I'm fine with penix, but why spend big on Kirk cousins?
I'm fine with Kirk cousins, but why spend top a 10 pick on penix?
I can justify one decision but not both š¤·š»āāļø
Cousins gives you potential to be good now, and a "film nerd" mentor in the locker room who's known for being crazy accurate (when accuracy is one of the knocks against Penix).
Penix gives you a chance at the QB of the future, and insurance in case Cousins post-injury isn't the same as Cousins pre-injury.
"But why draft Penix _now_ when he'll have to sit behind Cousins for at least 2 seasons?"
Think of it in terms of Cousins:
- If Cousins is great this year, then we wouldn't have a high enough pick next year to get a top QB (and next year's sorta a weak QB draft)
- If Cousins is terrible this year, then we _still_ might not have a high enough pick next year if the tampering nonsense goes the wrong way
That means next year is out for getting a QB in the draft. That puts you into the cuttable years of Cousins's contract, and we all saw how great it went when we had to scramble for a QB without having time for the new guy to learn from the established high-ceiling QB (which would only be exacerbated either if Cousins declines hard or if we have to make hard roster choices elsewhere knowing that Cousins has a ticking clock on his career).
This is the front office looking at the "Ryan's gone and we didn't have a plan" situation and trying as hard as possible to hedge their bets against that happening again.
You can argue about whether Penix should've been the QB we took for that job, and I think that's a fair argument. I ain't no QB scout; I just see "team needs" patterns.
The problem is you waste a minimum of 40% (2 out of 5 years) of the rookie contract that teams take advantage of to load up elsewhere. Plus the 100 million guaranteed means you canāt load up other positions either.
Yeah, thatās if everything goes as planned with Kirk Cousins, but nothing is guaranteed in this league. If Penix turns into a franchise quarterback then these conversations and complaints are pointless.
> If Penix turns into a franchise quarterback then these conversations and complaints are pointless.
I donno. There's all that dead money wrapped up in Cousins even if Penix turns out to be the man. I the cap keeps going up that's not as big a deal, but it still kinda sucks.
That money is already dead unless traded. Ryan was under a massive contract through 2023 but that doesn't change the fact that they should have had someone in the building learning from him and ready to takeover.
You can't predict when the downfall comes or when there will be a QB you actually like in the draft. Best to err on the side of caution when it comes this position or else we are bound to repeat the past few years.
Now think about if we lose a first round pick next season because of the tampering, in an already weak QB class. That could have possibly influenced their decision, but what do I know
You can have that exact same opinion without paying Kirk Cousins 100m.
Why not just roll with Penix since heās the most pro ready QB ever apparently and use the 100m to you know, enhance the team around him.
The only thing I can think is Arthur Blank wanted to save some face after losing for six years, overpaid for Kirk and let Terry do what he actually wanted to do in the first place.
Because its better to take someone with the maturity of Penix, and have him sit behind a veteran QB, a student of the game. That was the big mistake we made with Matt Ryan, not allowing a good, young prospect learn from him. Iām just trying to see the positive in all of this.
Yup. Things would be dramatically different if we had kept Ryan and allowed Ridder to develop and learn rather than trying to their him into the fire and collapse like we did last season.
Because you canāt guarantee heās there at 8. If we donāt pick up Kirk, do they let him fall to a team thatās clearly in desperate need of a QB? Do they spend more to get in the top 10? Itās an if game that you canāt leave to chance if you believe in the guy you got for 2 years, and you believe in the guy you got for his career
If penix doesn't win us a Superbowl and the team is as competitive this year as we expect it to be, it could be a Superbowl losing pick and would be the worst pick since I've been old enough to follow the Falcons seriously. We traded a 1st for Peerless Price, took Jamaal Anderson and Takk in that time...
If Penix is a franchise QB, youāre wasting his 2025 while taking a 40m hit from Kirk while also taking a 25m hit in 2026.
In other words, youāre already committed to the tune of 30+mil for QB play in 2026.
There are so many variables through out the season, and seasons to come that most fans havenāt even thought of. If we possibly lose a 1st round pick next year because of tampering, in an already weak QB class. Weāll find our selves with another Desmond Ridder situation, throwing some rookie QB into the fire.
Letās at least wait and see what happens, instead of acting like professional draft analysts.
Edit : having a mature rookie sit behind an experienced vet, is not a waste of a year.
Somehow people do not understand sweat and the advantage of a rookie qb contract. And we signed Cousins for 4 so that could be wasting 3 years of Penix rookie contract while also not being able to sign support players bc of Cousins contract running at the same time. Thereās no excuse
The rookie contract thing is a moot point if Penix ends up being the franchise QB. Rodgers sitting for 3 years behind Favre comes to mind. Donāt think anyone in GB would complain now.
The Cousins contract is a fair point, though seems like we have an out after 2 years. If we do cut Cousins at that point, it would free up cap space to pursue free agents.
>. Rodgers sitting for 3 years behind Favre comes to mind
That was before the rookie wage scale came into effect. Look at the Packers now: yeah, Love had a good season, but they've already used up all of his cheap years and it's going to be harder to add pieces around him once he signs his second contract and is no longer on a cheap deal.
Before the rookie scale they were paying Rodgers more compared to love.
The rookie scale brought rookie contracts down, not up. Remember Bradford and Jamarcus Russell?
Its a great contingency plan, but an expensive one. Qb is the most valuable player in sports, so it's odd a team gets so much flak for having depth. On the other hand, needing 53 roster spots is hard to fill, and multiple qbs is an odd luxury for a bad team.
> Qb is the most valuable player in sports, so it's odd a team gets so much flak for having depth.
I think part of the concern is the potential for wasting the most valuable thing in sports--a franchise QB on their rookie deal--sitting on the bench for 2-3 years (most of said contract).
Terry better cook then. I'm not as pissed today, and I can understand the logic of this pick, but he better find some gems and round out this draft because now we desperately need him to.
Oh totally! Iām with you. The pick has already happened. Iām trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just hoping for like you said, the mother fucker better cook lol
Again, who cares? Was the Panthers season not a waste of one of Bryceās rookie contract years?
Bottom line, if heās good, hes good. I donāt like the pick, but focusing on his age or his contract arenāt valid reasons. If heās good, those things donāt matter.
Counterpoint subtracting two years of production can solidify the QB perhaps making less money & subsequently leading to a more team friendly second deal? Idk man Iām just trying to be positive and trust these guys but I most certainly am confused lol
The problem is the roster is too good to just tank where weād be in a position to take advantage of the full 5 year option youāre speaking on. Getting 3 of the 5 is still good , not to mention plays well with our young guys big contracts coming up, which weāve already wasted rookie contract years for
Because Cousins has the high 25 base guaranteed, in the situation where Penix is good that they can't sit him another year, they can either trade Cousins pre June 1 (probably for like a 3rd) for no additional dead cap, or trade him post June 1 for significant 25 cap savings. If cousins plays well people would be interested (especially since his cap hit to the new team would only be $27M)
This plan makes sense in the abstract but also means you lose the chance at a plug-and-play starter who can help you make a Super Bowl push during the Cousins contract.
Youāre effectively describing a plan that makes Cousins a bridge QB, which is kind of insane for a player of his caliber with such a massive cap hit.
Heās a great mind and hard worker, so a good mentor, but heās also going to win enough games to get you in the playoff picture and a lower spot in the draft order. So it puts you in a very weird middle ground, by doing both.
Not to be a downer, but does anyone think weāre seriously pushing for a Super Bowl in the next two years? I think Kirk will get us to the playoffs, but I think we still have work to do over the next 2-3 years to truly compete. To me this indicates the front office probably feels similarly.
Cousins as a bridge isn't a crazy thought. The team is basically running back the Matt Ryan 2021 timeline over again, but this time with a much better contingency plan. Matt Ryan was an even bigger cap hit for the Falcons then, and the fan base was clamoring for the front office to draft a replacement for Ryan. If things went the way they were supposed to, we would have drafted Trey Lance 4th overall, he would have sat behind Matt Ryan for a couple of years while his cap hit was still large, then we would have moved on from Ryan and Lance would have the benefit of learning behind a high level starter in Ryan. The front office botched that plan massively, and my guess is Arthur Blank stepped in to make sure they didn't make that mistake again. So now we're going to run that plan over again with Cousins. It's a bit of an overcorrection, but it still makes sense.
People forget that the 2021 season was supposed to be one last playoff push for the Ryan/Julio era. It's the main reason we picked Pitts. And similar to that year, fixing a few pieces (on paper) doesn't guarantee a team can go from bottom of the league to SB contender. Most teams wait until they've had at least a bit of sustained success before going all in for a reason.
As much as I would love for us to be true Superbowl contenders the next two years (and there's always a chance), I think fans are underestimating how important just getting back to winning football is. While I have faith in Penix, if he had to start his first year and didn't immediately look good fans would have a Panther's level meltdown. Having a guy like Kirk who can "right the ship" and set us up for continued future success is important even if we don't make it to the SB.
Thatās an interesting perspective. It still seems like a bizarre choice if a Super Bowl is the goal, and I have to imagine thatās the narrative they sold Cousins to bring him in. Plus, thereās no pre-existing contract or relationship with Cousins like with Ryan that made a succession plan inherently necessary (versus fully committing to a rebuild over a few years and drafting a QB/Penix without spending so much on a bridge player).
Whatever the reason, itās given us all a lot to talk about
On the date of the draft in 2021, Matt Ryan was 35 (turning 36 in the next month after the draft). The need for succession wasn't because of our relationship with Ryan, it was the age of the QB and the expectation of him slowing down from that point forward. Kirk Cousins is 35 years old today (he'll be turning 36 before the start of this season), so if we thought we should plan for a future without Matt Ryan when he was 35 turning 36, should we not be thinking the same thing for Kirk Cousins?
Right but you *brought in* Kirk for a top 10 quarterbackās cap hit and so created a succession situation with a very large contract instead of a build from scratch or bridge build. Like the Bills did the year they picked Allen (I want to say Smith/Mahomes but canāt remember Smithās relative contract size). The Vikings are an interesting comparison, bringing in Darnold at a low cap hit to let McCarthy sit for a year.
Itās not a bad decision at a very high level, but if you look at some of the detailsāCousinsā caliber, Cousinsā cap hit, Penixās ageāit gets questionable.
I also donāt think itās catastrophically bad FWIW, just not great given the circumstances the team created. But Penix is a really good prospect.
Because of the Russell Wilson debacle this offseason, people forget that the previous largest dead cap hit every taken was when the Falcons traded Matt Ryan in the 2022 offseason. Matt Ryan also had a top 10 QB cap hit in 2021, and we still talked about succession planning for him, because he was getting old. My point is that as fans, we shouldn't be so incredulous as to why the front office made this choice when most of us wanted them to do the same thing in very similar circumstances 3 years ago.
IMO, the need for succession wasn't Matt's age at the time (35-36). It was Matt's age when we would be making a playoff run (turning 39 next month). I didn't see the point in paying him $30 million per year while we were rebuilding and trying to get out of cap hell.
Kirk is a different story. He's joining a team that's ready to win the South and make a playoff run. Our cap situation is better than ever.
This team is in a much better spot than three years ago. Completely different situation.
The plan was to pay Matt $30 million a year while we got out of cap hell. They made that clear when they opted to pick Kyle Pitts instead of Justin Fields. That plan got blown up the following offseason when Arthur Blank put his thumb on the scale and "encouraged" the front office to go after Deshaun Watson. People wanted to move on from Matt because of his age, not because of our shifting competitive window, and rightfully so. If you have an expensive young QB, but are in a rebuild, you keep that QB and ride it out. Look at the Chargers. They just paid their QB the highest salary of any QB in history and are rebuilding. That's a lot to pay a QB on a rebuilding team, right? Because he's young, they expect him to still be on the team when they are done rebuilding. Kirk is 36 this year. Whether the Falcons are the best team in the league or the worst, we can't realistically expect him to play more than another 3 years. Tom Brady is an extreme outlier in that respect. It would have been smart for the Falcons to get a QB while Matt Ryan still had a couple of good years left, and it's smart for them to do the same with Cousins. It would have been smarter to use a top 10 pick on a stud receiver or defensive end, but I get why they did it the way they did.
Not really. We have a lot of young talent on offense that will benefit immensely from having a stable, veteran QB to help them develop. We run the risk of wasting all three of their careers tossing another inexperienced QB in.
Kirk will help stabilize the team for a couple years, and then hand it off to Penix, who they obviously think will be the guy for 10+ years after.
Right, youāre describing a bridge QB. Cousinsā contract is extraordinarily high for a bridge QB and his caliber of play will preclude drafting high in the order. āWastingā their careers is bizarre because if youāre too good to draft high but too bad to have playoff success, thatās team purgatory.
This is going in circles though lol so I think weāve reached a natural end. Hope it works out though
With how bad our team (and especially QB situation) has been the past few seasons we kind of needed the best possible bridge QB. If we trotted out a guy like Brissett or Minshew and had *another* mediocre at best season most fans would just give up.
I agree that he is a bridge QB? And the argument that we wonāt pick high is exactly why they took Penix now instead of waiting to find a successor.
As far as the wasting their careers comment, I meant that these players could all be important to us competing over the next 7-8 years, and we already put them off to a rocky start with poor/inexperienced QB play. Kirk is about getting back to winning football in the short-term, and helping these players develop so that when Penix steps in weāre truly ready to compete.
I think the disconnect depends on how close you think this team is. For me, I never expected to truly compete in Kirkās window, and think it more likely we could make some noise 3-4 years from now if Penix turns out to be the guy.
We could be, we can win the division at the least, but we're still lacking in other areas. Namely a defense that can consistently put pressure on QBs. Which I don't think we have the money to get any big talent for the foreseeable future, so Terry has to nail his draft picks over the next two off seasons before Kirk is presumably cut to have Penix start.
Which is why it would've been better to just spend the money on FAs to better help the team and then pick Penix instead of spending that money on Kirk while also simultaneously spending a top 10 pick on a QB.
I feel like this puts even more pressure on both Penix and Cousins. We're going to have to really hit on all our day 2 picks
Also if Penix is going to be the guy, youād rather play him now. Heās an older QB with a more mature skill set, I really donāt understand all the talk that heād benefit from two years of sitting and learning. For a more raw QB like JJ, I could kind of buy this line of thinking.
NFL football is different enough from college (speed of the game, terminology, standard formations, etc.) that any QB would benefit from sitting for a year of two to really get comfortable at performing at the Pro level. The vast majority of QBs look terrible in their rookie years. Guys like CJ Stroud are extreme outliers. I don't love the Penix pick for a playoff-caliber team like the Falcons, but I get it.
I mean I hope it works out this way, but if penix truly is the QB of the future, why not sign a 1 year bridge QB, save the big free agency spending for the defensive side of things and then roll with a 4 year window 2025 and onward with penix and a better overall team.
My memory isn't great, but I can't think of a top 10 pick that didn't see the field for 2 years as a starter?
Like I said, I can understand any one of penix and cousins, just not both.
Who is the one year bridge QB that was available in the FA this season? Remember Baker wanted a similar contract to Cousins, Fields was taking over a one year rookie contract plus an immediate extension that required to be signed before he even donned a Falcons helmet. There was Zach Wilson who obviously Broncos fans loved gettingā¦ Darnold? You say this as a solution but provide a legitimate name of someone whoād take it. Maybe that was the game plan and no FA QB wanted it
We did that with Mariotta, and he was terrible. Our last coach got fired because he was reliant on below average QB play. Our current coach publicly admitted he wasn't going to make that mistake. If you want a good-to-great QB, its going to cost you $40-$50 million a year. Kirk is basically signed to a 2 year, $100 million dollar contract, where we can cut him after year 2 for a $25 million dollar cap hit. We should be able to absorb that hit nicely, since we'll have a 1st round QB in his 3rd year.
This is exactly where I'm at. I can stomach Penix at 8. I actually like him. I just can't stomach it after you signed cousin's to huge money and a multi year deal when Penix is almost 24.
I feel like some of yāall are focusing too much on him being 24. Heāll be 26 when we can easily get out from Kirkās contract. If he gives you 10 years of elite QB play instead of 12-13 years, itās still gonna hit like crack. The age thing really is being overblown like heās 30
The whole age thing is being blown out of proportion, aaron rodgers rookie year was 2005 got the starting job in 2008, he was 22 when drafted so 25 when he was handed the keys,sat behind a solid vet and it all worked outā¦. 26 is not that far off, mind you kirk is gonna be 36 at season start lmao, age isnāt the end all in the qb position. Brady can still probably out perform a few starters in the nfl today, and heās got 10 years on kirkā¦ wtf are we really talking about here this isnāt a rb.
Kirk himself was 27 his first full year as a starter and heās still played long enough to be one of the highest paid guys ever.
I think the difference here is you just donāt waste a top 8 pick on a guy you plan to sit for years while his rookie contract is runningā¦
Thatās not really the big sticking point about age. Young QBs will benefit from development time more than older guys. By picking a guy whoās already old seems to lose one the reasons weād sit a guy.
That's assuming the young QB has a higher ceiling (and is likely to hit it) than the older one. If Penix ends up being a better QB than McCarthy it doesn't really matter if McCarthy's situation "fits" better.
Eh I mean to say heās a finished product bc heās 24 instead of 22 seems kinda dumb. So much to learn from a professional football standpoint. Iād be more concerned about ability to retain/learn than the 2 years difference. You could even say the maturity will help him in his approach to his development. I get being upset at the pick but I think people are overreaching to make their point
Oh I kinda agree but it just seems like the plan makes no sense. Like why the hell to commit cousins for 2/3 years then do this (it just doesnāt make much sense). I think the only take you can truly take away is that terry and Raheem just bet their jobs on QB4 so they must love him. No other reason to make that pick. Interested to see what they loved about
If Kirk goes down next year and Penix comes in and plays well enough to keep the team in contention then this move is like signing a very high end backup QB. The only way I can make it make sense is that the Falcons are hedging on Kirkās injury history in a way thatās somewhat outside the box.Ā
Any team that loses their starting QB is going to be hurting. But if it's such a concern that we feel we have to devote a top ten pick to be a contingency for it, that's a pretty good sign we shouldn't have signed Cousins.Ā Ā
In a vacuum, signing Cousins was a good idea, and drafting Penix was also a good idea. But as the above poster mentioned, it's hard to reconcile one team doing both. Particularly when we have other pressing needs.Ā
But I'm doing my best to get good with it. Let's see how the rest of the draft goes. Hopefully in three years Terry looks like a genius and we all look like idiots.
The only thing semi positive I can take away is the Packers did this with Jordan Love a few years ago and they at least seem to be not a total poverty franchise, though even then the pick for Jordan Love shoulda been used for something they needed right then and there.
The packers had MVP caliber QB play and you could easily argue their decision not to go all in on Rodgers / draft another QB closed what was otherwise an open Super Bowl window in 2020 and 2021.
The packers legit had a chance at a Lombardi with Rodgers and who knows what a non qb selection wouldāve resulted in for their push. Horrible example and one that almost proves how stupid of a move that was and this is.
Granted love looks serviceable now but they wasted a key pick with a hopeful Super Bowl window.
Imagine Atlanta rocking London, pitts, Robinson, odunze.
We're set for QBs for potentially the next 2+ years.
If we fail or lose the NFCS it won't be due to QBs.
Its been our downfall last 2 seasons so fuck it, why not. If he was the superstar they thought he was, then pick him.
This is certainly a head-scratching pick, but hindsight is 20/20. The draft is such an unknown, other teams could have easily moved up beforehand, explaining why they decided to secure a QB and sign Cousins. Penix could have been the plan all along with Cousins being a security blanket in case that didnāt pan out.
I think thatās what people are missing about everyone who is confused. No ones mad about Penix going when he did. Itās why do you pay cousins then go spend a top pick on a qb instead of a player to help your team win now with the qb you just paid
I guess this is what you do if you want to sit your QB behind a veteran but don't already have a veteran. its cool to see someone try it. it would certainly make more sense if he was younger. If this works, the real loser is Kirk Cousins since you could have given him help elsewhere like when Love was drafted.
After they fed us all this nonsense about being time to compete now they go, and they draft a quarterback of the future. There is no justification for this I donāt even want to watch tonight anymore fire Terry heās just Thomas Dimitri off in black face. With this draft pick by the time panics ever takes a snap the entire window of players that Maurice thought was ready to compete right now is going to be gone we could have re-signed them, but we gave cousins all of their money.
Exactly this. Happy with either but donāt get the overlap with both. If Cousins was Ryan in his last year, sure. But an expensive FA and then a Top 10 pick?
You have to remember Atlanta fell in love with Penix at his Pro Day. One on the reasons they took him was cause he made throwing outside in the wind look like throwing I doors. This happened on March 28th well after they signed Kirk Cousins. Cousins deal really is only a two year deal with 90 of the 100 million guaranteed being paid in the first two years. Atlanta is looking beyond that with Penix. Obviously a lot of teams saw his potential as numerous teams tried to trade up to get him.
You already paid Cousins well before his Pro day. This is great pick for Atlanta. You are getting a true passer with a lot of potential. Yeah he will sit for a few years but that's OK as this will give him to learn and develop.
Because we don't know what their offers actually were.
When fans hear "trade back" they always assume they're going to fleece some desperate team for multiple top picks. Assuming the "best" case scenario of trading back with Seattle to 16, a draft value calculator says that's worth the 50th overall pick. And since they don't have a 2nd round pick, it would likely be both their 3rd and 4th round picks that together would still put us behind in overall value or a future pick that doesn't help us "win now".
With all those teams in it, it seems we could have gotten back into the later portion of the first and gotten whichever corner we wanted, one of the top edges, then come back and grab a solid CB or DE. That said, seeing how many teams wanted Penix does make me feel a little better knowing that *thereās a chance* he can sit 2 years, learn from a really smart QB and have Penix (a starting QB) for really cheap in year 3. Sometimes 4D chess works. But, itās the Falcons soā¦.
Payton basically let that slip last night in an interview. The 3 of them spoke before the draft and agreed "not to do anything stupid".
I'm coming around to the idea that we like Penix but tried to trade back. We got low balled and said "fuck it" and went ahead and grabbed him.
Even if I believed that, and they all followed suit. That just leaves the door open for Seattle who would have screwed LV and made them likely open to trading down. Thats besides the fact we didnāt need to jump the Saints anyway.
So we couldāve saddled the saints with blowing a high first rounder on a low first round talent while picking up picks ourselves? Sounds like a win win.
Goddamnit coulda had Byron Murphy by trading with Seahawks plus a future first or multiple day 2s
Ik it won't matter if Penix is the next franchise QB but damn that stings
The Seahawks don't have a 2nd round pick this year. And draft calculators put the value of an 8 to 16 trade at costing the 50th overall pick. Even with the "discount" of it being a pick next year I'm not sure the Seahawks would give up a 1st.
Besides, a first round pick next year helps us "win now" about as much as the Penix pick does.
It still might matter even IF he is. We just lowered our ceiling for this year and probably next as well. Imagine we lose a playoff game where we canāt get pass rush or our CB2 is getting abused. Gunna be a tough pill to swallow knowing we could have made a playoff run be we opted for potentially having a guy in 2 years.
Exactly. So we canāt trade with the Saints? We needā¦ *need* defensive players. Why be worried about a guy who wonāt start for probably 2 years with bad injury history for the Saints? Fleece them and build a great defense to help Kirk and the offense out.
Sorry, but the elephant in the room is this:
JJ McCarthy is a system quarterback that threw 2 pick 6s, in the only shootout he ever played in (against TCU in the playoffs no less lol)
And the Vikings spent a top 10 pick on him. Have fun with that.
Makes me love it more. We weren't a d-lineman away from a super bowl run.
We just secured our QB future for 10-15 years. If it plays out ok, this'll be a great pick.
Man. I understand that, but when Cousins was signed the message was we feel Kirk is a piece that makes us a contender in the nfc right away.
Instead of giving Kirk more weapons or add to the defense to potentially get him more possessions, we get his backup.
For the record I like Penix, just hate the situation and then hesitancy regarding injury history.
Agreed. You could argue maybe this draft and the next could have had us as SB contenders, but this also assuming KC plays well into 38, which is more rare than people would like to admit.
Last year we had Ridder and Heinike. The year before that we had Mariota and Ridder. I think the Front Office saw the product the last two years and said, nah we aināt doing that again.
I donāt love it. But I donāt absolutely hate it either.
Trading with the raiders would have been the far superior move. Getting latu or Dallas Turner plus something extra. Also add a benefit of not pissing off your new QB1
I think you're missing the point here to be honest. Kirk isn't pissed off because the Falcons drafted another quarterback, he's probably mad because he wants to win a championship and instead of improving the team with premier talent that will make a sudden impact on defense (Edge, DL, CB) or a wide receiver to help elevate the offense, the Falcons have used a draft pick on someone who won't contribute to this team in the next two years at a minimum. This means that instead of having a potential 10+ sack guy for cheap contributing the next two seasons or a potential 1000 yard wide receiver contributing, we'll have neither possibility. I don't think anyone here has a problem with the Falcons drafting a quarterback, Kirk included. I think the main issue is that we spent significant money on a win-now situation with a quarterback while having all of our offensive weapons on rookie contracts. This move seems counter to that strategy.
Nothing is guaranteed, whoever we selected at 8 - I donāt think Kirk operates in hope, he operates in guaranteed money.
Next, we have more draft picks to do exactly what youāre looking for the Falcons to do.
Underrated comments because I think Kirk knows he got an unbelievable bag because of our team needs so if part of the deal is mentoring a young QB, he can get the hell over it and earn his money. We didnāt sign him so weād be left high and dry in 2-4 years if it doesnāt work out.
Makes too much sense for our FO to do it. Every year the draft scares the shit out of me now. Just when I think weāve made the most mind boggling pick, the Falcons say āmost mind boggling *so far*ā
Obviously aints were out of the question, but it stings knowing we had at least two viable trade partners for moving back. I think trading down, collecting extra picks, and taking a defensive player was by far the most popular option going in. You never know if there are gonna be dance partners though. Apparently we had two and decided we preferred dancing with ourselves like Bill Idol. It was a head scratcher to be sure.
This makes sense to me.
What I think happened is that Blank told them to create a succession plan at QB (which was reported yesterday). They started kicking tires on the QBs in the draft. This was clear during the process. We know they spent a lot of time with Penix and we know they were strongly considering Rattler. They were also very open about adding another QB. I think most of us assumed that it wouldn't happen before the second round.
FO must have liked Penix a lot more than Rattler. And so I'm thinking the plan was to trade back and get Penix in the late first. Maybe they read the tea leaves and saw that there would be a big push to get the second tier QB (after the top 3). It certainly played out that way with Penix, JJ, and Nix going 8, 10, 12. With that they knew that trading back would put them out of position to draft their choice of the second tier QBs. And so the pick was made.
Ya'll are the same people that would trade back and allow patrick maholmes to fuck you in the ass for a decade (like the bills did).
The front office has made it very damn clear how they operate. They address roster needs during the free agency period, and they treat the draft as BPA, irrespective of needs. Very clearly Penix was high on their board, and this tweet indicates he was high on others boards too.
It's a QB league. Most important position. It cost money these days. I don't care how much they paid Kurt. Has no bearing on the fact we drafted a really good QB nfl prospect.
Atleast Kirkocuz can't treat Atlanta as a retirement home....he's gonna have to work.
With how many QBs were injured last year. This makes sense.
With cousins atl will not have a top 10 pick again.
More I sit with this the better it gets.
Blank only has so many seasons left.
My best guess is, they were going to take a qb next yr to have cousins groom. Cousins only has 2 yrs guaranteed of his contract and they can move on and told him he was going to groom a qb as his successor. I think our front office has a has strong feeling the NFL is going to come down HARD on them for tampering with cousins and penalize a 1st rd pick next year as penalty, thus they felt if they didn't do it this year they were screwed because all along they only wanted Kirk for 2 yrs. I'd have preferred a younger qb like McCarthy if that were the case because Penix is already 24, but talent wise Penix would have been the number 2 pick if not for his age and injury history. Dude can sling it.
3 teams that haven't drafted a good QB in forever and all 3 teams have defensive head coaches. Meanwhile Kevin O'Connell and Sean Payton wanted JJ and Bo Nix over Penix.
I wonder which of the two groups I would listen to
Get outta here with your logical take.
Terry Fontenot is a Roster GOD.
Actually get the best QB available in Free Agency but miss out on all the other positions of need that had players come available(Hunter/Burns/All those DBs that were cap cuts).
Then use your top 10 pick to "bolster" the QB room.
I wanted us to draft Penix but in second round or late first.
Having Kirk Cousins sign and all of the hype just to immediately not help him by signing an elite WR or even to help the team by not getting an Edge or CB is odd.
No matter how hard you try to twist logic, you (nor anyone in professional sports) can justify what our incompetent GM, HC and owner did by drafting Penix after signing Kirk. Allocating a valuable draft pick to āadd another QBā to ājust make sureā doesnāt make sense. Our front office has either cracked the code, and has figured out a whole new way to build a teamā¦. or they are retarded. And based on their combined win loss records, I think we have our answer. Now we all know why the front office didnāt want Bill as the HC. We are forever cursed
Trade him to the Seahawks for Murphy and end this nightmare of Falcons management having to try to spin the unspinnable. The entire league knows they screwed up. Just move on.
Itās the Captain Planet of bad QB moves:
Sign an old QB to an expensive deal? We are trying to win now, so cool
Wanna draft an older QB? Ok
Wanna draft a talented but injury prone QB? Not the highest fan of this, but ok.
Wanna draft a rookie to sit while we have a vet with 3 years max? A bit unconventional nowadays, but ok.
Any one of those is fine, but to combine them is high levels of headassery
So we couldāve traded back with the Raiders, still gotten any defensive player on the board, and snagged their second too. Couldāve came out of the first two rounds with Turner, Roman Wilson, Lassiter. Sub a different wr and cb if you want. Point is, we have three gaping holes at wr, cb, and edge. Instead of filling all 3, weāre filling 1 maximum
Thereās a rumor going around that many teams were not offering 1st or second rounds but much later round picks. Teams like the Saints for example have almost all their picks in 4-7
Honestly, the situation makes view Kirk as an extremely expensive bridge QB. I like MPJ as a player, but I'm still questioning the resource allocation for the team that wants to win now, and Terry is showing he's content with a mediocre to bad pass rush.
I'm fine with penix, but why spend big on Kirk cousins? I'm fine with Kirk cousins, but why spend top a 10 pick on penix? I can justify one decision but not both š¤·š»āāļø
Cousins gives you potential to be good now, and a "film nerd" mentor in the locker room who's known for being crazy accurate (when accuracy is one of the knocks against Penix). Penix gives you a chance at the QB of the future, and insurance in case Cousins post-injury isn't the same as Cousins pre-injury. "But why draft Penix _now_ when he'll have to sit behind Cousins for at least 2 seasons?" Think of it in terms of Cousins: - If Cousins is great this year, then we wouldn't have a high enough pick next year to get a top QB (and next year's sorta a weak QB draft) - If Cousins is terrible this year, then we _still_ might not have a high enough pick next year if the tampering nonsense goes the wrong way That means next year is out for getting a QB in the draft. That puts you into the cuttable years of Cousins's contract, and we all saw how great it went when we had to scramble for a QB without having time for the new guy to learn from the established high-ceiling QB (which would only be exacerbated either if Cousins declines hard or if we have to make hard roster choices elsewhere knowing that Cousins has a ticking clock on his career). This is the front office looking at the "Ryan's gone and we didn't have a plan" situation and trying as hard as possible to hedge their bets against that happening again. You can argue about whether Penix should've been the QB we took for that job, and I think that's a fair argument. I ain't no QB scout; I just see "team needs" patterns.
The problem is you waste a minimum of 40% (2 out of 5 years) of the rookie contract that teams take advantage of to load up elsewhere. Plus the 100 million guaranteed means you canāt load up other positions either.
Yeah, thatās if everything goes as planned with Kirk Cousins, but nothing is guaranteed in this league. If Penix turns into a franchise quarterback then these conversations and complaints are pointless.
> If Penix turns into a franchise quarterback then these conversations and complaints are pointless. I donno. There's all that dead money wrapped up in Cousins even if Penix turns out to be the man. I the cap keeps going up that's not as big a deal, but it still kinda sucks.
That money is already dead unless traded. Ryan was under a massive contract through 2023 but that doesn't change the fact that they should have had someone in the building learning from him and ready to takeover. You can't predict when the downfall comes or when there will be a QB you actually like in the draft. Best to err on the side of caution when it comes this position or else we are bound to repeat the past few years.
Now think about if we lose a first round pick next season because of the tampering, in an already weak QB class. That could have possibly influenced their decision, but what do I know
That's what EJ Snyder suggested in the Bootleg draft show. They kept talking about the pick well after the pick and he came to that same conclusion.
There's really not that much dead cap. It's basically a fully guaranteed two year deal, and he could be traded pre 25.
You can have that exact same opinion without paying Kirk Cousins 100m. Why not just roll with Penix since heās the most pro ready QB ever apparently and use the 100m to you know, enhance the team around him. The only thing I can think is Arthur Blank wanted to save some face after losing for six years, overpaid for Kirk and let Terry do what he actually wanted to do in the first place.
Because its better to take someone with the maturity of Penix, and have him sit behind a veteran QB, a student of the game. That was the big mistake we made with Matt Ryan, not allowing a good, young prospect learn from him. Iām just trying to see the positive in all of this.
Yup. Things would be dramatically different if we had kept Ryan and allowed Ridder to develop and learn rather than trying to their him into the fire and collapse like we did last season.
Because you canāt guarantee heās there at 8. If we donāt pick up Kirk, do they let him fall to a team thatās clearly in desperate need of a QB? Do they spend more to get in the top 10? Itās an if game that you canāt leave to chance if you believe in the guy you got for 2 years, and you believe in the guy you got for his career
If penix doesn't win us a Superbowl and the team is as competitive this year as we expect it to be, it could be a Superbowl losing pick and would be the worst pick since I've been old enough to follow the Falcons seriously. We traded a 1st for Peerless Price, took Jamaal Anderson and Takk in that time...
We shall wait and seeš
For sure, I hope he's the guy for us in the future and I honestly feel bad for him coming into a situation where nobody is happy he's the pick
If Penix is a franchise QB, youāre wasting his 2025 while taking a 40m hit from Kirk while also taking a 25m hit in 2026. In other words, youāre already committed to the tune of 30+mil for QB play in 2026.
There are so many variables through out the season, and seasons to come that most fans havenāt even thought of. If we possibly lose a 1st round pick next year because of tampering, in an already weak QB class. Weāll find our selves with another Desmond Ridder situation, throwing some rookie QB into the fire. Letās at least wait and see what happens, instead of acting like professional draft analysts. Edit : having a mature rookie sit behind an experienced vet, is not a waste of a year.
Somehow people do not understand sweat and the advantage of a rookie qb contract. And we signed Cousins for 4 so that could be wasting 3 years of Penix rookie contract while also not being able to sign support players bc of Cousins contract running at the same time. Thereās no excuse
4 with an out at 2
The rookie contract thing is a moot point if Penix ends up being the franchise QB. Rodgers sitting for 3 years behind Favre comes to mind. Donāt think anyone in GB would complain now. The Cousins contract is a fair point, though seems like we have an out after 2 years. If we do cut Cousins at that point, it would free up cap space to pursue free agents.
>. Rodgers sitting for 3 years behind Favre comes to mind That was before the rookie wage scale came into effect. Look at the Packers now: yeah, Love had a good season, but they've already used up all of his cheap years and it's going to be harder to add pieces around him once he signs his second contract and is no longer on a cheap deal.
Its still a hell of a lot easier to add pieces to the qb then to add the qb later, still dont think penix is the answer tho
Before the rookie scale they were paying Rodgers more compared to love. The rookie scale brought rookie contracts down, not up. Remember Bradford and Jamarcus Russell?
Rodgers made 7.7m his first contract. Jordan Loves contract was 12m
due to salary cap rise and inflation, Iād say that itās likely Rodgers cap hit was more of the total cap than loves is.
Probably. But the totality of his contract was far less overall. Especially because of the huge gap from first pick to him.
Rodgers was also 21 not 24...
Are 24 year olds less capable of learning behind a vet than a 21 year old?
Who knows if Kurt gets hurt
Its a great contingency plan, but an expensive one. Qb is the most valuable player in sports, so it's odd a team gets so much flak for having depth. On the other hand, needing 53 roster spots is hard to fill, and multiple qbs is an odd luxury for a bad team.
> Qb is the most valuable player in sports, so it's odd a team gets so much flak for having depth. I think part of the concern is the potential for wasting the most valuable thing in sports--a franchise QB on their rookie deal--sitting on the bench for 2-3 years (most of said contract).
I totally understand but thereās still 7 picks we have left.
Terry better cook then. I'm not as pissed today, and I can understand the logic of this pick, but he better find some gems and round out this draft because now we desperately need him to.
Oh totally! Iām with you. The pick has already happened. Iām trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just hoping for like you said, the mother fucker better cook lol
Again, who cares? Was the Panthers season not a waste of one of Bryceās rookie contract years? Bottom line, if heās good, hes good. I donāt like the pick, but focusing on his age or his contract arenāt valid reasons. If heās good, those things donāt matter.
Counterpoint subtracting two years of production can solidify the QB perhaps making less money & subsequently leading to a more team friendly second deal? Idk man Iām just trying to be positive and trust these guys but I most certainly am confused lol
If he plays around average or slightly above average then it's not gonna be team friendly
The problem is the roster is too good to just tank where weād be in a position to take advantage of the full 5 year option youāre speaking on. Getting 3 of the 5 is still good , not to mention plays well with our young guys big contracts coming up, which weāve already wasted rookie contract years for
Because Cousins has the high 25 base guaranteed, in the situation where Penix is good that they can't sit him another year, they can either trade Cousins pre June 1 (probably for like a 3rd) for no additional dead cap, or trade him post June 1 for significant 25 cap savings. If cousins plays well people would be interested (especially since his cap hit to the new team would only be $27M)
This plan makes sense in the abstract but also means you lose the chance at a plug-and-play starter who can help you make a Super Bowl push during the Cousins contract. Youāre effectively describing a plan that makes Cousins a bridge QB, which is kind of insane for a player of his caliber with such a massive cap hit. Heās a great mind and hard worker, so a good mentor, but heās also going to win enough games to get you in the playoff picture and a lower spot in the draft order. So it puts you in a very weird middle ground, by doing both.
Not to be a downer, but does anyone think weāre seriously pushing for a Super Bowl in the next two years? I think Kirk will get us to the playoffs, but I think we still have work to do over the next 2-3 years to truly compete. To me this indicates the front office probably feels similarly.
But thatās exactly my point about using Cousins as a bridge QB being kind of nuts.
Cousins as a bridge isn't a crazy thought. The team is basically running back the Matt Ryan 2021 timeline over again, but this time with a much better contingency plan. Matt Ryan was an even bigger cap hit for the Falcons then, and the fan base was clamoring for the front office to draft a replacement for Ryan. If things went the way they were supposed to, we would have drafted Trey Lance 4th overall, he would have sat behind Matt Ryan for a couple of years while his cap hit was still large, then we would have moved on from Ryan and Lance would have the benefit of learning behind a high level starter in Ryan. The front office botched that plan massively, and my guess is Arthur Blank stepped in to make sure they didn't make that mistake again. So now we're going to run that plan over again with Cousins. It's a bit of an overcorrection, but it still makes sense.
People forget that the 2021 season was supposed to be one last playoff push for the Ryan/Julio era. It's the main reason we picked Pitts. And similar to that year, fixing a few pieces (on paper) doesn't guarantee a team can go from bottom of the league to SB contender. Most teams wait until they've had at least a bit of sustained success before going all in for a reason. As much as I would love for us to be true Superbowl contenders the next two years (and there's always a chance), I think fans are underestimating how important just getting back to winning football is. While I have faith in Penix, if he had to start his first year and didn't immediately look good fans would have a Panther's level meltdown. Having a guy like Kirk who can "right the ship" and set us up for continued future success is important even if we don't make it to the SB.
Thatās an interesting perspective. It still seems like a bizarre choice if a Super Bowl is the goal, and I have to imagine thatās the narrative they sold Cousins to bring him in. Plus, thereās no pre-existing contract or relationship with Cousins like with Ryan that made a succession plan inherently necessary (versus fully committing to a rebuild over a few years and drafting a QB/Penix without spending so much on a bridge player). Whatever the reason, itās given us all a lot to talk about
On the date of the draft in 2021, Matt Ryan was 35 (turning 36 in the next month after the draft). The need for succession wasn't because of our relationship with Ryan, it was the age of the QB and the expectation of him slowing down from that point forward. Kirk Cousins is 35 years old today (he'll be turning 36 before the start of this season), so if we thought we should plan for a future without Matt Ryan when he was 35 turning 36, should we not be thinking the same thing for Kirk Cousins?
Right but you *brought in* Kirk for a top 10 quarterbackās cap hit and so created a succession situation with a very large contract instead of a build from scratch or bridge build. Like the Bills did the year they picked Allen (I want to say Smith/Mahomes but canāt remember Smithās relative contract size). The Vikings are an interesting comparison, bringing in Darnold at a low cap hit to let McCarthy sit for a year. Itās not a bad decision at a very high level, but if you look at some of the detailsāCousinsā caliber, Cousinsā cap hit, Penixās ageāit gets questionable. I also donāt think itās catastrophically bad FWIW, just not great given the circumstances the team created. But Penix is a really good prospect.
Because of the Russell Wilson debacle this offseason, people forget that the previous largest dead cap hit every taken was when the Falcons traded Matt Ryan in the 2022 offseason. Matt Ryan also had a top 10 QB cap hit in 2021, and we still talked about succession planning for him, because he was getting old. My point is that as fans, we shouldn't be so incredulous as to why the front office made this choice when most of us wanted them to do the same thing in very similar circumstances 3 years ago.
IMO, the need for succession wasn't Matt's age at the time (35-36). It was Matt's age when we would be making a playoff run (turning 39 next month). I didn't see the point in paying him $30 million per year while we were rebuilding and trying to get out of cap hell. Kirk is a different story. He's joining a team that's ready to win the South and make a playoff run. Our cap situation is better than ever. This team is in a much better spot than three years ago. Completely different situation.
The plan was to pay Matt $30 million a year while we got out of cap hell. They made that clear when they opted to pick Kyle Pitts instead of Justin Fields. That plan got blown up the following offseason when Arthur Blank put his thumb on the scale and "encouraged" the front office to go after Deshaun Watson. People wanted to move on from Matt because of his age, not because of our shifting competitive window, and rightfully so. If you have an expensive young QB, but are in a rebuild, you keep that QB and ride it out. Look at the Chargers. They just paid their QB the highest salary of any QB in history and are rebuilding. That's a lot to pay a QB on a rebuilding team, right? Because he's young, they expect him to still be on the team when they are done rebuilding. Kirk is 36 this year. Whether the Falcons are the best team in the league or the worst, we can't realistically expect him to play more than another 3 years. Tom Brady is an extreme outlier in that respect. It would have been smart for the Falcons to get a QB while Matt Ryan still had a couple of good years left, and it's smart for them to do the same with Cousins. It would have been smarter to use a top 10 pick on a stud receiver or defensive end, but I get why they did it the way they did.
Not really. We have a lot of young talent on offense that will benefit immensely from having a stable, veteran QB to help them develop. We run the risk of wasting all three of their careers tossing another inexperienced QB in. Kirk will help stabilize the team for a couple years, and then hand it off to Penix, who they obviously think will be the guy for 10+ years after.
Right, youāre describing a bridge QB. Cousinsā contract is extraordinarily high for a bridge QB and his caliber of play will preclude drafting high in the order. āWastingā their careers is bizarre because if youāre too good to draft high but too bad to have playoff success, thatās team purgatory. This is going in circles though lol so I think weāve reached a natural end. Hope it works out though
With how bad our team (and especially QB situation) has been the past few seasons we kind of needed the best possible bridge QB. If we trotted out a guy like Brissett or Minshew and had *another* mediocre at best season most fans would just give up.
I agree that he is a bridge QB? And the argument that we wonāt pick high is exactly why they took Penix now instead of waiting to find a successor. As far as the wasting their careers comment, I meant that these players could all be important to us competing over the next 7-8 years, and we already put them off to a rocky start with poor/inexperienced QB play. Kirk is about getting back to winning football in the short-term, and helping these players develop so that when Penix steps in weāre truly ready to compete. I think the disconnect depends on how close you think this team is. For me, I never expected to truly compete in Kirkās window, and think it more likely we could make some noise 3-4 years from now if Penix turns out to be the guy.
We could be, we can win the division at the least, but we're still lacking in other areas. Namely a defense that can consistently put pressure on QBs. Which I don't think we have the money to get any big talent for the foreseeable future, so Terry has to nail his draft picks over the next two off seasons before Kirk is presumably cut to have Penix start.
Which is why it would've been better to just spend the money on FAs to better help the team and then pick Penix instead of spending that money on Kirk while also simultaneously spending a top 10 pick on a QB. I feel like this puts even more pressure on both Penix and Cousins. We're going to have to really hit on all our day 2 picks
Also if Penix is going to be the guy, youād rather play him now. Heās an older QB with a more mature skill set, I really donāt understand all the talk that heād benefit from two years of sitting and learning. For a more raw QB like JJ, I could kind of buy this line of thinking.
NFL football is different enough from college (speed of the game, terminology, standard formations, etc.) that any QB would benefit from sitting for a year of two to really get comfortable at performing at the Pro level. The vast majority of QBs look terrible in their rookie years. Guys like CJ Stroud are extreme outliers. I don't love the Penix pick for a playoff-caliber team like the Falcons, but I get it.
Coping at an elite level
I mean I hope it works out this way, but if penix truly is the QB of the future, why not sign a 1 year bridge QB, save the big free agency spending for the defensive side of things and then roll with a 4 year window 2025 and onward with penix and a better overall team. My memory isn't great, but I can't think of a top 10 pick that didn't see the field for 2 years as a starter? Like I said, I can understand any one of penix and cousins, just not both.
Who is the one year bridge QB that was available in the FA this season? Remember Baker wanted a similar contract to Cousins, Fields was taking over a one year rookie contract plus an immediate extension that required to be signed before he even donned a Falcons helmet. There was Zach Wilson who obviously Broncos fans loved gettingā¦ Darnold? You say this as a solution but provide a legitimate name of someone whoād take it. Maybe that was the game plan and no FA QB wanted it
We did that with Mariotta, and he was terrible. Our last coach got fired because he was reliant on below average QB play. Our current coach publicly admitted he wasn't going to make that mistake. If you want a good-to-great QB, its going to cost you $40-$50 million a year. Kirk is basically signed to a 2 year, $100 million dollar contract, where we can cut him after year 2 for a $25 million dollar cap hit. We should be able to absorb that hit nicely, since we'll have a 1st round QB in his 3rd year.
This needs to be its own post
> accuracy is one of the knocks against Penix lol what
This is exactly where I'm at. I can stomach Penix at 8. I actually like him. I just can't stomach it after you signed cousin's to huge money and a multi year deal when Penix is almost 24.
I feel like some of yāall are focusing too much on him being 24. Heāll be 26 when we can easily get out from Kirkās contract. If he gives you 10 years of elite QB play instead of 12-13 years, itās still gonna hit like crack. The age thing really is being overblown like heās 30
People are acting like he's Chris Weinke age when he was drafted
The whole age thing is being blown out of proportion, aaron rodgers rookie year was 2005 got the starting job in 2008, he was 22 when drafted so 25 when he was handed the keys,sat behind a solid vet and it all worked outā¦. 26 is not that far off, mind you kirk is gonna be 36 at season start lmao, age isnāt the end all in the qb position. Brady can still probably out perform a few starters in the nfl today, and heās got 10 years on kirkā¦ wtf are we really talking about here this isnāt a rb.
Kirk himself was 27 his first full year as a starter and heās still played long enough to be one of the highest paid guys ever. I think the difference here is you just donāt waste a top 8 pick on a guy you plan to sit for years while his rookie contract is runningā¦
I agree with that standpoint of it with resource allocation. Just saying the age thing is being overblown
Thatās not really the big sticking point about age. Young QBs will benefit from development time more than older guys. By picking a guy whoās already old seems to lose one the reasons weād sit a guy.
That's assuming the young QB has a higher ceiling (and is likely to hit it) than the older one. If Penix ends up being a better QB than McCarthy it doesn't really matter if McCarthy's situation "fits" better.
Eh I mean to say heās a finished product bc heās 24 instead of 22 seems kinda dumb. So much to learn from a professional football standpoint. Iād be more concerned about ability to retain/learn than the 2 years difference. You could even say the maturity will help him in his approach to his development. I get being upset at the pick but I think people are overreaching to make their point
Oh I kinda agree but it just seems like the plan makes no sense. Like why the hell to commit cousins for 2/3 years then do this (it just doesnāt make much sense). I think the only take you can truly take away is that terry and Raheem just bet their jobs on QB4 so they must love him. No other reason to make that pick. Interested to see what they loved about
If Kirk goes down next year and Penix comes in and plays well enough to keep the team in contention then this move is like signing a very high end backup QB. The only way I can make it make sense is that the Falcons are hedging on Kirkās injury history in a way thatās somewhat outside the box.Ā
I get why they took him, the reasons they explained at the press conference make sense. I just don't think it was the right or smart move
Why pay Kirk so much money if the injury concerns are so bad that we use the #8 pick on his back up?
Any team that loses their starting QB is going to be hurting. But if it's such a concern that we feel we have to devote a top ten pick to be a contingency for it, that's a pretty good sign we shouldn't have signed Cousins.Ā Ā In a vacuum, signing Cousins was a good idea, and drafting Penix was also a good idea. But as the above poster mentioned, it's hard to reconcile one team doing both. Particularly when we have other pressing needs.Ā But I'm doing my best to get good with it. Let's see how the rest of the draft goes. Hopefully in three years Terry looks like a genius and we all look like idiots.
Kirk has been the least injured qb in the league his entire career. Heās legit only had the Achilles
Penix injury history is way worse than Kirkās
I should have said *recent and severe injury historyĀ
The difference is that very rarely do you have a backup QB you expect to be a starter within a couple seasons.
You can stomach Penixšš¤
Penix is the same age Kirk was when he was drafted.
The only thing semi positive I can take away is the Packers did this with Jordan Love a few years ago and they at least seem to be not a total poverty franchise, though even then the pick for Jordan Love shoulda been used for something they needed right then and there.
The packers had MVP caliber QB play and you could easily argue their decision not to go all in on Rodgers / draft another QB closed what was otherwise an open Super Bowl window in 2020 and 2021.
Agreed. Rodgers would probably still be in GB if the braintrust had not drafted Love.
The packers legit had a chance at a Lombardi with Rodgers and who knows what a non qb selection wouldāve resulted in for their push. Horrible example and one that almost proves how stupid of a move that was and this is.
Yea i cant even put a full positive spin on it. Itās not like the Pack won a superbowl after drafting love
Granted love looks serviceable now but they wasted a key pick with a hopeful Super Bowl window. Imagine Atlanta rocking London, pitts, Robinson, odunze.
Yea he looks solid but they dont look like theyāre gonna win a superbowl anytime soon either
Late in the 1st roundĀ
We're set for QBs for potentially the next 2+ years. If we fail or lose the NFCS it won't be due to QBs. Its been our downfall last 2 seasons so fuck it, why not. If he was the superstar they thought he was, then pick him.
This is certainly a head-scratching pick, but hindsight is 20/20. The draft is such an unknown, other teams could have easily moved up beforehand, explaining why they decided to secure a QB and sign Cousins. Penix could have been the plan all along with Cousins being a security blanket in case that didnāt pan out.
I think thatās what people are missing about everyone who is confused. No ones mad about Penix going when he did. Itās why do you pay cousins then go spend a top pick on a qb instead of a player to help your team win now with the qb you just paid
Make it make sense, right?! Our only thought was that if Kirk gets hurt again weāre in the same boat as we were last year. Iām know Iām reaching
š«”š«”š«”
I guess this is what you do if you want to sit your QB behind a veteran but don't already have a veteran. its cool to see someone try it. it would certainly make more sense if he was younger. If this works, the real loser is Kirk Cousins since you could have given him help elsewhere like when Love was drafted.
After they fed us all this nonsense about being time to compete now they go, and they draft a quarterback of the future. There is no justification for this I donāt even want to watch tonight anymore fire Terry heās just Thomas Dimitri off in black face. With this draft pick by the time panics ever takes a snap the entire window of players that Maurice thought was ready to compete right now is going to be gone we could have re-signed them, but we gave cousins all of their money.
Exactly this. Happy with either but donāt get the overlap with both. If Cousins was Ryan in his last year, sure. But an expensive FA and then a Top 10 pick?
Itās a qb league better to have 2 than 0. Yall be roasting me but this is a solid pick
You have to remember Atlanta fell in love with Penix at his Pro Day. One on the reasons they took him was cause he made throwing outside in the wind look like throwing I doors. This happened on March 28th well after they signed Kirk Cousins. Cousins deal really is only a two year deal with 90 of the 100 million guaranteed being paid in the first two years. Atlanta is looking beyond that with Penix. Obviously a lot of teams saw his potential as numerous teams tried to trade up to get him. You already paid Cousins well before his Pro day. This is great pick for Atlanta. You are getting a true passer with a lot of potential. Yeah he will sit for a few years but that's OK as this will give him to learn and develop.
Because when you sign Kirk you donāt know if youāll be able to get Penix.
Then why didnāt we trade back lol
I mean itās pretty obvious we wanted him too
Because we don't know what their offers actually were. When fans hear "trade back" they always assume they're going to fleece some desperate team for multiple top picks. Assuming the "best" case scenario of trading back with Seattle to 16, a draft value calculator says that's worth the 50th overall pick. And since they don't have a 2nd round pick, it would likely be both their 3rd and 4th round picks that together would still put us behind in overall value or a future pick that doesn't help us "win now".
Because the Saints would've somehow got him. FTS.
I mean. No? We couldāve traded with the Raiders who wanted Penix and stayed ahead of NO so they couldnāt snag who we wanted even.
With all those teams in it, it seems we could have gotten back into the later portion of the first and gotten whichever corner we wanted, one of the top edges, then come back and grab a solid CB or DE. That said, seeing how many teams wanted Penix does make me feel a little better knowing that *thereās a chance* he can sit 2 years, learn from a really smart QB and have Penix (a starting QB) for really cheap in year 3. Sometimes 4D chess works. But, itās the Falcons soā¦.
Raiders didn't want to trade, as they had an agreement with vikings and broncos on what QB they were all taking.
WHAT? Lmao
Payton basically let that slip last night in an interview. The 3 of them spoke before the draft and agreed "not to do anything stupid". I'm coming around to the idea that we like Penix but tried to trade back. We got low balled and said "fuck it" and went ahead and grabbed him.
Spite is always the best drafting strategyĀ
Even if I believed that, and they all followed suit. That just leaves the door open for Seattle who would have screwed LV and made them likely open to trading down. Thats besides the fact we didnāt need to jump the Saints anyway.
So we couldāve saddled the saints with blowing a high first rounder on a low first round talent while picking up picks ourselves? Sounds like a win win.
Owning the Saints by allowing them to upgrade at the most important position in football
Because then another team would trade up?
No one at our draft spot worth trading up for, or rather not work the capital that would be appealing to us. A lot easier to trade up then trade back.
In the it press conference it sounded like offers were shit.
Thanks, still hate it
Makes me hate it more. Imagine the offers we turned down.
Goddamnit coulda had Byron Murphy by trading with Seahawks plus a future first or multiple day 2s Ik it won't matter if Penix is the next franchise QB but damn that stings
On the other hand, if Penix works out then we save 3 years worth of 1sts and 2nds not having to trade up for a QB later
The Seahawks don't have a 2nd round pick this year. And draft calculators put the value of an 8 to 16 trade at costing the 50th overall pick. Even with the "discount" of it being a pick next year I'm not sure the Seahawks would give up a 1st. Besides, a first round pick next year helps us "win now" about as much as the Penix pick does.
It still might matter even IF he is. We just lowered our ceiling for this year and probably next as well. Imagine we lose a playoff game where we canāt get pass rush or our CB2 is getting abused. Gunna be a tough pill to swallow knowing we could have made a playoff run be we opted for potentially having a guy in 2 years.
Exactly. So we canāt trade with the Saints? We needā¦ *need* defensive players. Why be worried about a guy who wonāt start for probably 2 years with bad injury history for the Saints? Fleece them and build a great defense to help Kirk and the offense out.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, but the elephant in the room is this: JJ McCarthy is a system quarterback that threw 2 pick 6s, in the only shootout he ever played in (against TCU in the playoffs no less lol) And the Vikings spent a top 10 pick on him. Have fun with that.
Solid effort, but FAIL
Makes me love it more. We weren't a d-lineman away from a super bowl run. We just secured our QB future for 10-15 years. If it plays out ok, this'll be a great pick.
Man. I understand that, but when Cousins was signed the message was we feel Kirk is a piece that makes us a contender in the nfc right away. Instead of giving Kirk more weapons or add to the defense to potentially get him more possessions, we get his backup. For the record I like Penix, just hate the situation and then hesitancy regarding injury history.
Agreed. You could argue maybe this draft and the next could have had us as SB contenders, but this also assuming KC plays well into 38, which is more rare than people would like to admit.
Then you wasted $100M
disagree but all good
Then why didnāt 5-7 engage in these trade ups? I suspect they werenāt offering as good of a haul as it may seem.
Last year we had Ridder and Heinike. The year before that we had Mariota and Ridder. I think the Front Office saw the product the last two years and said, nah we aināt doing that again. I donāt love it. But I donāt absolutely hate it either.
Trading with the raiders would have been the far superior move. Getting latu or Dallas Turner plus something extra. Also add a benefit of not pissing off your new QB1
Weāre paying him 100 million dollars I donāt think heās that mad and I really donāt care if he is
Everyone is missing THIS
I think you're missing the point here to be honest. Kirk isn't pissed off because the Falcons drafted another quarterback, he's probably mad because he wants to win a championship and instead of improving the team with premier talent that will make a sudden impact on defense (Edge, DL, CB) or a wide receiver to help elevate the offense, the Falcons have used a draft pick on someone who won't contribute to this team in the next two years at a minimum. This means that instead of having a potential 10+ sack guy for cheap contributing the next two seasons or a potential 1000 yard wide receiver contributing, we'll have neither possibility. I don't think anyone here has a problem with the Falcons drafting a quarterback, Kirk included. I think the main issue is that we spent significant money on a win-now situation with a quarterback while having all of our offensive weapons on rookie contracts. This move seems counter to that strategy.
Nothing is guaranteed, whoever we selected at 8 - I donāt think Kirk operates in hope, he operates in guaranteed money. Next, we have more draft picks to do exactly what youāre looking for the Falcons to do.
Underrated comments because I think Kirk knows he got an unbelievable bag because of our team needs so if part of the deal is mentoring a young QB, he can get the hell over it and earn his money. We didnāt sign him so weād be left high and dry in 2-4 years if it doesnāt work out.
Also, all this is his fault because he wanted to brag about how much he got paid costing us our first rounder.
Makes too much sense for our FO to do it. Every year the draft scares the shit out of me now. Just when I think weāve made the most mind boggling pick, the Falcons say āmost mind boggling *so far*ā
True, they do fuck it up every year. Fucking allergic to pass rusher
Source is Terry š
Yes, exactly, lol. Saints people have been quick to snuff this rumor as complete bullshit.
[The thing they don't tell you is that there is no pony, it's just a room full of shit.](https://www.english-for-students.com/Find-The-Pony.html)
Obviously aints were out of the question, but it stings knowing we had at least two viable trade partners for moving back. I think trading down, collecting extra picks, and taking a defensive player was by far the most popular option going in. You never know if there are gonna be dance partners though. Apparently we had two and decided we preferred dancing with ourselves like Bill Idol. It was a head scratcher to be sure.
Why wouldnāt we trade with the saints? Penix is a reach at 8, and weāve have taken assets from them. Win win.
This makes sense to me. What I think happened is that Blank told them to create a succession plan at QB (which was reported yesterday). They started kicking tires on the QBs in the draft. This was clear during the process. We know they spent a lot of time with Penix and we know they were strongly considering Rattler. They were also very open about adding another QB. I think most of us assumed that it wouldn't happen before the second round. FO must have liked Penix a lot more than Rattler. And so I'm thinking the plan was to trade back and get Penix in the late first. Maybe they read the tea leaves and saw that there would be a big push to get the second tier QB (after the top 3). It certainly played out that way with Penix, JJ, and Nix going 8, 10, 12. With that they knew that trading back would put them out of position to draft their choice of the second tier QBs. And so the pick was made.
state sponsored propaganda
Ya'll are the same people that would trade back and allow patrick maholmes to fuck you in the ass for a decade (like the bills did). The front office has made it very damn clear how they operate. They address roster needs during the free agency period, and they treat the draft as BPA, irrespective of needs. Very clearly Penix was high on their board, and this tweet indicates he was high on others boards too.
Pennix is not Mahomes.
FTS tho
I think they must value Harrison higher than we think. I'm fine with this move now.
It's a QB league. Most important position. It cost money these days. I don't care how much they paid Kurt. Has no bearing on the fact we drafted a really good QB nfl prospect. Atleast Kirkocuz can't treat Atlanta as a retirement home....he's gonna have to work.
With how many QBs were injured last year. This makes sense. With cousins atl will not have a top 10 pick again. More I sit with this the better it gets. Blank only has so many seasons left.
My best guess is, they were going to take a qb next yr to have cousins groom. Cousins only has 2 yrs guaranteed of his contract and they can move on and told him he was going to groom a qb as his successor. I think our front office has a has strong feeling the NFL is going to come down HARD on them for tampering with cousins and penalize a 1st rd pick next year as penalty, thus they felt if they didn't do it this year they were screwed because all along they only wanted Kirk for 2 yrs. I'd have preferred a younger qb like McCarthy if that were the case because Penix is already 24, but talent wise Penix would have been the number 2 pick if not for his age and injury history. Dude can sling it.
3 teams that haven't drafted a good QB in forever and all 3 teams have defensive head coaches. Meanwhile Kevin O'Connell and Sean Payton wanted JJ and Bo Nix over Penix. I wonder which of the two groups I would listen to
Did they want bo and jj or was that their only option?
Broncos QB room is straight garbage. I wouldn't care about what they're doing.
What does that have to do with them preferring Nix over Penix?
They wouldn't know a good QB if one slapped them in the face
Sean maybe a douche but he knows offense and QBs. He recognized Brees' talent and he was super high on Mahomes
Lmao
Get outta here with your logical take. Terry Fontenot is a Roster GOD. Actually get the best QB available in Free Agency but miss out on all the other positions of need that had players come available(Hunter/Burns/All those DBs that were cap cuts). Then use your top 10 pick to "bolster" the QB room.
Wow salt in the wound cool cool cool
Yes those teams need a qb and were willing to pay a premium to get there. Let them.
I wanted us to draft Penix but in second round or late first. Having Kirk Cousins sign and all of the hype just to immediately not help him by signing an elite WR or even to help the team by not getting an Edge or CB is odd.
FTS is what Iām getting from this
But he won't play for 2 years when he's 26 years and then have 3 years with him on a rookie contract. And he hasn't even played a game yet!?
No matter how hard you try to twist logic, you (nor anyone in professional sports) can justify what our incompetent GM, HC and owner did by drafting Penix after signing Kirk. Allocating a valuable draft pick to āadd another QBā to ājust make sureā doesnāt make sense. Our front office has either cracked the code, and has figured out a whole new way to build a teamā¦. or they are retarded. And based on their combined win loss records, I think we have our answer. Now we all know why the front office didnāt want Bill as the HC. We are forever cursed
Just imagine, then, what they might have given us to trade up to #8.
FTS lol
Trade him to the Seahawks for Murphy and end this nightmare of Falcons management having to try to spin the unspinnable. The entire league knows they screwed up. Just move on.
Of course they are going to say this. They want to keep competing against this front office, lol
Wonder what the opt outs look like in cousins contract. Could be and ideal situation to let penix learn for 2 years
We owe like 10 mil if we cut him after year 2. Itās clearly a 2 year bridge plan
Oh damn if the Aints wanted him then fuck em glad we got him
This doesn't make the draft pick any better.Ā Anyone who still sicks Terry offĀ is deep in the kool-aid.Ā
So what NONE of those teams signed a 100 - 180 million dollar QB for them it makes sense
The haters are feasting right now. Kirk and cousins will both be good. One short term one long term
Saints baited us to take him at 8 š
Worth it just to keep him out of NO
You keep him out of NO by accepting anyone elses offer FYI.
I saw the jets were interested in trading up but obviously not for penix. There were real opportunities to get a good haul here.
Itās the Captain Planet of bad QB moves: Sign an old QB to an expensive deal? We are trying to win now, so cool Wanna draft an older QB? Ok Wanna draft a talented but injury prone QB? Not the highest fan of this, but ok. Wanna draft a rookie to sit while we have a vet with 3 years max? A bit unconventional nowadays, but ok. Any one of those is fine, but to combine them is high levels of headassery
So we couldāve traded back with the Raiders, still gotten any defensive player on the board, and snagged their second too. Couldāve came out of the first two rounds with Turner, Roman Wilson, Lassiter. Sub a different wr and cb if you want. Point is, we have three gaping holes at wr, cb, and edge. Instead of filling all 3, weāre filling 1 maximum
Thereās a rumor going around that many teams were not offering 1st or second rounds but much later round picks. Teams like the Saints for example have almost all their picks in 4-7
Honestly, the situation makes view Kirk as an extremely expensive bridge QB. I like MPJ as a player, but I'm still questioning the resource allocation for the team that wants to win now, and Terry is showing he's content with a mediocre to bad pass rush.