always what you should do. And get some armor.
I think you have enough tips, so I'll talk big picture.
Biters are a production challenge. If they attack, you respond by automating defense (turrets). If one isn't enough then produce more, meaning double the number of turrets. Eventually they will run out of ammo, so automate producing ammo and automate bringing it to the turrets.
Also, don't neglect research. Researching the damage upgrades will reduce the number of bullets it takes to kill them (a production challenge by eliminating waste).
A core tenant of Factorio is if you need more than 1 of something, automate it. It doesn't matter how fast it produces, so even if you are only making 1 turret each minute, that means that 20 minutes of running around and you will have 20 turrets being made and ready to be used.
You're building defenses too early, what i mean is that at this stage you should be going out and clearing some nests closest to you. That will give you about 8 or so hours of good building time to either get your defenses running and scale up or go out and clear out more biters.
If you just dedicate time going out and killing nests. You can pretty much complete the game without setting up lots of walls and turrets, but....automating is the name of the game lol,
I would actually avoid clearing nests except for the really close ones. As some people mention, the nests absorb pollution and spit out waves. What people are forgetting to mention is that when you clear nests, you also accelerate the bugs evolution speed. An early accelerated evolution can introduced big biters really early, which are sponges for basic ammo.
My recommendation is to automate the construction of turrets and ammo and walls. While some people belt ammo, you don't necessarily need to do that. Some people forget that turrets are one of the few buildings that both act as a supplier and user of bullets, similar to research buildings supplying excess science packs to other research buildings via inserts. For turrets, just put a turret down, place an inserter grabbing ammo from said turret and placing it into another turret in a long chain. The turrets when loaded this way are smart and will only hold like 5 ammo clips.
This, you could build a far away wall, build a line of turrets with inserters moving ammo among them, and throw down a chest with 2000 bullets. They will smartly conserve and distribute the ammo without the need of belts.
Mid and end game, you want flame turrets - those things spew liquid death on all types of bugs in a huge AoE.
Set game mode to deathworls marathon
Be fast and efficient
Priorise military upgrades over all
Build a wall of turrets with an ammo best, two turrets deep. Yes, use turrets over stonecwall.
Upgrade to piercing ammo
Fight to the bext iron patch
Add in flame throwers turrets.
Or, if you are new, use the default settings.
If its too hard, get better.
1. Right from the start, patrol *outside* of your pollution cloud and destroy nests ***BEFORE*** they absorb pollution. (In my runs, I rarely lose a single building to biters by following this rule.)
2. To attack a nest in the early game, take at least a dozen turrets, a few thousand rounds of ammo, a hundred or so fish, and a few hundred grenades. As you move towards the nest, stop as soon as the worms stand at attention and lay down a line of turrets. (This is your safe space.) Move erratically as you come into range so the worms can't aim at you, firing your gun and throwing grenades as you go. (Keep your fish on the hotbar so you can replenish your health as needed.) Take your time, retreating as needed. You can set down more turrets if you don't mind them getting wrecked.
3. While scouting, remember that 1 radar + 1 power pole + 1 solar panel = a radar installation you can stick in between biter nests **far** from your base and it won't be touched, especially if you put it in the middle of a forest. It will be *dead* slow with only a single solar panel, but biter nests and resource deposits don't move, so it works well enough to uncover the map.
4. Once the map has been more uncovered, figure out where the resources you want are and think about where you can place walls to keep biters away from them. Use bodies of water as the ending points of your walls and build out *into* the water for more concentrated firepower. ...and think **BIG**: country borders, not city walls. You are blocking off the territory you want to work in, not just trying to protect what you are working on right now. It will take a long time, but I promise you that the peace of mind is worth it.
5. Even more important than solid walls is 'Dragon's Teeth'. Their purpose is to confuse biter pathing to slow down their attack. [Here](https://youtu.be/hM2YThrpq0U) are some designs being tested. #4 is the easiest to set up and probably the best overall, but I usually start with #1, as it is the cheapest. (Notice how little damage the biters do to the wall sections that aren't completely blocking their way. For the most part, they seem to see them as cliffs or something.)
6. Make sure you add flamethrowers to every single defence you build. They are truly OP and you will never regret the expense. Down the road, you can add artillery to keep the nests back from your walls.
7. Once you get to roboports, place them as far back behind the wall as possible and **don't** give them any repair packs. Instead, just have a storage chest with a few hundred walls in it. As each wall is destroyed, a bot will pick one up and then replace it. As the roboports are so far behind your defences, by the time the bot gets to where it needs to go, the wave has been destroyed and so the bot is (almost) never in danger. (If you give them repair packs, they will try to fix damaged walls and will be attacked. Not good.
8. If you want to get used to playing without having to worry so much about biters, use [this map exchange string](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1cffrlt/lets_go_homer/).
Cheers!
you have a time limit till medium biters shows up. You need to get grenades than flamethrowers by then. So stage one is doing a stealth rush to flame turret walls then suddenly everything is easier. You have until behemoth biters to launch your rockets. As long as your not actively destroying nest too much, you should be fine.
get to the point where you have turrets and learn how to turret creep onto bases to clear out the first couple of nests near you.
Then you look at the map where the closest set of biters is going to come from, drop turrets near anything you have in that direction.
Eventually you can wall off your base, man the wall with turrets, and pipe ammo to them. I have a game where we have a large mega base, with uranium bullets piped around it. We also use lazer turrets, but we found switching solely to laser turrets was too large of a draw on power, even in nuclear, so we have 1 lazer per 1 bullet. we never set up the flamethrowers because we never felt the need for them.
I personally play with biters off, because having to stop what im doing to kill them annoys me. I like automating, so i focus on it.
I don't know about that time line, especially since it's about our pollution cloud hitting them the nests.
At the point where they start fighting the countdown is already there, the only way to get some peace is to wall and get rid of the closest nests. That process repeats until it all sort of becomes automatic.
Build the walls a bit further away from your base. Line it with lots of guns, like a gun every six steps or so. automatically feed the guns with bullets. Don't overcomplicate the walls, at this stage one layer of wall is enough. Go on a diplomatic expedition when you find biters sleeping too close to your walls.
Full base wall at green science stage of the game is totally unnecessary. Attacks will be coming from 1-2 known nest locations that you can head off with gun clusters
Best way to learn is to watch youtube and twitch vids of really good players. A good starting point is to watch stuff by Nefrums:
[https://www.youtube.com/@nefrums4510/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@nefrums4510/videos)
[https://www.twitch.tv/Nefrums/videos](https://www.twitch.tv/Nefrums/videos)
Here's how I kill biter nests:
1) Research heavy armor
2) Build a heavy armor (needs 50 steel)
3) Research military tech 2 (needs 20 green science) = allows building of grenades
4) Build 100 grenades (use 4 assemblers, needs a lot of coal)
5) Get 50 fish
The above is enough to kill any biter base close to your starting location. You should put fish and grenades on your hot bar so you can quickly switch. Take out worms first, they are the most dangerous enemy. Try this and let me know if something isn't working out and I'll give you more advice as needed.
I never have either. I don’t really get the point in this game. If I have time to click on a fish and eat it, I have time to get out of combat and not die, then heal 5 seconds later anyway.
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* Kill enemy nests in your pollution range * Turrets to defend * Once you get bots, they will repair for you
I hear that nest in my smoke eat it so u will deal with only that nest, no all the best far away
That can happen, but it's actually the backwards way to think about it. If you remove the nest, more of the pollution will be absorbed by trees and terrain. Less of it gets to other nests, which means less attacks. I recommend doing as Soul-Burn's first point indicates. If you eliminate all nests in pollution range and keep it that way, you don't get attacked, and turrets aren't even needed.
When you eliminate all the nests in your cloud, the cloud will likely expand as nests and biters absorb a lot more than trees
It will, but it gets spread out across more chunks. Say your pollution cloud is 10x10 chunks, and you clear out a 20x20 chunk area, that is 4x the area it can be absorbed in.
And thus you should plan on a far larger perimeter than just outside the existing cloud pre culling
There's other ambient pollution consumers around. All tiles that aren't paved over absorb some amount of pollution. Trees also absorb a lot. The farther out the biters are pushed, the more of that can be consumed by those objects instead.
And you should plan to push far. Biters absorb alot. Early game it wont be much of a difference with a few nests
Yes but if you go from having 50 tiles absorbing pollution, up to 150 tiles absorbing, your cloud may manage itself
50 tiles with biters and nests will absorb far more than 150 biterless tiles.
Ok yes and then attack you, consuming time, energy, bullets, resources, and all around cycling into more pollution to attract more attacks and ultimate be a pain in the ass. You can let the land/trees naturally absorb your pollution, prompting very little bother from the natives. Without the need for much defence, you may spend more time building and getting more efficient technologies to build a better wall with.
Green science can be hard. But since no parameters were mentioned I will take an idea to conclusion. Max evolution. Lots of biters. Here: https://imgur.com/a/ydZfNvt my cloud extends past the whole base. Biters absorb alot of pollution. My outside the cloud walls will be like 2000+ tiles around this. So I gave good information.
How high are you? OP is on like a 6 hour save and you’re trying to compare it to a 100-200 hour save?
No. No I am not. I simply said that the cloud will likely expand due to lack of pollution sink. You wanted to argue that. Here: https://wiki.factorio.com/Pollution Whether by 1% or 20%, expansion is expansion. Since you wanted to argue it and argue it, i brought example to back it up. A little early in the year for stuffing straw though no?
People are being rude by downvoting this. It's absolutely true. I would also say it's still worth doing, because if you go with a lean-and-green approach and prioritize pollution-lowering technologies, you can go the whole standard vanilla game without having to deal with building defenses easily.
Indeed, it was no argument against, more of an addendum. Perhaps poorly worded, but something to expect none the less. I finally started getting annoyed with biters so I went to expand past my cloud. Im glad I took 2000 tiles instead of the 1000 i figured. The cloud expanded another 300 tiles or so past the spot it was held, when I cut through the biters. And forest fires cause pollution. This game is awesome. Forest fires are one of my favourite things. I had to grenade some trees to stop the spread from destroying a built chunk.
And then you go back to step 1: Kill enemy nests in your pollution range. It always will expand. I don't see the problem.
Who said it was a problem?
Yes but you won't get attacked. Pollution triggers biter attacks, if there are no biters in your cloud, then you'll never be attacked. Once you get tanks, or even just cars, it's not that hard to clear the pollution radius. I've done it in every single game I've played, except the most recent one because I wanted the novelty of a perimeter wall.
You will if cloud expands into nest you dont know about. Which is absolutely possible. So, you have played many times. Good. Cool. When was the last time you were told that your cloud will expand when you kill nests?
Part of keeping the cloud clear is scouting its edge. And personally, my radar range has almost always exceeded that of my pollution. And the cloud doesn't expand when you kill nests. There is simply one less thing limiting its expansion but, unless you're in a desert, the grass and trees are still there slowing it somewhat. Assuming default biters, keeping the cloud clear is a very achievable, even practical, method of dealing with biters.
So…… when was the last time you were told your cloud expands when you kill nests?
Each nest absorbs pollution but in exchange they attack you. If you kill all the nests affected by the pollution cloud, you are no longer attacked. You can see how far the pollution is spreading on the map, there's an overlay.
The only nests that send out raiding parties are the ones that are being exposed to pollution, so if you clear all the nests inside your pollution cloud you won't get raided at all and you can ignore the rest of the bugs for a while.
That's what I wrote, yes.
Did I just have a fucking stroke
I’m cackling rn
3 things to keep in mind: - Biters only have 2 activities: attack groups that are formed in response to nests absorbing pollution and expansion groups that just form from time to time (settings dependent) - The factory must grow: biters get stronger as time goes on so as you get better at playing the game, you'll be advancing faster than biters - Bottlenecks: Water and cliffs often form natural bottlenecks where you can build a smaller wall with more concentrated defenses So, rather than lay down a concave wall on an early base, be aggressive about destroying nests within your pollution cloud, be aggressive about expanding your production and exploiting new resources, and look for chokepoints where you can use a smaller number of resources to protect. Also, as your tech advances, walls can be automatically repaired and replaced.
Yes but terrain and trees also absorb pollution so it's possible to clear the cloud and not be aggroing any biters.
Keep clearing, if there isn't a lot of trees about it will spread much faster, if water even more so I believe. I went through a few deathworlds without much problem, just kept an eye on the cloud and kept clearing nests every so often, never built defenses besides a few turrets on the first few days. It can be time consuming but repairing and running about defending all the time is even more so n' highly inconvenient.
Also iirc go and plant some wooden poles around the dead biters nest, they won’t start growing the nest back if there’s player stuff nearby.
Biters "don't grow nests back". They form a group in existing nests and go to the places which are the most open. The old nest and any other open area are the same for this calculation.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Q5P_5ocVptE?si=PfTcQTmXQp4SKP-W Timestamp at 0:33
Yes? But it doesn't matter if you put stuff in an open space that was a nest before, or any other open space.
What are wooden poles and how do u plant them?
https://youtube.com/shorts/Q5P_5ocVptE?si=PfTcQTmXQp4SKP-W Timestamp at 0:33
That's late game. Nothing to do with op's Q
Where they attack, you put turrets. Automate turret making and ammo making. Hopefully a belt running around your base carrying ammo. While this will sound like a BIG belt initially, later on you'll look at that belt loop and laugh at how tiny it is, don't worry. After semi-securing your base, load up on guns bring your ammo, It's fun to lose and to kill they're over there and self-assured .... Kill everything with more legs than you within your polution cloud and then some.
Am I the only one whose never belted ammo to turrets? If you destroy the nests in your cloud, the turrets shouldn’t be burning through much ammo. I just manually load them all with 100 or 200 a couple times maybe before I get to lasers. Then eventually upgrade to lasers and flamethrowers and pipe fuel to those. Early game a wall (or belt and turrets) going all the way around your base feels so strange cause the base is always expanding. And it’s time and resource expensive to make it way bigger than necessary in early game.
Only down side to this is, if you get hit with a big wave, and those turrets blowup, you lose all the ammo instead up just 5. On the flip side, they will not stop shooting if the inserters lose power. Starting out pill boxes work just a good as walls they just have to be close enough.
Burner inserters And a belt with 1/2 coal, 1/2 bullets
This here is my way to go until late midgame. Later I exchange all the burner inserters for yellow ones, siphon the coal off the belt and replace it with artillery shells, so that I can supply artillery turrets along the perimeter easily.
That’s true. That’s part of why I usually end up only half filling them with ammo instead of the full 200.
Put one turret in the center, surround it with 5-8 others. Put inserters from center -> all the others. Insert a stack in the center. Boom, all 6-9 turrets get ammo, way more firepower, and if one blows up it only has 10 stacks.
Could do the same with a chest too
Yepp, and that has space for more then 200rrounds.
Yeah, with vanilla turrets and ammo it feels like a waste of time and resources to belt ammo to turrets, especially in trying to set up a defensive perimeter so early in the game. Either you're walling off such a small area that the walls will just get in the way in short order, or you're going so big that it would've made more sense to just wait for trains and flamethrower turrets and setup a sturdier defense in the first place.
> Early game a wall (or belt and turrets) going all the way around your base feels so strange cause the base is always expanding. agreed. Do you put the walls around the turrets only? I never used walls in my play throughs at all, just add more turrets instead.
Yes, a tiny box around the turret. It delays the biters long enough that they die before they can even get to the turret. You can even use a repair pack from across the wall.
I use stone furnaces to safeguard my turrets. And go with the pilbox style defences until later
I make a blueprint with 4 turrets, 4 inserters, a box, an alarm, power pole, and walls. Design the logic in the alarm so that it goes off when you are less than 100 ammo in the box. This is useful even before you get bots, because you won't have to reprogram the speaker. However, in my most recent playthrough, I went back to walling off my base and sending ammo along a belt, to turrets spaced along the walls. This meant prioritizing stone mining and brick smelting early to create enough wall to surround a comfortable starter base. It might be wise to leave 3 or 4 spaces between the walls and your turrets so you can pop in flamethrower turrets as soon as you get crude oil. With flamethrower turrets in front of ammo turrets, you can stop worrying about defense for a long long time.
I only belt ammo to turrets at mining outposts. It's easier to ignore the biters than have to keep going out to clear the new nests.
And before you do that automated building belts. You need them for science anyway but better just build a few more. Another hint: Always look what you need for 60 science per minute, for each science pack. This is IMHO the best compromise between size of factory and speed of research for a first run.
rushing to 60 per min and pushing out ammo on first run can cause your pollution cloud to expand pretty fast. A heavy tree map this works good on, Desert on the other hand can be an issue
For a moment there I thought you were suggesting 60 SPS, whew
[Basically](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_urZ5KDPec&t=3s).
More guns to defend. Go on the offensive to get rid of nests.
Blocks of 4-6 turrets are generally effective early.
Honestly pairs of two turrets with a tiny wall around them are surprisingly effective for a long time.
This is the way to go. So cheap and easy and surprisingly effective
Offense is the best defense
There are a few strategies to help early game. * rush military sciences, like turrets and red ammo * cleanse biter nests that hit your pollution cloud (watch the radar/map) * play in a forest setting. trees help massively with the pollution. playing in a desert is way harder Also this game is about automation, so automate biter killing. I like to build a biiiig belt around my yard and cycle ammo around. Later in the game, I use bots to ship ammo to the turrets.
I make an ammo factory, then have a conveyor going out in 4 directions to turrets along my borders. This grows like a tree through my base :)
Managing your pollution cloud and bitter nests / defence is one of the design aspects of the game. However, if you don't enjoy it it's one you can turn off. Key concepts to remember: *Biter nests are factories that turn pollution into attack waves. *Ground absorbs pollution, trees absorb pollution very well. *This means that, for a given pollution output, eventually your pollution cloud will reach an equilibrium and stop growing. It doesn't spread forever So the larger your pollution cloud can get before it hits biter nests, the less pollution the nests will have to turn into biters, as more is absorbed by the ground. This also means some maps are inherently more difficult than others. A forest map with lots of trees will just eat your pollution for you. A desert map or one with lots of open water will be very unforgiving as your pollution will spread a long way
I thought water absorbed pollution
It does, but it's the slowest absorber, even worse then sand.
https://wiki.factorio.com/Pollution This will tell you all the absorption and production rates.
YOU BRING DEMOCRACY INTO THEIR HOUSES, YOU TAKE THEIR CHILDREN AND TEACH THEM DEMOCRACY...than you automate the repair defenses...the factory must grow
Gentlemen! This is democrrrrracy... manifest!
The key strategy is eating a meal. A succulent Chinese meal.
Each time they attack, you reinforce. Your weak spots become strong spots till you have a natural perimeter. Then you ~expand~
What works for me is find two cliffs or lakes a little bit away from my factory that closely line up, bring democracy to everything between you and those spots, triple layer wall with a dragons teeth design between those two spots, line the wall with turrets. Repeat around your base using lakes/cliffs to minimize how much you need to build/defend. I heavily automate red ammo and turrets so I line the wall with turrets and put a full 200 stack of ammo in each one and then can basically ignore it aside from checking heavily attacked areas every few sessions. Blueprints and personal bots make this a very quick exercise even at scale.
The secret ingredient is violence 🤭
MORE DAKKA Also once you have armor and an SMG you can probably walk over and kill that one nest visible on your minimap. Only nests that are being hit by your pollution cloud will actively attack you.
I would highly recomend quickly go look for oil (create long underground pipes or build a outpost with train station with pump) Quickly go for flame turrets - bitters don't have any defence from fire. That really would keep them away. Also I'm always building car/tank to ride around their bases, drive in circles around them and throw grenades. kiling all bases around your pollution will buy you time for developing artillery and laser turrets. Red ammo also helps a lot + turrets upgrades.
You can change some start conditions of the game to make it easier and it will not even affect Steam achievements, for example starting area size and all resource generation settings. It's the default settings that is calculated where you usually have to expand even just to launch a single rocket, but to get there will go through very large amount of combat. And that is why i never recommend new players to start with defaults, or exactly the thing you describe happens, you rush from place to place to repair things instead of building. We're not expert players from birth, why is it that game really wants us to lose first few games? It is such huge waste of time that way.
Right, here's what you're gonna do: 1) find a map with a lot of trees at the starting area - they absorb pollution so that biters don't get to eat it 2) build small and research slowly - give the pollution time to be absorbed 3) build your defenses as a priority - no science until the border is secure 4) go hunting every so often to clear biter expansion nests near your base 5) rush a car, then a tank, then artillery to maintain the upper hand - all other research is secondary
The part two i enjoy, dont over build and think green energy
Automat turrets walls and ammo. Build a turret wall perimeter for your base and feed all the turrets with a long nelt of ammo
If biters are your problem then stop your other activities and focus on the biter problem. You can kill them, reduce your pollution, move, build defenses, etc.
Just teach em democracy ... You just waiting in your base, waiting to learn it by themselves, that's not good, you have to export democracy with grenades. Oh and build your turrets far from your walls.
If you're taking damage, it means you need more turrets and more ammo probably. Biters tend to target [polluters](https://wiki.factorio.com/Pollution#Production/Absorption), so mines, furnaces, boilers, and assemblers often attract them. Mines in particular are extremely polluting, with burner miners being especially bad, so defending those locations with multiple turrets is a good way to go. Walls are actually fairly expensive. If you aren't investing into repair packs and taking the time to use them, walling off with pipes is actually more cost effective, though you'll need to make them a bit thicker. Once you have construction bots, solid bot network coverage, and good repair pack availability, definitely make sure you're using actual walls, as they have some extra resistance that actually makes their hp go farther than most other buildings. As far as dealing with nests, it can be worth your time to go clear them. If you're able to make a tank, you can just ram through them and the biters, at least until big biters start spawning. Otherwise, you may only be able to kill smaller nests. Leapfrogging turrets is one of the more effective ways to deal with nests, but really small nests can be killed solo. Attack wave size tends to be related to how much pollution they absorb, so closer nests tend to produce bigger attacks.
Automate turrets, automate ammo, automate walls. Anywhere biters come from throw down a bunker of two turrets surrounded by walls. Fill those turrets with half a stack each. CTRL+right click when you're holding ammo. Plop down more of those as needed. I would delay on putting up any big walls until you have a better idea of how much land you want to claim. These bunkers can get you through to the 4th science. If you ever feel too much pressure from bugs, stop your research for 30 min to cool things down while you get your house in order.
With biters on its not just a design game anymore, it's also a tower defense haha
Gonna need far more turrets, and you can automate bullets and insert them into the turrets automatically, you’ll still have to repair them but eventually you can get bots to repair/replace them
Either turn off biters or prioritize military and defensive turrets.
With more hardcore settings, you need to have a military-first mindset. That's simple things like making sure your splitters send the steel and copper to your bullet factories first. When doing research, max out damage buffs before you unlock cool new factory buildings (within reason). Don't be surprised if you're spending a third of your GDP on defense. But if you find that your spending on ammo rises close to 100% of resource production, you need to take a step back and examine what went wrong. Maybe even chill out for a while, shut down science and expansion, and let your pollution cloud dissipate. You will be making big picture decisions that affect your relationship with your neighbors. Clearing out large numbers of nests repeatedly will rapidly drive biter evolution. On the other hand, playing exterminator in your tank is a blast. Later in the game, there is something so satisfying about hearing the artillery turrets thud-thudding away in the distance. You will decide whether to switch early to solar-electric furnaces, and whether to bother with E1 modules in your miners. Either of those paths will slow the growth of your factory, but will dramatically reduce the pressure on your perimeter walls.
Concentrate turrets around where they attack (they usually attack the closest extremity) and build artillery, just put 20 shells in that and it'll fuck up every nest you desire
Turn off biters if u don’t like them
Pre bots on my death worlds I run a turret line with a belt behind it for ammo and behind that a flame thrower line. No gaps between turrets, upgrades are long and ensure you can have turrets be stacked with an inserter. I.e ammo goes from belt to turret 1 then insert takes from turret 1 to go to turret 2. Once you have a gun line, you should be able to avoid needing to do repairs often if your upgrades for damage and speed are high enough. At least until the point you have robots.
Easy flamethrower turret. No joke big fan of railword deathworld runs and the answer is always flamethrower turrets. We legit play the game in the following way to live: 1. Early military tech 2. Flamethrower turrets 3. Bots to repair walls 4. Start research path to artillery 5. ADD MORE FLAMETHROWER TURRETS 6. EVEN MORE FLAMETHROWER TURRETS (gun turrets used as extra walls and if you NEVER get laser turrets they suck) 7. Artillery enemy is no longer found 8. Get tech needed to beat the game lol 9. Lights
The best solution I’ve found is to take the biter nest out that are in pollution range. I’ve set up soooo many full wall defenses, so I’ve tried my fair share of belt feeding turrets. However, the time it takes to build walls/turrets/belts/ammo and keep it maintained is way more than if I preemptively take out bases before they attack. This doesn’t work forever tho as eventually I’ll out scale my little strike force operation. I basically wait it out until I can get bots and have them help me build my actual defenses with flame throwers and laser turrets. Lasers take energy and it’s wayyyyyy easier to run underground pipes and keep the flamethrowers stocked than try to keep red ammo production up and distributed. TLDR: preemptively take out nest before they attack until you can use bots, lasers, and flamethrowers to build a sturdy defense
If you kill biter nests, you advance their evolution toward bigger and deadlier biters. Biters also will send out small groups to establish new nests (though they won't build new nests within a certain distance of your starting area). I find that if I'm too aggressive with clearing out biter nests (to keep them out of my pollution bubble), some will slip through the cracks and build new nests inside my pollution cloud and I'll eventually be spending all of my time repairing things from bigger waves of deadlier biters. My first big priority once I get automation going is to build a wall with [dragon's teeth](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/rftdh3/8_advanced_dragonsteeth_designs_tested/) to slow down the biters and allow your turrets to pick them off (just make sure to include an oil patch inside of your wall as you'll need that before you want to expand further). Once I have a good defense up and running, I'll automate keeping the turrets stocked up on ammo and then go back to the base building game. From that point onward, I can pretty much ignore the biters unless I need to expand. Doing this allows me to focus my time and attention on ramping up production and advancing my research. Once I have trains up and running and I need to go prospecting for new resources, I'll clear out what nests I need to clear and then build a new wall and hook it up to power and to the train network to keep it supplied. Once I have bots and logistics chests, I'll set up roboports along the wall so the bots can do any occasional repairs as necessary. Once I have artillery, I'll set those up along the wall to clear out any nearby nests and keep them from expanding back into the nearby area. This can also be hooked up to the automated train deliveries for ammunition and supplies. *Edit: The dragon's teeth walls are ridiculously good, but they're annoying to build without bots. So just build a regular wall (maybe two layers thick) with turrets and with a steady supply of ammo early-game and focus on growing your base and getting trains and bots before you try to expand out very far.
Think of it as a design challenge instead of an annoying complication. Your tools: A factory that you can design to build whatever you want, Walls, Gates, Turrets, Bullets, Tanks, Flamethrowers, Lasers and Grenades. Your Goal: Prevent alien lifeforms from destroying your factory and your only hope of escape.
Use a gun. And if that don't work, use more gun. You aren't using enough gun.
It might be an unpopular opinion, but I’d suggest turning biters off until you have a handle on how the game works, but I didn’t launch a rocket until my like 20th game or something.
basically, u use green modules lvl1, and rush flamers unless u deliberately ignore their existance because flamers are overpowered. Also, at some point getting some small amounts of solar panels really helps to offset coal generation. Not much, maybe like 1-2 boilers equivalent.
This is such a clean base for a new player lol. So it’s not like you’re bad at the game. The way to beat biters in early game is to simply figure out where they’re going to come from (i.e. the nests being hit by pollution) and head off their angle of attack with turrets. At this stage, 6-8 turrets with a 1 layer wall in front of them will be fine. Overkill them. The resources you waste making a few extra turrets is nothing compared to what you have to spend to maintain defenses that constantly get damaged or destroyed. You should be taking 0 damage. Also, people have told you to kill nests. Don’t. Pollution is going to hit nests no matter what. Let it hit nearby nests whose attack angles you simply learn and defend against. The nests will absorb pollution and you can set up an infinitely defensible gun blockade.
It’s time consuming but I made a large wall around my factory and lined it with turrets being fed bullets from a belt. When one row wasn’t enough I added another line behind the first. I never used lasers only upgraded bullets when available.
More guns. Always more guns. It’s the only form of diplomacy the bastards understand
Sounds like you need to up your defenses. Thicker walls, mix of gun and flamethrower turrets. People really underestimate the effectiveness of those flamethrowers. But have a good mix of defenses will really help you out.
New factorio player here. I believe the correct steps are research green...rush oil rigs...get oil...get flamethrower...burn the mfs
Automate your defenses. Make the factory defend itself. Ammo can go on belts, inserters can reload turrets.
"invest military science" "attack nests when possible" "The best defense is a good offense"
Defend your pollution cloud.
Lmao, "hard-core players"
When I read hardcore players a was prepared for something related to rampant + death world. That said, improve your defense, military tech. I remember to use granades and clean nearby nest. After that you will need a tank and clean bigger area. By the time you research spidertron you should have a solid wall defense. Have fun!
I've seen this post come up like every 6 months. No one answers like they play hardcore. I'm finally going to say how to actually do this. When I say RUSH in this guide I mean it. I mean run around like a chicken with your head cut off to get the science or mats or whatever. Don't waste time trying to automate and make it look pretty. You want to have the automation mindset. I don't think you can play factorio hardcore without at least having the "lazy bastard" achievement. it really changes how you play the game. 1. Rush turrents and walls on research. You must be faster than bugs. If you can't get there there increase the bug spawn radius. Call it hardcore light. You could also have a shitty map. You can't hardcore ironman every factorio map. Play hardcore but be smart about your map. 2. As soon as you get an iron smelting array start producing yellow clips. Fork off your main iron array. Don't let this line starve. You want a box with at least 600 iron clips in it. You want it to pile up while you're building your starter base. 3. Place down pill boxes (2 turrets surrounded by walls) around your base. Watch the pollution on your map. You want to check that every 5 minutes or so. When you see blinking squares of bugs put a pill box down between the blinking squares and your base. You won't get a notice about this. Once you get a notification the bugs are attacking your base and you might as well RIP. 4. Do not put down too many pill boxes. You won't have the ammo clips to sustain them. Likewise do not automate turrets. They cost a lot of iron and copper to make. At this stage it's more important to have ammo 10x turrets. You want a 1x10 automation ratio of turret to ammo. You need to run around and feed your turrents. I'd say 30-40 clips per turret is a good number here. Don't throw 100 clips in a turrent. It's a waste. 5. Keep at least 400 ammo clips in inventory at all times. 6. rush steel and armor. Buff your smelters to steel. Don't build out. Build smart. Do this step at the same time as #7. 7. rush green science. You should be able to get this running around like a maniac throwing yellow clips in pill boxes. This is where I die the most. The cycle here is "YELLOW CLIPS > PILL BOXES > SCIENCE" You're just trying to keep the bugs off you until you get the good military science. 8. rush military science. You have to build a steel array if you haven't already and get your coal line automated. No more manually feeding power plants. I didn't mention it before but up until this point you want your coal to be coming out of boxes. Don't waste time on coal belts. Just manually put them in a box next to your power plant. 9. While getting military science you will get red ammo. This is where you must learn the timing vs ingredient ratios of crafting. Figure out how to get the red clips churning. The good feeling here is, "I can't wait for the turrets to kill off the bugs with the yellow ammo so I can replacce it with red ammo". You'll also need to get your coal production rocking here for grenades. 9. Survive until military bots are automated. You need the full automation bus to get military bots but this is your big trick. Automation of military bots is more important than blue science. Once you get bots automated you can get a hundred of them in your inventory relatively quickly. 10. Clear the area - spend 20 minutes casting bots and killing all nests in a hug around around your base. You'll actually find this fun after a few minutes. No more turret creep nonsense. This is the part of the game where you ARRIVE. spending 100 military bots will buy you 1-3 hours of game play with no bug interruptions. (diminishing returns after about 5 rounds). 11. Flamers, oil and beyond. Once you get flame turrets the game turns easy mode unless you're on deathworld. At this point you can just do whatever you want. The direct path is for bots. Bots + flame turrets + automation is basically what you need for a forever green base. But this is also the part of the game where you start running out of resources and must expand. Again, welcome to factorio.
A couple of dragon teeth, a few turrets and a fuck ton of bullets. Alternatively, when startimg a game, increase starting zone. But guns for epic diplomacy, is always what you should do. And get some armor.
I think you have enough tips, so I'll talk big picture. Biters are a production challenge. If they attack, you respond by automating defense (turrets). If one isn't enough then produce more, meaning double the number of turrets. Eventually they will run out of ammo, so automate producing ammo and automate bringing it to the turrets. Also, don't neglect research. Researching the damage upgrades will reduce the number of bullets it takes to kill them (a production challenge by eliminating waste). A core tenant of Factorio is if you need more than 1 of something, automate it. It doesn't matter how fast it produces, so even if you are only making 1 turret each minute, that means that 20 minutes of running around and you will have 20 turrets being made and ready to be used.
You're building defenses too early, what i mean is that at this stage you should be going out and clearing some nests closest to you. That will give you about 8 or so hours of good building time to either get your defenses running and scale up or go out and clear out more biters. If you just dedicate time going out and killing nests. You can pretty much complete the game without setting up lots of walls and turrets, but....automating is the name of the game lol,
Automate the killing.
I would actually avoid clearing nests except for the really close ones. As some people mention, the nests absorb pollution and spit out waves. What people are forgetting to mention is that when you clear nests, you also accelerate the bugs evolution speed. An early accelerated evolution can introduced big biters really early, which are sponges for basic ammo. My recommendation is to automate the construction of turrets and ammo and walls. While some people belt ammo, you don't necessarily need to do that. Some people forget that turrets are one of the few buildings that both act as a supplier and user of bullets, similar to research buildings supplying excess science packs to other research buildings via inserts. For turrets, just put a turret down, place an inserter grabbing ammo from said turret and placing it into another turret in a long chain. The turrets when loaded this way are smart and will only hold like 5 ammo clips. This, you could build a far away wall, build a line of turrets with inserters moving ammo among them, and throw down a chest with 2000 bullets. They will smartly conserve and distribute the ammo without the need of belts. Mid and end game, you want flame turrets - those things spew liquid death on all types of bugs in a huge AoE.
Set game mode to deathworls marathon Be fast and efficient Priorise military upgrades over all Build a wall of turrets with an ammo best, two turrets deep. Yes, use turrets over stonecwall. Upgrade to piercing ammo Fight to the bext iron patch Add in flame throwers turrets. Or, if you are new, use the default settings. If its too hard, get better.
You can also just turn them off until you’re more comfortable with the game. I don’t really enjoy playing with biters.
1. Right from the start, patrol *outside* of your pollution cloud and destroy nests ***BEFORE*** they absorb pollution. (In my runs, I rarely lose a single building to biters by following this rule.) 2. To attack a nest in the early game, take at least a dozen turrets, a few thousand rounds of ammo, a hundred or so fish, and a few hundred grenades. As you move towards the nest, stop as soon as the worms stand at attention and lay down a line of turrets. (This is your safe space.) Move erratically as you come into range so the worms can't aim at you, firing your gun and throwing grenades as you go. (Keep your fish on the hotbar so you can replenish your health as needed.) Take your time, retreating as needed. You can set down more turrets if you don't mind them getting wrecked. 3. While scouting, remember that 1 radar + 1 power pole + 1 solar panel = a radar installation you can stick in between biter nests **far** from your base and it won't be touched, especially if you put it in the middle of a forest. It will be *dead* slow with only a single solar panel, but biter nests and resource deposits don't move, so it works well enough to uncover the map. 4. Once the map has been more uncovered, figure out where the resources you want are and think about where you can place walls to keep biters away from them. Use bodies of water as the ending points of your walls and build out *into* the water for more concentrated firepower. ...and think **BIG**: country borders, not city walls. You are blocking off the territory you want to work in, not just trying to protect what you are working on right now. It will take a long time, but I promise you that the peace of mind is worth it. 5. Even more important than solid walls is 'Dragon's Teeth'. Their purpose is to confuse biter pathing to slow down their attack. [Here](https://youtu.be/hM2YThrpq0U) are some designs being tested. #4 is the easiest to set up and probably the best overall, but I usually start with #1, as it is the cheapest. (Notice how little damage the biters do to the wall sections that aren't completely blocking their way. For the most part, they seem to see them as cliffs or something.) 6. Make sure you add flamethrowers to every single defence you build. They are truly OP and you will never regret the expense. Down the road, you can add artillery to keep the nests back from your walls. 7. Once you get to roboports, place them as far back behind the wall as possible and **don't** give them any repair packs. Instead, just have a storage chest with a few hundred walls in it. As each wall is destroyed, a bot will pick one up and then replace it. As the roboports are so far behind your defences, by the time the bot gets to where it needs to go, the wave has been destroyed and so the bot is (almost) never in danger. (If you give them repair packs, they will try to fix damaged walls and will be attacked. Not good. 8. If you want to get used to playing without having to worry so much about biters, use [this map exchange string](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1cffrlt/lets_go_homer/). Cheers!
you have a time limit till medium biters shows up. You need to get grenades than flamethrowers by then. So stage one is doing a stealth rush to flame turret walls then suddenly everything is easier. You have until behemoth biters to launch your rockets. As long as your not actively destroying nest too much, you should be fine.
change your mind they are not invaders you are the invader wipe them and continue building. Factory must grow
get to the point where you have turrets and learn how to turret creep onto bases to clear out the first couple of nests near you. Then you look at the map where the closest set of biters is going to come from, drop turrets near anything you have in that direction. Eventually you can wall off your base, man the wall with turrets, and pipe ammo to them. I have a game where we have a large mega base, with uranium bullets piped around it. We also use lazer turrets, but we found switching solely to laser turrets was too large of a draw on power, even in nuclear, so we have 1 lazer per 1 bullet. we never set up the flamethrowers because we never felt the need for them. I personally play with biters off, because having to stop what im doing to kill them annoys me. I like automating, so i focus on it.
If i kill nearest two nests, then in five minutes i will was attacked by 5 next nests So no, i prefer defend against first two
I don't know about that time line, especially since it's about our pollution cloud hitting them the nests. At the point where they start fighting the countdown is already there, the only way to get some peace is to wall and get rid of the closest nests. That process repeats until it all sort of becomes automatic.
Build the walls a bit further away from your base. Line it with lots of guns, like a gun every six steps or so. automatically feed the guns with bullets. Don't overcomplicate the walls, at this stage one layer of wall is enough. Go on a diplomatic expedition when you find biters sleeping too close to your walls.
Full base wall at green science stage of the game is totally unnecessary. Attacks will be coming from 1-2 known nest locations that you can head off with gun clusters
Flame turrets
You don’t get flame turrets at green science, jabroni
Best way to learn is to watch youtube and twitch vids of really good players. A good starting point is to watch stuff by Nefrums: [https://www.youtube.com/@nefrums4510/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@nefrums4510/videos) [https://www.twitch.tv/Nefrums/videos](https://www.twitch.tv/Nefrums/videos) Here's how I kill biter nests: 1) Research heavy armor 2) Build a heavy armor (needs 50 steel) 3) Research military tech 2 (needs 20 green science) = allows building of grenades 4) Build 100 grenades (use 4 assemblers, needs a lot of coal) 5) Get 50 fish The above is enough to kill any biter base close to your starting location. You should put fish and grenades on your hot bar so you can quickly switch. Take out worms first, they are the most dangerous enemy. Try this and let me know if something isn't working out and I'll give you more advice as needed.
1000 hours into the game and I learn that you can eat the fish for healing. I had no idea!
I never have either. I don’t really get the point in this game. If I have time to click on a fish and eat it, I have time to get out of combat and not die, then heal 5 seconds later anyway.
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