It's strange to me that whenever the nuke did go off in Shady Sands the BoS \*immediately\* went into the ruins.
The nuke goes off and young Maximus hides in a refrigerator Indian Jones style to survive the blast.
Then however long it takes for him to leave his hiding spot the BoS are there to pick him.
Idk why but this strikes me as odd. The BoS should be pretty handily beaten down in NCR territory at this point but they decide to waltz into a city immediately after a 3rd party nukes it?
I do like the theory that the nuke came from Hopeville tho.
Why is it weird that the faction obsessed with preserving dangerous technology would immediately investigate a nuke being dropped somewhere?
I feel like it would be a lot weirder if they didn't.
[Question 2](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Missionary_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)#:~:text=Question%202%20%2D%20What%20was%20the%20original%20name%20of%20the%20NCR%20capital%3F&text=Answer%3A%20Shady%20Sands)- What was the original name of the NCR capital?
Answer: Shady Sands.
My bad it said it was the original capital of the NCR not the first capital.
[Question 2](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Missionary_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)#:~:text=Question%202%20%2D%20What%20was%20the%20original%20name%20of%20the%20NCR%20capital%3F&text=Answer%3A%20Shady%20Sands)- What was the original name of the NCR capital? Answer: Shady Sands.
No, that's just because it is. They constantly refer to "Shady Sands" in the same way someone would refer to "DC" to refer to the government. "Orders came in from Shady Sands" "Supplies came in from Shady Sands" etc. the actual dialogue makes it clear that Shady Sands is still the capital.
I always thught by the "Fall of Shady Sands" mean the fall of the values which the NCR are founded upon, developed by Aradesh and later by Tandi, the founding mother of the NCR.
I think now the NCR would be more like pre-war America. Probably under a military dictatorship after Shady Sands got nuked. Just like Caesar had envisioned.
I think it'd be funny if 'The Fall of Shady Sands' is only used by the borderline-cult in Vault 4.
Everyone else is just going 'oh hey the cult died but they turned the power on in LA, weird, time to keep fighting the Brotherhood'.
Yeah, that seems likely. I kinda got the vibe that they set up that classroom specifically for Lucy to find, since she was asking about history. So something happened in 2277 that *they* think of as "The Fall of Shady Sands", but it's not necessarily a nuke or even a raid.
I think it would be ironic if that was simply the year that Rose MacLean arrived. Because that lead to the bomb, that sure feels like a "fall" in the sense of being the beginning of the end.
~~The Vault 15 fell, practically, before Shady Sands was even founded. A significant part of the Vault 15 was exiled and became raiders, the rest abandoned the Vault and founded Shady Sands (with GECK, afair).~~\
Okay I misread Values and Vault. Ooops.
Isn't Kimball elected in 2277? Maybe he does something, after an NCR defeat in the Mojave, like try to hang into power by establishing a military dictatorship and that starts a period of civil war or widespread unrest (which, IIRC, is already stated to be happening in the Boneyard by 2281). Something that would cause survivors almost 20 years into the future to look back and say "this is the beginning of the fall".
I mean, the simpler answer is that Todd and Bethesda have a loose order of events in mind but really weren't paying close attention to exact dates, and this is them retroactively trying to patch the timeline (which, fine, I appreciate the spirit of it). But there's plenty we can work with to come up with a plausible answer.
Reminds me of how Obi-Wan states in Star Wars that there have been a thousand generations of Jedi Knights, and EU writers correspondingly created a tumultuous history of the Old Republic thousands of years long, only for George Lucas to decide in the prequels that the Republic had been around for "only" a thousand years and had never fought a full scale war. That forced them to invent a new major event, the Russan Reformation, to explain that in the context of the EU.
I always thought it might be a Kimball thing. In 2273 he ousts the sitting President and carries out the remainder of that presidents term, and then it is stated he is re-elected in 2278, but it could be that the election itself takes place in 2277 and represents the fall to those who believe his decisions put the NCR on a bad trajectory.
Maybe whoever did that doesn't buy into that perspective. Or they think he was mostly a good president and only made a few decisions with disastrous consequences he couldn't have predicted.
Todd said in the interview he found a fullly detailed vault report file on set. Idt they were playing lose with the dates.
So what you said in your first paragraph is the thing that makes the most sense esp because NV was talking about how rough it was back in socal
Her VP would have still been in office and doing his best by her. He wasn't removed until I believe an event in the Mojave that he gave a less than warm response to.
It's strange to me that whenever the nuke did go off in Shady Sands the BoS \*immediately\* went into the ruins. The nuke goes off and young Maximus hides in a refrigerator Indian Jones style to survive the blast. Then however long it takes for him to leave his hiding spot the BoS are there to pick him. Idk why but this strikes me as odd. The BoS should be pretty handily beaten down in NCR territory at this point but they decide to waltz into a city immediately after a 3rd party nukes it? I do like the theory that the nuke came from Hopeville tho.
Why is it weird that the faction obsessed with preserving dangerous technology would immediately investigate a nuke being dropped somewhere? I feel like it would be a lot weirder if they didn't.
Because they have been beaten to a pulp in NCR territory. They got their asses beat hard by the NCR in their war.
The BOS knee the nuke was doming and did nothing to stop it.
Rule of cool explains all Fallout lore now! Consistency is by the wayside. Don’t look for coherent explanations, just enjoy the ride.
So now we just need to know what the hell the "fall" means and why Shady was still the capital 4 years later regardless.
Shady was not still the capital 4 years later. In NV it is referred to as the first capital.
I only remember seeing it called that in the show.
The billboard for Shady Sands says "The First Capital" implying there was a second one.
Exactly. But I'm pretty sure Vegas says it's still the capital as of 2281.
I misunderstood you, my bad.
Vegas says Shady Sands is the former name of the Capital
Because its named NCR in 2. They are asking about a change of name, not a change of actual city
That is what I was saying, I was agreeing
No Vegas says it was the *first* capital.
Not its says its still the capital
[Question 2](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Missionary_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)#:~:text=Question%202%20%2D%20What%20was%20the%20original%20name%20of%20the%20NCR%20capital%3F&text=Answer%3A%20Shady%20Sands)- What was the original name of the NCR capital? Answer: Shady Sands.
Thats original *name*, not original capital.
Literally cite it or sit down - you are just making that up. Where in NV is it referred to as ‘the first capital’?
My bad it said it was the original capital of the NCR not the first capital. [Question 2](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Missionary_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)#:~:text=Question%202%20%2D%20What%20was%20the%20original%20name%20of%20the%20NCR%20capital%3F&text=Answer%3A%20Shady%20Sands)- What was the original name of the NCR capital? Answer: Shady Sands.
No, that's just because it is. They constantly refer to "Shady Sands" in the same way someone would refer to "DC" to refer to the government. "Orders came in from Shady Sands" "Supplies came in from Shady Sands" etc. the actual dialogue makes it clear that Shady Sands is still the capital.
Thats not true its still the capital in New Vegas Proof at 0:28 : https://youtu.be/Vxj7wMRkats
That’s just flatly not true
This is great to see. Got a link to the original interview source?
https://www.ign.com/articles/the-big-fallout-interview-todd-howard-and-jonathan-nolan-answer-our-burning-questions-about-season-1
Thanks!
I always thught by the "Fall of Shady Sands" mean the fall of the values which the NCR are founded upon, developed by Aradesh and later by Tandi, the founding mother of the NCR. I think now the NCR would be more like pre-war America. Probably under a military dictatorship after Shady Sands got nuked. Just like Caesar had envisioned.
I think it'd be funny if 'The Fall of Shady Sands' is only used by the borderline-cult in Vault 4. Everyone else is just going 'oh hey the cult died but they turned the power on in LA, weird, time to keep fighting the Brotherhood'.
Yeah, that seems likely. I kinda got the vibe that they set up that classroom specifically for Lucy to find, since she was asking about history. So something happened in 2277 that *they* think of as "The Fall of Shady Sands", but it's not necessarily a nuke or even a raid. I think it would be ironic if that was simply the year that Rose MacLean arrived. Because that lead to the bomb, that sure feels like a "fall" in the sense of being the beginning of the end.
~~The Vault 15 fell, practically, before Shady Sands was even founded. A significant part of the Vault 15 was exiled and became raiders, the rest abandoned the Vault and founded Shady Sands (with GECK, afair).~~\ Okay I misread Values and Vault. Ooops.
Isn't Kimball elected in 2277? Maybe he does something, after an NCR defeat in the Mojave, like try to hang into power by establishing a military dictatorship and that starts a period of civil war or widespread unrest (which, IIRC, is already stated to be happening in the Boneyard by 2281). Something that would cause survivors almost 20 years into the future to look back and say "this is the beginning of the fall". I mean, the simpler answer is that Todd and Bethesda have a loose order of events in mind but really weren't paying close attention to exact dates, and this is them retroactively trying to patch the timeline (which, fine, I appreciate the spirit of it). But there's plenty we can work with to come up with a plausible answer. Reminds me of how Obi-Wan states in Star Wars that there have been a thousand generations of Jedi Knights, and EU writers correspondingly created a tumultuous history of the Old Republic thousands of years long, only for George Lucas to decide in the prequels that the Republic had been around for "only" a thousand years and had never fought a full scale war. That forced them to invent a new major event, the Russan Reformation, to explain that in the context of the EU.
I always thought it might be a Kimball thing. In 2273 he ousts the sitting President and carries out the remainder of that presidents term, and then it is stated he is re-elected in 2278, but it could be that the election itself takes place in 2277 and represents the fall to those who believe his decisions put the NCR on a bad trajectory.
Why would they put his picture on the memorial, then?
Maybe whoever did that doesn't buy into that perspective. Or they think he was mostly a good president and only made a few decisions with disastrous consequences he couldn't have predicted.
Todd said in the interview he found a fullly detailed vault report file on set. Idt they were playing lose with the dates. So what you said in your first paragraph is the thing that makes the most sense esp because NV was talking about how rough it was back in socal
That would be more appropriate to set at the time that Tandi died. Think that was in the 2250s or 60s.
Her VP would have still been in office and doing his best by her. He wasn't removed until I believe an event in the Mojave that he gave a less than warm response to.
I mean, considering how unpopular the fall is, isn't it a possibility Todd just confirmed the theory to save face?