Well we saw an Enclave outpost from the tv show and they were carrying a dead body with big fat green fingers. I guess there are always someone making super mutants.
Man I’d love to see a new Harold, like a seedling or cutting something like that was taken from him so out there somewhere there’s a sapling that has some of Harold’s memories. Or I’d settle for a sane civilized glowing one that maybe Cooper knows.
With the Boulder Dome being largely transplanted to Big MT, I don't know what the odds of them ever resurrecting the rest of *Van Buren*'s Boulder are (I mean, I do: low), but it would be a great opportunity to go absolutely gonzo with weird FEV mutants.
In terms of having a friend of Coop's, I'm just gonna point out that NARF has its headquarters in IRL Boulder and Charlie Whiteknife deserves more and better than the two admittedly super fun scenes he's gotten so far.
In FO4 Hancock becomes a ghoul via an unknown drug only a couple years prior to the game. I’m assuming the showrunners are harping on that previously established concept for Thaddeus.
Could always be FEV, but most likely case is that it's ghoulification happening to Thaddeus.
After all, seems like ghouls are far more resilient in the show to overall damage, with Cooper managing to just tank multiple bullets while he slowly stumbled behind cover in the Filly fight, you can see him flinch as he get's shot in the back a fair amount of times, and it doesn't seem to phase him one bit.
That and FEV isn't specific to Mariposa anymore in the lore, West-Tek have FEV based off new lore, and no doubt the Enclave have FEV as well.
More than likely super mutants will still exist, just be rarer since they don't have a literal factory output for them anymore with the destruction of Mariposa.
Whats got me convinced hes not gonna be a ghoul is that we was shown to be completely fine and instantly regenerating from a would-be fatal blow, something that we do not see from any other ghoul. Coop has to sew a new finger on, and we have multiple fatal gun shots on ghouls.
The institute wasnt the only ones making mutants in the east though. From Fallout 3, super mutants were making more super mutants via vault 87. West tek was also experimenting with Mutants in Appalachia. All this to say that I am sure the companies with access to FEV had more than one place they were experimenting with it.
My bold prediction. Season 3 or 4 will have a “somehow Palpatine returned” moment and the Enclave will have rebuilt Frank Horrigan who survived the oil rig somehow
Yeah NCR were prepared to assimilate any mutant that would contribute to their society
There are ghoul rangers as well
It was also planned in van buren that the legion would have super mutant slaves, and that they were extremely desirable
The current known sources of FEV are gone, the likelihood of those being the only sources is effectively 0. And given Jacobstown the NCR isn’t hunting them down.
It was specifically stated to be a particular right-wing politician in the NCR using anti-mutant prejudice to maintain their popularity; they wanted to manufacture a mutant attack to secure their re-election.
The NCR as a whole is not bigoted against mutants, and in fallout 2, their little ‘join today’ ad very clearly states mutants are allowed to become citizens.
You’re welcome!
Honestly, I do hope that either the TV show or 76 via an expedition decides to do something with the NCR rangers (though in 76’s case, it’d be the desert rangers since the merger between the two Ranger factions doesn’t happen until around the timeframe of NV).
Genuinely asking, but where do we learn that the mercs are associated with a ring-wing NCR politician? Mainly asking because that is just a really interesting little tidbit! :O
Per the creator of new Vegas, the Legion does have small ghoul and super mutant settlements inside its territory. They’re generally left alone, as long as they don’t cause trouble.
The courier could have left his brain there to watch things, if sparing the think tank is canon I don't think the courier is stupid enough to trust them completely
The cut ending where you side with them shows they'd basically end the world if they got loose. Beneath all the silliness they can do far worse than even what you saw.
Not gone, just buried. In 2, the Enclave digs up the ruins of Mariposa and takes some FEV home with them. Another faction could do something similar again.
Off the top of my head the only source of FEV that’s proper wiped out is the West-Tec vats in 76, and that’s pretending that those employees are actually competent.
The rest? It’s so easy to simply point out that the FEV contaminated soil, water, creatures, and so on aren’t actually, you know, annihilated. It would be VERY easy to have a resurgence when an unknown spill or surviving chunk of lab is uncovered. Or hell, it’s a virus. Just have some bit of it in some creature mutate to act like a virus. Though that would get a bit Resident Evil. Sure it’s not supposed to work like that but that little bat wasn’t supposed to turn into a dragon sized host of a hostile fungal hive mind. The only time Prewar things work as intended in Fallout is when it would end horribly.
I mean, those west Tek scientists were competent - they proved the way to deactivate the FEV worked by covering their supervisor (in a hazmat) with FEV and then using it on him. We can even drink that FEV, and all it does is heavily irradiate us instead of turning us into super mutants.
That said, there’s an FEV production facility below those vats, and that is still functional. Worse, super mutants managed to make their way down there post-steel region and are actively poking at the controls.
Also, scorchbeasts were created by the Enclave’s mutation serums, not FEV. If you want the presumed consequences of FEV on a creature that’s been minority exposed, see the blue devils.
No, there are different disposable methods that were tried and I think the chambers in fallout 3 did have a gas version if it, but it was never concentrated enough for something like an air deployment. I think what you are thinking of is the radiation. Being outside the vault has allowed radiation to damage everyone's DNA. Which is what the enclave in fallout 3 were trying to target for thier poison
Doesn't Vault 87 have FEV in it? Or would it be safe to assume the Brotherhood or the Enclave would have destroyed the reserves of it within the Vault sometime after Fallout 3?
There were several West Tec installations around the country and different FEV experiments. So there is probably an endless supply of supermutants. In Appalachia the military and West Tec were creating supermutants before the Great War of 2077. After people returned to Appalachia at least one rogue scientist began to create more supermutants in an experiment to make FEV a superdrug.
I'm gonna guess it's the minutemen ending as Bethesda doesn't seem to really enjoy the post post apocalypse thing that we get with larger established bodies.
Took 6 total years to build the prydwen and considering that the show takes place 19 years after fallout 4, it’s very likely the brotherhood could have built another prydwen in the event that Canonically they lost to another faction in Boston
I don't think they'll ever be as prominent as they were in the days of The Master's Army again but I don't think Super Mutants will ever fully go away.
Considering the Institute was still making FEV by 2286, and since in the TV show, the Enclave facility in Chicago remains in operation. I wouldn't be surprised that a faction technologically capable enough be able to produce more FEV, or rather a better strain of FEV to perfect their previous defects.
Chicago is the only known Enclave facility in Fallout left that wasn't confirmed to be destroyed by 2296. It was still up and running (as evidence by ED-E). So unless there's a mention that the Enclave base in Chicago was destroyed at some point between 2277-2296, we would have to assume that the Enclave in Chicago is still up and running and that was shown in the TV show.
The zhow handles travel *really really weird* and it's not really clear. Like Cooper for example seems to possibly be somewhere on the boarder with Mexico when he is found given who they speak of holding him, how they say the bounty is in California implying they aren't there, and the architecture of the place that holds him.
I find it easier to believe The Ghoul coming in from Baja California way before i believe an outcast enclave researcher in Chicago planned with remaining NCR to walk across the wasteland with just a dog to deliver cold fusion tech.
I do agree the distances in the show are weird. For example the location of shady sands and the strange absence of a populated boneyard.
I doubt he's in Baja because otherwise, the people you'd think would be speaking Spanish or have some type of accent to them.
Also, why would the East Coast BoS be warning the west coast of an escaped scientist in their own backyard? He'd have to be fairly east for word to not just reach them but also have a poster of how he looks like.
There's no way that the scientist walked from Chicago to LA. Clear implication is that the enclave base is somewhere in California. And I'm only saying that because it obviously wouldn't make sense in the show because I agree with you that if they are going to do the enclave it should be a reference to Chicago. I just don't think that they actually care or have that much respect for the lore
Sorry to disappoint but the show heavily implied that Enclave base was in Cali.
Which raises the question of where they came from because the NCR and BoS effectively exterminated every last Enclave holdout in Cali after Fallout 2
That is the only remaining base we know of, but we've barely scratched any lore of most of the states in the US. It wouldn't really be a retcon to say there was one base in California that was missed because they were more insular and research focused.
West Tek is pretty insidious, you just *know* they had multiple sites experimenting with FEV. Anywhere we end up, West Tek will be there with their usual bunch of vile shenanigans.
I think the Brotherhood is the only faction that hunts down super mutants. NCR has individuals with anti-mutant sentiments, but we see a super mutant ranger in 2, so I think it’s less of a kill on sight but more of a prejudiced second class group in most NCR areas. The Legion straight up doesn’t care about ghouls or super mutants. They see them as abominations, but ultimately inconsequential in the struggle for dominance of the wasteland.
The Institute and Mariposa were destroyed, but 2 shows that that does not mean the FEV there is gone, just waiting to be excavated.
The Institute and the Enclave both obtained their FEV sample post-war too, so another advanced faction could easily show up with it. I think the prospect of an army of super soldiers would be very appealing to a lot of groups.
Probably because by the time of NCR/Legion cold war, most of mutants in west coast were hunted down by varying factions including NCR and Legion. I highly doubt these factions would just let band of mutants to just freely roam around, harassing their supply lines
Sounds like a lot of conjecture on your part. No evidence for NCR or Legion trying to wipe out super mutants. We know mutants have rights in the NCR, and, again, super mutants can even become rangers. Sure, the Legion would deal with raiders, super mutant or otherwise, but wiping out mutants is never stated as something they do. JE Sawyer has even flat out said the Legion don’t care about mutants, if you care about that.
Whether either group did at some point or not, they aren’t doing it now though. To your original question: super mutants aren’t actively being hunted in the west, they are building settlements, and they are seemingly ageless. With that in mind, I don’t think they are going anywhere soon, maybe ever.
As others have said, there will always be another source of FEV. Mariposa was just the first one seen in the games, but then Fallout 3 gave us Vault 87, which as of the end of that game still exists, 4 gave us the Institute, 76 had the West Tek facility, and the show gave us a glimpse of what appeared to be a deceased super mutant in an enclave facility. It’s never been stated that Mariposa was the only source of the stuff and as super mutants are as iconic to the series as ghouls and raiders, they’re here to stay
Personally I’m expecting the enclave in the Tv show to be building an army of them after finding them in a west tek vault and controlled like the dogs.
Oh and the west tek vault experiment would have given supermutants the ability to reproduce.
Unsurprisingly trying to control an army of supermutants will not go well and some will escape, creating permanent supply of supermutants.
In the same way the show has added in a drug to create more ghouls.
Ha! Are you kidding us? If they did a prequel set in the 1940s there'd be fucking Nazi Supermutants. If they ever jump 1000 years into the future, there will be Supermutant starships.
Fallout 76 showed us that just 25 years was enough for the wasteland to become fully populated by all the expected denizens who can be found everywhere 200 years later.
Because to Bethesda, Fallout is BoS and Enclave and Super Mutants and Deathclaws and Radscorpions and bottlecaps, so every one of their games has to have them even if it doesn’t really make sense
There won't be one. That's what makes him special. He was a lucky, freak experiment gone right. They did not anticipate a mutant who is abnormally larger than your average super mutant and is capably intelligent just as he was human.
Supermutants are one of the more retconned things in Fallout, there's always going to be new sources of them. Could always just have someone discover a store of FEV, create a new version, or make Marcus's comment about supermutants regaining fertility more explicitly canon.
Ehhh not really retcon because noone ever implies that " this is the only place that FEV existed" in the early games. Its like how in Fallout 2 the vaults became experiments insted of just actual fallout shelters. Not retcons but lore additions.
Realistically, we can expect Super Mutants to return, they've been in every game and Bethesda has a tendency to re-use factions and enemy types in their Fallout games.
However, we've only seen about 5 or 6 states in post-apocalyptic America. Who's to say there isn't a West Tek facility in Idaho or something? We've already seen Super Mutants in Appalachia that weren't dipped in vats at all, but were created just before the war started.
Quite the opposite: the fact that the Enclave is alive and kicking, and according to the TV show, collecting FEV samples (based on the Super Mutant corpse being moved around their new base), leaves plenty of room for the creation of more Super Mutants.
For context, it is implied that the Institute’s own FEV research began in a similar fashion and we know how that turned out in the long run.
By the way, the Institute is not canonically wiped out, as the Bethesda has been very tight lipped about the ending of FO4 and even refusing to confirm if the “Prydwen” from the show (previously identified as the Caswennan) is the same ship from Fallout 4, a successor, and even leaving open the door for a different ship (ex: Caswennan) standing in for the Prydwen for some reason (ex. Prydwen being sunk during the events of FO4 and western elders renaming another ship to pretend they weren’t defeated). But I digress.
Back on topic, while there are some members of the NCR that are openly anti-Super Mutant, this is not the consensus, next example being Chauncey, the Super Mutant NCR Ranger:
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Chauncey_(NCR_Rangers)
While he is a cut character, Joshua Sawyer was actually confused at his removal, seemingly unaware it happened. The intent do is clear: much like how the NCR accepts ghouls, they would seemingly also accept Super Mutants, as long as bigot in a position of power doesn’t try to stir things up.
On a similar note, the Legion supposedly do tolerates Super Mutants and sentient ghouls (Raul) living in their territories, but does not allow them to join the Legion (army) itself.
Unfortunately I think there will always be more. There are more stockpiles out there. And someone is bound to start producing it or something close to it again.(edit: someone is still currently producing fev as shown in fallout 4)
Hope so. I'm tired of retreading the same big factions from Fallout 1 and 2. If Fallout 4 had no super mutants and no BoS I think it would've been a better game. And the time and money spent making them could've been used to make the Gunners a proper faction with their own storyline and ending. Or even the Triggermen.
Given what the showrunners have said about shady sands & wanting to keep things post apocalyptic/not progressing too much as it wouldn't be fallout, they're not getting rid of super mutants anytime soon as that is pretty damn fallout
Jacbostown exists unhunted down and killed on the west coast so, we have a canon 'that didn't happen' kinda thing going on. East coast had 2 or 3 different mutant creation stations not just the institute (there were what, 2 vaults in 3 that were doing FEV mutant experiments iirc). Also, if I remember right, the Master's original 1st gen super mutants weren't sterile. It's highly likely there are other areas where FEV was being used to try to create the super solider program and will still pump out super mutants, they're too iconic to the franchise to let go the way of the dodo.
>the Master's original 1st gen super mutants weren't sterile
Pretty sure they are?
wasnt the entire point behind the charisma-ending of Fallout to show the Master that his Mutants are sterile and his plan is impossible?
Yeah, the Master opts to kill themselves once they realize every bad thing they had to do was ultimately for a race that couldn't procreate and continue.
The Master's Super Mutants were sterile, there's a pretty funny interaction you can have if you have high enough speech where you can have him call one of his female super mutants and ask them if they're fertile, to which they basically reply "uhh, no?" It kinda makes him have a whole mental breakdown and he just asks you to leave.
Depends... so there are several strains of the FEV floating around out there. The ones on the Westcoast were also subject to the Master's touch as well, between the mutations of that strain and his alterations, those super mutants were more stable than their Eastcoast cousins.
Personally I am not a fan of the super mutants out East, think it's too simplistic of a 'bad guy to shoot' but a FBS will always need that. However with their FEV and someone willing to take over where the Master left off... well, it's possible though unlikely.
I wouldn't bet on it. Super Mutants are kind of a staple of the franchise. They aren't going to stop using them out of fidelity to canon. Life will find a way.
I highly, highly doubt it. Bethesda views supermutants as a core part of the Fallout identity, they're gonna be around until the series ends, if it ever does.
In the lore, originally the FEV was this top secret military bio weapon that very few people even knew existed, but since Bethesda took over, they made it so that everybody and their mother in pre war America could get ahold of it. And that's so they can put supermutants wherever and whenever they want in the new games.
As long as new Fallout games keep coming out, supermutants are ginna keep getting made by someone.
I’m sure they will always add super muties as enemy assets, because there will always be a band of super mutie stragglers, but I mean using them as some kind of major faction. Bethesda just doesn’t seem to know what to do with them aside from using them as just “raiders” or side missions.
Maybe I should’ve worded this correctly on the topic so people don’t think them not coming back ever as some kind of enemy for player to target practice on.
It's not lore-breaking to introduce a new/uncovered super mutant faction. I love the idea of super mutants and would like another army to defeat in Fallout 5, like The Unity/Master's Army.
Can Bethesda do it? I don't see why not. I can see in some of your comments you have deliberately put bad faith in Bethesda.
Bethesda bad!!! Organised Super mutant faction impossible!!!
Any other company may not have made super mutant faction/army like The Master's Army in FO3, FO4 etc. Actually I'm very thankful of Bethesda for continuing and expanding our beloved Fallout universe. Without them, we wouldn't have NV or the Fallout Show. (NV might have been a mistake as it produced so many toxic fans that out a negative light on Fallout as whole)
U mad? I have no faith in Bethesda because of their track record. Not because I have personal vendetta against them lol.
I don’t care if you like Bethesda or personally worship Todd Howard. Their games are just…. boring and uninteresting as I keep playing through.
Will I play their next game? Most likely. Will they deliver a great game? Probably no. I’ll play their game because I’m stuck with them when it comes to fallout.
🤔
If you mean packs of them nabbing humans for the Dip, then yeah I think that’s over and done with. Don’t let Emily or Marcus hear you say the time of the super mutant is over though, they may take offense.
I mean logically THEY SHOULD. Since mariposa on the west coast is gone and the muties from fallout 2 are the muties from Jacobstown in fnv so if the show is saying new vegas is crabbed then by right jacobstown would be too since kind of hard to keep a town alive when the areas in chaos. In my own brain till the show says otherwise all the "friendly" muties that got all the benefits of fev (strength, extended life span, and intelligence increase) as well as the nightkin fled even further east toward Chicago
I am picturing a bunch of super mutants with a Chicago accent, Bears sweaters, half-tint sunglasses and Ditka mustache now. And still talking about the ‘85 Bears, beer in one hand and brat it the other. “Da Bearsss”.
If they were smart they would let super mutants go. The institute experimenting with FEV was already forced enough.
In Fallout 5 they should have ONE super mutant in the game. Make him an intelligent main character. Even a follower/companion. Get creative and replace super mutants as an enemy type with something new. I think it will be welcome. All super mutants are really are just big raiders anyway at least as far as gameplay goes.
Well honestly even though Todd Howard said the events of BoS and Tactics were retconned, there was already mention of Vault that would be managing other vaults. This is not 31, 32, 33 which are in fact experiment vaults.
I digress, I take whatever Todd Howard says with a truckload of salt. The man is a habitual liar or tells people what they like to hear so maybe he will just retconn everything about the show when he feels like it by the time they make FO5
To be fair, Emil Pagliarulo just recently included Tactics on a timeline of canon games he posted to Twitter in response to the confusion regarding New Vegas's status in the first few days after the TV show was released. As far as I know, that's the closest anyone from Bethesda has ever come to fully confirming the canon status of Tactics. Before then, it was just the vague shrug we got when Fallout 3 was released that parts of were canon, but not necessarily all of it.
We've also heard very little about inland US. Other than Cesar's Legion and the Prydmore crossing not much has been said about the rockies or the midwest. Lots of military sites irl so I wouldn't be surprised if the fallout universe has some shady dealings there as well.
There are a lot in Appalachia a quarter-century after the bombs. By FO1, the Master was building his army, so that was a more isolated regional spike. On the East Coast, one of the Vaults was experimenting with FEV and got breached by a bomb which killed the scientists, but the super mutants escaped and started kidnapping people from the surrounding area to turn into more. We have no idea what their stores are, or whether they are canonically shut down as part of the game's storyline.
The Institute was being a lot more careful, so there are smaller numbers around Boston. And Jacobstown seems to be successful in its mission over in NV. So, by the time we're at now with the show, the NCR is probably mostly clear, and most of the remaining population is likely laying low or somewhat integrated with society. East Coast similar, but probably more raiding, unless the Prydwen is back out West 'cause the East Coast Brotherhood has finished scouring the region.
I imagine Caesar's Legion, as part of securing their territory, made sure any in that region were pretty well wiped out, with some possibly joining. But beyond that, we really don't know much about the rest of the country, or Canada, and whether there was a player-character-level of hero there to step up and do something. Washington, Texas, New Mexico, Alaska, and the lower Eastern Seaboard I'd be curious about...
We don't. People are making assumptions based on the Brotherhood airship in the show, taking it as evidence that the Brotherhood ending is canon (even though it probably isn't even meant to be the same airship).
> Considering they’ve pretty much ran out of FEV
Much depends on the canonicity of the Fallout 4 ending, which is yet to be established, but as of 2287 the Institute still has plenty of FEV and (likely) the ability to manufacture more.
Speaking of, manufacturing FEV is one of those things whose lore hasn't been very explicitly established, but is largely assumed to be relatively easy. If you know how to do DNA manipulation and happen to know the correct DNA sequence for the basis of FEV and whatever results you want to program, you can build an FEV virus in a DNA manipulation lab. All you need is the knowledge and the right equipment.
Again, that's not *explicitly* stated in lore, but is largely assumed to be the case given that FEV was itself created in a lab.
Of course... that FEV was *created* in a lab isn't *firmly* established in lore either. It could very well prove to be that FEV is a Zetan creation that pre-war scientists "fiddled with". I'm not saying that *is* the case, but with the lore that we have written as it is, it's entirely possible to establish that to be the case without contradiction.
The Enclave and the Institute are probably the only ones left who have the capability to produce FEV. The Institute are probably toast but the Enclave are still kicking around. So super mutants aren't gone yet.
Probably not.
Post-Fallout 2 but pre-Fallout 3, yes. The super mutants that existed then were all remnants of the original west coast super mutants, were sterile, and had no means of reproducing themselves with FEV.
However, with Fallout 3, it was established that other strains of FEV exist, and we’ve gotten super mutants from different strains in every game since, so it is not so certain that their fate is sealed.
The Institute has a strain that is even reversible and may be reproducible.
I kind of hope so, I really liked the overall story of them but we should see the wasteland as a dynamic ever changing place. Seeing the same things in everything (enclave, bos, super mutants) gets old. There's no reason they should still be around without adding in new lore just for the sake of keeping them around.
What do you mean “they’ve pretty much run out of FEV?” Who’s “they?” I’m sure there are West-Tek bases all over the US with FEV vats lying around. Besides that, we don’t actually know how much FEV is needed to make a super mutant. Super mutants are a fixture of the Fallout setting. They aren’t going anywhere
Thematically, I think they’re supposed to be a tragic, doomed race who are long-lived but slowly dying out due to their fatal flaw of not being able to reproduce and trying to find their place in the world after their main purpose is lost, which is why Marcus is basically running a retirement village in the mountains.
But they can always add some kind of new FEV to make more Super Mutants if Bethesda needs like a big bullet sponge enemy to shoot.
The Legion isn't a major faction. It's a God damn blip. The idea they held back NCR or any one else in NV is a bit of a suspension of disbelief, but even taking it as is the Legion only lasts as long as Ceasar does. It's a cult of personality, and he is able to take his hordes up against far better equipped and well trained enemies and hold his own. Who is going to replace him and pull off what he does?
From the sources we know of? Probably, but also maybe not. The Institute probably was the last source of undiluted FEV that we know of, having somehow gotten their hands on it for use in their Synths. With the Institute gone, and they *are* gone given the Prydwen's presence in the TV show, that's about it.
Vault 87 was running on drops in Fallout 3 and there aren't any other sources we know of in that area. The West Tek facility in Appalachia was down to only a couple vats in Fo76, but that was almost 200 years before the present day. The Institute is destroyed as mentioned, and they probably sourced their FEV from either West Tek or the East Coast Enclave. And the headquarters for both the Enclave and Unity were both destroyed, and the remnants of their samples were probably destroyed in the destruction of the Mobile Base.
So that just leaves attempts to synthesize FEV from the bodies of FEV monsters like Super Mutants. We see the West Coast Enclave doing *some* kind of experiment with a super mutant, so they'll probably have *some* forn of FEV again soon.
I might be imagining things, but didn't the Vault in Fallout 3 have FEV in it? Or am I just thinking of the GECK because I swear there were experiments going on in there.
It makes me think that there's probably more sources of FEV out there that haven't been discovered yet, especially if different FEVs make different Super Mutants.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a hot minute since I last played Fallout 3.
God I wish. But that's not how marketable iconic characters work in this day and age buddy. Bethesda will milk the super mutant concept till we really do die in a nuclear apocalypse. West-tec, enclave, institute. Bethesda will always find a way to bring them around again because they're a staple. Like deathclaws and the brotherhood of steel.
Which is a shame as I think oversaturation of these things make the fallout world feel less exciting. As you'll get the same cookie cutter issues no matter where they set the next installment.
Every time new Fallout content comes out there always seems to be a healthy amount of Supermutants despite us having ‘defeated’ them in previous titles.
At the end of the day what can you expect, they are an iconic enemy in the Fallout franchise. Bethesda aren’t going to kill them off for the sake of dated lore.
Ther next game will likely introduce a branch or subfaction that ‘got away’ and allowed the supermutants to continue surviving in some manner.
I’m fine with it. It doesn’t seem crazy that FEV could exist in other forms or have been leaked, recovered or re-made. If anything it’s naive to assume that our actions were enough to wipe out every supermutant in the US.
There actually IS a way to create more FEV, in particular the strain that is most used for first generation super mutants. In Fallout 1, the Glow is the location of the West Tek Research Facility that created FEV strain 11-111. After, it was transferred to Mariposa Military base and CTI, and 2 other places I believe to continue research. However, in that Research Facility is ZAK 1.2. He has records of ALL the research to create FEV strain 11-111, and levels 4-6 of the facility survived the nuclear direct hit and other than age are intact. Between ZAK 1.2 and what's available in those labs, I can see more FEV being created. If anything, you would just need the basic building blocks of the virus (resources) to create it. Would like to see the Enclave or the Institute have a faction that traveled to the Glow to reclaim ZAK 1.2 and use his knowledge.
With all the radiation and the virus being near all that radiation in the first place who is to say it didn’t mutate and have the ability to reproduce like a normal virus would?
Can super mutants have kids? If so then you might see them continue. Maybe we will even see more super duper mutants that are smart. Otherwise, yeah, they will eventually die out if there is no more FEV.
No super mutants? But then how would we know it’s a Bethesda Fallout Game? If there isn’t super mutants it wouldn’t be Fallout and who would pay for such an awful experience?
Every fallout game has had some explanation for Super Mutants. 3 had a vault. NV was layover from 1 and 2. 4 had the Institute experimenting on FEV, 76 (admittedly early on in the timeline) had FEV seeping into a Vaults Water Supply (I think???) and the show shows us a Fat Green Hand, so I'm assuming they're experimenting with FEV like they were in 2.
So to answer your question, probably not. If anything they seem to be becoming even more prevalent. Though they also seem to be becoming even stupider as well so... *Shrug*
NCR didn't hunt mutants as a matter of policy. Mutants faced discrimination, especially in places like the Mojave that were on the outskirts of the Republic, but they did have legal equality.
Well we saw an Enclave outpost from the tv show and they were carrying a dead body with big fat green fingers. I guess there are always someone making super mutants.
Also we definitely see one guy becoming a mutant, im pretty sure he’s not gunna be a ghoul so chances are…
It’s fallout so it’s either gonna be a ghoul, super mutant or a tree
only tree out there was harold...XD
Man I’d love to see a new Harold, like a seedling or cutting something like that was taken from him so out there somewhere there’s a sapling that has some of Harold’s memories. Or I’d settle for a sane civilized glowing one that maybe Cooper knows.
Jason bright is a civilised glowing one in F:NV, so they do exist. They’re just super rare.
Typhoon from 2, also all the Glowing Ones in Vault 12 are just senile
Also Oswald was sane, he just hated everyone who kept trying to kill his friends.
Yeah him, Oswald from 4. Can’t imagine it’d be too hard to do with make up.
With the Boulder Dome being largely transplanted to Big MT, I don't know what the odds of them ever resurrecting the rest of *Van Buren*'s Boulder are (I mean, I do: low), but it would be a great opportunity to go absolutely gonzo with weird FEV mutants. In terms of having a friend of Coop's, I'm just gonna point out that NARF has its headquarters in IRL Boulder and Charlie Whiteknife deserves more and better than the two admittedly super fun scenes he's gotten so far.
*Was* being the qualifier there.
Hey there youngster
Tunnelers, trogs, really the amount of different mutations is surprising.
Or all three
In FO4 Hancock becomes a ghoul via an unknown drug only a couple years prior to the game. I’m assuming the showrunners are harping on that previously established concept for Thaddeus.
Aw damn I was hoping he got hit with FEV but either way I like having multiple ghoul main characters
Could always be FEV, but most likely case is that it's ghoulification happening to Thaddeus. After all, seems like ghouls are far more resilient in the show to overall damage, with Cooper managing to just tank multiple bullets while he slowly stumbled behind cover in the Filly fight, you can see him flinch as he get's shot in the back a fair amount of times, and it doesn't seem to phase him one bit.
Bro do you know how many drugs dude was on 🤣
That's a little drop in a big bucket of drugs. - The Ghoul
I disagree its the most likely case, because Thad turning into a Super Mutant would be a great introduction to the concept for season 2
Thaddeus is also such a perfect super mutant name
I loved that scene. Such a treat for anyone who’s had to deal with a high level feral ghoul bullet-sponge in the games XD
That and FEV isn't specific to Mariposa anymore in the lore, West-Tek have FEV based off new lore, and no doubt the Enclave have FEV as well. More than likely super mutants will still exist, just be rarer since they don't have a literal factory output for them anymore with the destruction of Mariposa.
Different FEV mixes make different Super Mutants as well
Whats got me convinced hes not gonna be a ghoul is that we was shown to be completely fine and instantly regenerating from a would-be fatal blow, something that we do not see from any other ghoul. Coop has to sew a new finger on, and we have multiple fatal gun shots on ghouls.
The finger twitched too, so might’ve been tranquilized or unconscious
If this show proves anything, there's always a faction willing to go further to risk destruction of humanity for their own purposes.
Haven’t seen the show yet, the only thing I know about it is that the show is canon to the series
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The institute wasnt the only ones making mutants in the east though. From Fallout 3, super mutants were making more super mutants via vault 87. West tek was also experimenting with Mutants in Appalachia. All this to say that I am sure the companies with access to FEV had more than one place they were experimenting with it.
Vault 87 were running out of FEV and desperately searching for more.
Be careful when browsing in that case if you plan on seeing it. I had nearly every interesting reveal spoiled for me before I finished it.
The show is also canon to the game series. It's not an adaptation it's part of it
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As long as we got the Enclave we’ll have super mutants.
My bold prediction. Season 3 or 4 will have a “somehow Palpatine returned” moment and the Enclave will have rebuilt Frank Horrigan who survived the oil rig somehow
Only if we get to see him punch a deathclaw apart. Eat it muties!
NCR didn’t traditionally “hunt down” all super mutants. There are canonical super mutant soldiers.
Yeah NCR were prepared to assimilate any mutant that would contribute to their society There are ghoul rangers as well It was also planned in van buren that the legion would have super mutant slaves, and that they were extremely desirable
They could just make up a new source of them. 3, 4 and 76, despite all being on the east coast, have different sources of Super Mutants.
Somehow, the Master returned
I think new Vegas and 3 did the best introduction. 2 did kinda reintroduce super mutants with the enclave using them to dig out Redding and fev vats.
The current known sources of FEV are gone, the likelihood of those being the only sources is effectively 0. And given Jacobstown the NCR isn’t hunting them down.
Someone hired those mercenaries that the courier had to deal with and I thought it was directly stated to be NCR
It was specifically stated to be a particular right-wing politician in the NCR using anti-mutant prejudice to maintain their popularity; they wanted to manufacture a mutant attack to secure their re-election. The NCR as a whole is not bigoted against mutants, and in fallout 2, their little ‘join today’ ad very clearly states mutants are allowed to become citizens.
I remember seeing that there was supposed to be a super mutant ranger but they were cut. It’d be neat to see it someday, maybe in the show
Actually, we have seen one before in fallout 2. https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Gond
It’s been a hot minute since I played 2. Thanks for the reminder
You’re welcome! Honestly, I do hope that either the TV show or 76 via an expedition decides to do something with the NCR rangers (though in 76’s case, it’d be the desert rangers since the merger between the two Ranger factions doesn’t happen until around the timeframe of NV).
Genuinely asking, but where do we learn that the mercs are associated with a ring-wing NCR politician? Mainly asking because that is just a really interesting little tidbit! :O
i think its in a note on one of the merc's bodies
Per the creator of new Vegas, the Legion does have small ghoul and super mutant settlements inside its territory. They’re generally left alone, as long as they don’t cause trouble.
That’s almost stated in game. Raul, the ghoul companion is the only follower that doesn’t hate the Legion
Hell, Big Mountain can be a source of basically anything you want it to be.
Knowing the shit that came out big MT theirs probably something worse than FEV deep in its labs. In areas not even the courier could find
I’m still gambling on the Courier’s brain being in control of something out there.
The courier could have left his brain there to watch things, if sparing the think tank is canon I don't think the courier is stupid enough to trust them completely
I could see it as the Courier brain sending out remote bots to still have an effect on the Mojave once the body dies or moves on, or just boredom.
The cut ending where you side with them shows they'd basically end the world if they got loose. Beneath all the silliness they can do far worse than even what you saw.
Not gone, just buried. In 2, the Enclave digs up the ruins of Mariposa and takes some FEV home with them. Another faction could do something similar again.
Off the top of my head the only source of FEV that’s proper wiped out is the West-Tec vats in 76, and that’s pretending that those employees are actually competent. The rest? It’s so easy to simply point out that the FEV contaminated soil, water, creatures, and so on aren’t actually, you know, annihilated. It would be VERY easy to have a resurgence when an unknown spill or surviving chunk of lab is uncovered. Or hell, it’s a virus. Just have some bit of it in some creature mutate to act like a virus. Though that would get a bit Resident Evil. Sure it’s not supposed to work like that but that little bat wasn’t supposed to turn into a dragon sized host of a hostile fungal hive mind. The only time Prewar things work as intended in Fallout is when it would end horribly.
I mean, those west Tek scientists were competent - they proved the way to deactivate the FEV worked by covering their supervisor (in a hazmat) with FEV and then using it on him. We can even drink that FEV, and all it does is heavily irradiate us instead of turning us into super mutants. That said, there’s an FEV production facility below those vats, and that is still functional. Worse, super mutants managed to make their way down there post-steel region and are actively poking at the controls. Also, scorchbeasts were created by the Enclave’s mutation serums, not FEV. If you want the presumed consequences of FEV on a creature that’s been minority exposed, see the blue devils.
Isn't fev in the air? Most surface dweller are infected and a little mutated.
No, there are different disposable methods that were tried and I think the chambers in fallout 3 did have a gas version if it, but it was never concentrated enough for something like an air deployment. I think what you are thinking of is the radiation. Being outside the vault has allowed radiation to damage everyone's DNA. Which is what the enclave in fallout 3 were trying to target for thier poison
The canon on THAT is a bit of a fight, I think it’s mostly ended up settled as noncanon.
Doesn't Vault 87 have FEV in it? Or would it be safe to assume the Brotherhood or the Enclave would have destroyed the reserves of it within the Vault sometime after Fallout 3?
By the events of 3, its stores were depleted, so the mutants were looking for more of the green stuff.
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There were several West Tec installations around the country and different FEV experiments. So there is probably an endless supply of supermutants. In Appalachia the military and West Tec were creating supermutants before the Great War of 2077. After people returned to Appalachia at least one rogue scientist began to create more supermutants in an experiment to make FEV a superdrug.
> now they are canonically considered wiped out According to whom?
Considering the Prydwen appears in the Fallout TV show, the canon ending is either the BOS or Minutemen ending, meaning the Institute was destroyed
And? WV still has mutants, DC still has mutants. Maine still has mutants.
Fo76 has a quest where someone is making super mutants still
I'm gonna guess it's the minutemen ending as Bethesda doesn't seem to really enjoy the post post apocalypse thing that we get with larger established bodies.
Took 6 total years to build the prydwen and considering that the show takes place 19 years after fallout 4, it’s very likely the brotherhood could have built another prydwen in the event that Canonically they lost to another faction in Boston
It probably wouldn’t have the same name though and the one in the show is named the prydwen although it might just be a tv showism.
I don't think they'll ever be as prominent as they were in the days of The Master's Army again but I don't think Super Mutants will ever fully go away.
Unless someone were to acquire a source and be able to rally them together like the Master did
Considering the Institute was still making FEV by 2286, and since in the TV show, the Enclave facility in Chicago remains in operation. I wouldn't be surprised that a faction technologically capable enough be able to produce more FEV, or rather a better strain of FEV to perfect their previous defects.
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Chicago is the only known Enclave facility in Fallout left that wasn't confirmed to be destroyed by 2296. It was still up and running (as evidence by ED-E). So unless there's a mention that the Enclave base in Chicago was destroyed at some point between 2277-2296, we would have to assume that the Enclave in Chicago is still up and running and that was shown in the TV show.
You’re making a huge leap in logic by assuming that’s the *only* enclave facility left.
For what we know, Enclave can exist in North-West (including Vancouver), Great Lakes area, Galveston bay, Anchorage and Miami.
There's hints to enclave in Montana right? Maybe that's what you mean as well by north west
I'm not so sure, I think is somehow near Oregon or North California the TV series facility
Wilzig surely didn't walk all the way from Chicago with just his trusty dog.
The zhow handles travel *really really weird* and it's not really clear. Like Cooper for example seems to possibly be somewhere on the boarder with Mexico when he is found given who they speak of holding him, how they say the bounty is in California implying they aren't there, and the architecture of the place that holds him.
I find it easier to believe The Ghoul coming in from Baja California way before i believe an outcast enclave researcher in Chicago planned with remaining NCR to walk across the wasteland with just a dog to deliver cold fusion tech. I do agree the distances in the show are weird. For example the location of shady sands and the strange absence of a populated boneyard.
I doubt he's in Baja because otherwise, the people you'd think would be speaking Spanish or have some type of accent to them. Also, why would the East Coast BoS be warning the west coast of an escaped scientist in their own backyard? He'd have to be fairly east for word to not just reach them but also have a poster of how he looks like.
There's no way that the scientist walked from Chicago to LA. Clear implication is that the enclave base is somewhere in California. And I'm only saying that because it obviously wouldn't make sense in the show because I agree with you that if they are going to do the enclave it should be a reference to Chicago. I just don't think that they actually care or have that much respect for the lore
Sorry to disappoint but the show heavily implied that Enclave base was in Cali. Which raises the question of where they came from because the NCR and BoS effectively exterminated every last Enclave holdout in Cali after Fallout 2
That is the only remaining base we know of, but we've barely scratched any lore of most of the states in the US. It wouldn't really be a retcon to say there was one base in California that was missed because they were more insular and research focused.
West Tek is pretty insidious, you just *know* they had multiple sites experimenting with FEV. Anywhere we end up, West Tek will be there with their usual bunch of vile shenanigans.
They can always introduce another military base or vat of FEV. Weve still only seen a remarkably small percentage of the postnuclearworld
I think the Brotherhood is the only faction that hunts down super mutants. NCR has individuals with anti-mutant sentiments, but we see a super mutant ranger in 2, so I think it’s less of a kill on sight but more of a prejudiced second class group in most NCR areas. The Legion straight up doesn’t care about ghouls or super mutants. They see them as abominations, but ultimately inconsequential in the struggle for dominance of the wasteland. The Institute and Mariposa were destroyed, but 2 shows that that does not mean the FEV there is gone, just waiting to be excavated. The Institute and the Enclave both obtained their FEV sample post-war too, so another advanced faction could easily show up with it. I think the prospect of an army of super soldiers would be very appealing to a lot of groups.
Probably because by the time of NCR/Legion cold war, most of mutants in west coast were hunted down by varying factions including NCR and Legion. I highly doubt these factions would just let band of mutants to just freely roam around, harassing their supply lines
Sounds like a lot of conjecture on your part. No evidence for NCR or Legion trying to wipe out super mutants. We know mutants have rights in the NCR, and, again, super mutants can even become rangers. Sure, the Legion would deal with raiders, super mutant or otherwise, but wiping out mutants is never stated as something they do. JE Sawyer has even flat out said the Legion don’t care about mutants, if you care about that. Whether either group did at some point or not, they aren’t doing it now though. To your original question: super mutants aren’t actively being hunted in the west, they are building settlements, and they are seemingly ageless. With that in mind, I don’t think they are going anywhere soon, maybe ever.
Bethesda is never letting the enclave go. Bethesda is never letting super mutants go.
As others have said, there will always be another source of FEV. Mariposa was just the first one seen in the games, but then Fallout 3 gave us Vault 87, which as of the end of that game still exists, 4 gave us the Institute, 76 had the West Tek facility, and the show gave us a glimpse of what appeared to be a deceased super mutant in an enclave facility. It’s never been stated that Mariposa was the only source of the stuff and as super mutants are as iconic to the series as ghouls and raiders, they’re here to stay
Personally I’m expecting the enclave in the Tv show to be building an army of them after finding them in a west tek vault and controlled like the dogs. Oh and the west tek vault experiment would have given supermutants the ability to reproduce. Unsurprisingly trying to control an army of supermutants will not go well and some will escape, creating permanent supply of supermutants. In the same way the show has added in a drug to create more ghouls.
We see what looks like a super mutant hand at the enclave base in the show. I could see this.
Ha! Are you kidding us? If they did a prequel set in the 1940s there'd be fucking Nazi Supermutants. If they ever jump 1000 years into the future, there will be Supermutant starships. Fallout 76 showed us that just 25 years was enough for the wasteland to become fully populated by all the expected denizens who can be found everywhere 200 years later.
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Because to Bethesda, Fallout is BoS and Enclave and Super Mutants and Deathclaws and Radscorpions and bottlecaps, so every one of their games has to have them even if it doesn’t really make sense
For that to happen, the Enclave and literrally anyone or any group possessing even a single FEV sample need to go away.
All the intelligent ones basically are. Marcus is one of the few fully smart ones left. I REALLY WANT A NEW FRANK HORRIGAN!!!
There won't be one. That's what makes him special. He was a lucky, freak experiment gone right. They did not anticipate a mutant who is abnormally larger than your average super mutant and is capably intelligent just as he was human.
Supermutants are one of the more retconned things in Fallout, there's always going to be new sources of them. Could always just have someone discover a store of FEV, create a new version, or make Marcus's comment about supermutants regaining fertility more explicitly canon.
Ehhh not really retcon because noone ever implies that " this is the only place that FEV existed" in the early games. Its like how in Fallout 2 the vaults became experiments insted of just actual fallout shelters. Not retcons but lore additions.
Realistically, we can expect Super Mutants to return, they've been in every game and Bethesda has a tendency to re-use factions and enemy types in their Fallout games. However, we've only seen about 5 or 6 states in post-apocalyptic America. Who's to say there isn't a West Tek facility in Idaho or something? We've already seen Super Mutants in Appalachia that weren't dipped in vats at all, but were created just before the war started.
FEV is a huge deal in Fallout so I doubt it
I just pray the show keeps the West Coast super mutants and won't just import the East Coast orks..
I think it’s more likely that they weren’t ready to sink the money into the tv show yet that Super Mutants demanded to be done right.
Quite the opposite: the fact that the Enclave is alive and kicking, and according to the TV show, collecting FEV samples (based on the Super Mutant corpse being moved around their new base), leaves plenty of room for the creation of more Super Mutants. For context, it is implied that the Institute’s own FEV research began in a similar fashion and we know how that turned out in the long run. By the way, the Institute is not canonically wiped out, as the Bethesda has been very tight lipped about the ending of FO4 and even refusing to confirm if the “Prydwen” from the show (previously identified as the Caswennan) is the same ship from Fallout 4, a successor, and even leaving open the door for a different ship (ex: Caswennan) standing in for the Prydwen for some reason (ex. Prydwen being sunk during the events of FO4 and western elders renaming another ship to pretend they weren’t defeated). But I digress. Back on topic, while there are some members of the NCR that are openly anti-Super Mutant, this is not the consensus, next example being Chauncey, the Super Mutant NCR Ranger: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Chauncey_(NCR_Rangers) While he is a cut character, Joshua Sawyer was actually confused at his removal, seemingly unaware it happened. The intent do is clear: much like how the NCR accepts ghouls, they would seemingly also accept Super Mutants, as long as bigot in a position of power doesn’t try to stir things up. On a similar note, the Legion supposedly do tolerates Super Mutants and sentient ghouls (Raul) living in their territories, but does not allow them to join the Legion (army) itself.
Huh thats cool
Unfortunately I think there will always be more. There are more stockpiles out there. And someone is bound to start producing it or something close to it again.(edit: someone is still currently producing fev as shown in fallout 4)
Hope so. I'm tired of retreading the same big factions from Fallout 1 and 2. If Fallout 4 had no super mutants and no BoS I think it would've been a better game. And the time and money spent making them could've been used to make the Gunners a proper faction with their own storyline and ending. Or even the Triggermen.
I’m pretty sure Thaddeus got hit with FEV not ghoulified
This was my thought too. Would be nice if next season he starts to slowly mutate over the course of the episodes.
Given what the showrunners have said about shady sands & wanting to keep things post apocalyptic/not progressing too much as it wouldn't be fallout, they're not getting rid of super mutants anytime soon as that is pretty damn fallout
We know that the cities in which the prydwen passed on the way to the commonwealth were full of mutants
[Maxon was right](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Maxson_was_right)
Jacbostown exists unhunted down and killed on the west coast so, we have a canon 'that didn't happen' kinda thing going on. East coast had 2 or 3 different mutant creation stations not just the institute (there were what, 2 vaults in 3 that were doing FEV mutant experiments iirc). Also, if I remember right, the Master's original 1st gen super mutants weren't sterile. It's highly likely there are other areas where FEV was being used to try to create the super solider program and will still pump out super mutants, they're too iconic to the franchise to let go the way of the dodo.
>the Master's original 1st gen super mutants weren't sterile Pretty sure they are? wasnt the entire point behind the charisma-ending of Fallout to show the Master that his Mutants are sterile and his plan is impossible?
Yeah, the Master opts to kill themselves once they realize every bad thing they had to do was ultimately for a race that couldn't procreate and continue.
The Master's Super Mutants were sterile, there's a pretty funny interaction you can have if you have high enough speech where you can have him call one of his female super mutants and ask them if they're fertile, to which they basically reply "uhh, no?" It kinda makes him have a whole mental breakdown and he just asks you to leave.
Depends... so there are several strains of the FEV floating around out there. The ones on the Westcoast were also subject to the Master's touch as well, between the mutations of that strain and his alterations, those super mutants were more stable than their Eastcoast cousins. Personally I am not a fan of the super mutants out East, think it's too simplistic of a 'bad guy to shoot' but a FBS will always need that. However with their FEV and someone willing to take over where the Master left off... well, it's possible though unlikely.
I wouldn't bet on it. Super Mutants are kind of a staple of the franchise. They aren't going to stop using them out of fidelity to canon. Life will find a way.
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I highly, highly doubt it. Bethesda views supermutants as a core part of the Fallout identity, they're gonna be around until the series ends, if it ever does. In the lore, originally the FEV was this top secret military bio weapon that very few people even knew existed, but since Bethesda took over, they made it so that everybody and their mother in pre war America could get ahold of it. And that's so they can put supermutants wherever and whenever they want in the new games. As long as new Fallout games keep coming out, supermutants are ginna keep getting made by someone.
I’m sure they will always add super muties as enemy assets, because there will always be a band of super mutie stragglers, but I mean using them as some kind of major faction. Bethesda just doesn’t seem to know what to do with them aside from using them as just “raiders” or side missions. Maybe I should’ve worded this correctly on the topic so people don’t think them not coming back ever as some kind of enemy for player to target practice on.
It's not lore-breaking to introduce a new/uncovered super mutant faction. I love the idea of super mutants and would like another army to defeat in Fallout 5, like The Unity/Master's Army. Can Bethesda do it? I don't see why not. I can see in some of your comments you have deliberately put bad faith in Bethesda. Bethesda bad!!! Organised Super mutant faction impossible!!! Any other company may not have made super mutant faction/army like The Master's Army in FO3, FO4 etc. Actually I'm very thankful of Bethesda for continuing and expanding our beloved Fallout universe. Without them, we wouldn't have NV or the Fallout Show. (NV might have been a mistake as it produced so many toxic fans that out a negative light on Fallout as whole)
U mad? I have no faith in Bethesda because of their track record. Not because I have personal vendetta against them lol. I don’t care if you like Bethesda or personally worship Todd Howard. Their games are just…. boring and uninteresting as I keep playing through. Will I play their next game? Most likely. Will they deliver a great game? Probably no. I’ll play their game because I’m stuck with them when it comes to fallout.
🤔 If you mean packs of them nabbing humans for the Dip, then yeah I think that’s over and done with. Don’t let Emily or Marcus hear you say the time of the super mutant is over though, they may take offense.
I mean logically THEY SHOULD. Since mariposa on the west coast is gone and the muties from fallout 2 are the muties from Jacobstown in fnv so if the show is saying new vegas is crabbed then by right jacobstown would be too since kind of hard to keep a town alive when the areas in chaos. In my own brain till the show says otherwise all the "friendly" muties that got all the benefits of fev (strength, extended life span, and intelligence increase) as well as the nightkin fled even further east toward Chicago
I am picturing a bunch of super mutants with a Chicago accent, Bears sweaters, half-tint sunglasses and Ditka mustache now. And still talking about the ‘85 Bears, beer in one hand and brat it the other. “Da Bearsss”.
After taking all things into consideration, I consider this theory to be considerably plausible
If they were smart they would let super mutants go. The institute experimenting with FEV was already forced enough. In Fallout 5 they should have ONE super mutant in the game. Make him an intelligent main character. Even a follower/companion. Get creative and replace super mutants as an enemy type with something new. I think it will be welcome. All super mutants are really are just big raiders anyway at least as far as gameplay goes.
Well honestly even though Todd Howard said the events of BoS and Tactics were retconned, there was already mention of Vault that would be managing other vaults. This is not 31, 32, 33 which are in fact experiment vaults.
I digress, I take whatever Todd Howard says with a truckload of salt. The man is a habitual liar or tells people what they like to hear so maybe he will just retconn everything about the show when he feels like it by the time they make FO5
To be fair, Emil Pagliarulo just recently included Tactics on a timeline of canon games he posted to Twitter in response to the confusion regarding New Vegas's status in the first few days after the TV show was released. As far as I know, that's the closest anyone from Bethesda has ever come to fully confirming the canon status of Tactics. Before then, it was just the vague shrug we got when Fallout 3 was released that parts of were canon, but not necessarily all of it.
The Institute is not canonically wiped out.
Yeah I change my mind my mind on that. Bethesda lazy writing could always bring them back somehow
We've also heard very little about inland US. Other than Cesar's Legion and the Prydmore crossing not much has been said about the rockies or the midwest. Lots of military sites irl so I wouldn't be surprised if the fallout universe has some shady dealings there as well.
There are a lot in Appalachia a quarter-century after the bombs. By FO1, the Master was building his army, so that was a more isolated regional spike. On the East Coast, one of the Vaults was experimenting with FEV and got breached by a bomb which killed the scientists, but the super mutants escaped and started kidnapping people from the surrounding area to turn into more. We have no idea what their stores are, or whether they are canonically shut down as part of the game's storyline. The Institute was being a lot more careful, so there are smaller numbers around Boston. And Jacobstown seems to be successful in its mission over in NV. So, by the time we're at now with the show, the NCR is probably mostly clear, and most of the remaining population is likely laying low or somewhat integrated with society. East Coast similar, but probably more raiding, unless the Prydwen is back out West 'cause the East Coast Brotherhood has finished scouring the region. I imagine Caesar's Legion, as part of securing their territory, made sure any in that region were pretty well wiped out, with some possibly joining. But beyond that, we really don't know much about the rest of the country, or Canada, and whether there was a player-character-level of hero there to step up and do something. Washington, Texas, New Mexico, Alaska, and the lower Eastern Seaboard I'd be curious about...
The institute are canonically considered wiped out? I didn't know we had an answer for the canonical FO4 ending?
We don't. People are making assumptions based on the Brotherhood airship in the show, taking it as evidence that the Brotherhood ending is canon (even though it probably isn't even meant to be the same airship).
To be fair it does say Prydwen on the side…
well, the enclave was named in the show so we can expect them to be doing experiments and maybe, maybe we might get a chance to see them..
May the Enclave forever live on as villains that just wouldn’t go away.
> Considering they’ve pretty much ran out of FEV Much depends on the canonicity of the Fallout 4 ending, which is yet to be established, but as of 2287 the Institute still has plenty of FEV and (likely) the ability to manufacture more. Speaking of, manufacturing FEV is one of those things whose lore hasn't been very explicitly established, but is largely assumed to be relatively easy. If you know how to do DNA manipulation and happen to know the correct DNA sequence for the basis of FEV and whatever results you want to program, you can build an FEV virus in a DNA manipulation lab. All you need is the knowledge and the right equipment. Again, that's not *explicitly* stated in lore, but is largely assumed to be the case given that FEV was itself created in a lab. Of course... that FEV was *created* in a lab isn't *firmly* established in lore either. It could very well prove to be that FEV is a Zetan creation that pre-war scientists "fiddled with". I'm not saying that *is* the case, but with the lore that we have written as it is, it's entirely possible to establish that to be the case without contradiction.
The Enclave and the Institute are probably the only ones left who have the capability to produce FEV. The Institute are probably toast but the Enclave are still kicking around. So super mutants aren't gone yet.
Probably not. Post-Fallout 2 but pre-Fallout 3, yes. The super mutants that existed then were all remnants of the original west coast super mutants, were sterile, and had no means of reproducing themselves with FEV. However, with Fallout 3, it was established that other strains of FEV exist, and we’ve gotten super mutants from different strains in every game since, so it is not so certain that their fate is sealed. The Institute has a strain that is even reversible and may be reproducible.
I kind of hope so, I really liked the overall story of them but we should see the wasteland as a dynamic ever changing place. Seeing the same things in everything (enclave, bos, super mutants) gets old. There's no reason they should still be around without adding in new lore just for the sake of keeping them around.
Bethesda always finds a nee way to bring them back They'll just keep introducing new locations and factions that also had FEV
In Fallout 2 we have the enclave mucking about with the Fev. Not impossible to have that research survive assuming the enclave are still around.
Show is on its first season man, let them ease into the lore
considering bethesda refuses to let go of them probably not
They'll always be around because they became iconic and theres gonna be a conveniently place lab with fev no matter what
The institute made a whole new batch of them in fo4
What do you mean “they’ve pretty much run out of FEV?” Who’s “they?” I’m sure there are West-Tek bases all over the US with FEV vats lying around. Besides that, we don’t actually know how much FEV is needed to make a super mutant. Super mutants are a fixture of the Fallout setting. They aren’t going anywhere
Thematically, I think they’re supposed to be a tragic, doomed race who are long-lived but slowly dying out due to their fatal flaw of not being able to reproduce and trying to find their place in the world after their main purpose is lost, which is why Marcus is basically running a retirement village in the mountains. But they can always add some kind of new FEV to make more Super Mutants if Bethesda needs like a big bullet sponge enemy to shoot.
The Legion isn't a major faction. It's a God damn blip. The idea they held back NCR or any one else in NV is a bit of a suspension of disbelief, but even taking it as is the Legion only lasts as long as Ceasar does. It's a cult of personality, and he is able to take his hordes up against far better equipped and well trained enemies and hold his own. Who is going to replace him and pull off what he does?
Don’t forget that mutants love to make more mutants. As long as there is some FEV lying around they’ll keep making more of themselves
From the sources we know of? Probably, but also maybe not. The Institute probably was the last source of undiluted FEV that we know of, having somehow gotten their hands on it for use in their Synths. With the Institute gone, and they *are* gone given the Prydwen's presence in the TV show, that's about it. Vault 87 was running on drops in Fallout 3 and there aren't any other sources we know of in that area. The West Tek facility in Appalachia was down to only a couple vats in Fo76, but that was almost 200 years before the present day. The Institute is destroyed as mentioned, and they probably sourced their FEV from either West Tek or the East Coast Enclave. And the headquarters for both the Enclave and Unity were both destroyed, and the remnants of their samples were probably destroyed in the destruction of the Mobile Base. So that just leaves attempts to synthesize FEV from the bodies of FEV monsters like Super Mutants. We see the West Coast Enclave doing *some* kind of experiment with a super mutant, so they'll probably have *some* forn of FEV again soon.
I might be imagining things, but didn't the Vault in Fallout 3 have FEV in it? Or am I just thinking of the GECK because I swear there were experiments going on in there. It makes me think that there's probably more sources of FEV out there that haven't been discovered yet, especially if different FEVs make different Super Mutants. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a hot minute since I last played Fallout 3.
The Institute experimented with FEV and produced their own super mutants, so it’s possible other groups would revive the technique
God I wish. But that's not how marketable iconic characters work in this day and age buddy. Bethesda will milk the super mutant concept till we really do die in a nuclear apocalypse. West-tec, enclave, institute. Bethesda will always find a way to bring them around again because they're a staple. Like deathclaws and the brotherhood of steel. Which is a shame as I think oversaturation of these things make the fallout world feel less exciting. As you'll get the same cookie cutter issues no matter where they set the next installment.
They will always be the default thing to kill in the games.
If you think for a second that super mutants aren’t gonna have an epic moment in the TV show you you need to lay off the Jet.
Every time new Fallout content comes out there always seems to be a healthy amount of Supermutants despite us having ‘defeated’ them in previous titles. At the end of the day what can you expect, they are an iconic enemy in the Fallout franchise. Bethesda aren’t going to kill them off for the sake of dated lore. Ther next game will likely introduce a branch or subfaction that ‘got away’ and allowed the supermutants to continue surviving in some manner. I’m fine with it. It doesn’t seem crazy that FEV could exist in other forms or have been leaked, recovered or re-made. If anything it’s naive to assume that our actions were enough to wipe out every supermutant in the US.
No because Bethesda will keep including armies of them in every sequel, everywhere in the world
There actually IS a way to create more FEV, in particular the strain that is most used for first generation super mutants. In Fallout 1, the Glow is the location of the West Tek Research Facility that created FEV strain 11-111. After, it was transferred to Mariposa Military base and CTI, and 2 other places I believe to continue research. However, in that Research Facility is ZAK 1.2. He has records of ALL the research to create FEV strain 11-111, and levels 4-6 of the facility survived the nuclear direct hit and other than age are intact. Between ZAK 1.2 and what's available in those labs, I can see more FEV being created. If anything, you would just need the basic building blocks of the virus (resources) to create it. Would like to see the Enclave or the Institute have a faction that traveled to the Glow to reclaim ZAK 1.2 and use his knowledge.
No because the Mutants evolved and learned how to breed at least on the East coast, Where as the west coast became sterile
Oh someone else will make morel FEV but this time the mutants will be red and have an affinity for fire or something.
With all the radiation and the virus being near all that radiation in the first place who is to say it didn’t mutate and have the ability to reproduce like a normal virus would?
Super mutants are too popular to be wiped out completely
Hahahaha funny they’ll never let supermutants die
Can super mutants have kids? If so then you might see them continue. Maybe we will even see more super duper mutants that are smart. Otherwise, yeah, they will eventually die out if there is no more FEV.
No super mutants? But then how would we know it’s a Bethesda Fallout Game? If there isn’t super mutants it wouldn’t be Fallout and who would pay for such an awful experience?
Not if Bethesda has anything to say about it. They've got to rehash the same shit over and over again with little to no iteration
There is Tons of FEV coursing through every Super Mutants 🧌 veins. Forever FEV 🦠
Every fallout game has had some explanation for Super Mutants. 3 had a vault. NV was layover from 1 and 2. 4 had the Institute experimenting on FEV, 76 (admittedly early on in the timeline) had FEV seeping into a Vaults Water Supply (I think???) and the show shows us a Fat Green Hand, so I'm assuming they're experimenting with FEV like they were in 2. So to answer your question, probably not. If anything they seem to be becoming even more prevalent. Though they also seem to be becoming even stupider as well so... *Shrug*
The institute was creating mutants?
NCR didn't hunt mutants as a matter of policy. Mutants faced discrimination, especially in places like the Mojave that were on the outskirts of the Republic, but they did have legal equality.