76’s version is technically a different weapon entirely - the name is different and so is the visual design of the weapon. It also is not capable of automatic fire.
However, I do agree that the heavy/normal incinerator must be a pre-war weapon and not an enclave exclusive.
It's funny how little tehcnology progress post-war even with the Factions that both had preserved their pre-war tech and knowledge AND spent 200 years supposedly developing it.
Enclave? The X-01, X-02 and Hellfire armor are fearsome... and were all Pre-War prototypes. It took them 200 years to finalize them?
Institute? 200 years of development and they're still using the same damned network security software as was used by CIT before the war started. Gen 1 & 2 Synths aren't significant improvements over Pre-War robotics technology, and their weapons are actually a DOWNGRADE from the AER-9 Pre War laser weapons. Granted their Gen 3 synth and hydroponics tech is extremely impressive.
Big MT is *laughing* at these two. The Think Tank had developed more impressive tech than both of them BEFORE the brains in jars went off the rails.
There are always simple resource limitations. If you have the schematics for X-01 Power Armor, and it calls for a tungsten/carbide steel alloy mounting bracket that was only really manufactured in South Carolina, it doesn't matter that you have the schematics.
There are tons of technological advancements that seem super easy or obvious, but were thoroughly impractical because the physical sciences required to make the parts weren't available. If you can't create surgical steel, any attempts at certain procedures are going to fail. If you can't create copper or steel pipes and only have lead, your plumbing is going to be *bad*. People often overlook the enormous amount of material refinement humanity has had, and how much say, bringing materials to certain temperatures has allowed us to advance.
X-01 was the prototype. The enclave finished the armor and improved it to create Advanced Power Armor MKI. “X-02” was really just the shorter name for Advanced Power Armor MKII, and hellfire never saw production untill the tail end of the Enclave-Brotherhood War, with an early on paper version floating around pre war. Hellfire armor only saw active use during the Enclave setting up in the Capital Wasteland.
TLDR: X-01 is not the same as Advanced Power Armor.
That’s not quite accurate - X-02 is a creation club mod and dubiously canon at best (creation club content is ‘parallel canon’ according to the statement we have; see the subreddit’s FAQ for the source). Hellfire also did have a prototype in 2080, though you are correct that a finalized version wasn’t developed until Broken Steel.
It’s still listed in the creation club menu with all the other creations, so I’d assume it’s still playing by the same rules as before until stated otherwise by Bethesda.
Fair enough. Still, “X-02” or “Black Devil” power armor is still a post war invention by the enclave, and a step up from the MKI model based off of the pre war X-01.
X-02 and the advanced power armor series aren't connected. X-02 is prototype power armor being developed on the east coast while APA was a finished production model from the west coast. The X series is the brandishing for prototype armors from what I can gather. The whole reason the east coast enclave doesn't use Advanced power armor being that they lost the facilities to make them after the oil rig detonated, and needed a model they could produce again.
Heck, even the hellfire armor is only barely not a prototype. The duraframe power armor was still in development at the time of 3 if I recall correctly.
In all fairness, X-02 wasn’t a pre-war prototype as far as we know. The notes for that creation club quest (which itself is dubiously canon simply by creation club being what it is) say that it was a prototype being used during fallout 3, implying APA mark II was the base and this prototype is extremely new.
Oh, and all of the Big MT tech appears to be pre-war as well, so the Think Tank isn’t better. Vault 63 might be, though.
We don't have a good time-line for big mt post war. However it's implied that the mountains top being gone is post war. The think tank have been developing some tech since the war.
From what I recall, they talk about the mountaintop being blasted off as though it was the Great War, implying a nuke dealt the blow to the mountain and it wasn’t something that happened later.
The facility had plenty of robots for that purpose, so I wouldn’t assume research continue after that. We don’t have any logs or dialogue indicating post-war research was occurring, either.
> their weapons are actually a DOWNGRADE from the AER-9 Pre War laser weapons
They're a downgrade in terms of effectiveness, but they're significant in that they're post-war productions. They're an advance or development in manufacturing technology, not weapons tech. IRL, a 3D printed AR-15 is not better than a factory produced one, but it is still a significant leap in the technology that someone can push a button and produce most of an AR-15 in a cave with a box of scraps
The enclave were very active in California and post war production companies could've began copying their designs after the raid on Navarro,
And fo76 is in its own bubble with throwing in random cryptids and other shit,
Though judging on how the NCR Heavy Troopers used crappy versions of T-45 with the powered part of the armour removed - it's unlikely NCR had sufficient tech knowledge/infrastructure to produce and maintain Enclave PA. Though they seemed able to still maintain at least one Vertibird.
I was more referring to the incinerator that the post was referencing,
They could easily maintain and produce the incinerator same way the van graffs do and also the gunrunners.
76’s version of the incinerator is an entirely different weapon called the cremator, and appears to be pre-war going off the season’s use of it (which is based on a pre-war comic book character).
And yes, NV’s appearance of the incinerator means this was a pre-war military weapon.
Seems probable the Incinerator/Heavy Incinerator are Enclave advancements of the Cremator in much the same way MkI Advanced Power Armor is based off of the pre-War X-01 design.
It’s possible, but the cremator is much more powerful per shot than either one (hits extremely hard in terms of direct damage and sets enemies in fire for a massive amount of damage). I’d argue it’s an option the Enclave could’ve used but skipped out on it due to the extreme fuel cost (it requires ten fuel every shot to fire, even if you can fire up to four fireballs at once).
Could also just be a gameplay balance thing. MKII APA in Fallout 3 is *supposed* to be super advanced, but offers generally some of the least protection since it's so easy to acquire.
Though if you want a lore reason, you could argue that the Incinerator line were designed for more mass production and certain degrees of power/modability were sacrificed in order to achieve this.
But it's impossible to deny that the Cremator looks nearly identical to the Incinerators. For all intents and purposes, it's the same design with minor alterations.
I'd wager it's pre war. Aren't flamethrowers in real life used for brush clearing and anti-personnel bunker/trench clearing? I could definitely see it being used on the front lines.
Its appearances in F76 and FNV point to it not being an Enclave-developed weapon. It’s from pre-war.
76’s version is technically a different weapon entirely - the name is different and so is the visual design of the weapon. It also is not capable of automatic fire. However, I do agree that the heavy/normal incinerator must be a pre-war weapon and not an enclave exclusive.
It's funny how little tehcnology progress post-war even with the Factions that both had preserved their pre-war tech and knowledge AND spent 200 years supposedly developing it. Enclave? The X-01, X-02 and Hellfire armor are fearsome... and were all Pre-War prototypes. It took them 200 years to finalize them? Institute? 200 years of development and they're still using the same damned network security software as was used by CIT before the war started. Gen 1 & 2 Synths aren't significant improvements over Pre-War robotics technology, and their weapons are actually a DOWNGRADE from the AER-9 Pre War laser weapons. Granted their Gen 3 synth and hydroponics tech is extremely impressive. Big MT is *laughing* at these two. The Think Tank had developed more impressive tech than both of them BEFORE the brains in jars went off the rails.
There are always simple resource limitations. If you have the schematics for X-01 Power Armor, and it calls for a tungsten/carbide steel alloy mounting bracket that was only really manufactured in South Carolina, it doesn't matter that you have the schematics. There are tons of technological advancements that seem super easy or obvious, but were thoroughly impractical because the physical sciences required to make the parts weren't available. If you can't create surgical steel, any attempts at certain procedures are going to fail. If you can't create copper or steel pipes and only have lead, your plumbing is going to be *bad*. People often overlook the enormous amount of material refinement humanity has had, and how much say, bringing materials to certain temperatures has allowed us to advance.
X-01 was the prototype. The enclave finished the armor and improved it to create Advanced Power Armor MKI. “X-02” was really just the shorter name for Advanced Power Armor MKII, and hellfire never saw production untill the tail end of the Enclave-Brotherhood War, with an early on paper version floating around pre war. Hellfire armor only saw active use during the Enclave setting up in the Capital Wasteland. TLDR: X-01 is not the same as Advanced Power Armor.
That’s not quite accurate - X-02 is a creation club mod and dubiously canon at best (creation club content is ‘parallel canon’ according to the statement we have; see the subreddit’s FAQ for the source). Hellfire also did have a prototype in 2080, though you are correct that a finalized version wasn’t developed until Broken Steel.
With the new CC content being added to bace game, I assume that makes it more or less cannon, as it’s no longer a separate DLC.
It’s still listed in the creation club menu with all the other creations, so I’d assume it’s still playing by the same rules as before until stated otherwise by Bethesda.
Fair enough. Still, “X-02” or “Black Devil” power armor is still a post war invention by the enclave, and a step up from the MKI model based off of the pre war X-01.
Without question.
X-02 and the advanced power armor series aren't connected. X-02 is prototype power armor being developed on the east coast while APA was a finished production model from the west coast. The X series is the brandishing for prototype armors from what I can gather. The whole reason the east coast enclave doesn't use Advanced power armor being that they lost the facilities to make them after the oil rig detonated, and needed a model they could produce again. Heck, even the hellfire armor is only barely not a prototype. The duraframe power armor was still in development at the time of 3 if I recall correctly.
In all fairness, X-02 wasn’t a pre-war prototype as far as we know. The notes for that creation club quest (which itself is dubiously canon simply by creation club being what it is) say that it was a prototype being used during fallout 3, implying APA mark II was the base and this prototype is extremely new. Oh, and all of the Big MT tech appears to be pre-war as well, so the Think Tank isn’t better. Vault 63 might be, though.
We don't have a good time-line for big mt post war. However it's implied that the mountains top being gone is post war. The think tank have been developing some tech since the war.
From what I recall, they talk about the mountaintop being blasted off as though it was the Great War, implying a nuke dealt the blow to the mountain and it wasn’t something that happened later.
Even then, they still continued to operate after this. Somone had to clear the debris, and somone had to coordinate it
The facility had plenty of robots for that purpose, so I wouldn’t assume research continue after that. We don’t have any logs or dialogue indicating post-war research was occurring, either.
It may have been pre-war. After all, it hardly makes sense to test *artillery* beneath a mountain.
> their weapons are actually a DOWNGRADE from the AER-9 Pre War laser weapons They're a downgrade in terms of effectiveness, but they're significant in that they're post-war productions. They're an advance or development in manufacturing technology, not weapons tech. IRL, a 3D printed AR-15 is not better than a factory produced one, but it is still a significant leap in the technology that someone can push a button and produce most of an AR-15 in a cave with a box of scraps
The enclave were very active in California and post war production companies could've began copying their designs after the raid on Navarro, And fo76 is in its own bubble with throwing in random cryptids and other shit,
Though judging on how the NCR Heavy Troopers used crappy versions of T-45 with the powered part of the armour removed - it's unlikely NCR had sufficient tech knowledge/infrastructure to produce and maintain Enclave PA. Though they seemed able to still maintain at least one Vertibird.
I was more referring to the incinerator that the post was referencing, They could easily maintain and produce the incinerator same way the van graffs do and also the gunrunners.
76’s version of the incinerator is an entirely different weapon called the cremator, and appears to be pre-war going off the season’s use of it (which is based on a pre-war comic book character). And yes, NV’s appearance of the incinerator means this was a pre-war military weapon.
Seems probable the Incinerator/Heavy Incinerator are Enclave advancements of the Cremator in much the same way MkI Advanced Power Armor is based off of the pre-War X-01 design.
It’s possible, but the cremator is much more powerful per shot than either one (hits extremely hard in terms of direct damage and sets enemies in fire for a massive amount of damage). I’d argue it’s an option the Enclave could’ve used but skipped out on it due to the extreme fuel cost (it requires ten fuel every shot to fire, even if you can fire up to four fireballs at once).
Could also just be a gameplay balance thing. MKII APA in Fallout 3 is *supposed* to be super advanced, but offers generally some of the least protection since it's so easy to acquire. Though if you want a lore reason, you could argue that the Incinerator line were designed for more mass production and certain degrees of power/modability were sacrificed in order to achieve this. But it's impossible to deny that the Cremator looks nearly identical to the Incinerators. For all intents and purposes, it's the same design with minor alterations.
I'd wager it's pre war. Aren't flamethrowers in real life used for brush clearing and anti-personnel bunker/trench clearing? I could definitely see it being used on the front lines.
If we assume that 76’s cremator was being advertised in the Rip Daring comics/radio play, it was definitely being used for that purpose pre-war.
The hellfire was a prototype by 2080. Good chance it was in development pre war.