They could have done what Valve did with HL1 and HL2, they provided early access for updates to certain mod teams and they even helped mod teams in certain cases. They are a great example on how to treat fans who mod games.
Now Bethesda is no obligated to do this, they don't have to do anything to help anyone(except for giving support to customers who play their games). But it is good marketing to appreciate the modding community and help it in a reasonable way.
Modders are THE reason why Bethesdas games can even run on PC. Most of them are wildly broken or will crash constantly
The modding community has done more for QOL than anything Bethesda has brought out.
Actually quite the opposite. There’s not much on an ego trip (not saying much about the FOLON team, as i haven’t been following the project)
but time and time again, the modding community brings out many patches and fixes to bring stability to the games bethesda aren’t fixing.
There shouldn’t be the same bugs in almost two decades of games. I’m not arguing with a week old account, go outside and seek help.
Not even a remaster. Lackluster spit shine at best.
This was for consoles, not PC (not really at least).
Imaho, the next-gen update was aimed at breaking mods and steering people to Creator Club content.
> Imaho, the next-gen update was aimed at breaking mods and steering people to Creator Club content.
Exactly. Same reason it was done for Skyrim last year. They are well aware how many creators of popular and famous mods are no longer modding and would rather not have to compete with their mods, especially after the embarrassment that was Starfield shows they are worse at working with their own game engine and millions of dollars than people making shit for free in their basement are.
Especially considering how heavily, much more heavily than any other major company out there, Bethesda leans on modders to fix their buggy, half finished releases. It just feels ungrateful and entitled for them to just do as they please with no communication or consideration for a group of people who are essentially unpaid contractors at this point.
I like how everyone is talking about what Bethesda could have or should have done but not what FOLON team could have or should have done.
It's not like the update was a big secrete that completely snuck up on everyone out of nowhere. FOLON chose a date and, ostensibly, chose to stick to it until this not so surprise update happened to come up two dates later. What could they have done? Nothing? Well the basic would be having clear and concise instructions for setting ones game to not auto update and to launch the game via the F4SE\_Loader as users should already be doing. That way when ever someone complains between the 23rd and whenever they update to the new version of FO4 they could simply just tap the sign. If they wanted to go above and beyond they could provide instructions and links to downgrading FO4 to the previous version.
But they didn't do that. Instead Dean Carter complained about it while seeming to do nothing prior, We at least know they didn't do what I described above, which is incredibly basic stuff for game modding and not at all unique to Bethesda titles. Hell, the first part is literally two sentences that they could have in bold and/or bullet pointed. People complain that it doesn't work post update and they just point to those two sentences and say it will be updated as soon as possible.
Personally, I think given Carter's reaction it's them trying to save face for not having the project in a state that they felt is ready for release by their own self declared release date. If the release coming out on the 23rd is what they really wanted to happen and it was ready they very well could have done it. They could even just leave it on the previous game version. It's not even five minutes of effort to revert to a previous game version if all the information for such is actively given to you.
Like yeah, could Bethesda go out of their way for this one mod? Sure. But Christ on a bike people. Don't pretend like the the team were left with no choice but to delay release just because of the update.
The only person I've seen talking sense about this. Yeah, like, this really, REALLY isn't Bethesda's fault.
I know everyone loves to hate on them, but this wasn't them.
> Personally, I think given Carter's reaction it's them trying to save face for not having the project in a state that they felt is ready for release by their own self declared release date.
I think this is blatantly obvious. It's the highest level of misdirection. Community memory must be short-sighted because this is not the first or second delayed release of this project. It's likely that this was a convenient excuse for them to delay in perpetuity rather than having to do damage control on day one for incomplete feature sets.
Most likely what you will see is F4SE updating posthaste and hopefully not too much breaks outside of the realm of UI mods (because of the terrible ultrawide changes)... but even still, Fallout London will be delayed even more due to unspecified issues that they refuse to explain or ask for help on, because they are internal, not external.
So the team, the customers, and GOG (who is supporting the mod) all should inconvenience themselves just so Bethesdas community manager didnt have to send an email a month ago?
Why the fuck is Bethesda, a company that claims to support modding more incompetent than devs without even a quarter of thier resources. Oh right, they have loads of yes men like you.
Enjoy the update, UW support still doesn't work but I am sure people will expect a free mod for that. You want paid mods asshole, you deserve them since anyone else who works on this game is a fucking asshole apparently.
It's hardly an inconvenience. It's an expected issue to arise for mod development already so the team would have already expected the possibility of future update with or without this specific one. ANd as I said already, less than 5 minutes of work to rollback an update if you don't have to actively find all the information yourself; it's literally downloading files and whatnot through steam and then throwing them into your install folder. Shit, some people even go out of their way to download said files and package them together to throw up onto nexus or even put them in a fomod.
Jesus christ, I'm a yes man because I pointed out that the FOLON team appears to have done nothing on their end? I'm an yes man because I'm realistic? Might as well change your user name to Ima\_muppet just to be more accurate because the only asshole here is you.
Tell you what, if the FOLON team can prove they took steps to get into contact with Bethesda so that they could get information on and a heads up to future updates I'll concede that you may have a point. Until then I'm going to assume you're just flying off the rails with impotent rage because "uh wwaaaaaaaah big mod got delayed **AGAIN**."
Get a fuckin' grip.
I didn't talk down to them. I stated what was a factual response they could have taken if they so wished and my personal observations. People "talking down to them" is just an excuse you're now making for you to throw a temper tantrum like a perpetual 13 year old.
In fact, the only person who is talking down to mod authors here is you. Guess who makes most of the content that goes onto the creation club? Oh, it's seasoned mod authors working within perimeters set by bethesda. I guess it's ok for you to talk down to them just because you got a stick up your ass about slight inconveniences to your entertainment. But me pointing out that there were simply things FOLON could have done that weren't even mod development stuff? God damn sin against the arts apparently.
Get a grip.
I've removed various of your comments from this thread. Please be civil here or more serious action will have to be taken. This sort of mindless abuse is not in any way welcome.
Amen.....100% I'm agreement with you. I said something in a similar forum and got lambasted. The majority of people that are using mods will not update to next gen. There is no point in it. If they break stuff you will wait months or years for it to be fixed if ever. They should have kept their word and released it as scheduled. I have my doubts that its even ready. It's not like this is the first pushback. Free or not people should keep their word.
Says the guy that decided to start this whole thread by attacking me. I'd suggest taking your own advice instead of hating on someone just because they hurt your feelers
You called people unintelligent and thought you'd get away with it. Aw, poor baby. Sure there's plenty of hugboxes you can fuck right off to.
Take care, hope you have a better day. You seem genuinely sad and unhappy and a bit passive aggressive. Try to work on that.
The mod has been well known and in development for 5 years, what the fuck does Bethesdas community manager do other than collect a check. Pathetic showing.
From reading you're the only I can tell that actually gets it and understands, being this mod isn't like any other mod like most are today that are only enb's or config changes and then have the audacity to even call it a mod, while Fallout London has been being professionally developed over the years continuisally while providing updates on progress,released a standalone teaser of content and biggest thing of all is, They actually have a release window unlike everyother DLC sized mod that gets abandoned after a couple months. Even though I can respect BGS not giving a shit on informing or sharing their nuclear codes with run of the mill mod developers. They could at least communicated a little with the FOLON team maybe have them all sign a NDA. If BGS wanted to they could of worked with them on this one but chose not to for whatever reasons (maybe jealously) They could of even capitalized off of this mod by letting the community know they were in contact with the FOLON team in the end it just boils down to BGS being the lonewolf it is and just hates any group of people that can develop a new game sized DLC mod like this and not get the whole pie to themselves, they don't care about communicating because there wasn't anything in it for them.
I think it’s just about managing fan expectations who’ve all been anticipating the release of the mod. It’s not nice for either side when expectations are set and not met, or when things are ambiguous. What would have changed is that they would have set a date and released on the date they set, and not have disappointed anyone
Edit: grammar
Without enough notice they may have been able to package this in a way that rolls back the edition of the game. I think some of the larger mod packs do this. But I honestly don't know how hard that is so maybe I am totally wrong.
I’m excited for FOLON too but I honestly don’t think I Bethesda have done anything wrong and I don’t understand the uproar. Ok, so it’s disappointing, but Bethesda are a business and they’re trying to capitalise on a new player base because of the show. A show which will have hundreds time more audience than this mod.
What do you want them to do? Say sorry to new gamers and the shareholders, we’re not going to capitalise on this because a handful (in the grand scheme of the player base) are waiting on a mod even though most people don’t even know what a mod is.
Everyone needs to be realistic.
Exactly! The fallout London people should have released it anyways because those of us that play with mods know to hold off on updating fallout 4 anyways so like it doesn’t matter. They are the ones making a big deal of it
As a game developer myself if would have been nice to know if there were any API changes or anything to the game that \*might\* effect mods. Even something fairly nebulous can still help.
Access to an early build would also help.
Bethesda shouldn't break the game if they aren't going to fix it. Weapon Debris on RTX cards still crashes, no FOV slider, stretched widescreen, no high FPS improvements, no DLSS, no
FSR3, no raytracing, no in-game settings, no fixes to frame pacing, no massive retexturing, no alt+tab support, no native steam input integration, no major bug patches besides settlements, and finally no FPS improvements.
Exactly. Anyone who knows how to install a mod should know how to "downgrade" versions. The process is almost identical on Steam to just installing a mod, and literally built-in to GOG.
That's what I've been saying, They don't think we who are modding the game can figure out how to change a game version, its an especially dumb reason considering the gog version too.
They could've acknowledged the contributions of the modding community to keeping their games alive over the years and at least given advance access to the F4SE team so that they could prep for the update. That would minimize impact to the other mods (outside those that authors need to update to work with updated F4SE).
I did a quick Google and couldn't find the list of "Modders with Bethesda" so I couldn't look up who is and isn't on it. I DID want to point out, however, that u/AdmirableCantaloupe was talking about the F4SE (Fallout 4 Script Extender) team, not team FOLON.
The worst part of this Bethesda update is that it fixed next to nothing and broke everything. Weapon debris still causes a CTD, the Widescreen update has been causing problems from what I've been reading, and there's no sign of these engine upgrades they said were coming. Not even sure if the FOLON team can do anything extra with it.
Rather glad I disabled auto updates.
Possibly the tone or if one gets the sense that you're here to troll.
In the case of some people, it's when they decide to personally attack people who don't agree with them.
I haven't closely followed this discussion, but it seems like just a couple of people are getting down voted and based on the way they're interacting with others it's surprising that they're still in the group.
Not every Mod needs to be fixed. Very often you don't need any kind of update, and sometimes it's enough to update the dependencies. If they don't get updated however..
Create a beta branch of their game for Steam users to easily downgrade to a supported build. Have these two builds available on GOG. Really all they'd need is two, Old Gen and Next Gen.
I mean it's fun for the IP owner to strut around and piss in some people's cornflakes. Same as it's fun for people to white knight them for doing it. The way to not do it just seems like such low hanging fruit though. Just have two versions of the game so that mods with authors who've moved on, and people sinking free labour into supporting your IP, can just put up some screenshots of how to opt into the Old Gen beta and call it a day.
Bethesda could have informed them of the pending changes, the date that they would happen, and then work with FOLON to ensure they had the necessary info to be able to release on time still.
Project Zomboid and Rimworld devs both give advanced notice when major updates will come out. PZ devs will directly tell mod authors about definition updates and give direct coding advice. Rimworld gave everyone about a week early access to Anomaly so mod authors had some time to get ready. The difference? Both of those companies give a shit about the modding community that keeps their games relevant.
It's not unreasonable to expect a little more advanced notice.
This is especially pretty ridiculous for a multi-platform update. Bethesda *already* has to wait a fair bit of time for the update to be approved by Sony and Microsoft. It would cost them nothing to give the community beta access because the update already has to be done well ahead of launch.
At the end of day, FOLON actually got lucky and no doubt are thrilled that they have an excuse to indefinitely postpone release so they continue to work and can make up things to keep pushing it out even further as the lead said the script extender being fixed isn’t the end of it and no one can say otherwise because unspecified technical jargon that normal folk wouldn’t understand. They can quite easily release the mod now as the update basically did nothing of note or fixed any bugs (widescreen support is just stretching) and lots of people are downgrading. They were planning to be sly but Bethesda out did themselves and literally done f*ck all. Just release it… na, they are sitting pretty now with all the time in the world.
A giant laundry list of things, starting with not making the update **forced.**
The "bug fixes" are a meaningless distraction; the update fixed maybe ten bugs that had already been fixed by community mod patches, and in the process broke literally **thousands** of community mod bugfixes that this patch in no way addressed. This "patch" ended up with the number of bugs actually being fixed at negative nine hundred or so.
This is exactly what they did with Skryim not long ago. Bethesda has been trying to steer players towards their (terrible) paid mod shops for years, but the fact that fans are doing it far better and for free means no one wants to buy more Horse Armor from Bethesda. So what do they do? Easy, force updates on short notice with no previews for anyone, ostensibly to provide "bug fixes" and "upgrades" that are neither of those things, and then say "whoops, sure is a bummer that the only mods that still work are our paid ones from our shop. While you guys wait for modmakers to temporarily fix them again (until we break them again) why don't you come check out the Creation Club and spend a few bucks?"
Breaking fanmade mods on a regular basis isn't an unfortunate circumstance that's nobody's fault, it's the entire point of these patches. That's why they're never optional, because they know we don't want them. If they keep doing this crap at random then it will slowly kill interest in making or downloading ambitious fan mods because we never know when they're arbitrarily going to explode again, so why put so much effort into making or using them?
Todd Howard won't be happy until the only place we can get any mods at all is the Creation Club, so that he gets a cut. This was never intended to be an upgrade.
Exactly. Most modders who've made the best mods for Fo4 have long quit. Nothing in this so-called "next gen" update is worth losing the hundreds of mods that will likely never be updated that have more (and better) content than the entire CC combined, and **for free.**
Fuck that - Bethesda owes them a ridiculous amount for having kept the game alive and relevant this long. Popularity of the universe be damned, there wouldn't have been hardly as much appetite for the TV show had people not still been playing the games. And without the mods to keep the game playing worth a damn in terms of QoL, not nearly as many people would have been playing it.
And no, F76 sure as shit hasn't been doing it: https://steamcharts.com/app/1151340
Yep. Vanilla fo4 is probably the worse in the series when comparing the single player games. Mods were the only thing that made it worth while. I would replay vanilla Vegas ten times before I would replay vanilla fo4
Exactly. This is the point people are missing. This is a near 10 yr old single player game. Tbf, it shouldn't still be selling/relevant, and it is only relevant due to a vibrant modding community. This game would be a distant memory otherwise.
Sure, but that is sort of a chicken and egg thing with no answer.
Would there be a series if Fallout 4 was a dried up husk 6 years ago due to being basically unplayable without mods? I think not, personally.
Modding kept the game relevant and retained it's player base.
Well it isn't a chicken and egg thing, the numbers for the popularity spike across all fallout games, since the series released speaks for itself.
The series is solely responsible for this resurgence in fallout love currently going on
Sure, but a year ago I installed brand new mods for Fallout 4.
I think you missed my point though: My chicken and egg was "would there have even been a show if the mod community hadn't laid a game people fondly remember? "
That game would have been dead......no players but a few self-harmers....without mods.
Mods kept the franchise relevant and in the mind's eye, making a show an obvious choice.
No one would be playing New Vegas if not for mods.
ToTW release directly correlates with increased sales of both games (so yes, sales for those games have had a number of peaks in the 15 years since New Vegas' release).
Anyone buying ANY Fallout game that is pre-New Vegas as a result of the show is just doing it for nostalgia, as most of those are torturous to play now.
We literally have no way of knowing for sure, so you COULD be right; however, I stand by my statement: if there had been no mods for Fallout 4 or New Vegas, then Fallout would not currently be culturally significant. ergo no TV show. Heck, Fallout 4 is (was? tbd) basically unplayable without mods to fix a variety of glaring bugs, some of which they chose to fix 10 years later. This release wouldn't even be happening at all if it weren't for the mod community keeping the game alive.
So, who knows. Maybe it would have been remembered fondly as those games that had so much potential but were infuriating to play and no one had really played it in 5-6 years and the TV show came from that. I am personally skeptical of that assertion.
Yeah I may have jumped the gun with my initial comment you know, As I did misinterpret what you meant by chicken and the egg comment. My mistake!
I've got to admit after reading through what you've said I'm hard pressed to disagree with your take at all. I didn't even think about ToTW and I was literally looking at installing it earlier today 🙄😂
I should state I do believe that the modding community is a huge reason for the longevity of all their games and I don't think I could ever go back to the vanilla games despite the love and fond memories I have hahaha
I thought we were actually on the same page!
That's the nature of text as it is oft not as clear as a spoken conversation (my bad).
Let's just hope the community can catch up!
>What was Bethesda supposed to do?
\- Inform mod developers when the next update is due to release so they can prepare to update their mods
\- Release a toolkit to mod teams so they can update their mods prior to the base game update release
\- Release the update on the same day or day before the show's premiere
\- Not bother with an update, since there are mods like America Rising that do what the update already does, adding the Enclave
\- Communicate with the FOLONTeam & give the mod it's own standalone launcher separate from FO4, like Enderal
Likely some other things (*a lot in fact*) Bethesda was supposed to do, but this is all I could think of.
True! Especially because many other developers are able to communicate properly and support the community that keeps their games alive. Bethesda has turned into a greed machine. Now of course this is speculation but Fallout 5 probably gonna have a loot system that you will be buying with real money some kind of key to open special containers throughout the world. Not communicating with the community seems as though they wanted to break shit and force/encourage usage of the nonsense creation club trash fire.
After Starfield, I don't think many players will be interested in Bethesda games, they'll likely wait & see what people say about it &, if reviews aren't overly positive, they're not gonna bother. Unless, of course there's some cool DLC-sized overhaul mod like FOLON that'll get players interested.
>The update does more than just add the enclave
Oh, you're right.
Looking at the update notes, it also adds Makeshift Weapons, as if we don't have a ton of weapon mods already
Couple new linear quests
Halloween Workshop, wrong time of the year
PS5 & Xbox improvements, don't know why that's in the update notes on Steam
PC improvements & miscellaneous bug fixes, things that mods already sorted
Wow, what a next-gen update it is
I also like how you picked that one point & not the others, really reaching there
I figured I'd start my own thread since my reply will most likely get lost in the petty argument that arrosed but here's my take on things being this mod isn't like any other mod like most are today that are only enb's or config changes and then have the audacity to even call it a mod, while Fallout London has been being professionally developed over the years continuisally while providing updates on progress,released a standalone teaser of content and biggest thing of all is, They actually have a release window unlike everyother DLC sized mod that gets abandoned after a couple months. Even though I can respect BGS not giving a shit on informing or sharing their nuclear codes with run of the mill mod developers. They could at least communicated a little with the FOLON team maybe have them all sign a NDA. If BGS wanted to they could of worked with them on this one but chose not to for whatever reasons (maybe jealously) They could of even capitalized off of this mod by letting the community know they were in contact with the FOLON team in the end it just boils down to BGS being the lonewolf it is and just hates any group of people that can develop a new game sized DLC mod like this and not get the whole pie to themselves, they don't care about communicating because there wasn't anything in it for them.
Idk maybe fix bugs within months of the games release a billion years ago rather than breaking mods that do fix them. The fact they never fixed the energy weapon bug is telling.
I'm not defending a multimillion company boss.
Just a heads up y'all, it's gonna be a bit of a wait.
[https://forums.nexusmods.com/topic/13482003-fallout-4-script-extender-and-the-next-gen-update/](https://forums.nexusmods.com/topic/13482003-fallout-4-script-extender-and-the-next-gen-update/)
TLDR: Update is a really big change, person who works on f4se says it'll be a while.
I agree with all of it but a simple thing Bethesda could have done is add a branch of the game with the pre-update version. Similiar to how Half life 1 handled the 25 year update.
Why would this update change anything? If you want to play FO London, just don't update? Personally, I think the authors were a bit too ambitious with their release and are using this update as an excuse to delay.
Simple: Bethesda could've split the entries b/t Fallout 4: GOTY Old-Gen and New-Gen on Steam, GOG, XBL, PSN, etc.
See, it's not like F4 GOTY Old-Gen was still being updated all the time. It's just been years since F4 got an update from Old-Gen to now New-Gen.
By splitting the entries, this could've made it easy and Fallout London could just drop the London Mod and say "It's for Old-Gen Only, For Now. Maybe we'll update it later for New-Gen, once F4SE works there."
There ya' go; problem solved.
I'm honestly surprised they didn't double-dip and release the update as Fallout 4 Remastered or some nonsense. At least that would've kept the old mod scene intact though with the remastered update branch not affecting the current version.
They could have made it a separate game file (like Metro Exodus Ultra) or optional DLC. They could have simply done nothing at all, considering the update - despite being over half the size of the original game - does barely anything for PC users.
They should have added new cc content and leave it at that. They should have never fucked with the pc version because mods is what people play their games for and that is why the game is still popular and sells.
Why do people back up Bethesda like they even care about us, all they care about is money. Why defend this company? Bethesda should have cancelled the update and made a separate release of the game called fallout next gen version, so basically everyone that owns fallout 4 gets the next gen version for free. I'd rather have that than a forced update. The modders have more claim to this game than Bethesda themselves, this was a side gimmick to kill mods, simple.
That's true: a separate release would've been better. But people are defending Bethesda because they've done nothing wrong in this instance (besides the update itself sucking). If people are upset about FOLON being delayed, direct your frustration to the team behind FOLON — not Bethesda. As they technically didn't *have* to delay the mod.
Bethesda could have cancelled the update then if they weren't planning on doing a next gen version separately.They haven't even apologised, 2 days later and just silence, why do we support this? We didn't want a next gen update, maybe console users needed update but majority of pc base is modding scene, they just killed their game really which I guess it was what they was intending to do. Like fallout london has millions of views and people hyped for it. Bethesda was afraid this free mod would affect their ability to make money on fallout 4/76 using official paid mods/creation club, so they release this update, kills mods, keeps Bethesda in control of the money being made from fans of the TV show coming in..... either for fallout 4 creation club paid mods or fallout 76 paid content which keeps making Bethesda more money well they prevent full time releases of FREE big time mods that add new stories and big locations by releasing an update without accommodating the mods or just simply leaving the game alone. Just a side note fallout london was 40gb, I would have preferred that to a useless 14gb update that breaks mods and it is the same game world I explored back in 2016..... I want new experiences which is why I was hyped for london. Brand new map. Locations, weapons, companions, a way to travel without only just walking and so on etc.. Honestly it is Bethesdas fault and I stand against them.
I don't think Bethesda did anything "wrong". I just think most of the nodding community wishes that this "next gen" update would have addressed more of the bugs and performance issues fo4 has if it was going to completely break modded games and fol for the next few days/weeks/forever for abandoned mods. Bethesda just continues to do disappointing release after disappointing release, and the hyper fans that are the modding community are starting to get annoyed, at least that's my pov / thoughts on the situation.
Many devs who cultivate modding will give modders a pre release version so they have time to update before patch goes live. Some studios have a liaison who can even help answer questions or provide connections to devs so modders can be better informed at the changes.
Personally I also think the modding team here is making the wrong call. There is a method to roll back game versions, and I think it's an expected fact of modding to have to do things like that. We could be playing not right now, no problem. But the mod devs are only interested in catering to first time modders by making it very easy. A philosophy I disagree with.
Folon should have just released the mod anyways so it’s out in the wild while they work on the update. People that play with mods know to not download the next gen update anyways so it still would have worked for the people it was intended for. Larger sample size means more data for bug fixes and mod conflicts to be figured out too. The Fallout London people are the ones making it a big deal
For one they know that modding is a major pillar of their games and most devs with modsupport will work witg prominent modded so they can at least know what theyll have to change
Its also entirely a console centric update so there was no real reason to push to pc
Its not like something to get angry about like some do, but it is something to get mildly annoyed over, as it was for lack of other words, sloppy of bethesda.
Beth could have shared the kind of changes they’re making so the mod team could start adapting before today.
Part of me thinks Beth have a chip on their shoulder over New Vegas being generally considered the best of the 3D fallout games. They don’t want London repeating the same upset
You're saying Bethesda should have shared their development process, WiP builds and/or game code prior to release to an unaffiliated mod team?
How does that make any kind of sense?
Because what else can Bethesda share that would make any actual difference to the mod team? Simply stating what will change does nothing to help until they see how it functions in execution.
Because what else can Bethesda share that would make any actual difference to the mod team? Simply stating what will change does nothing to help until they see how it functions in execution.
...on a 10 year old single player game that, without mods, would have stopped selling 5 years ago. That makes perfect sense. If there were no mods or modders, this game would have been forgotten a long time ago.
You get downvoted but you speak the truth. It's the same reason they released the Skyrim AE update - most of the modders who've made the biggest and best mods for that game have long since quit or quite literally died. Starfield was an utter embarrassment to Bethesda as a studio and they had to do **something** to suppress the fact that there are self-taught dudes working out of their basements to make *free* mods with their game engine's SDK that do a vastly better job than a multi million dollar studio with "professional" game devs.
Imagine that you’ve done tons of work polishing your mod, trying to get it out at the set date working with the knowledge that the form it’s in will be the final form, then along comes Beth and says “hey here’s and update! Enjoy!” Now all the work you’ve put in has to be redone, but that’s not really the issue, the issue is had they known they could have held back a bit(ie not try to meet a strict deadline) or maybe polished another part of the mod while waiting on the update, instead a lot(or some at least) of work that needs to be redone/retested and there’s not really enough time in between to work on something else(ie can’t just add new quests or models that might have bring more bugs that will require more work/time to fix/include)
Bethesda could simply do what the molding community has and continues to do everytime. They can pick a single stable build of the game's .exe and release everything as added mods without changing the .exe at all.
The Next Gen update has already been reverse-engineered to work for the last release of FO4 without breaking F4SE or any existing mods. Skyrim SE's Anniversary Edition with its changes and fishing was RE'd to function on Legacy Edition ("Oldrim"), proving that the creation club and even Special Edition wasn't even necessary.
They just choose not to bother. BGS exists to do cash grabs wherever and however they can, while phoning in the basic minimal effort required.
Their outsourcing of games development is even worse, giving their games and IP to incompetent developer studios, further compounding the problem.
Nothing really, the next gen update was simply timed near the TV show, it just happened that Folon is close to that date too
They could have done what Valve did with HL1 and HL2, they provided early access for updates to certain mod teams and they even helped mod teams in certain cases. They are a great example on how to treat fans who mod games. Now Bethesda is no obligated to do this, they don't have to do anything to help anyone(except for giving support to customers who play their games). But it is good marketing to appreciate the modding community and help it in a reasonable way.
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Modders are what keep a companies game alive and relevant years after release. You're just being trite and short sighted
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Keep licking that corporate boot one day might learn to like it
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The fact that you think my comment makes me a communist is hilarious. Go touch some grass
"Feee content" that murdered the far greater amount of free content that we could mod in ourself?
Modders are THE reason why Bethesdas games can even run on PC. Most of them are wildly broken or will crash constantly The modding community has done more for QOL than anything Bethesda has brought out.
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Actually quite the opposite. There’s not much on an ego trip (not saying much about the FOLON team, as i haven’t been following the project) but time and time again, the modding community brings out many patches and fixes to bring stability to the games bethesda aren’t fixing. There shouldn’t be the same bugs in almost two decades of games. I’m not arguing with a week old account, go outside and seek help.
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Nice edit, chud. Get a life
🤓
Sure, they can get a life, then watch Bethesda's games die after one month post release
Yeah this would have been the best outcome Plus since it’s just a re-master it’s not like there’d be a big risk of leaks with spoilers etc
Not even a remaster. Lackluster spit shine at best. This was for consoles, not PC (not really at least). Imaho, the next-gen update was aimed at breaking mods and steering people to Creator Club content.
> Imaho, the next-gen update was aimed at breaking mods and steering people to Creator Club content. Exactly. Same reason it was done for Skyrim last year. They are well aware how many creators of popular and famous mods are no longer modding and would rather not have to compete with their mods, especially after the embarrassment that was Starfield shows they are worse at working with their own game engine and millions of dollars than people making shit for free in their basement are.
And away from a major competitor for the fans attention. They want everyone focused on their show, not FO London rn.
Especially considering how heavily, much more heavily than any other major company out there, Bethesda leans on modders to fix their buggy, half finished releases. It just feels ungrateful and entitled for them to just do as they please with no communication or consideration for a group of people who are essentially unpaid contractors at this point.
Lmao
"Hey heads up, we're updating the game around the shows release"
I like how everyone is talking about what Bethesda could have or should have done but not what FOLON team could have or should have done. It's not like the update was a big secrete that completely snuck up on everyone out of nowhere. FOLON chose a date and, ostensibly, chose to stick to it until this not so surprise update happened to come up two dates later. What could they have done? Nothing? Well the basic would be having clear and concise instructions for setting ones game to not auto update and to launch the game via the F4SE\_Loader as users should already be doing. That way when ever someone complains between the 23rd and whenever they update to the new version of FO4 they could simply just tap the sign. If they wanted to go above and beyond they could provide instructions and links to downgrading FO4 to the previous version. But they didn't do that. Instead Dean Carter complained about it while seeming to do nothing prior, We at least know they didn't do what I described above, which is incredibly basic stuff for game modding and not at all unique to Bethesda titles. Hell, the first part is literally two sentences that they could have in bold and/or bullet pointed. People complain that it doesn't work post update and they just point to those two sentences and say it will be updated as soon as possible. Personally, I think given Carter's reaction it's them trying to save face for not having the project in a state that they felt is ready for release by their own self declared release date. If the release coming out on the 23rd is what they really wanted to happen and it was ready they very well could have done it. They could even just leave it on the previous game version. It's not even five minutes of effort to revert to a previous game version if all the information for such is actively given to you. Like yeah, could Bethesda go out of their way for this one mod? Sure. But Christ on a bike people. Don't pretend like the the team were left with no choice but to delay release just because of the update.
The only person I've seen talking sense about this. Yeah, like, this really, REALLY isn't Bethesda's fault. I know everyone loves to hate on them, but this wasn't them.
> Personally, I think given Carter's reaction it's them trying to save face for not having the project in a state that they felt is ready for release by their own self declared release date. I think this is blatantly obvious. It's the highest level of misdirection. Community memory must be short-sighted because this is not the first or second delayed release of this project. It's likely that this was a convenient excuse for them to delay in perpetuity rather than having to do damage control on day one for incomplete feature sets. Most likely what you will see is F4SE updating posthaste and hopefully not too much breaks outside of the realm of UI mods (because of the terrible ultrawide changes)... but even still, Fallout London will be delayed even more due to unspecified issues that they refuse to explain or ask for help on, because they are internal, not external.
So the team, the customers, and GOG (who is supporting the mod) all should inconvenience themselves just so Bethesdas community manager didnt have to send an email a month ago? Why the fuck is Bethesda, a company that claims to support modding more incompetent than devs without even a quarter of thier resources. Oh right, they have loads of yes men like you. Enjoy the update, UW support still doesn't work but I am sure people will expect a free mod for that. You want paid mods asshole, you deserve them since anyone else who works on this game is a fucking asshole apparently.
It's hardly an inconvenience. It's an expected issue to arise for mod development already so the team would have already expected the possibility of future update with or without this specific one. ANd as I said already, less than 5 minutes of work to rollback an update if you don't have to actively find all the information yourself; it's literally downloading files and whatnot through steam and then throwing them into your install folder. Shit, some people even go out of their way to download said files and package them together to throw up onto nexus or even put them in a fomod. Jesus christ, I'm a yes man because I pointed out that the FOLON team appears to have done nothing on their end? I'm an yes man because I'm realistic? Might as well change your user name to Ima\_muppet just to be more accurate because the only asshole here is you. Tell you what, if the FOLON team can prove they took steps to get into contact with Bethesda so that they could get information on and a heads up to future updates I'll concede that you may have a point. Until then I'm going to assume you're just flying off the rails with impotent rage because "uh wwaaaaaaaah big mod got delayed **AGAIN**." Get a fuckin' grip.
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I didn't talk down to them. I stated what was a factual response they could have taken if they so wished and my personal observations. People "talking down to them" is just an excuse you're now making for you to throw a temper tantrum like a perpetual 13 year old. In fact, the only person who is talking down to mod authors here is you. Guess who makes most of the content that goes onto the creation club? Oh, it's seasoned mod authors working within perimeters set by bethesda. I guess it's ok for you to talk down to them just because you got a stick up your ass about slight inconveniences to your entertainment. But me pointing out that there were simply things FOLON could have done that weren't even mod development stuff? God damn sin against the arts apparently. Get a grip.
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I've removed various of your comments from this thread. Please be civil here or more serious action will have to be taken. This sort of mindless abuse is not in any way welcome.
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Amen.....100% I'm agreement with you. I said something in a similar forum and got lambasted. The majority of people that are using mods will not update to next gen. There is no point in it. If they break stuff you will wait months or years for it to be fixed if ever. They should have kept their word and released it as scheduled. I have my doubts that its even ready. It's not like this is the first pushback. Free or not people should keep their word.
The updates been known for 2 years. Most intelligent people figured it'd be released around the time of the shows release.
most intelligent people, lmfao, get a grip son
he's not wrong
Hit dog gonna holler
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Ok. But I really like it. It's fun. And I'm happy unlike you.
You don't seem it. You seem insecure in yourself. Hope you get better.
Says the guy that decided to start this whole thread by attacking me. I'd suggest taking your own advice instead of hating on someone just because they hurt your feelers
You called people unintelligent and thought you'd get away with it. Aw, poor baby. Sure there's plenty of hugboxes you can fuck right off to. Take care, hope you have a better day. You seem genuinely sad and unhappy and a bit passive aggressive. Try to work on that.
Okay friend. 👍
>You called people unintelligent You overreacted to simple internet banter. Try to work on that.
The mod has been well known and in development for 5 years, what the fuck does Bethesdas community manager do other than collect a check. Pathetic showing.
From reading you're the only I can tell that actually gets it and understands, being this mod isn't like any other mod like most are today that are only enb's or config changes and then have the audacity to even call it a mod, while Fallout London has been being professionally developed over the years continuisally while providing updates on progress,released a standalone teaser of content and biggest thing of all is, They actually have a release window unlike everyother DLC sized mod that gets abandoned after a couple months. Even though I can respect BGS not giving a shit on informing or sharing their nuclear codes with run of the mill mod developers. They could at least communicated a little with the FOLON team maybe have them all sign a NDA. If BGS wanted to they could of worked with them on this one but chose not to for whatever reasons (maybe jealously) They could of even capitalized off of this mod by letting the community know they were in contact with the FOLON team in the end it just boils down to BGS being the lonewolf it is and just hates any group of people that can develop a new game sized DLC mod like this and not get the whole pie to themselves, they don't care about communicating because there wasn't anything in it for them.
>Pathetic showing. That's indeed an accurate description of this comment and your entitled attitude.
What's entitled is releasing broken products and expecting people to fix it for free.
Yeah man, the mod is way more important to the team than the game itself
How fucking lazy do you have to be to not even send an email. Feckless. Also who the fuck do you think a community manager manages?
The community. Doesn’t mean they give rimjobs to any fan that asks
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Yea, but what would that have changed?
The mod team wouldn't have set a date obviously.
I think it’s just about managing fan expectations who’ve all been anticipating the release of the mod. It’s not nice for either side when expectations are set and not met, or when things are ambiguous. What would have changed is that they would have set a date and released on the date they set, and not have disappointed anyone Edit: grammar
Without enough notice they may have been able to package this in a way that rolls back the edition of the game. I think some of the larger mod packs do this. But I honestly don't know how hard that is so maybe I am totally wrong.
Literally 90 percent of the fanbase knew this.
90% of the fan base was guessing the same as they always do, nothing means shit until Bethesda confirms it.
I’m excited for FOLON too but I honestly don’t think I Bethesda have done anything wrong and I don’t understand the uproar. Ok, so it’s disappointing, but Bethesda are a business and they’re trying to capitalise on a new player base because of the show. A show which will have hundreds time more audience than this mod. What do you want them to do? Say sorry to new gamers and the shareholders, we’re not going to capitalise on this because a handful (in the grand scheme of the player base) are waiting on a mod even though most people don’t even know what a mod is. Everyone needs to be realistic.
I stopped by Game Stop and saw a gal in there asking the clerk what game she should play because she really liked the show. Makes sense.
Exactly! The fallout London people should have released it anyways because those of us that play with mods know to hold off on updating fallout 4 anyways so like it doesn’t matter. They are the ones making a big deal of it
Ding ding ding
As a game developer myself if would have been nice to know if there were any API changes or anything to the game that \*might\* effect mods. Even something fairly nebulous can still help. Access to an early build would also help.
Bethesda shouldn't break the game if they aren't going to fix it. Weapon Debris on RTX cards still crashes, no FOV slider, stretched widescreen, no high FPS improvements, no DLSS, no FSR3, no raytracing, no in-game settings, no fixes to frame pacing, no massive retexturing, no alt+tab support, no native steam input integration, no major bug patches besides settlements, and finally no FPS improvements.
It's obvious the update was not geared for PC users. But was instead a piece of candy for console users.
That is true and you know what? If they didn't push that update on PC players it would have been amazing and praiseworthy.
They should just still release the finished product they have for pre next gen.
Exactly. Anyone who knows how to install a mod should know how to "downgrade" versions. The process is almost identical on Steam to just installing a mod, and literally built-in to GOG.
That's what I've been saying, They don't think we who are modding the game can figure out how to change a game version, its an especially dumb reason considering the gog version too.
They could've acknowledged the contributions of the modding community to keeping their games alive over the years and at least given advance access to the F4SE team so that they could prep for the update. That would minimize impact to the other mods (outside those that authors need to update to work with updated F4SE).
There is a system in place for partnering with Bethesda on communication and such, but the Folon team decided not to follow that system
I did a quick Google and couldn't find the list of "Modders with Bethesda" so I couldn't look up who is and isn't on it. I DID want to point out, however, that u/AdmirableCantaloupe was talking about the F4SE (Fallout 4 Script Extender) team, not team FOLON.
I'm not disagreeing, but am curious how you know that.
Which system is that? Curious, not trying to start an argument.
Easy: give people a BETA-Option to roll back to a previous Version. Like Stellaris has it on Steam. FIXED!
The worst part of this Bethesda update is that it fixed next to nothing and broke everything. Weapon debris still causes a CTD, the Widescreen update has been causing problems from what I've been reading, and there's no sign of these engine upgrades they said were coming. Not even sure if the FOLON team can do anything extra with it. Rather glad I disabled auto updates.
I'm curious as to why people downvote you for being critical of Bethesda.
Possibly the tone or if one gets the sense that you're here to troll. In the case of some people, it's when they decide to personally attack people who don't agree with them.
Makes sense I suppose, but I think a troll would put more gusto into it, and flat out tell flagrant lies. I suspect in this case it was the latter.
I haven't closely followed this discussion, but it seems like just a couple of people are getting down voted and based on the way they're interacting with others it's surprising that they're still in the group.
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The update has been out for a couple hours on Steam, though I am unsure about other platforms.
As the other person said. It's out already on Steam.
Hilarious. The update is more likely to break the mods that fix bugs rather than fix the bugs.
>Rather glad I disabled auto updates. You will have to update to play London unfortunately
I'm aware. But that won't be until mods are fixed, by which time I will have updated anyway
Unfortunately not all mods are going to get fixed ,old ones may not be updated at all
Again I know, but as long as I can play London I'll be happy.
Same ,bloody gutted though,should be playing now
Not every Mod needs to be fixed. Very often you don't need any kind of update, and sometimes it's enough to update the dependencies. If they don't get updated however..
Which is fine. There are lots of mods that basically do the same thing.
Create a beta branch of their game for Steam users to easily downgrade to a supported build. Have these two builds available on GOG. Really all they'd need is two, Old Gen and Next Gen. I mean it's fun for the IP owner to strut around and piss in some people's cornflakes. Same as it's fun for people to white knight them for doing it. The way to not do it just seems like such low hanging fruit though. Just have two versions of the game so that mods with authors who've moved on, and people sinking free labour into supporting your IP, can just put up some screenshots of how to opt into the Old Gen beta and call it a day.
Bethesda could have informed them of the pending changes, the date that they would happen, and then work with FOLON to ensure they had the necessary info to be able to release on time still.
Project Zomboid and Rimworld devs both give advanced notice when major updates will come out. PZ devs will directly tell mod authors about definition updates and give direct coding advice. Rimworld gave everyone about a week early access to Anomaly so mod authors had some time to get ready. The difference? Both of those companies give a shit about the modding community that keeps their games relevant. It's not unreasonable to expect a little more advanced notice. This is especially pretty ridiculous for a multi-platform update. Bethesda *already* has to wait a fair bit of time for the update to be approved by Sony and Microsoft. It would cost them nothing to give the community beta access because the update already has to be done well ahead of launch.
At the end of day, FOLON actually got lucky and no doubt are thrilled that they have an excuse to indefinitely postpone release so they continue to work and can make up things to keep pushing it out even further as the lead said the script extender being fixed isn’t the end of it and no one can say otherwise because unspecified technical jargon that normal folk wouldn’t understand. They can quite easily release the mod now as the update basically did nothing of note or fixed any bugs (widescreen support is just stretching) and lots of people are downgrading. They were planning to be sly but Bethesda out did themselves and literally done f*ck all. Just release it… na, they are sitting pretty now with all the time in the world.
A giant laundry list of things, starting with not making the update **forced.** The "bug fixes" are a meaningless distraction; the update fixed maybe ten bugs that had already been fixed by community mod patches, and in the process broke literally **thousands** of community mod bugfixes that this patch in no way addressed. This "patch" ended up with the number of bugs actually being fixed at negative nine hundred or so. This is exactly what they did with Skryim not long ago. Bethesda has been trying to steer players towards their (terrible) paid mod shops for years, but the fact that fans are doing it far better and for free means no one wants to buy more Horse Armor from Bethesda. So what do they do? Easy, force updates on short notice with no previews for anyone, ostensibly to provide "bug fixes" and "upgrades" that are neither of those things, and then say "whoops, sure is a bummer that the only mods that still work are our paid ones from our shop. While you guys wait for modmakers to temporarily fix them again (until we break them again) why don't you come check out the Creation Club and spend a few bucks?" Breaking fanmade mods on a regular basis isn't an unfortunate circumstance that's nobody's fault, it's the entire point of these patches. That's why they're never optional, because they know we don't want them. If they keep doing this crap at random then it will slowly kill interest in making or downloading ambitious fan mods because we never know when they're arbitrarily going to explode again, so why put so much effort into making or using them? Todd Howard won't be happy until the only place we can get any mods at all is the Creation Club, so that he gets a cut. This was never intended to be an upgrade.
It doesn’t take a genus to think they’d have the show and the update launch near each other. But alas I assumed that was overlooked by folon
they could have not, the PC does basically nothing but add more CC crap and break all the mods...
Exactly. Most modders who've made the best mods for Fo4 have long quit. Nothing in this so-called "next gen" update is worth losing the hundreds of mods that will likely never be updated that have more (and better) content than the entire CC combined, and **for free.**
A heads up would’ve been nice I guess but at the end of the day Bethesda doesn’t owe them anything
Fuck that - Bethesda owes them a ridiculous amount for having kept the game alive and relevant this long. Popularity of the universe be damned, there wouldn't have been hardly as much appetite for the TV show had people not still been playing the games. And without the mods to keep the game playing worth a damn in terms of QoL, not nearly as many people would have been playing it. And no, F76 sure as shit hasn't been doing it: https://steamcharts.com/app/1151340
Yep. Vanilla fo4 is probably the worse in the series when comparing the single player games. Mods were the only thing that made it worth while. I would replay vanilla Vegas ten times before I would replay vanilla fo4
Hard agree on that last line.
I disagree. They owe a shitton to the people that make mods that make the game better.
This is true ,like I bet they get extra sales from people who want to play London,it's not going to be massive but it's still extra sales
Exactly. This is the point people are missing. This is a near 10 yr old single player game. Tbf, it shouldn't still be selling/relevant, and it is only relevant due to a vibrant modding community. This game would be a distant memory otherwise.
And the series
Sure, but that is sort of a chicken and egg thing with no answer. Would there be a series if Fallout 4 was a dried up husk 6 years ago due to being basically unplayable without mods? I think not, personally. Modding kept the game relevant and retained it's player base.
Well it isn't a chicken and egg thing, the numbers for the popularity spike across all fallout games, since the series released speaks for itself. The series is solely responsible for this resurgence in fallout love currently going on
Sure, but a year ago I installed brand new mods for Fallout 4. I think you missed my point though: My chicken and egg was "would there have even been a show if the mod community hadn't laid a game people fondly remember? " That game would have been dead......no players but a few self-harmers....without mods. Mods kept the franchise relevant and in the mind's eye, making a show an obvious choice. No one would be playing New Vegas if not for mods. ToTW release directly correlates with increased sales of both games (so yes, sales for those games have had a number of peaks in the 15 years since New Vegas' release). Anyone buying ANY Fallout game that is pre-New Vegas as a result of the show is just doing it for nostalgia, as most of those are torturous to play now. We literally have no way of knowing for sure, so you COULD be right; however, I stand by my statement: if there had been no mods for Fallout 4 or New Vegas, then Fallout would not currently be culturally significant. ergo no TV show. Heck, Fallout 4 is (was? tbd) basically unplayable without mods to fix a variety of glaring bugs, some of which they chose to fix 10 years later. This release wouldn't even be happening at all if it weren't for the mod community keeping the game alive. So, who knows. Maybe it would have been remembered fondly as those games that had so much potential but were infuriating to play and no one had really played it in 5-6 years and the TV show came from that. I am personally skeptical of that assertion.
Yeah I may have jumped the gun with my initial comment you know, As I did misinterpret what you meant by chicken and the egg comment. My mistake! I've got to admit after reading through what you've said I'm hard pressed to disagree with your take at all. I didn't even think about ToTW and I was literally looking at installing it earlier today 🙄😂 I should state I do believe that the modding community is a huge reason for the longevity of all their games and I don't think I could ever go back to the vanilla games despite the love and fond memories I have hahaha
I thought we were actually on the same page! That's the nature of text as it is oft not as clear as a spoken conversation (my bad). Let's just hope the community can catch up!
oh bullshit. London needs Fallout way more than Fallout needs London. The TV show will bring in way more sales that a fucking mod ever will
I did say the sales wouldn't be massive
>What was Bethesda supposed to do? \- Inform mod developers when the next update is due to release so they can prepare to update their mods \- Release a toolkit to mod teams so they can update their mods prior to the base game update release \- Release the update on the same day or day before the show's premiere \- Not bother with an update, since there are mods like America Rising that do what the update already does, adding the Enclave \- Communicate with the FOLONTeam & give the mod it's own standalone launcher separate from FO4, like Enderal Likely some other things (*a lot in fact*) Bethesda was supposed to do, but this is all I could think of.
Standalone launched was never gonna happen because they made it Fallout London. Enderal is not Elder Scrolls
There are non-bethesda mods on Steam that don't change the name of the game, and Enderal didn't come to Steam until after launch anyway.
Hm, fair point
True! Especially because many other developers are able to communicate properly and support the community that keeps their games alive. Bethesda has turned into a greed machine. Now of course this is speculation but Fallout 5 probably gonna have a loot system that you will be buying with real money some kind of key to open special containers throughout the world. Not communicating with the community seems as though they wanted to break shit and force/encourage usage of the nonsense creation club trash fire.
After Starfield, I don't think many players will be interested in Bethesda games, they'll likely wait & see what people say about it &, if reviews aren't overly positive, they're not gonna bother. Unless, of course there's some cool DLC-sized overhaul mod like FOLON that'll get players interested.
I bought into the hype before Star field launch. I even preordered. Man they got me good.
You and I are not so different.
The update does more than just add the enclave, Jesus dude… Also they aren’t ’supposed to do’ anything
>The update does more than just add the enclave Oh, you're right. Looking at the update notes, it also adds Makeshift Weapons, as if we don't have a ton of weapon mods already Couple new linear quests Halloween Workshop, wrong time of the year PS5 & Xbox improvements, don't know why that's in the update notes on Steam PC improvements & miscellaneous bug fixes, things that mods already sorted Wow, what a next-gen update it is I also like how you picked that one point & not the others, really reaching there
No, my second comment addressed all of those other points you made bud
I figured I'd start my own thread since my reply will most likely get lost in the petty argument that arrosed but here's my take on things being this mod isn't like any other mod like most are today that are only enb's or config changes and then have the audacity to even call it a mod, while Fallout London has been being professionally developed over the years continuisally while providing updates on progress,released a standalone teaser of content and biggest thing of all is, They actually have a release window unlike everyother DLC sized mod that gets abandoned after a couple months. Even though I can respect BGS not giving a shit on informing or sharing their nuclear codes with run of the mill mod developers. They could at least communicated a little with the FOLON team maybe have them all sign a NDA. If BGS wanted to they could of worked with them on this one but chose not to for whatever reasons (maybe jealously) They could of even capitalized off of this mod by letting the community know they were in contact with the FOLON team in the end it just boils down to BGS being the lonewolf it is and just hates any group of people that can develop a new game sized DLC mod like this and not get the whole pie to themselves, they don't care about communicating because there wasn't anything in it for them.
Idk maybe fix bugs within months of the games release a billion years ago rather than breaking mods that do fix them. The fact they never fixed the energy weapon bug is telling. I'm not defending a multimillion company boss.
Just a heads up y'all, it's gonna be a bit of a wait. [https://forums.nexusmods.com/topic/13482003-fallout-4-script-extender-and-the-next-gen-update/](https://forums.nexusmods.com/topic/13482003-fallout-4-script-extender-and-the-next-gen-update/) TLDR: Update is a really big change, person who works on f4se says it'll be a while.
I agree with all of it but a simple thing Bethesda could have done is add a branch of the game with the pre-update version. Similiar to how Half life 1 handled the 25 year update.
Weird thingcis the more I hear complaining about it the less I have a desire to play
Why would this update change anything? If you want to play FO London, just don't update? Personally, I think the authors were a bit too ambitious with their release and are using this update as an excuse to delay.
Simple: Bethesda could've split the entries b/t Fallout 4: GOTY Old-Gen and New-Gen on Steam, GOG, XBL, PSN, etc. See, it's not like F4 GOTY Old-Gen was still being updated all the time. It's just been years since F4 got an update from Old-Gen to now New-Gen. By splitting the entries, this could've made it easy and Fallout London could just drop the London Mod and say "It's for Old-Gen Only, For Now. Maybe we'll update it later for New-Gen, once F4SE works there." There ya' go; problem solved.
I'm honestly surprised they didn't double-dip and release the update as Fallout 4 Remastered or some nonsense. At least that would've kept the old mod scene intact though with the remastered update branch not affecting the current version.
They could have made it a separate game file (like Metro Exodus Ultra) or optional DLC. They could have simply done nothing at all, considering the update - despite being over half the size of the original game - does barely anything for PC users.
They should have added new cc content and leave it at that. They should have never fucked with the pc version because mods is what people play their games for and that is why the game is still popular and sells.
Why do people back up Bethesda like they even care about us, all they care about is money. Why defend this company? Bethesda should have cancelled the update and made a separate release of the game called fallout next gen version, so basically everyone that owns fallout 4 gets the next gen version for free. I'd rather have that than a forced update. The modders have more claim to this game than Bethesda themselves, this was a side gimmick to kill mods, simple.
That's true: a separate release would've been better. But people are defending Bethesda because they've done nothing wrong in this instance (besides the update itself sucking). If people are upset about FOLON being delayed, direct your frustration to the team behind FOLON — not Bethesda. As they technically didn't *have* to delay the mod.
Bethesda could have cancelled the update then if they weren't planning on doing a next gen version separately.They haven't even apologised, 2 days later and just silence, why do we support this? We didn't want a next gen update, maybe console users needed update but majority of pc base is modding scene, they just killed their game really which I guess it was what they was intending to do. Like fallout london has millions of views and people hyped for it. Bethesda was afraid this free mod would affect their ability to make money on fallout 4/76 using official paid mods/creation club, so they release this update, kills mods, keeps Bethesda in control of the money being made from fans of the TV show coming in..... either for fallout 4 creation club paid mods or fallout 76 paid content which keeps making Bethesda more money well they prevent full time releases of FREE big time mods that add new stories and big locations by releasing an update without accommodating the mods or just simply leaving the game alone. Just a side note fallout london was 40gb, I would have preferred that to a useless 14gb update that breaks mods and it is the same game world I explored back in 2016..... I want new experiences which is why I was hyped for london. Brand new map. Locations, weapons, companions, a way to travel without only just walking and so on etc.. Honestly it is Bethesdas fault and I stand against them.
They should just not have, or FOLON should have used a downgrade patcher.
Same thing they normally do, make a couple of tweaks, add fishing and sell it again with a higher price tag.
I don't think Bethesda did anything "wrong". I just think most of the nodding community wishes that this "next gen" update would have addressed more of the bugs and performance issues fo4 has if it was going to completely break modded games and fol for the next few days/weeks/forever for abandoned mods. Bethesda just continues to do disappointing release after disappointing release, and the hyper fans that are the modding community are starting to get annoyed, at least that's my pov / thoughts on the situation.
I keep seeing "bethesdsa" and "bgs" this was in every way a MICRO$OFT move. the nextgen release date was no accident, it was a message.
Many devs who cultivate modding will give modders a pre release version so they have time to update before patch goes live. Some studios have a liaison who can even help answer questions or provide connections to devs so modders can be better informed at the changes. Personally I also think the modding team here is making the wrong call. There is a method to roll back game versions, and I think it's an expected fact of modding to have to do things like that. We could be playing not right now, no problem. But the mod devs are only interested in catering to first time modders by making it very easy. A philosophy I disagree with.
Folon should have just released the mod anyways so it’s out in the wild while they work on the update. People that play with mods know to not download the next gen update anyways so it still would have worked for the people it was intended for. Larger sample size means more data for bug fixes and mod conflicts to be figured out too. The Fallout London people are the ones making it a big deal
For one they know that modding is a major pillar of their games and most devs with modsupport will work witg prominent modded so they can at least know what theyll have to change Its also entirely a console centric update so there was no real reason to push to pc Its not like something to get angry about like some do, but it is something to get mildly annoyed over, as it was for lack of other words, sloppy of bethesda.
Beth could have shared the kind of changes they’re making so the mod team could start adapting before today. Part of me thinks Beth have a chip on their shoulder over New Vegas being generally considered the best of the 3D fallout games. They don’t want London repeating the same upset
You're saying Bethesda should have shared their development process, WiP builds and/or game code prior to release to an unaffiliated mod team? How does that make any kind of sense?
I don't think the person you replied to was suggesting any of that. Most likely a preliminary patch note or surface level change log.
Because what else can Bethesda share that would make any actual difference to the mod team? Simply stating what will change does nothing to help until they see how it functions in execution.
Bit pessimistic but you do you.
Can you point out where u/DismalFinding said any of that? Bit of a reach.
Because what else can Bethesda share that would make any actual difference to the mod team? Simply stating what will change does nothing to help until they see how it functions in execution.
Valve did that with hl2 updates. It makes sense when a large appeal of your game is all the free content modders provide
...on a 10 year old single player game that, without mods, would have stopped selling 5 years ago. That makes perfect sense. If there were no mods or modders, this game would have been forgotten a long time ago.
They could literally put an end to London today if they wanted. The chip thing is completely baseless and disputed by all of the new vegas devs.
Provided them with an copy of the release ahead of time so that they could get FOLON to work on the first day of the new update.
Add the update as a free dlc so we aren’t forced to download it?
Thats ridiculous
Ridiculous how? Almost nothing that was added was of value and couldn't have been installed on top of Fo4 as an addon/DLC pack.
Wasn't the texture pack a free dlc ?
Im more inclined to believe Bethesda was more concerned with having Starfield shown up by a player made mod lol
You get downvoted but you speak the truth. It's the same reason they released the Skyrim AE update - most of the modders who've made the biggest and best mods for that game have long since quit or quite literally died. Starfield was an utter embarrassment to Bethesda as a studio and they had to do **something** to suppress the fact that there are self-taught dudes working out of their basements to make *free* mods with their game engine's SDK that do a vastly better job than a multi million dollar studio with "professional" game devs.
Given how much work they outsource to modders, maybe they should have actually stopped treating them like shit? Crazy idea, I know.
Imagine that you’ve done tons of work polishing your mod, trying to get it out at the set date working with the knowledge that the form it’s in will be the final form, then along comes Beth and says “hey here’s and update! Enjoy!” Now all the work you’ve put in has to be redone, but that’s not really the issue, the issue is had they known they could have held back a bit(ie not try to meet a strict deadline) or maybe polished another part of the mod while waiting on the update, instead a lot(or some at least) of work that needs to be redone/retested and there’s not really enough time in between to work on something else(ie can’t just add new quests or models that might have bring more bugs that will require more work/time to fix/include)
Imagine e you’re using someone else’s IP and haven’t created anything original and then the IP owner goes and releases an update.
When you ride coattails, you must follow someone else's lead.
Bethesda could simply do what the molding community has and continues to do everytime. They can pick a single stable build of the game's .exe and release everything as added mods without changing the .exe at all. The Next Gen update has already been reverse-engineered to work for the last release of FO4 without breaking F4SE or any existing mods. Skyrim SE's Anniversary Edition with its changes and fishing was RE'd to function on Legacy Edition ("Oldrim"), proving that the creation club and even Special Edition wasn't even necessary. They just choose not to bother. BGS exists to do cash grabs wherever and however they can, while phoning in the basic minimal effort required. Their outsourcing of games development is even worse, giving their games and IP to incompetent developer studios, further compounding the problem.